What do you think of Bravo for my mare?

[faluut42]

Here is my mare. She is a TB. I havent taken her to her inspection but am planning on taking her GOV.

AHS inspection in 1997.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o30/faluut42/Our%20Shadow%20xx/Image002.jpg

Shes underweight in these and I am currently putting weight on her.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o30/faluut42/Our%20Shadow%20xx/March152008048-1.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o30/faluut42/Our%20Shadow%20xx/March152008054.jpg

I am planning on breeding her to Bravo. http://hiddenvalleyfarms.net/bravo.html

What do you think? Anything reasons you wouldnt bred her to him? Be as honest as possible, nothing you say is going to hurt my feelings.

[okggo]

Honestly, I loff Bravo...but if it were me, with that mare, and I wanted to go for those line, I would breed to his sire, Bugatti. The reason I say that is b/c he has enough foal crops on the ground to show where he is pre-potent and stamps his offspring. I know your mare needs groceries, but I'm not crazy about her shoulder/neck and would look for a sire known to "fix" this. From what I have seen of Bugatti's crosses, he will improve this.

JMHO, and Bravo x her may be amazingly perfect, but to narrow the crap shoot odds for her I'd be looking for a proven sire.

[STF]

I too like Bravo alot.
I got a video and was very impressed with him. He has a super elastic body and good power movement. Strong topline and overall strong structure.
He is also on my list for the future. I really like him.

[clint]

Just a thought, but since getting a TB mare approved AHS isn't easy, why would you want to breed to other than an AHS stallion? I'm not sure what your goals are, but it is expensive to inspect mares, and since she has that approval, and there are many very nice AHS stallions, why pay for an additional approve to breed to a stallion with no offspring undersaddle? Bugatti is very nice, or another thought is Pablo, who is versatile and sires outstanding offspring out of a variety of mares. No offense meant against Bravo; I'm sure he is lovely and has a nice first crop on the ground.

[EquineLVR]

What are you breeding for?? Dressage, Hunters, Jumpers?? That would help determine which way to go..

I also love Pablo as a great all-arounder and would really improve on the mare.. She may look quite different with more groceries..

[Bitless Rider]

Having had the privilege to personally handle Bravo I would like to submit this statement:
Bravo is an incredible being, the result of a long line of proven horses. Carefully bred, wisely handled. He is sensitive, extremely personable, very intelligent, critical of those people that interact with him, kind, of royal stance and attitude. I interacted with this stallion in an enclosure that immediately adjoined with a young stallion close by on one side and the broodmare band on the other. He was at liberty, in tune to my body signals, responsive, easily directed, respectful and athletic. He is elegant, powerful, patient and modest. His physique is of good carrying ability, and he shows no signs of stress while being handled. I would venture to guess that this fine stallion could achieve the highest form of schooling with little problem. At the conclusion of our three short sessions (@20-25 minutes each) that I was with him I could lead this stallion anywhere in his large, naturally hilly terrain turnout with a simple light rope draped around his neck. It was a memory that I shall cherish in my old age!
I am besotted by him and I anxiously await the birth of his foal out of the mare Faunja, hoping to call it my own.

[Blacktree]

Bravo is super nice - I say go for it! :)

[braunjomomma]

Hello my name is Tiffany Martell and i actually have a Bravo baby named Braunjo or bubba as me and my daughter call him. I highly suggest Bravo as a stud he himself is amaing not to mention his offspring come out the best!!! I bought my colt when he was only four months in the belly and Bravo had no proven offspring yet so i was very nervous!!! Of course i was excited as well, then he was born and i was in awww and stunned at how gorgeous and correct he was and still is!! he is now a yearling and still at the moment a stallion. He is not only capibale of what i want to do with him, which is eventing but he is an amaing family horse as well my daughter who is Three mind you lays and plays with him on a regular basis she can walk him to and from the arena by herself , i kid you not it still amazes me to this day!! Bravo is an amazing stud and produces amaing offspring as well and Chris Misita is someone i adore as not only a breeder, but as a friend i got out of this experience as well!! if not for Chris i would never have this amaing horse i literally never dreamed of!!! i am going to attach a picture of my daughter and Braunjo for you to gander at and like i said keep in mind he is a yearling stallion, and she is a ADHD three year old girl! well i cant attach a picture so here is my email and let me know if you would like to see the pictures?! luvurhrs176@yahoo.com

[Oakstable]

I have to agree with Clint.

Approvals are very expensive and since the mare is already approved AHS, you can reduce your overhead by staying with an AHS stallion.

Also, an AHS approval of a TB mare is prestigious.

This is nothing against Bravo, he is very nice and the owner is offering a great price incentive.

OP needs to pencil out what it would take next year to haul the mare and foal to an inspection (gas, lodging, etc.), hire handlers, and pay for both the inspection of the mare and foal. You could be looking at $600 and up just off the top of my head.

I would contact the owners of some of the newer AHS approved stallions and see if they would give you a price incentive. They need babies on the ground too.

Or go into the Wanted forum in E-warmbloods and see if anyone has a breeding to an AHS stallion that they want to sell. (A friend of mine has a breeding and she might be willing to sell it. She retired the mare she bought it for.)

[Home Again Farm]

Ditto clint and Oakstable. I'd go for an AHS stallion with proven record. If the mare has had previous foals and you know what they are like, that would be more very useful information. Bravo is a lovely boy, but, if I was breeding your mare, I'd be looking for a well proven stallion within the AHS stallion book.

[Oakstable]

OP, you have the mare listed for lease in e-warmbloods because of tight money.

What a pickle.

Whatever you decide, be sure to go with a stallion with really good semen or you will be spending a lot of extra money on the vet.

[goodmorning]

Are people suggesting to look for an AHS stallion because they believe Bravo might not be the best match, or because their preferred registry is AHS?

Bravo is quite lovely, and the incentive to get additional foals on the ground is great. I think Black Tie, from Triad Farm, is also providing a great incentive, it might be worth it to give her a call or e-mail to see if you can work something out.

[spacely]

OP, you have the mare listed for lease in e-warmbloods because of tight money.

What a pickle.

Whatever you decide, be sure to go with a stallion with really good semen or you will be spending a lot of extra money on the vet.

Bravo has also recent been offered at a significantly reduced stud fee - $350, so perhaps money is what's driving the decision. Nothing against either horse, they are both lovely, but it makes me wonder.:confused:

[Hillside H Ranch]

Are people suggesting to look for an AHS stallion because they believe Bravo might not be the best match, or because their preferred registry is AHS?

Bravo is quite lovely, and the incentive to get additional foals on the ground is great. I think Black Tie, from Triad Farm, is also providing a great incentive, it might be worth it to give her a call or e-mail to see if you can work something out.

I think people are trying to save the OP some money and hassle. The mare is already approved AHS, so it makes sense to go with a stallion that is already with that registry. If money is indeed an issue here, then saving the price of inspection fees and travel costs may help (although Bravo's fee may be hard to beat).
.

[Oakstable]

New breeders don't always understand the costs of registering a foal. Some registeries do not require inspecting the foal if the mare and stallion have been approved. The AHS is one of those. So no one is pushing the AHS over the other registeries, but OP has indicated money is an issue.

Bravo is available at a great deal now. But there will be added expense in order to get the mare looked at, along with her foal, in 2009. If that's okay with the OP, go for it.

This TB mare could be bred to a Dutch stallion without having her inspected. That's another option.

In summary, the stud fee (high or low) is the smallest expense in the breeding game.

[Mini Me]

I'm sorry but I really get tired of the "my" breed is better than your's garbage. Oldenburgs have been around for a long time and many of the AHS stallions are approved Oldenburg, as well. And, vice versus as well. Neither is BETTER and neither is more prestigious than the other. Riders really don't care what brand is on their horse's ass, so long as the darn thing can perform. There are considerably MORE inspections throughout the country for Oldenburgs making getting to an inspection considerably easier too. The costs that Oakstable quoted, other than a one time inspection for the mare, are going to be the same regardless of which registry the OP takes her mare and foal.

Bravo is a lovely stallion. Granted he doesn't have many kids out there representing him yet, but I suspect that's one of the reasons his owner is offering him at a discounted rate. For crying out loud, if everyone breeds to the same stallion and doesn't give the new kids on the block even a passing consideration, there's no way that we're going to expand our breeding base here. I can think of several stallions out there that no one even gave a second look at and once their kids started hitting the ground breeders started sitting up and taking notice.

Bugatti is gorgeous. His stud fee isn't. Bravo also has Gauguin de Lully in his pedigree which offers something that Bugatti doesn't have.

If it were me, I'd say GO FOR IT!!! Besides, rumor has it that the owner is absolutely tops to work with. That counts for a LOT in my book.

Sarah Meacham

[STF]

To the OP -
Go for what is the best financially for you and what is easier for you.

Bravo has a super pedigree, IMO. Most have NO idea of his dam line, so let me essssplain some, not that it matter to most, but the Swedish lines are VUUURY nice and proven!

Gauguin de Lully (born Switzerland, but approved Swedish in 89) was a multi champion at the top levels. Christine Stuckelberger and Gauguin have a long list of top international level accomplishments, including the team silver and individual broze at the 86 Olympics. Do a search on him, he was superb!!

Gauguin (love animal, IMO) passed on his ability to many, one was including Emily Roberston daughter, Heather who took her Gaugiun to Edward Gal to train for a long period of time. You dont take just oridinary horses across the big pond to train with top professionals. LOL This is heather with tons of pics of Maguin, who himself looks much like Gauguin. (Look her up, goggle her she has a website). Heather also short listed for the Canadian team with him as well on this super horse.

There is also Gauguin du Cheval who did very well in the ring and now from a recent email I got from his owner, his babies are doing well too.

There are MANY more GdC offspring, google them if interested.

Chagall his sire is ultimate proven with many approved stallions that also proved their abilties as well. Chapman was one, who himself has a name for himself. Both have very decent BLUP #'s.

Iran (also the sire of the reknown Napeleon who sired those of Vivaldi, Amiral, Gazpon, etc) who himself proved himself high in the BLUP stastics.

Then we have Gaspari!! *sigh* Gaspari competed in the 1960-64 Olympics with Hans Wikne and then went on to win the individual gold the later placings later in life of the 2nd placings at the World Championships. Wolfgang Niggli himself favored this line and was noted saying so. Gaspri had several approved sons under his name, all proven to upper levels, most to FEI (if not all, I have to double check).
Then we have Ideal by Inschallah which most should know so I wont go there.

And the sire, Bugatti.... Bugatti with the Bergamon/Rubinstein/Donnerhall.... no need to go on.

Bravo bloodlines are very nice and many yrs of proven upper level preformance. Very much worth the "risk" mostly at a $350 stud fee the owner is offering! :lol: That alone offsets what she needs to get a mare approved somewhere else.

Anyway, Bravo is nice and bloodlines are well proven. No need for anyone to try to give him backhanded compliments ;)

[STF]

Bravo has also recent been offered at a significantly reduced stud fee - $350, so perhaps money is what's driving the decision. Nothing against either horse, they are both lovely, but it makes me wonder.:confused:


Stacey, Chris is offering him lower to help the economy. Nothing wrong with the stallion at all. Same thing as Kathy St. Martin offering her stallion for 350, etc. Nothing wrong there either I dont think. Both just see the economy and feeling the "suck of it!" :(

[STF]

And to the OP -
If I can still beat Chris up enough to go get Bravo approved SWANA, then the inspection issue will be limited as they dont require inspection for papers and you can take your offspring in at anytime for ratings. So.......... just let me kick Chris a tad more.... ;)

[clint]

Mini Me, my post has nothing to do with registry wars. If a mare is already approved in a warmblood registry why go to another one if you can get a good stallion in the one you are in? If you add in the cost of gas, plus the cost of inspection, plus the cost of mare registration, plus owner dues, it adds up to probably $500-$600, on top of the studfee. Now it is up to a thousand, and the mare isn't bred yet. Foal inspection fees are the same, whether they get a brand or not. That is a wash. Also to be considered is that this mare is now 16 and underweight. Will she get in a main mare book? Who knows? If the foal is for resale, that can make a difference. As Oakstable said, the studfee is the smallest amount of this game.

[Oakstable]

Ahhhh, since the OP has the mare offered for a lease for money reasons, and in another forum she is asking how to put weight on said mare, some of us old breeding geezers are just trying to help out with information so she can make a decision.

There are no registry wars going on here, MIni Me.

[Oakstable]

Clint pointed out age is a factor.

I had a TB mare who was inspected by the Dutch and was rated #5 in the US Best of the Best list. Some years later I took the same mare to OldNA and she did not get a premium.

Age made THAT difference.

When someone goes into public forums and asks for advice, people respond, trying to be helpful.

[misita]

Thank you STF for the great history on Bravo's dam side. Everybody know's the sire (Bugatti Hilltop/Bergamon/Rubenstein/Donnerhall) side.

Wow, Faluut 42, I'm really honored that you are considering breeding your mare to Bravo. Your mare is exactly the kind I am hoping will breed to my stallion as I think the resulting foal will help to prove Bravo as a worthy sire. She is lovely and I have no doubt, would produce a quality foal by Bravo.

I am somewhat disappointed by the comments here with regards to , what appears to be the only reason to pass on Bravo, is because the OP would have to have the mare inspected Oldenburg. Sure there are many stallions out there that have more established credentials than Bravo! He's only 4 years old! My intent of offering a lower breeding fee is an incentive to breeders such a faluut42 to bring their nice mares to my stallion in order to help show what kind of foals he can produce. Bravo has just begun his breeding and competition career and I have high hopes of him making all of his ancestors proud!

I certainly understand why mare owners choose more established stallions. There's a record of what they do and hopefully what they have bred. Newbie stallions have to offer extra incentives and promotions in order to entice mare owners to give our boys a try. If everyone chooses to breed to only established stallions, it's going to be difficult for any new stallion to prove his worth. I know that breeding is expensive, but I would like to think that breeders would dismiss a stallion as a possible candidate because he's not appropriate for their mare, not because he doesn't have the same registry approval.

Now I have 2 mares who need to deliver their babies sometime today, and I know they're waiting for me.:) Faunja by First Class and Wind in the Willows/Walter Scott/Sender are both delivering Bravo babies tonight!
So Hopefully tonight, he'll have 8 babies on the ground.:winkgrin:

[Equine Reproduction]

Now I have 2 mares who need to deliver their babies sometime today, and I know they're waiting for me.:) Faunja by First Class and Wind in the Willows/Walter Scott/Sender are both delivering Bravo babies tonight!

Boy are YOU an optimist! :lol:!! Mare "is" a four letter word!

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[Oakstable]

Misita,
The OP has made it clear money is a problem. This has nothing to do with Oldenburg vs. Hanoverian.

This has nothing to do with your stallion's merits.

The OP said MONEY is tight, and some of us are laying out the expenses to come beyond the stud fee.

Bravo is a lovely stallion and if I had a mare in any of his registeries, I'd give him serious consideration.

[incahoots]

If money is a big problem......You may have a difficult battle with a 16 year old, underweight mare. Like some said...the stud fee is the very least of the expenses. I have three, young mares in excellent weight and have only one in foal on the first cycle. Figure at least $1000 per try. If you are having trouble (and it is no shame to be financially challenged in this economy right now) you may be thinking you can get the mare in foal and sell her. This is not happening right now. Do not breed this mare thinking that it will help to sell her. It probably won't. Breed her to the best stallion you can afford that is proven to produce nice horses with TB's. It is just so expensive to do the actual breeding part that it never makes sense to choose a stallion based on his low fee. I saw Bravo at his inspection as a weanling and I think he is great. Always choose the stallion that will best compliment the mare.

[misita]

The OP asked for your honest opinion of her mare and Bravo as a match. If she chooses to go with another stallion, that's fine with me. I want her to have the best match for her mare as possible. If she chooses not to breed for financial reasons, that's also okay. I do agree that breeding the mare thinking it will make her more marketable would be a wrong choice.

So here's the couple side by side. What do you think of Bravo and this TB mare? Maybe the evaluation will help faluut42 pick a different type of stallion, or maybe one with differnet strengths and weaknesses.

Bravo is almost 3 in this photo. I haven't gotten new conformation shots now that he's 4, as of May 24th. I need to do that soon. A year is a long time in a young stallion's life.

$350 is a screaming steal for a stallion of Bravo's quality and bloodlines. There's nothing wrong with him. He's going to have to start a career in earnest next year and I'm hoping to only offer him with frozen semen. Kathy St. Martin has frozen him and we're still waiting to see the results with a pregnancy. So THIS year, I need to get some nice babies on the ground because he may not be able to breed much next year.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I thnk he would be a lovely choice.

[faluut42]

I am tight on money at the moment. Thats why I am trying to lease her out. Since no one is interested, and Bravos stud fee is lowered, it seemed like a better choice than paying for her, and not breeding her.

I realize the regisration fees, inspection fees, vet fees, etc. I have worked out the billing with my vet, that is taken care of. The registration is gona be expensive either way. And I will have more money next year, vet bills from another horse put me in a jam.

I am not breeding to an AHS stallion becaues I cant afford a stud fee like that this year, and I have to go with a Hanoverian registered, as well as Hano approved stallion. Ive looked around and the ones I am interested in are too expensive.

People are saying that I am not realizing that stud fee is the least expensive part, well it is still expensive. I am not going to put another $1,000 out when that would pay for registration and inspection fees next year.

[Dressage_Diva333]

I think that this is a special deal with Bravo.

I am seriously considering breeding my Royal Appearance/Grannus mare to Bravo this year. I am in the same predicament as the OP. I think that Bravo is a talented young stallion, with fabulous bloodlines. The fact that his first foal crop brought a stallion prospect says a lot to me. Bravo and this mare would make a fine cross. What makes people think that just because the mare is older, she's not going to do as well? I've seen her move, and as long as she puts some weight on for inspection, I don't see there being any problem at all. I am taking my 18 year old mare to a GOV inspection next year, she is an absolutly stunning mover, and I'm sure they will take into consideration that she is 19 (will be at the time), and had lots of foals. Considering the circumstances, my mare looks pretty darn good. The OP's mare will have no issue IMO, she is a very nice mare. I am confident that once she puts weight on, she will look totally fine again.

I am doing the same thing as Chris with my stallion, because he is a new stallion, offering very reduced rates on his stud fee. Does that mean the stallion is any different in quality from other stallions? Not at all.

[spacely]

Stacey, Chris is offering him lower to help the economy. Nothing wrong with the stallion at all. Same thing as Kathy St. Martin offering her stallion for 350, etc. Nothing wrong there either I dont think. Both just see the economy and feeling the "suck of it!" :(

My post was not in any way directed at the stallion. I meant that perhaps the reason the OP was considering him was the lowered stud fee given her money woes on another BB. Nothing at all against Bravo. He's a lovely boy & I can't wait to see more of him in the future. I think we are all feeling the "suck" of the economy at the moment. I think it's a great deal Chris is offering & if he were the type of stallion I look for, I'd jump at it. :yes:

To the OP, don't be afraid to ask SO's for deals or flexible terms either. They may be more than willing especially since your mare is a proven producer & got good inspection scores. I know a few SOs I spoke to this year were happy to offer deals.:yes:

[faluut42]

To the OP, don't be afraid to ask SO's for deals or flexible terms either. They may be more than willing especially since your mare is a proven producer & got good inspection scores. I know a few SOs I spoke to this year were happy to offer deals.:yes:

One of the defiante perks of Bravo is that he is nice, his stud fee is lower, AND hes only about 3hrs away, I can get the semen into the mare faster, and the shipping will be less expensive.

Most other stallion owners willing to give me a deal are across the country (added time from collection to insemination and much higher shipping fees, I looked into it).

[Oakstable]

If you are three hours away from Bravo, haul the mare there and breed her across the aisle.

[STF]

Sally!!! Come on...
We are the "mature" ones in this. Were supposed to offer help and advice, not sarcasm and nastiness.
:(

[eurofoal]

One of the defiante perks of Bravo is that he is nice, his stud fee is lower, AND hes only about 3hrs away, I can get the semen into the mare faster, and the shipping will be less expensive.

Most other stallion owners willing to give me a deal are across the country (added time from collection to insemination and much higher shipping fees, I looked into it).

I think the cross is very nice... your mare is very elegant. Bravo's very small foal crops have produced some spectacular foals. When I first saw some video of Bravo as a 2 yr old, I put it in the machine with that little thought of..." yah yah yah, another so called stallion prospect..." Quite frankly, I was floored! He's beautiful, moves like a jungle cat, and has definite stallion presence. To top it off-- he's got jumping talent and a bold dispostion. (So, you may truly get a multi-talented prospect). He's got bloodlines that are both well proven and in a completely unique combination...(hybrid vigor, anyone?) Then, his next move is to sire a stallion prospect and inspection site winners out of a very slim slim slim number of foals (was it 4 foals?). He's got a great owner and the lowest stud fee around. Conception rate is fantastic. His registries are acceptable to me and to most.

As an added incentive, he's not only in the same time zone, but you can actually trailer your mare over there and save the hassle of coordinating your shipments. So, when I factor in the bizillion things that make me choose a stallion... I'd say, "What are you waiting for?" It's June! Time to breed your mare.

[STF]

When I first saw some video of Bravo as a 2 yr old, I put it in the machine with that little thought of..." yah yah yah, another so called stallion prospect..." Quite frankly, I was floored! He's beautiful, moves like a jungle cat, and has definite stallion presence.

Jill, I thought the same thing. Then I got the video and I was impressed. I think many are juding Bravo based on second hand info or experience and need to see him themself. Not just the 100DT video either. I have shown it to a lot of people and if you can look through the "young stallion, not yet mature stage", there is a lot to offer.
Im sad that so many people are being against a horse that was American bred as well as talented. But honestly, it does not suprise me.

[okggo]

I also wanted to clarify that I wasn't poking a stab at Bravo, I think he is lovely! But....I wouldn't put a mare to him that had some "faults" I wanted fixed, not knowing his prepotency yet. If I had a mare that I would be okay with a clone of or one that consistently produced better than herself I would be far more open to a new stallion. That is just my opinion and I'm being pretty honest, so that opens me up to flaming I know.

She asked our opinions and for that particular mare, I would go with proven. JMHO.

Edited to add, I'm not saying I dislike the mare either, I think she is very cute, but I do think there are some things about her that could be improved upon, and Bravo may very well be able to do that, but to narrow the crapshoot odds of breeding.... Hopefully I haven't offended anyone.

[eurofoal]

Jill, I thought the same thing. Then I got the video and I was impressed. I think many are juding Bravo based on second hand info or experience and need to see him themself. Not just the 100DT video either. I have shown it to a lot of people and if you can look through the "young stallion, not yet mature stage", there is a lot to offer.
Im sad that so many people are being against a horse that was American bred as well as talented. But honestly, it does not suprise me.

Hey Chris,
Have you got any video on youtube that you can show?

Warning, though-- you gotta watch out for Chris, she sends photos of the horse's nose stuck in the camera lens and wants to know what you think of it!!! Methinks someone needs to get her a "how to take good horse photos" book.

[Ladybug Hill]

I usually hate when folks post answers like the one that I am about to offer.

With the economy what it is, I don't think that I would breed any mare if I were tight on money. Feeding two horses is twice as expensive as feeding one. I am not tight on money and I still have decided to only breed one this year and none after that. Please consider how many expenses you might incur if your mare has problems or the foal is sick--I have heard quoted $4000 to $10,000 to treat a sick foal. Not trying to be mean--just a thought to consider.

[Oakstable]

Sally!!! Come on...
We are the "mature" ones in this. Were supposed to offer help and advice, not sarcasm and nastiness.
:(



Huh?

[allanglos]

Take a look at www.SHNpayback.com There are several warmbloods still available at half priced. Bravo is one (I see now that he is advertised on "sale", we will have to adjust his Payback service, too).

Also available are:

DELACROIX ($500). Hanoverian.
MONTSERRAT ($694). Hanoverian.
RUBINO BELLISSIMO ($844). Hanoverian.

NOVALIS ($400). KWPN




I am tight on money at the moment. Thats why I am trying to lease her out. Since no one is interested, and Bravos stud fee is lowered, it seemed like a better choice than paying for her, and not breeding her.

I realize the regisration fees, inspection fees, vet fees, etc. I have worked out the billing with my vet, that is taken care of. The registration is gona be expensive either way. And I will have more money next year, vet bills from another horse put me in a jam.

I am not breeding to an AHS stallion becaues I cant afford a stud fee like that this year, and I have to go with a Hanoverian registered, as well as Hano approved stallion. Ive looked around and the ones I am interested in are too expensive.

People are saying that I am not realizing that stud fee is the least expensive part, well it is still expensive. I am not going to put another $1,000 out when that would pay for registration and inspection fees next year.

[STF]

Huh?


Im sorry, I think I took your post the wrong way.

:o

[DownYonder]

You know, I am a bit taken aback by the insinuations that since the mare is approved by AHS, she is apparently “too good” to be used to produce a foal for Oldenburg. Come on, folks – is that really necessary?

Also, FWIW, when the Oldenburg inspectors stopped at Paxton last year to inspect stallions, Bravo was one of the ones they liked the most. Katrin Burger didn’t even know anything about the stallion beforehand, but liked him quite a bit.

The OP is looking for a nice young stallion with a very affordable stud fee. Bravo has a very respectable pedigree, he is fully approved and performance tested, and is a real bargain at only $350. I can’t think of a single AHS approved stallion available for even close to that amount.

I am sure the OP’s mare and Bravo could make a very nice foal. Are there other stallions out there that might make a better cross for the mare? Maybe, maybe not - but probably not any fully approved by a major registry that are available for only $350.

[Oakstable]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;3278526]You know, I am a bit taken aback by the insinuations that since the mare is approved by AHS, she is apparently “too good” to be used to produce a foal for Oldenburg. Come on, folks – is that really necessary?

QUOTE]


DY, you can't have read this whole thread. The common thread among those of us who said she should stick with an AHS stallion was to SAVE additional inspection fees. The OP has made it very clear in several threads that money is a serious issue. That's it. Done.

I have NO mares in more than one registry. I make it work with options available to me. Breeding is expensive enough.

This could branch off into the need for an umbrella organization like Canada has but it doesn't need to.

I think Bravo is a logical choice for this mare for multiple reasons and I am sure the foal will be lovely.

[Home Again Farm]

My suggestion was no disparagement of Bravo or Oldenburgs. Heck, I own three Oldenburg mares that I would never part with.

I suggested an AHS stallion - and an AHS stallion with a long track record and a lot of prepotency - to 1) save the OP some money, time and effort since the mare is already approved with AHS and 2) to give a better chance of getting something predictable from the cross - hence the part about a tried and true and hopefully prepotent stallion. I do not play in breed wars. They are a waste of time and energy and never reflect well on the participants. ;)

[STF]

You know, I am a bit taken aback by the insinuations that since the mare is approved by AHS, she is apparently “too good” to be used to produce a foal for Oldenburg. Come on, folks – is that really necessary?

That is the way a lot of people took it as well. :( And also as Bravo was not good enuff for a "Hano mare."
:(

[DownYonder]

No where in the original post did she state that money was tight. So why are people trying to encourage her stay with AHS “so she can save money”?

OTOH, even if she HAD stated that money was tight, why would people try to dissuade her from breeding to a $350 stallion and spend probably well over four times that much to breed to an AHS stallion? Yeah, she wouldn’t have to get the mare re-inspected, plus she could just register the foal by mail and not have to take the foal to an inspection, but she could very likely spend far more on the higher studfee for an AHS stallion than she would save by not having to get the mare and foal inspected, and if she wanted her foal branded, she would have to haul it to an AHS inspection site anyway.

Sorry if I misinterpreted things, but it just looked as though some folks either thought the mare is too good to breed for an Oldenburg foal or they thought she was too good to breed to Bravo.

[Oakstable]

DY,
She advertised the mare for lease in e-warmbloods just a few days ago and she has a thread going on how to put weight on this mare because the other horses take her food.

That's why I was trying to save her the money from putting her into another registry.
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This is from e-warmbloods:
Our Shadow is a 16hd, 16yr old, Grey (heterozygous, has had 60% non-grey offspring). She scored an impressive overall 7.5 (including five individual scores of 8 ), and was named Champion mare at her AHS inspection in 1997. She was the 3rd highest scoring non-Hanoverian mare in the nation and the 9th highest scoring mare out of all the mares inspected that year.

She has good breeding, (Spectacular Round/Power Ruler/Nagea). Her sire and grandsire are noted sires of Hunters and Jumpers. So she has the potenial to produce a horse for either jumping or dressage.

Her 2002 colt was Reserve Champion Colt out of over 30 other colts.

I can't afford to breed this year, so I am offering a free breed lease on her, I am flexible on terms. Current endometrial biopsy report.

--------------------------------------

The economy is taking its toll on lots of people. There's no shame in that.

Actually I would be looking to the stallion who sired her 2002 Reserve Champion colt.

But hey, money is tight, and if you ask for opinions, you get them, and they are worth what you paid for them.

[talloaks]

Well my unsolicited opinion would be for the OP to breed her mare to Bravo at the super special price, considering what a nice producer he is and also the fact that she can save money by picking up the semen. I love to breed to the Hilltop Farm stallions because it is a drive about the same time frame that I have done many times. Sure is more convenient as far as notifying the stallion owner as to when you need the semen, and then the ease of pickup. I believe the TB mare would cross well with Bravo, but this is just my humble opinion. If money is tight now, the lower stud fee is a great help right now. Next year could be entirely different.

[YankeeLawyer]

You know, I am a bit taken aback by the insinuations that since the mare is approved by AHS, she is apparently “too good” to be used to produce a foal for Oldenburg. Come on, folks – is that really necessary?
.

I don't think anyone said that. My concern would be that she might not make main mare book for Oldenburg; the inspections (AHS or Oldenburg) can be tough. So I wouldn't breed her and just assume that she will be accepted.

I do think Bravo would be a nice match for the mare. I don't think it's prudent to budget this year based on anticipated increased income/financial flexibility *next* year. That kind of planning is what gets a lot of people in trouble (though sometimes everything pans out just fine). In this economy, I would be more conservative. But that's just me.

[faluut42]

[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;3279512]I don't think anyone said that. My concern would be that she might not make main mare book for Oldenburg; the inspections (AHS or Oldenburg) can be tough. So I wouldn't breed her and just assume that she will be accepted./QUOTE]

I had the same concern BELIEVE me! I was freaking out because she is not the prettiest thing in the world right now. I was told by another breeder that because her scores where so good with AHS, GOV would accept her (id have to find the message to see exactly what she said). I am not sure if its true. I was going to call the registry and check, but I thought the first step was to see if this would even be a good match. Third party opinions are always a goof thing to have.

I have worked something out and now, assuming she gets in foal, there is already interest in the foal. (and the stallion is registered Hano, and approved AHS :D)

[goodmorning]

Well glad that you have worked something out, but I still find it interesting that 'just because' she was approved with one registry she will be with another. I have not taken mares to inspections, just witnessed the process, and I would NOT count on that, particularly with regards to TB mares - there are some inspectors that have no problem stating their dislike for TB mares, at all. Somewhat sad actually, as word has gotten out & inspection 'attendence' has decreased to the point where some are just getting COP's out of their TB mares, as one judge in general stated that he wanted no direct TB blood closer then the 3rd generation! And some of these mares/foals are very nice. The thing is, the TB mare owners own warmbloods too, and are changing to alernate registries all together...

[YankeeLawyer]

I will just warn you that I have seen some wacky things happen at inspections. Count on nothing until you have those qualifying scores in your hot little paws.

That said, what is the worst case scenario if she is not accepted by GOV? Wouldn't the foal still qualify for a COP? I think you should consider whether that would suffice. If so, the inspection issue is a non-issue in and if she is ultimately approved, that is just a happy bonus.

I like the idea of using Bravo, but I also like breeding to a nice newcomer here and there. He has proven lines behind him and is nice.

[Oakstable]

OP,
If you do go with the AHS stallion, make sure your mare's DNA is on file. Or any stallion for that matter. Things happen and you need to make sure you have a registerable baby.

[misita]

Having had the privilege to personally handle Bravo I would like to submit this statement:
Bravo is an incredible being, the result of a long line of proven horses. Carefully bred, wisely handled. He is sensitive, extremely personable, very intelligent, critical of those people that interact with him, kind, of royal stance and attitude. I interacted with this stallion in an enclosure that immediately adjoined with a young stallion close by on one side and the broodmare band on the other. He was at liberty, in tune to my body signals, responsive, easily directed, respectful and athletic. He is elegant, powerful, patient and modest. His physique is of good carrying ability, and he shows no signs of stress while being handled. I would venture to guess that this fine stallion could achieve the highest form of schooling with little problem. At the conclusion of our three short sessions (@20-25 minutes each) that I was with him I could lead this stallion anywhere in his large, naturally hilly terrain turnout with a simple light rope draped around his neck. It was a memory that I shall cherish in my old age!
I am besotted by him and I anxiously await the birth of his foal out of the mare Faunja, hoping to call it my own.


Here you go Bitless Rider, your filly. By Bravo. Shown at 5 days old with her owner, Linda.

[Bitless Rider]

Here you go Bitless Rider, your filly. By Bravo. Shown at 5 days old with her owner, Linda.
Simply saying "Thank you" seems inadequate and small but I know not what else I can say. Working with Chris for my dream filly has been an experience of integrity, ethics and first and foremost a new friendship. It doesn't get any better.
My recommendation to those that are considering breeding their beloved mare to Bravo is "GO"!!.............then start picking out a "B" name!!! I already have my next name chosen for another foal in the future!
Look out world, here comes B'Godiva!!!!!!!!!!

[misita]

This is such a special story. Some of you may remember that May 7th, 2008, we lost the lovely filly Bogatti S. Klasse. Bitless Rider (Linda) had purchased that filly in utero. We lost her at 2 weeks old to joint ill. We had thought everything was fine up until this point. We ended up at UC Davis but nothing could save Klasse.

This was such a devastating loss for me and especially for Linda. Linda is one of those in utero purchasers who e-mail every day, want photos of the mare all the way through the pregnancy, udder updates, and so on and so forth. Linda was so very brave and kind to accept the one mare I had left whose in utero foal hadn't sold.

After such a sad loss, this story finally comes to a fairy tale ending with Linda getting her dream filly. Although B' Godiva can never replace Klasse, she is her own lovely self and impossible not to fall for, hook, line, and sinker.

Congratulations again Linda.

[Piaffe~Passage]

I think the two would make a lovely combination. I bred to Schroeder this year, who had a "lower" stud fee, I got the early booking reduction. I understand the going for a lower stud fee bit. I am going to try getting the TB mare I'm leasing into the Hanoverian books July 24th, cross your fingers everyone. I am at over $3400 dollars, with the "lower" stud fee, with the mare taking on the first try. Imagine if I had paid $2000 or more for a stud fee. The more and more I here about Bravo, the more I look at him, and the more I think about him for next year. I really like him. He's a nice boy, good luck to you!

[misita]

Fertility dancing for you piaffe-passage. Schroeder is wonderful and I hope you have a really nice baby in 2009.;)