Help selecting a stallion for the crossbred mare

[Vegas Sky]

Hello, within the next few years I plan on breeding my paint cross mare. Before you bring up responsible breeding, please know that I have considered all the possibilities, know all the expenses associated with it, and I do not plan on selling the foal, but rather keep it and raise it for a fine career in eventing.

My mare is a twelve year old paint cross (about 75% paint and quarter horse breeding, the other 25% is unkown, but suspected 25% - her only registration is PtHA). She is sound and healthy in all respects. She is about 15.3 and 1100 pounds, well proportioned, but a bit stocky, as would be expected from her breeding. She is a fantastic athlete with fine movement and a good, bold, clean jump on her.

Here is a link to some pictures of her - they're scattered throughout but it's the best I can do. She is obviously the bay tobiano throughout the album.
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t201/vegasbay/

As a reference, I am looking for something that will complement her refined head, but add some height and lighten up the offspring a little while still being substantial enough for hard work. I am mainly considering two very different breeds - the Trakehner (namely Windfall II if I could get her approved for him) and the Akhal-Teke. I think both would complement my girl nicely, but I am still open to other horses - registering with a breed is not important to me, just something that will be able to event, and do so at high levels.

Does anyone have any much-appreciated suggestions?

[cheekyhorse]

Unfortunatley with the Trakehner (and many of the other warmblood breeds) you will not be able to have her approved with them. The Trakehner breed has a closed book, meaning only full Trakehner and small amount of Tb, Arab or Anglo arab are eligible for inspection/approvals they do not allow any other breed into their registries. But if you bred her to a Trakehner, as long as the stallion is approved with his registry, your foal will still be eligible for 1/2 or appendix registration.
Good luck in your search!

[Dalemma]

I personally would cross with a TB.

Dalemma

[pintopiaffe]

My best girl was 1/2 APHA (high % TB, virtually 1/4 each APHA(QH)/TB/Arab/ASB). She had the brains, the body and the talent to go all the way. While my stallion is supposed to be my upper level project--she would have gone past him very quickly had she lived.

Trakehner is a very nice nick usually with APHA or QH. They compliment each other well. Yeager is a high % Trak stallion I am strongly considering for the daughter of that mare.

I would also look at TB. I'm suspecting you could add some suspension, so look to those who have 'air time' and are truly sporthorse type vs. running.

If you want colour--for this particular mare I would recommend State of the Art in a heartbeat. Randomize might be worth looking up. I *adore* Sempatico and his kids, but I think he might make a bit too chunky in this case--though he adds loft for sure.

I am a huge fan of the APHA. Lots of intentional breeding to be a family, all around, using horse. Which equals a pretty handy, talented and sane partner usually. I love their work ethic.

[Carrera]

I too would go TB. I really like A Fine Romance, he has produced some really nice eventing babies too

[goodmorning]

I think she means the mare needs to be approved to be bred to Windfall....

I would also suggest a TB, or something with a lot of TB blood...

How about A Fine Romance? Reputed Testamony would be worth a look.....Formula One is also very nice, but grey...

I also like Trak's, but can't give you any real suggestions. The only thing is, with the lack of TB blood I would really try to get some more TB blood in there....

[Vegas Sky]

I know that they give preference to Trakehner mares with Windfall, but I don't know whether they *have* to be approved, but I bet it would be pretty darn hard for a non-aproved mare to get on the schedule.

You think TB blood is the best way to go? I know that would add a lot of endurance, but I am really looking for an EXCEPTIONAL stallion.

I know the Akhal Teke is a rare breed, but they are known for their endurance, and they seem to have a pretty good jump in them, but they do have a pretty long back. Would you guys just not even consider it?

[holsteinersrock]

Akhal Teke's are cool, but I doubt if they could possibly sire enough jump and DRESSAGE for a future eventing star out of your mare.... endurance, yes, and they are talented, but still...

I'd go with a tall TB, as suggested above, or with a WB with lots of blood (it may be hidden in the pedigree, so it pays off to do some research --- our guy who's been eventing to upper levels has 40% "blood" when you do a pedigree analysis way back), other choices I'd look into stallions such as, and that's just two examples, Hunter that is over 17 h and half TB http://holsteiner.com/StallionRoster/2008StallionRoster/2008%20Stallion%20Roster%20Horses/Hunter.pdf and Orleandro, http://www.crookedwillowfarms.com/horseDetail.do?keyName=Orleandro&type=stallion

Anna

[goodmorning]

A Fine Romance is pretty exceptional, I can't think of many TB stallions that have stood at Hilltop farm to improve on WB mares ;)

[pintopiaffe]

I still think the right right Trakehner is going to be lovely with that mare. And unless your breeding for *breeding stock*, there's not a thing wrong with Appendix Trak papers--you can still compete for awards. There was an elegant black one a few years ago who is deceased... (sorry, mentalpause, his name escapes me) he is the type I'd put her to. I've seen several EXCEPTIONAL QHxs to an Abdullah X Kronjuvel son (not approved--he went the AWS route, but is now gelded) The combination of Dully's legs and elegance, and Kronjuvel's substance and push were just a great nick.

I'd also look at Irish Sporthorse. I think RID could be a bit too much on her, but some of the 1/2 TB x RID would be very nice. You'd not loose the substance which is such a nice thing about that mare.

The thing with crossbreeding, is you breed type to type. You compliment the types, you don't want to put a 17h all legs, super refined stallion on her. You want a stallion of similar type, but prepotent for the attributes you'd like to improve.

Check out both Candidus and Limet Hurry at Wolf Run Farm. Candidus had a really nice colt out of an Appendix APHA mare. I don't know if there are still any photos. He's grown up to be both stout and elegant, quite suited to eventing. I *don't* know anything about his temperament, but I do know the old man and he's a gem.

I really like your mare. My APHA cross mare of similar build was bred to my stallion 3x. He is 15/16ths Arab, RPSI Approved. She had 1/4 Arab, so it was more 'breeding back' than crossing... but the foals are now all adults and are wonderfully athletic, sane and rather competitive. Her next date actually would have been a Lusitano--but I was breeding strictly for dressage.

[Donella]

I think she is cute, but she is seriously sickle hocked, so I would pick a stallion that is super correct in the hind end angulation.

[FriesianX]

What about one of the Tbreds that are Hannoverian approved? They seem to be great jumpers! I also like the ISH option, but you might end up with heavier than you want. And Sir Caletto is producing nice jumpers...

[Gindarkh]

I have two Akhal-Teke breeding stallions that are both descendents of Absent, who won 5 Olympic medals, including Gold, in dressage, and whose sire was Russian National showjump champion at 16 years of age. Tekes do add length of leg and athletic ability as well as endurance. Breed for something different for a change ! :)

[Molly Malone]

Windfall would be a super choice or how about Titulus? I love Trakehners, and as someone pointed out, they are a proven nick with paint and quarter horses.

If you went TB, Salute The Truth might be worth a look.

[NoDQhere]

We have bred several "stock horse" crosses over the years and they are really nice horses. We are riding a APHA Trakehner cross now and he is a blast. Brave, athletic and EASY :lol:

I would stick with Trakehner as well. They bring a lot to the table, mainly sanity and soundness, IMO.

[FriesianX]

I have two Akhal-Teke breeding stallions that are both descendents of Absent, who won 5 Olympic medals, including Gold, in dressage, and whose sire was Russian National showjump champion at 16 years of age. Tekes do add length of leg and athletic ability as well as endurance. Breed for something different for a change ! :)

You can p.m. me if you'd like, I'd LOVE to see pics (a web link, photo album, etc) of the Tekes - they are such cool horses, and SO unusual! From what I hear, they do tend to be great jumpers!

[Erin Pittman]

I am all for Trakehner breeding (LOVE them) - just be careful as some of them do add a lot of substance and if you want to lighten your mare, it may not be the best option. If you do choose Trakehner, I'd go for one that has a lot of TB blood in it (Windfall II qualifies for this!). Some Trakehners that come to my mind for eventing (besides Windfall) include: Fandango (http://www.fantasyfarm.net/breeding/stallion.php?id=35), Pavarotti (http://www.fantasyfarm.net/breeding/stallion.php?id=29)(small, though), Tagaelen (http://www.freewebs.com/tagaelen/tagaelen.htm), Tigre (http://www.belloaksfarm.com/tigre.html), Tradition (http://www.espritequestriancenter.com/tradition-page.htm), and Tzigane (http://americantrakehner.com/Stallions/Tzigane.asp). I'm absolutely positive that it's not a complete list but those are some I was looking at when I was considering re-breeding my Trakehner-Morgan mare last year (decided she'd had enough foals and deserved retirement at age 23 instead!). You can see some short videos of several Trakehners at http://www.trakehners-international.com/videodatabase.html I did breed aforementioned mare to a Trakehner, Hadrian, in hopes of getting a better engine (Peanut's butt isn't as powerful as I'd like), a shorter back and height. I definitely got the engine and the height in my 2007 colt, Siesta (http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/29354/2959284040039146725S600x600Q85.jpg) - remains to be seen if he'll be a jumper or eventer as he is named Siesta for a very good reason....:rolleyes:

I think your mare looks very nice - maybe a *tad* long in the back. The USEA has a list of stallions for breeding eventers - you should check it out, too: http://www.useventing.com/competitions.php?section=Stallion

[Altamont Sport Horses]

I will second Trakehners and Fandango. I have a 2007 colt by Fandango and out of an Anglo-Trakehner mare. The colt is very athletic, an excellent mover and not bulky but he does have good bone. I have some photos of him at 6 months on my website. He has put more bone on since those were taken. He also has a very sweet and loving disposition. www.altamontsporthorses.com/kryptic.html

I also have a Trakehner-Appaloosa 2007 filly by Tanzeln. The filly, Lula, is incredibly athletic; she came out running and jumping. She is good sized, has a short, strong back and a winning temperment. All the visitors to our farm choose her as their favorite baby. The stallion owners, John & Kari Cassel, are absolutely wonderful to do business with. Lula's dam is currently being bred back to Tanzeln. www.altamontsporthorses.com/tallulahbelle.html

If the sire is an approved Trakehner the foal can be registered with the ATA as a part-Trakehner and is eligible for ATA awards, etc.

[Blacktree]

As a reference, I am looking for something that will complement her refined head, but add some height and lighten up the offspring a little while still being substantial enough for hard work. I am mainly considering two very different breeds - the Trakehner (namely Windfall II if I could get her approved for him) and the Akhal-Teke. I think both would complement my girl nicely, but I am still open to other horses - registering with a breed is not important to me, just something that will be able to event, and do so at high levels.

Super cute mare!
Our stallion is 1/2 trakehner, a refined WB type. He should keep a refined head for you and give some more leg and a shorter back. All of his babies so far have been very light movers in front and have had a great head/neck set. He has an amazing jump (and is very bold), I think that all of his kids will excel in eventing or jumpers. Worth considering. :)

I have two Akhal-Teke breeding stallions that are both descendents of Absent, who won 5 Olympic medals, including Gold, in dressage, and whose sire was Russian National showjump champion at 16 years of age. Tekes do add length of leg and athletic ability as well as endurance. Breed for something different for a change ! :)

I want to see pix!! Love those Tekes... ***Linky Linky please*** :lol::lol:

[pintopiaffe]

I've seen Tradition, and several of his foals either go through RPSI inspections or be evaluated by Otto. He is lovely, as are his foals. REALLY lovely. I can't say I know him well enough to comment on temperament, but I *do* know his owner, Carol Poulin-Taylor is a judge, breeder and competitor... and I really don't think she'd keep anything but an exceptional temperament in her barn with extraneous parts still intact. ;)

[Vegas Sky]

Well, after a little bit of discussion with Gindarkh, Akhal-Teke it is! The Trakehners sure are a nice breed, and I have a huge soft spot for them, but the Tekes are such a noble and exotic breed, and apparently there are quite a few of them competing successfully at UL eventing!

Thank you all for your wonderful suggestions! This is by no means going to be my only breeding, so when I cross this mare a second time, or find another mare to cross, I'll be looking a lot at these stallions you've suggested - they are all fine looking animals!

But I am super excited for my little half-Teke baby in a few years. Please learn more about this horse as I have - do a little research with google on the Turkoman horse and the Akhal-Teke.

[cheekyhorse]

I quite like some of the Akel-Teke's I've seen. I actually pondering buying one at one point, but couldn't get past the 'skinny' look of them. The breeder I spoke to said it was the breed and that they just look like that, but I'd be trying awfully hard to fatten it up some if it were mine. However, I do like certain specimans of the breed that I've seen, they are a rather intriguing breed of horse to me.

[Gindarkh]

I quite like some of the Akel-Teke's I've seen. I actually pondering buying one at one point, but couldn't get past the 'skinny' look of them. The breeder I spoke to said it was the breed and that they just look like that, but I'd be trying awfully hard to fatten it up some if it were mine. However, I do like certain specimans of the breed that I've seen, they are a rather intriguing breed of horse to me.

ROFL, they are not skinny, they are LEAN, (or should be) !! They are the greyhound of the equine world and they look awful when fat !

But the flip side of that is once you get used to riding that leanness, you feel so much more secure, as you sit around the horse better and not so much on top of it...

[pintopiaffe]

Gindarkh, do you have any links? I am fascinated!

I do believe that Tekes are a very prepotent choice for crossing, similar in that respect to Arabs, no?

[Gindarkh]

I will PM them so I don't ruffle any Mod advertising feathers...:)

[Vegas Sky]

Gindarkh, do you have any links? I am fascinated!

I do believe that Tekes are a very prepotent choice for crossing, similar in that respect to Arabs, no?

Here is a link to a video of Absent on youtube. This horse was a 3 time olympic dressage champion under two riders, and the great-great-grandfather of my soon-to-be baby!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twuk4FDgoAE&feature=related

There are also a whole bunch of other videos of lovely Tekes.

[Ozalynda]

I am also waiting for my Gindarkh baby to be born!! Due end of July and I can't decide if I am hoping for a colt or a filly ;)

Since I don't own the stallion I guess I am allowed to post a link?

http://www.centralasianequines.com

[Ozalynda]

Here are a sampling of my favorite links about Akhal Tekes:

http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/199703/the.golden.horses.of.turkmenistan.htm
http://www.horses.ru/akhalteke.htm
http://turkmeniya.tripod.com/id22.html
http://www.turanianhorse.org/
http://www.stavropol-teke.com/web/stavr.nsf/Articles/80DE9581C29AEAA58525724B006D6641

Enjoy!