Foal urinating through umbilical stump

[avezan]

I thought I had posted this earlier, but it didn't show up. Forgive me if it shows up twice. I had a foal born yesterday morning. I noticed that she was damp around the umbilicus. There was no smell of urine, but I'm not sure what else it could be. I have been dipping the stump with Chlorhexidine often. I have not actually seen her urinate. Last night when the vet was out for the IgG (which was great) she injected the stump with some Chlorhexidine to see if that would help it dry up faster. Another vet recommended starting the foal on Chloramphenocal (abx) as a preventative. I have the foal in a deeply straw bedded stall. I let them out for an hour or so this morning in a clean grassy roundpen. this morning she seemed dry, but on a late morning check and then a mid afternoon check I did find her damp again on her abdomen. So, do you have any other recomendations? I did give her the Chloramphenocal this afternoong. I'll watch carefully for diahreah and discontinue it if she gets that. I also gave her the foal does of Probios probiotic paste. Anything else? Thanks!

[Sonesta]

Call the vet. It does sometimes happen that they urinate from the umbilicus (though usually it's colts that do so). Vet intervention may be required.

[amdfarm]

Check out this thread. The condition is called patent urachus.

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=151449

[avezan]

amd, thanks for the link. I had read the OP, but I recalled it was talking about a yearling and I didn't read the rest of the thread. So, interestingly, this is a filly. There is no hernia. The cord seemed large, but didnt' break early. The mare was down for a while. It broke when the foal struggled to get up. I tried to support it, but missed! ;) It bled a little, but not too much. On the other thread, it seemed like the foals "developed" this several days or weeks after foaling, but it seems this filly is doing it right from the beginning. The vet that saw her last night said that the iodine might cause swelling that may be difficult to distinguish from swelling due to infection or other problem, so we are using the chlorhexidine. I wonder if I should try iodine? Mine is 10% so I need to dilute it a bit. Other than being damp on her abdomen, the foals umbilical stump looks normal.

[Home Again Farm]

Call the vet. I lost one that had a similar umbilicus. I lost one that was sililar to yours. Her umbilicus had been damp and a bit ragged and we were treating it with chlorhexidine trying to get it to dry up. In hindsight, I believe a course of antibiotics would have probably made the difference between a dead three week old foal and a lively, healthy one. Her necropsy showed an abscess behind the umbilicus.

[Lesley Feakins]

We had one a couple of years ago with Patent Urachus,a colt. My regular Vet checked him out but I also was in contact with the folks at New Bolton. They had me put the colt on SMZ right away and actually they had me stop dipping his cord (I had previously been dipping daily). It took a couple of weeks before he stopped completely but during that time and also for a week after he was on SMZ. We also monitored him carefully taking temp etc. daily.

[spacely]

What others have said. Call the vet.

Also, when giving the chloramphenicol make sure you wear gloves. CHPC is toxic to humans.

[avezan]

Thanks for the replies. First, I did have the vet out. At 12 hours for the IgG. She examined the foal. Is there anything else a vet can do? The foal is now 2 and a half days. I do have the foal on the Chloramphenicol. Spacely, I had no idea it was toxic. Are you sure? I've been giving it for 3 weeks to another mare. I usually get it all over me. In what way is it toxic? The foal is doing well, but still damp in the abdomen. If there is an opening, I can see how it would lead to infection, hence my decision to put her on the antibiotics. The vet that examined her did not recommend it, suggesting that I wait until the foal showed signs of infection to start. I started it on the advice of a vet over the phone. sigh...

[spacely]

Spacely, I had no idea it was toxic. Are you sure? I've been giving it for 3 weeks to another mare. I usually get it all over me. In what way is it toxic?

I am absolutely certain. There is a chance that you will develop aplastic anemia. I think the odds are about 1 in 25,000 but that's enough of a risk for me. Use gloves, be careful & wash well after you are done.

[Home Again Farm]

How did you decide on Chloramphenicol as opposed to a broad spectrum antibiotic? If the umbilicus remains damp, I would have the vet back out and rather forcefully ask to have an US done of her umbilicus and discuss antibiotic treatment. Since I lost my filly to this sort of thing in 2005, there have been a few foals where my mares foal out who had damp, ragged umbilicus at several day of age. All were put on SMZ for about a week and all are fine. Good luck!!! Hoping all goes well.

[avezan]

I was told the chloramphenicol was a broad spectrum, strong anti-biotic that was mild to the system of a newborn. I've had foals on SMZ's before get sicker from the SMZ's than the original issue. But I will start pursuing this more aggressively. My biggest problem is getting a good vet to come out. Will the ultrasound confirm the patent urachus? Or are we looking for infection? I think it is fairly clear that we are dealing with a patent urachus. I found this article on the net: http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/HealthConditions/LargeAnimalEquineTopics/PatentUrachusinFoals/ It recommends cauterizing the navel for a congenital patent urachus, which is what this filly had. I'll ask about that. Right now I am not turning them out much. It is too hot during the day, and at night I let them have access to a small paddock. I have the stall bedded deeply with straw and I'm dipping the navel alternatively with Chlorhexidine and a 5% iodine solution. The end of it is dry and black, but the top is moist and white and pink. There is no swelling, and the top looks "normal" for a foal just a few hours old. Her abdomen is still damp. What do you recommend to prevent scalding? Creamy vaseline? Thanks!!

[2Horse]

Please have the vet do something! I just recently lost a very big and strong colt to patent urachus. I was dipping it. Never knew it was not closed until it was to late, and the necropsy showed that was what it was. My colt showed absolutely no sign of being sick. He was seen up and playing at 3:30 pm and was stiff at 7 pm the same evening.:cry:

[amdfarm]

You're right that it's congenital, but I believe the treatment is the same. The filly I mentioned in the other thread of mine that developed it around 3 days old... w/ her I had the vet come out, as it was new to me and I wasn't sure the treatment. She drew blood to check for infection and then had me start her on SMZ's for a week. She also had me dip the navel in Novalson daily until the course of antibiotics stopped. She was clear for infection, but I continued the treatment and she ended up being just fine and no more leaking after the second day of treatment.

Sorry to those that have lost foals to this.

Hope your filly gets better soon so you can enjoy her more.

[avezan]

Her abdomen was dry this morning at early morning feed and dry again at mid-morning check. Yesterday it was dry in the early morning, but damp at mid-morning. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Her stump is definitely drier and blacker, but still moist at the top. However, it looks normal for a 24 hour foal (she is 3 days this morning). Amd, thanks, I want to be able to enjoy her and for her to enjoy me! Right now she is not happy to see me when I dip her stump and give her abx 3 times a day. I'm also sorry to hear about the foals people have lost. Thank you for posting to help others who may be in a similar situation some day.

[ise@ssl]

The concern should be what's going on inside the foal not just the outside. The only way you can check this is with an ultrasound of the area. While it may be improving on the outside there still might be issues on the INSIDE.

[Treasmare2]

Mine had to have surgery and 10 days of injectable antibiotic. He had a bad connection of uthera to bladder plus he developed an infection. Had surgery at 9 days old and has no "belly button" any more. We tried the nitro on it for two days (it stopped temporaily each time) then decided with a mild fever we best get him to a vet clinic. He is now about 17 hands and hardy.

I say call a vet or get her to the nearest vet clinic.It can all go bad very quickly. Good luck

[Home Again Farm]

Will the ultrasound confirm the patent urachus? Or are we looking for infection?

The US will be looking for an infection. Depending on what is found, the vet may just to antibiotics or may recommend that the umbilicus be removed.

My filly looked very normal, except for a slightly ragged umbilicus until the end. She did not leak urine. She had had plasma at birth because she was born unattended (mare did not look at all ready and foaled while I ran to the feed store one afternoon) and the mare's colostrum was not great looking. She had a great IGG after plasma. She was carefully monitored and seemed fine. At 3.5 weeks she spiked a 109 degree fever and went into seizures. I kick myself to this day that I didn't insist on and US and antibiotics when her umbilicus seemed NQR. Hindsight, but may it benefit others as little Fabulessa's legacy. :(

[Ride'emCO]

I have been following this thread and just wondered how the foal was doing?

[avezan]

Thanks for asking. She is wonderful. Stump is normal. I am continuing the anti-biotics for one week, so I will stop tomorrow and watch carefully for any signs of fever or infection, but I think we are fine. You know, the funny thing is that the only indication of the patent urachus was that she was damp around the abdomen. It would have been so easy to miss, and maybe it is something that I should not even have worried about. But I think starting her on the anti-biotics right away was a really good thing. By the way, vet #2 was not happy that I started using iodine. She said to let it drip and that it needed to close from the inside out and drying it from the outside in could trap infection in there. but I think it was almost closed by the time I started the iodine. Now I can enjoy her! She is so good about taking the antibiotic. I think she likes the taste. :)

[Home Again Farm]

avezan, I am thrilled to hear that your foal is doing so well!!! It is probably very good that she was on antibiotic. Keep u posted! :D:D:D:D:D:D

[avezan]

Thanks Mary Lou. I'm sorry you lost a foal to this, and I hope your story and comments can help save another foal. I do think the early anti-biotics is key. I am forever grateful for this resource on COTH and the collective knowlege of all the breeders. :)

[Blacktree]

avezan-

Great update!

Our boy is doing well, too, still on the antibiotics for another week - fingers crossed that both of our 'kids' stay on the right track! :)

[avezan]

WooHoo! I'm glad your guy is doing well too. I was follwing your thread closely as well. :)

[amdfarm]

Wonderful news you two!! Now you can both enjoy your foals and them you. Yukon is a MOOSE, my lord is a big boy!! So cute, too. Looks like his daddy. :)

:( Mary Lou!! How sad. My vet drew blood to check for infection and was not ultrasounded. She actually had a normal stump and was only dripping sporatically in tiny amounts, but enough to make me PANIC!! I tend to do that when it's something I've heard about, but not yet seen and BAM, one of mine gets/has it.

[Blacktree]

Wonderful news you two!! Now you can both enjoy your foals and them you. Yukon is a MOOSE, my lord is a big boy!! So cute, too. Looks like his daddy. :)


Yes, just this weekend I think I started to relax a bit more and enjoy him - there is just so much worrying when things start out rocky! And he is definitely in the 'moose' category :lol: - Yukon's back legs were so long when he was born that we laughed that he looked like a kangaroo!

Avezan - is your filly still doing good?

[amdfarm]

Glad to hear it and I understand about the worry part of it, too. Kangaroo... we can relate to that also. FUNNY!! I call them water spiders when they come out w/ these long a$$ legs and little bodies. Poor things. :)