Registering the filly with approved dam and unapproved sire?

[Rio Blanco]

I'm finding this very frustrating. I know *nothing* about breed registries and bought a filly from a lady here in TX who told me she would be eligible for registration with American Holsteiner............ well, after a few phone calls and emails to AHHA, I have found that to be a LIE. The best they can offer me is a "certificate of pedigree" which would make her eligible for AHHA awards, but never a breeding prospect.

Dam is approved Holsteiner by LeSanto, sire is a Holsteiner by Challenger who was severly injured before he was ever inspected and is only breeding sound. I really like this filly and had hoped to breed her when and if I get accepted to vet school in the next 3 years..... however, I believe I need registration papers to breed her to the choice stallion, and with what I'd be paying to do so, I'd at least like to be able to register the foal!

What registry would I be able to get her into SOME kind of mare book for? I was looking at RPSI and it looks like she could at least make it into the Pre Mare book? I have 4 generation pedigree on both sides, it's just my biggest hurdle is the sire :( I'd love to register her with RPSI or Oldenburg....... but I'm not sure it's possible?

[avezan]

I think that if you can get a certificate of pedigree with 3 or 4 generations on BOTH sides, then you should be ok for getting into one of the mare books with RPSI or OLD NA. I don't know about AHHA. You will probably need some sort of DNA typing for the sire and dam for this to happen, though.

[DownYonder]

Since your filly's sire was never approved for breeding by any of the mainstream WB registries, you are not going to be able to get registration papers from any of them. You may be able to register her with AWR or AWS - you would have to check with them - but the Euro-based registries require that the sire be approved for breeding.

I would get the COP from AHHA so you can compete for Holsteiner awards. You can then take her to RPSI, Oldenburg (GOV), or ISR when she turns 3 years of age to be placed in a mare book. She would go into the lowest mare book because of her non-approved WB sire (for Oldenburg, that would be Pre-Mare Book II), but her foals by approved stallions would then be eligible for regular registration papers.

[kmp2707]

I am in the same situation. I have an approved, registered Holsteiner mare who is in foal to a registered 1/2 Trak (other half Hannoverian), but he is not approved as a breeding stallion. My foal is eligible for Cert of Pedigree with AHHA and RPSI (dam is also approved RPSI).

I believe if the stallion is approved in the future the foal would then be eligible for full papers. Hopefully the stallion owner has plans to go through an approval as mine does.

oops, sorry, I just re-read your post and see that the stallion is only breeding sound due to injury.

[MagicRoseFarm]

Filly is also eligible for papers with the PHR. It is the least expensive, you do not have to get the mare inspected, and once she has a foal at side you can present her to the registry of the foal's sire (whom I would also choose very carefully).

....Being accepted into a "lesser" book of any association will not do much for you and will cost alot of money. As the different registries change their rules( which they do), you may have an easier time getting grandfathered in.

I would get a lawyer to write a letter to the woman and keep it forever in your filly's file, as well as send a copy to the AHHA.

[pintopiaffe]

AWS will inspect and register, but I don't believe Elite book (approved for BREEDING) either. Despite the disparaging 'beliefs' that they will. ALTHOUGH you can move up books with PERFORMANCE scores.

RPSI will I think Pre-mare her, then if you bred to an RPSI APPROVED stallion, foal would be Book II. In 3 more generations you'd be Book I.

[Rio Blanco]

I will definately do a Certificate of Pedigree with AHHA so she can be eligible for Holsteiner awards, but I'd also like to present her to RPSI and/or Oldenburg when she's 3 for placement in one of their mare books. Do either one of those registries brand for their lowest mare books?
Also, for certificate of pedigree I just have to send DNA samples from dam, sire, and filly; copy of dam and sire's pedigree; and front/back/left/right pictures of the filly...... or do I have to get to an actual inspection site?

I printed out a copy of her ad, which repeats in print what I was told about her eligibility for registration with AHHA... I will definately save it in my filly's file, but I haven't decided if I will ever do anything about it since it's not a huge deal to me as I just wanted papers for registration purposes and don't intend to sell her (at least not for quite some time), but it's just one more strike against this lady in my mind. I love my filly and I expect great things from her in future years... and honestly I love her dam line and her grandsire, so whether or not she's eligible AHHA means little to me, aside from her potential as registered/inspected breeding stock.

[Fairview Horse Center]

If you breed your mare to an Approved Dutch stallion, I believe the foal may be eligible for Register B papers. Register B mares can have foalbook foals. I would check with the KWPN/NA for options.

[Rio Blanco]

I want to breed her to Chacco Blue eventually.....

[MagicRoseFarm]

If you have this info in print, it is definitely fraud, and affects the value of the horse you paid for... there are some on this board who know the laws regarding this type of thing, and may be able to help you pursue this, criminally. I may be wrong, but I believe for criminal charges, you do not need to hire a lawyer, and there would be restitution. I believe the only thing you would have to do is present all the info you have to the police or the DA.....

[spacely]

Do either one of those registries brand for their lowest mare books?


Your mare won't be branded. Her offspring will if that's what you are asking. RPSI will give either a full or half brand depending on which book the stallion is in. Book 1 stallions get a full brand, Book 2 get a half. I believe a Chacco Blue foal would get a full brand. I have a mare who is Main Mare Book & a Premium mare with the RPSI & she is being bred to a Book 2 stallion this year. Her foal will recieve a half brand. Her 2007 filly was by a Book 1 stallion & recieved a full brand.

In your case, I would definitely get a COP from the AHHA & then go RPSI or ISR/Old NA when she's inspected for breeding purposes.

[faluut42]

Oldenburg will not take her, but ISR/Old. N.A. should take her as long as the mare is approved but she will only be registered ISR and eligable for Pre-Mare book (unless the MO is willing to get her mare inspected ISR/Old. N.A., but that will only bump her up to the Mare Book, assuming she gets good enough scores). Her offspring can only be ISR as well.