Explain to me a foal tantrum...

[Samotis]

Just curious what foals normally do when they get upset.

What is normal, and how long before they will give it up?

I am just working with my baby and we are thinking about weaning soon as he is eating all moms food and barely nursing. (he is almost 3.5 months old)

He got pissed at me because I wanted to brush his mane. So he starts shaking his head and pawing a lot! I took him back into barn with mom and waited the tantrum out. About 5 minutes until he gave up and let me rub his mane.

I would assume this is a normal thing and not to be worried that he is getting too aggressive or stubborn? Mom is very stubborn, so I just want to make sure I don't let him have that habit!

Any help would be appreciated!:winkgrin:

Also about getting them to like their mane and ears brushed. That is about the only thing he gets pissy about.:no:

[Samotis]

oh come on, you can't tell me none of your foals have tantrums!!!:winkgrin:

[dressagetraks]

My first foal once threw himself down at about 4 weeks, exactly like a toddler having a kicking/screaming fit on the floor. Didn't get him much in way of relief from work or of being impressed at his dramatics. We got him up and went on.

My second foal was a front leg stamper and head shaker, but he grew out of it. Again, just steady consistency, kept working but didn't act very impressed at his display, either. I would express my disapproval but more in a "well, why do you want to waste time with this, just keeps us working longer," way.

Now my third foal once, and only once, seriously nipped at me. He got the sharpest correction and sternest lecture of the three of them, and he has kept his teeth to himself since.

[Samotis]

my foal just gets impatient. I know that they have short attention spans. I groom him and pick his feet, 10 minutes max. Then, God forbid I try to brush his mane with a comb, he has a fit. So I just rub his mane with my hand and between his ears until he gives it up. It did today, but I am just getting tired of the same old argument.

I certainly try not to make a big deal about it. I only rub his mane after he is standing still and not pawing or shaking his head. I don't force him.

I am just not sure how much to push and how much to let go and hope he just gets better!!

This is my first time, so I just like to hear what other people do in these situations.

[Rubs Not Pats]

This year was the first time I had one lay down on the shoer and SCREAM. It sounded like the sound that Buggie made before he died. I was totally freaked out. Others stomp. paw, attempt the hoofing, rear, bite, and my all time favorite spin and double barrel at you. All result in a "come to Jesus meeting".

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

Mine puts his body up against me BEGGING for attention. When I brush mom, he wants to be brushed. Without a halter or any restraint he lets you groom his mane, play with his ears, clean out all feet, use a spray bottle on him, worm him and even electric clippers! Needless to say he makes it hard to take a good picture of him or get the stall cleaned without help as he wants to be right there with you. He's been touched and worked with daily everywhere since he was born and he's definately a people person. I haven't seen a tantrum out of him yet, but he's only 7.5 weeks so I'm sure they will come eventually.

[Equilibrium]

This year was the first time I had one lay down on the shoer and SCREAM. It sounded like the sound that Buggie made before he died. I was totally freaked out. Others stomp. pay, attempt the hoofing, rear, bite, and my all time favorite spin and double barrel at you. All result in a "come to Jesus meeting".


Oh yes the "scream" in temper. One of TB colts decided this year he wasn't into any human contact or intervention so when we needed him for certain things, like vet, he would just scream and try to throw himself on the ground. We have a client's mare whose all scream in temper like this, but they are fillies! The colt doing it was a shocker. By the way he has ended up quite a nice chap. He realized human's have certain good benefits as in SCRATCHES.

I am also a firm believer in "come to Jesus" meetings as well for behavoirs listed above. I was putting my other colt's food in his pot last week, so I was bent over, and he decided wow good time to jump on her. So I wheeled around and kicked him in the arse. He came back to me with his head down and soft and lesson learned. I'm sure that sounds harsh, but my size 5 rubbery shoes aren't going to hurt him, quick to the point, let it go. They do learn. The filly that made me learn foals cannot get away with this behavoir. That would be my now 2yo warmblood filly. She always had boundry issues that I wasn't correcting because she was so friendly and outgoing. Once while bringing in her mother she decided to jump on me from behind and knocked me to the ground. That was the end of that.

And yes, their attention spans are limited. So when I'm doing anything with them it's all very short. They do learn. Samtois, you sound like you did the right thing. It all got accomplished in the end and he's learned from that.

Terri

[amdfarm]

Oh yes, foal tantrums, just like toddlers that don't get what they want and w/ about the same attention span... like a gnat.

Stomping feet, pawing, shaking head and as mentioned throwing themselves down are fairly common foal fits. Kicking and striking if they're really pissed. Those are things I won't tolerate, baby or not, it's not acceptable behavior and they either get swatted, kicked or a "come to Jesus" meeting. They learn fairly quickly despite their tiny attention spans.

I had one baby really give it to me when showing me she clearly was NOT happy about what I was doing to her. She was only 2 days old, but cooked for over 400 days and was mad at the world when she came out... ears laid flat and made big girl faces from birth to anything and everything that looked at her, including making one of the alpha mares back off (shocked at that) when she got into her and her mom's space. She was also the size of a two month old and very strong. My son and I went out to put a halter on her so I could work w/ her easily. I did the foal grab and hold while son haltered, but while fighting her to get her stand still she POOPED on me!! All over my gloved (thankfully) hand and arm, that lovely two day old baby poop. She was pissed!! My son could hardly halter her because he was laughing so hard, but I was NOT letting go of her either and I didn't until that halter was on!! Three hours later she had the dang thing off and I was as mad she was at that point and let her be. She learned a thing or two after weaning and is now a very sweet, lovable yearling (in July.)

She was, by far, my naughtiest baby ever!! And both of her parents are VERY, VERY sweet like she is now.

I agree you're doing right by him. He'll give in eventually.

[faluut42]

My trainers foal was, umm, opinionated (nice way of putting it). But because my trainer had a million students she had to get over not wanting her feet picked up and wanting her back legs touched, etc.

If she started throughing a trantrum wed keep doing what ever we where doing until she stopped. It was hard to do especially when you have a weanling trying to kick the crap out of you but it worked.

shes 5 now, still opinionated but has realized that if she doesnt like it, to bad she has to deal with it.

although she doesnt like having back boots on, doesnt try and kick people but will stamp her feet a lot when shes not moving so we just dont put them on except for xc.

[spacely]

we are thinking about weaning soon as he is eating all moms food and barely nursing. (he is almost 3.5 months old)


Even though it doesn't seem to you like he nurses a lot, leave him on his mom as long as possible - at least until 5-6 months. It really is better. I've seen babies weaned at 3 or so months & they don't do as well as those weaned later. The expection was the one weaned at 4 months because he needed to be as Mom was not in great shape. He did ok & actually thrived after weaning. I am not sure how much he was getting from Mom anyway.

As far as the tantrums....my first foal, who is now a 7 year old, will still pitch a fit after a bath. He will literally throw himself on the ground, paw, run, buck, rear, etc after you turn him back out. He hates being bathed but he IS good about getting a bath. It's just after that he decides to tell you about it, even if he's completely dry. He has done that since he was a baby. I ignore it. There's nothing I can do about it now anyway. :rolleyes:

[amdfarm]

Even though it doesn't seem to you like he nurses a lot, leave him on his mom as long as possible - at least until 5-6 months. It really is better. I've seen babies weaned at 3 or so months & they don't do as well as those weaned later. The expection was the one weaned at 4 months because he needed to be as Mom was not in great shape. He did ok & actually thrived after weaning. I am not sure how much he was getting from Mom anyway.

As far as the tantrums....my first foal, who is now a 7 year old, will still pitch a fit after a bath. He will literally throw himself on the ground, paw, run, buck, rear, etc after you turn him back out. He hates being bathed but he IS good about getting a bath. It's just after that he decides to tell you about it, even if he's completely dry. He has done that since he was a baby. I ignore it. There's nothing I can do about it now anyway. :rolleyes:

We have always routinely weaned around 4 months and haven't had any growth problems because of it. Mom's milk isn't all that nutricous for them at that stage either. Nursing is more like a habit more than anything at that age, IMHO. Have weaned several at 3 months due to show schedules and/or pulling mares down too much. By that age, they're all eating grain/pellets of their own and grazing on pasture or have hay to munch on. My friends have done the same thing in 30 years of breeding and haven't had any problems. In fact, they're weaning a colt the end of this month that will be 3 months, because he will be shown by their granddaughter in 4-H next month and needs to be halter broke and used to be handled more w/out mom, bathing, clipping and the like. Will have three weeks to make it happen.

Your 7yo and baths reminds me of my 7yo that I raised from a weaner, but known since birth. He absolutely hates having his face washed. CANNOT stand it. He pouts something awful, makes pitiful faces and tries to put his head in the clouds and shakes his head to get away from the water, wet sponge, rag, etc. Yet you can fly spray his head, ears and face w/out issues. He's such a big baby!! :D And he stands in the rain and gets his head/face wet, but I guess the hose is way different. He has white on his face, too, and it's not always white. So after his bath, he's nice and pretty black w/ a dull brown and dirty white head and face. He looks ridiculous!!

[okggo]

EVERY foal throws tantrums, and if you don't think yours does you just haven't seen it, lol. All it takes is them REALLY wanting to nurse and something/anything to be in the way.

Usually this is mom walking away when baby is trying to drink, and the foal protesting by rearing up on her or doing the head snaking, or even running around her bucking or just taking off at mach 5.

As far as the mane, desensitizing is a great thing, everytime he is doing something else and deeply engrossed (nursing is PERFECT) mess with his mane. I use nursing to deal with problem spots b/c if they are hungry enough they will continue to drink despite me messing with their hooves/legs, whatever...our February foal hated the mane/ears touched and would do the head snaking. We took advantage of every nurse break to mess with her mane and now you can do anything to her head/neck, etc. she absolutely does not care. Or double up, do something he loves and hates at the same time. Scratch his bum and when you have him melting like butter start scratching at the withers too and work your way up, continuing the "good" spots too.

Anyway, he'll get used to it, just take advantage of their two favorite things, nursing and butt scratches :)

[facinated]

Yesterday a woman who breeds lots, and lots of horses told me that she read somewhere that something like 80% of foals have ulcers. Reading all of this I can believe it. We are supposed to be smarter than horses. If you can not come up with a way to deal with a foal you realy need to re-think. Does what you are trying to do realy need to be done right then? Do you have enough competent help? Is it worth risking injury over? If it works well the first time, why keep doing it until a problem comes up? The goal is to pile up positive experiences.

[Kimberlee]

Yesterday a woman who breeds lots, and lots of horses told me that she read somewhere that something like 80% of foals have ulcers. Reading all of this I can believe it. We are supposed to be smarter than horses. If you can not come up with a way to deal with a foal you realy need to re-think. Does what you are trying to do realy need to be done right then? Do you have enough competent help? Is it worth risking injury over? If it works well the first time, why keep doing it until a problem comes up? The goal is to pile up positive experiences.

Do you really want a foal to get away with something, and then think they can get away with it later when they are over 1,000 lbs?

[facinated]

99% of the time the foal , for that matter the horse does not associate the mis-behavior with the correction/training. It only remembers that it was a bad day

[ticofuzzy]

99% of the time the foal , for that matter the horse does not associate the mis-behavior with the correction/training. It only remembers that it was a bad day


I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. If this were the case then the disobedient behaviors would not get better with correction - and they most definitely do! Horses aren't stupid - it's a simple case of "if you do this behavior, this is the response you will get. If you don't like the response, do not do the behavior". Mine get it very quickly. For example - I have NEVER been kicked at or jumped on twice by the same foal.

[sweetwater]

That statement is not accurate at all.

A foal learns and remembers from the first day. It's not like an infant child. They are far more developed.

Gentle consistency from day one will produce a very polite foal. Mine is a yearling now and you can do anything with him. Heck, you could at three months.

[facinated]

My point is that the horse does not associate the punishment with the behavior unless it is almost instant. When you reward it for doing what you want the reward is almost always instant. When you punish the foal with a smack or whatever for kicking at you it is not going to think next time "if I kick I will be smacked" It will move out of your space because you are dominant.

[BBowen]

Horses do not reason with each other, nor can you reason with them. Any discipline has to be swift and then go on about your business. You can bet an unhappy mare will make her displeasure known in a heartbeat with an unruly foal.

My filly kicked me when she was a week old. She got an immediate, open-handed smack on the bottom and I would not let her come back to me for while. She is three years old now and has never lifted a leg to me again.

[ThirdCharm]

Seriously, if foals did not learn from discipline from day one, the species would not have survived in the wild. Baby horses who misbehave get kicked, nipped, etc. Getting their butt smacked if they kick at you or have a hissy fit is not going to give them ulcers. Don't confuse correlation with causation. It is more likely that ulcers result from young, energetic foals being confined in box stalls and exercised on hot walkers so they won't get scuffed up for Halter or Breeding classes, or some other exceedingly unnatural practice that humans put young horses through.


Jennifer

[JoZ]

I think people get bent out of shape over the folks who say punishment must be "immediate" for it to do any good. I think this warning was originally developed to stop people from tying a horse for hours "to think about what he'd done", or to make people think about the action preceding the punishment. For example, if your horse kicks out at you as you let him off the lead, do NOT call him back over to you, catch him, then punish him. The message there is "do not come to me".

But if you are handy to the foal or horse, and there's nothing you have to do first (like put down a glass bottle or something!), you can be pretty sure that your natural "hey knock it off" reaction will be appropriate and understood. If a foal nips at his mom's belly, her head has to snake around to warn him off -- it isn't instantaneous. Just be smart and consistent.

I do think it's a mistake to overdo training with the wee ones... more than a few minutes a day is probably too much. But disciplining firmly and unfailingly during every encounter is what instills polite behavior.

[facinated]

" But disciplining firmly and unfailingly during every encounter is what instills polite behavior."

I feel that stacking the deck and setting things up so the easiest thing for a foal to do is what you want, is more productive, and less stressful than punishing for things you do not want and hoping he will get lucky and do what you want to avoid punishment.
I do not think that I can communicate with a foal on the same level as a mare, anymore than I can comfort a crying human baby by hugging it like it's mom does.

[SandyUHC]

Based on what you are saying then you are not a person I would want to buy a home-raised horse from. Especially if it is named "Sweetums".

[Samotis]

Glad to know this is all normal. He really is a good colt. And as some people have said, overstimulation can be a bad thing. Unfortunatly right now, I do not own the mare anymore and the foal is at the owners house. She is there every day all day and I think she tends to "mess" with him too much sometimes.:no:

I come out to see him 4 or 5 times a week. All I do is take him out alone (next to moms outside stall) and groom him. He bathes, picks his feet up and everything else really well. Just the mane brushing is an issue. I don't try to brush his mane everytimes and sometimes I don't groom him.

It is hard to know what is too much, but I certainly won't let him have a fit everytime I want to brush his mane. He is going to have to be braided in October for inspections, and I don't want that to be a bad experience because I have to fight with him about his mane.

Another Question... Do some foals just have more sensistivity about their ears and mane then others? Did I not "imprint" enough when he was a baby, or is it just something that happens and hopefully overtime he will get better?

Another thing, mom is a maiden and never never never gets after him for anything. He can jump on her, bite her, eat all her pellets, anything, she just stands there! (that is another reason I want to wean at 4 months) He also rarely nurses.

[DownYonder]

FWIW, I couldn't touch my filly's ears until she was a 3 y/o. She did have a terrible fungus in her right ear as a yearling and ended up having to be sedated so it could be cut off, but it took another 2 years before she would let anyone touch her ears. I basically just got fed up with it when she was a 3 y/o and put her in her stall in her halter and said, "OK, Tootsie, here is the deal. Everytime you let me touch your ear, you get a carrot. Everytime you try to sling me off, you get a smack. You decide which is more pleasant." It only took ONE session and I had no more problems touching her ears after that. Now she LOFFS to have her ears rubbed, cleaned out, etc. And I don't even have to bribe her with carrots. :D

[Portia]

A mare who doesn't discipline her foal can be just as bad as a human mom who doesn't discipline her child. It lets baby think s/he can get away with anything. And it makes it just that much more important that the humom and other people around the foal are consistent in their discipline and reward behavior.

Life is much easier if you have a foal who's mom has already taught it a few lessons about good behavior. :)

[amdfarm]

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. If this were the case then the disobedient behaviors would not get better with correction - and they most definitely do! Horses aren't stupid - it's a simple case of "if you do this behavior, this is the response you will get. If you don't like the response, do not do the behavior". Mine get it very quickly. For example - I have NEVER been kicked at or jumped on twice by the same foal.

Agree completely!! Now I have been kicked at more than once by a certain colt of mine, and this was after weaning and in a herd situation. He had a slight food problem and didn't want me near his food (like I eat hay!) After about two "CTJ" meetings, he quickly got over it and decided that NOT kicking at me was in his best interest. He's not tried since and will not even turn his butt to me for scritches anymore. Good boy!!

Samotis... Yes, some foals are more sensitive than others for sure. Many you can touch immediately anywhere and do anything w/, and then some are like the examples given on this thread. I do feel the mare being a natural disciplinarian (sp?) does help and when you've got a mare that doesn't help you out, then you're stuck w/ all the work. The goal is to make a solid foundation so they become solid citizens.

[Samotis]

I do wish Gracie would get a little harsher on him. She has been a great mom, super protective, but it really shocks me that she lets him jump all over her. She has welts and cuts on her back and she does nothing!

I do see this and know that is why the colt is a little the way he is. He lets me do everything else, but is a loon about using a brush to brush his mane.
I may just work with him 1 or 2 times a week with the mane and leave it alone the rest of the time. I will certainly practice braiding him as well before October.

If we make it that far!:winkgrin:

I have certainly learned my lesson having my baby at someone elses farm. Never again. I ride all day at a show barn and then go to my friends house and pretty much everything is done, so I have no time to spend with the baby, as she has already messed with him too much that day!

[catknsn]

Kicking and striking if they're really pissed. Those are things I won't tolerate, baby or not, it's not acceptable behavior and they either get swatted, kicked or a "come to Jesus" meeting. They learn fairly quickly despite their tiny attention spans.

Exactly. It may be a baby but it is still a baby horse and it can break your leg or kick you in the head. I do the same.

It does help a lot if the mare is a strict disciplinarian.

[amdfarm]

You got it. :) W/ a very easy going and non-confrontational mare, it makes you wonder if babies think it's okay to jump or climb on humans and kick us since their moms let them do it to them? WRONG-O!!

Thankfully my mares are good at disciplining their kiddos, but it doesn't stop them from climbing on or kicking at their babysitter. She lets them do it, too. Bad girl... yet she disciplined her own baby when it was her turn to be a mom and babysitter both.

Babies are so fun!!

[dbaygirl]

Horses do not reason with each other, nor can you reason with them. Any discipline has to be swift and then go on about your business. You can bet an unhappy mare will make her displeasure known in a heartbeat with an unruly foal.

My filly kicked me when she was a week old. She got an immediate, open-handed smack on the bottom and I would not let her come back to me for while. She is three years old now and has never lifted a leg to me again.

Umm...well, my filly kicked a tad too close for comfort while I was in the stall with her and her mother. I chased her around the paddock .... like she THOUGHT shewas going to DIEEEEEE...I even took time to fetch a 2 x 4 board in the hayroom, just took a few seconds, ran after her with it and smacked her in the behind (just enough to scare her, not hurt her) and...drum roll....she has NEVER EVER lifted a hind leg at me since. She was, I don't know, about close to one month old when this happened. I was very loving to her after that to make sure she understood that being in my space was a very safe place to be, just don't try to injure me, is all.

Chasing a horse away is something that happens in herds...chasing away from the security in numbers, from protective adults. My mare sure didn't mind. She is a great disciplinarian herself but a very loving mother. Babies need to know their boundaries. I liken it to round penning on a very small scale. They are relieved when it's over and glad to know the rules in order to stay in their comfort zone.

With your baby's grooming issues, I would do it in spurts throughout the day, short sessions and give small treats while you are brushing the mane. Make it an enjoyable experience. You could also brush the mane a few strokes, then move your brush down his chest and onto his legs, taking his attention totally off of his neck, then subtly move up towards his mane again and so on, back and forth, until before he knows it, he's a groomed baby!

[SandyUHC]

My month old colt seemed to be part pirahna. He snuck up on me while I was cleaning the run-in and bit me in the butt. I instinctively swung around and KAWHANNNGGGED him on HIS butt with the plastic manure fork. The memory of his shock and awe and hippity hop retreat still makes me giggle. He was never afraid of me and came up for scritches with "permission" just a minute later, and never offered to bite me again.

He still bit the BO every chance he got, and his older gelding buddy would actually stick his head out and close his eyes to LET him bite, but he knew that I drew the line. It is far more fair to set consistent limits with appropriate discipline than to let things escalate until someone gets hurt.

[EqTrainer]

99% of the time the foal , for that matter the horse does not associate the mis-behavior with the correction/training. It only remembers that it was a bad day

Horses are negative reinforcement learners. It doesn't matter how uncomfortable that makes people, or how much people hate it.. it's a fact and a horse totally understands a smack bottom for kicking - much more so than being circled, backed up, ignored, whatever.

[Samotis]

I got the "phone call" this morning. (I get these alot for silly things he does. My friend is convinced he is evil;))

I guess he pulled part of a plastic bag in the pasture, so my friend decided to walk in there and clean it up. Of course she had her back turned, and what happened? He jumped on her. Just like he jumps on mom.

She calls me in a panic and says he attacked her. Come on. I tried to explain calmly that he does this to mom all the time, and as she doesn't discipline him, he thinks it is ok. I told her never to go in the pasture unless you have something to smack him with, just in case he gets too close.

Not sure if she is ever going to learn:)

I tried the mane brush today, I think we gained some ground. I brushed his mane once, then turned it around and rubbed his back, then his neck and then back to one brush on the mane. It was better, he still wants to have a mini tantrum, but he is improving.:)

[amdfarm]

Not really funny, but funny all the same. :)

And yep, if mom thinks it's okay, then surely it's okay to do to humans, too. Being body slammed by a rambunctious foal is no fun though. Mom may be a jungle gym, but we sure aren't.

Sounds like you're making progress w/ the little man.

[Samotis]

It is so funny because the mare has a cow if I do anything to her when we ride, but baby can jump on her all he wants and thats ok. And he eats all her food too! I thought for sure she would eventually buck up and get mean! Nope!

Mom is certainly a jungle gym!:lol: Lots of marks and welts to prove it!

One day when I was trying to get a video of him in the pasture, I knew that he would try to mug me, so I brought a lead rope in with me. When he got close, I smacked him good on the side and he took off running and didn't try to get too close after that! It didn't hurt him, it was just enough to say, this is my space. He listened!

It is hard to have him at a friends, because we do stuff so different, but she helps me out, so I can't say too much, I just try to give her tips and it is up to her! If she wants to get clobbered, thats up to her!;)

[sid]

And this is why I ADORE the broodmare who disciplines her children and set boundaries for what is and is not acceptable behavior. Makes my job a ton easier and respect is being learned for life, whether it be with other horses or, most imporantly with humans.

Conversely, this is why I work on discipline VERY, VERY early and consistenly with a baby whose dam allows herself to be mauled -- to create those boundaries that must be learned for human safety.

The earlier the better, lest that youngster have a pretty tough road ahead if there's no consistent understanding of what is acceptable behavior.

[amdfarm]

It is so funny because the mare has a cow if I do anything to her when we ride, but baby can jump on her all he wants and thats ok. And he eats all her food too! I thought for sure she would eventually buck up and get mean! Nope!

Mom is certainly a jungle gym!:lol: Lots of marks and welts to prove it!

One day when I was trying to get a video of him in the pasture, I knew that he would try to mug me, so I brought a lead rope in with me. When he got close, I smacked him good on the side and he took off running and didn't try to get too close after that! It didn't hurt him, it was just enough to say, this is my space. He listened!

It is hard to have him at a friends, because we do stuff so different, but she helps me out, so I can't say too much, I just try to give her tips and it is up to her! If she wants to get clobbered, thats up to her!;)

That's cause you're not her precious baby boy! LOL :D No different than human kids that walk all over their parents w/out being disciplined for unacceptable behavior. ;)

Good deal on the lead rope and smacking him!! My friends have this most adorable mule jenny baby, she was born last year. This little girl was born friendly as could be and LOVED attention and scritches. She was so cute it was hard to resist her. Adorable!! But she got to be quite naughty and we had several CTJ meetings on her behalf and mine. When I would finish petting her and walk away, she would pin those big 'ol ear flat back and come after me like she wanted to jump on me and turn me into her human play thing. At first it was funny, because of the way she did it, but then it became impossible for me to be in there w/ her cause she wanted to play and was mad cause I left her. She had other foals to play w/, but apparently I was way more fun. To stop her, I'd turn around, get big, throw my arms up and chase her away. The next couple of days I was out there she was mad at me and ignored me, but quickly got over it and learned that I was not inviting her to invade my space any longer when I walked away from her. After that she was fine. And she's still cute, huggable and friendly as a yearling. Her 2yo full brother is the same way, but he wasn't wanting to make me his jungle gym either, thank goodness.

Hopefully your friend will learn he's not evil. :yes: