how predisposed/genetic are necks?

[pintopiaffe]

can a stallion with a good neck and a mare with a phenomenal neck throw a foal with a horrible neck??? :eek:

:lol:

21 mo is looking LOVELY everywhere but the neck. Really, has NO neck. Pencil neck would be generous. :no: :cry:

Mum: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/pintopiaffe/serenemorning.jpg
Dad: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/pintopiaffe/sons%20of%20the%20wind%20show/softwalk.jpg (his is actually quite a bit nicer these days as his topline has dramatically the past year or two)

Now, I know all about terrible twos... late bloomers... but this guy is SO NICE everywhere else and just has NO neck. :(

[Samotis]

I would be curious about this too!

I have the opposite. My mare is a hunter type TB with a good shoulder, but a pretty thin neck and a tad downhill. Dad has a great neck, but no where near cresty like your stallions. (he is adorable by the way!)

My colt is 3 months and has a super cresty neck! Where the heck did he get that from?

[rideagoldenpony]

I bet he comes around.

I think necks are super heritable. Not to say that breeding isn't a crap shoot -- because it is -- even with the best of stock and plans, you never know for sure which genes will come through. But I would guess that some maturity will improve the situation. ;)

Samotis -- your baby has what I always call "milk neck". IE your mare is giving him LOTS of good milk and he's really packing the weight on his neck! I see that a LOT with my pony foals -- some of them even look sort of "stumpy" as foals, but then once they are weaned, they lose that milk fat look, and have the long pretty necks they were bred to have!

[pintopiaffe]

:yes: this guy had a big, pretty neck as a baby.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/pintopiaffe/sheddingcutoffears.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/pintopiaffe/lukestandcropped.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/pintopiaffe/coldsnowlugh.jpg

Was a way chunk too. Now he's going all elegant and really favoring the Trakehner. Except for the NECK... :lol:

[Samotis]

This was my guy last week...

[pintopiaffe]

OMG, Samtois, what a cutie! I think he's got a super neck. And a great back end!

[Samotis]

Thanks! He is my first attempt at this whole breeding stuff!

He certainly will be able to do lead changes! That is all he does in the pasture. Runs and does perfect lead changes!:D

[risingstarfarm]

Take comfort if the foal was pretty when it was 3 mos. I've had foals that were stunning and then went through some of the most awful growing stages. Fortunately, the beauty returns by 2 or 3, lol.

Regarding necks - yes, I agree that they are very heritable.

[notforyouorme]

Yeah, I've sort of been wondering the same thing.

Here's Mom (whose neck could use some length and a higher set, but still):

http://www.msnusers.com/Petuniaand2007baby/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=41

Here's Dad:

http://www.msnusers.com/Petuniaand2007baby/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=71

and here's my yearling:
http://www.msnusers.com/Petuniaand2007baby/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=68

and

http://www.msnusers.com/Petuniaand2007baby/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=69

and

http://www.msnusers.com/Petuniaand2007baby/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=66

What to do? I still love him anyway, and I think he will jump plenty good for me!

[Samotis]

notforyou...

Your yearling should fill out in the neck. He does have a shorter neck like mom, but my mare has a short neck and she is a phenomenal mover and a great jumper! (not always a bad thing to have a short neck):)

I wouldn't worry. Give it time. Indoctro is a good looking stallion! I am sure he passed some of his talent to your baby!

[okggo]

I don't know about the heredity theory. Some where I read....darn it...let me do some digging, but I think it was a hanoverian article about the heredity of parts and I for the life of me can't remember what it said about necks....

Frankly he'll change 500 more times before he is done, lol. My guys dad has what I would call a short neck, thick, coarse and very prepotent. He is also fairly even front to back with not much of a wither. His dam had a very long neck and was incredibly upright with a very prominent wither. I thought they would balance each other out very nicely and to be honest I'm still not sure what I'm going to get. He has gone through every variety of neck, thick, short, long, thin and has decided rather than growing up he is just going to keep growing longer. He is still slightly butt high (I don't know that he has ever been even from birth) and has pretty much no wither. But I've been told sometimes the IDs don't get withers until they are 6 or even 7 and grow until they are 8.

Anyway, you know what both mare and stallion throw, right? I think he will have a wonderful look all the way around when his parts catch up to one another and finally become one whole being. What a handsome guy!!

[okggo]

Just so you can compare...
http://fruitsnob.home.comcast.net/~fruitsnob/images/may22nd9_JPG.jpg 3 months, nice long neck.

http://fruitsnob.home.comcast.net/~fruitsnob/images/morven3_jpg.jpg I'm embarrased to show this but this was a breed show as a weanling, what IS that thing?

http://fruitsnob.home.comcast.net/~fruitsnob/images/nov1120055_jpg.jpg Where did the neck go??

http://home.comcast.net/~irishsporthorse/images/July27th159_JPG.jpg yearling
http://home.comcast.net/~irishsporthorse/images/howardcounty106_JPG.jpg another yearling (looking fairly decent)

http://home.comcast.net/~irishsporthorse/images/2yoweb1_jpg.jpg 2 y/o semi decent
http://home.comcast.net/~irishsporthorse/images/uppervilleidsh_jpg.jpg 2 y/o doing the TB neck impression

http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii170/okgottago/?action=view&current=Durhamconfo.jpg almost three

http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii170/okgottago/?action=view&current=IMG_6046web.jpg three and really bulked out

http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii170/okgottago/?action=view&current=IMG_6377.jpg 3 y/o neck

http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii170/okgottago/?action=view&current=IMG_5804.jpg saying hi at 3.

I could show you so many more pictures of the neck in various stages and I have NO IDEA what he is going to look like when all is said and done. I actually think he looks pretty good right now, he has bulked up a lot although he is definately too long, but I took him to a breed show and they HATED him so I have no idea. I've really given up caring at this point, when he is 8, then I'll know what I have, lol.

[Waterwitch]

I was always taught that the length from withers to poll should be about the same as the length from withers to the base of the tail - or roughly half of the topline.

In my experience if you look at adult horses that are said to have short necks, many will have the 1/2 and 1/2 proportion described above, but it is the shape and attachment of the neck that makes it look short - ie the width and/or placement of the base of the neck, quality of throatlatch and connection of the head at the poll, length of lower line of neck, shape of the "s" curve of the vertebrae, quality of musculature, etc.

My question is do you want to breed for "longer" or do you want to breed for "better attachment and quality"?

[ASB Stars]

I think that a neckset is a very heritable- and reasonably predictable- trait.

I have mare who has prduced a couple of fabulous colts- but wanted something with a bit higher neckset, so I bred her to my stud who has a stunning neck- in set, length, and structure. Her colt by him got her body- which I love- although his would have been fine- and the studs neck. He is the nicest one she has had, IMHO- ask EqTrainer about Beemer!

[Hampton Bay]

My colt was absolutely gorgeous as a baby, up until at least 7 months when I last saw him as a weanling. I bought him at 17 months, and he had a bit of an upside-down pencil neck. It got worse several months later, but is now getting better. His 4-yo sister has a nice neck. A bit low-set for my taste, but perfect length and not at all upside-down. My colt's neck is set higher than hers, and I have no doubt that it will fill out very nicely by the time he is 3 or 4. He just turned 2. Mom and dad both had nice necks.

My 2-mo filly though... she got her dad's neck. Her mom has a nice enough neck, but it is a tad short and low-set. When ridden, mom's neck looks a ton better than when she is being a lazy pasture bum. Dad though has a perfect neck IMO. Very baroque (he is a Lusitano), high set, arched, perfect length and shape. My filly's neck is very arched, nicely set, and a good length. She has a lot of muscle along the top of her neck, but then again she has a lot of muscle everywhere. It will be interesting to see what kind of changes she goes thru as she gets older, but if she is half as nice as she is now I will be thrilled with her.