WB stallion choice for liver chestnut Arab

[Oakstable]

Stocky mare, over 15H, pure Egyptian bloodlines. Very dark liver and minimal white if any. Any suggestions for a WB stallion who could compliment this color? A foal with flaxen would be super but that's apparently not going to happen in the WB bloodlines.

I believe her sire and dam sire were black.

Target market would be the Arabian dressage circuit.

[Dressage_Diva333]

Check out Alabastro, he is only available using frozen semen, but he is nice, and has flaxen :) His bloodlines are Alabaster/Brentano II/Weltmeyer

http://a-1performancesires.com/hanoverian/alabastro.asp
'

[LockeMeadows]

Why don't you let us know about her strengths and weaknesses, which might help to produce a nicer foal than just looking at color. ;)

There are many, many nice WB stallions, but you need to evaluate what you are trying to produce. Does you mare need a shorter back, longer neck, more bone, etc. Then look at the stallions from there.

[YankeeLawyer]

Rosenthal has crossed well with Arabians. He is black, though, if color is really a paramount concern.

[Oakstable]

Actually the mare looks like a small WB but with a dishy face. She has the typical Arabian croup, but not a table top.

She is a nice mover.

In this market, if we were going to go ahead with her, we'd want to have hopes for something really flashy, not a solid chestnut Arabian, if you get my drift. And I like red heads.

I know Rosenthal has been crossing nicely with Arabians.

[not again]

We are getting tons of chrome from Waldaire who is liver chestnut with four socks and a star. He has a bit of a skunk (rabicano ?) tail and is sabino with white hairs in his mane. Oil spots, roan spots etc. We love chestnuts, if you can't tell from the photobucket album.
Tasker has lots of photos of babies.

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/elrawle/2008%20Foals/

[pintopiaffe]

Doesn't help you in the colour category, but Mannhattan has crossed very well with Arabs. My stallion's sister had an amazing foal by him, as well as others.

Th HA market is pretty hot right now for dilutes. I don't know if that means it'll be oversaturated by the time you're ready to sell... Several of the DD TB's are lovely and would give you a registerable Anglo-Arab. Limet Hurry is really, really nice. I haven't seen him on Arab, but I've seen him on Trakehner, and the result was spectacular.

If I could, I would use Isjemeer-(sp?) Ikopono the Gelders stallion, with my Arab lines. Bright chetty with lots of chrome, though no flaxen.

[Blacktree]

Yeager's sire (Mascarpone) was a very popular to cross to arab mares - and I think that our boy will compliment them as well.

From his trakehner dam side, he has a beautiful dished head, so you shouldn't lose that, plus he is a dilute if you want a chance for some color. He carries a red gene from his father, so crossed w/ a chestnut you will have a good chance of getting a palomino foal.

If you want to see what he produces when crossed w/ a substantial-type, liver chestnut arabian mare, check our website in a few weeks - there's one on the way very soon! :)

[camohn]

Stocky mare, over 15H, pure Egyptian bloodlines. Very dark liver and minimal white if any. Any suggestions for a WB stallion who could compliment this color? A foal with flaxen would be super but that's apparently not going to happen in the WB bloodlines.

I believe her sire and dam sire were black.

Target market would be the Arabian dressage circuit.
I bred an Arab mare I half leased to Grandom and the colt foal sold in utero. The mare owner was so pleased with the foal she bred the mare back to Grandom again and
got a super nice filly. The colt sold to a lady that was a hunter rider on the half arab circuit and wanted to try her hand at dressage...intended to try showing him in both. The colt would be about 3 now. The Arab was a Beau Bey bred mare. If her sire and dam were both black then she cannot carry the agouti ("bay") gene. Grandom is black carrying a recessive red....so 50/50 chance of a black or chestnut foal.I had also bred a chromeless bay mare to Grandom. The 2 Arab foals and the one out of the TB mare were all black, all had consevative facial white ( a star or stripe) and one or 2 socks.

[pintopiaffe]

Yeager is on my short list for my 5/8ths Arab mare who is very WB type.

[Fairview Horse Center]

If you are willing to use frozen, Aram has a bit of a flaxen mane. Search for a recent thread on Aram. His great grandaughter also has some of the flaxen in her mane and tail.

[Dressage_Diva333]

If arn't too worried about color, Rodioso (Rohdiamont/Furioso II/Praefectus xx) has crossed well with Arabians, as has Wonderful (Weltmeyer/Bolero/Argus).

Personally, I have bred my Arabian mare to Bas Blanc (Artichaut/Feu Sacre/Corrent), he definetly throws chrome! Although my Half Arab filly is grey, my colt by Bas Blanc is out of a solid bay TB mare, and the colt is chestnut with a blaze and 4 high white socks. See his website here: http://www.basblanc.com/

[YankeeLawyer]

What about an anglo-arab? At the recent Raleigh show, an anglo-arab mare did very well in the junior division. Her name is Tsarina Bint RII:

http://dressagedaily.com/2008/dd_200806/dd_20080601-raliegh-4.html

If you are interested in going that route, some of BlondeFilly's stallions might be an option, for color flash.

My good friend's arab mare is in foal to Rascalino. But that foal will likely be black.

[cheekyhorse]

Trakehner/Arab is a pretty popular cross, as you maintain that flair. There are so many I could name, but without seeing your mare, did you post pics of her, or am I blind? :D

[Joie]

You have several Trakehners to choose from.

I have an Anglo-Trakehner mare by Hadrian who is both very large (so some refinement via an arabian mare might be nice), and VERY fancy in both movement and color. She is a chestnut sabino and flaxen. Plus, she has those lovely oil spots and her coat is very dark and metallic this season. Hadrians owner is really excellent to work with, too.

I also have a chesnut sabino and flaxen Donnerkeil daughter. I love this mare...she's the best mare. GORGEOUS head, too. Amazing mare...but I know the folks who have Donnerkeil aren't really keen on AI anymore. You might call them, though. He was sadly underused, IMO. My mare is amazing. Did I say that already??

Of course, Oskar II seems to produce just amazing foals with definate WOW factor out of a variety of mares as well. He is on my list for next year.

Then there is Sinatra, who I believe is only offered via frozen, but don't quote me on that. I also couldn't find an active website, but I didn't look very hard. And finally there is Hilife...who does have a website but I was never able to contact the owner. I called and e-mailed several times and received no response.

[Oakstable]

Sinatra is with Anita Hunter in the Northwest. Apparently he is a riding stallion, hence only available frozen.

Hilife is a major cutie. He needs to be promoted.

[poneez]

Our young stallion Outrageous Fortune has had exquisite foals out of arab mares, the oldest of which are now four years of age and starting their own careers in the ring. "Ray" is a stunning chestnut frame overo with flaxen mane and tail, by the fantastic Trakehner stallion Hennessey, and out of a stunning mare by the Selle Francais stallion, Perrel (Warioto Farms).

He has thrown his extravagant movement, talent over fences, and terrific temperament to each of his kids. He most certainly provides an opportunity for chrome!

Photos of the "Raykids" can be found at:

www.baystarfarms.ca/outrageousfortuneoffspring.htm

In particular, the second, third, fifth and last youngsters listed are each out of full arab mares. We do have a couple of updated photos of some of his older offspring which are also available, but have yet to be posted to the site. We've been delighted to have a couple of very nice, accomplished arab mares book to him for this season.

Outrageous Fortune's own page can be found at:

www.baystarfarms.ca/outrageousfortune.htm

There have been some superb recommendations on this thread!

[Lyss]

I have a Trakehner/Arab mare, whose dam was a dark, if not liver, chestnut. I bred the dam to the Trakehner stallion, Happy Hour, who is black. My mare, the resulting foal, is a gorgeous, liver with dapples and a "flame" colored mane and forelock. Everyone comments about her color. But more importantly, she has a super work ethic, correct conformation, three good gaits with a very good canter and elasticity, plus a great brain - she also has a very good hind end, but her Arabian dam was also good in that department. Now that mare, I bred, not on purpose, but that's another story, to Rosario, who is also solid black. That resulting filly, now a yearling, shed out as a weanling to a dark chocolate liver, but shed out this spring to a lighter chestnut and is going flaxen with her mane and tail - with her unique blaze and diagnol socks, she is the eye catcher (her blaze goes to under her lip, so who knows, a sabino characteristic?). If her color "ages" like her dam, she will likely shed out darker next year, but I think she'll keep the flaxen mane and tail as it is much lighter then her dam's. But again, the more important factors are that this filly too has a superb temperament, correct conformation with a great hind end as well, with an improvement on the already good movement of her dam with even more elasticity and swing. Rosario is a big boy and he also added length of leg and bone. The Arab granddam (Madam), my Trak/Arab mare (Mimosa) and her GOV filly (Rowan aka "Lucy") can all be seen on my signature link.

[flshgordon]

One of our posters "Cyndi" has the most gorgeous WB-arab cross ever. He is by Frohwind and wow-oh-wow is he amazing :eek:

I'd breed an arab mare to him in a heartbeat

[pintopiaffe]

Briar? I've not seen Arab X crosses of his... but he is pretty *wow*.

[Mozart]

Rosenthal has crossed well with Arabians. He is black, though, if color is really a paramount concern.

Once again, great minds and all that ;)
My first thought was Rosenthal too.

Now I don't really know anything about crossing Arabs and WB's but wouldn't any of the modern leggy refined types work?

[YankeeLawyer]

Once again, great minds and all that ;)
My first thought was Rosenthal too.



Rosenthal has crossed beautifully with arab mares, imo.

[Fairview Horse Center]

If you are really looking to compliment her dark liver color, Morgans are often liver with flaxen manes.

[Cold Spring Farm]

I have one of those Rosenthal half-arabs -- and he is very cool!

But if you are reeeeally wanting orange -- how about Werbellin or Fuerst Impression? I believe Werbellin has had a few fabulous WB/Arab crosses.....and FI is just a LOVELY horse who I imagine could produce phenomenal crosses. (Don't know about the chrome factor, however!) There are also some chestnut half-arabs by DeLaurentis that are QUITE nice (google Tobruk Farm.) Of course, with FI and DeLaurentis -- you can count on Angela offering excellent counsel and telling you straight up which might be better for your mare.

[Oakstable]

The mare is in a dispersal sale. She is Egyptian but does not have the snakey long neck and the dramatic face. Since I am a longtime WB breeder, her look is pleasing to me.

I have never owned a Morgan, nor an Arabian. But I like them.

I've long been enchanted with the idea of breeding a really nice horse with the embellishment of flaxen. It seems pretty hard to get in the warmblood world.

Retirement from this game is not far off. I've been doing this for almost 20 years but it is an addiction so who knows.....

[Kneigh]

What about Welcome? He's a dark chestnut (no flaxen though). If you go to his foals page there is a photo of one out of an Arab mare.

http://www.unbridledcreative.com/rollingstonefarm/WelcomeS.shtml

[Dressage_Diva333]

I personally love the Arabian X Warmblood, so I would suggest going with a WB stallion over a Morgan. Morgan's really arn't my thing.

[faluut42]

Wonderful has that strong chestnut Weltmeyer gene and he already has one WB/Arab that has done extremely well at shows.

I think they are giving a discount for Arab mare owners. Give Violet Jen a call. shes a SUPER nice lady. www.1derful.com

[cdalt]

Staccato (by Idocus) has produced some very nice 1/2 Arab crosses. He is black with some white markings but does carry a recessive chestnut gene. He produced a chestnut colt with lots of white with my dark bay mare (but no flaxen). His website is: www. terraceiafarm.com (I think?!)

[sid]

Argosy, though Hanoverian, has complimented Arabs nicely as he is 1/4 Angloarab. He's a non-fading black with minimal white.

[Freebird!]

A friend of mine bred her Arabian to Gold Luck, several years ago. The resulting filly, Galadria was beautiful, and her mare became the first Arabian to be entered in the Hannoverian Main mare Studbook.

I like how all of his ofspring look so much like him.

[jcotton]

Frohwind and Caletino are suggestions - good minded and confirmation.
I would rather a brain and confirmation over color.

[Oakstable]

Caletino?

Of course, a good brain is more important than color.

If you are going to breed horses, you start with good brains and movement and confirmation. Then if a flashy color helps get the sale closed, so much the better.

I recall a story of a foal being presented to GOV a few years ago. It appeared to be buckskin and a buyer was ready to take it home, but it was a transitional color and was going grey.

[jcotton]

Caletino has crossed well with arabians. Go to www.Quailhurst.com to see and get references. There are quite Caletino half arabs doing well at AHA Sporthorse nationals in dressage.
If I had a purebred arab mare I would breed to him. But I am starting with what I have, a holst/s.f to an arabian stallion.

[Oakstable]

Caletino looks nice. Someone not on the COTH radar screen.

Anyone know what he is doing now?

[pegasus44]

Frohwind and Caletino are suggestions - good minded and confirmation.
I would rather a brain and confirmation over color.

Frohwind has a Half-Price breeding available (www.shnpayback.com), has had more than a few great Half-Arabs. There are photos of them on his website. A foal by him is eligible for Payback prize money too.

His website is http://www.woodridgefarm.com/

[jcotton]

From what Quailhurst webpage says Caletino should be showing PSG this year, but sending an email to Quailhurst would be the best way to find out. Assuming the webpage may or may not be accurate.

[Sunny's Mom]

There is a cute picture of an Ironman X arabian mare in the H/J forum right now. So that might be worth a look.

I've seen a gorgeous Rosenthal gelding - 2 year old - too.

[pegasus44]

There are some gorgeous WB cross babies in the Payback ads

http://www.shnpayback.com/Ads.html

[Sunny's Mom]

I have one of those Rosenthal half-arabs -- and he is very cool!



He's exactly the one I was thinking of. If I wasn't giving my half arabian another six months to show me some improvement I probably would have purchased him!

[Sunny's Mom]

Caletino has crossed well with arabians. Go to www.Quailhurst.com to see and get references. There are quite Caletino half arabs doing well at AHA Sporthorse nationals in dressage.
If I had a purebred arab mare I would breed to him. But I am starting with what I have, a holst/s.f to an arabian stallion.

Which stallion are you using?

[jcotton]

I am using Day Dream Arabians Showgun PGN.
My mare is a Landslide (Ladykiller) holsteiner and the S.F. damside, I know nothing about. She is 16.2, not a huge mare but big enough. I have bred to my appendix stallion and got two nice foals that are doing dressage. Decided to go for more refinement and this seems to be her niche. The foal that was born this year by Showgun is short backed, neck that comes out of his shoulder very nicely and hindend that serves him well. And lots of legs, so he will be tall but not heavy. Very friendly, I can't walk out to get pictures because he is in my face checking out the camera, being very lovable.

[TouchstoneAcres]

For Arabian dressage, and I assume you mean hald Arabian if you're looking at WBs, how could you miss with a Lipizzan cross? The ones I have seen are beautiful. My stallion for instance would add bone and a nice round croup, good topline and neck. As for collecting ability, Lips are made for it. The steady workmanlike disposition is helpful too.

[allanglos]

One of our posters "Cyndi" has the most gorgeous WB-arab cross ever. He is by Frohwind and wow-oh-wow is he amazing :eek:

I'd breed an arab mare to him in a heartbeat

I have seen several Frohwind half arabs, and they are stunning.

He is available half price (as are several other very nice WBs and TBs) at www.SHNpayback.com

The foal by any of these stallions would then be eligible for prize money at Sport Horse Nationals. The amount this year is over $40,000 and will likely be more in the years to come.

[Sunny's Mom]

I am using Day Dream Arabians Showgun PGN.
My mare is a Landslide (Ladykiller) holsteiner and the S.F. damside, I know nothing about. She is 16.2, not a huge mare but big enough. I have bred to my appendix stallion and got two nice foals that are doing dressage. Decided to go for more refinement and this seems to be her niche. The foal that was born this year by Showgun is short backed, neck that comes out of his shoulder very nicely and hindend that serves him well. And lots of legs, so he will be tall but not heavy. Very friendly, I can't walk out to get pictures because he is in my face checking out the camera, being very lovable.

Shogun is very cute over fences, but I think I prefer his father (Showkayce) for the size. Shogun is only pony sized, I would think with a 16'2 mare you will get about a 15'2 or 15'3 horse - BUT you could get very unlucky and get a 14'3 or 15 hand hony. That would undoubtably be MY luck - haha!

Now we need some pictures of your 2008 foal!!!!

[allanglos]

If you consider an Arabian stallion that is flaxen, here is a sport type one:)

[jcotton]

Sunny's Mom,
At this point I think my Showgun baby will be close to 15-16 hands, he has very long canon bones. Showgun is more of the body type for dressage, not saying that Showkayce couldn't do the same job. I don't mind riding ponies or smaller horses, I am showing a welsh cob that is 14.2, at 1st level, schooling 2nd. Also riding two greenies - a holst/lip/tb that is 15 hands, as well as a 3/4 tb that is 16 hands. I think very highly of Carol Steppe and Daydream arabians, she is very knowledgeable in her bloodlines, conformation.

Now pictures of my foal, that could interesting, I can take them and get them loaded in my computer, getting them to the Coth thread is another deal. I'll see what I can do.

[pegasus44]

Did you know that Showgun and Showkayce are both in the Payback program? (That means your Showgun babies are eligible for the cash too!)
Carol also donated the Showgun son Jump the Gun...those first 2 sold pretty quickly at half price!

[jcotton]

Since there is no prize money in USDF, you gotta find it somewhere, might as well be in a breed organization.
I'm excited about this foal and can't see what the full sibling will be next April.

[ASBJumper]

Well, I dunno about flaxen, but... if you want FLASHY - breed to Balta'Czar. www.jumpstartfarm.com

I bred my 15.1hh solid liver chestnut Saddlebred mare to him last year, and just got a phenomenal colt. Two matching jagged high white socks in back, a crescent star and a fat snip and two lip spots... he's fabulous! Did I mention my mare doesn't have a *single* white hair on her entire body??! :eek:
I still can't believe how prepotent Balta'Czar is... I am seriously contemplating a re-breed next year. :D

Here he is! http://sports.webshots.com/album/563722630UXDbeM

[Oakstable]

Nice baby. The mare I am considering is the same color as your mare, and zero white.

I have nibbles on some sale horses and want to see those through before making any commitment on a mare.

[cyndi]

I just saw this thread and saw flshgordon mentioned my 1/2 Arab colt, Faxxsimile, by Frohwind. I bought him from his breeder, but I also have two other Frohwind offspring, out of a half Arab mare I showed for years. The older one is the best horse I have ever owned - smart, keen, a total workaholic and loves, loves, her job. She showed second level last year and is schooling third level. I just started her younger sister under saddle myself and it's been a total 'non-event."

"Faxx" is probably the nicest horse I have ever owned. He has an older full sibling who was Top Ten in hand at the Arabian Sporthorse Championships. Faxx himself won both the open and amatuer Sporthorse Half Arabian geldings In Hand Championships at our Regional Sporthorse Championships. He was the HA Supreme Champion and had the highest in-hand score of all the in-hand entries, 111 horses. He was 2 at the time. He'll be competing again this year, and then he'll be started under saddle. He's already doing all the ground work and he's just a big, (16H) sweet goof.

Here are some pics of him:
http://www.donerailfarm.com/faxxsimile.html

I would take another Frohwind in a heart beat.

[Altamont Sport Horses]

Without knowing what this mare looks like I'll recommend you take a look at the approved Trakehner stallion Oskar II. He has produced some lovely babies and with the Trakehner type he should cross nicely on Arab mares. He also throws a good deal of bling. He has face white and four high whites. I would think that this cross would very much appeal to the Arab sport horse community. http://www.aquafarms.net/Oskar.html

On this page you can find a chestnut Oskar filly out of an Arab mare named Patty. http://www.aquafarms.net/PhotoGallery.html

[allanglos]

Since there is no prize money in USDF, you gotta find it somewhere, might as well be in a breed organization.
I'm excited about this foal and can't see what the full sibling will be next April.

The over $40,000 raised so far pays out in the following classes (HA/AA = Half Arab/Anglo Arab. SHIH = Sport Horse In Hand. SHUS = Sport Horse Under Saddle):

* Purebred SHIH Stallions, Open
• HA/AA SHIH Mares, Open
• Purebred Hunter Hack , Open
• HA/AA Hunter Hack, Open
• Purebred Training Level Dressage, Open
• HA/AA Training Level Dressage, Open
• Purebred SHUS, Open
• HA/AA SHUS, Open
• A/HA/AA Carriage Pleasure Driving Working
• Grand Prix Dressage
• Arabian Open Working Hunter
• HA/AA Open Working Hunter
• HA/AA SHIH Geldings, Open
• Purebred Open Jumpers
• HA/AA Open Jumpers
• A/HA/AA Prix St. Georges Dressage

All Arabian/Half Arabian/Anglo Arabian get sired by stallions donated to the program are eligible to win the prize money.

The stallions are listed at www.SHNpayback.com