The Cost of Grand Prix (long)

[aquafilly]

Hello all,

A conversation with my mother the other day brought up the cost of horses and the cost of my ultimate riding goals. How much does it cost to reach Grand Prix level?

A little back story first. I'm in college and I'm way overdue for picking a career focus and sticking to it. I said that I need to make a boat load of cash to fund my dreams. So actually enjoying my job is an afterthought. As it stands now, I've worked a few dead-end retail jobs and HATED them all. However, when I clock out at the end of the day, all that stress dissolves away on the drive to the horse stable.

Soon I'll be moving my mare to a small stable where board is only $125. It's field board and there isn't a riding ring. I'll be practicing out on the trail. Gas will run me about $200 a month to visit her daily. Lessons around here are $40 for a half hour, but I'd like an hour long lesson and I'll need to find an instructor to drive to the farm. Once I'm out of school in another 3 years, I'll be able to afford twice weekly lessons. Lets say I got lucky and found an instructor for $60 an hour. That would be $480 a month in lessons. If I'm feeling extravagant and wanted to board at a barn with an indoor and a nice dressage centered following, I'm looking at $475 or more a month. Did I mention the rising gas prices?

So this is where my mother and I had our disagreement. She said I need to do what I love. Well what I love is lavishing attention on my mare, but she doesn't pay very well.... What I'd like to do will net me $30,000-$40,000 a year. My planned career that will be bearable will bring home roughly $75,000-$90,000 a year. All this BEFORE taxes.

Worst case scenario, I could be spending $14,872 a year on my horsey habit. This math is based on board, gas, vet, farrier, wormer, bi-weekly lessons. This doesn't include rent wherever I choose to live upon graduation. But sinking money into rent is a bad idea if you ever want to purchase your own home. I'm dying to get my own place so that I can stop paying silly rates on board. Having my own indoor would be a treat, but that's probably just a pipe dream! ;)

Anyway, I don't live extravagantly, but I still don't see how its possible on $30,000 a year. Yet the higher realms of dressage can't only be available to the rich, can it? Prove me wrong and my mother right. It wouldn't be the first time, LOL! Also, I'm very against getting married. Unless I had an iron clad prenuptial that made it so I got absolutely everything (which probably isn't fair). But I'd always have this small nagging worry in the back of my head that we'd divorce and I'd lose all I'd worked for. At the risk of starting another topic completely, have you ever noticed how hard it is to do well in this country on one income? Houses seem priced for 2 income families.

Sorry this is so long winded! Do you have Grand Prix dreams? How are you finding a way to pay for things? I completely forgot about the purchase price of horses as you go through the levels. Thanks for your input! :)

[charismaryllis]

-snif-

sorry, i have no answers for you, but can i just say i love your mother?? :yes:

[Ashby]

You're quite right that it may take two incomes to afford a house, much less a horse. As you note, our tax laws are already rather demanding, and upcoming political changes may render them actually confiscatory, so between state, federal, local, and sales taxes, you may see half of your income going away. Believe me, it is not fun slaving away at a job of any sort, much less one you can barely tolerate, only to see half of your income vanish before you even touch it.

What I am trying to say is that if you are earning $90K you may come home with only $45K, depending on where you live and how clever you can be with tax planning. You spend $15K on the horse. So you will be trying to live on $30K. The chances are you will never own a house, much less property to keep the horse on.

Your mother is right that life is too short to spend it on a career you will learn to hate. And you're right that the lifestyle you want probably can't be afforded on $30-40K per year, particularly if you are devoting fully half of that to a horse; that would leave you with $15K to live on, which is below the federal poverty level in some parts of the US.

Instead, why don't you do what you would love from 9 to 5 (please don't let it be horses!), even if it only pays $40K, and then in the evenings or on weekends start a home business to bring in extra money? Many of us who are trying to afford a two-person lifestyle on one income do something extra to earn money. Quite often it turns into the main source of income.

Also, your feelings about marriage may change when you fall seriously in love with someone and/or when you get into your late twenties and the hormones start percolating; this is what happened to me and to millions of others. The species would not have been perpetuated if this weren't the case.

[slc2]

I think it's a real shame you are against marriage. Marriage is one of the chief ways you can hope to make your dreams come true.

I don't mean having a sugar daddy or milking someone for money.

I mean having a partner who supports you emotionally, who dreams the same dream you dream, who cheers you on, who's ready to drive the truck to that far away show if you're tired after work, and who may share some of the expenses of daily living with you, while you finance the horse part.

Haven't you ever heard of a prenuptual agreement? People do it all the time. THey also agree how much of their incomes to pool, and how much to keep separate.

But if you find someone who you're really a team with, that person will help you in ways you never even imagined. And you don't have to get married, if you are really worried about finances. Just don't get married. It's still nice to have a partner, and it can be pretty damned impossible to get everything done without one.

Most amateur riders I know would love to do what you want to do. Many I know have tried for many, many years, and are not much closer to doing it than they were 20 yrs ago. It's not easy. A few years ago (it's probably changed slightly) I read that 92% of the dressage tests ridden in the USA in competition are ridden at intro and training level(included dressage tests ridden in eventing competitions). The numbers show that not many people crawl up that ladder to Grand Prix.

You will need to work in a ring with good footing, not a trail, and not by yourself, but very often - very often - with an instructor who has done what you want to do - and has done so many many times, with more than one horse, for many years, and who can communicate with you. You will need a special horse to learn on. They are not easy to find.

And...now is the time. You're young, you're healthy, you're flexibly physically and eager to learn and full of ambition. Now is the time to learn the dressage, not to trail ride at a cheap barn. Sorry.

A little background on the job thing. Some of my friends struggle to compete in dressage on salaries of 75,000-100,000 dollars a year. They are always making hard choices, and they very often can't go to this show or that because they have to work - they also can pay 500-700 dollars to go to a show, and not be able to go at the last minute (no refunds). The 75,000-100,000 dollar jobs are definitely a 'double edge sword', you get more money, but it's never quite enough to afford really super horses, alot of lessons, or the time to get out and do things...jobs like this are demanding mentally, time consuming, and you have little mental or physical energy - or TIME...left over after you go to those jobs.

Yet you can be sure that working in retail if it pays low, may not give you enough money for shows, horses and instruction.

And yet, people with the higher paying jobs DO manage. Some manage very well. People DO pull this off.

How?

They are very, very organized, determined, and focused. Every choice they make leads to their goal, not away from it. They don't blow off riding to go shopping, they don't blow off training to go for a trail ride, etc.

Horses, nice ones, dressage horses, are now costing around 30,000-50,000 dollars. These aren't top horses - they're nice youngsters with little training. They need training, and their owner has to be able to either do it himself with lessons, or pay someone to do it (the cost isn't much different in either case).

Soooo? What is one to do?

Well.....

'Getting to Grand Prix' - what does that mean? Riding a friend's average but well trained horse at a local show, after leasing the horse for a few years and learning how to get the movements and figures out of this well trained and easy to ride horse? Getting blue ribbon in a small local class because there are only 1-2 people in the class?

Or is 'Getting to Grand Prix' a very different thing for you - spending years coming up thru the ranks, training one average horse after another, selling each one for a little more money to finance the next horse to be purchased...while trading work for lessons in a working student arrangement 20 hrs a week, working a part time job, 30-40 hrs a week, probably in retail or food service, maybe even attending college at the same time......and planning on showing at some of the biggest competitions in the USA in 10-15 years, qualifying for national championships, even being put on the developing rider list and being considered for the American team.....It would mean traveling every weekend, working very hard, getting that degree while riding and working...it's VERY hard.

'Getting to Grand Prix' is SO different for different people....it can mean going around a ring with the instructor guiding you in how to ride an easy trained horse you lease, or it can be something far, far more complicated, only yiou can really define yiour goal.

[Dancinglite2]

'Getting to Grand Prix' is SO different for different people....it can mean going around a ring with the instructor guiding you in how to ride an easy trained horse you lease, or it can be something far, far more complicated, only yiou can really define yiour goal.


Sure does.

Spending $250.00 and a lot of determination and 10 years later there you are.

[slc2]

Most people spend more than 250 dollars to get to grand prix.

Lessons, board, training, purchasing horses that probably usually cost more than 250 dollars, tack, transportation, farrier bills, veterinary bills, supplements, and when showing, lodging, entry fees, membership fees, stabling and supplies.

Probably more than 250 dollars. Most people take riding lessons somewhere on the way to Grand Prix.

[xQHDQ]

It takes just as much money to care for a training level horse as it does to care for a Grand Prix horse. And, unfortunately, it takes a lot of money to have a horse.

Take it one year at a time. You're not going to jump from a greenie to GP in a couple of years. Keep going for your goals but enjoy the journey. A lot can happen in a year - gas prices could drop, you could get sick, you could fall madly in love with a really rich guy, your horse could get sick, a BNT could see you ride and give you a dream job... See where I'm going with this?

Study in school what you want to study. When you graduate, look for a job that looks interesting and pays what you can live on (or move in with mom) - you never know where it will lead and its not permanent - you can always get a new job; you can always move to a new town, you can always get a divorce. (The only thing you cannot take back is having a child.)

You should be able to calculate how much board costs, how much showing costs (and you don't need to show to ride GP), how much rent for you costs, and food, and gas, and training. And, you need to have savings and retirement. Don't be burden on society or your parents just to have horses - that's not fair. Too many kids today think they are entitled to things - no, you have to earn it, and you have the power to earn it or to loose it.

Good luck.

[Dancinglite2]

purchasing horses that probably usually cost more than 250 dollars,

That was his cost-$250.00


board,tack,farrier bills, veterinary bills, supplements,

All costs I would pay out anyways


and when showing, lodging, entry fees, membership fees, stabling and supplies.

Had my own trailer, never boarded over ( opps once). Membership fees ? would have paid them anyways but you are right on the entry fees.

training

Did all my own.

Most people take riding lessons somewhere on the way to Grand Prix.

Yes I took 3 lessons

[pintopiaffe]

I have Grand Prix dreams, and TL pocketbook.

So far, I have chosen jobs that barely paid the bills, but at the end of the day left me satisfied and able to live with myself. Every once in awhile I look around down where I grew up and wonder why I'm so stupid to be making $35k a year. BUT--it is important to me to say that at least I showed up for the battle every day. I might not WIN every day, but I showed up. For ME PERSONALLY, making a small difference with my time and effort is more important than a savings account.

Where does that leave me horse-wise? It leaves me with the most wonderful stallion in the WORLD who is putting up with my journey to get him to FEI. Twice as long as it *should* have taken, with someone with an indoor, someone with skill... but it's MY journey and the learning has been incredible and life altering.

I ride in a 30+yo saddle which His Princeness deigns to accept. I don't have a real ring, I have two marked out grass areas. I don't have fancy tack or clothes. Sometimes I think many CotHers have no idea what planet I live on.

But I have the PASSION. And my wonderful, kind, honest horse has piaffed with me once, so I know we can do it again.

I have had to give up my timelines--this year in particular because of the terrifying economy. That doesn't mean I have had to give up my GOALS. We WILL make at least PSG.

And the amazing part is how the youngsters are coming along. Ever so much faster and more correctly because of the patience, honestly and kindness of the stallion. HE teaches ME, then I can teach them...

At the end of it ALL... you can't take ANY of it with you. If you made a difference in one way or the other... and if you had PASSION... for Art... for dance, for dressage... to ME, that is what is important.

I am hopelessly poor... and yet, mostly, deliriously happy. MY mother often comments that she is sooo happy for me because I know JOY. I dont' necessarily know *comfort* as far as monetary issues, but I know JOY in the deepest fibers of my being. :sadsmile:

[flshgordon]

The short version---it's going to be very, VERY difficult to do what you want to do on a salary of 30-40K. Heck it's going to be difficult just to support any type of horse habit on that budget since you will be boarding and relying on others for lessons and the care of your horse.

If you really have big dreams, the money will have to come from somewhere so unless you plan on marrying well or winning the lottery, I'd be planning on the higher paying job.

[Surviving the Dramas]

Aquafilly:

I too am at College, studying a double degree of Law (will specialize in Commercial/Corporate law) and Arts (Political Science) no idea what that equates to in the US. My mother sounds very similar to yours and has provided me with a lot of support on a small income. When the almost perfect horse came on the market that was (sort of) within our price range, we jumped, my parents selling part of their retirement policy in order to get him. It wasn't that he cost a fortune, actually I think half of the COTHers would fall out of their seats if they knew the price, it was the fact we simply had no spare money. I love my parents :sadsmile:

I do however have a partner, who is an Engineer, and provided he has his hobby/toys (mainly bikes and boats) he is happy(:eek:) for me to spend money on my horses. I don't think that I could do this without him as he supports me both financially and emotionally, and is helluva handy with a brush come show day!! :lol:

Fortunately the cost of keeping horses in NZ is significantly cheaper than you are experiencing. I have grazing with an arena (outdoors- barely anything is indoors over here) and boxes plus turnout for $16USD per horse. I have weekly lessons at $30USD (though do work for my instructor in exchange for lessons quite often which cuts costs hugely) plus I get clinics with international instructors averaging $250USD every 6 weeks or thereabouts. My biggest problem is the cost of fuel which is the equivalent of $7.72USD/gallon over here (we pay over $2NZD/Litre).

My parents and I worked out pretty early on that in order for me to reach my dreams I needed to get a job which could afford for me to reach them, hence the pending Law degree :lol:. Money in this sport really does make the world go round. If you don't have the financial backing, you are fighting an uphill battle all the way. I am earning money by schooling horses for other people and selling on behalf, this barely covers the cost of my instruction.

I'm hoping to compete successfully at GP in 18months from now, currently I am about 1 month off my PSG start on him. I traveled to Australia last summer to spend some time training over there, all at my own expense, and having to sell my up and coming star in order to do so. He is now doing exceptionally well under his new rider and we have sworn to never sell on the most talented of our youngsters. I keep 3-4 in work in order to sell one every 6 months to afford to compete.

Basically it depends on the level of determination you have to reach your end goals. If you really drive, and do whatever you can to get there, then I believe it is possible. I will fall out of bed at 7 every morning to let my boys out of their boxes, get to College to my lectures, back to my grazing to ride at 3.30, finish riding, mucking out/feeding etc by 7, get home and eat, study for a few hours, then fall into bed, and wake up the next morning ready to start all over again!! And you know what, I still love doing it :D

[merrygoround]

Sure does.

Spending $250.00 and a lot of determination and 10 years later there you are.

I think, you dropped a comma, and a zero or two :)

[egontoast]

I think, you dropped a comma, and a zero or two

It also depends on how many decades ago that was. ;)

[slc2]

I doubt a lot of people got to grand prix 40 or 50 years ago for 250 dollars.

I think claims that it's cheap and all you need is determination (and 10 years) really does a disservice to young people trying to get an accurate idea of what they need to do to reach the upper levels today, and before they're too senile to appreciate it.

But it STILL depends on what the OP meant by 'reaching GP'. Competitively, in national or international standings? Riding around and trying different movements on a trained horse during a single riding lesson?

Well, I rode around 25 years ago on a trained, easy going horse during a lesson doing Grand Prix movements. And I hate to say it, but that wasn't very hard, all you have to do is be good at following directions and be able to ride a little, partly because there is no judge there telling you what's wrong, if the horse basically does the stuff you wouldn't know what was going wrong and probably would be pretty happy; it also makes a huge difference if you do a movement and then stop and walk and then try something else, rather than do it all together in a test. Someone else got up on the horse and reschooled it after I rode it, I didn't have to do that, and that is a lot harder than just getting up on a horse and doign some tricks once.

And there's a whole lot of ground between that and training one's own horse, competing, and alot of the other goals people want to reach.

And...unfortunately...there are plenty of little dressage shows you could go to and get a blue ribbon in a GP class with a very low score and some very incorrect work; you can even win some national awards that way. When asking 'what sort of GP do you want to get to', one would also unfortunately have to ask if this is at a local or regional level, 'how correct do you want it to be?'

[slc2]

"Sometimes I think many CotHers have no idea what planet I live on."

I think most of the CotHers live on the exact same 'planet' as you. If all those polls are any indication, the majority of people on COH aren't incredibly wealthy and make a lot of sacrifices to have horses, lessons, etc.

[Dancinglite2]

I doubt a lot of people got to grand prix 40 or 50 years ago for 250 dollars.

Probably a lot cheaper then also, but no I don't go back that far. ps you must be ancient.. :eek:

I think claims that it's cheap and all you need is determination (and 10 years) really does a disservice to young people trying to get an accurate idea of what they need to do to reach the upper levels today, and before they're too senile to appreciate it.

I thing your whole statement is a disservice to the hard work it takes to achieve this goal. I was lucky. Found a decent horse at an extraordinary price and made it all work.


Well, I rode around 25 years ago on a trained, easy going horse during a lesson doing Grand Prix movements. And I hate to say it, but that wasn't very hard, all you have to do is be good at following directions and be able to ride a little, partly because there is no judge there telling you what's wrong, if the horse basically does the stuff you wouldn't know what was going wrong and probably would be pretty happy; it also makes a huge difference if you do a movement and then stop and walk and then try something else, rather than do it all together in a test. Someone else got up on the horse and reschooled it after I rode it, I didn't have to do that, and that is a lot harder than just getting up on a horse and doign some tricks once.

Getting on an already trained horse...true is not as hard as starting from scratch and going from unbroke to GP, like I did.

And there's a whole lot of ground between that and training one's own horse, competing, and alot of the other goals people want to reach.

Very true and but I understand that never happened to you SLC so that makes it hard to put much validity in what you are saying.

And...unfortunately...there are plenty of little dressage shows you could go to and get a blue ribbon in a GP class with a very low score and some very incorrect work; you can even win some national awards that way. When asking 'what sort of GP do you want to get to', one would also unfortunately have to ask if this is at a local or regional level, 'how correct do you want it to be?'

I suppose there is but I went to the all the "A" or recognized national shows that were available.

[NoDQhere]

Yes, it can be done with a darn good horse, a lot of determination, a lot of ability AND a lot of humility;)

It doesn't cost anymore to keep a "darn good horse" than it does to keep an average horse, and really, not much more to show at GP than TL.

We did it, we enjoyed the journey, we weren't any threat to "the big guns" but we were "respectable". And we are a long way from "well off" :lol:

Follow your dreams, never pass up an opportunity to improve your education and realize that it won't be "easy" or cheap, but it need not take a fortune either :yes:

[HSS]

Well, from someone who actually did do what you are contemplating- and paid for it myself to boot, here's my advice:

You had better find your self a career that pays well- extremely well. try medicine if you can afford to stay in school long enough to qualify for the big bucks- Dr. Dentist, high end nurse, pharmacist- or sciences- engineer, computer science or even accountant- think CFO.

Don't be naive about work- you will have just as many hassles- probably more- making barely enough to scratch out a living as you will making a very comfortable salary. High end jobs often translate into reduced work weeks as well. And, believe me, if giving back is your focus, you'll be far more able to do so when you're not counting every single dime to get to work next week.

Your mother is right- my father was right on this too, and more to the point, I listened to his advice and it's stood the test of time.

If owning a farm is your goal- and it should be- but the cost of an indoor is prohibitive, think "move to where I don't need one". All throughout the SW and west of this country you can get along without. Go there. Interestingly enough, that's also where most of the dressage trainers and riders are. There is a connection.

You don't need to marry to partner with another person who shares your dreams and interests- many a farm has been purchased that way as well as through marriage.

To afford a GP horse, you're going to need to buy really quality horseflesh cheap. The best way to do this is to buy them very young. Right now I assure you that I could pick up 4 or 5 extremely high quality prospects for $20K. How? I buy them as weanlings, yearlings, 2 year olds and start them myself and train them up. You can even lease a high quality mare and get a foal that way.

To learn how to train young horses, you can get a job at a small breeding farm helping out and starting their youngsters. So, instead of paying a small fortune for keeping your horse and paying board, you can get to ride for free, and maybe even get gas money or more out of it. Think apprentice.

Leaning how to start youngsters is a skill that will be invaluable to you in your goals.

Then, when you have one of their nice youngsters going well, and you need to learn how to progress in your riding, you can take advantage of the lesson program their resident trainer has going to get a break on the costs- even get to bring in someone you really want to learn from and organize clinics for them.

All things are possible if you are shrewd, focused, and determined. Somewhere along the way you will find yourself an older schoolmaster which you can learn more from. With your good paying job, you can find the money to purchase & keep him too.

I worked 10-12 hours a day at my job, and then rode 2 horses a night for many many years to get there. If you really want to do this, and you stay healthy, you can.

My dad said people always find the money for what they truly want. That's only correct if they make some realistic decisions, but there's a lot of truth in that saying.

[TeddyRocks]

-snif-

sorry, i have no answers for you, but can i just say i love your mother?? :yes:


I love her too...

[slc2]

HSS, really interesting post!
''
and I think that it is very realistic.

[pintopiaffe]

I'm not going to disagree that money makes it easier.

It seems trite to say that money is the biggest obstacle *at times*, but AT TIMES it is.

OTOH, the right person can find treasures for horses for cheap to free. Yes, horses that can DO the job, right up to the highest levels. You can work off board, or keep them at home. I know of... at least 3 off the top of my head I could place with the right rider for FREE tomorrow. Not started horses--but horses with the genetics, talent and temperament to go as far as a rider would take them. Circumstances have gotten in the way of their educations.

It's all about choices. I have CHOSEN my line of work, (and in fact left a career and took a pay cut a decade ago) despite topping out at $15/hr. I have CHOSEN to volunteer my time and horses and more money than I should to do psychotheraputic riding and special olympics(--while also CHOSING not to become a 401c3 *myself* because of the loss of control and risks inherent there...) I have CHOSEN to stay on the most beautiful piece of earth this side of Ireland, despite not being able to ride year-round. So your CHOICES definitely affect the journey, how long it takes, and which side-roads you take to get there.

I don't even think that it is noble, or self-effacing or anything to be poor and have to scratch and scrabble for every step of it. It sucks. It's a bitch some days. But it DOESN'T change my skill, dedication and discipline.

And honestly? While the $$$ affects it sometimes more than others (the youngsters don't fit in Papa's saddle, it sure would be nice to buy them each one for THEM... BOY I need a lesson, it would be amazing to be able to just schedule one and not have that interfere with paying the mortgage because of the stupid gas prices... etc. etc.) It is, when it comes down to it, my SKILL, dedication and discipline which dictate where I am.

Dedication? I've got it. Discipline? I have a lot, but at times not enough. Skill... 'eh... I'm lacking there. I really don't have much innate talent. And while I am ALL ABOUT this being as much art as athletics... there IS the athletic part of it.

But, I am still DOING it. Slowly but surely. I am doing a job I love (or used to, but that's a complete tangent) passionately. I am not smart enough nor disciplined enough to go back to school or I would. I'd be a Vet if I could, there's a huge need in my area. Plenty of work. But I can't pass the pre-req courses, and am not willing to give up my farm to go to school even if I could... CHOICES every darn bit of it.

I named my first foal of my own Integrity. I was reading a book when the mare was pregnant that spoke of Integrity being "looking back at the choices you made, and knowing that while you didn't always like the outcome, you wouldn't change the choices."

Would I be *happier* with more money? It would take away stress, like this week when my truck was dead and I had a rental car, and then this morning the truck is FUBAR again... It would certainly help in regards to paying for gas and grain and hay... so yes, in some respects it would make me *happier.* But the things that bring the most joy, that move me: that first greeting a mare makes to her new foal that you never hear again, the first few dancing steps of half-pass that are RIGHT... three clean changes in a row... not one of those things costs a penny.

[Ajierene]

HSS makes some great points. My boyfriend almost got a job in Texas and we were looking at real estate and horse boarding since we were talking about me moving down there. Compared to the MD/PA/DE area I live in now - MUCH lower cost of living. The pay rate is the same as my area also. So my $35K salary would get me a lot more there. I spent $150K on a tiny house with tiny property here - in Texas, twice as much house and property. I do more eventing, so I broke out the omnibus to see what's what. In that area - about the same amount of recognized shows within a 2 hr drive.

As far as your mom saying 'do what you love'. That is great that she is supportive, but you have to be realistic. I tried being a horse trainer for a total of about 6 months after I got out of college. I could not afford to live on my own. Clients are there and suddenly gone. Then I broke my ankle - with no health insurance. Well, there went my training. Most people I know that are trainers/instructors are barely making ends meet. They are living on farms that other people own, working with other people's horses, doing what other people want done with them. Even my riding instructor, that had a lot of connections Pony Club, was not able to find enough students in the long term. She has a farm because her parents bought it and she still lives with them.

HSS has other good points - look at what kind of jobs are paying what. Go into Pharmeceuticals if you can get the grades. A lot of money in that and the hours aren't bad. If you go into the business world, you will find yourself working long hours and not having as much time for your horses.

It is about a balance between having time for your horses, starting a business and being able to do what you want. Do your research and make a flexible 10 year plan. Look at different regions, what the cost of living is, what the popularity of dressage is there, what is the likelihood to get what you want there. Have places you want to be over the next ten years and then sit down and adjust your plan if you are not there.

You can do it, but it is a mix of what you and your mother are thinking. It takes money to make it to Grand Prix and just like your worries over marriage - you cannot guarantee that the amazing horse you are riding *now* for someone will still be with you a year from now when that horse is moving to fourth level and on the way up. Next thing you know, you are back working with a first level horse....

[CapitolDesign]

Some additional costs to consider, as you/your horse go up the levels into FEI:

Boarding at a farm with quality footing in a dressage arena, to avoid injury.
Hind shoes.
Supplements, injections, massage, acupuncture, chiropractor...
Saddle fittings more regularly.
More expensive show fees for FEI tests.
More expensive lessons/clinics with FEI trainers.
A double bridle, top hat, shadbelly.
...and the list goes on :eek:

A BNT once told me that almost all young dressage trainers (using as an example, because the salary is comparable) work a second/third job to pay for expenses of owning/showing their own horses.

If I think about the cost in my area for a horse at a dressage barn, it is about $1100 a month ($800 board, $200 farrier, $100 average for vet/dentist/saddle fitter). That does not include budgeting in for needed supplies, lessons or show entry fees. That works out to $13,200 a year without showing or lessons, if I am not mistaken.

[kypeep]

I'll take the opposite position of some of the posters. I have a job I don't love, but it pays very well, gives me the income to own nice horses, and allows me pretty much all the flexibility I need to ride/show/etc. Would I trade it for a job I love that pays alot less? No, because I need that income to buy the kind of horses I want and to show or clinic as I wish. Unfortunately, I have found the money is a very necessary part of all horse sports.

[rileyt]

Spending $250.00 and a lot of determination and 10 years later there you are.

You know... I'm not one to agree with SLC any more than I have to, but this is utter bullshit, and I agree with her that its a misleading and detrimental characterization. The fact that you were lucky enough to find a GP horse for $250 is great. Lucky you.

But lets not bullshit ourselves (or mislead the OP). You say you took 3 riding lessons. Really? In you entire life? I flat don't believe that. Either you were lucky enough to grow up riding on a farm where your mother was an international level rider (in which case, let's be fair and figure in the costs of all that), or you're getting your education some other way.

Even in your website, it looks like the horse had several different riders... who were they? The pros you employed?

But telling someone all it takes is $250 and 10 years of hardwork is just utter b.s. Not even for the truly lucky ones.

[slc2]

I agree about the cost issue. The 250 dollars was the purchase price at a killer auction for a weanling, if I recall the story correctly. It would be unusual for a 250 dollar weanling to become a successful competitive Grand Prix dressage horse. It's not something I'd count on.

It also usually takes people longer overall than ten years, to get to where they are riding Grand Prix, unless they work very closely with a very experienced trainer in a pretty intense program.

There are lots of different ways to 'do grand prix', too. One can see a lot of riders having fun riding in Grand Prix classes at local and even regional or even bigger shows in any country, and the work might not be top quality. They may have fun and be happy to have gotten there, but it may be more a personal sort of enjoyment than anything else. I don't think there's anything really wrong with that; it's a personal choice. Years ago a lady wrote to one of the magazines that she scored 45% at I1 or I2 with her pony size mustang. He didn't really have the gaits to do a medium or extended gait, he was just a little average horse she trained herself. She said basically, 'so what, i had fun'. I also think the 'competence, then progression' argument connected with qualification has its valid points as well.

[magnolia73]

No comments on the cost of "getting to Grand Prix".

BUT, you will need to have income in excess of $30-$40k to have a horse unless you are gifted with a minifarm or something. Horses are only getting more expensive. Hay and grain is increasing cost at a high rate.

I live in Charlotte, NC. For a minifarm within an hour of the city it will cost me MINIMUM $350,000 for a property needing some improvements. That's a house that you will not get a loan on in this environment without making $100,000 a year. Board runs anywhere from $350 to $1000 plus a month. If you are willing to drive you can find safe places for less. But you will spend an hour each way getting to see your horse. My budget is $650 a month. That will pay my board, shoes and for two lessons a month plus insurance on my horse to prevent hefty vet bills. An average apartment will run you $650 a month and you can still get a condo or town house for that mortgage payment. You'll need a car- a good used Honda and a good 4 year car loan is what I have. That costs me $250 a month. Add in gas ($100 a month?) and car insurance (about $90 a month). Pay my utilities- and we won't give you cable or internet so about $200 a month. Groceries- $300 a month for a healthy diet. So grand total- no saddles, bits, farm calls, hauling, car repairs, wedding gifts to buy, work wardrobe.... Grand total is $2240 in expenses. $26,880 a year before taxes. So probably you need to make $35,000 to do what you want to in an affordable area on your own.

Except that issues will come up and your income will not cover any extras and you will go into credit card debt. So call it $50,000 needed and don't plan on retiring.

People who do things like horses on low incomes typically have some form of external support..... Maybe mom bought your car or farm. Or pays your horse bills.

[Margaret Freeman]

Aquafilly --

Your mother is very wise.

Take a deep breath. If I read your post correctly, you're a freshman in college and you feel you're already too late in deciding a career path. College should be about testing the waters in many directions. You shouldn't absolutely need set ideas about your life-long career. You might want to talk to a variety of (horse)people about what they majored in during college and where they ended up. Most people have several career changes in their lifetimes.

You are, however, also very wise in realizing the importance of determining a budget, even now. So many people get blasted out of their life goals because they don't know where they spent their money, and then it's all gone.

It's not just about finding the right career but, when you take a job, making sure that the people there are good to work with. You can love your work but hate your surroundings. . . you'll be gone from there sooner rather than later. Plus, a career that isn't so much fun "on paper" can actually be supportive and rewarding in combination with your horse goals because of the people you work with and the flexibility of the schedule.

Keep on with your excellent planning, but be flexibile (with career planning and with personal relationships). Gee, working with horses should have already taught you that.

[pintopiaffe]

I will say that one of the ways I do it is no debt. My mortgage and my truck payment are my only debt. (the truck will be paid off next year--not the best use of interest as it's OLD, but I had no real choice.)

No plastic.

No cable. $10/mo dial up internet. A 10yo Gateway computer that runs windoze '98 (on a 16" old monitor that I can't see in early morning sun :lol: ) that someone had pity on me and gave me when they upgraded, for the price of shipping. A 24 yo Passier that I stumbled upon in a local tack shop, made a ridiculous offer, and they took.

I sell a saddle to buy a saddle. Teach or work extras or OT to buy extras--a bit, a bridle, boots, the joint junk for the stallion. Which becomes a downward spiral at times--you work to afford a lesson, but then are working so much, (14 & 15 day stretches) that you don't have time to ride, or if you do, you're too exhausted. I do have to be careful of that.

I probably shouldn't even be answering. We're only 1/2 way to GP. :uhoh:

I'm at the point in my life where I might take a job I don't particularly like to up the income. Unfortunately, I've bought a farm that I'm pretty locked into (choices! I love it passionately) so I'm limited geographically. If someone wants to tell me what I can do up here... I'm game. Resume's recently brushed off. ;)

[Speedy]

My advice, FWIW - choose a career that you will enjoy and that will be lucrative. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Personal and financial freedom often come hand in hand and you will be able to pursue your dreams - eventually :) - if you give some real thought now as to what types of work might make you happy and how to monetize that. In the meanwhile, as you finish your education and ultimately make a career decision, you should do what you can to stay involved with horses on some level - they are no more expensive than regular sessions with a board certified psychotherapist, after all.

One of the great things about dressage is that you aren't all washed up at 30!

[JackSprats Mom]

Just a few thoughts. Firstly, while you don't have to love your job you DO have to like/tolerate it, you'll spend alot of your waking adult life there. A horrible job is no fun. And while you say you had one and could walk away, the pressures as you get older get more serious and its harder and harder to just walk out and forget it.

Second, you CAN have a job you like that makes money (they're out there trust me)

Third, and while this is hard to hear when you are younger, you don't have to have everything all at once and NOW. Plan 10-15 years out, I know it sounds like a lifetime but its not. I bought a house, am spending 6 years doing it up (over doubling its value). My next goal will be to sell that, buy land and build my dream place. Its not instant but I can plan out and see the end results and its SO much more affordable.

Fourth, while marriage might sound scary now, the liklihood is you will meet and fall in love with someone. Whether you marry them or not is up to you BUT its not all about what you can lose. I waited 10 years to marry my SO. The reason I decided to do it was more legal then anything else. The ability to make serious medical decisions can be hard if your state doesn't recognise domestic partners, maybe your partner bought the house but you put alot of time and love into it?...all I'm saying is don't assume its all about what you may lose, you GAIN more.

And lastly, I ride and compete on a modest income, I own my own home, truck and trailer (my SO does not contribute to this as this is my hobby). It can be done, just takes a little longer on a modest income then a fat one :winkgrin: