Ethics and Showing

[PaulaM]

OK, I am hopefully getting ready to step back into the competitive show ring for the first time in 9 years.

In the past, I had heard it was against the rules and even ethics of showing for a competitor to "socialize" with a judge during the competition. I do know that it is against the EC Conflict of Interest rules for a judge to be "the houseguest of a person who is exhibiting in or whose family is exhibiting in such competiton.".

What about if a farm is hosting a show and trainer who is not competing invites her students out for supper with the judges with another day left in the competition? Is this ethical? Or should they wait until the show has completed before socializing in such a manner?

I am just asking these questions on a What If basis.

[oldbutnotdead]

Are the students showing?

[PaulaM]

hypothetically speaking that would be Yes

[oldbutnotdead]

Well, I believe that it would be improper for such a dinner to take place. Although I cannot cite to any specific rule, I believe that it would be imperative to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

However, my last boyfriend said that I was too ethical for him.

[neVar]

we've had this come up in the past around here... and it was declared not against the rule.

Reality is in many cases these riders and judges know each other.. a dinner, a drink, a what ever is not against the ruls.

That said we all felt it was best to 'not' just to make it obviousl. I remember withages (sp?) making a comment on this in an artical how she felt it was so weird that in NA the judges were not talking/etc with the riders. as they do in europe and reality is they already know the majority of riders at the higher levels. So the question comes if that is frowned apon will it become a rule evntually of not showing in front a judge you even "know" well crap we'll be in trouble then!

Personally this case i'd PERSONALLY have no issue wtih it- and do not see it as against the rules. We've had judges do a 'talk' on the finish of the first day- i've shown in front of judges that i know very well. I"ve also had judges call me over after a testand give me advice... "Ie you did that wrong" the judge is either honest or not. . doesn't matter if they eat supper with someone but that's how I feel about it and if i was a judge i wouldn't be eating with the people showing... just for apperances sake.

[Pony Fixer]

I think it's okay.

I mean, c'mon, the judges don't live in a bubble. There is an area judge who is a friend of a friend who also shows. She has judged me in the past and will in the future. While we aren't close, we have gone out to dinner at shows (when she was not judging in this case), and we've talked at other non show venues. It's not like she doesn't know who I am when I go down centerline, and it does not affect either of us "ethically" when it comes to scores (or at least I assume, as her scores are usually within the range of others I have gotten).

I think as long as no one is discussing improper things (ie, I'll buy your dinner for a good score ;-), it should be fine!

[tm]

A better solution is a barbeque, party or dinner that all the competitors are invited to. While a private dinner with some competitors may not be against any rules, offering a gathering where everyone is invited (whether they attend or not) will remove any feeling of impropriety. The judge might feel more comfortable as well.

[Ajierene]

I don't think in this case it is so much that the judge knows you, but a dinner might be seen to be, or be part of a bribe. As neVar said - for appearances sake.

[neVar]

LOL i had a judge who i know well go to me after a show (driving her to an airport the day after the show for her to leave)as i was commenting that i was happy with how my horse went considering his previous show she looked at me and went "what you did prix caprilli?" (the class she did not judge) ummmm noooooo "REALLY??? I JUDGED YOU???" ummmm YES...
"HUH ooh wait THAT horse ooh i liked him- go ride him better" LOL

[Ambrey]

"HUH ooh wait THAT horse ooh i liked him- go ride him better" LOL

LOL!

[merrygoround]

With a whole bunch of riders almost identically turned out, many on bay or chestnut horses, who sees their faces? :lol:

[xQHDQ]

I've scribed for many judges. Judges who judge often recognize the competitors who show often. At the higher levels it is more likely that the judge actually knows the person showing.

I have never experienced a judge who adjusted their scores because they knew someone. However, I have seen judges be biased to what they have seen in the show ring before (ie, I've heard a judge say, "This person always rides with too harsh a hand," as they enter the ring). I don't know if it affects the scores one way or the other - maybe they are pleasantly surprised if the bad habits of the past are gone???

[slc2]

I think a judge can tell the difference and score accordingly when they see someone come in the ring who has improved over how they used to ride.

I think the idea that judges can't socialize with riders or that all the riders in the area have to be invited to the dinner or it's stinks of being a bribe is...:eek::D:lol::):cool::no::no::cry::confused::o (i felt everything).

i get the feeling sometimes that people think judges are 'special people' who are kind of out to punish us and are very harsh and not encouraging to riders, or that they are 'fault pickers'. i don't think they are.

as for any socializing with a judge being unethical, i can't imagine how much more PURITAN we can get! judges are people. they need to eat. they need to socialize. they pee. they need FRIENDS. let us rejoice and allow them to do so.

[Blkarab]

I've scribed for a lot of judges---

Both at the recognized level and the schooling show level.

Our GCC usually has the scribes and show management take the judge out to dinner the evening after the show. (if it's a 2 day show, then it's the Sat of the show). This usually eliminates the image of impropriety between competitors and judges.

I have also noticed that many judges at a recognized show, usually are only looking at the horse and riders position, not necessarily their face, and will not necessarily recognize a particular rider but, if you describe the horse, then they will recall the ride. For the judges I've scribed at at schooling shows, they are usually impartial too.

OP--I like the idea that was presented about the barbeque. It would open it up to all of the competitors and make it look less like a "private" affair. If that is not feasible to do, maybe you could get the next day's scribe and office manager to take the judges to dinner.

Blkarab

[Blkarab]

OK, I am hopefully getting ready to step back into the competitive show ring for the first time in 9 years.

In the past, I had heard it was against the rules and even ethics of showing for a competitor to "socialize" with a judge during the competition. I do know that it is against the EC Conflict of Interest rules for a judge to be "the houseguest of a person who is exhibiting in or whose family is exhibiting in such competiton.".

What about if a farm is hosting a show and trainer who is not competing invites her students out for supper with the judges with another day left in the competition? Is this ethical? Or should they wait until the show has completed before socializing in such a manner?

I am just asking these questions on a What If basis.

Paula-

I just reread your OP, and since the trainer and students are NOT showing, then this would be Ok.

Blkarab

[Dressage Art]

I had heard it was against the rules and even ethics of showing for a competitor to "socialize" with a judge during the competition.

It is OK to "socialize" after the show hours, but not during the show hours. Your judge finishes at 5 pm, then take her to dinner and have fun even if you showed during that show.