Undeserved compliments

[Shiaway]

So pretend you're looking for a new trainer. You take a few lessons with one and so far you like them. They are really good at communication. You like how they get you to really think about what you're doing and why. You really like how your horse feels in lessons and the work seems to be helpful and improves both your understanding of riding the horse and also the horse's way of going.

But the trainer also makes the remark something like you have a GP horse.

As much as you think your horse is the very bestest horse on the planet and possibly the known universe, you're pretty sure, last time you checked, he wasn't GP. Maybe trainer meant you had a horse with potential? But you're pretty sure you don't have that either. Maybe she meant he was a great prize? hee hee

What would you think?

Thanks!

[FancyFree]

I like absolute, no sugar on top, unvarnished truth, straight shooters.

I like my trainers mean. :winkgrin:

[slc2]

No, not every horse is going to the Olympics or Nationals at GP, or going to do 16 grand prix classes a year and score 65-75%, but there's a lot of ground between that and 'this is an undeserved complement'.

I think assuming it is an 'undeserved complement' without speaking to the person and getting some clarification, instead coming here to word it that way and have everyone agree with you, instead of thinking about it and asking the person, is really limited thinking and very unfair to the trainer.

I would recommend, instead, talking to the person, and asking them why they think that.

"No one else has ever said that, why do you say that?"

There are so many times when the solution is NOT to go talk to tohers about someone afterward, with the conclusion foregone, but to TALK to the person right when the comment is made.

That will tell you how the person thinks and what their statement means.

And I think many, many times, we take one statement a trainer makes and blow it ALL out of proportion. They say stuff during lessons or talking - that doesn't mean it has to be dissected or worried about so much.

It may mean, 'Unless I tell you that, you'll go to someone who will", and if you ask me, that's pretty darned astute..

What do I hear all the time? 'they are REAL dressage horses, warmbloods suck, they are the FIRST dressage horses, they are 'baroque'' - when I was looking at Lusitanos that was ALL I HEARD, from owners, breeders...and WOW was it obnoxious, and so nearly universal i am SURE that some trainers feell they have to talk GP or the student will 'be furious if I don't say this and accuse me of 'warmblood prejudice' to every one you see'

It may mean, "I want you to think that way, and ride that way, no matter what happens".

I have also worked with someone who said, 'Any horse can do the FEI', and I talked to him about it, and he said, 'If they're sound, if they are willing, if it is not unfair to them, due to some conformation defect - OF COURSE. I don't have to say that - it's only common sense. My point is this - riders come to me with an attitude that limits them and prevents them from learning and moving up - it's 'i can't' instead of 'i can', and that's why I say that - I want them to know that the horse can do it if they would just buckle down'.

I have ALSO worked with someone who said this: "Train every horse like he is going to go to Grand Prix". That's slightly different, but it STILL means to make every ride a quality, correct ride, and to be positive.

The trainer may also have said that if you go in there with an overly negative or defeatist expression or body language.

And...I don't really understand what it is about your horse that makes you think he ISN'T a grand prix horse. You've sent me numerous photos of you riding piaffe on him - why can't he be a grand prix horse? That's got to be one of the more physically difficult things he'd have to do, and one of the more mentally difficult things, and he's willing to do that. He's also had a great deal of very good training.

More likely, it was not an undeservered complement at all but an urging to be consistent with lessons and riding daily, and work hard, have some goals and be positive.

[CLB15]

If the trainer is communicating differently then your past trainer and wants their students to be "thinking" riders, maybe s/he says he's a GP horse because if you think of him as one, you'll expect and work towards "the best" (rather then getting caught thinking you can't do a trot half pass because "he's just a first level horse").

Just a thought :-D

[everyequine]

It's nice to have an ego boost sometimes.. I had one tell me to take up tennis, I would rather hear my horse is like a GP horse. just enjoy the moment.

[jcotton]

I have a friend that says all horses can do PSG, it is matter of mind, conformation/movement, heart & desire if they can do it and do it well enough to show.

I have a homebred in training, doing everthing in GP, that is not the greatest mover in the world, but his transitions are accurate and correct, his P&P is better than many because of his collection and articulation of his hind end. He has a kind heart and works hard to please. In the same barn, there is another horse who will beat him at any show because he is brilliant in movement.

I am currently riding a welsh cob at first level and yes, I know my cob is going to get beat by the chestnut that won training level championships last. Based on movement, the chestnut wins everytime but that does not mean that I quit the cob or go buy a ride to beat the chestnut. It challenges me to be very accurate and show that cob to his best and on occassion I may win here and there. But it is about training the cob to go to his maxium in dressage.

I think the statement is for you to ride to your highest potential and your horses highest potential. Some riders and horses take longer to achieve their goals, just have a goal to be better than you were......so many months ago......

[Ambrey]

I have a friend that says all horses can do PSG, it is matter of mind, conformation/movement, heart & desire if they can do it and do it well enough to show.

And a person willing to put the work in! ;) I have seen so many people take horses that nobody would have considered "dressage prospects" to PSG. They needed determination, ability, and time.

As for the "GP" comment, during your next lesson ask her how far she thinks your horse could go. Then you'll know whether she meant it or not.

[FancyFree]

It's nice to have an ego boost sometimes.. I had one tell me to take up tennis, I would rather hear my horse is like a GP horse. just enjoy the moment.

Really? That is pretty harsh. But I have heard people tell certain idiots to take up stained glass. Hahaha, I thought that was unique.

I think it's unnecessarily harsh in general. Everyone can learn to at least be proficient. They might not be FEI but they can learn to ride. Hopefully. :lol:

[STF]

We spend a lot of money at this sport and I want someone to tell it like it is. But.... Im not a sensitive person either. My world is not gona fall apart if someone insults me or my horse.
:lol:

[rabicon]

Just my 2cents. My guy just started and is older I have had 2 trainers tell me that he is 3rd level potential. (granted thats not GP) but to me I'm not to sure about that. I don't know if his stubbern self and his age(13) will get us up to 3rd level, but I do trust my trainers and they know a lot more than I do about this sport so I listen and hope for the best. Maybe she saw something in your horse (nice gaits, nice temperment, etc....) that makes her think this horse has major potential. I would ask her why she thinks that, just like when my trainers said it I was asking right away. Really?? you think so, but he is so stubbern and hard to ride, etc... As they say it will all come together once he learns his way and now it is coming together. I'd talk to her and you never know maybe your a lucky one that has that horse with that potential. Be happy and jump for joy if so ;):winkgrin:

[Auventera Two]

I had the opportunity to watch a grand prix horse working in a training session and while he was a very pretty boy with good movement, he wasn't another Feiner Stern or anything. He was solid and pretty consistent, but not flashy or brilliant or a huge mover. Just a hard worker with decent gaits and conformation that was capable of doing the movements. He shows at GP but I don't know what his scores are.

Even within "grand prix" there are different levels of brilliance, athleticism, and talent. Some horses give the impression that if there were 4 more levels beyond GP, they could do them. Other horses seem like it took everything they've got just to get to that level with nothing left over.

It was a real treat to watch that horse work. He gave the impression of a good old fashioned hard worker that could do any job you threw at him whether it be GP work, or anything else you took a notion to do. So while he wasn't the super hot top flight rocket fuel horse with foam flying out his teeth, he just looked like a really nice horse that you could do anything with and have fun doing it.

I don't know anything about your horse, so I'm not trying to imply anything at all. Was just making an observation. :)

In the last month I've had two endurance riders watch my horse work and tell me she's got definite potential to be a top 100 mile horse. I do believe them, and I do think she has this potential, but as with any discipline, there are other things to consider like her rider for instance (me) and my limitations, funds, and the unforseen that sidelines your goals. It's nice to get great compliments on your horse and then work towards it but always keeping in perspective real life. LOL.

[egontoast]

I guess I read this Op quite differently.

I thought it was more of a self deprecating sideways brag rather than an actual question.:cool:

Not that there is anything wrong with that. :D

[Ambrey]

Not that there is anything wrong with that. :D

There's not :) Even a full frontal brag is allowed now and then.

I just didn't get that impression- it sounded to me as if the GP comment honestly shook her confidence in this trainer.

[everyequine]

Really? That is pretty harsh. But I have heard people tell certain idiots to take up stained glass. Hahaha, I thought that was unique.

I think it's unnecessarily harsh in general. Everyone can learn to at least be proficient. They might not be FEI but they can learn to ride. Hopefully. :lol:

yes, very harsh. that was her "thing". She wanted to see us react into being better riders.
I get it if I was I was having a bad hair day, but I think it was my trainer having a bad hair life. needless to say that "trainer" is gone for good out of my life.

[Shiaway]

Thanks so much for everyone's imput.

I guess why I'm so skeptical is because I've been told that my horse is small and doesn't have the movement for the upper levels. I've been told he'll be able to do 3rd probably and play around with piaffe/passage. So I think that I just talk myself down so much that it's so hard to believe a compliment when I get them. It's easier to believe the negative. Plus I can really relate to what STF said--and I AM a sensitive person LOL But you know when it comes to my riding I'm used to be given things straight.

[PiaffeDreams]

Thanks so much for everyone's imput.

I guess why I'm so skeptical is because I've been told that my horse is small and doesn't have the movement for the upper levels. I've been told he'll be able to do 3rd probably and play around with piaffe/passage. ...

What do you mean by small? I don't think that alone precludes a horse. My horse is 15.2 with his shoes and pads on and "puffed up".... so 15.1 ;)

His gaits were plain and small and unassuming except he could do amazing things at liberty so I took a chance. He's at 3rd and barring an injury he'll make GP. He's an amazing mover with the exception of his extensions which will always be limited as he has a fairly upright shoulder, but he can pi/pa until the cows come home and loves to do pirouettes. Not only that his gaits developed incredibly as he's moved up. I never would have dreamed he could move like he does now. I have to do things to show him off more like take a bit more angle in lateral work to show a definite crossing, ride my half-passes in a slower tempo, but think medium to get a more impressive appearance to the movement. Its never been all about the gaits and fortunately in our sport it still isn't. You can DO GP with average gaits. You might not win, but it can be DONE and thats winning in and of itself.

FWIW I told a client once I thought her horse would have a really nice piaffe/passage someday. She said nothing to me and I worried I'd made her doubt my sincerity or knowledge. She didn't say anything about the comment for several lessons and then out of the blue during a ride she just stopped and asked me about it. I gave her my reasons and she grinned. Apparently, her prior trainer and a clinician that came to that barn both said he'd not make it past 4th, but she'd been trailering out for clinics with a GP rider/S-judge who told her he'd go to GP and have a great pi/pa- and for the same reasons I did. So, who knows. It remains to be seen where the horse goes, but he's medium level getting 70's right now.

Maybe your trainer sees something in there you never thought was there. Maybe she has more faith in your horse than others might and wants you to know that. I'd take the compliment and if it really makes you wonder, ask her about it. I just think "because he's small" seems like a suspicious reason for a horse NOT to be thought of as FEI potential ... more "huh?" than the trainer saying he could do GP.

[Hazelnut]

Thanks so much for everyone's imput.

I guess why I'm so skeptical is because I've been told that my horse is small and doesn't have the movement for the upper levels. I've been told he'll be able to do 3rd probably and play around with piaffe/passage. So I think that I just talk myself down so much that it's so hard to believe a compliment when I get them. It's easier to believe the negative. Plus I can really relate to what STF said--and I AM a sensitive person LOL But you know when it comes to my riding I'm used to be given things straight.


Small = he ain't as big a Salinero?
Doesn't have movement for upper levels = you can actually sit his trot?
3rd probably and play with piaffe/passage = canter pirrouette won't be his forte? But he can still do one?

This may be the only honest trainer you've ever had. She see's potential in the team. Shoot for the stars, what the heck do you care what others think? As others have said - ride as if you are riding a GP horse. Believe and have training and care goals as if you are training a GP horse...and dream (the dreaming is free).

[slc2]

I think it's good to just ride every horse like it's a Grand Prix horse - same diligence, devotion.

Some years ago a gal I knew lost her temper with her horse and backed him up around the ring, smacking him, and a rider there said something like 'That's a really nice horse to be treating that way', and rider replied, 'No he ISN'T a nice horse' and the other gal said, 'He would be, if you didn't ride him that way'...and walked out.

I think the statement is very important in more ways than the other rider meant.

What we get is largely determined by what we do. If we ride like our horse will be GP one day, we will ride better.

I don't feel the goal can ever be 'This horse must do Grand Prix or I'll be miserable forever'.

I think the goal needs to be, 'every day, I will ride like I am headed for the Grand Prix'.

Whatever happens will happen, but the rider every day is taking one step closer to that goal, no matter what happens.

if he DOESN'T do that, every day he is taking a step AWAY from that goal.

[goeslikestink]

So pretend you're looking for a new trainer. You take a few lessons with one and so far you like them. They are really good at communication. You like how they get you to really think about what you're doing and why. You really like how your horse feels in lessons and the work seems to be helpful and improves both your understanding of riding the horse and also the horse's way of going.

But the trainer also makes the remark something like you have a GP horse.

As much as you think your horse is the very bestest horse on the planet and possibly the known universe, you're pretty sure, last time you checked, he wasn't GP. Maybe trainer meant you had a horse with potential? But you're pretty sure you don't have that either. Maybe she meant he was a great prize? hee hee

What would you think?

Thanks!


why does it have to mean a grand prix horse-- could mean just a general purpose horse

be wise and -- and just take it on the chin with every other remark

[vanillabean]

I don't know, I understand where Shiaway is coming from- to me a trainer should be pretty honest, and I try to ride with people who are brutally honest, and love the horse but don't mess around with highlighting limitations.
There is NO CRIME in giving all you have to a horse who will not make it above second/third level.
They will still come out better than they were. BUT, to take that same horse to a different trainer and have them tell you that its great, or going to go GP, or whatnot, that would annoy me more than having someone honestly say "All right, let's work on him...but his walk and canter and downhill conformation or mind or XYZ are always going to be big issues". And then everyday we work on them. I've had the "blow sunshine up the a@@" type trainers and end up questioning EVERYTHING they say, which leads to a deteriorating riding relationship FAST.
But maybe it is just a matter of personality types.

[Shiaway]

Thanks once again for the suggestions. I *feel* like I'm giving him my all when I ride him but probably just not being optimistic about him is transmitting through my body subconsciously. I do get really tickled pink when I look at him and think, maybe she's right :) I mean these last few weeks since he's been home with me he's been such a blast to ride. He learned how to do lengthenings over the winter and so it's kind of his new fun trick. Any time he so much as suspects I might be asking for a lengthening he tries to go into as big of a trot as he can must with his little legs. LOL He's really such a cute horse. So it's a good message to me to ride him like he's a GP horse and not be so negative.

[Hazelnut]

:) I mean these last few weeks since he's been home with me he's been such a blast to ride. He learned how to do lengthenings over the winter and so it's kind of his new fun trick. Any time he so much as suspects I might be asking for a lengthening he tries to go into as big of a trot as he can must with his little legs. LOL He's really such a cute horse. So it's a good message to me to ride him like he's a GP horse and not be so negative.[/quote]

YAY! I think its a good message for us all. The horse follows our lead. I think believing is a huge component. Jane Savoie's books are great for the right mental outlook and mental toughness.

[MySparrow]

When we bought Shaiboob I thought he was really ugly and unprepossessing; it was my then 12-year-old daughter who fell in love with him. But I duly worked with him, hoping to at least get his head out of the clouds and find his canter. One day, after a somewhat more encouraging session, my trainer said, "you know, he looks like a little Andalusian." Was she waxing me? I don't know. But it changed the way I saw him. Within a year we were competing successfully in dressage and S/J, and when I reluctantly had to part with him he went on to be the foundation of a strong teaching program at a new training yard. He lived the rest of his years beloved and honored.

As a teacher and trainer I look for the often-hidden potential in horse and rider. If I see something to compliment or build upon I will act on it. Often that one moment can add courage and drive to hidden potential. It seems likely to me that the OP -- who likes the way she and her horse work under this trainer -- ought to at least take a second look at her horse, trying to see what the trainer sees. And if she still can't see it, then certainly she should ask.

I'd be pleased, I think!