Riding the Sideways Spook

[dwblover]

Hello, looking for some advice on riding the sideways spook. My dressage horse is actually fairly mellow, but on occasion can throw a pretty nasty sideways spook during training. It is always out of the blue and it has gotten me off once before. Do any of you who ride spooky horses have any tips on staying put? I know sometimes I get ahead of the vertical and that can get me off balance. Any tips/advice on what to do or not do would be great.

[Leena]

I second Jrey's opinion. I think every horse has a sort of spooky phase; try to keep your horse forward and focus.

[Roan]

Hah! One of my mare's nicknames is "Spookmaster" and she's the queen of sideways, lemme tell yah.

She hasn't dumped me yet *knocks on wood* but I came close a couple of times. I don't know how to tell you how to ride it out -- except to say you need go with the spook. You fall off when you get behind the movement.

Hey, see if you can ride a fully trained cutting horse and you'll get the idea of how to ride out a sideways spook ;)

The best advice, though, is what people have already posted: you have to keep them forward and focused so that the spook never happens. Get them on the aids. If you are at the point where the aids are just out of reach for you and you are not quite "all there", then get their attention. Watch the ears and make sure at least one is back on you. If it's not, sponge the reins LIGHTLY -- just squeeze each rein -- until that ear is back where it belongs. You have to pay attention. If this is a smart horse, she will spook when she knows you're not with her. Stay with her and keep her on you.

Eileen

[GallantGesture]

Agree with the above. Also, learn to ride with a deep but flexible seat (think water balloon in the saddle not cement block), stay soft in your lower back so you can move sideways with your horse, and keep your weight softly dropped into your heel and your leg draped around your horse's side. The key is to go with the spook enough that you can stay in control and manage it before it gets out of control. If you start out in a perched or unbalanced position, you will be struggling just to stay on, but if you can ride the spook (think following seat), then you can use your leg to stop the sideways movement, a half halt with your seat maybe, some leg to encourage forward movement, and maybe an opening rein to guide your horse back to the rail... whatever you need to do from there to get right back to work. All of this starts with a good basic position though, so you might have pinpointed your problem when you said sometimes you get tipped forward - it is very hard to have a deep following seat when you are tipping forward!

[DennisM]

I'm not too proud to ride with an old stirrup leather around my mare's neck nearly always except in shows. I have a very athletic mare, and it's already saved me once just this week -- when I was riding alone and under the ring lights long after dark and a person "appeared from out of nowhere," startled my young mare (and me), who took a huge leap then bounding run sideways, unseating, but (thanks to the strap) not unloading me.

[Ambrey]

A lot of it depends on the horse too :) My new pony spooks sideways, but it's kind of like a soft little spring. My big guy spooks like a nuclear war, and sometimes bolts.

It was his spooking that landed me in the hospital last November, but lucky for me after a few months with the trainer (who is quiet and confident, not at all harsh) he's decided the place ain't so scary, because I am pretty sure I would never be able to consistently ride his spooks.

I can say, though, that my new saddle, with a deeper seat and bigger thigh rolls, is much more secure, so maybe...

[ESG]

To avoid the spook - kick pony's hindquarters up between its shoulder blades, and pay attention.

To ride the spook - plant your ass and relax your back.

[Sabine]

Agree with the above. Also, learn to ride with a deep but flexible seat (think water balloon in the saddle not cement block), stay soft in your lower back so you can move sideways with your horse, and keep your weight softly dropped into your heel and your leg draped around your horse's side. The key is to go with the spook enough that you can stay in control and manage it before it gets out of control. If you start out in a perched or unbalanced position, you will be struggling just to stay on, but if you can ride the spook (think following seat), then you can use your leg to stop the sideways movement, a half halt with your seat maybe, some leg to encourage forward movement, and maybe an opening rein to guide your horse back to the rail... whatever you need to do from there to get right back to work. All of this starts with a good basic position though, so you might have pinpointed your problem when you said sometimes you get tipped forward - it is very hard to have a deep following seat when you are tipping forward!

I have to second this post- along with the good advice of having your horse on the aids and feeling the spook come- you can almost stop it before it happens.
I have learned to ride with very long stirups and really use my legs to get around the barrel. Learning to ride like this and getting my core strong took a while. But now it's hard to get me off a horse...;)!
Once the horse learns that you are not unsettled or disturbed after a spook and actually take control- they usually think twice before doing this stuff...

[J-Lu]

I totally agree with GallantGesture.

You say it is out of the blue, but maybe you can learn to predict when it's coming (whether he's truly spooking or evading). I've ridden a few horses like this and my current horse is like this on trails (they never relax her). I find that if I remember to LOOK UP to keep balance, and not at the horse's neck (same with all horse behaviors) and use my abdominal muscles and some outside thigh to keep me balanced on top of my sideways-moving horse (while trying hard to keep a deep seat without clenching legs or seatbones), I can stay balanced.

If the horse is truly spooking, I simply don't react (maybe add a soothing voice aid) and try to go about business as usual. If the horse is looking for an excuse...I pretty much go on as if nothing happened. Pretty much, the horse eventually figures out that either a) things are OK because you're not reacting or b) he's not getting out of work despite the effort.

[downthecenterlinetheycome]

Also, after the spook, what I do is make the horse move back to where he was, not by circling around but by making him go sideways. Inside rein to withers, inside leg, lead him slightly with the outside rein if needed. He MUST go back to where he was by yeilding sideways.

[Fixerupper]

Go to the gym and work on your abdominal obliques ;)
Kidding aside, if you actually have the 'core strength' that the horse can't unseat you, they will give it up as an evasion fairly quickly..if not you have the strength, and consequently the confidence, to ride through it...

[dwblover]

Oh my gosh, so much wonderful advice! I think every one of you is right. All of these posts make a lot of sense. It's true, my biggest problem is that I don't have the confidence or seat quite yet to ride the spooks. I always end up tipping forward and perching and then I can be unseated quite easily, like you all have said. Perhaps that is where my lack of confidence comes from, my seat is not really anchored, I'm just floating above his back. Then when I get timid I stop riding forward and Mr. Spook E. Pants finds more things to look at. Wonderful suggestions!

[Fixerupper]

Physically strong=confident=effective... I love your attitude, I believe you can 'overcome' ..:)

[FancyFree]

From what is sounds like you need to get a more secure seat. I rode bareback a lot and it was pretty hard for my horse to unseat me. But when I first got her, I was not prepared for her cat-like movements. We had a dog jump at the fence once and my horse jumped to the right while I went left. Painful. After that I really worked on being strong and having a good seat. Bareback riding will help. The thigh machines that my friend calls the Obscene Machines at the gym are really good for gripping muscles too. ;)

[Roan]

Agreed and you guys are great at explaining how to sit through it. I just do it, didn't know how, was just something I did. My core bites big ones, though, so I must be sensing that they are coming or my reflexes are good.

My girl does the spook thing -- unless it's a genuine spook -- when she thinks I'm not "with" her or I'm "thinking too much". She ALWAYS does it when we are going to the right and I'm rising in the stirrups, posting trot. Going to the right is my weak side and my leg is really weak on that side. So when I start going to the right, I over-analyze what I'm doing wrong (where is my leg? leg must go DOWN! Lift the left seat bone and STRETCH that right leg! Leg! Leg! Leg!) to the point where I don't even know she is there anymore and I just make things worse. That's when she wakes me up.

Heh, I feel like a driver's ed student in a car with duel brakes -- so focused on what I'm supposed to be doing that I can't see that I'm heading for a parked car -- then instructor just STOMPS on the break pedal.

My horse is too smart for me.

Eileen

[Horsepower]

Actually, I think the advice you really need (other than the trite avoid all spooks by riding well, which doesn't really help you when there IS a spook) is how to survive the spook when it does happen. In my earlier days I had a chestnut TBMare (beware) who not only threw massive sideways spooks but also dipped her shoulder when she did them. She taught me how to stay on (after falling many times :)). The trick is to tighten your legs really well when the spook starts. (Sounds simple, but really it works; and I mean TIGHT). Now I do it so automatically without thinking that whenever any horse has thrown a sideways spook, I stay on. My trainer even remarked during a lesson on a school horse that I was the only one that had survived her spook (the horse was having a bad week) when a huge truck on the road applied screechy (sp?) brakes and that she was impressed. That TBMare really helped my learning curve.

[egontoast]

How to ride it? Prevent it.

Seriously. :)

Make sure you have your outside aids solid and that he is not loading the inside shoulder. Ride always a little in shoulderfore to make sure he's in the outside rein and slightly bent around your inside leg. Shoulderfore or shoulder in set up correctly will also help you to keep your outside aids solid and your horse bending correctly.

I've noticed that horses who do this sideways deak spook often do it when traveling with their more convex side to the inside and loading that shoulder. I think it's almost impossible for a horse to do the sideways deak if they can't drop the inside shoulder and if they are truly solid on the outside aids.

[TBROCKS]

I've noticed that horses who do this sideways deak spook often do it when traveling with their more convex side to the inside and loading that shoulder. I think it's almost impossible for a horse to do the sideways deak if they can't drop the inside shoulder and if they are truly solid on the outside aids.

Eureka! That's an excellent point about dropping the shoulder. My TB almost exclusively spooks when we're going right, and by golly he drops his inside shoulder in that direction too. Just sets himself right up for a big ol' sideways spook. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll be sure to focus on the outside aids tonight.

[Ambrey]

The trick is to tighten your legs really well when the spook starts.

But not your calves, if you have a bolter ;)

My trainer and I were discussing this last week. Even the steady eddy horses can have a spook now and then, and if your reaction is to clamp your calves and heels you could be in for a ride.

He told me to learn to react with my thighs and knees rather than my calves.

My big guy spooks when he's genuinely scared or startled, and riding with confidence is really important (the trainer has done worlds of good for him). The little guy does the silly spook sometimes. It's just not the same, he's so little! Plus, he is a good boy and you know he won't bolt or buck, so it's all good.

[Equibrit]

Make sure you are securely planted IN THE MIDDLE. That means developing a good seat! That way you go with them.

[Equibrit]

[quote=Horsepower;3234826]). The trick is to tighten your legs really well when the spook starts. [quote]


Not a very good idea for the horse that you have trained to be very quick off the leg. Especially the horse that goes off your seat and thighs. You could end up in the next state!

[egontoast]

Eureka! That's an excellent point about dropping the shoulder. My TB almost exclusively spooks when we're going right, and by golly he drops his inside shoulder in that direction too. Just sets himself right up for a big ol' sideways spook. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll be sure to focus on the outside aids tonight.

Great! Hope it helps. It was a eureka for me as well with one particular horse and now I notice it with other horses. If the horse is not 'filling' the outside rein/shoulder, it's very easy for them to do this.

First position is so useful for this- not just for the horse but also for the rider. You might always ride in 1st position/ shoulder fore when you are going in that direction and if going by a trouble spot when schooling, go to shoulder in. It requires you to be more effective with your outside aids.

I'm convinced they CANNOT do this type of spook if you have them solid on your outside aids.

[rabicon]

:D My guys show name is Big Bad Wolf, reason being he is a spooky snorter. :lol: If he gets scared and doesn't spook he will blow out really loud and snort so I said he is like the big bad wolf from the 3 little pigs because he is blowing and blowing and not getting anywhere(because I will make him behave;)) just like the brick house so hence the show name. He will sometimes throw in that sideways spook, last time he did it with my trainer here she said nice seat :winkgrin: My advice is I stay back, if I am forward for some reason and he spooks I'll throw myself straight up really quick and grab with my thighs really tight. Seems to hold me in, also alot I believe has to do with balance. Really good balance will help hold you on a sideways spooker.

[egontoast]

I have to say I'm really surprised reading this thread that almost all the posts are about how to sit a spook rather than how to prevent it.

I guess I'm lazy. I prefer to prevent problems rather than deal with them.

If the horse is on the aids it is very difficult for them to spook although it surely can happen. Basic point but needs to be said, I guess.

[Auventera Two]

Keep that horse in front of your leg - In Front Of Your Leg - IN FRONT OF YOUR LEG.

The sideways spook/spin/bolt has gotten me dumped 3 times. My horse is really hot and reactive. There isn't a "dull" bone in her body. So over the last couple of years I've done a lot of experimenting, and what I've found works the best is to keep her brain active, keep the trail challenging, and keep her in front of the leg. If I let her suck back and balk and gawk - it's all over.

The horse HAS to be on your aids, with the brain engaged, and the hind end working. Or at least that's how I manage my "take flight and think later" horse. She's a really smart girl and a top notch trail horse when she's on the aids and in front of my leg.

She's a horse that you RIDE every minute. You don't dig in saddle packs with the reins draped and your feet dangling out of the stirrups. When she gets any kind of vibe that her rider checked out of the building, she will have a big spook/spin/bolt within 2 seconds - guaranteed.

As somebody else said, just sitting the spook isn't the real issue because her spook is big enough that unless you're seat belted on, you could still easily fly off. It has to be prevented in the first place. All three times she has gone right and I went left. My right side is my WEAK side. So it was clear that my aids weren't effective on the right side of the horse, thus she caved in to that side. My left side which is strong, kept her from going left. I've done a lot of stretching and strengthening on my right side and it does seem to have helped. When she "does" spook now it seems that she shoots straight forward and the side to side stuff is a lot less than it used to be.

[egontoast]

Having your horse in front of the aids with hind end working as you say is not enough to prevent a spook of this sort. The horse can still deak/spook off the rail if not straight and on the lateral aids.

[Auventera Two]

Heh, I feel like a driver's ed student in a car with duel brakes -- so focused on what I'm supposed to be doing that I can't see that I'm heading for a parked car -- then instructor just STOMPS on the break pedal.

My horse is too smart for me.

Eileen

Oh my! :lol: :lol: :lol: You hit that one on the head! That's how I feel too! LMAO!

[Ambrey]

Having your horse in front of the aids with hind end working as you say is not enough to prevent a spook of this sort. The horse can still deak/spook off the rail if not straight and on the lateral aids.

But spooks will still happen, if you're in a facility as busy as mine. The dressage arena is right above and adjacent to the bullpen, a washrack, and two turn-outs. The other day I was watching my friend have a lesson and someone was in the bullpen cracking their whip like crazy, while another horse was running and bucking in one turn-out.

My horse still spooks even with the trainer, who is an extremely strong and focused, yet quiet rider. He does manage to keep control by not letting himself be unbalanced by the spook ("riding" the spook) and then pushing through it.

So I think, with some horses, a combination of both is required.

[helent623]

I don't know how helpful you'll find this, but it's a great example of riding a spook. (and pretty impressive on the horse's part)
<http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=2VtxJ2XzOX8>

[Blkarab]

Oh my gosh, so much wonderful advice! I think every one of you is right. All of these posts make a lot of sense. It's true, my biggest problem is that I don't have the confidence or seat quite yet to ride the spooks. I always end up tipping forward and perching and then I can be unseated quite easily, like you all have said. Perhaps that is where my lack of confidence comes from, my seat is not really anchored, I'm just floating above his back. Then when I get timid I stop riding forward and Mr. Spook E. Pants finds more things to look at. Wonderful suggestions!

Thank you so much for starting this thread! I have a Ms. Spooky pants, and all this advice is so helpful!

I have found that the stronger I am in my core, the less apt I am to be unnerved when my mare spooks. I have worked really hard over the last year to overcome the feeling of nervousness after she spooks. I discovered that if I'm not deep in my seat and have her completely focused, then her mind starts to wander and she'll make up something to do. Also, if I don't keep her active with lots of transitions or a mixup in the routine, then she gets bored and decides to "shake things up a bit" on her own. (Arabs are so fun!). I had a lesson with a clinician a couple of weeks ago, and had a really, really big spook. One of the auditors got up from her chair and it blew into the arena right behind my mare's hindlegs. She took off like a rocket! ( I knew it was bad when I heard the auditors gasp).I was very deep into my seat at the time and actually felt her hind-end drop and her legs come way up underneath her. She bolted forward and because I was so grounded and with her, I didn't even have a moment of going forward. I was able to reclaim her easily and go on with the lesson. (this was a first). We were working on something else later in the lesson at the far corner of the arena, and she was now bored at this point. So she decided to spook at the dragging equipment. I felt her tense for a moment and then go sideways. I wasn't as connected to her this time and landed on her neck. That day taught me how important it is to be connected to the hindlegs at all times!

[merrygoround]

The main problem is the after work cool out or the hack out days. I've developed some defensive rules. Never ever trust them on a long rein. Always be ready to close those legs. When in doubt go to sitting trot.

The thud is to painful these days. ;)

[Equibrit]

I have to say I'm really surprised reading this thread that almost all the posts are about how to sit a spook rather than how to prevent it.




Hello, looking for some advice on riding the sideways spook. Any tips/advice on what to do or not do would be great.

The question first asked may be the reason for the answers given!

[TBROCKS]

Having your horse in front of the aids with hind end working as you say is not enough to prevent a spook of this sort. The horse can still deak/spook off the rail if not straight and on the lateral aids.

Thank you. I read that thinking "but I DO have him forward and he STILL spooks". I can't wait to try Ruby with the shoulder fore down the spooky side tonight. Bwahahahaha. Could be the one time I've outsmarted him!:lol:

[egontoast]

The question first asked may be the reason for the answers given!

Yeah I read the question, too. :cool:

[dulawan]

I just started riding my spooky gelding with 2 whips - one on each side. It really makes a difference in keeping him focused & on the aids. When I don't have to switch sides with the whip - I don't miss a stride that might have needed a flick of the whip. It's like I just discovered his missing hole & now I have a much more focused horse. Try it!

[Roan]

Yeah I read the question, too. :cool:

This is for everyone that has posted about developing the core et al.

Yes, you are 100% correct that developing the core is essential. Yes, you are 100% correct that horse much be forward, in the aids, and to the inside to keep them from spooking.

But . . .what if rider cannot DO those things yet? It takes a LONG time to develop the seat and learn how to do all the above properly in order to effectively keep the horse on the aids and non-spooking.

What about in the meantime?

What can they do to keep from ending up on the ground, WHILE they are developing said core, proper aids, forward and so forth?

This is one of the frustrating things I've found in my journey. It's like someone telling you, "you need to walk on the moon" when one only has a basic fundamental idea of how to build a space shuttle.

Just my 2 frustrated cents
Eileen

[Ambrey]

This is one of the frustrating things I've found in my journey. It's like saying, "You need to walk on the moon" when one only has a basic fundamental idea of how to build a space shuttle.


For me, it's like being told to win the Indy 500 with a unicycle ;)

But, it's true- I had to get Smokey to stop spooking so big because I wasn't going to be able to figure out how to stay on with the body I have (or even the one I had, before 6 months of recovering from an injury!). The other suggestions were full-seat breeches with a sticky seat, that stick on saddle stuff, and a western saddle ;)

Luckily, it appears that 5 months with a trainer have mellowed my boy quite a bit, because for a while I was not sure I'd be able to keep him. The unicyle was just not cutting it!

[Equibrit]

This is for everyone that has posted about developing the core et al.

Yes, you are 100% correct that developing the core is essential. Yes, you are 100% correct that horse much be forward, in the aids, and to the inside to keep them from spooking.

But . . .what if rider cannot DO those things yet? It takes a LONG time to develop the seat and learn how to do all the above properly in order to effectively keep the horse on the aids and non-spooking.

What about in the meantime?

What can they do to keep from ending up on the ground, WHILE they are developing said core, proper aids, forward and so forth?

This is one of the frustrating things I've found in my journey. It's like someone telling you, "you need to walk on the moon" when one only has a basic fundamental idea of how to build a space shuttle.

Just my 2 frustrated cents
Eileen


Buy and ride a suitable horse. That is - one that is suited to your level of experience.
Start with a Cessna 172!

[Roan]

Buy and ride a suitable horse. That is - one that is suited to your level of experience.
Start with a Cessna 172!That's not always a viable option, especially in this current market, nor is it always the answer. Sometimes, yes, but not always. Depends on the rider in question.

What's wrong with teaching an alternative and temporary measure?

Eileen

[Equibrit]

It is however the BEST option - unless of course you like to bang your head on the ground. The alternative is to be a competent rider, who is confident in their ability to train a horse. An incompetent rider on a spookey horse is a recipe for disaster. You wouldn't expect to be able to drive an Indy Car without the benefit of a substantial amount of training - would you?

[EqTrainer]

Every horse has a spook in them. It depends on your horse, how you need to handle it. But the most important thing to do IMO is to accept that your horse WILL spook sometimes!

Regarding your horses temperament. Here are two good examples of how to handle a spook. My personal horse spooks when he would prefer to pay attention to other things to get out of work. He is dominant but not naturally confident. So if/when he spooks, or feels like he would like to engage in a freak show, I work the tail off of him. He feels much better soon ( I am not joking, he really then will relax and you can almost feel him say THANK YOU, I NEEDED THAT) and then you can just ride again.

My other horse is dominant AND confident. His spooks are always genuine. He is the horse that if you feel his nerves begin to rise, you pat pat pat, stroke stroke stroke. You NEVER push him harder if he is worried. You just tell him it's ok and it's all good and he is a wonderful HUGE horse that nothing could possibly eat. He then relaxes and says THANKS I NEEDED THAT.

If you handled my first horse the way I handle my second horse, you'd end up in another state really quick when he bolted away with you. If you did the reverse, the second horse would turn into a basket case.

The advice to keep your horse in front of your leg is of course valid and true and the way it always should be. But it pays to mind who your horse is, inherently, when handling their spookiness.

[InsideLeg2OutsideRein]

Yoga. Diligently twice a week with really good instructor.

You will be able to stay with whatever motion much more fluidly. That's the only thing that worked for me for staying on my extremely fast and agile TB. The new confidence in turn discouraged his spookiness to begin with --> much happier horse and rider now.

[Roan]

It is however the BEST option - unless of course you like to bang your head on the ground. The alternative is to be a competent rider, who is confident in their ability to train a horse. An incompetent rider on a spookey horse is a recipe for disaster. You wouldn't expect to be able to drive an Indy Car without the benefit of a substantial amount of training - would you?

You speaketh in circleths ;)

Eileen

[Ambrey]

You speaketh in circleths ;)

Eileen

You tied my brain in a knot!

I agree with eqtrainer- all horses spook sometimes. Knowing how to sit it, knowing how to prevent it, and knowing how to fall off gracefully all help ;)

[FlashGordon]

This is for everyone that has posted about developing the core et al.

Yes, you are 100% correct that developing the core is essential. Yes, you are 100% correct that horse much be forward, in the aids, and to the inside to keep them from spooking.

But . . .what if rider cannot DO those things yet? It takes a LONG time to develop the seat and learn how to do all the above properly in order to effectively keep the horse on the aids and non-spooking.

What about in the meantime?

What can they do to keep from ending up on the ground, WHILE they are developing said core, proper aids, forward and so forth?

This is one of the frustrating things I've found in my journey. It's like someone telling you, "you need to walk on the moon" when one only has a basic fundamental idea of how to build a space shuttle.

Just my 2 frustrated cents
Eileen

I can understand your frustration. But, don't get disheartened, some of these things can be achieved on a really basic level.

Before I knew how to do a proper shoulder-in or a leg yield and before I understood what forward really was... I figured out that inherently spooky horses are just best kept busy.

No fancy stuff required, just ride forward, do some figures, circles, transitions, ground poles, whatever. Its quite possible too that you are anticipating a spook and thus revving up your mount. Keeping your horse busy will keep you busy too. :)

My last horse was a spooky beast and so I made a habit of throwing him on a longe line for 5 minutes for just a few trips around the ring/arena to get a look and ask him to focus. It did wonders for him. Maybe that is something you can incorporate?

Also something my instructor showed me a few months ago, and forgive me if I do not convey this quite correctly, but if you stand UP in your stirrups, like straight up (you will feel a bit like your leg is swinging backwards and you are tipping forward) But, you'll find a "sweet spot" where you can hang out all day. Supposedly its a great exercise for developing balance. Maybe one of the more eloquent riders/trainers can explain a little better than I!

Anyway hang in there, spooky horses are tough, but learning how to diffuse the situation will give you a great amount of confidence.

[Roan]

I can understand your frustration. But, don't get disheartened, some of these things can be achieved on a really basic level.

Before I knew how to do a proper shoulder-in or a leg yield and before I understood what forward really was... I figured out that inherently spooky horses are just best kept busy.

No fancy stuff required, just ride forward, do some figures, circles, transitions, ground poles, whatever. Its quite possible too that you are anticipating a spook and thus revving up your mount. Keeping your horse busy will keep you busy too. :)

My last horse was a spooky beast and so I made a habit of throwing him on a longe line for 5 minutes for just a few trips around the ring/arena to get a look and ask him to focus. It did wonders for him. Maybe that is something you can incorporate?

Also something my instructor showed me a few months ago, and forgive me if I do not convey this quite correctly, but if you stand UP in your stirrups, like straight up (you will feel a bit like your leg is swinging backwards and you are tipping forward) But, you'll find a "sweet spot" where you can hang out all day. Supposedly its a great exercise for developing balance. Maybe one of the more eloquent riders/trainers can explain a little better than I!

Anyway hang in there, spooky horses are tough, but learning how to diffuse the situation will give you a great amount of confidence.

Now, see? This is 'sactly what I'm saying here! There are MANY things you can do to deal with the spooky horse WHILE you learn that much desired/needed seat.

Big nods to FlashGordon -- I'm doing all this stuff and more. I actually haven't had a spooky mare for a couple of weeks now and my seat is getting better every day. I have no problem keeping her on the aids to the left, just to the right that I am working on.

I'm getting much better, though. Last few rides have been awesome.

I'm just glad I'm a re-rider and did some cutting in my other life :D

Eileen

[Leena]

My last horse was a spooky beast and so I made a habit of throwing him on a longe line for 5 minutes for just a few trips around the ring/arena to get a look and ask him to focus. It did wonders for him. Maybe that is something you can incorporate?


I did it this last winter when we went through a spooky phase while I was not really balanced. It did work perfectly BUT it went to a point my horse was expecting me to come down and send him on the longe.
It was the second step where I had to fix it in the saddle. Fortunately my balance was better.

Also I did a lot of 10 meter circles of figure 8, just in front of the spooky spot. There is a lot of good advices you are getting here...I'll take some for myself !

Best of luck !

[FlashGordon]

Roan, glad my post made sense. I'm new to dressage myself and not really comfortable offering a ton of advice where dressage is concerned... but I can sit a spook, thankfully (ok watch me fall off now.) I think its all the little speedy QHs I have ridden, the spinners and scooters and bolt n' buckers. :)

I did it this last winter when we went through a spooky phase while I was not really balanced. It did work perfectly BUT it went to a point my horse was expecting me to come down and send him on the longe. It was the second step where I had to fix it in the saddle.

This is so true! The longe helps but it won't be a cure-all. After those 5 minutes on the longe I got right on and put him directly to work.

Another exercise I've liked for spooky ponies is spiral-in/spiral-out.

As far as riding the sideways spook directly.... BREATHE! Keep your lower back and upper body relaxed. Intuitively I tend to pop a heel in the ribs in the direction they are spooking, and open the opposite rein. Then GO FORWARD!

[MsM]

I have a reactive horse. His spooks are not really to evade or (usually) to play. He genuinely startles at things. He also does it in hand or loose in a paddock. Something startles him and he will put in a sideways leap,sometimes with mini-bolt, then often sheepishly recognizes what the scary thing really is and goes on his way. I believe he will always startle - short of starving him into submission. The trick is preventing or minimizing the reaction and ridng through them.
I agree that "keeping him on the aids" and riding shoulder in etc. all help tremendously. For the spooks you can feel coming, these tools often work. (Although when really scared, even Olympic riders have horses come off the aids and spook!) I found those unexpected "transports" much harder to manage. Trying to be 100% on the aids and focused led me to be too tense. The horse picked up on my tension and I got more attempts at spooking. Of course I couldnt be too casual or I would find myself sitting on air. I talked myself into faking confidence. I require forward, keep him busy working, and think about sitting deep and keeping my leg long. I remember to pulse my aids to avoid clamping on him and transmitting tension. Do not anticipate disaster or you will invite it!
It is much better. I am less likely to go fetal or clamp when he startles and his spooks are fewer and much smaller. I have used a grab strap and found that it really helps develop the seat and confidence when you have some emergency help. I would recommend using it and practicing both preventing and riding out the spooks. As you gain confidence and are able to be secure but not tense, you will likely find greater success in both regards.

[dwblover]

Priceless advice here, thanks everyone! I'm going to practice all of the suggestions. And that youtube video, oh my! Sad to say I would have been off in a flash! That rider barely moved!

[Ambrey]

Now, see? This is 'sactly what I'm saying here! There are MANY things you can do to deal with the spooky horse WHILE you learn that much desired/needed seat.

Big nods to FlashGordon -- I'm doing all this stuff and more. I actually haven't had a spooky mare for a couple of weeks now and my seat is getting better every day. I have no problem keeping her on the aids to the left, just to the right that I am working on.

I'm getting much better, though. Last few rides have been awesome.

I'm just glad I'm a re-rider and did some cutting in my other life :D

Eileen

I think if you find your cutting seat coming back, you're way closer than just having plans for the space shuttle! I suspect that what you learned in cutting is exactly what people are talking about here. Just being able to plant your butt in the seat and follow.

One of the reasons I went along with the idea to get a 2nd horse, besides really wanting my mom to get out and ride, was so I could do some no-stirrups riding to get stronger. I've only had like 6 or 7 rides so far, and haven't felt up to it yet, but dang it I'll get there!

[Ambrey]

Priceless advice here, thanks everyone! I'm going to practice all of the suggestions. And that youtube video, oh my! Sad to say I would have been off in a flash! That rider barely moved!

Yeah, we have several horses like that at the stable. Unfortunately mine is one of them, although easier in temperment than a lot of horses described here.

There are only a few riders who can stick ANYTHING, and quite a few of them are dressage riders. Hmmmm.

[Ambrey]

I talked myself into faking confidence. I require forward, keep him busy working, and think about sitting deep and keeping my leg long. I remember to pulse my aids to avoid clamping on him and transmitting tension. Do not anticipate disaster or you will invite it!
It is much better. I am less likely to go fetal or clamp when he startles and his spooks are fewer and much smaller. I have used a grab strap and found that it really helps develop the seat and confidence when you have some emergency help. I would recommend using it and practicing both preventing and riding out the spooks. As you gain confidence and are able to be secure but not tense, you will likely find greater success in both regards.

Your horse sounds a LOT like mine! And, yes, I have come to the same conclusions. Even on the ground, I have to fake confidence. Between that and the trainer, he is like a different horse.

And I'm trying to do it in the saddle too, but since I'm coming back after an injury it's REALLY hard. That fetal curl, with locked arms and clamped legs, creeps up on me unawares. I've been riding my big guy with the trainer, who can constantly give me feedback, but I need to work on it with the pony.

Both of them go SO much nicer when I can relax!

[Dune]

Every horse has a spook in them. It depends on your horse, how you need to handle it. But the most important thing to do IMO is to accept that your horse WILL spook sometimes!.

Thank you for saying this!!! :yes: Those who intimated the rider must not be riding correctly because a spook happens must not ever ride out on trail, ride in new/busy/uncontrolled situations, ride young horses (or any horse for that matter:lol:) or never give up the reins. Please, it's fantasy land. :rolleyes: Honestly, the best thing you can do when a horse spooks is to be sitting correctly and somewhat paying attention. That way most of the time you'll stay on. It's pretty simple honestly. I had a situation a few months ago when the rainbird sprinkler came on accidently just as I was entering an arena on a young horse. I had just come in from walking around on the track, still on a loose rein. Well, in less than a second we were bolting sideways forward like a shot out of a cannon. I didn't know what happened, but I grabbed my reins and said Whoa! Well, little mare whoa'd and I managed to stay on because I was relaxed in the middle of the saddle, with my legs long and upper body upright, looking straight ahead. Of course it tweaked my back a little bit but it was waaaay better than hitting the dirt! :winkgrin:

[NRB]

I pretty much agree with what Dune just posted. To ride a sideways spook (after it has happened) I make sure that I am always sitting up in a correct position.....that position is the only thing that keeps me in the saddle. Ok there are actually 2 other things 1) I am pear shaped so I am bottom heavy not top heavy. And 2) I ride a Cutter Bill grandson, so like a cutter he drops down as he spins and bolts. I just keep my shoulders back and let gravity pull me deeper in the saddle. The 2 times he's unloaded me in a sideways spin/bolt was when I was hanging off the side of the saddle tugging at a stuck stirrup leather, and when I was turned around in the saddle to talk to the person behind me on the trail.

Please note I am NOT saying that I could ride out any horses spook, there are probably millions of horses out there that I am NOT qualified to ride and thus could not ride the spook. I am just saying that on my horse, this works for me.

[TBROCKS]

How to ride it? Prevent it.

Seriously. :)

Make sure you have your outside aids solid and that he is not loading the inside shoulder. Ride always a little in shoulderfore to make sure he's in the outside rein and slightly bent around your inside leg. Shoulderfore or shoulder in set up correctly will also help you to keep your outside aids solid and your horse bending correctly.

I've noticed that horses who do this sideways deak spook often do it when traveling with their more convex side to the inside and loading that shoulder. I think it's almost impossible for a horse to do the sideways deak if they can't drop the inside shoulder and if they are truly solid on the outside aids.


LIVING PROOF THAT THIS WORKS!!
My TB has, over the last few weeks, become committed to spooking sideways on our very spooky long side in the arena. VERY unnerving. This morning, using this advice...no spooking. It really was allowing him to pop that shoulder that was the root of the problem. He still got tense on the "bad side" but by keeping him on the outside aids, he virtually could NOT scoot toward the inside of the arena. What an epiphany! I highly recommend any one else having this problem try this. Thank you Egon! :D

[meupatdoes]

I'm not so much one for tensing anything (calves especially, because I'm not one for turning a sideways spook into vertical leaping) when the horse does something. If the horse spooks sideways to the left, I tend to end up with my hips leftward, my shoulders slightly rightward, an opening right rein, and a little more weight in my right stirrup.

Try to stay loose, smile, and 'go along'.

;)

[enjoytheride]

I will have to agree about preventing the spook in the first place. If you can't, any way you can hang on works.

A horse that has his mind on his job will not spook except perhaps in an extreme situation. Some horses make up reasons to spook, and plenty of others spook because they are "giving you the privlage of sitting on them but not giving you the steering wheel."

It's all about riding forward and using that inside leg to outside rein. If your horse's head is down and on the bit and your reins stay connected he will spook less and less. But if his head is in the air, and he's gawking at everything then he'll find reason to be stupid. Believe me, the mare I ride used to be a dangerous horse with her extravagent bolting and spooking. I can stick with her spooks but it's all about learning how to connect her and keep her mind on her business.

I took my mare to a show yesterday and tractors, bicycles, golf carts, tents, trashcans, dogs, etc all went on around her while she was tied to the trailer. She munched her hay and took a nap. At home a horse bangs his dinner bucket and she bolts off for the hills. HA! Now I know she's playing games with me.

Riding a horse beyond your skills is not an excuse and will eventually ruin your horse and you. If you have a spooky horse you MUST learn to put that horse on the aids and keep his attention. No excuses for you. More lessons for you.

[Emstah]

I don't have any real suggestions as to how to ride it, but I want to let you know that my guy does the exact same thing! I've had him since he was 3, he's 9 now and even though he spooks much less often than he used to, when he does now, it is still just as big and jarring as when he was 3! Yesterday I was at a schooling show and when I came up the center line for my final halt and salute, my horse took a FLYING leap and landed on the quarter line when the judge stood in the box. I almost fell off and my he completely jammed my hip! Now, believe me, the horse has seen PLENTLY of judges stand in the judging booths and normally doesn't bat an eye at it! So, my advice I guess is to use LOTS of sticky stuff on your tack and to hold on tight! (That's all I've come up with over the last 6 years!). Good luck!

[WindsongEq]

Try for a preemptive strike... They telegraph to you that something looks a little suspicious over there by raising their head to try and look at it.
Don't let the spook happen...
Sit with your shoulders over your hips, sit deep and shorten your center line, firm in your core, keep your thighs and knees firmly closed next to the scary obstacle.
Keep them really round, elbows and shoulders pushed down.
Don't let them look at the scary thing, slight flexion away from it, inside leg and outer rein holding them on the planned line of travel. I will also use concentric circles to spiral toward it.
Some horses balk or suck back when they spook, I ride this type really round and fwd.
Some horses try to run, on this type I walk in a collected walk, not letting them run through the bridle, keeping them really round, not letting them take a step I haven't asked for.

Also remember the "comfort zone", "stretch zone", "panic zone" rule...

If I am riding a very young horse, I need to try to keep them in a comfort zone where they don't spook, maybe just circles at the "safe" end of the arena near the in gate where we lunge. I can then develop a week's training history with them of no spooking... I then ask for "stretch zone" where we ride some concentric circles towards the middle of the arena, I must keep the horse mentally and physically relaxed until eventually 2/3 of the arena has now become comfort zone. Finally, with lunging at the scary end, leading them there, sitting on the rail after work just hanging out.. The scary end is not so scary and I can ride there safely with relaxation. I try and never let the horse go to "panic zone" as this is not the training history I can build on.

.

[Ambrey]

With my horse, the spooking is almost always without warning, and the most likely instigation is another horse spooking (herd mentality, I figure).

So, for example, the day I fell I was walking along on the buckle, in his usual arena, at the end of a really good ride. His head was down and he was looking forward to going home and getting some hay. He'd been totally mellow all day.

Another horse just outside the arena (this is the eq center from hell, there are horses and arenas everywhere) had a huge spook, and my horse panicked, spooked, bolted, bucked, and dumped me. Unfortunately I held on for the panic, the spook, the bolt, and the first buck and didn't let go until I was right next to the stupid rail (note to self, rail hard, arena footing soft. hard=bad).

I'd had a bit of trouble with his spooks and tried quite a few things, but I didn't get results until I finally got him in training. I honestly believe that the poor guy was terrified. The velcro trainer just rode through his spooks as though they were no big deal, got him back to work, and eventually he just stopped panicking at things, and the panic was much milder.

Unfortunately, for months the only "comfort zone" at the barn was his corral. Now it's much wider, because the trainer pushed him, but he really needed that velcro butt to do it.

So I'm just sayin', for some horses you can't get the prevention without the seat. NOW, he can be ridden around the arena on light contact, kept on the aids, and is fairly trustworthy. I just don't think I would have been able to get him there, unless I found some way to stay on when he spooked. Chicken, egg, who knows!

I learned enough from it to put my new pony in training right away, even though he's a sweetheart, so he could have the strongest and most confident handling while he's getting used to my crazy barn.

[Roan]

Ambrey,

Since I started really getting into my artwork (that artsy fartsy thread of mine :D) my riding has gotten SO much better and I'm really clicking with Spookmistress --

Few days ago it took me TEN MINUTES!! to get her to put her feet in the scary long grass that's just before the wee path into a set of trees. Snorting and blowing -- all bravado and play as most of her spooking is -- but once she did it was like -- oh, look! there's a path! let's go! -- away we went . . . that was a first for us!

Then Saturday I took Miss Snorty Blower over a 16" jump!!! Three times!!! Well, she went THROUGH the jump :lol: Knocked the rail off with her big fat feet three times, she did, but the point is that I don't jump well and she's never jumped that I'm aware of and she did it! She didn't even stop to eyeball the jump or look at it twice. I just kept her on the aids and focused and we did it!

Hah! Can you tell I'm excited?! She had fun with it, too, I could tell. Totally relaxed us both and gave us something FUN to do that we did well.

Just had to share the progress we are making together. . .positive energy is SO important, no matter how "meaningless" the source. I CAN do this!

Eileen

[Ambrey]

OMG, I am so with you on that! I think seeing him go so well for the trainer really bolstered my confidence in him, and made me think... "hey, I can do this, he's not a nightmare monster horse from hell!"

A jump! You ARE brave :) My barn doesn't allow jumping without a trainer. Anyway, I will have to get a LOT braver before I try it (although the trainer has had him over jumps and says he loved it!).

Congrats on the success. I will be getting back into my version of art this summer and fall, and will let you know if it helps me too :) I am thinking a massage would help more!

I'm actually a little bubbly myself because my daughter just had a really good lesson on a pony she's never ridden before. Success by proxy ;)

[mp]

Try for a preemptive strike... They telegraph to you that something looks a little suspicious over there by raising their head to try and look at it.
Don't let the spook happen...
Sit with your shoulders over your hips, sit deep and shorten your center line, firm in your core, keep your thighs and knees firmly closed next to the scary obstacle.
Keep them really round, elbows and shoulders pushed down.
Don't let them look at the scary thing, slight flexion away from it, inside leg and outer rein holding them on the planned line of travel. I will also use concentric circles to spiral toward it.
Some horses balk or suck back when they spook, I ride this type really round and fwd.
Some horses try to run, on this type I walk in a collected walk, not letting them run through the bridle, keeping them really round, not letting them take a step I haven't asked for.

Also remember the "comfort zone", "stretch zone", "panic zone" rule...

If I am riding a very young horse, I need to try to keep them in a comfort zone where they don't spook, maybe just circles at the "safe" end of the arena near the in gate where we lunge. I can then develop a week's training history with them of no spooking... I then ask for "stretch zone" where we ride some concentric circles towards the middle of the arena, I must keep the horse mentally and physically relaxed until eventually 2/3 of the arena has now become comfort zone. Finally, with lunging at the scary end, leading them there, sitting on the rail after work just hanging out.. The scary end is not so scary and I can ride there safely with relaxation. I try and never let the horse go to "panic zone" as this is not the training history I can build on.

.

Excellent advice. All of it. Horses never spook "for no reason." We just think they do.

If you ride a horse that's spooking a lot, you need to build trust as outlined above. Start out riding where you can, and ride every step. This doesn't mean you're tense, just that you're aware of everything your horse is doing and when his attention starts to wander, you bring him back to you. If your horse does spook, sit up, sit back and keep asking for flexion until he gets his mind back.

Getting someone to ride/train your horse is a good idea, but he will still be spooky when you ride him if you don't learn how to prevent spooks and how to sit on a horse.

[Ambrey]

Getting someone to ride/train your horse is a good idea, but he will still be spooky when you ride him if you don't learn how to prevent spooks and how to sit on a horse.

If the trainer can increase the horse's comfort zone to give you a safe place to ride, you are way ahead of the game in terms of learning and safety.

I seriously considered sending my horse away for training after my accident, but that was one of the considerations- sending him away doesn't help him feel safer and get desensitized here. He's less spooky in general now- on the ground he could be a real fire breather, but now he's pretty mellow most of the time. Except when it's stormy. One of these days they have to figure out WHY horses freak out when the weather is weird!

[jcotton]

I have a cob that is hard to ride when the wind is blowing strong or gusting. He loses most all his focus on me, on occassion he checks in but on those days just better to not ride him. Anyhow back to the topic, he can do some good sideways spooks at the littlest things and stuff he has seen daily just because he is always testing. He's not mean it's just a game. Are you sure you want to go near that?
I have learned to keep my legs long and there but not clenching, my lower back relaxed, my hips in front of my upper body and my upper body back so I don't tip forward to help him in his game. It feels like my upper body is in a recliner but I'm actually correct in upper body postion. And with the items I know he may spook at, he gets put in shoulder - in, he then can't see the item and if he is doing a lateral exercise, he will have to work harder at leaving.
I also make him go sniff and touch whatever he is being stupid about, and reward him for being a brave little shit.

[goeslikestink]

sit in and push forwards

[GallantGesture]

Another suggestion is to get yourself the right equipment... put a grab strap on your saddle, or get yourself a saddle with a deeper seat. Make sure your saddle puts you in the correct position (shoulder-hip-heel) and doesn't sit you tipped forward or in a chair seat. Also, try full seat breeches and see if that helps, or some saddle-tite on your boots. I had a lost-confidence time with my ottb due to regular spooking/bucking/bolting antics and right away when my new trainer saw what was going on she gave me a different saddle to ride in and told me to find one that was going to help me. I ended up with a Wintec Isabel, and then I got some less-expensive synthetic full seats. It was like suede-on-suede (but all synthetic of course). Instant confidence! And once I had that confidence, it was easier to relax and sit up straight, which of course helped my horse relax... Now that position and confidence has become habit, and I can ride in other saddles without issue.

[Kathy Johnson]

What can they do to keep from ending up on the ground, WHILE they are developing said core, proper aids, forward and so forth?

I also firmly believe in preventing the spooks. The most dastardly seem to be when the horse is walking relaxed on a long rein. There often isn't enough time to gather up the reins. So, I tell riders, when the horse is at ease, on a long rein, the rider must be at attention, in proper position, with legs long and heels down. If the rider needs a break, to stretch out body parts or to dangle the feet out of the stirrups, the horse must be at attention, on a short rein. If the horse is on a short rein, it's much easier to ride them on the aids, plus, if they jump, they run into the bit, and help stop themselves.

If you haven't prevented the spook, the first point of order is to STAY ON. Biomechanically in a sideways spook, this is what happens to the rider. Let's say the horse takes a big jump to the left. The rider is going to fall off on the right side due to centrifugal force. Think of the cartoon horse who leaps to one side, leaving the rider dangling in air on the right. If the rider is tipped forward, it is going to cause the legs to be too far back, which also means they are not long enough. As the horse jumps left, the rider's left leg is going to hike up. If the rider is leaning forward, the left leg is going to slip off behind the saddle. Either way, the horse is going to jump out that door, dumping the rider over the right shoulder, as the left leg comes up and the rider's weight falls to the right.

Think of the legs and heels like anchors. If your left anchor is dislodged, you're going to topple onto the right. Your anchor is aweigh.

So, when the horse spooks, stretch both legs down and jam your heels down and forward. Pushing the leg forward will help your seat stay back in the saddle. Don't clamp, drop anchor!

Once you've sat the spook, put the horse immediately back into harder work.

[mp]

If the trainer can increase the horse's comfort zone to give you a safe place to ride, you are way ahead of the game in terms of learning and safety.

I seriously considered sending my horse away for training after my accident, but that was one of the considerations- sending him away doesn't help him feel safer and get desensitized here. He's less spooky in general now- on the ground he could be a real fire breather, but now he's pretty mellow most of the time. Except when it's stormy. One of these days they have to figure out WHY horses freak out when the weather is weird!

It helps tremendouslly when your horse is steadier. Or if your horse is that spooky, a different one.

But every horse has a spook in him, no matter how mellow he is. And the more clueless the rider, the more the spook will come out. That's why all the advice about preventing the spook. And that's why a lot of riders need someone to train them even more so than their horses.

[rileyt]

There are a lot of helpful thoughts here, but let me offer my own 2 cents on preventing spooks.

As one of my early riding instructors told me, an object in motion tends to stay in motion. The "secret" to preventing spooks is the same secret as with everything else in dressage: its in the back.

"forward" is not enough.
"round" is not enough.
But when you learn to ride a horse REALLY through and over his back, with his back up, you are in the best position to prevent or minimize spooks. Why? because when he's in that position, his movement ad physics is going to keep carrying him forward and in balance.

Most horses who spook will have a split-second instant where they drop their back (prior to the spook). This is an evasion of the rider, designed to get them free so they can react to whatever is scaring them. Once you've ridden enough of them, you will learn to feel that instantaneous drop in the back and either 1) get their back immediately back up to avoid the spook, or 2) at least feel it coming.

As someone said, its easier said than done... but I think that is really the answer.

[dwblover]

Wow, Kathy Johnson, you described my fall about seven months ago to perfection. Horse went left, I stayed right. I'll have to keep reminding myself to anchor into my heels and NOT tip forward. Thanks to all for SO much amazing advice!!!

[hitchinmygetalong]

I'm reading some great advice here, especially Kathy's last post. Her description of what happens if you are not "anchored" is perfect (said from experience, sorry to say).

However, haven't you ever just had a horse completely disappear out from under you? Like, in the blink of an eye? :eek: Not while you were doing anything "relaxed", but while you were actively working? There are those horses that are perfectly capable of skee-daddlin' and leaving you sailing through the air wondering what on earth happened. (And they are usually 14.3 and very athletic little buggers!)

Can we admit that there are those rare times when all the preparation, prevention, and proper riding in the world just isn't enough?

And yes, I've got the scars to prove it. :lol:

[Roan]

. . .
However, haven't you ever just had a horse completely disappear out from under you? Like, in the blink of an eye? :eek: Not while you were doing anything "relaxed", but while you were actively working? There are those horses that are perfectly capable of skee-daddlin' and leaving you sailing through the air wondering what on earth happened. (And they are usually 14.3 and very athletic little buggers!)

Can we admit that there are those rare times when all the preparation, prevention, and proper riding in the world just isn't enough?

And yes, I've got the scars to prove it. :lol:Most definitely YEP!

Eileen

[Ambrey]

Most definitely YEP!

Eileen

Even the pros get caught unawares! Horses is tricky things!

[Dune]

I'm reading some great advice here, especially Kathy's last post. Her description of what happens if you are not "anchored" is perfect (said from experience, sorry to say).

However, haven't you ever just had a horse completely disappear out from under you? Like, in the blink of an eye? :eek: Not while you were doing anything "relaxed", but while you were actively working? There are those horses that are perfectly capable of skee-daddlin' and leaving you sailing through the air wondering what on earth happened. (And they are usually 14.3 and very athletic little buggers!)

Can we admit that there are those rare times when all the preparation, prevention, and proper riding in the world just isn't enough?

And yes, I've got the scars to prove it. :lol:

Yes, I had a huge WB gelding that could stop, drop and rollback like the cattiest of quarter horses. It was terrifying because if it didn't/couldn't stop him in his tracks at that point, you were going for a RIDE! Very difficult horse...and let's not even talk about riding him around the property on a loose rein, that would've been a death wish. :winkgrin::yes: