Bit for horse with large tongue / low palate

[Incitatus]

Hi. My chunky warmblood is objecting to his snaffle bit - head tilting to the right, throwing his head in transitions. It's a single jointed loose ring. I have tried a double jointed loose ring but that seems to give less control. A baucher bit seemed more comfortable to him but he leaned on the fixed cheek too much. It seems like he would like less tongue pressure and no nutcracker action. I would try a waterford baucher but I don't think its legal for dressage here. Any suggestions?
(FYI He has been checked out from top to bottom - teeth, back, and everything else. He's also ridden by an FEI level pro with soft hands)
TIA Folks!

[Ambrey]

Myler comfort snaffle.

[ideayoda]

Use hh which keep the horse more up and open, most horses tense/hollow when there is slightly too much bit onto the bars/tongue. Working in hand, asking the horse to chew f/d/o by lifting the bit into the corners of the mouth teach mobility of the jaw/chewing/swallowing. This then helps undersaddle. Be careful the horse is not crossing the jaw. Keep the horse positioned, pulse the aids (alert/alert/transitions).

[Pely]

A French mouth baucher will give the most tongue relief. Then half halt and half halt and keep those hind legs active and half halt again.

[Sandy M]

A French mouth baucher will give the most tongue relief. Then half halt and half halt and keep those hind legs active and half halt again.

Ditto. My shallow mouth/big tongued TB/App was much more comfortable in a French mouth Baucher. He chucked the Myler comfort snaffle around a lot and didn't seem to care much for it. Some horses love the Myler. Different strokes.

[pintopiaffe]

Mine have teeny mouths with big tongues and very low palates. *I* would like them to go in french links. Almost to a one, they prefer a single joint, but with curved arms--JPs being the winner. Which is good becuase JP's come in lots of styles and are 'normal' priced.

Mylers and Neue Schule come in a close second.

A couple go/went miraculously in a mullen mouth.

NONE of them go well in looserings. For several reasons, one of which probably is I don't use drops or flashes on a regular basis, but also the shape and refinement of their heads. A loosering with large rings on a refined muzzle can begin to develop gag action. (Think the big old "Irish Hunter" loosrings--that was the point of the design. Now put a 3"+ loosering on a very refined muzzle... *voila* same deal.)

So, 3 out of 4 of my current mounts go in a very low tech, unfashionable JP Fullcheek single joint. The 5th goes in a curved Baucher single joint.

[Ambrey]

I just got a JP oval link loose ring (I do use a flash) and it's so thick, I'm not sure how Smokey is going to take it.

I am on the "cheap bits on e-bay" bent, too, because I'd like to try a few. I just ordered a single joint baucher in german silver ($20 with shipping!).

[DMK]

Myler comfort snaffle.

Wide barrel version (no bridle hooks!) is exactly what worked on my horse with the same issue. He came in a regular snaffle, I swapped to a french link and then quickly o a happy mouth mullen mouth. He was much better in the MM, but it was still just physically "too much stuff" in his mouth. As soon as the comfort snaffles came out in a hookless version I tried the wide barrel one which is not a lot different than a skinny mullen mouth, and that made him happiest of the bunch. Somewhere along the way I tried a hackamore, a segunda, and a waterford just to see if they made him any happier - they were not only "no", but more like HELL no. The Segunda was off the bridle in 5 minutes. :p

[everyequine]

I have a pony that objects to any broken mouthed bit for the same reasons... low palatte, big toungue. I use a traditional mullen mouthed eggbutt. It is legal for dressage, and looks like a "normal" bit. he roots and pulls with everything else. With this pony I figured less is more, and it was a good choice for him.

[angel]

Mullen mouth

[Halt At X]

How can you tell if your horse has a low palate?

I have my horse in a loose ring french link and I don't think he likes it. It's almost like he's grabbing the bit and biting it (not while mounted)?

[FriesianX]

I second PintoPiaffe - single link, slightly curved. Generally, I find a thinner mouthpiece also helps - and smaller rings on a loose ring. I use a Jaguar bradoon on my boy, and he's quite happy with it! Tried the Myler Comfort and he goes better in the Jag. I also tried a Baucher - it worked well on a gelding I use to have (same thing, big tongue, low pallet), but my stallion got very locked up in the baucher, and flexion became an issue.

I think the best bet is to have an assortment of bits in the tackroom and try a few until something works.

[Hampton Bay]

My 2-yo has a very small mouth too. I have bridled him just to get him used to the idea, and when I noticed that the chomping got worse, I peeked in his mouth and realized that he couldn't close his mouth without the bit poking into the palate.

I put my mare's JP single-joint baucher on his bridle, and instantly he closed his mouth and relaxed. My mare loves that bit too. I had to order it from the UK, but JP makes a full cheek with the same mouth that should work too.

[ideayoda]

A low palette has not arc and is essentially almost level bars, such a horse may do better in a french type snaffle.

Tongue pressure is much more problematic, but it also occurs when horse are held at the vertical or too shortened. If a horse take hh correctly, they stay (easily at a lower level) well ifv. Then the hh are more suggestions on the corners of the mouth, and allow for soft chewing and swallowing rather than a closed mouth where the bit acts on the bars/tongue. The single broken bit is much more suggestive to a proper response to a hh and to self carriage.

[RhythmTempo]

DMK wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambrey
Myler comfort snaffle.

Wide barrel version (no bridle hooks!).....

SO glad to hear this! I just bought the Myler wide barrel comfort snaffle. :yes: Hoping it works!

[Ambrey]

The single broken bit is much more suggestive to a proper response to a hh and to self carriage.

Why is this? I am interested :)

[ideayoda]

It is more likely to suggest chewing/mobilizing the jaw and still staying out to the hand (and ifv), and the hindleg will react more actively.. One the bit acts more on the bars (ie a curb), the horse will lower and likely close more (not the reaction wanted for a snaffle) and the stride gets flatter or short and jerky.

[Melissa.Hare.Jones]

How can you tell if your horse has a low palate?

Look in his mouth.
:yes:

(It helps to look in lots of mouths to compare and contrast. Just be careful of your fingers!)

[MaresNest]

I agree with those saying mullen mouth. That's what my low palate-d horse likes.

[EqTrainer]

Wide barrel version (no bridle hooks!) is exactly what worked on my horse with the same issue. He came in a regular snaffle, I swapped to a french link and then quickly o a happy mouth mullen mouth. He was much better in the MM, but it was still just physically "too much stuff" in his mouth. As soon as the comfort snaffles came out in a hookless version I tried the wide barrel one which is not a lot different than a skinny mullen mouth, and that made him happiest of the bunch. Somewhere along the way I tried a hackamore, a segunda, and a waterford just to see if they made him any happier - they were not only "no", but more like HELL no. The Segunda was off the bridle in 5 minutes. :p

Mine, too. It is the ONLY bit he is truly happy in. Sigh.

[Horsepower]

Get the little pamphlet book by Myler Bits. I think Dover Saddlery sells it, among other tack shops. It explains in detail what type of bit for what type of mouth. It is a wonderful book. You can even contact them and describe your situation and they will give you advice on what combinations to get. I once did this for a very difficult mouth to fit and the horse loved the bit.

[Daydream Believer]

I love my Sprenger Duo bit for my horse who has that kind of mouth. He fussed way too much with a double jointed bit. The Duo bit is a nice sculpted mullen mouth with room for the tongue .

[Incitatus]

Thanks for the suggestions. Coincidentally I have just borrowed a Myler comfort snaffle from a friend that I am going to try on Saturday when he is ridden next. I'm intrigued by the mullen mouth suggestions since he does have a large tongue it seems counterintuitive to have an unjointed mouthpiece but maybe its worth a try. Thanks again.

[Bogie]

My horse has the same challenge. A mullen mouth snaffle has always been my first choice for him. Second choice was a baucher.

[J-Lu]

Cool thread!

My horse also has a low palate and a thick tongue. Any link has to be small and smooth or she objects. She's not a fan of single-links as they hit her palate and put pressure on her bars. The bit we have settled on is the thin Sprenger loosering training bit - 14mm. She hangs on thicker bits but not on this one.

my two cents! Thanks for an educational thread!

J.

[ideayoda]

Put your hand in the mouth and see if that is true IF the bit hits in those places, it doesnt if the horse remains with a mobile jaw and ifv.

[angel]

Oh, yes! Put your hand in the horse's mouth to see the jaw "mobilize!":lol: I never noticed whether they stay in front of the vertical though.:eek:

[EqTrainer]

Put your hand in the mouth and see if that is true IF the bit hits in those places, it doesnt if the horse remains with a mobile jaw and ifv.

With all due respect, it seems like maybe you are doubting that a horse really can require a certain type of bit to be comfortable.

FWIW, I felt the same way for years - ALL my horses went in a french link. It was one of the things I loved about dressage - all those bit choices, basically taken away. Fix it by riding better! But the horse I have now has a low pallette and a thick tongue - and he HATES anything but a Myler Mullen Mouth. It has a huge curve in it and gives him plenty of room for his fat tongue but doesn't poke him in the roof of the mouth.

Stick my hand in there? I'll pass. Easy enough to read his responses without risking fingers!

[ideayoda]

But, there are no teeth where the bit goes.

[EqTrainer]

But, there are no teeth where the bit goes.


:uhoh: They are darn close :lol:

[Ambrey]

But, there are no teeth where the bit goes.

The canines can be pretty close, although I guess they don't pack much power ;)

[Go Fish]

I would recommend French link. However, this is a very mild bit so it's not useful for a horse that pulls or is strong. I have a horse with the same issues as yours and he's wonderful in the French link. He can't stand anything hitting the roof of his mouth and the curve of the bit relieves pressure on the tongue. The bit just seems to pull on the side of the mouth. I believe mine is a Myler bit.

[DARQHORSE]

My Tb had that problem and after MUCH trial and error we went with a KK Ultra D Ring. Worked WONDERS! Best bit ever. The mouth comes in a baucher cheek, and a loose ring as well.

[pintopiaffe]

But the horse I have now has a low pallette and a thick tongue - and he HATES anything but a Myler Mullen Mouth. It has a huge curve in it and gives him plenty of room for his fat tongue but doesn't poke him in the roof of the mouth.

Is it legal?

I think my guy would love one of them, but I've not bothered trying one, because I'm tired of knowing how amazingly he goes in a pelham, and never quite being able to reach that utopia because of RULES. :uhoh: :lol:

[Ambrey]

Is it legal?

I think my guy would love one of them, but I've not bothered trying one, because I'm tired of knowing how amazingly he goes in a pelham, and never quite being able to reach that utopia because of RULES. :uhoh: :lol:

The myler mullen is legal as long as it doesn't have hooks on the rings.

[EqTrainer]

Is it legal?

I think my guy would love one of them, but I've not bothered trying one, because I'm tired of knowing how amazingly he goes in a pelham, and never quite being able to reach that utopia because of RULES. :uhoh: :lol:


Yup, it is legal :)

[IAPonyGirl]

Timely thread. I'm having the same problem with my 3 yr. old connemara gelding. Non-existent palate its so low and fat fat tongue. I sent him out for driving training last year with the ultra kk, thought it was ok, this year for driving training he's been really fussy with the bit, the trainer tried a french link snaffle then switched to a really fat rubber mullen mouth which he is going the best in so far. Next year I will get him started under saddle for dressage but can you really start one under saddle that way in a mullen mouth? It really is legal?

[~Freedom~]

Is it legal?

I think my guy would love one of them, but I've not bothered trying one, because I'm tired of knowing how amazingly he goes in a pelham, and never quite being able to reach that utopia because of RULES. :uhoh: :lol:

Sure is and I even used it for years when I was showing one horse. Small mouth, big tongue and the unjointed mullem mouth was the only bit that worked.

It doesn't pinch or cramp that big tongue and they feel more comfortable.

[Incitatus]

Seems like the myler comfort snaffle is a success. We had control with a much quieter mouth. So far so good. Thanks all! Gotta love being able to come to you guys for advice/suggestions and opinions! George thanks you too!

[Iride]

This one is great for horses with thick tongues (the Pessoa Magic Relaxation bit). It is curved, has a copper center, eggbutt cheeks, low port giving room for the tongue, straight bars that don't collapse (and therefore it's actually safe for the palate). Has anyone else tried this bit? I ride jumpers so I'm not sure how common/legal it is for dressage; the lady at the store near me said she sells tons of them:

http://www.equestriancollections.com/itemmatrix.asp?groupcode=ER00836&ItemType=MG&source=ChannelAdvisor&utm_source=ChannelAdvisor&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=ER00836&CAWELAID=65487607

[Ambrey]

This one is great for horses with thick tongues (the Pessoa Magic Relaxation bit). It is curved, has a copper center, eggbutt cheeks, low port giving room for the tongue, straight bars that don't collapse (and therefore it's actually safe for the palate). Has anyone else tried this bit? I ride jumpers so I'm not sure how common/legal it is for dressage; the lady at the store near me said she sells tons of them:

http://www.equestriancollections.com/itemmatrix.asp?groupcode=ER00836&ItemType=MG&source=ChannelAdvisor&utm_source=ChannelAdvisor&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=ER00836&CAWELAID=65487607

Ported bits aren't legal for dressage :(

[Iride]

Ported bits aren't legal for dressage :(

Ah I see! Oh well...
Curious though, why are ported bits not legal?