sesage as sport vs. as duty

[Carol Ames]

Before dressage became a sport it was a duty (the army) or and art (noblemen). In the army, soldiers could learn to ride or die trying. Artwise, the noblemen took pride in practicing the art as closely to their ideals as possible. And since you have only yourself too fool, they sought and tried to be better all their riding lives.
In the modern sports world there is no such self-regulatory system. We have outside evaluation, rules and judges for competitions, and for winning you work on impressing the judges to judge you favorably and hopefully according to the rules. But horses and riders are all different, and judges, too. Rules written in words cannot be superimposed on a living form of art. So scores depends on how a judge interprets the rules, how he perceives the horse, and on the flavour of the month...
The rules of the FEI represent the same ideal as both German and French army cavalry schools abided by, and probably the same as the noblemen of old held as theirs. Alarmingly, they have started to change the rules quite a bit lately. Why would that be necessary? Horses have hardly changed. They still have four legs, and derive from carriage horses and thoroughbreds. What has changed, is the selection of people attempting to become dressage riders and competitors.

[class]

Alarmingly, they have started to change the rules quite a bit lately. Why would that be necessary?

specifically, which rules are being changed that you find alarming?

[ideayoda]

There are many changes in the last 20-50 years. The definition of piaffe (allowed to be vertical), the definition of shoulder in, the definition of what constitutes a balanced horse (modified), the explaination of the contact of a balanced/legerete horse (eliminated all together), and that is just off the top quickly. Removal of defintions. Other changes of test: removal of the rocker, changes in the zig/zag, shortening of the tests (elimates the ability to use collection/extension as clearly), lack of showing certain exercises on circles, lack of time between movements, again, just a few of them.

[class]

i assumed lately meant sometime in the past year or two, not the past 50 years.

[ideayoda]

Some of those things are within the last couple of years, but training is about a continuem and logical progression now or earlier. The question is why they were changed, and what happened after the changes. Those who do not understand the past is doomed to repeat the problems (ie bauchers first method). ie the s.i. was changed (in the 60s) to prevent the hindquarter being lost in too much angle (and therefore LY), and now it has been returned to the angle again (and perhaps the same problems will arise).

[jcotton]

What is Sesage? Never heard of sesage.

[merrygoround]

Some of those things are within the last couple of years, but training is about a continuem and logical progression now or earlier. The question is why they were changed, and what happened after the changes. Those who do not understand the past is doomed to repeat the problems (ie bauchers first method). ie the s.i. was changed (in the 60s) to prevent the hindquarter being lost in too much angle (and therefore LY), and now it has been returned to the angle again (and perhaps the same problems will arise).

You lost me on the S/I, I have always ridden it the same way, and I started riding it in the 60's. It has always been a movement on three tracks, ridden off the inside leg, supported by the outside leg. the inside rein should be nearly superfluous.

[ideayoda]

The si was traditionally schooled (on an fei horse) on four tracks because of the degree of lateral bending they are capable of (based upon 6/8m voltes). Thus the angle was 35 degrees, that part was removed along about the 60s,and replaced with other descriptions than the 35 degrees, and was suggested to be on three tracks so that the hindlegs did not cross. Lessened difficult (particularly/appropriately) for lower/medium levels. Now it has been returned to 35 degrees. What will happen as a result should be interesting. Too few riders ride an honestly bent round the inside leg nearer the girth, many one sees bring the inside leg backward and get the angle by riding like LY which will never result in greater lateral flexability nor reach forward with the (outside) shoulders. If one rider SI as a LY it will be neither engaging nor advantageous for collection.

[merrygoround]

The si was traditionally schooled (on an fei horse) on four tracks because of the degree of lateral bending they are capable of (based upon 6/8m voltes). Thus the angle was 35 degrees, that part was removed along about the 60s,and replaced with other descriptions than the 35 degrees, and was suggested to be on three tracks so that the hindlegs did not cross. Lessened difficult (particularly/appropriately) for lower/medium levels. Now it has been returned to 35 degrees. What will happen as a result should be interesting. Too few riders ride an honestly bent round the inside leg nearer the girth, many one sees bring the inside leg backward and get the angle by riding like LY which will never result in greater lateral flexability nor reach forward with the (outside) shoulders. If one rider SI as a LY it will be neither engaging nor advantageous for collection.

And I deal with a twerp who gives me 4 tracks in H/I. I find that easy to spot on the mirror (when I get close enough :D) He could be doing the same thing in S/I and I probably couldn't see it, because his barrel is in the way. I will try.

[Janet]

What is Sesage? Never heard of sesage.
I suggest you read Carol's profile before you pick on her typos. We are lucky she is able to type at all.

[class]

but there's not a single typo in her entire post?

[Janet]

but there's not a single typo in her entire post?
"Sesage" is a typo for "Dressage"

[class]

sorry, i wasn't including the title when i said there wasn't a typo in the post.

[FriesianX]

"Sesage" is a typo for "Dressage"

In Cotton's defense, I was wondering the same thing - what is "sesage"? Never dawned on me it was a typo, I was thinking it was an old military movement!

[Dune]

"Sesage" is a typo for "Dressage"

It was a genuine question, I thought the same thing but am familiar with her, this reply should've been your first one.:yes:

[Janet]

It was a genuine question, I thought the same thing but am familiar with her, this reply should've been your first one.:yes:
Sorry. It was so obvious - to me- that "sesage" was a typo for "Dressage" that I didn't think I needed to spell it out.

[Dune]

Sorry. It was so obvious - to me- that "sesage" was a typo for "Dressage" that I didn't think I needed to spell it out.


NO worries, it wasn't quite as obvious to the rest of us at first, and I didn't want anyone to be put off. :cool: