Racing and breeding

[merrygoround]

In the racing industry it does not appear that a horse both actively races, and goes to the breeding shed. So owners hustle them off the track and to the farm, because that's where the money is. They then never return to the track.

In the sport horse industry it is the norm, to compete, and simultaeously stand at stud. Although it is somewhat frustrating to mare owners,at times.

Am I correct in this? Has it always been this way? I doubt it.

Comments?

[LaurieB]

In the sport horse world, I believe that the majority of breeding is done by AI. Thoroughbreds are only bred live cover. So basically the problem is that they can't be in two places at once.

Breeding, for most TB stallions, is a full time job for at least six months of the year. They also tend to lose a lot of condition. So bringing them back to the track and getting them fit and ready to race again, both physically and mentally, during the other half-year would be difficult, if not impossible.

[Showpony]

They also don't want to take a chance of them getting hurt to where they can't breed for any length of time or have to be put down. Not worth the risk when they can make so much money at stud.

[Texarkana]

They also don't want to take a chance of them getting hurt to where they can't breed for any length of time or have to be put down. Not worth the risk when they can make so much money at stud.

I don't think money is as much of a factor as people assume it is. If a horse could race AND breed, he would be bringing in money year round. Plus, he could potentially be increasing his worth in the shed the more he won.

It is really more of a logistical problem like LaurieB said-- it's hard to keep a horse racing and breeding fit simultaneously, especially when the stallion has to LC the mares.

[sk_pacer]

Tajma Hall, who is currently racing at Edmonton Northlands does both and he isnt the first Standardbred stallion to race after breeding season. I am sure that he is bred lc as there is no mention of shipping semen for him. This tough 10 yo just set the track record (1:50.3) on 10 May, breaking the record he himself set in 2005. Just a few years ago, Rambaran was doing double duty, retiring from the track at age 13. There have been more, lots more, mostly less notable.

[Texarkana]

Tajma Hall, who is currently racing at Edmonton Northlands does both and he isnt the first Standardbred stallion to race after breeding season. I am sure that he is bred lc as there is no mention of shipping semen for him. This tough 10 yo just set the track record (1:50.3) on 10 May, breaking the record he himself set in 2005. Just a few years ago, Rambaran was doing double duty, retiring from the track at age 13. There have been more, lots more, mostly less notable.

Those standardbreds do some cool stuff. :D

[Evalee Hunter]

. . . . Breeding, for most TB stallions, is a full time job for at least six months of the year. They also tend to lose a lot of condition. So bringing them back to the track and getting them fit and ready to race again, both physically and mentally, during the other half-year would be difficult, if not impossible.

And, for the so-called "shuttle stallions" who move to the Southern Hemisphere for their breeding season (July - January or thereabouts), breeding is a full time job 12 months of the year.

Tajma Hall, who is currently racing at Edmonton Northlands does both and he isnt the first Standardbred stallion to race after breeding season. I am sure that he is bred lc as there is no mention of shipping semen for him. This tough 10 yo just set the track record (1:50.3) on 10 May, breaking the record he himself set in 2005. Just a few years ago, Rambaran was doing double duty, retiring from the track at age 13. There have been more, lots more, mostly less notable.

The thing I wonder here is ... how many mares are they covering? The more popular TBs are covering 100 or more mares a year, even if they breed in the Northern Hemisphere only.

There have been TBs that did both ... according to the book, Seabiscuit, he both bred & raced. Certainly, tradition is part of the reason that more TB stallions don't do both, but all the reasons mentioned by various posters are important, too.

[sk_pacer]

And, for the so-called "shuttle stallions" who move to the Southern Hemisphere for their breeding season (July - January or thereabouts), breeding is a full time job 12 months of the year.



The thing I wonder here is ... how many mares are they covering? The more popular TBs are covering 100 or more mares a year, even if they breed in the Northern Hemisphere only.

There have been TBs that did both ... according to the book, Seabiscuit, he both bred & raced. Certainly, tradition is part of the reason that more TB stallions don't do both, but all the reasons mentioned by various posters are important, too.

We have shuttle horses too, lots of them, locally it is As Promised.

As to how many mares these horses are covering, I have no idea, but can tell you there are lots of Rambaran babies around and some are pretty old babies....he did live and AI. Tajma Hall does have quite a few on the ground too, but until the last year or so, he wasnt even looked at. Now, you see his 'kids' in lesser races on the cards in Edmonton....lesser only because of age and lack of earnings - they seem to be able to win races, but not the speed yet.

[Texarkana]

There have been TBs that did both ... according to the book, Seabiscuit, he both bred & raced. Certainly, tradition is part of the reason that more TB stallions don't do both, but all the reasons mentioned by various posters are important, too.

Yes, there have been... but IIRC, didn't Seabiscuit only sire a dozen foals or so?

It would be really hard for a stallion today to manage any sort of sizeable book and continue a racing career. Not impossible, but definitely hard. And I feel that's where the money issue comes in.

[Nijinsky]

Seabiscuit sired way more than a dozen check it out here http://www.pedigreequery.com/progeny/seabiscuit

I think it is a good thing that potential sires are retired early from racing before they break down.

I mean come on, people cry out that race horses are raced too hard and that trainers and owners are mean and don't care about the horses. It is easier to breed a sound horse than a lame one, and yes money is a huge factor when it comes to breeding them.

WWW.CALIFORNIARACEHORSE.NET

[jengersnap]

While it's cool to see a horse still racing while his own offsprings are also coming on to the track, unfortunately Tajma Hall is hardly what I would consider a high profile sire. He only has 10 horses racing or coming into racing this year, and will only cover 6 mares for 2008.

We're just going to breed him to our own six mares this spring. It's too hard to collect semen, ship it to where it needs to go, and still keep him in training and racing. There'll be lots of time for him to be a sire when his racing career is done. In fact, though, I may be ready to retire before he is.

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/iss0308/tajmahallstillgoing0326.html

That said, he sounds like the right stuff to propagate. :)

I know my husband had a Vitriolic son in his early teens back in the 80's that he bred to a Polynesian bred mare, and then he put the stallion back into racing another year no problem. The owner of the horse before him had done the same. But again, that was limited breeding. Last time we saw the owners of said horse (he sold him as a stud a year later) he was still alive up here and in his 30's, well past fertility and turned out with his also-elderly favorite girlfriend. :)

[sk_pacer]

While it's cool to see a horse still racing while his own offsprings are also coming on to the track, unfortunately Tajma Hall is hardly what I would consider a high profile sire. He only has 10 horses racing or coming into racing this year, and will only cover 6 mares for 2008.



I realise he isn't high profile, however, he IS an oddity. He is a rather hard luck horse - raced at 2, was paied up for some major stakes (don't ask, can't remember now) and got sick. Was apparently up in the air if he would race again. Now, here he is at age 10 still winning, and breeding afew select mares. He is listed at private treaty, and that generally means very expensive or select mares only. I did see him go one time when he was 2, and he was something. We, out west, consider him to be the next good one here, simply because of his genetics and his staying power.

[merrygoround]

In the sport horse world, I believe that the majority of breeding is done by AI. Thoroughbreds are only bred live cover. So basically the problem is that they can't be in two places at once.

Breeding, for most TB stallions, is a full time job for at least six months of the year. They also tend to lose a lot of condition. So bringing them back to the track and getting them fit and ready to race again, both physically and mentally, during the other half-year would be difficult, if not impossible.

Don't forget that AI usually involves the use of a mare, not THE mare, but a mare, even with a phantom, and most AI is cooled semen, not frozen. So it usually means many collections even if you can split a collection into several shipments.

[DickHertz]

There have been a few who have failed at stud or were infertile that tried to come back to racing and in the cases I've seen they didn't do much. There was one who I saw in a $10,000 claiming race at Mountaineer about 4-5 years ago (not remembrer his name is going to drive me nuts).

There was another one at Santa Anita or Hollywood Park this spring (it was trained by Doug O'Neill and was claimed out of the race). Anyone remember who this was?

[Showpony]

Your right, that is probably true about the "cheaper" stallions. I was thinking more about Big Brown and similar racehorses that have nothing to prove and can make far more at stud than racing.

[I'm EBO]

Is it me, or does it all seem a little skewed? The fastest horse gets the biggest breeding fees, so never races again. Wouldn't it be a good joke on us if there are thousands of closet John Henrys out there that we'll never know about?