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winona
May. 13, 2008, 08:34 AM
i have been using easyboot bares for a couple years now and have loved the freedom of hoof protection only when needed. i also love not being dependent on my farrier. i ride a lot of hard packed dirt roads and feel comfortable moving out w/ out fear of concussion problems.

unfortunately i had an incident and have lost faith. my horse and i ended up in deep mud while avoiding a car. she became nervous and we started out of the mud. she ended up leaping out and then rearing and taking off at a gallop. all of it is highly unusual for her. she is very experienced and is fine in mud. the car stopped quite aways from us so don't believe that was the issue.

two easy boot bares were torn off. these had new gaiters. i think they collected the mud and made it hard for her to move. i wonder if she reared and bolted because they were flopping against her legs? the only other time she half bolted was when a boot tore away from a gaiter (my fault as i knew it was starting to tear)

so now i don't know what i'm going to do. i will have a fear of mud for sure. i have ridden since age 10...now 40, and this was first major injury. i don't bounce so well anymore :winkgrin: i have a broken wrist and mushed face so have a few weeks before i have to decide anything. might need surgery which will delay it even further. i'll probably have to do shoes for awhile just because of pain issues.

any similar occurences? thanks for letting me vent

Auventera Two
May. 13, 2008, 09:10 AM
Get Epics instead. The more I use the Bares the more I think they are a crappy design. :no: You can NOT get them tight enough. I have lost the Bares in mud too but never lost an Epic. When I take the Epics off, they are clean and dry inside. When I take off the Bares, they are FULL of rocks and mud. So much that I have to scrape them out with a hoof pick and a garden hose. It's ridiculous. I won't be recommending Bares to anyone unless they ride on perfectly flat, smooth dry land. Epics on the otherhand I have NEVER had these issues with!

Guilherme
May. 13, 2008, 09:58 AM
We tried EasyBoots 15 years ago and found them wanting in many respects.

First, each Boot had to fitted to each foot or you got REALLY bad "heel galls."

Second, they were the Devil's Own Business to get on and off. A screwdriver was an absolute must.

Third, they were highly unsuitable in many of our local riding venues. We get just short of 60" of rain per year in our valley (we are the third wettest place in North America, after a couple of locales in the PNW). This means lots of water crossings and lots of mud. The Boots would quickly fill with water. Even when we drilled "drain holes" in them they retained enough to give a hoof a good soaking over time. As noted, mud can pull one or more off even when properly applied.

In the fall, our dry season, they tended to fill up with dirt, rock dust, and debris resulting in a "sandpaper" effect on the hoof.

We really didn't use them long enough to comment on their durability, but when we're working hard we wear out a set of iron shoes in about five weeks. AFAIK rubber is not more wear resistant than iron.

We abandoned the trial and have not tried other brands. I've looked at other offerings at some of the large "equine marketplaces" that spring up from time to time and have found the same fundamental design flaws in every model I've looked at. Some were clearly better engineered than others, but none would be suitable for our use.

So we stick with traditional shoeing. It's what our horses need for the uses we make of them.

G.

Auventera Two
May. 13, 2008, 10:13 AM
As for wear and durability - shoes are on a horse 24/7. Boots are on for the few hours you ride and then they're off. In my experience, boots FAR outlast shoes. I have a couple sets of boots that are on their second full season of wear.

JHUshoer20
May. 13, 2008, 10:25 AM
i have been using easyboot bares for a couple years now and have loved the freedom of hoof protection only when needed. i also love not being dependent on my farrier. i ride a lot of hard packed dirt roads and feel comfortable moving out w/ out fear of concussion problems.

unfortunately i had an incident and have lost faith. my horse and i ended up in deep mud while avoiding a car. she became nervous and we started out of the mud. she ended up leaping out and then rearing and taking off at a gallop. all of it is highly unusual for her. she is very experienced and is fine in mud. the car stopped quite aways from us so don't believe that was the issue.

two easy boot bares were torn off. these had new gaiters. i think they collected the mud and made it hard for her to move. i wonder if she reared and bolted because they were flopping against her legs? the only other time she half bolted was when a boot tore away from a gaiter (my fault as i knew it was starting to tear)

so now i don't know what i'm going to do. i will have a fear of mud for sure. i have ridden since age 10...now 40, and this was first major injury. i don't bounce so well anymore :winkgrin: i have a broken wrist and mushed face so have a few weeks before i have to decide anything. might need surgery which will delay it even further. i'll probably have to do shoes for awhile just because of pain issues.

any similar occurences? thanks for letting me vent

Correct thinking. Sometimes it takes injuries and pain to overcome foolishness. Lesson well learned. Get your horse shod;)
George

Auventera Two
May. 13, 2008, 10:28 AM
Foolishness? :lol: :rolleyes:

Would it be fair to say that shoeing is pure foolishness because those Easywalker shoes have done a lot of damage to horses with their extreme flexibility? Or those Cytek iron shoes with their huge nail holes and inability to shape them?

The Bares are ONE DESIGN of hoof boot, and ONE DESIGN only. If that ONE DESIGN does not meet your needs and fails to perform adequately in your situation, then you can either try a DIFFERENT DESIGN, or you can pursue other options, including shoeing.

It's really that simple and not fair at all to imply that those of us who use hoof boots are fools. It's no more fair than saying that those who shoe horses are fools based on the disasterous results of Easywalker or Cytek, or whatever other design you can think of that's caused problems. Grow up George and try to converse objectively. The attacks by you farriers here on the intelligence of others is REALLY getting sickening. [edit] Sheesh.

JHUshoer20
May. 13, 2008, 10:48 AM
Foolishness? :lol: :rolleyes:

Would it be fair to say that shoeing is pure foolishness because those Easywalker shoes have done a lot of damage to horses with their extreme flexibility? Or those Cytek iron shoes with their huge nail holes and inability to shape them?
My opinions on fad shoeing, junk science and trash products is pretty well known. Check some of the stuff I've said about plastic shoes and natural bs.
[QUOTE]

[edit]

The OP is smartening up. She sees shoeing as being in the best interest of her horse. [edit].
George

bt
May. 13, 2008, 10:51 AM
can't lose what I never had

Auventera Two
May. 13, 2008, 10:55 AM
Shoes - no shoes - boots - no boots.....it's a decision that each owner makes for each horse on an individual basis. PERIOD. I can NOT for the life of me figure out why people have to turn it into a fight with name calling. This horse owner can try other boots if she wants, or she can go back to shoes. It's really NOT a dramatic situation.

I cannot understand the need for "BUA compatriots and foolishness" talk. It's just a decision to make. That's it. And whatever she decides I'm sure will be just fine for her situation.

Why is it that anytime someone makes a different decision than you do, they are a fool/uneducated/idiot/BUA, etc. But if they choose shoes they are "smarter." Nobody is smarter or stupider than anyone else. Everybody just makes a decision based on the info they have, and their situation, coupled with their individual views. Doesn't make me stupid, and doesn't make you smart, or vice versa. It's just a different way of doing things fergodsake.

I wish the moderators could pare this crap out of these boards. It completely ruins the forums.

saratoga
May. 13, 2008, 10:55 AM
I'm sorry that you got hurt and hope you heal up okay.

I've never tried Bares but am using Epics and Renegades for almost a year now. Where I live, there is never much mud, so I cant really speak to that. The boots are working well overall but shoeing is most definitely easier. I have NEVER had a horse lose a shoe and all I had to do was schedule and pay the farrier.

Like I said, my boot experience overall has been good and I feel good that my horses' feet look much better, but there are definitely hassles involved. For both the Renegades and the Epics, I get only so much use until something on them breaks and I have to get them fixed. I've also had equipment failure on the trail which stinks too. It doesnt happen often but of course always seems to happen at the worse possible times! I have not been able to get to many endurance rides this year but I will see how I feel about the boots when I am doing a lot of rides, hopefully soon.

Moderator 1
May. 13, 2008, 12:36 PM
As per the previous post, everyone please return to the original topic. You're all welcome to provide your different opinions on solutions to the OP's experience, but do not engage in general redundant battles in the middle of threads.

Hit an alert if you feel commentary is inappropriate.

Thanks,
Mod 1

Jumpin_Horses
May. 13, 2008, 12:47 PM
FYI - Ive seen shoes get pulled (no, RIPPED off) off in mud too.

I like the Old Mac G2. they are only like $40 more than the Epics. and they fit the horse better, provide better traction, and are much more user friendly.

valleyvet is the best place to get them.

good luck

Guilherme
May. 13, 2008, 01:04 PM
Certainly mud can suck off a shoe. But I've never had TN mud suck a shoe off any of our horses. Not so with EasyBoots. ;)

Like I say in OUR environment (very wet for six months, wet for three, dry for three) they just don't work anywhere off well prepared surfaces. Since we go on a lot of unprepared surfaces they are seriously wanting for us. YMMV.

As to the other brands I still see serious deficiencies for our area and use. Again, YMMV.

G.

Shadow14
May. 13, 2008, 01:09 PM
Certainly mud can suck off a shoe.
G.

How can mud suck a shoe off??? There is little for the mud to get a hold of with a shoe?? Could it not be that the foot was slowed down enough that the shoe was stepped off???

winona
May. 13, 2008, 03:23 PM
i'm sorry that this thread turned into another battle re:boots vs. shoes. i take offense to being called "foolish and stupid". i have loved boot use before this and will keep using them to some degree. i won't have much choice for awhile since i'm one-handed and won't know how painful my wrist will be even once healed. also farriers, esp. good ones are very hard to find around here.

A.T.--thanks for the input on the epics as i've never tried them.

pines4equines
May. 13, 2008, 03:32 PM
I've been using the Easyboot Epics however they do seem to wear a bit quick. I've had mine a year and will be replacing shortly. I had bought the Old Macs many years ago and that first pair lasted me almost 5 years!!! When I replaced with the new Old Macs, apparently made in China, the sole was so hard that it made the bottom very slippery. We would slip on any sort of slick rock whereas the previous pair of Old Macs, the sole was softer, had a great grip.

Again, I am now in Easyboot Epics and while they wear a bit quicker, I like the grip on the bottom and have not had anything come off while in mud. We're in the NE so we're pretty muddy here too.

Thanks for the info on the Easyboot Bares. I was going to try but now, I'll replace with Epics. GOod luck with your horse!

Auventera Two
May. 13, 2008, 03:46 PM
Winona - Shoeing might be the better option for you if you're one handed :eek:, at least until you see how you heal up. Ouch, sorry to hear that. :( If you can put boots on with one hand then you deserve a special paid holiday. They're hard to get on with two good hands. :lol: If you do decide to try Epics, or some other type, they're easier to get on than Bares. Of all of them, I think Bares are the most difficult to get on.

Tamara in TN
May. 13, 2008, 03:50 PM
two easy boot bares were torn off. these had new gaiters. any similar occurences? thanks for letting me vent

yep...which is why we don't use them :winkgrin:

best

Tamara in TN
May. 13, 2008, 03:52 PM
[QUOTE=Shadow14;3208832]How can mud suck a shoe off??? There is little for the mud to get a hold of with a shoe?? QUOTE]

very deep red clay mud can form an adhesion to the hoof and loose nails on shoes are made looser by the mud...complicated in that is actual turnout in red clay mud as well as riding in same...to "suck a shoe" is a fairly common thing...

best

NC Trail Girl
May. 13, 2008, 03:54 PM
I've had my Epics (same pair) for 2 years. I live in the Mtns. of western NC and used them pretty often. (not always same horse).

I have ZERO complaints about the Epics. I did purcase a pair of Bares and immediately tossed them on ebay. They were so hard to put on and didn't fit as well as the Epics.

We do, on average 15 miles per weekend day of riding. Sometime up to 30. They have gone thru mud bogs, jumps, rivers, red clay, you name it ;) - and the worst that has happened has the metal clip flipped up (boots stayed on).

I wouldn't give up on the boots just yet. If you aren't riding, then maint. trims are all you horse should need. If you invested this much time and interest in your horses welfare, no need to shoe while the horse is on a break ;)

There is no telling what caused your horse to get upset, could have stepped on something sharp in the mud, could have gotten stung, really no telling.

I hope you get to feeling better soon.

mbj
May. 13, 2008, 03:56 PM
Haven't had a problem with mud and creek crossings and epics here in Pa. Of course if horse panics and flails almost any boot or shoe may get pulled off by a foot standing on it. Old Macs also stay on but can rub more IME.

Kyzteke
May. 13, 2008, 04:18 PM
How can mud suck a shoe off??? There is little for the mud to get a hold of with a shoe?? Could it not be that the foot was slowed down enough that the shoe was stepped off???

I've seen it happen more than once. If you have a loose nail (or two) the mud can move the shoe around. And then it forms sort of this sucking vacumn that can pop a shoe right off. And I've seen metal shoes torn off that did alot of foot damage when they came off (not sure if that happens with boots).

I agree with A2 -- why do these choices have to get so personal? I am now investigating the boot situation and not sure what I will choose (boots or shoes) for which horse, but either way it's nice to have options.

There are SOOOO many ways to "skin a cat..." why not explore some of the many choices we have out there?

Shadow14
May. 13, 2008, 04:46 PM
I agree with A2 -- why do these choices have to get so personal? ?

How is wondering how muck sucks a shoe off getting personal?? Do you own the muck that is causing the problem???

winona
May. 13, 2008, 06:19 PM
thanks for the kind replies.
guess when i'm able i'll try the epics and see how it goes. i went to the scene of the crime today and found the 2 missing boots up the road. now i know thats what spooked her so.

JHUshoer20
May. 13, 2008, 06:22 PM
Shoes - no shoes - boots - no boots.....it's a decision that each owner makes for each horse on an individual basis. PERIOD. I can NOT for the life of me figure out why people have to turn it into a fight with name calling. This horse owner can try other boots if she wants, or she can go back to shoes. It's really NOT a dramatic situation.


I cannot understand the need for "BUA compatriots and foolishness" talk. It's just a decision to make. That's it. And whatever she decides I'm sure will be just fine for her situation. That being the case I hope she'll also speak to an attorney. Sounds like a good product liability case to me. She's hurt because of boots. wouldn't have happened with shoes. Period.


Why is it that anytime someone makes a different decision than you do, they are a fool/uneducated/idiot/BUA, etc. But if they choose shoes they are "smarter." Because getting her horse shod is in the best interest of her horse. (Not to mention her own personal safety) Thats what it's really all about. You see many choices and options. Horse shoers only see one. The best. Anything less than the best is not good enough for the OPs horse or any other horse.


I wish the moderators could pare this crap out of these boards. It completely ruins the forums.
On this we can agree. How about a 3 day time out for anybody who posts a link to a BUA site?

Problem is I think the mods enjoy the entertainment too much.

[edit]

I recommend shoeing and get a bunch of grief. You need to sit down and behave yourself. Don't make me go get Mr Stovall!:D
George

matryoshka
May. 13, 2008, 06:28 PM
Mud/muck pulling shoes and boots off.

Often the reason both shoes and boots get pulled off in mud is that trying to pull a foot from the mud slows the hoof down, so a hind foot can easily catch it. It's usually the hind foot that pulls the boot or the shoe off. Ever see "sprung" shoes on a trail or stuck in mud? That's from a hind foot catching it.

My horse can be clutzy and needs a very short breakover. Anything that keeps his front foot on the ground a little longer (such as the mud at the edge of the streame) could result in a pulled boot or ripped gaiter. My horse has gone through several gaiters this way.

I recently tried Bares because I liked the tread. Ripped the darn gaiter in the second ride. I think the bungee stretched during the stride and allowed the boot to stay down a little longer than it should. Ripped gaiter. :mad:

Fortunatly, you can order the upclips from Easycare and install them instead of the bungee. That is what I'm going to do. I prefer the upclip to the regular Epic clip anyway. You don't need a hoofpick to loosen it, and you don't have to step on the clip to close it. Right now I only have the upclips on my horse's hind boots because one of his front boots was old and had rivets. I have to combind two different sized boots to make them short enough for Butch's feet.

gypsymare
May. 13, 2008, 09:13 PM
Wow. I'm glad to know that about the bares. I've been going back and forth about which type of boots to get. Anyone know how easy/hard it is to pull the gaiters off of the epics? I'd like to be able to remove them if I decide to do a CTR.... and not have to buy a whole additional set of regular easy boots.

rideapaso
May. 13, 2008, 11:47 PM
I love the Bares and use them on my Paso Fino. They did not work on my Arab because she would hit the back of her front hooves with the rear boots. She went much better with shoes. The Epics drove me crazy with those clips that kept coming unclipped and while they never came off, the clicking noise was very annoying. I'll stick with the Bares -- and once adjusted properly they are pretty easy to put on and take off. I've been through mud with them with no problems. Basically, I use what works for whatever horse I'm riding. My Paso would need pads with his shoes as most of the roads I condition on are gravelly and he has ouchy feet. I'd rather leave him barefoot in his pasture and boot him when riding than have him in shoes and pads 24/7. So ... as with everything else concerning horse -- not one size fits all. You have to experiment and see what works best.

I'm trying the Renegades next .....:winkgrin:

matryoshka
May. 13, 2008, 11:49 PM
gypsymare, you can take the gaiters off of Epics, but the screws might be too long. It would be easier to buy the Easyboots and then order gaters online. I still recommend the Upclips!

I'm EBO
May. 14, 2008, 01:03 AM
Mud Sucks! Especially the gooey clay we have here. I've had my wellies sucked off, lost nailed-on shoes, etc.

Maybe for your horse, another brand would be better. I currently prefer the Hoof Wings. The people are good to work with, too. www.horsesneaker.com

Dune
May. 14, 2008, 04:05 AM
Mud sucks!! However, boots are a liability in this regard for SURE! This would not have happened if your horse had been correctly shod. I hope that you heal well, your horse is fine and that you find your way to a good farrier! :yes:

patti
May. 14, 2008, 06:14 AM
... and whatever works ...

Two of my favorite phrases whose truth I've learned over and over again during the time that I've been around horses, and particularly in endurance riding.

I was just thinking last night how glad I was for my easy boots (the "old" style). One of our horses managed to wrangle off a shoe screwing around in the pasture. I grabbed up one of my lovely RED easyboots, cleaned off his foot, popped that easy boot on (practicepracticepractice) and tacked him up for a ride. The boot stayed on for creek crossings, rocks, mud and a wahoo gallop up our hill.

We've got three horses who have roundish feet and work well in easyboots. Sure, we have to prep the boots and fit them, but geez, easy boots have gotten us through more than one endurance ride when we've thrown a shoe, and I've conditioned in them as a spare tire more than once. I've also used them as impromptu "pads" for a horse with owie soles for two loops of a 100 a couple of years ago. He cruised through the rocks with so much more confidence and comfort.

The poor kid who lost his shoe yesterday is going to go to a fancy shmancy dressage clinic wearing his red spare tire on Friday. :-)

--Patti

rmh
May. 14, 2008, 08:12 AM
JHUshoer20.... [edit] Just what we need another frivolous lawsuit because a horse didn't do what is was supposed to do. The horse should sue the owner for putting it in that position. [edit]

Auventera Two
May. 14, 2008, 08:42 AM
I love the Bares and use them on my Paso Fino. They did not work on my Arab because she would hit the back of her front hooves with the rear boots. She went much better with shoes. The Epics drove me crazy with those clips that kept coming unclipped and while they never came off, the clicking noise was very annoying. I'll stick with the Bares --

For about 5 cents each, you can put cotter pins in the Epics clips and they won't come loose or click. :) You can order them in packs of 10 from Easycare, or you can just buy them at a hardware or farm supply store.

JHUshoer20
May. 14, 2008, 08:47 AM
JHUshoer20.... what an id**t. Just what we need another frivolous lawsuit because a horse didn't do what is was supposed to do. The horse should sue the owner for putting it in that position. How D**B.
A personal injury sustained due to the marketing of a trash product you think frivolous? In your opinion how (besides having the horse properly shod) could this have been prevented?

I'm sure if she sues she'll get a settlement. If the case is without merit as you think she'd lose nothing by pursuing her legal rights.
George

Daydream Believer
May. 14, 2008, 08:52 AM
I've seen horses flip over that stepped on shoes while galloping XC and I've seen them rip chunks of hoof wall off and cause injury that took months to heal as well as suspensory injuries. I've seen shoes pulled in mud a great deal and have had my share of frustrations over the years with pulled shoes and getting farriers out to put them back on...not to mention hours once spent walking a pasture looking for a fancy bar shoe that my horse pulled just walking around the pasture. I've seen bell boots cause wrecks also. This is the first time I've heard of hoof boots causing a big problem for anyone but I suppose that anytime you put something on your horses legs and feet, you run that risk regardless of what form it takes.

Auventera Two
May. 14, 2008, 09:01 AM
Two nights ago I did a 12 mile ride and while maneuvering between a gate and a little drop off with water at the bottom, my horse spooked and hung my leg up on the gate. She bolted and I couldn't stop her because I was trying to save my leg from being ripped out of the socket. I did get loose and was relatively unharmed though I have a sore hip and back now. The gate was only about 10 feet from the highway and she was on the other side of the road before she stopped. I wasn't asking her to stop because my reins were loose and I was in shock from the leg hang up. If there had been a car coming, we both would have been seriously injured, or killed. The speed limit is 55 and cars go 70. Should I sue the land owner because it was his gate? We have permission to ride there. This is why landowners are so terrified to grand trail access to riders - all this talk of sueing people blind. It's really disturbing.

Accidents happen around horses. Your girth can break during a full gallop. Your horse can slip and fall. Your bridle can fall apart and you have no control. Equipment fails. Shoes get pulled. Horses step off boots. It happens.

What about the few horses in history who have slipped and went over a cliff on the Tevis trail? Could the shoe manufacturers be sued because if the horse had more traction, he wouldn't have gone over the cliff? :confused:

Accidents happen around horses. That's just the way it is.

Bank of Dad
May. 14, 2008, 09:08 AM
AT, glad you're OK, that incident sounds as scarey as mine.

Daydream Believer
May. 14, 2008, 09:09 AM
Yes, good point Vickie. Let's sue a farrier if your horse flips over while galloping because he stepped on a shoe and the person ended up in the hospital....I'm being facetious but I agree with Vickie...crap happens and in this scenario, the OP doesn't even know if the boots were why her horse bolted or not. I'm awfully sorry she got hurt and glad it wasn't worse.

One suggestion for boot users...desensitize your horses to the possibility that they might come loose, hang from the gaiter and bang on their leg. The first time that happens should not be on the side of a highway but in a safe round pen or in a stall where your horse can learn that it's not going to hurt them.

Moderator 1
May. 14, 2008, 09:10 AM
A reminder that the thread title is "lost faith in easyboots" not "seeking legal advice on accident." Stay on topic. ;)

Thanks,
Mod 1

Auventera Two
May. 14, 2008, 09:10 AM
Thanks BoD. It was scary. :eek: It's like that one moment where you can't think straight because you don't know what to do. All I could focus on was getting my knee on the same side of the gate as the horse. Ugh. Stuff happens so fast. She's such a nice little mare and very smart but I don't know what happened. She just looked down at that drop with the water and panicked/bolted sideways and forward. Now - in all honestly, the drop was about 18". Not like it was a cliff or anything. LOL. That's the scariest near miss I believe I've ever had.

kozykidscompany
May. 14, 2008, 11:15 AM
I have been using the Renegade boots for a few months. I'm thirlled with them. I'm an endurance rider, I was using easy boot epics but the gaiter was causing rubs. I didn't like having to use vet wrap to stop rubbing. The vet wrap I feel created heat. So no complaints with the renegades. Fit is very important, thats why you have to buy them and have them fit by a hoof care person. They now have glue on boots for competition which i will be trying in June on a tough Canadian ride.
diane

matryoshka
May. 14, 2008, 03:43 PM
JHshoer, your comments about boots will have more credibilty if you actually have experience with them. If you think they are a trash product, then please list why from your own experience in riding with them. I have heard of a shoer getting sued when a shod horse slipped on pavement resulting in injuries to the rider. It was six years in court before it was determined not to be the shoer's fault since the client didn't ask for borium. His lawyer was the only one who benefitted in that case. If I were you I wouldn't advocate somebody initiating a law suit due to and accident that could have happend shod, booted, or barefoot.

There are many of us who do a lot of miles in boots, and while finding the right boot for our horses can be aggravating, they are not trash products. My boy goes great in OM's. They look awful, but I really don't care since he puts a lot of miles on them and they are holding up great so far. We use Epics on the hinds, but I don't like the tread: it is slippery on wet grass.

I'm thinking that bungee closure system made it easier for the boots to be sucked off, since they stretch. If this is a problem and you found the boots, I still recommend ordering upclips which can replace the bungee and prevent a similar occurrence in the future.

My boy ripped many a gaiter and pulled boots before I figured out how to modify it. I was lucky that the boot banging around didn't spook him.

I finally got to examine a pair of Cavallos yesterday. The tread looks good without encouraging a build up of mud. They look very easy to apply and should stay on nicely. There is nothing in the back for a hind hoof to grap and pull the boot off. At $120 a pair, they are an affordable option. When I need to replace my OM's, I might try the cavallos instead. I've got to see how long they are compared to width. My horse needs boots that are as wide as the are long, which is why OM's are such a good choice for him.

Bogie
May. 14, 2008, 09:42 PM
I have been using Easyboot bares for about 8 months on my horse's hind hooves. I hunt in them and they've worked great. I had a lot of trouble keeping the epics on my horse. So I guess you have to try different boots until you find the one that works best for your horse.

rideapaso
May. 14, 2008, 10:51 PM
For about 5 cents each, you can put cotter pins in the Epics clips and they won't come loose or click. :) You can order them in packs of 10 from Easycare, or you can just buy them at a hardware or farm supply store.

Believe me ... I tried the cotter pins. They just bend. I've even ripped a few of the clips completely off of the Epics. Those Old Dominion rocks can be very tough on clips and pins, but I've had no problems with the Bares. I also had problems with the cables breaking. No more Epics for me! The Bares are a very good fit on my Paso.

JHUshoer20
May. 15, 2008, 12:49 AM
JHshoer, your comments about boots will have more credibilty if you actually have experience with them. If you think they are a trash product, then please list why from your own experience in riding with them. I haven't ridden a horse since sometime in the '90s if I recall correctly. The 2 things have nothing to do with each other any more than driving an automobile makes one a qualified mechanic.
I have heard of a shoer getting sued when a shod horse slipped on pavement resulting in injuries to the rider. It was six years in court before it was determined not to be the shoer's fault since the client didn't ask for borium. His lawyer was the only one who benefitted in that case. If I were you I wouldn't advocate somebody initiating a law suit due to and accident that could have happend shod, booted, or barefoot. Thrown out of court it should have been. No product liability there as there could be here. I got a better one for you. I remember a woman trying to sue a horseshoer once. Funny thing happened, she couldn't get her horses shod. Not by ANYBODY! Lawsuit was dropped. Cool huh?


There are many of us who do a lot of miles in boots, and while finding the right boot for our horses can be aggravating, they are not trash products. My boy goes great in OM's. They look awful, but I really don't care since he puts a lot of miles on them and they are holding up great so far. We use Epics on the hinds, but I don't like the tread: it is slippery on wet grass. Slippery on wet grass. Dangerous. Just like Slypner horseshoes which were another trash product that is thankfully gone. Thanks for making that point for me as well.



My boy ripped many a gaiter and pulled boots before I figured out how to modify it. I was lucky that the boot banging around didn't spook him.
More equipment failures. Yeah lucky you were.


I've got to see how long they are compared to width. My horse needs boots that are as wide as the are long, which is why OM's are such a good choice for him. If you'd get your horse shod the fit would be perfect. On those boots they never will be no matter what.

Check this out http://www.horseshoeingmuseum.com/article2.htm

Every single shoe you see there served some kind of purpose. They were made individually to serve horses needs. Any type of one size fits all thing is unnacceptable. It fails to adequately suit the animal's needs. Hoofboots with their inability to be custom fit is their biggest drawback.

Now, being as that you think I'm a dinosaur stuck in the stone age for sticking to a tried and proven by over 2000 years of history method of hoofcare, I'll enlighten you to this. The Egyptians used animal skins on their horses feet not unlike moccasins. In the 12th century the Mongols refined the concept and developed a rawhide cup. Hmmmmmm sound familiar? Later the early Greeks and Romans used various boots and sandals and such as well. (obviously barefoot didn't work out for them either) Point being that the use of boots is not a new development by any stretch of the imagination. They've been around much longer than shoes. As technology progressed they were replaced by better things. In this case iron horseshoes.

Is nothing new in the equine world;)
George

Daydream Believer
May. 15, 2008, 09:04 AM
Now, being as that you think I'm a dinosaur stuck in the stone age for sticking to a tried and proven by over 2000 years of history method of hoofcare, I'll enlighten you to this. The Egyptians used animal skins on their horses feet not unlike moccasins. In the 12th century the Mongols refined the concept and developed a rawhide cup. Hmmmmmm sound familiar? Later the early Greeks and Romans used various boots and sandals and such as well. (obviously barefoot didn't work out for them either) Point being that the use of boots is not a new development by any stretch of the imagination. They've been around much longer than shoes. As technology progressed they were replaced by better things. In this case iron horseshoes.

Is nothing new in the equine world;)
George

I knew boots were not a new concept but thanks for pointing out the history as you did. However, I'd dare say that we are working with much improved technology and materials now than leather skins wouldn't you? ;) However, if 2000 years ago, they started to nail metal to the horses feet and you are still doing so two millennium later, that doesn't say much for progress does it? Why damage the hoof wall with nails if you don't have to? At least if a boot comes off you are not missing a huge chunk of wall as you risk with a shoe.

As for slippery on wet grass.... I nearly got killed in plain steel shoes on wet grass some years ago eventing. Without traction devices like studs and borium, steel shoes can be wicked slippery also. I remember what a PITA putting studs in my shoes was...UGH...cleaning out the threads, fixing screwed up taps, etc.... Nothing comes without some shortcomings...nothing. :)

Truth is when we ask horses to perform unnatural acts carrying us on their backs, we have to consider that there can be unintended consequences and do our best to protect the horse and be safe. If that is a nailed on shoe that works best for you, than more power to you but it is not right to criticize those folks who are happy with boots. Technology is giving us more choices than we ever had before and empowering horse owners with more control than ever before in their horse's hoof care. :cool:

Auventera Two
May. 15, 2008, 09:10 AM
Believe me ... I tried the cotter pins. They just bend. I've even ripped a few of the clips completely off of the Epics. Those Old Dominion rocks can be very tough on clips and pins, but I've had no problems with the Bares. I also had problems with the cables breaking. No more Epics for me! The Bares are a very good fit on my Paso.

That's great you could find boots that work! I've never had problems with cotter pins but then I have never ridden the OD trail either. :winkgrin:

Auventera Two
May. 15, 2008, 09:20 AM
If you'd get your horse shod the fit would be perfect. On those boots they never will be no matter what.

So that is assuming that the horseshoer is capable of PERFECTLY fitting the shoes, and that he does so, correct? And that is also assuming that the horse's hoof doesn't grow at all during the cycle because we all know that after the first few days or so, the fit is no longer perfect. ;)

If horseshoers did it perfect 100% of the time, why would we need these forums? They are littered with photos and stories of lame horses, short shod, hot nails, wrong package alltogether, incorrect trims, inbalance, infection....blah blah blah.

You make the assumption that every horseshoer in the world can PERFECTLY fit the perfect set of shoes and everything will be peaches and roses. Well let me tell you what - on our farm we have had FAR more drama and trouble out of horseshoes than when horses were left barefoot or were booted. Why do you think I made the switch?! It certainly wasn't because the farriers were gods gift to humanity and made all the horses to soar on angel wings. It was because I got sick of all the infection, imbalance, lameness, abcesses, white line disease, and NO RESOLUTION of above said. Hoof boots have given me an excellent protection alternative. Why does that bother you so much? If you want to shoe horses, and you are happy in shoes, then stick with it! Everyone makes their own choice.

Farriers seem threatened by hoof boots and "barefoot" because it infringes upon their bottom dollar, or they view it as a threat. I read a quote in an American FArrier's Journal one time that said something like - The best kind of client is one who never shows up at the barn. Now why would somebody say that? Also I just "loved" the article outlining how many horses need to be shod every year to turn a good profit. You can only aford to keep a certain percentage of your clients barefoot until you start losing money. Those magazines are a real eye opener.

So I get the feeling that the hoof boot war goes a lot deeper than "farriers just don't like it." There should be no reason to go on a personal vandetta against people and products that don't even concern you unless you have an underlying cause. I don't run around the shoeing boards starting fights over how horrible shoes are. I don't really care. If somebody asks about barefoot, or boots, I'll give my opinions and viewpoints. And then sit back and get attacked by the farriers for being so stupid and foolish. Oh well - it is what it is.

Sat I got a call from a lady wanting me to take on her 6 horses. Problem is they are all gaited trail horses and they keep all 6 shod all the way around. I told her I was a trimmer and I don't do shoes. She said "Ohhhh no!!" But I said, I can give you the name of the only farrier in this area that I would recommend. Don't know if he has room in his book for you, but you can try. I gave her the name and number, we chatted about trail riding for 15 minutes, then hung up. I never mentioned a word about barefoot or hoof boots. It's not my job to convince people of anything. People are gonna do what they're gonna do. She had my website and she could have read all day if she wanted to. I only trim part time so I have no personal mission to steal as many shod clients as I can. In fact, I'm pretty happy with the number I have right now.

rmh
May. 15, 2008, 09:25 AM
Well said A2. I wish we could discuss facts or techniques and leave the personalities and petty bickering out of it. How ever if we did that many wouldn't have anything to say. Which might not be a bad thing.

Shadow14
May. 15, 2008, 09:30 AM
Hoof boots have given me an excellent protection alternative. I see no reason why that should bother you so much?? If you want to shoe horses, and you are happy in shoes, then stick with it! Everyone makes their own choice and I really cannot understand why the drama.

What bothers me is this crap is pushed onto new people who listens to whoever hells the loudest. People come here for advice and boots and treeless saddles are pushed down their throat.
Next we will be backing a horse through the entire ride. Anything it make it more difficult.

All these infections, hoofs half ripped off I have never experience in 50 years of riding and keeping horses shod. You make it sound like cruelty just nialing a shoe on a foot???
If a horse can live for 35 years wearing shoes and still have nice feet what is wrong with that??
For every case you find that shoing has hurt a horse I can find one that going barefoot caused a problem.

Auventera Two
May. 15, 2008, 09:47 AM
Norval - you have to understand that farrier care varies by demographics. The farrier you have there to shoe your horses is not the same I have here. They all go to different schools, and they have different thoughts and methods. It is not regulated.

So if something is working for YOU, then keep doing it. What works for me is what I'll keep doing. If somebody asks a question about shoeless horses or boots, those of us who have experience with that will share it if people ask. You're free to share what works for you too. But there's no need to attack other people about it.

Shadow14
May. 15, 2008, 10:01 AM
.

So if something is working for YOU, then keep doing it. .

Yes it works for me and everyone else I know around me. So why can't it work for you too or anyone else seeking advice from this forum??
I am sure I could put a set of shoes on your mare and she would be quite happy and run sound and no more fiddling with boots and all that entails.
For about 1 1/2 hours every 8 week yes you have to put up with the farrier making a visit but then you can forget about it.
I offer people a very good guarantee with every shoing because very few ever get to collect.
A properly installed shoe is maintenace free, offers great traction devices depending on conditions and resists wear of the foot.
Plus the farrier can point out or correct any problems the horse is having with each visit.
Boots add bulk to the foot, add more places for mud to get a hold. All those fasteners and wire offer more places to hang up a foot it debree and wire.

marta
May. 15, 2008, 10:09 AM
What bothers me is this crap is pushed onto new people who listens to whoever hells the loudest. People come here for advice and boots and treeless saddles are pushed down their throat.
Next we will be backing a horse through the entire ride. Anything it make it more difficult.



your posts do nothing for the horseshoeing camp. perhaps you should work on your delivery;)

rmh
May. 15, 2008, 10:16 AM
The world is flat, the world is flat!!! Those people finally died off like some others we know will.

Auventera Two
May. 15, 2008, 10:30 AM
Yes it works for me and everyone else I know around me. So why can't it work for you too or anyone else seeking advice from this forum??
I am sure I could put a set of shoes on your mare and she would be quite happy and run sound and no more fiddling with boots and all that entails.
For about 1 1/2 hours every 8 week yes you have to put up with the farrier making a visit but then you can forget about it.
I offer people a very good guarantee with every shoing because very few ever get to collect.
A properly installed shoe is maintenace free, offers great traction devices depending on conditions and resists wear of the foot.
Plus the farrier can point out or correct any problems the horse is having with each visit.
Boots add bulk to the foot, add more places for mud to get a hold. All those fasteners and wire offer more places to hang up a foot it debree and wire.

People do things differently Norval. Deal with it. ;) :D :cool:

JHUshoer20
May. 15, 2008, 11:18 AM
So that is assuming that the horseshoer is capable of PERFECTLY fitting the shoes, and that he does so, correct? As any qualified, competent horseshoer can easily do.


If horseshoers did it perfect 100% of the time, why would we need these forums? We DONT need these forums. Most of us got through our entire lives just fine without them. They do however serve as a good source of self amusement.
They are littered with photos and stories of lame horses, short shod, hot nails, wrong package alltogether, incorrect trims, inbalance, infection....blah blah blah. Again the silence from our British friends is deafening.


You make the assumption that every horseshoer in the world can PERFECTLY fit the perfect set of shoes and everything will be peaches and roses. Well let me tell you what - on our farm we have had FAR more drama and trouble out of horseshoes than when horses were left barefoot or were booted. Why do you think I made the switch?! Perhaps you were a PITA client that nobody wanted to work for? Oh never mind carry on:lol:
It certainly wasn't because the farriers were gods gift to humanity and made all the horses to soar on angel wings. Well what can I say? The impossible we can do but miracles take some time;)
It was because I got sick of all the infection, imbalance, lameness, abcesses, white line disease, and NO RESOLUTION of above said. Sounds like poor animal husbandry could have been a factor as well.
Hoof boots have given me an excellent protection alternative. Why does that bother you so much? Because it's not in the best interests of the horse
[edit]


Farriers seem threatened by hoof boots and "barefoot" because it infringes upon their bottom dollar, or they view it as a threat. Coming at me with a weapon I'd take as a threat. [edit]
I read a quote in an American FArrier's Journal one time that said something like - The best kind of client is one who never shows up at the barn. Now why would somebody say that? Obviously your taking it out of context but from my own personal antisocial point of view I can say that oftentimes I can relate to that statement.
Also I just "loved" the article outlining how many horses need to be shod every year to turn a good profit. You can only aford to keep a certain percentage of your clients barefoot until you start losing money. Those magazines are a real eye opener. Can you cite the month and year youre referring to? If that in fact was said it's wrong. Me and most of the guys I know trim about 80% of our horses. I've found it much more profitable than shoeing. Nothing new there. Always was that way.


So I get the feeling that the hoof boot war goes a lot deeper than "farriers just don't like it." Not at all. In fact I've recommended trail riders carry one in their saddle bags as they make a great spare tire in an emergency.
There should be no reason to go on a personal vandetta against people and products that don't even concern you unless you have an underlying cause. Underlying cause is the health, safety, and well being of horses. For those who see everything as financial I'll say that this is more of a lifestyle than a business. If I cared that much about money I'd be peddling junk bonds down on Wall St.
I don't run around the shoeing boards starting fights over how horrible shoes are. You really don't want to have me go find some stuff said by you now do you?:cool:

George

sublimequine
May. 15, 2008, 11:26 AM
Ugh. Don't you guys EVER get tired of hollering and throwing things at each other? Seriously now. And A2, you're contributing to this right now too. Shame on you all. I DON'T want all this crap boiling over into the Trail/Endurance subforum! :no:

As for OP, TBH I haven't heard very many good things about the bares. I have a pair of Easyboots myself, the standard ones without a gaiter. BUT, I only use them on a gravel driveway (which is why I bought them in the first place), so really I haven't tested them much on 'stickability'. But in the very least, the ones without gaiters wont get caught up and spook a horse I suppose. Aren't the Grips supposed to be better for mud too? I'm not sure.. :confused:

Moderator 1
May. 15, 2008, 11:46 AM
Both "sides" have presented their views about the utility of boots in general and defended their views. Now return to the specific topic addressed by the OP and don't turn the thread into a general discussion of different hoof care philosophies.

Thanks,
Mod 1

pandorasboxx
May. 15, 2008, 11:51 AM
I like the Epics and have used them on short rides with some success but generally go to shoes and pads for the majority of my riding. My bad back precludes too much bending over and tweaking etc. One resource that the OP may want to look at is the barefoot endurance group on yahoo. LOTS of booting information and experimentation.

Regarding the unpleasant posting:

I have yet to see anyone shoving treeless or barefoot down anyone's throat here. What I do see is fanatics chiming in to say why their way is the ONLY way and that everyone else is crazee and deeeluded.

I ride treeless because it works for me and my horse. I'm happy to give my opinion, and do so without bashing treed saddles. I like treed saddles and have owned many of them. As a matter of fact, I haven't seen anyone bash treed saddles but plenty of people bashing treeless especially those who don't any or much personal experience with them. :lol:

Boots work for many, many people. For me, they were a pain that I didn't feel like tweaking. BUT, I plan to explore it again in the near future. I hate being at the mercy of a thrown or loose shoe to stop my limited ride time. My farrier, great guy that he is, cannot drop everything and get out fast enough to accommodate my ride for that day. I UNDERSTAND why folks would rather have booting at their disposal.

It appears that certain posters enjoy engaging in endless fighting, bashing etc. as if beating the forum over the head ad nauseum will bring everyone to their "correct" way of thinking. I'd suggest we exercise our ignore buttons and maybe they will slink away.;)

sublimequine
May. 15, 2008, 04:12 PM
pandoras; I used to be the same way about the boots. I actually worked with the original Old Macs for awhile on the old guy I care for, who was abscessing and needed additional support and something to help keep the hoof clean and medicated. I'm glad for the boots, but I HATE the original Old Mac design! It's big and clunky, doesn't wanna stay on, and is really just ugly. :lol:

I'm only now getting into boots because I think they're finally getting to be tolerable quality for my personal tastes. But there's STILL a lot of bugs to be worked out, as the OP has expressed. I for one think these Renegades are the next step in the evolution of hoof boots. Only time will tell, though!

sublimequine
May. 17, 2008, 01:58 PM
:hits the report button a few more times: Folks just don't know when to quit, do they?:rolleyes:

OP; also you might want to look at Old Macs or Cavallos if you're still interested in boots, but might not want to stick with the Easycare line (which is understandable). :yes:

Moderator 1
May. 17, 2008, 08:29 PM
We moved the recent general boot, etc. debate questions to this thread, where you are welcome to continue that discussion:

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3219528#post3219528

Please keep the post on this thread more closely related to the original post and the OP's situation.

Thanks,
Mod 1

matryoshka
May. 17, 2008, 09:21 PM
Sorry to have created more work for the mods! There was some information in my posts directed to the OP, but I can understand that she may well have given up on this thread and not have wanted to wade through the long posts.

winona
May. 20, 2008, 12:53 PM
i am back!!! i felt out of it for several days and didn't go near the computer. wow! i generated 4 pages of discussion?

my face, which was left in the road is healing nicely except a nice shade of purple under the eye. left arm broke but luckily i won't need surgery which was a strong possibility. luckily i am right handed.

i'm convinced she pulled off the boots with her other feet because she was dancing and her bootprints didn't seem deep enough to yank 2 off...maybe one. i now am going to be a proponent of desensitizing horses to a boot dangling off their leg, this horse has been hobbled, tied, ropes swung to be desensitized and is usually very good, but not this time :(

definately will need to shoe for awhile, but i liked the way her feet looked with boots. when i bought her she was in shoes and pads, flare, whiteline disease and miserable w/ the shoes off (like when pulled for the winter). but... i do have a great farrier who will shoe or natural trim....whatever. i am lucky as long as he sticks around.

i may try a different type of boot down the road, esp. for the off season. however, not sure i'll trust anything that wraps around like the gaiter :no:
thanks for the good wishes and info.

saratoga
May. 20, 2008, 01:26 PM
I had a Renegade boot come off the hoof this weekend when I was galloping in sand but the top strap stayed on so it was hanging on my horse's leg. He got a little upset but nothing too major- I figured out pretty quick what happened and was able to stop him without too much drama.
I've never purposely desensitized a horse to that, but it would definitely be a good idea before wearing boots! Unfortunately, I think any boot is bound to come off at some time, hopefully just not too often.

katarine
May. 20, 2008, 02:26 PM
I was disappointed in the performance of the original OMs. My crooked legged QH needed less traction than they provided. His foot hits, then twists slightly midway through the weight bearing phase. Not good when the boot doesn't want to let him twist--- I guess his foot would get warmed to the inside of the boot, and couldn't twist. All that torque went up his legs. Barefoot, or shod on plain flat shoes..it can twist. Word of caution for anyone keen to try boots on a horse like that.

I don't care for the Cavallos. Cheaply made and a PITA to keep putting back on....horse has nice round, good feet- boots wouldn't stay on.

For my life and my horses shoes are what works for us. I rode with some BF horses, and they do great it seems...but there's no One Single Solution that will satisfy every horse. Can't we just let it lie and not bother multi quoting anyone that doesn't agree? Just let it go!

Kyzteke
May. 20, 2008, 02:26 PM
How is wondering how muck sucks a shoe off getting personal?? Do you own the muck that is causing the problem???

I think we need to begin with a reading lesson.

Generally when a writer starts a new paragraph, it means a new subject, or at least a new angle on the subject being discussed.

The first part of my post (read slowly), has to do with the actual dynamics of the metal horseshoe being sucked off it the muck -- how it happens, what the results can be, etc.

The NEXT paragraph (note how I'm doing this now), pertains to ANOTHER aspect of this discussion -- the rather personal tone the "shoe vs boot" component this thread is exploring.

Writing (and reading) per the basic rules of grammar helps on a BB, since we can't hear each other. It's an English composition kind of thing that helps in communication -- rather 9th grade, but one of those skills that can come in handy even in our adult years.

Got ya back on track now, Shadow?

Shadow14
May. 20, 2008, 04:53 PM
Got ya back on track now, Shadow?

Not at all. I think you are just looking for arguements. The subject was dropped one week ago and you have to renew it.
Why???
As for the muck I have been shoing for 22 years, fully guarantee against lost shoes and very seldom have to make good.

Again why are you trying to argue something from a week ago.?????

Kyzteke
May. 20, 2008, 11:03 PM
Not at all. I think you are just looking for arguements. The subject was dropped one week ago and you have to renew it.
Why???
As for the muck I have been shoing for 22 years, fully guarantee against lost shoes and very seldom have to make good.

Again why are you trying to argue something from a week ago.?????

Well, not all of us have endless hours to spend in front of the computer. Hard as it might be to understand, this thread is not the focalpoint of my life...not even in the Top 10. This is when I got back to the computer. Pretty simple.

Also, if you will read my FIRST comment on this thread I said that I looking at boots, and currently using shoes. In fact, several threads have me making comments that question the efficency of boots. So I don't really have a dog in this fight.

Someone just commented that they never heard of shoes being pulled off and I commented that, in my experience, shoes DO pulled off. Why do you think they invented Easy Boots in the first place?

There isn't any guy on the grassy knoll here.

matryoshka
May. 21, 2008, 09:32 AM
Kyzteke,

There are a number of boot threads in the endurance forum where the highs and lows of each type are discussed. I don't know if you've seen them or searched for them. Most of us who use boots are willing to discuss the problems we've had with each type and are open and honest about our experiences. There is no fight on these threads. I didn't even realize there was much of an argument on this one until people pressed the alert button. I thought it was a discussion.

When you've narrowed your selection, you could ask about that specific product and get feedback. New feedback never hurts, since more people are joining COTH every day. I haven't tried the Renegades yet and am not sure I'll need to. I've decided that my OTTB is not suited to the sport, and the little Arab mare may not need boots at all. It's too early to tell yet since her feet are still reshaping after having seriously long toes that affected her hoof capsule.

Mud is simply an issue for horses--there is always the possibility of injury, IMO, whether barefoot, shod, or booted. The only time I've had a boot "sucked" off in mud (where it was stuck in there and I had to search for it) was when the boot was too large. I've had the Easyboots without gaiters fly off plenty of times--again, the boot was either too large or got yanked off with a hind foot. But that's another story...