Changes to the racing industry...please post suggestions

[baythoroughbred]

These last few weeks have really been tough for me. I was at the Rolex and saw what happened to those two horses, I have watched the races from this past weekend in which two horses were injured, one fatally. I also own an OTTB who was injured while racing, I got him, took him for surgery and now he is fine. I love these animals and want to see some changes as to how they are treated.

I am also an attorney and am willing to donate some of my time and energy into lobbying for these animals. I understand politics and I know changes have to occur slowly. Radical positions usually are overlooked, so a ban on racing is not going to happen. People make too much money from this industry. However, with enough people concerned, the industry must take notice if it hits them financially. I believe that is where we all come in.

I know there has been a lot of discussion in the other threads on Eight Belles, but please, post your changes and suggestions that you would want to be implemented by the racing industry and why. I know a lot of people argue about the age of the horses, the track surface, etc. Let me know what suggestions everyone has to make racing safer for these animals.

I also think there needs to be legislation about the breeding of animals. Too many horses are bred every year and too many eventually wind up without homes or in the kill pens. I think the horse breeders need to be responsible for this - but not sure how to suggest this. If anyone has any ideas on this, please let me know.

To me, hearing people from the industry say "horses break down, that's part of our business" is just not good enough. I want to find ways to really make this sport safer for the horses. 2 horses dying every day from racing is too many. Slaughtering horses who can't race any longer is appalling. There has to be something we, as horse lovers can do to give them a voice. I look forward to hearing from all of you.

[Ellsworth]

No horse should be allowed to run until it is 4 years old. It doesn't cost that much to pasture a horse for an additional 18 months.

I think horse racing will be gone soon enough. Gamblers support it and there are so many other options available to them now.

[DickHertz]

1.) Ban toe grabs - XLT's is the most you could use - on the fronts
2.) Use Australian type jockey whip
3.) Minimum of 9 days between races
4.) A test for EPO which includes random testing
5.) $10 per start fee paid by owner for each horse so there could be one retirement foundation that could handle all ex-racehorses. The retirement foundation's vet would decide whether to humanely destroy the horses or adopt them out.
6.) Ban synthetic racetracks
7.) Drug uniformity from all racetracks - or at least have all the mid-atlantic states be on the same page, the SE, the SW, California, etc.

[DickHertz]

I think horse racing will be gone soon enough. Gamblers support it and there are so many other options available to them now.

And those other options will keep racing afloat for at least 20-30 years.

[animaldoc]

More money and funding towards research of equine lameness, development and prevention and treatment of injuries. There are people trying to work on these issues that can't get grants because the "sexy" projects right now involve stem cells. We need large bench-top and clinical studies to evaluate all these issues (are they being run too young or not? does the surface matter? synthetic vs. dirt vs. turf? does breeding matter? does what we feed them matter? does weight matter?). We may have small scratches into the surface of the data we need, but we don't have enough information to conclusively say one way or another.

[bobbybobby]

things in the horse industry have changed with the times,not all for the better...true horsemen are almost all gone...the problem is there are not any requirements to be a trainer ,other than have a little money and a horse to get started... a very level playing field...the industry is not centered around the horse it is about gambling...the cheaper horses are the backbone of the industry...they are the ones that do all the work...

[SleepyFox]

It is very easy to make blanket statements like: stop racing babies, install safer surfaces, etc. But, there is no conclusive evidence on any of this. Knee jerk reactions to satisfy the outcry of the uneducated public is not solving anything. Before lobbying, I urge you to take the time needed to really understand racing and our issues. And, I mean really understand. I do not mean this to be offensive, but from reading the OP and subsequent comments, many of you do not really understand the issues. Taking suggestions from people online is a good start, but please - take what is said with a grain of salt and consider its source.

Heck, I don't really understand. I don't know why Eight Belles broke down. I know it shouldn't have happened and it's not okay. But, I don't know why it did. I'm not saying we should ignore this high profile accident, but we also don't need to be running around putting out fires in an attempt for good (better?) PR. I'm all about truly finding some solutions, but let's do it in a constructive way with the facts to back it up.

That said, I'll throw out a couple of ideas...

Incentivize running older, durable horses through added purse money and recognition for 4/up races (or even 5/up races!).

I'd be okay with no 2yo racing or even only starting races 2yo races in the fall.

And, this isn't something to lobby, but it would help - stop letting the vets train, get back to real horsemanship.

And, if buyers would stop supporting sources of unsoundness at the sales, it would help, I think.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I also own an OTTB. I love all horses, but TBs have my heart.

I don't know enough about the ins and outs of racing to know specifics. I worry that they train them and work them too much too young. I worry about the breeding - limited gene pool, selection for traits that may be associated with other, negative traits (think HYPP). I worry about track conditions and training, especially at the smaller, much less prominent tracks. And I worry about the horses that don't have homes to funnel to after they're taken off the track.
I hope some good does come out of this tragedy.

[brightskyfarm]

Might I request you also donate your time to all the unwanted cats and dogs in this country too....oh, yes, how about the orphans and kids in foster homes...the list is endless I think...

[DLee]

I think the "Two Year Olds in Training" sales are a bad idea. So, so early in their lives to be running that hard.

[cloudyandcallie]

Don't worry about the snarky comments, those folks have nothing better to do than criticize.
hmmmmmmmmmmm.
hard to convince people to breed for bone.....must just want speed
limit the number of juvenile races for horses...............2 yr olds are too young to be doing all that running.
bigger incentives, that means money to the racing industry, to have horses race at 4 and 5---like a triple crown for 5 yr olds with purses of 10M or so.
it requires a totally renovation of the racing industry.
grass/turf costs more and is harder to maintain............but if purses were higher for turf races, that would help.
it's a money driven industry, like all industries, but instead of people dying in unsafe cars or using unsafe appliances, it results in dead horses.
so anything to promote more time for horses to grow up, have their legs get stronger, and live longer is great.
don't hold your breath though! My mare was lucky that she was bred and raised by Mrs. Frank Gallagher and not run till she was 3 yrs old since she was a May foal. Note that Barbaro was an April foal--how many times did he run before he was in the Derby and Preakness?
and tell the snakry ones that there are people doing dog and cat rescues and trying to prevent overbreeding of dogs and cats. You can't save them all, just save as many as you can.

[cloudyandcallie]

Sleepy Fox has some good ideas.
Oh and like on this forum, post the names of the good ones, like Nick Zito, and of the bad ones, so the word will at least get out to the horse people here, and maybe they will spread the word to the general public.
thanks

[Freebird!]

Actually there are requirements to being a trainer. Unlike the H/J etc. worlds, you cannot train without a license - and to get that you have to pass a written and oral test - at most tracks. However, I do think they should make both more in dept.

My biggest gripe about racing is watching the 2 year olds being pushed at the 2 year Old In Training Sales. Everyone wants to see one get that elusive "10 and 2" Which to me is ridiculous. No 2 year old should EVER be pushed to work that fast, even if it is just down the stretch. I also don't like seeing 2 year olds race, but of course with the Triple Crown races being for 3 year olds only, there will always be races for 2 year olds.

[InWhyCee Redux]

No horse should be allowed to run until it is 4 years old. It doesn't cost that much to pasture a horse for an additional 18 months.
______________

Good idea, but consider that Citation raced NINE times as a 2-year-old; Omaha NINE times; Whirlaway SIXTEEN times. Seabiscuit ran THIRTY-FIVE times as a three-year-old — basically, every 10 days. :eek:

So, have the horses themselves changed that dramatically? Maybe — consider also that in the 1940s the Jockey Club registered between 5,600 and 8,700 foals a year, many owned by established breeders (think Calumet et al) who could afford to breed, own, and race their own. Breeders like this probably didn't care if their two-year-old could run a furlong in 10 seconds or not because that colt wasn't leaving the farm — didn't have to! Since 2000, there have been 32,900 to 34,800 foals registered annually. Go figure....

[InWhyCee Redux]

In response to my own prior post: I guess I'm trying to say that today's TBs are bred to sell, not necessarily to enjoy long careers at the track. (As for speed: Buckpasser, arguably the fastest horse of the '60s, did 11 races as a 2-year-old and 14 at 3. Also a homebred, as was the fastest horse of the '70s, Secretariat.)

[Pronzini]

______________

Good idea, but consider that Citation raced NINE times as a 2-year-old; Omaha NINE times; Whirlaway SIXTEEN times. Seabiscuit ran THIRTY-FIVE times as a three-year-old — basically, every 10 days. :eek:



Don't even have to go back that far....Serena's Song ran 10 times as a 2 year old in 1994 and had a lifetime career of 38 starts and Xtra Heat started 9 times as a 2 year old in 2000 on her way to 35 starts.

Skip Away (38 starts); Black Tie Affair (45 starts); Best Pal (47 starts) Pleasant Tap (32 starts) and Fly So Free (33 starts) are all champions from the 90s who started at 2.

[DickHertz]

I think the "Two Year Olds in Training" sales are a bad idea. So, so early in their lives to be running that hard.

Our owner bought five from Ocala last year and four of them came back DEAD LAME off the trailer !!!! I agree with your post.

[DickHertz]

Sleepy Fox has some good ideas.
Oh and like on this forum, post the names of the good ones, like Nick Zito, and of the bad ones, so the word will at least get out to the horse people here, and maybe they will spread the word to the general public.
thanks

Bad Trainer

Harry F. T__________

Trains at Penn National

[solargal]

Don't worry about the snarky comments, those folks have nothing better to do than criticize.
hmmmmmmmmmmm.
hard to convince people to breed for bone.....must just want speed
limit the number of juvenile races for horses...............2 yr olds are too young to be doing all that running.
bigger incentives, that means money to the racing industry, to have horses race at 4 and 5---like a triple crown for 5 yr olds with purses of 10M or so.
it requires a totally renovation of the racing industry.
grass/turf costs more and is harder to maintain............but if purses were higher for turf races, that would help.
it's a money driven industry, like all industries, but instead of people dying in unsafe cars or using unsafe appliances, it results in dead horses.
so anything to promote more time for horses to grow up, have their legs get stronger, and live longer is great.
don't hold your breath though! My mare was lucky that she was bred and raised by Mrs. Frank Gallagher and not run till she was 3 yrs old since she was a May foal. Note that Barbaro was an April foal--how many times did he run before he was in the Derby and Preakness?
and tell the snakry ones that there are people doing dog and cat rescues and trying to prevent overbreeding of dogs and cats. You can't save them all, just save as many as you can.

I hope/wish the industry would do that. I also wish they wouldn't allow horses to be bred till later(5) or not allowed to breed horses that never started. Maybe one day.

[Neferteria]

I also think there needs to be legislation about the breeding of animals. Too many horses are bred every year and too many eventually wind up without homes or in the kill pens. I think the horse breeders need to be responsible for this - but not sure how to suggest this. If anyone has any ideas on this, please let me know.


There would undoubedly be a howl about this, but how about inspecting TB racing breeding stock to ensure that they are suitable for breeding? Most of the warmblood breeds do this and there are "approved" brood mares and stallions. Couldn't be registered with the Jockey Club unless the get is the offspring of an approved mare and stallion.

So many of the great horses of yore were big boned fellows who didnt have the conformation faults to have the propensity to break down.

[gholem]

Make it just "horse racing" instead of "thoroughbred horse racing". Obviously, at first this would make little difference, because no other breeds can compete with tbs over most of the distances they run - 6 furlongs and up. I'll give quarter horses a chance for distances shorter than that.

But it would at least give breeders the option of taking a longer term view and the ability to perhaps breed some "soundness" back into the mix. Who knows maybe they could make them both sounder AND faster.

In any case, it would seem to make more sense to make it an all-comers type of event anyway. If someone can breed a horse that could beat secretariat and he doesn't happen to be a thoroughbred, who cares? He's faster than secretariat...

[On the Farm]

Wow, I'm a horseman thinking of joining in a group to demand reform of the corrupt and shameful legal industry in this country. Who could have imagined?

Yes, there are things racing needs to do better, however I think that solutions to these issues need to be rooted in real scientific study and not emotion-borne mandates, particularly in the area of what age to begin training/racing. Mind boggling is just one (but probably the only "G" rated) term I can use to describe the complete ignoring or flat out denying of research that has been performed that contradicts the notion that "if we just wait until they're four or five, then the problem will be solved."

All that being said, I would like to see several issues be addressed:

1. The effect of bute at various stages of a horse's develop, say from weanling to yearling, yearling to 2yo, etc.

2. The effect of year round racing circuits, particularly in regions where inclement weather is a continuous factor.

3. State bred incentive programs which promote quantity bred at the expense of quality (can we say New York, where the motto of many breeders could very well be, "breed the worst to the worst and pray for something better.")

That's all for this go-round, I'm sure I'll think of something else later on.

[Pronzini]

I hope/wish the industry would do that. I also wish they wouldn't allow horses to be bred till later(5) or not allowed to breed horses that never started. Maybe one day.

But then you are doing away with some pretty nice mares like the dams of Citation, Damascus, Seabiscuit, Key to the Mint, Slew O' Gold etc etc.

[gholem]

Just a followup relating the world of long distance dog racing (ie Iditarod style)

Used to be that siberian huskies were the best sled dog, however a new breed of dog has developed that technically isn't a breed at all. There is no registry, no official record of genealogy, the main requirement - the dogs have to be fast and they have to sturdy. Originally developed by crossing mainly huskies with other breeds (usually fast hunting dogs) they breed dogs that were both faster than huskies and sturdier since they were no longer inbreeding and could cross with breeds known for sturdiness. The new "breed" is known as Alaskan husky, but again, it isn't a dog breed in the traditional sense. If a dog is fast enough, wants to pull a sled and sturdy enough to finish the races then it is an Alaskan husky.

This new "breed" is so much faster and sturdier they have almost completely displaced the purebreed siberian husky in dog sled racing.

It seems to me that something like this could only benefit horse racing.

[bobbybobby]

i agree two year old sales are for the fast dollar... they have nothing to do with a race horse...anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy...the talk of waiting until a horse is 4 or 5 is a waste of time,it will never happen!!!! and for the response of a trainer having to take a test ...any 5 year old moran can pass the test...some states do not even require one....maybe everyone should be retested every 2 years.....

[On the Farm]

I hope/wish the industry would do that. I also wish they wouldn't allow horses to be bred till later(5) or not allowed to breed horses that never started. Maybe one day.

I'm not sure that would always hold water. We have a mare who cracked a sesamoid as a yearling and never raced. She has five foals of racing age with four to race (the 2yo hasn't started.) Out of those four, she has two stakes winners and her offspring are tough and durable with only the eldest having been retired (she was still racing when sold privately for broodmare duty.) Her second stakes winner achieved that status as a 6 year old.

[boosma47]

The idea of TB breed inspections at 3 is appealing. Set them up as the warmblood inspections, judging conformation, breeding, movement, soundness. No TB to race unless it receives a certain score, no JC sanctioned breeding without an acceptable score.

Training up to that point limited to running on turf and hills beginning fall of the three yr old year, and including ample turn out.

As the gene pool is limited and seemingly weaker, what might an infusion of pure Arab/Barb/Turkoman/Akal-Teke blood do to improve the breed? These, after all, contributed to the original TB - why not now? The hybrid vigor might be just the answer to the continuation of this noble breed.

I look at the pics of BB's feet and shudder to think they will be passed on, along with all the other genetic unsoundnesses, just more generations of ever weaker, compromised animals who have hearts bigger than they can handle physically.

[solargal]

I'm not sure that would always hold water. We have a mare who cracked a sesamoid as a yearling and never raced. She has five foals of racing age with four to race (the 2yo hasn't started.) Out of those four, she has two stakes winners and her offspring are tough and durable with only the eldest having been retired (she was still racing when sold privately for broodmare duty.) Her second stakes winner achieved that status as a 6 year old.


I understand your point of unlucky circumstances, but if we did sacrifice that would the breed be better off? I don't know. Is there really as much of a problem with soundness or do the top level horses make it look that way.
I can go through the program here and there are tons of horses with over 50 lifetime starts. But they aren't really valuable so they get time off when they need it and continue to race. I am trying to by a mare that has had 70+ lifetime starts to breed her next year. She has a 1/2 brother that made over $350,000 and she was a solid $25K+ claimer in her day. She's a breed to race kind of mare, never once has she had so much as a blemish on her legs. I can't afford(don't want) to own horses that can only run 10x. lifetime.

[DickHertz]

I understand your point of unlucky circumstances, but if we did sacrifice that would the breed be better off? I don't know. Is there really as much of a problem with soundness or do the top level horses make it look that way.
I can go through the program here and there are tons of horses with over 50 lifetime starts. But they aren't really valuable so they get time off when they need it and continue to race. I am trying to by a mare that has had 70+ lifetime starts to breed her next year. She has a 1/2 brother that made over $350,000 and she was a solid $25K+ claimer in her day. She's a breed to race kind of mare, never once has she had so much as a blemish on her legs. I can't afford(don't want) to own horses that can only run 10x. lifetime.

A buddy of mine worked on a farm where a lady had a Storm Cat mare who never raced and was more crooked than Lombard Avenue. She was bred to sires like Grand Slam and Johannesburg - the foals sold for $80k-$100k and never did jack shit at the track. My point is there are some mares with great pedigrees who never race because their are not or would not be sound to race because of poor conformation. This will never stop because the business is all about looking at bloodlines on a piece of paper or computer.

Does anyone else think the rampant use of steroids in the 90's on sale yearlings might have something to do with breakdowns? I know this is "reaching" but studies have shown anabolic steroids do cause bones to become weaker. Anyone who has been to a Keeneland Yearling auction know many of those horses have to be given steroids to have those physiques.

[baythoroughbred]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses. I do tend to educate myself as much as possible about this issue. Getting responses on boards such as this, and doing Internet research is only a small part of me learning as much as I can on the industry and on racing. My husband grew up on a thoroughbred breeding farm in Lexington KY and just a two weeks ago I spent some time at a very wealthy thoroughbred farm in KY and was highly impressed and learned quite a few things about the business aspect of the farm.

I'm not trying to save or change the world, just trying to do what I can and I appreciate the responses. I've never been one to just sit back and complain without trying to be a part of the solution.

[DickHertz]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses. I do tend to educate myself as much as possible about this issue. Getting responses on boards such as this, and doing Internet research is only a small part of me learning as much as I can on the industry and on racing. My husband grew up on a thoroughbred breeding farm in Lexington KY and just a two weeks ago I spent some time at a very wealthy thoroughbred farm in KY and was highly impressed and learned quite a few things about the business aspect of the farm.

I'm not trying to save or change the world, just trying to do what I can and I appreciate the responses. I've never been one to just sit back and complain without trying to be a part of the solution.

To be honest, I'm not real thrilled with the number of responses in this thread. There are so many people who claim they know everything in the business, but very few have replied to your original question. Even the most diehard horseman should have a few suggestions they think would improve racing.

[Coral]

I don't know what thread it was in anymore, but I have to say the single best suggestion I have seen to date is to GET THEM OUTSIDE. Racing TBs get an hour of training/walking and otherwise sit in their stall all day. I understand the logic because they are high spirited and pumped up on a lot of high energy food but the confinement they are kept in isn't doing their bones growth any favors.

[DickHertz]

I don't know what thread it was in anymore, but I have to say the single best suggestion I have seen to date is to GET THEM OUTSIDE. Racing TBs get an hour of training/walking and otherwise sit in their stall all day. I understand the logic because they are high spirited and pumped up on a lot of high energy food but the confinement they are kept in isn't doing their bones growth any favors.

Owners always say "I think this horse needs to be on the racetrack." I wonder how many of the owners really know how harsh it is for a racehorse to be in his stall for 23 hours a day.

[Equilibrium]

I don't know what thread it was in anymore, but I have to say the single best suggestion I have seen to date is to GET THEM OUTSIDE. Racing TBs get an hour of training/walking and otherwise sit in their stall all day. I understand the logic because they are high spirited and pumped up on a lot of high energy food but the confinement they are kept in isn't doing their bones growth any favors.

I have been banging on about this for days now and it just doesn't seem to be picked up on. It's probably one of the reasons horses break down less frequently here than in America. My horses in training are out most days. As babies once old enough, they are out 24/7 all the time. Feeding, don't hinder nor speed up growth. Balance and balance, as few carbs as possible. We are banned from using everything as well.

And lets review bute for a moment because I'm inclined to believe people think it's all evil. If my horse has an abcess coming and I'm waiting for it to be cut out, I am not going to leave the horse in pain. They will get a bute. My 2yo showjumping filly decided it would be a good idea to jump out of her field the other day and come running back to the barn on the road. She didn't count on how slippy it was and when she turned, bam flat down in the road. Loads of road rash and a bit stiff and sore. I gave her a couple of bute for swelling and pain. I don't think I was doing anything evil in giving it to her. I think I'd be more evil to let her sit in pain. So all uses are not evil.

Dick, some good points and agree totally with the shoe thing. The racing before nine days though is a good idea, and in America you're probably right. But over here you will see many horses running 2 races in a week mostly to beat the handicapper. But the training inbetween is quite diffrent. The horses here would most likely enjoy days out in the paddock between races, not back to the track every day.

Callie, I think it's wonderful you think of Nick Zito as a wonderful guy who looks after his horses. I'm not going to bad mouth anyone, but as I worked for him, he's no better or worse than any other trainer. I will just leave it at that.

Drug policy's really need to change. Just as I highlighted no evil uses of bute, running on it is just not on. Steroids, well look no further than here to see where some unsoundness issues are started. Everywhere else bar America manages to have top notch horses without drugs so simply change it.

Terri

[Bluesy]

Ditto for the not racing until at least 3.5/4

Something else I'd like to add:

Proper conditioning - taking the time it takes to build up bone density, strengthen tendons and ligaments etc, properly and slowly.


I've posted this before, but I'll repost:

Table 1: Average time course for structural and physiological adaptations to exercise training in horses.

Adaptation........................................ ...Time Course

Increase in VO2 MAX.................................1 - 2 weeks
Increase in plasma volume..........................1 - 2 weeks
Improved sweating response.......................1 - 2 weeks
Increase in red blood cells & haemoglobin......2 - 4 months
Increase in muscle capillaries......................3 - 6 months
Increase in muscle mitochondria..................4 - 6 months
Increase in muscle aerobic enzymes.............4 - 6 months
Increase in bone density*..........................4 - 6 months
Strengthening of tendons and ligaments*......4 - 6 months

*Available research on training adaptations of supporting structures is limited.

[jolise]

Some excellent suggestions. DickHertz in particular has some solid ideas.
Definitely start with the easy (relatively) things to change.
1) Ban toe grabs----do it now, this needs no further debate.
2) I think we need medication policies similar to Dubai and Europe. NO race day meds PERIOD (although Lasix I might be able to be talked into) NO anabolic steroids of ANY kind. I do believe that this is one of the biggest causes of unsoundness in racehorses. I don't agree with giving the youngsters steroids to prep them for the sales. As a human physician, I know that there are deleterious effects to developing bones in humans and I would assume in horses as well. This really needs to be examined and I am suprised that it has not been researched in more detail. It should be an across the board ban on steroids in all TB's including sales yearlings, 2 year olds and older horses. This should be easy to implement. Quit the dickering and just get it done.
3)3 strikes and you're out---meaning jockeys get to use the whip a max of 3 times during a race and mainly as a correctional and/or directional aid
4)I can't agree with you on synthetics ---the jury is still out. They need to be examined in more detail.
Many of the above changes could be put in place relatively easily.
I agree with the $10 per horse per start for retirement fund, however will take that a step further and also add 1% of the earnings to a TRF type fund and this should be matched by the track. We could microchip all horses and it would be required to report to TRF when a horse is ready to be done racing. It could then be illegal to sell to the meat man on the backside or ship to local auction. Heck, we could try to get the public involved by stabling some of these horses in a barn at the track where the public could come see them and educate them with handouts and other information.

To rehome these horses we need to create a demand for them. Their previous use was in the hunter/jumper industry but they are being replaced by the warmbloods. We may need TB breed circuit shows OR possibly coordinate with USEF regarding more breed specific awards at the shows ie: high point TB hunter/jumper, best child rider on a TB, highest dressage score by a TB, etc. Year end awards would be nice, too. Make it glamorous to be riding a TB again at the shows.

More ideas, but getting tired of typing. We need to get rid of claiming races and institute a level system in racing to replace it. I have it all worked out in my head, but it is involved so won't type it here. It would maintain fair competition and prevent horses from being passed down the claiming ranks, as well as give incentives for giving horses some rest time.

As you can tell, I love horse racing, have followed it for years and would love to see it around in the future.

I don't believe any of the above would have helped Eight Belles, though. Sometimes, **** happens and there is nothing that can predict or prevent it. My heart goes out to her connections as they are getting blasted by the media frenzy. She was a lovely filly and that really was a freak injury.
I think the racing gods have been particularly cruel in the last 2 years.

[BLBGP]

To be honest, I'm not real thrilled with the number of responses in this thread. There are so many people who claim they know everything in the business, but very few have replied to your original question. Even the most diehard horseman should have a few suggestions they think would improve racing.

I also thought this would be a more popular thread. But it might have something to do with the sentiment that breakdowns are sad, but an accepted part of the sport. I see that posted a lot here and I saw Eight Belle's trainer quoted with the same sentiment. Seeing more people in the industry chime in on threads like this would be inspiring, instead of hearing the same old "horses break down doing other stuff" and "breakdowns happen in racing" and "I'm sick of hearing losers saying they can't/won't watch. Save the drama for your mama" (I took liberties with that last one, a bit).

It just doesn't give the impression that people in the industry think change is necessary, possible, or even worth considering.

[DeeThbd]

I hope/wish the industry would do that. I also wish they wouldn't allow horses to be bred till later(5) or not allowed to breed horses that never started. Maybe one day.

Some horses never start due to things like pasture accidents rather than because they aren't good enough to make the cut (ie getting kicked by another horse, etc).
I wish ALL horse industries would consider some of these suggestions....WHY do we see TWH enduring what they do as babies? Or reining horses? We can't just demonize the TB industry because it is in the public eye - what about all the non-racing training barns that DON'T have racing stewards and the public eye on them with charted works and sales stats being so readily accessible? Worth a thought.
Dee

[Equilibrium]

I thought this would be a more popular thread as well. Flame suit on, but I think people feel better crying about how horrible racing is then to try and do things about it.

But really, the biggest thing racing can do is get rid of the drugs. That is the first step in creating a better picture for racing. We don't do it over here. We have horses that bleed here too but running on lasix is not allowed. Trainers manage to deal with the bleeders. But then again I sometimes think the intense heat of racing during the summer in America is a factor in horses bleeding. We don't deal with that kind of heat here. This step has to be taken and every darn yearling and 2yo at a sale has to be tested for steroids at the cost of the vendor and buyer. I don't think you can blame stallions or mares on a whole basis for unsoundness. Some of it is manmade. When I first came around to the track in the 80's, the last of the old horseman were on there way out. The guys that made herbal concotions for legs, that worked on horses, that didn't turn to a chemist at every instance. When you think of how unsound the horses are becoming it becomes apparent that the use of steroids came with it. This is the first start, clean up the drugs.

And as far as no bute on raceday. Try 20 days from a race because that's how long it test for in the horses system. No bute in the system at all, that is the rule here. So if 18 days before a race your horse gets a stone bruise or hits himself and you use bute, he's not running in 20 days time. It's that simple. We had a filly last year that got kicked in the field, not badly just on her shoulder so her first race was put off for a month so she could be treated. Nothing in the system at all, those are the rules and they aren't hard to live by.

There will always be horses that break down but trying to decrease this rate starts with cleaning up the horses in regards to drugs. Horses gallop around fields and break a leg every now and then. It's not being immune, it's just a fact. At the moment I'm on tender hooks every time I hear a horse whinny because I'm sure somebody has tried to top themselves. And I'm not resigned to the fact of things happening because it rips my heart out. I can just try and keep them as safe as possible.

In managing the racehorses for clients we also take the retirement issue seriously and do what we can to either reschool them or find them good homes. The one thing my husband tells every one of the owners is this. "This horse has given you some really good days out." "You've had fun and you've made money so you will do the right thing by this horse and let us find him a retierment home." They don't have a choice in the matter really. And believe you me, we aren't rich, but we wouldn't have a business if it weren't for the horses so you better believe we will do all we can to try and keep them safe and happy.

I am a small breeder, the type the industry always complains about. I try to do the best I can. I try to feed for soundness when they are growing up, I try to pick stallions to compliment my mare, and I try to think of a life after racing. I love what I do and love the horses more. I will always do what I can for the horses.

Terri

[bobbybobby]

take away the new synthetic surface.....put a good base under all tracks....no vet in barn area 48 hours before race time....no medication 72 hours out.....10 hits with a whip....make jockeys pay the owner if he screws up...etc.....

[Whistlejacket]

Below is the link to a commentary (published in the NY Times) written by a member of the Board of Directors of the NY TB Horsemen's Association and managing partner of a TB racing farm in NY. It contains a well-reasoned and knowledgeable analysis and recommendations (recommendations given at the end of the article).

http://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/06/breakdowns-and-dollars/#more-122

[Showsheen]

Bay tb, thanks for taking the lead on all of this.
I just read this thread and here are my thoughts.
My suggestions are as follows:
1-No tb racing as 2 y.o.'s-no 2 y.o. in training sales!!!
2-Three y.o.'s race up to 3 x's only in three y.o. year and those must be three weeks apart at least.
3-Four y.o.'s and older may not race more than every fifteen days.
4-No Steroids-period.
5-vet checks and bone scans before all major races and vets check all racing horses for soundness before clearing to run for all races.
6-Triple Cown races at 4 and the three races are each 30 days apart.
7-Synthetic footing at all major sanctioned tracks.
8-huge fines and sanctions for excessive whipping or cruelty. (Eight Belles jockey is not guilty-Peta is right on all accounts-better track coinditions, etc, except this one, they are totally wrong).
9-Stallions may cover no more than 5o mares per year.
10-Active donations to the Tb retirement Fund-% of all racing entries,($10) gate attendance,($1), purse winnings, (10% over $10,000, 5% under $10,000),etc.
I think if we could make all these changes stick we would have a safer world for these magnificent animals who do love to run and put their heart and soul into doing it for us. Horses would be able to run much later in life and retire sound/sounder and the public would be able to get behind the sport. And breeders would have to breed for longevity and not the quick flash in the pan. Furthermore, the horse that does have a bad injury would stand a better chance of recovery if their bones were not in the middle of forming!
Please, keep us posted on your ideas and if you need us to be more proactive along with you.
Thank-you, bay tb!

[EMWalker]

I just read this article of ESPN and even though it is by a sports writer it has many valid points.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=3382235&sportCat=horse

I really believe that line-breeding has become a major problem for the TB horse industry. The racing gene pool is becoming so small and I personally think that this is why so many more breakdowns are happening today then ever before. Breeders need to get back to breeding not solely for speed but also for sturdiness and stamina.

I also agree with the article that some major drug testing needs to start. USEF and the FEI have so many regulations on what the horses (and riders in the FEI case) can and can't be on, racing should really implement some of these rules.

Anyway, RIP Eight Belles. If the Barbaro tragedy didn't open enough eyes, I really think this one did so maybe there is some light at the end of this.

[DickHertz]

[QUOTE=jolise;3192216]
3)3 strikes and you're out---meaning jockeys get to use the whip a max of 3 times during a race and mainly as a correctional and/or directional aid
QUOTE]

How 'bout 3 strikes and you're out for trainer who have 3 positives for Class III or higher medications?

[bobbybobby]

the age is never going to change ....no one has the right to dictate how many times your runs each year....so far the proof of synthetic tracks is not positive...maybe more professional horsemen would be nice .....problem is there are very few left...so your wish list is a little out of line...are industry is not that bad...it seems our problems are blown out of whack by a few people who not understand .....

[Anne FS]

New to this thread so apologies if this is already on the list; I know people have suggested it on other threads and they're exactly right:

A spokesman from RACING that will speak immediately, like the way Dr. Bramlage is always asked about all veterinary issues.

Reporters need sources. They have to quote somebody. They have to. In the absence of a racing spokesperson, they still need quotes, so who's there? PETA. HSUS. This person can say, "I don't know but I'll find out" if that's the case, but someone needs to be a source. You can see reporters use Dr. Bramlage a lot, They use Wayne Pacelle a lot. Racing needs someone to be available for quotes. For instance, I just found out today through a link at ESPN.com that there's a "Welfare and Safety of the Racehorse Summit." The second one was held in March 2008. How many people know this? A racing spokesman could've (SHOULD'VE) been out there saying all about how hard racing is working, etc. etc. but no, Nada, and so up pop the AR groups because the perception is that horse people are doing nothing.

As to the whip issue, that seems to be moving faster: Randy Moss of ESPN is calling for an outright ban and says Jerry Bailey agrees with him, and that he wrote about this weeks ago and he agrees with PETA on this. I think this one is going to come to pass.

[EMWalker]

I totally agree with you Anne. It doesn't seem like racing has someone within their governing body that speaks up about these issues/incidents excepts for the vets that speak up.

I really don't know a LOT about racing but it just doesn't seem like racing has a governing body that is stepping up to the plate.

After the string of deaths to riders and horses in the X Country sport, their governing body is stepping up and really looking at statistics and ways to change the sport. Being a horse person and really having access to horse type information and resources, I really don't see this happening in racing.

bobbybobby, racing's problems are serious and they are blown even farther out of proportion because they don't have someone stepping forward to brief the media and calm people down. They need to bring it on themselves to make some HUGE changes and it should have started long before Eight Belles, George Washington, Pine Island and Barbaro.

[Showsheen]

Oh I beg to differ bobbybobby.
The number of horses who are put down daily during racing across the country is frightening-current stats are stating they estimate 2 per racing day and that does not take into account the countless others who are blown out and ruined-and even later put down. The daily toll at smaller tracks is really bad.
One NYTimes article states that Eight Belles's trainer told his crew that all would be good as long as she came back to the barn, they had had a great experience. Coming back to the barn should be a given, not a bet to be wagered.
We owe horses a better set of odds and a better life. They give us their all, it's the least we should do.
I told a non-horse friend that I hoped no horses would die Derby day. She was appalled until I explained to her that with nine races on a card, there was usually at least one horse removed by ambulance and that it would be very bad for racing if the public saw the whole truth.
I was so, so sad but certainly not shocked that a horse died. Shocked how she went and that after she was so valiant and spectacular she died in an equally spectacular fashion, but racing pushes these young horses beyond any sensible limits for their age and maturity level. We can and should do better and now is the opportunity to make a difference, strike while the iron is hot, so to speak.
We should do this to honor the memory of Eight Belles so she can be remembered for what a great horse she was and for making the sport a better place for all horses that came after her.

[Sebastian]

Drug policy's really need to change. ... Steroids, well look no further than here to see where some unsoundness issues are started. Everywhere else bar America manages to have top notch horses without drugs so simply change it.

Terri

JMHO, but I agree with this 100%. Bravo to you Terri for bringing it up. I think it's the biggest problem with racing today.

I've worked with many OTTBs, retraining them to be sport horses, but the few that I've gotten directly from the track, were completely 'roided up. Considering the outrage that storms around human athletes using steroids, it really blows me away how freely it is used in the horse racing industry.

Carry on all!
Seb :)

[bobbybobby]

the media is one of the problems....they do blow things out of proportion....people that do not understand the industry are a problem...to many opinions .......

[hitchinmygetalong]

My biggest gripe about racing is watching the 2 year olds being pushed at the 2 year Old In Training Sales. Everyone wants to see one get that elusive "10 and 2" Which to me is ridiculous. No 2 year old should EVER be pushed to work that fast, even if it is just down the stretch. I also don't like seeing 2 year olds race, but of course with the Triple Crown races being for 3 year olds only, there will always be races for 2 year olds.

Actually, the goal now is a sub-10. Though The Green Monkey might have taught a few people a lesson that speed at the 2yo sales is not indicative of future racing potential.

Two Year Old Sales are not going away. But they can make them better. Ban whips from the grounds. Period. A rider gets caught with a whip, the horse is scratched. End of story. And for crying out loud, stop posting clocked times. You'll never eliminate all the stopwatches, but if the sales companies stop clocking and posting the times, it will hopefully de-emphasize speed and put the emphasis back where it belongs - action, balance, correctness.

[solargal]

Oh I beg to differ bobbybobby.
The number of horses who are put down daily during racing across the country is frightening-current stats are stating they estimate 2 per racing day and that does not take into account the countless others who are blown out and ruined-and even later put down. The daily toll at smaller tracks is really bad.
One NYTimes article states that Eight Belles's trainer told his crew that all would be good as long as she came back to the barn, they had had a great experience. Coming back to the barn should be a given, not a bet to be wagered.
We owe horses a better set of odds and a better life. They give us their all, it's the least we should do.
I told a non-horse friend that I hoped no horses would die Derby day. She was appalled until I explained to her that with nine races on a card, there was usually at least one horse removed by ambulance and that it would be very bad for racing if the public saw the whole truth.
I was so, so sad but certainly not shocked that a horse died. Shocked how she went and that after she was so valiant and spectacular she died in an equally spectacular fashion, but racing pushes these young horses beyond any sensible limits for their age and maturity level. We can and should do better and now is the opportunity to make a difference, strike while the iron is hot, so to speak.
We should do this to honor the memory of Eight Belles so she can be remembered for what a great horse she was and for making the sport a better place for all horses that came after her.


Everything you said is based on lack of knowledge. At small tracks it is much worse? Who says? You. I posted already that at our small track not 1 horse has been put down this year for an injury. That is 5 months of daily training and a month of races. There is no difference in stats from big track to little.

Why should we continue to try and answer questions when people continue to post things that are lies or they don't know the answer too.

Everyday a horse comes off the track in an ambulance? That would be over 25 horses a day off in the ambulance, considering that is how many tracks are usually running in ONE day. Not the one a day average that is the TRUE statistic.

Anymore more lies you would like to post?

[hessy35]

I've said it in another thread, but the racing age for horses needs to be bumped by an entire year. Starting them at 2 years old is asking for these horses to break down. Starting them a 3 would give them a much better shot, and future after racing. If only the owners would clue in that these horses could stay sound and make them more money in the long run if they would just wait for them to develop.

[Equilibrium]

I'm crap at quoting so what was this statistic about horses being put down at the track per day across America? Let's then find out how many horses across the country are put down every day for injuries beyond racing. You'd be shocked so you would. And I don't necessarily mean from other disciplines, I mean any injury. But oh no, it's just in the land of racing where horses are put down daily.

Terri

[RedEqHunter]

My drafted ideas from another forum:

That is a very, very tough question. There are many areas for improvement, but a lot of the "complaints" on the forum were caused by human greed/error and then passed along. The NTRA and TOBA try to be associations to help owners, fans, and the like. They should strive to be more educational.

The sport definitely needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Yes, there are things that can only be learned by doing or feel. But I think that all involved should be required to learn the science behind it too. Then, perhaps, there wouldn't be so many grave problems. (I thought I knew horses after riding for 10 years, but at age 18 I went to college for Equine Science - what an eye-opener!) Yes, trainers need to have licenses, and there are some programs out there for grooms. But I feel that more extensive programs should be mandatory for all, and that includes owners so that they can help make more informed decisions.

That being said, obviously racehorse owners shouldn't need to know the pros and cons of various bits or what type of feed is best. But If they can better understand why the fastest horse at the two-year-old sale isn't necessarily the best one to drop $16 million on, or why slow but sure is better, or why using drugs to mask a problem isn't a good idea - that will help. And trainers should be doing better than pointing any promising three-year-old (or even two-year-old) toward the Triple Crown just because it hypes up their owner. It's just not right or fair to anyone.

To wrap up, here's my "ideal plan":
* Educate owners, trainers, breeders, all involved on what our issues are now and what we need to do to improve. Make them learn more about the science of the horse instead of theories behind post positions, track biases, etc. They're all members of these associations - make it mandatory.
* Police tracks and fine them when there are a certain % of injuries or breakdowns (if the connections of the horse cannot be faulted). Ensure that they take appropriate steps to improve (be it working with horsemen or switching to an alternate surface).
* Simply reduce the number of races available to two-year-olds early in the season. Offer incentives for starting later. Special maiden "stakes" races for older horses. A Triple Crown for four year olds? I know there is a series for older horses - revive it!! Most don't make it that far.
* Come to a national decision on the drug debate. Obviously, most should be banned while racing. Lasix? The jury's still out for me, but I think the rules should certainly be more stringent regarding its use.

[MSP]

More data, more studies and more science!

I believe the answer is in the genes. I compare my two horses when I worked a the track, one STB one TB. My STB was built heavy and rugged; built to last and capable of racing into his teens. My TB couldn't stay sound to save her life, legs were noticeably light as a feather.

My STB raced, my TB never made it to her 2 year old training.

My TB was euthanized after a catastrophic break. And my STB will be celebrating his 35th birthday this month!

I would like to see data on all breed racing, perhaps they can all learn something from each other.

[NMK]

There's another thread about the NTRA on here but to add as a suggestion:

Form a National Governing Body for the Sport of Thoroughbred Racing. One with teeth--the ability to regulate. One that looks at the total SPORT of Horse Racing, not one myopic part of it, or just from their regional point of view.

Nancy

[Drvmb1ggl3]

The State's Rightist will be all up in arms over that one. A federal body instead of individual state racing commissions. Cool idea though, if a bit un-American.

[NMK]

It may be un-American, but it has become increasingly necessary and is not foreign to other sports: NASCAR, NFL, etc.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

It may be un-American, but it has become increasingly necessary and is not foreign to other sports: NASCAR, NFL, etc.

There is a fundemental difference between racing and all those sports.... government regulation (licensing, testing, laws etc etc).
You don't need a state issued lisence to start an NFL franchise, be a coach, a player etc etc. You do in racing, because there is pari-mutuel gambling involved. Hence state Racing Commisions, just like State DPS's and state Boards of Plumbers, Electricians etc etc etc ad infinitum.
States generally don't like ceding that power to a national governing body.

[NMK]

Yes, I am fully aware of the state regulation issue, I have navigated those waters. This thread is asking for suggestions, and here is one of them. I could go on and on about the benefits of having a governing body, one of which (pertinent to the current topic) would be the source of information concerning this incident; what is currently being done for the safety of the horses and people in this sport, and what is planned in the future.

Go over to off course and see what HBO has on at 10:00 PM May 12th.

[2LaZ2race]

* I'd love to see horses get turn out. Both my horses came from Penn National and it was just miserable there. I've never seen a happier animal than when I turned my first OTTB out to his pasture.

*Better health records- They're tatooed, they can keep amazing race records, keep records of their health and soundness so people know how to help them after their done racing/who to breed them to and improve the line.

*Give them some basic training with their race training.
-I've delt with a few trainers who use simple dressage work in their strength building and it helps the horses who don't make it at the track sell SO much faster to new homes because they actually know how to do something besides just RUN. They know leg aids, and rein aids, etc. It makes it so much easier to find them new homes and prevents them from going to slaughter.

[Anne FS]

the media is one of the problems....they do blow things out of proportion....people that do not understand the industry are a problem....

That's why having a racing spokesman, like Bramlage for veterinary issues, is critical.

A racing spokesman would inform and provide quotes to the media so that they DO know, and they can get direct quotes and not have to listen to the ARs to fill their column space or their air time. It will eliminate a lot of speculation.

For just one example, a racing spokesman could've said, in all instances like this, film of the race is reviewed to analyze if EB was in trouble during the race and/or if anything was done by the jockey or another horse....whatever they should say....The point is that from the get-go you know it's being investigated. That would've put a crimp in PETA's SUSPEND THE JOCKEY rant because it would've already been out there that everything is/was looked at immediately.

The media did a good job of getting immediately to Dr. Bramlage and quite soon to Larry Jones as to the reasons the filly was put down so quickly. Good job, there, in that reporting. That's the kind of stuff I mean.

[NMK]

Racing needs more than a spokesperson, it needs a governing body with a commissioner that has regulatory authority over state racing commissions. The NTRA is not that organization, obviously. With this tragedy alone we have any number of "authorities" all of which should be working together, yet there is no governing body for any of them to work with. Including some of the best vets in the country. And, who is reading these suggestions? Where are they being sent?

Nancy

[Florida Fan]

Of course, racing really does not care about public opinion, so racing changes will only be implemented by the people who "live in the game". But very good point, DickHertz---about artificial surfaces. You mentioned your owner bringing home "lame babies from OBS". ( I live here). The babies that train on the other farms dirt tracks really have a tough time adjusting to OBS artificial surface. Many of them get body sore even though many consignors try to relocate the babies to the sales facility a couple weeks before. I'm sure you have read that the trainers who race at various tracks are not sure the artificial surface is really positive. (Mid-Atlantic Thoroughbred, Jan'08) Hialeah, the best surface I have ever raced over--body sore horses actually got sounder, the horses loved it.

[Pat Ness]

One observation after only being on the backside 2 short partial years.
Everything in the U.S. is done going to the left, except a bit of back tracking in the morning. It seems that many of the breaks have been on a right leg. The machine walkers all go counter clockwise, the races are all the same direction - the right leg has the most weight on the turns. I know I should research and to see if left or right has the most breakdowns, but as an owner, I really despise seeing my horses always on that walker machine going the same direction. I get there as much as possible to hand walk, but it is not enough.
Pat Ness

[Acertainsmile]

New to this thread so apologies if this is already on the list; I know people have suggested it on other threads and they're exactly right:

A spokesman from RACING that will speak immediately, like the way Dr. Bramlage is always asked about all veterinary issues.

Reporters need sources. They have to quote somebody. They have to. In the absence of a racing spokesperson, they still need quotes, so who's there? PETA. HSUS. This person can say, "I don't know but I'll find out" if that's the case, but someone needs to be a source. You can see reporters use Dr. Bramlage a lot, They use Wayne Pacelle a lot. Racing needs someone to be available for quotes. For instance, I just found out today through a link at ESPN.com that there's a "Welfare and Safety of the Racehorse Summit." The second one was held in March 2008. How many people know this? A racing spokesman could've (SHOULD'VE) been out there saying all about how hard racing is working, etc. etc. but no, Nada, and so up pop the AR groups because the perception is that horse people are doing nothing.

As to the whip issue, that seems to be moving faster: Randy Moss of ESPN is calling for an outright ban and says Jerry Bailey agrees with him, and that he wrote about this weeks ago and he agrees with PETA on this. I think this one is going to come to pass.


Interesting, as Jerry could and would hit a horse when needed...I'll have to look that one up, as I cannot believe they are talking about banning whips period... whips are not just used for "whipping", they can really help if a horse is lugging in or out.

A clip of Jerry and use of the whip...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3niz2N5CAE

[I'm EBO]

I would like to see some sort of ethical regulations passed and enforced on trainers, regarding drugs. soundness of the horses in work, and disposal of the also-rans to meat dealers. The ghost of Dale Baird seem to be alive and well everywhere in racing.

I'd also like limits on breeding.

[bobbybobby]

let me put your mind at rest,the most pressure around the turn is not the right leg...if the track is big enough it is no problem.and your horses soundness is the main issue as to what lead etc....fitness is also an issue...fatigue is the major cause of break down.....walking on the machine the same way has no bearing on anything...good luck!!!!

[DickHertz]

One observation after only being on the backside 2 short partial years.
Everything in the U.S. is done going to the left, except a bit of back tracking in the morning. It seems that many of the breaks have been on a right leg. The machine walkers all go counter clockwise, the races are all the same direction - the right leg has the most weight on the turns. I know I should research and to see if left or right has the most breakdowns, but as an owner, I really despise seeing my horses always on that walker machine going the same direction. I get there as much as possible to hand walk, but it is not enough.
Pat Ness

Walking one direction on a walker doesn't hurt anything.

Also, the left front limb has more weight on the turns than the right.

[NMK]

I see the NTRA and JC have convened a summit on safety. Now that truly is a step in the right direction.

Nancy

[Pat Ness]

This topic is about suggestions and always going the same direction might make a difference.

I was thinking more about the torque on the leg and not the weight coming around the turns.

There is a place for those machine walkers, but they are definitely overused on our backside. These horses need a chance to walk with their heads level or lower and the walker does not give them this opportunity. Going the same direction does not help our horses either. Every other day they could go a different direction. I know it takes more human power and money to hand walk but I prefer to get to the track and do this as much as possible to allow them to walk more naturally.

A eurocizer when used as a walker is WONDERFUL - but probably is not going to happen on the backside.

[Ilex]

Ban 2 yr old racing.

It's just wrong.

And please don't slam me.....I've read the entire bone density report. Not just the glossy version. I know it says starting them that young builds bone density.

But I've also read reports that says just having them on 24/7 turnout w/run in shed builds bone density too!

Would like to see a logical study on bone density. Training v. Turn out v. Stalled.

Would like them to do a comparission study of joint damage to go along with it.

If anyone has run across such studies....can you tell me where I could get the white paper?

Tami

[ivy62]

Baythoroughbred-
I would love to help with reforming racing for the safety of our beloved animals before, during and after their racing careers...
Everyone is a back yard QB when something dredful occurrs. I have an OTTB that never got to the track but no one can figure out why? We think it was a feet issue from poor shoeing but we will never know,But he was never abused....when the owners decided for what ever reason that he was not to race he was donated to the rescue that I got him from. He had no injuries and was very easy to handle.
I have always been on the outside of racing, always afraid to be on the inside but I am ready to help in anyway possible. I have lots of ideas but the first and foremost is BAN DRUGS! If a horses needs to be on drugs they should not race. period end of statement. I also, believe that breeders and owners need to be a bit more involved in breeding sounder horses...BUT not all champions have good conformation anyway. Wasn't John Henry over at the knee? Didn't Seattle Slew have crocked legs. etc...but the one thing they ALL have is heart and there is no way to know who has it without training and possibly racing....
Mahuba was bred to Fair Play 6 times and you only got one Man O'War....
Breeding is a bit of a crap shoot..but anything to help them is better.
As far as feet go...the longer you can keep them barefoot with the proper trim the healthier the feet will be. Why do we have to have shoes to race?
Turnout is key for there well being and physical soundness...
Is there any truth to the fact that Ky bluegrass is better because of the calcium in the soil?
I will follow the lead and help anyway possible just let me know what I can do...

[SleepyFox]

[QUOTE=DickHertz;3196997]Walking one direction on a walker doesn't hurt anything.
[QUOTE]

DH - How do you know?

Ivy62, just a factoid, but shoeing depends on the jurisdicition, but most allow you to run barefoot with the stewards permission. In LA, you can run barefoot w/ steward approval but then must remain barefoot for the meet unless you get the stewards' approval to be shod again. Although we usually run in shoes just for traction, etc. most people I know in racing - myself included - leave our horses barefoot as long as possible and pull shoes as soon as possible. As a group - IME - we're less into shoes than a lot of other disciplines.

I'll throw out another idea - again, not a lobby point, but just an overall change. I wonder if the way we condition is the best for longterm soundness. In the average stable, horses are tacked up, hacked to the gap, jogged maybe an 1/8th and galloped between a mile and 2 miles, hacked back to the barn and put on the wheel. This is done 2, 3 or 4 times a week, with perhaps a breeze every week or 10 days and walking on the wheel the other days. The motivation is to get the horses worked quickly and everything done before the track closes. Riders are motivated to hurry up and move along since they either get paid by the head or are on salary and must work a lot of horses. The conditioning in the average barn is no different for the horse racing 11/8 miles and the horse running 5 furlongs.

Now, I am stating what the average barn does - by no means am I implying that is what everyone does. I'm sure there are some even on this BB who do it differently and/or know/employ those who do. And, yeah, I know I run on the dreaded smaller circuit where we do things the cheap and easy way. ;) But, it's still something I have wondered about for a long time.

[bobbybobby]

ones on experience is the best teacher....take someone like wayne lucas , or charlie whittingham...they had a program that worked for them .....they were and are true horsemen from the word go,why would someone from say birmingham,al.read an article about one of there horses that might have been injured on track and that person now second guesses,one of these great trainers...you walked to much to the left,you did not feed enough tea leaves,the feet were at the wrong angle,the jockey hit the horse 7 times not three,the track was to deep,the temp was to hot,or the horse had to fast of a breeze in between races....there are a lot of things people blame on someone out of pure speculation....we can sit around all day and think of things that might help,but we need to keep a little common sense into most of our ideas.

[ivy62]

Sleepyfox,
thanks for the info but the digital cushions take 5 years to be mature and that is with weight bearing. So with a shoe on and the trim most likely received is the frog in contact with the ground?
This was the only thing we found wrong with my horse. His feet were awful and everyone just said that is his feet...not true he has gorgeous unfortuanetly, small feet now. proper angles and hard as rocks. The sole depth when I got him was about 2-3 mm! you could depress it with your thumb...now it is about 10mm and going strong...Nutrition, turnout and most of all the proper trim is key. This is the one thing I have spent the last 5 years learning about and it has nothing to do directly with racing but the proper thing for any horse....why then do a lot of Tbs have lousy feet? Is it genetic?

[magnum]

Table 1: Average time course for structural and physiological adaptations to exercise training in horses.

Adaptation........................................ ...Time Course

Increase in VO2 MAX.................................1 - 2 weeks
Increase in plasma volume..........................1 - 2 weeks
Improved sweating response.......................1 - 2 weeks
Increase in red blood cells & haemoglobin......2 - 4 months
Increase in muscle capillaries......................3 - 6 months
Increase in muscle mitochondria..................4 - 6 months
Increase in muscle aerobic enzymes.............4 - 6 months
Increase in bone density*..........................4 - 6 months
Strengthening of tendons and ligaments*......4 - 6 months

*Available research on training adaptations of supporting structures is limited.

Great suggestions here ...

I haven't read all of the posts, but my 3 *MAJOR* suggestions would be:

#1) Referring to the stat's above, there was a study done in the late 80's or early 90's. It compared bone densities in trotters and pacers to Flat racers. Results? You guessed it ... the trotters and pacers had, I believe it was 25%
more bone density than our TB's. The reason? The way they are conditioned, the surfaces they run on, and the fact that THEY DO NOT CARRY A RIDER's WEIGHT!

If we do NOT let them race until age 4, then maybe folks won't be getting ON them until age 3?? Problem is, to race at TWO, they are backed at 18 mos. I would challenge ANYONE to say any horse should be backed at 18 mos. Additionally, what MAMMAL is mature prior to age 6? If I am correct, NO MAMMAL is mature prior to age 6. Yet, we are ON them at 18 mos. to meet the 2 y.o. requirement (and reduce money required to care for them prior to racing)!! This change alone (toa 4 y.o. start age) would probably change the entire face of racing. It would cost a little bit more to keep them pastures another year, but maybe that will get some of the NON horse folk out of the game. They shouldn't be here anyway.

#2) Limit the exercise riders' weight as well as the jockeys. A 200 lb. trainer breezing Eight Belles? Appalling ...

#3) Ensure that a portion of all racing monies go to OTTB RESCUE GROUPS. Racing produces the majority of castaway slaughter horses. About time that this industry takes RESPONSIBILITY for its waste and its cruelty.

Just my .02.

Magnum

[bobbybobby]

you worry about weight ....have you never seen any john wayne movies....he could run a horse for miles....one thing people seem to forget is no matter what breed ,,,,a horse is a horse....we have made them weak,unfit horses get hurt over fit horses...sometimes things just happen....

[Showpony]

In my opinion....

*ALL horses should have plenty of quality turn out time, unless there is a medical reason not to. It is the healthiest for them physically and mentally.

*ALL horses should be sufficiently mature before being strenuously started under saddle (that includes racing, western futurities, and H/J futurities). Exactly when that is is up for debate, but I find it hard to believe it could be much under 3 yrs old.

*ALL horses should be bred with physical and mental soundness in mind, as well as an alternative if they don't work out for a specific disipline.

Of course some people will have a million arguements against practicing these suggestions. And most all of the arguements, no matter how well disguised, come back to money.

Racing will never go away, not so sure it should, and horses will always break down in a disproportionately large number racing (speed kills) and some trainers will always do what they can to make the horses feel good and want to run whether it is in the horses best interest or not.

[QHJockee]

All I can say is that is no 100% safe track, and there is no 100% safe and sound horse.

Finger pointers will be what they be. Always looking for scapegoats and someone to place the blame with. As far as Bailey supposedly "agreeing" with Randy Moss and the whip ban, I find it hard to believe one of the best left-handed stickers of all time (who made a lot of money whipping and driving to the finish), I find that malarkey.

[abrant]

Whip ban - so when a horse is veering hard into the stretch... we're just going to let them run into each other?

That will be fantastic.

What astounds me about this entire thread is that many posters honestly believe this topic has never been discussed in the racing industry.

In fact, the racing industry has the *most* science (all the research money) and have been extremely proactive. I mean, I was discussing glue-on shoes with a dressage rider (a good one) the other day and she had *no clue* they've moved on to practical use. A touch behind?

And as a sidenote, they the horse industry that has really come to task about the slaughter issue. I mean, compare it with the AQHA...

And what I *truly* don't undersatnd...


I think the money is *a good thing for the horses in the end*.

Trust me, a racehorse who has the potential of earning it's own way is always going to be better taken care of than the majority of other horses. It's like people say dairy cows are abused... but abused dairy cows don't make as much money... so the 'rumour of abuse' is absurd in theory.

After seeing the world a bit... I would *much much much* rather be a claimer at Charles Town than a POS fugly QH in a Texas lot. (Sorry Texans, I just moved here and it's still fun to make fun of it, rofl)

[fish]

Ban 2 yr old racing.

It's just wrong.

And please don't slam me.....I've read the entire bone density report. Not just the glossy version. I know it says starting them that young builds bone density.

But I've also read reports that says just having them on 24/7 turnout w/run in shed builds bone density too!

Would like to see a logical study on bone density. Training v. Turn out v. Stalled.

Would like them to do a comparission study of joint damage to go along with it.

If anyone has run across such studies....can you tell me where I could get the white paper?

Tami

I'm pretty sure Brian Nielson at MSU did such a study (with others). He also runs his own horses off pasture. In his opinion, stalling + long, slow work is the worst thing to do for bone density.

Have you read the full study on horses started at 2 vs. 4, which (at least in summary) concluded that those started later broke down faster?

Always doing things in the same direction DOES matter, and in very negative ways. Anyone who's ever worked out-- or fitted saddles, or had chiropractic work done on their horses (esp. OTTB's) should know that.

Personally, I'd like to see horses in need of Lasix, Bute, pins in their legs, epoxied feet, etc., etc., kept off the track, or at least out of the high $ races. I don't see any other way to motivate breeders to select for soundness as opposed to speed horses with the mindset to run like blazes no matter how much they might hurt.