PETA wants Eight Belles jockey suspended...Opinions?

[FlightCheck]

the Lead Story for Sports Illustrated - PETA wants Eight Belles' jockey suspended.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/more/05/04/bc.rac.peta.eightbelles.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

[gg4918]

http://http://msn.foxsports.com/horseracing/story/8102414?MSNHPHCP&GT1=39002

What do you guys think?

[BarbB]

PETA wants all animals freed from human subjugation. It's hard to have a rational conversation.

[Glimmerglass]

The ignorance is amazing and only compounded by outlets like the Associated Press and Sports Illustrated for rebroadcasting this utter nonsense.

Furthermore it is repugnant for any media outlet to publish that particualr image of Eight Belles. They are doing nothing more then exploiting her unfortunate death in a way that whips up the knee-jerk frenzy.

[pds]

I could NOT CARE LESS what PETA wants.

[Linny]

The young man did what he was hired to do, he rode the race, and very well I might add. Larry Jones agrees that this is idiocy. Eight Belles crossed the line with ears up and was not whipped mercilessly at any point.
If PETA want's anyone license it should be the track superintendant who had to roll it like a drum to get all the water out so they could brag about a dry Derby track. Dry? it was like running on blacktop!

[Sithly]

Well, that's just plain dumb. Which, from what I've seen, is standard operating procedure for the PETA folks.

[regret]

Those people are idiots.

[LMH]

From the article:

'The letter to the Kentucky Horse Racing Authority also sought a ban on whipping, limits on races and the age of racehorses, and a move to softer, artificial surfaces for all courses.'


This actually seemed like a pretty mild request coming from PETA!

[shawneeAcres]

I think PETA can bite me!

[seeuatx]

I know I've said it before, but it bears repeating....


As for PETA- personally, I will never trust a group that advocates saving Pitties from abuse by eradicating the breed. By that logic lets save kids from child abuse by the same methods . I know that some AR groups will not allow horse owners to join.... period. They honestly believe that the horses should be out roaming the wild freely (while I try to figure out how my horse would survive when he won't stay in T/O for longer than 4 hours).



I think a PETA rep should get on a racehorse and see exactly how long it takes to stop one. :rolleyes:

[dressagetraks]

As my granddad was fond of saying, "If a jackass kicks you, just consider the source."

Idiots. My condolences to all the connections of Eight Belles, who cared much more about her than PETA does.

[CoolMeadows]

From the article:

'The letter to the Kentucky Horse Racing Authority also sought a ban on whipping, limits on races and the age of racehorses, and a move to softer, artificial surfaces for all courses.'


This actually seemed like a pretty mild request coming from PETA!

Very mild! I even agree with a couple of their requests, but to suspend the jockey? Come on, Eight Belles ran a smoking race. Somehow I don't think anyone could find him guilty of beating a broken horse through the finish.

[Jumphigh83]

That jock SHOULD have used his, on the run, xray vision to read the cracks in those sesemoids while blowing down the track at 40 mph. What WAS he thinking?? PETA should get a high colonic and take a ten mile hike!;);) That is what I think of that.

[gg4918]

First step: PETA has to learn which end kicks and which ends bites. proceed from there

[ktm2007]

oh please...:rolleyes:

[pandorasboxx]

Besides the suspension request, the rest of it sounds very reasonable. Just because it comes from PETA shouldn't automatically disqualify it.

Sometimes it takes the squeakest wheel to get the grease. ;)

[findlymine]

peta can kma!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[harvestmoon]

*snort*

PETA.

:rolleyes:

[Showsheen]

I see nothing that would say the jockey did anything verging on cruelty, except racing these horses too young, which would make them all guilty and all the trainers would have to be liable over and above the jockeys. Clearly the jockey knew when the horse was already going down just how bad things were. He didn't do anything wrong and she was clearly game when she was running. In fact, I logged on to see her five furlong schooling breeze before the race began and she was an amazing horse-kick-ass faaaasssssssttttttttt!
But gotta say, Peta is absolutely right about the track conditions, the age of the horses racing and the amount they should be raced. So, for once, they have a point that isn't too crazy. And they are smart to strike when the iron is hot.

[lesson junkie]

Honestly, if I hadn't read that under SI's title I'd have a hard time believing it because it's so stupid. How can anyone claiming to love animals be so ignorant?

[I'm EBO]

A lot of what PETA, and other animal rights groups, demand is, at least in some part, for the shock value. AND, it's not a bad technique. If you demand the moon, you just might get a little moonlight, which is what you wanted in the first place.

I personally think racehorses are started and raced too young. I would also prefer that every race be on turf; barring that, I'd prefer better surfaces. And I'm a fan. I really love to watch horse races as long as all the horses finish in good, sound health.

PETA and the other AR groups scare the crap out of people who make their livings using and/or exploiting animals. Sometimes, that's necessary. What do you think would have happened to Michael Vick had PETA and HSUS not gotten involved?

[Sassenach]

*facepalm*

[Petstorejunkie]

They could have picked a better picture than the vet holding a 60cc of Euthasol. Sorry but that seriously didnt need to be printed.

[Showsheen]

I'mEBO, totally agree. Most activist groups ask for wacky things to wind up somewhere in the middle ground. I just wish this would be coming from the Humane Society because they are a bit more moderate and easier to get behind. I consider myself an animal activist but I can't get behind PETA as a group because they do some crazy ass shit and I don't think you can call yourself animal activists when you are putting animals down?! Didn't they call for the death of all of Vick's Pits? But I do agree with their three major demands beyond the jockey business.

[Bluehorsesjp]

*thump* head hitting desk


ugh I hate PETA and the "set them free" mentality.

That and the general public, non horse person answer of they should have saved her because they were so successful with Barbaro. The owners were mean because they didn't want to spend the money......to try to set and repair 2 front ankles........agghh!!!

[billiebob]

So does PETA think the ethical thing to do would have been to fix the mare?!?!?!? If that's even possible with such a horrendous injury. I hate it when non-horsey people try to complain about the horse industry and have NO IDEA what they're arguing about. PETA is a PITA!

(And this is coming from a vegetarian!)

[CarrieK]

Glimmerglass, excellent post!

And as for PETA, they aren't demanding the moon to get moonlight (which is a wonderful turn-of-phrase, BTW!!!)--they want the moon. pffffft

[SilverMare]

I remember reading their messageboard. One person said horseback riding was okay if you didn't ride with any tack. Yep, have fun. This person said she didn't have a horse. Mind you, not quite sure what the rest thought.

However, PETA as a group - not a fan. The link isn't working for me so can't read the story. I vote we put their founder/leader on a racehorse, send it off, and watch her try to stop. Should we tell her pulling back often makes them go faster? ....Nah. :cool:


It's horribly sad what happened to Eight Belles, but really, no one should be charged/suspended/fired over it from the limited knowledge we have.

[Sabine]

Leave the jockey out of this....


how about:
training management
exercise rider weighing 200pd
raced 10 times last time 3 weeks before


those are the issues...not enough rest- to heavy of a rider and possibly not managed by true pros....

PETA does not know enough about the details to make qualified demands...

[elmerandharriet]

PETA is so dumb

[Centuree]

[QUOTE=But gotta say, Peta is absolutely right about the track conditions, the age of the horses racing and the amount they should be raced. So, for once, they have a point that isn't too crazy. And they are smart to strike when the iron is hot.[/QUOTE]

Nicely put, 100% agree.

[miss_critic]

This PETA crap is BS. And posting that photo is sick.

Leave the jockey out of this....


how about:
training management
exercise rider weighing 200pd
raced 10 times last time 3 weeks before


those are the issues...not enough rest- to heavy of a rider and possibly not managed by true pros....

PETA does not know enough about the details to make qualified demands...




Before I get excited, you're kidding, right?

[hedmbl]

While I think PETA is an over the top organization that I honestly have zero respect for, some of the points mentioned in their letter (as stated in the article) are the same ones very knowledgeable horse people have been talking about here. Such as not racing until older, softer surfaces (although wasn't this year the first time the Derby was run on a synthetic track?) and limits on number of races.

I know that doesn't have much to do with suspending the jockey (which I don't really think is called for in this situation) but they do have some un-crazy points as well. Too bad it is eclipsed by their over the top railing about animal domestication in general.

I've never understood their logic in 'releasing' all of our horses from their horrible imprisonment to be 'free' (ie: hit by cars on the freeway) :eek:

[Drvmb1ggl3]

This PETA crap is BS. And posting that photo is sick.






Before I get excited, you're kidding, right?


Miss C, don't feed the trolls.
This poster has gone on record in the past stating that racing is inhumane and cruel. You can't argue with the clueless.

Actually might be a good idea to take a break from this forum for a while. The sudden appearance of slew of "expert" opinions (hmmm, where were all these people before?) makes the place a tedious read.

I notice the Guineas thread got less than 50 views. Real hardcore racing fans around here for sure.

See y'all in a few.

[Pat]

I'm 99% sure that Churchill has NOT changed to PolyTrack.

On that note, there was a recent article in the Thoroughbred Times about the Poly surface. It may not be so much better. Apparently there has NOT been the hoped for drop in catastrophic injuries. If any one is interested in those details, I'll hunt around for the issue. I'm pretty sure that issue didn't go out with the recycling before we moved.

I also think PETA is a bag of nuts... I also agree that 2-y-olds should not be racing. Not at all would be nice. Later in the year I could live with... There was a call for STB's to quit racing babies atleast until late in the calendar year. Fine by me.

[kateh]

Ugh. I got a letter from them a few weeks ago with blatant lies about laboratory animals. I should add I spent all last semester working in a neuroscience research lab that used rats. So PETA can call me when someone brain injures them.

[lauriep]

The ONLY thing PETA is interested in is POWER. They don't really give a rat's ass about how animals are treated; they care WHO DECIDES how animals are treated and they want to be that WHO, not us.

They are exceptionally good at what they do, and hugely funded. They have spies on ALL animal BBs and chatrooms, looking for things that we talk about as part of our daily lives that they can then turn around to use against us. They appropriate our terminology and buzzwords and then use it against us. What they have done/are doing to dog and cat breeders will also be turned on horse breeders, and horse performance events. Do not take ANYTHING that these people do lightly, and do not underestimate them. They are far from being stupid or morons. They are VERY driven.

[huntereq7]

This was a horrible accident, but I don't agree with PETA. Accidents happen- every person in the horse world knows that. It's a horrible thing to happen, but it does. I know it's a huge sport in the US, but personally I don't agree with taking 2 and 3 year old horses and putting their underdeveloped bodies through such grueling training. Waiting until their bones are fully developed and strong wouldn't eliminate all of these accidents such as what happened to Eight Belles, but it would sure reduce them.

RIP Eight Belles

[Fixerupper]

PETA=PITA
Everybody in horse sport (whatever discipline) is saddened by these kinds of disasters...we don't necessarily all want to turn all horses loose in Wyoming (or where-ever).

[Where'sMyWhite]

But gotta say, Peta is absolutely right about the track conditions...

I'd have to disagree. The official racing chart listed the track as fast; that is not ankle deep in mud.

[Toadie's mom]

I didn't even bother to read the PETA thread, won't even go there. I'm a horse racing fan, and owner, and do agree that a lot of race horses are started too young. Eight Belles being a 17h 3yr old probably should have had more time to mature. Or maybe not, I never saw the filly in person, nor am I a vet, or qualified trainer! I do believe that like most of these situations, us common "lay persons" do not have the definitive answer. There WAS a mistake in the original data reported about synthetic versus reg. dirt surfaces (someone mentioned the original report above). It has now been proven that synthetic surfaces have had less catastrophic, and bone injuries, but more soft tissue injuries than reg. dirt tracks.

As far as the jockey, PULLLLEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. The poor kid is 20yrs. old. He went from the absolute highest high (winning the Ky. Oaks on Fri.), to the absolute lowest low within 24hrs. I think he's suffered enough.

[jumpingpercheron]

OMG, PETA doesn't even want people to go fishing. Not suprising they'd have something like this to say about yesterdays tragic accident :(

I have had a couple run ins with PETA. I drove carriages for 2 years in Salt Lake City and every now and then they'd come out and protest. They'd call us Slave Drivers and tell me that my DRAFT HORSE would be so much happier out running wild and free. I told them to read up on drafts and educate themselves before they go down that road. Wild draft horses huh? Our carriage barn was always spotless and the horses were extremely well cared for by the owners and the drivers spoiled the hell out of them. There was always an open invite to the Humane Society, Animal Control, etc...and they'd stop by frequently just to see the novelty of the drafts and not ever was there even one issue.

[HARROLDhasmyheart]

I am not surprised that PETA wants the jockey suspended, but I do think it's kind of ridiculous. As previously said, he rode the race that he was hired to, and didn't hurt Eight Belles. Accidents (or in this case, tragedies) happen. It's sad and terrible, but true.

[Sabine]

This PETA crap is BS. And posting that photo is sick.






Before I get excited, you're kidding, right?

No- tell me why you're so right then?!!
I'd love to know and I'd sleep better....give me some good reasons why this happened!

[skatepixie]

PETA is a pain in the @$$ and they can kiss mine. :winkgrin:

[AUeventer]

I knew the instant this happened that PETA was going to have their ugly hand in it....it's only a matter of time before they really get wind of what's happened in eventing lately and start attacking us too.

Yes, maybe they didn't sound terribly unreasonable in what you read, but I bet what you didn't read was on their website where they so clearly stated that they wished for a COMPLETE end to racing. Of course, they're never going to get it, but why even let them get a foot in the door?? And I'm sure PETA's "brilliant" suggestions have been a source of debate among those involved in the industry long before now. Suspension of the jockey? Ludicrous. It just makes me sick to know they are making money off of this tragedy and the "hype" surrounding it. I also agree with previous posters, shame on the major news outlets for publishing this crap and giving any credibility to it whatsoever.

[Thomas_1]

IMO PETA are a bunch of fruitloops.

But you can't knock them for spotting an opportunity and exploiting that to get across their campaigning message.

I also said that the poor little f***er didn't deserve that! I REALLY abhor the wasting of youngsters in flat racing.

[time fault]

PETA is a hypocritical cash cow. Where were they at Rolex this year? What about last year? What about every other venue in the equestrian industry that this happens on a regular basis?

Hypocritical. Just because something is nationally televised...

[TwoArabs]

Thr last organization to have any credibility is PETA. They do more harm than good. JMhO

[Thomas_1]

PETA is a hypocritical cash cow. Where were they at Rolex this year? What about last year? What about every other venue in the equestrian industry that this happens on a regular basis?

Hypocritical. Just because something is nationally televised...

Like I said, I think they're a bunch of fruit loops. But got to say they're effective at campaigning and lobbying and drawing in the mass-public into their (IMO bonkers) agenda.

Its VERY naive to think that when a 2 year old horse dies on the TV in front of the general public that a lobbying animal rights organisation isn't going to make fuel of it.

Now I think PETA are unreasonable and sensationalist and have a mad agenda but I also think that there's a minority section that has to clean up its act and in turn pro-actively manage the public perception and this means they've to stop wasting youngsters and better manage the retired and failed.

[copper1]

HA! they want to turn the horses LOOSE with all the dairy cows?????? I am sure even the cruelest race horse trainer does not set out to race a horse planning to have it injured at some point on the track! Accidents do happen and none of us knows why this one did. I am sure it will be researched but still may not get an answer. Was it the track? Is it the bloodlines? Weakness in that particular horse? Old injury? Too big too young?
I think PITA would do far better taking care of the over breeding of dogs and cats and the inhumane conditions they are often subjected to-a far greater problem involving more people than horse racing! WE all need to start policing ourselves-doing our best not to get involved with inhumane treatment of our animals by ourselves, our own trainers, and those we see around us!

[Anne FS]

From the article:

'The letter to the Kentucky Horse Racing Authority also sought a ban on whipping, limits on races and the age of racehorses, and a move to softer, artificial surfaces for all courses.'


This actually seemed like a pretty mild request coming from PETA!

Don't be fooled. They've read all the coverage on the synthetic surface issue, which has been EXTENSIVE, and now that they see it's coming along, which the average non-horse person has no clue about, they'll trumpet that it's because of PETA's influence that tracks are doing it. HSUS'll be next.

[kcgold]

Leave the jockey out of this....


how about:
training management
exercise rider weighing 200pd
raced 10 times last time 3 weeks before


those are the issues...not enough rest- to heavy of a rider and possibly not managed by true pros....

PETA does not know enough about the details to make qualified demands...

sorry, but I don't think YOU know enough about the details. Not enough rest? She last raced FOUR weeks before the Derby, in the Fantasy at Oaklawn. The third and fourth place finishers also raced that weekend. Several of the other entries raced THREE weeks prior to the Derby in the Bluegrass stakes, so she had more rest than they did.

[Anne FS]

I am not surprised that PETA wants the jockey suspended, but I do think it's kind of ridiculous.

No, it's not. From PETA's perspective. They are extremely media savvy and if they had asked for all the other things their story would not have gotten the same coverage. It's the formal request for jockey suspension that got them the news. They know it won't happen, but say "jockey suspension" after any big race and news outlets are going to pick it up. Which is exactly what happened.

PETA does not envision all the horses and dairy cows running "wild and free." They envision that most of them will die because man has made them unfit to live on their own, and eventually most of them will die but what survives will be as NATURE intended, not man, and that is their goal.

There is a lot of naivete about PETA on this list. Animal people cannot just huff and say, well, they're idiots. They're very successful, influential idiots. Example: in VA several PETA activists were caught dropping into dumpsters the bodies of dogs they'd taken from shelters, promising to rehome but killed instead. They got off. Oh, wait, charges were reduced to "littering," they were convicted of that, and even that was overturned. Now, if you or I had taken an animal from a shelter, killed it and dumped it in a dumpster, do you think for one minute you'd have gotten the same deal? Read about it here:

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/04/peta-workers-convictions-north-carolina-overturned

Please, read all you can about PETA and write letters and emails to whatever news organizations run their stupid story,
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/21

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/282260/peta_when_animal_rights_becomes_terrorism.html

[Moderator 1]

We moved a thread on this topic here from H/J and merged it with another one here. Sorry for any inconsistancies that result.

Thanks!
Mod 1

[867-5309]

PETA is ri-g**damned-diculous. Period.

[Frank B]

Same old Bravo Sierra from their playbook. PETA's just trying to sucker Soccer Moms and Couch Potato Dads who function on emotion rather than common sense into giving them money.

[BabyGreen]

Since you racing people don't seem to want to take action, you've left it too the loonies to speak for the horses.

Back in the early 19th century, abolitionists were considered loonies.

[FAW]

I suppose they will picket every race track and rodeo in the country. You can see how far it got them with the circus.

[Jumphigh83]

PETA is interested in its political agenda NOT the welfare of animals. If they really cared about animals they would have a better understanding of them.

[texang73]

The ignorance is amazing and only compounded by outlets like the Associated Press and Sports Illustrated for rebroadcasting this utter nonsense.

Furthermore it is repugnant for any media outlet to publish that particualr image of Eight Belles. They are doing nothing more then exploiting her unfortunate death in a way that whips up the knee-jerk frenzy.

Very much agreed.

[ccoronios]

copper1: "WE all need to start policing ourselves-doing our best not to get involved with inhumane treatment of our animals by ourselves, our own trainers, and those we see around us!"

This has been my mantra for YEARS!!! And as more and more tragedies (whether preventable or not) occur and become national news, the more important it is that we do so NOW. And we MUST get over our barn/discipline blindness "holier than thou" attitude toward other equine competitions because if we don't all 'hang together', we WILL all HANG SEPARATELY.

Can you imagine the impact if eventers and dressagers and h/jers and QHers and racers (both TB & STB) and Saddlebred folk (etc. etc. & so forth) ALL got together to resolve issues that affect ALL of us?

Yeah - can you imagine that whole group even TALKING to each other without pointing fingers???

[Acertainsmile]

Since you racing people don't seem to want to take action, you've left it too the loonies to speak for the horses.

Back in the early 19th century, abolitionists were considered loonies.

You should really educate yourself before you post... Hopefully you will do some research regarding this link. (but somehow I doubt it).

http://www.grayson-jockeyclub.org/aboutDisplay.asp?section=2

[animaldoc]

PETA is soooo ignorant and just out for the shock value- they're hoping they can use this tragedy to get all the racehorses (and pleasure horses and "captive" animals) set free, be free! be free!. :rolleyes:

Even the article shows how ignorant they are- they say that the horse was "doubtlessly injured before the finish" (no way) and that they want the jockey suspended since he didn't feel anything because he was allowed to whip the horse mercilessly (his whip wasn't out at the end)....

Geeeeezzzz.

[Acertainsmile]

PETA is soooo ignorant and just out for the shock value- they're hoping they can use this tragedy to get all the racehorses (and pleasure horses and "captive" animals) set free, be free! be free!. :rolleyes:

Even the article shows how ignorant they are- they say that the horse was "doubtlessly injured before the finish" (no way) and that they want the jockey suspended since he didn't feel anything because he was allowed to whip the horse mercilessly (his whip wasn't out at the end)....

Geeeeezzzz.

It will all be over as soon as someone goes frame by frame, and stride by stride... the film will show that she broke down pulling up.

[J Swan]

Having been a victim of a violent PETA attack, I can say with a great deal of confidence that the only difference between them and Al Quada is....

Well - there isn't any.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[AppJumpr08]

Well, if PETA plans on letting all horses run free across the plains, are they going to check the footing first, and tell the babies they can't run too fast?
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'm not in favor of all that goes on in racing, and I was heartbroken to watch the filly breakdown, but it wasn't her jockey's fault. Hell, he tried to pull her up!! Leave the poor guy alone.

Honestly.

[Anne FS]

It will all be over as soon as someone goes frame by frame, and stride by stride... the film will show that she broke down pulling up.

For heaven's sake, people! That's not the point for PETA. The point is that the vast majority of people won't watch frame by frame and stride by stride, all they'll know about it is PETA's statement. And they will believe it.

CNN.com's question of the day is "Did racing do enough to prevent injury...?" and guess what? 61% so far say NO. Gee, think any of them watched the race? Bet very few did, but they read the PETA article.

[Pat]

Since you racing people don't seem to want to take action, you've left it too the loonies to speak for the horses.

Back in the early 19th century, abolitionists were considered loonies.

I have to agree with ACertainSmile that this post is a bit ignorant. You might want to do a little reading on the subject, there are plenty of people who would like to see more than a little change.

Why else would tracks spend large amounts of cash and suffer down time when putting in PolyTrack?? Last year I visited Keenland in July. It was simulcasting only as they ripped up the dirt and put down the Poly. Why would they do that if they didn't think it was good for everybody?

And as I said, there ARE hi-profile STB people looking to make changes in when horses make thier first starts. But is is hard to reinvent the wheel.

Who ever posted about the injury rates on Poly, please send me a link or something about that. I'm curious!! If it was in TB Times, I probably missed it, been too busy to *really* read it lately. I was pretty surprised that the stats showed no improvement over traditional surfaces.

Short of us all letting our animals loose to die "naturally", PETA will not leave us alone. The best thing to do is continue to point out thier erroneous 'conclusions' especially if those are published in print. Don't let publishers get away with only printing thier skewed side of the story.

[Katy9532]

PETA is interested in its political agenda NOT the welfare of animals. If they really cared about animals they would have a better understanding of them.


I totally have to agree, they are 100% political. Does anyone at PETA even own an animal? The have no clue!!!!!!

[animaldoc]

[QUOTE=Anne FS;3190283]For heaven's sake, people! That's not the point for PETA. The point is that the vast majority of people won't watch frame by frame and stride by stride, all they'll know about it is PETA's statement. And they will believe it.QUOTE]

I totally agree- and the general public won't make any distinction between what happened at Rolex and what happened at the Derby. Also, in the next 5 weeks we have 2 major races and in the fall we have the Olympics. I really hope that there aren't anymore newsworthy stories (other than a Triple Crown winner!) because if there are I think we're all (sporthorse enthusiasts) in trouble......

[bobbybobby]

there are two sides to every story....unfortunately peta is wrong...

[lcw579]

That jock SHOULD have used his, on the run, xray vision to read the cracks in those sesemoids while blowing down the track at 40 mph. What WAS he thinking?? PETA should get a high colonic and take a ten mile hike!;);) That is what I think of that.

Very Funny.

FWIW - I happened to have the View on just now and Whoopi mentioned Eight Belles and then PETA - I groaned - then she went on to say that PETA should get its facts straight before they started in on things because it was clear that jockeys loved their horses and wouldn't ride a "sick" one. Paraphrasing but that was the jist. Thought it was nice to have a Hollywood type calling PETA on the carpet for once.

[Anne FS]

Yikes-ers! Go Whoopi! Let's keep working to get more and more public speaking out against the misinformation and downright lies of PETA.

www.petakillsanimals.com

[seeuatx]

Very Funny.

FWIW - I happened to have the View on just now and Whoopi mentioned Eight Belles and then PETA - I groaned - then she went on to say that PETA should get its facts straight before they started in on things because it was clear that jockeys loved their horses and wouldn't ride a "sick" one. Paraphrasing but that was the jist. Thought it was nice to have a Hollywood type calling PETA on the carpet for once.

I had that exact same reaction. I was waiting to hear them agree with PETA, and I actually clapped when she said that. Not today, but Rachel Ray has also called PETA out (she is involved in Pitbull rescue, and disagrees with PETA's extermination campaign).

[olympicdreams04]

PETA is a PITA!!! At our derby party, a "world renowned" farrier that I can't stand INSISTED and subsequently convinced 1/2 the party of mostly uninformed backyard horse owners that Eight Belles broke down "at the top of the stretch, at the "3/4 pole (idiot)" and had so much heart to run a whole "1/2 mile" on "two broken legs". OH. MY. GOD. The idiocy of some people astounds me.

[slc2]

PEta actually went to court for animal abuse - abusing a duck so they could take a picture of an 'abused animal' for a brochure.

we watched the video very, very carefully many times. eight belles ran a straight race. she may have hit a hole when she got hurt - whatever happened happened very suddenly, and well after the race. sometimes a horse will even stumble a little over a shadow on the ground...cool reception i think it was, jumped over a shadow and got hurt. it happens.

we also watched all her workouts and breezes, a website posted all those. you could watch all the horse's recent works and races.

the thing that i thought was very interesting about belles is that she seemed to 'work herself'.

she didn't seem to need a lot of pressure at all to work, and she didn't seem to go wild or run too fast, either. she just had a big stride and she just went along.

it has been said she shouldn't have run against colts. that's ridiculous. that doesn't change the conditions of the race any. i don't like hearing people say that boy horses are better than girl horses. i DO believe, however that geldings MIGHT grow faster than fillies. i have heard that for other animals that gelding affects growth. fillies may need to wait a couple months more, i don't think it's YEARS, but it is possible that for some of the bigger fillies, a couple months might make a difference. the derby is in early may, that is early in their 3rd year. i am not sure why it has to be so early in the year, other than tradition. all the horses might be a lot more ready in sept of their 3 year old year.

if i would blame anything, i would look at the track surface. it had been very wet the previous day, and there may have been a spot after the finish where the track was just the slightest bit deeper. that does make a difference.

the other thing we thought was that was a rough race in that there were 20 horses on the track. pulling up horses, speeding up, slowing down, often abruptly, and working in a traffic jam does tire horses out. if i would blame anything else, i would say we don't need 20 horses in the kentucky derby. it tires them out too much to slow down and speed up and work thru the traffic. we also thought it might take more out of a bigger horse with a big stride, that needs to just lope along.

i used to come out of a jammed up bicycle race with nothing in my legs at the end, if i had a steady pace and 1 sprint at the end i had a lot more left in my legs. in any sport, human or equine, there is less effort and less strain with keeping a steadier speed and doing 1 acceleration at the end.

i did have a feeling the filly may have tired toward the end of the race, but it was not alot, and she seemed to finish very smart, and not force herself, after all, she let Big Brown go, she wasn't killing herself over it. she did not finish under a lot of pressure from the whip, except to keep her straight. i'd assume she was a little green to run - i saw the jockey use a big opening rein once and she was like responding like a big tall green horse. she was very big and tall. he used the whip more to straighten her out than anything else.

we did talk about that. ruffian was also very big and tall and a couple people we heard say she should have had a couple more months before a long race. that's possible, but a lot of tall horses run without getting hurt. i thought ruffian moved a little crooked with one foreleg and that may have gotten strained if she stepped on a bad spot. belles was a cleaner mover from what we saw, though again the videos were pretty poor quality. we might see more with a better film.

for those who think they know why this happened, why didn't we hear from them before the race, if they knew this filly was not ready and why it would break down? no one suggested eight belles was going to break down in both forelegs before the race.

i think people who think they can tell the future really need to get a nobel prize and also need to have their crystal balls polished up so they can end world hunger and war.

[ravenclaw]

Is PETA's standard operating procedure to jump on the most high-profile cases? Because I went to their website this morning. Eight Belles is the lead story, but there doesn't seem to be anything about the 4 event horses that have died within the past couple of months. It seems like they should be worked up into more of a frenzy over that. :rolleyes:

I really liked Eight Belles and I think very highly of Larry Jones. From everything I have ever heard, Larry is a great guy who really cares about his horses and does a great job with them. I feel so badly for him, all of his staff, the jockey, and the owner. I'm sure they are all devastated.

[Anne FS]

Is PETA's standard operating procedure to jump on the most high-profile cases?

Uh, YEAH. Where've you been? That's what they do. And it works (by works I mean it fills their coffers allowing them to fund anti-dog legislation, among other things). But yes, that's their MO.

... there doesn't seem to be anything about the 4 event horses that have died within the past couple of months. It seems like they should be worked up into more of a frenzy over that.

The derby is NOW, they'll go for eventing closer to the Olympics. I'm not joking.

Again and again, they know what they're doing.

[Catsdorule-sigh]

Are PETA the people who tried to stop rodeo? I’m not for everything that goes on there, but most bucking horses lead a fair life for 8 –10 seconds of work. From what I’ve read, horses can’t buck if that bucking strap is tight and spurs have to roll. A good bucking horse is valuable and they are not going to mismanage them.

I cried over Eight Belles. But saw no evidence she was lame during the race. Agree with slc2 the most probable cause was a bad spot on the track. With what happened to Chelokee on the same track, even in the slop, one wonders about the condition of the track’s base.

I am glad NBC chose not to, or couldn’t, air more of Eight Belles tragedy. I can’t imagine what it does to those who owned and loved those horses to have that moment replayed for eternity.

If PETA wants to do good, without headline attention grabbing, why not something about indiscriminate breeding of dogs with hip problems? Get after puppy mills. Is it any less a crime to breed a dog that will be crippled before it’s halfway through life, than to race a horse?

PETA’s ultimate answer would seem to be, let the horses go- and they’ll starve and get hurt but I guess in their book that would not be abuse.

I have owned a horse that was far happier working than being a pasture pet.

On the flip side, some people in the animal business should know better and not insist on breeding because they like an animal or because of an ego thing. Breeding HYPPN horses should not be. I know a stock horse stallion that should have been gelded as a weanling, crooked leg. But the excuse was, “They don’t care about that, they want the muscling.” And so he stood at stud.

Unique to racing? Don’t think so. Mentioned before, are stock horse futurities. I saw a brood mare on a farm I did a double take over. Front legs were so offset I doubt she ever had, or ever could have been, ridden. Yet there she was, a brood mare, because she had the “bloodlines.” The cowboy starting young stock shook his head when I asked about it. He said they just don’t care. They’ll boot up the horse, get them through the futurities,(cutting horse in this case) and that’s all they want. (Ranch cowboy from Montana. Said where he’s from, they liked TB’s and TB crosses because they’d go all day and cover a lot of ground. First cowboy I ever saw posting the trot, too. Said he’d have his XXXX chewed for sitting a trot for long-for the sake of the horse, not his XXXX)

There is good and bad in all branches of equine industry and unfortunately, it’s the bad that get the headlines, or the one bit of bad luck. I'm not trying to say it's all one way nor do I think a trainer gets to the derby and has winners without being a pretty fair horse person.

Can racing do better? Of course. But it’s bucking tradition and money. If turf is better, got to turf. I’ve reservations about poly including long term effects of inhaling the stuff, given recent concern about astroturf.

No 2 year old racing or at least not until the fall.

Slide Triple Crown races by month, at least. Man O’ War’s owner didn’t run him in the Derby because he thought it too soon to go 1-1/4 miles, although he did run horses later in the Derby.

Make it lucrative to run horses after 3 years old.

I don’t see how the industry can keep going the way it is. All the money seems to be made in the breeding shed. How many horses actually earn back the breeding fee, let alone the cost of getting them to the track?

Racing is no longer the sport of Kings- not a bad thing except it’s going to take a core group with money and integrity to change the course of breeding for sounder animals.

Maybe instead of a bonus for winning the Triple Crown, or any set of races, there should be additional bonus for winning and staying sound or running through the 4 year old year.

Pet peeve- quit calling any race over a mile a “classic” distance. IMHO, you’re not talking classic until 1-1/2 miles and over.

I've got to ask this question and I'm not taking anything away from the tragedy of Eight Belles, but would this have garnered the attention it did if it hadn't been, "the filly?" In the Derby? Or a potential Triple Crown contender like Barbaro? To me it's no less of a tragedy it's a claimer at a local track.

[Anne FS]

I apologize for being repetitive but that seems to be what it takes.


If PETA wants to do good, without headline attention grabbing, why not something about indiscriminate breeding of dogs with hip problems?

PETA does not at all want "to do good, without headline attention grabbing." Why do you possibly think that? PETA admits it does it's totally loopy, off-the-wall stunts specifically to grab attention. So you're way off there.

Get after puppy mills. Is it any less a crime to breed a dog that will be crippled before it’s halfway through life, than to race a horse?

Where have you been? PETA and HSUS are going after puppy mills with legislation designed to wipe out just about ALL breeding. Actually, their legislation will pretty much ensure that the only people who can afford to breed will be: the puppy millers.



PETA’s ultimate answer would seem to be, let the horses go- and they’ll starve and get hurt but I guess in their book that would not be abuse.


Not "would seem to be." IS. Their answer IS that all animals must have no contact with man, and that yes, many if not most of the (their words) pathetic excuses for domestic animals will die, and what is left will be free and as nature intended, but the important thing is NO animal contact with man.

[QHJockee]

IMO, it's not that so much they race these horses too young (Quarter Horses are way worse - loads smaller than TB's and they start racing 2 yo's in February); rather, they race them too much too young. Look at Curlin & Big Brown - don't need to overload at 2 or even race at all at 2 to excel in the business.

Also, I feel today too much emphasis is based on "breed for speed". Go back to the distance and some things may change.

[Alibhai's Alibar]

GREAT post!!!


Are PETA the people who tried to stop rodeo? I’m not for everything that goes on there, but most bucking horses lead a fair life for 8 –10 seconds of work. From what I’ve read, horses can’t buck if that bucking strap is tight and spurs have to roll. A good bucking horse is valuable and they are not going to mismanage them.

I cried over Eight Belles. But saw no evidence she was lame during the race. Agree with slc2 the most probable cause was a bad spot on the track. With what happened to Chelokee on the same track, even in the slop, one wonders about the condition of the track’s base.

I am glad NBC chose not to, or couldn’t, air more of Eight Belles tragedy. I can’t imagine what it does to those who owned and loved those horses to have that moment replayed for eternity.

If PETA wants to do good, without headline attention grabbing, why not something about indiscriminate breeding of dogs with hip problems? Get after puppy mills. Is it any less a crime to breed a dog that will be crippled before it’s halfway through life, than to race a horse?

PETA’s ultimate answer would seem to be, let the horses go- and they’ll starve and get hurt but I guess in their book that would not be abuse.

I have owned a horse that was far happier working than being a pasture pet.

On the flip side, some people in the animal business should know better and not insist on breeding because they like an animal or because of an ego thing. Breeding HYPPN horses should not be. I know a stock horse stallion that should have been gelded as a weanling, crooked leg. But the excuse was, “They don’t care about that, they want the muscling.” And so he stood at stud.

Unique to racing? Don’t think so. Mentioned before, are stock horse futurities. I saw a brood mare on a farm I did a double take over. Front legs were so offset I doubt she ever had, or ever could have been, ridden. Yet there she was, a brood mare, because she had the “bloodlines.” The cowboy starting young stock shook his head when I asked about it. He said they just don’t care. They’ll boot up the horse, get them through the futurities,(cutting horse in this case) and that’s all they want. (Ranch cowboy from Montana. Said where he’s from, they liked TB’s and TB crosses because they’d go all day and cover a lot of ground. First cowboy I ever saw posting the trot, too. Said he’d have his XXXX chewed for sitting a trot for long-for the sake of the horse, not his XXXX)

There is good and bad in all branches of equine industry and unfortunately, it’s the bad that get the headlines, or the one bit of bad luck. I'm not trying to say it's all one way nor do I think a trainer gets to the derby and has winners without being a pretty fair horse person.

Can racing do better? Of course. But it’s bucking tradition and money. If turf is better, got to turf. I’ve reservations about poly including long term effects of inhaling the stuff, given recent concern about astroturf.

No 2 year old racing or at least not until the fall.

Slide Triple Crown races by month, at least. Man O’ War’s owner didn’t run him in the Derby because he thought it too soon to go 1-1/4 miles, although he did run horses later in the Derby.

Make it lucrative to run horses after 3 years old.

I don’t see how the industry can keep going the way it is. All the money seems to be made in the breeding shed. How many horses actually earn back the breeding fee, let alone the cost of getting them to the track?

Racing is no longer the sport of Kings- not a bad thing except it’s going to take a core group with money and integrity to change the course of breeding for sounder animals.

Maybe instead of a bonus for winning the Triple Crown, or any set of races, there should be additional bonus for winning and staying sound or running through the 4 year old year.

Pet peeve- quit calling any race over a mile a “classic” distance. IMHO, you’re not talking classic until 1-1/2 miles and over.

I've got to ask this question and I'm not taking anything away from the tragedy of Eight Belles, but would this have garnered the attention it did if it hadn't been, "the filly?" In the Derby? Or a potential Triple Crown contender like Barbaro? To me it's no less of a tragedy it's a claimer at a local track.

[bt]

PETA = ridiculous irrational overzealots

[Mudroom]

Evidently PETA is planning a demonstration/protest at the Ky Horse Park tomorrow (Tuesday) protesting the thorobred racing industry. I am sure they have the press all lined up.

[au_panda]

They left a T out of their acronym. It should be PETTA - Particularly Egregious Twits Targeting Animals.

I was surprised to see an article like this in Sports Illustrated. It seems a little short sighted on their part - an article implying support of a group trying to limit (really to eliminate) a sport involving hundreds of millions of dollars, some of which probably end up in their "profits" as advertising dollars. I certainly hope racing pulls any financial support of SI and any other magazines/media participating in this witch hunt.

Condolences to the connections of Eight Bells.

[sspeight]

I don't see any problem with what the jockey did. There isn't an ounce of proof that the jockey did something wrong. She was at a flat-out gallop and he wouldn't have been able to stop her. I thought PETA was still busy dealing with the fall out from their people euthanizing hundreds of animals that they took to supposedly find homes for. They didn't do anything with the carcasses besides chucking them in the dumpster. Guess they're past that now and have to go after poor Eight Belles jockey. Sad!

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I was so hoping PETA would shut up about this.

I can't imagine how the jockey must feel - I am pretty certain he is devastated. And then to have morons who know nothing about anything point accusatory fingers...

I am so, so sorry.

[Anne FS]

PETA has taken a page from HSUS' book: insert yourself into a situation as an authority.

<<People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals has called for the suspension of Saez, and it faxed a letter Sunday to Kentucky's racing authority claiming the filly was "doubtlessly injured before the finish." The group says Saez should have pulled her up rather than finish.

PETA spokeswoman Kathy Guillermo said if Saez is found at fault, the group wants the second-place prize of $400,000 won by Eight Belles to be revoked.

"What we really want to know, did he feel anything along the way?" Guillermo said. "If he didn't then we can probably blame the fact that they're allowed to whip the horses mercilessly.">>

Just look at that. "doubtlessly injured before the finish." And making demands: "the group wants the second-place prize...to be revoked." "What we really want to know..." Who the HELL are they? They "really want to know" - like no one else is asking questions or even TRYING to figure out what happened. "If he didn't [feel anything wrong], then we can probably blame...they're allowed to whip the horses mercilessly." A classic tactic: like asking when did you stop beating your wife? it gets "allowed to whip mercilessly" out there as a fact, which of course it is not.

Just like with the 20-some dogs in the dumpster, PETA has NO authority to kill dogs or to demand ANYTHING, but they do. And it WORKS. Organizations feel that have to report back to PETA. Just like HSUS. This has really got to be stopped.

[souvenir]

I thought Mike Celizic had an insightful column here: http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24468641/site/21683474/

He is calling for a fix to the industry.

[Anne FS]

From an AP story, Larry Jones' whip comment playing right into PETA's hands:

"The Humane Society of the United States also weighed in Monday, arguing that horses are becoming more fragile because they're being bred for speed, not durability.

"There are problems coming to light more than ever - problems related to breeding," said Wayne Pacelle, Humane Society president. Breeding too many horses, and waiting for someone else to clean up the problem. And breeding them for body characteristics that make these animals vulnerable to breakdowns, especially those spindly legs on top of these stout torsos."
....
Jones said he has watched the race from various angles and found that not only did Saez do nothing wrong, but everything right.
---
Jones acknowledged changes could made to make the sport safer, ...Stewards could, for example, mandate lighter whips or riding crops, Jones said."




PETA and HSUS read stuff that people within the industry are saying. Then they take it like its THEIR idea to look into what no one else will.

[Lady Counselor]

Peta always has, and always will be a bunch of attention whores. They happen to have animals as their agenda, but the reality is they have done very little of real value. :no:

[dogchushu]

No, it's not. From PETA's perspective. They are extremely media savvy and if they had asked for all the other things their story would not have gotten the same coverage. It's the formal request for jockey suspension that got them the news. They know it won't happen, but say "jockey suspension" after any big race and news outlets are going to pick it up. Which is exactly what happened.

I have to agree with this. I still love racing, but there are a lot of changes that should be made to the industry. However, if PETA had gone after the industry, they wouldn't have gotten much coverage (if any) in the mainstream media.

However, it still really stinks. They're going after a guy who, from what I saw, was blameless in what happened. He doesn't have big pockets to put out his own PR campaign. Yet he's the one who's getting attacked because it will further PETAs agenda.

[bt]

as much as I detest pita peta's tactic, it may have one positive side affect. The poor man, who I can only guess went from proud and grateful to grief and guilt stricken (not that he did anything wrong, but he probably wished he had done something different) in one stride, now has something else to occupy his mind, a reason to "explain" what really happened. I can only hope it might be somewhat therapeutic for him.

[HECS04]

Evidently PETA is planning a demonstration/protest at the Ky Horse Park tomorrow (Tuesday) protesting the thorobred racing industry. I am sure they have the press all lined up.

Is this for real? If so I guess I will see them tomorrow as I drive past, I will be sure to wave :lol:

[DickHertz]

First time I stopped in this thread...I was hoping it would go away.

PETA is an extreme organization who do some good things, but most of the crap they do is out of line and does nothing to help the cause. Lisa (PR) was on Fox Sports Radio today and looked like a total jackass when they asked her questions that contradicted her statistics. She kept saying "I'll look into that".

[Coral]

I can't bring myself to sign up for their ridiculous forum and support them in any way. I just think it's amusing (and not really in a good way) that most of the people in that forum admit that they have never seen a horse race and they think that somehow they are qualified to make demands about how to improve the sport, it's just silly.

Are there things that need to be improved? Sure, there always are! Could I rattle off a few things that might work? Sure, I'm quite opinionated! However track vets and the like are more experienced and have seen much more than I have and thus are much better equipped to make recommendations.

[Anne FS]

I can't bring myself to sign up for their ridiculous forum and support them in any way. I just think it's amusing (and not really in a good way) that most of the people in that forum admit that they have never seen a horse race and they think that somehow they are qualified to make demands about how to improve the sport, it's just silly.


It's NOT silly anymore, These people that thinking, loving horse and dog people like yourself dismiss as "just silly" picked up dozens of dogs from an animal shelter in VA last year. Could you do that? PETA can. PETA did. They said they'd "rehome" all the dogs. They apparently euthanized the dogs almost immedidately and got caught dumping the bodies in a dumpster. THEY GOT NO PENALTY FOR THIS. NONE. Could you do that? These "just silly" people have a LOT of power, and one of the reasons is that the rest of us never bother to refute them TO THEIR SUPPORTERS, but we just talk amongst ourselves.

[*jumper*]

Peta always has, and always will be a bunch of attention whores. They happen to have animals as their agenda, but the reality is they have done very little of real value. :no:

And have you seen their "children's" page? My word...you would think they were trying to brainwash kids with the info (and some of it graphic!) about animal dissections, testing, etc.

Reading their forum about Eight Belles makes me want to poke my eyes out...they're so ignorant about horses in general. They keep babbling on about "phillies" and how horses born in december are euthanized because of the january 1st age rule. Ummm...maybe I'm the ignorant one, but I've never EVER heard of that, and methinks that PETA is making up stories about racing industry abuses that don't happen.

[*jumper*]

It's NOT silly anymore, These people that thinking, loving horse and dog people like yourself dismiss as "just silly" picked up dozens of dogs from an animal shelter in VA last year. Could you do that? PETA can. PETA did. They said they'd "rehome" all the dogs. They apparently euthanized the dogs almost immedidately and got caught dumping the bodies in a dumpster. THEY GOT NO PENALTY FOR THIS. NONE. Could you do that? These "just silly" people have a LOT of power, and one of the reasons is that the rest of us never bother to refute them TO THEIR SUPPORTERS, but we just talk amongst ourselves.

I also heard that hey went to some dog exposition or show and set the dogs free. Some of the dogs proceeded to run out onto a road, and several were hit. Yeah, they were so not safe in their crates. PETA really saved the day there...:confused:

[Aggie4Bar]

When I was younger, had more time on my hands and less of a life, I used to entertain myself by participating in AR debates. You would be wasting your time to attempt to sway anyone on the PeTA forum. The diehards are brainwashed like you couldn't imagine. If you spent the next year of your life pummeling them with facts, research, or even physical evidence, you'd be lucky to open the eyes of just one person. It's cult-like.

Having said that about the core...
Probably the majority of PeTA's supporters are well-intended, animal welfarists who get suckered in by the propoganda, but aside from sending donations, have no affiliation with or real knowledge of the group. Typically, when they find out just what PeTA/ALF really is, they can't stop supporting fast enough. So in other words, if you want to lessen PeTA's impact, the place to do is in your own community, on other animal forums, at your child's school, letters to the local news editor, etc.

And have you seen their "children's" page? My word...you would think they were trying to brainwash kids with the info (and some of it graphic!) about animal dissections, testing, etc.That's because they are trying to brainwash kids. Trolling around school playgrounds with "your mommy is a murderer" pamplets and "unhappy meals" isn't about education. It's part of the recruitment process.

[Larksmom]

He is not a racing person, and he had this woman on, with her heart bleeding all over. Several times he interupted her rant, 'Jockey should be banned' with Do you KNOW the jockey caused this accident? , um well, no, So you want to ban him without even a hearing?
Then he got her to admit their goal was really to ban racing. He did a very good job.

[Anne FS]

methinks PETA is making up stories about racing industry abuses that don't happen.

Yes, they are and they do. Because the people who know that they are just write them off as silly and ignorant.

Silly and ignorant is extremely dangerous.

As to "why" PETA does this stuff? Has nothing to do with love of animals and all to do with money. There are posts on that board saying "Of course I've heard of the Kentucky Derby but I've never watched a horse race in my life. My friend persuaded me to watch last Saturday and by the end I was crying and horrified. As a result I have joined PETA and hope that my small contribution will put an end to these horrible abuses of animals."

There you have it. The above is a paraphrase of a number of posts on the PETA board: never watched a horse race; know nothing about horses or racing; sent PETA money BECAUSE PETA FAXED A LETTER REQUESTING THE JOCKEY'S SUSPENSION AND GOT THE WIRES SERVICES TO PICK IT UP and is blaring "Eight Belles" all over the place. It's simply a fund-raiser for PETA. And HSUS, Wayne Pacelle must be kicking himself that he didn't send that letter first, and I'm serious. I bet he's really miffed. Look around. Ol' Wayne and HSUS is late to the party but he's being quoted all over this morning to try to rake in some of that glorious cash flowing to PETA.

[sspeight]

So I was watching Sportscenter and they had an interview with Nicole (can't remember her last name), PETA spokeswoman. She was asked three times whether Eight Belles' jockey did anything wrong or anything different that other jockeys didn't do in other races. The first time she brought up that babies are brought up too early, run too fast and too much on hard surfaces, etc. The second time she brought up that it was an industry wide problem. The third time she couldn't come up with an answer.

I was surprised to hear Randy Moss, a horse racing commentator, propose two things. He said that he wanted to ban the use of whips during races. He also talked about banning the use of the -caines from racing. That might be a good idea. He went on to talk about the -caines masking pain so horses will continue to run instead of pulling up because something is sore. He also made note of retiring unsound horses that then pass on their structural unsoundnesses on to future generations. Not all horses have structural unsoundnesses that are genetic, but you know some of them are.

[Anne FS]

You would be wasting your time to attempt to sway anyone on the PeTA forum. The diehards are brainwashed like you couldn't imagine. If you spent the next year of your life pummeling them with facts, research, or even physical evidence, you'd be lucky to open the eyes of just one person. It's cult-like.
[snip]

That's because they are trying to brainwash kids. Trolling around school playgrounds with "your mommy is a murderer" pamplets and "unhappy meals" isn't about education. It's part of the recruitment process.

Aggie4Bar, you've said some important things. Yes, the diehards are cult-like and we won't sway them, but as you say yourself:

Probably the majority of PeTA's supporters are well-intended, animal welfarists who get suckered in by the propoganda, but aside from sending donations,

So let's talk to THOSE people, who ARE open to learning. They're the ones sending the money, they're the ones we need to reach. And we can. Actually, the Eight Belles forum has lots & lots of posts educating and disagreeing with PETA. I'm very pleased. If we keep this up, we'll stop the flow of money to them. Do it, please, for those people, and ESPECIALLY to stop the brainwashing of the kids, because this will truly help the animals, unlike PETA.

Larksmom, so glad to hear of the Neil Cavuto interview. I think the tide is beginning to turn, I think celebrities will start turning away from them, too. HOWEVER, again, note that their sensationalistic tactics WORKED: fax a half-***ed letter asking to suspend the jockey and WHAM, they're everywhere, PETA people on radio, TV, newspapers not even answering questions about the jockey suspension (they don't give a hoot about that; it was their foot in the door) but going right to what they want: banning.

PETA and HSUS will continue to be this effective UNLESS we keep up with the persistent, factual refutations. Also, send emails and letters to each news outlet saying that PETA is a terrorist organization with no credibility and should not EVER be used as a source or rewarded with air time or column inches for ANYTHING.

[Auventera Two]

Well - I listened to PETA on public radio this morning and I wanted to puke. I'll just say that I do NOT support the racing industry in any form or fashion, but this woman was way over the top.

She made blatant statements that ALL (As in - 100%) of thoroughbred racehorses go to slaughter at the end of their career. :eek:

Then she went on to say that EB's jockey should be suspended because the filly finished the race and then she was WALKING AROUND COOLING DOWN when she fell. :eek: So clearly he had whipped her and forced her to run and she was already hurt and he should have felt it.

Well - I had to call in and make the point that NO, the mare was NOT walking around cooling down when she fell. She was still galloping after the finish line! I didn't take on the slaughter thing because they only give you a minute and the woman who called in before me said that most TBs are adopted out to new homes, blah blah blah.

They're making up lies for the sake of lies.

[Anne FS]

Good for you to call in!


They're making up lies for the sake of lies.

They're making up lies for the sake of the money it brings them.

And the publicity, because publicity = $$$$

[Sligodashoe]

I also heard that hey went to some dog exposition or show and set the dogs free. Some of the dogs proceeded to run out onto a road, and several were hit. Yeah, they were so not safe in their crates. PETA really saved the day there...:confused:

While I HATE PETA with all my heart, that's not true: I show dogs and that one is an urban legend. It comes up from time to time on dog show lists, and no one has ever seen it happen. Heard about it yes, in a friend of a friend manner, but actually happen, no.

PETA won't be happy till we take all our domesticated animals and turn them loose back into the wild. I can imagine how long my 14 year old Golden Retriever would last...

[findeight]

As nauseating as it is to keep seeing...some good may come from ESPN shamelessly going for the sensational by rerunning that blimp shot of EB going down all friggin day yesterday.

Monday is my "social night" to happy hour with a group of friends at a local sports bar. Imagine my surprise when comments from this varied group of older professionals ranged from..."Look, she's still running. She wasn't walking at all" to "I don't see any whipping" as the last 1/4 mile was shown with the frontrunners isolated. Obviously they had listened to the stupidity earlier in the day...and totally without a word said from the racing side-the picture told the truth. No abuse.

Now, Glimmer has suggested in another thread that the racing industry needs to work a little harder in the public information department and make somebody knowlegeable available with statistics and current information. I go along with that.

Also don't think anybody within the industry has not had at least some thoughts about age and racing surfaces...but the move to synthetics is underway and this Derby field was hardly overraced, fact most had far fewer starts then you'd see in a field a few years ago.

Just that the racing industry itself needs to generate the discussion...not a knee jerk reaction from a bunch of whiney whack jobs.

[OkLurchers]

I wonder how many people really support PETA--in my neck of the woods they're almost unheard of (lucky us!). I agree that they go too far & seem to be fuled by ignorance more than anything else. It's absolutely ridiculous to blame 8 Belles' jockey--poor man is probably just as devastated as the rest of her "family." Besides, any PETA involvement tends to obfuscate the real issues when there's been an animal related tragedy--as said before, they're really all about publicity for themselves.

[moonriverfarm]

As tragic and horrible as this accident was, I don't believe it is going to change the racing industry one bit. Yes - horses are run too young. Anyone who knows even something aboyt Thoroughbreds and horses in general knonws at what age knees are set, etc. We can pretty much agree that racing and training these fragile youngsters is dangerous, and asking for trouble. Yes, some make it,m win, go on to live long retirements and breeding seasons. Many, many more break down at some point and end up not having such great luck. And I believe it all goes back to the age they are started.

That said, racing is a billion dollar business, period. It isn't NASCAR where they can use restrictor plates and slow things down. Trainers and powners are in it to make money, many times at the expense of the horse. Some do care more than others. But I think it will be a cold day in Hell before things change in the horse's favor. This accident will fade away like all the ones before it, and life will go on for those involved. Sad.