Eight Belles

[AppJumpr08]

Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap.



Did anyone see what happened??????

[genevieveg17]

Noooooooooo.

[AppJumpr08]

And I said as she was going to the post - "I just hope she doesn't break"

Jinxed her.

:(:(:(:(

[spacely]

Crap!!

[bird4416]

I'm sick.:(

[CrzyCorgi]

What Happened!!!!

[J. Turner]

No.... I just yelled "no, oh god." when I saw her down. I don't know how they can ignore it ... them media I mean.

[PlatosGurl]

No, no, no poor sweet baby.

[CrzyCorgi]

She finished 2nd!! Oh God I hope she's alright.....

[jetandmegs4]

Oh god, I hope she's okay.

[monday]

Anybody heard anything? OH, they have the ambulance out now. Was she down on the ground? They didn't keep the TV on her long.. Oh they are interviewing someone now....

[eventer4ever]

I so wanted her to win...

it's heartbreaking and it's killing me. So devastating.

Jingles for her and her people.

[Kenike]

She just collapsed after the race. Took second and just collapsed

[Tiempo]

oh man....oh no..I'm sick and shaking..

[~Freedom~]

She finished second but what happened I don't know. What a brave girl. She is flat out on the ground. She collapsed...a heart attack?

[J. Turner]

I'm sooo tired of these horses dying for us.

Poor Dr. Bramblage. He always has to deliver terrible news.

I don't begrudge them their celebration, but do they (the winner's connections) know? I couldn't celebrate. No way.

[CrzyCorgi]

Of course she's not alright!!! Lord, help her....

[PinkPonies]

Ugghh.... I had to turn it off - couldn't watch that anymore...

[BluewindFarm]

This is why I refuse to watch any more horse races. I watched them destroy 4 horses in one day during Breeder's Cup 89.

[spacely]

Broke BOTH front ankles. Euthanized. RIP Eight Belles. :cry:

[AppJumpr08]

I just want to cry.

When are we going to get JUST ONE horse event that doesn't end in disaster??

:sad::sad:


Broke both front ankles.


RIP sweet baby.

[Bogey2]

what a sad day

[CoolMeadows]

Oh F NO. Both front ankles. Poor baby. RIP Eight Belles.

[CrzyCorgi]

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

[Kenike]

F**K!!!!!
Both front ankles broken and immediate euthanization

[~Freedom~]

Broke both front ankles..they euthanasied her.

[Tiempo]

she's dead

[jetandmegs4]

oh how horrible, both broken ankles. RIP, I can't even stand it.

[arnika]

OMG, she broke both front fetlocks and has been euthanized!

[MissintheSouth]

How did she break BOTH front ankles????????

[texang73]

Media is back on the story, as two ambulances are there for her... But with her lying on the track.. it's not good, the commentator just said as they galloped out, she just collapsed.

The track doc just said she broke BOTH front ankles and it was an immeadiate euthanization... :sadsmile:

RIP Eight Belles...

[arktos19]

Broke both front ankles - euthanized on the track.

[BluewindFarm]

Broke both front ankles!!!!!!!

DAMN THEM ALL TO HELL!!!!!!

[bird4416]

Two broken ankles and euthanized right on the track.:(

[LockeMeadows]

Bilateral ankle fractures.

[onetempies]

Crap.... both front ankles. :cry:

[jewll27]

Im crying

[foxhavenfarm]

Two broken front ankles...she has been euthanized.

[amdfarm]

:( :( RIP Eight Belles. Broke both front ankles. :sadsmile:

[bascher]

Vet just says she broke both ankles and was immediately put down.?

[Mayaty02]

RIP Eight Belles :no:

[Mariequi]

That's it for me. I was so pulling for her. I've had one human and three horse fatalities I've witnessed. I can't stand this. Last race. I can enjoy the Wintergreen babies across the street, but I'll pray they never run...

[BabyGoose]

I fought with myself about watching this race today. But I watched. Now I am so sick. I am done. I can't watch racing anymore. I quit going to live racing years ago and now I'm done completely. The coverage of Eight Belles and her trainer on ESPN earlier was so touching with him riding her and talking to her, telling her she was a sweetheart... I'm done.

[mYpAiNtGrAcE]

RIP poor baby :(

makes me want to cry :'(

[PinkPonies]

I'm done too. Watching the KY Derby has been a tradition for me for 20+ years - started when I was about 6 and started loving horses... Didn't watch it last year, and fought with myself about this year. Never again will I watch a horse race. Done.

Going to the barn to give my OTTB a big hug and some peppermints.

[Tiempo]

I'm done too...it's just too friggin much.

I was planning to put 10 on her to win but wasn't able to make it to the track to place a bet.

I'll be making a donation to rescue in her name and then I'm done with racing.

[ryansgirl]

Godspeed Eight Belles :cry:.

I really hate horse racing (along w/ eventing) - I am so tired of horses trying their hearts out only to end up being put down. All for what?? :cry:

I was sick to my stomach watching them break from the gate... praying that no one got hurt during the race...

RIP little lady... :cry:.

[paintedtrails]

Absolutely heart breaking...so much tragedy this year in horse events.
How could she have broken both ankles?!

[zagafi]

Godspeed, sweet filly.

[cabopony]

What a gutsy girl. Its sad when they break on the track. It will be interesting to see what is said later on.

Run free filly

[J. Turner]

I'm done too. Watching the KY Derby has been a tradition for me for 20+ years - started when I was about 6 and started loving horses... Didn't watch it last year, and fought with myself about this year. Never again will I watch a horse race. Done.

Going to the barn to give my OTTB a big hug and some peppermints.


I love watching these gorgeous horses with hearts of gold. I don't know if I can do it anymore, either.

[spacely]

They just reported that the fractures were compound. So sad. :cry:

[dcm]

Godspeed Eight Belles. You ran a beautiful race. May you race many more over rainbow bridge. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

I just don't understand how this happened. It's not fair. :no: :cry:

[SSFLandon]

A great filly with a great BIG heart to take on those boys! My saddness goes out to her team.

I had her picked to win just from learning about her. I was there last year and I am so glad not be this year.

SO SAD!!
RIP

[BLBGP]

And that's why I don't watch racing live anymore. How awful. Poor filly.

[AHorseSomeDay]

I saw Eight Belles go down. How did she break her ankles? Was it at the end of the race or had she broken them during the race and continued running? Any ideas?

Is that why Big Brown's jockey fell off because he spooked at the filly going down?

Poor Eight Belles. Rest in Peace. :cry: I was upset when I saw her go down. :(

[Kenike]

I can't agree with everyone else. I'll continue to watch.

Right now I just want to lift up her trainer, a man who obviously adored this girl. RIP, big girl. Enjoy the green pastures on the other side of the Bridge.

[jetandmegs4]

I still can't even believe it happened, I was stunned.

[J. Turner]

I fought with myself about watching this race today. But I watched. Now I am so sick. I am done. I can't watch racing anymore. I quit going to live racing years ago and now I'm done completely. The coverage of Eight Belles and her trainer on ESPN earlier was so touching with him riding her and talking to her, telling her she was a sweetheart... I'm done.

His heart must be torn out of his chest. I can't imagine. All I want to do is hold Nigel, my OTTB, if only I could. I hope I can keep doing my part and take care of him forever.

[c_expresso]

So heart wrenching... and just after she tried her heart out amongst the best colts. I bet she waited til the end to let them break, she wanted to try to win first....:cry::cry::cry:

[msrobin]

I too along with my husband was praying that nothing bad would happen and then when you thought all was ok BAM Poor Belle she was my favorite.

I can only imagine what the owners and trainers are going through.

One question is HOW DID SHE BREAK BOTH ANKLES? She ran so strong and showed no sign of weakness or pain even through the finish line.

Anyone have any idea how this happens?

RIP Belle

[GreekDressageQueen]

Did she break the ankles and then fall down or did she break the ankles because she fell down? Anyone see what actually happened? She seemed fine up until the end so it seems strange that both ankles would go at the same time after the race.

RIP. Very sad.

[BuddyRoo]

So...after Rolex and this...what a crappy week to be an equine sports enthusiast. Man.

I was really hoping she'd win. Looks like as they were pulling up, she tripped, took a nose dive and had fractures in both fronts.

At least they were there to euth her immediately.

You know what I'd like to see? 5 YO racing. I wonder if they weren't being worked so hard at 2 and 3 if there would be less of these stress injuries.

[SilverMare]

Does anyone know WHY they broke?

It didn't look like she was weak from the view TV gave me. They're not showing any replays. Maybe someone had a different view?

Heard the injuries were caused by falling - why did she collapse?


Poor thing, RIP Eight Belles. She was a fantastic filly.


Put me in with those who are done watching racing at such a young age. Not just for Eight Belles, but there have been so many tragic injuries and fatalities. It's just not fair to the horses.

[JeanM]

I seem to be on the same wavelength as others here.

I was torn about tuning into the Derby.

I should've listened to the side of me that said DON'T DO IT.

Shades of Ruffian.

I was so rooting for that filly and I was so thrilled to see her almost succeeding.

Then to have that shot of her lying out flat.

ROT IN HADES, greedy owners and trainers.

Just reinforces my feeling that 2 and 3 year old horses are BABIES. They have NO business being pushed like this.



Rolex coverage was advertised as being on tomorrow. I think I will plan on mucking manure instead, as a much more worthy use of my time. Eventing has taken a turn down the road of racing -- it's all about the buck, not about the horse.

[bascher]

I was listening to Jerry Bailey talk about it, he looked at her right before she crossed the finish line and said she didn't seem in any distress at all. Obviously something happened after the race?

I'm just shaking. RIP to a great filly who ran her heart out today.

[3Dogs]

That's it for me too. Watching with my dear 85 year old mother, a horsewoman all her life, and in a nursing home, I said before the race, please please, let there not be any deaths. Please.
We rejoiced Big B winning, only to see Kent come off at a spook and the spook was the filly down. NO more, no more. The end for me.

[Kenike]

I saw Eight Belles go down. How did she break her ankles? Was it at the end of the race or had she broken them during the race and continued running? Any ideas?

Is that why Big Brown's jockey fell off because he spooked at the filly going down?

Poor Eight Belles. Rest in Peace. :cry: I was upset when I saw her go down. :(

Seeing the aerial replay, you can see when both ankles went. One went, she tried to catch herself and the other went. After the race.

I think BB spooked when he turned around and had to walk past her lying on the track. They hadn't come back to the walk, yet, when she fell.

Let's do try to keep in mind that nobody else was hurt. If it had happened in the race or her jockey hadn't already felt something going on, it could've been a lot worse. (not trying to be callous, just honest truth)

[Carol Ames]

Dr. Bramlage said ishe broke both:sadsmile:front ankles andwas put down

[poltroon]

Dammit.

Such a nice, special filly. She finished beautifully. :(

I'm at a loss. I really am.

[CrzyCorgi]

I can't imagine how she broke BOTH front ankles!? Do you guys think she fell due to the broken ankles or broke them in the fall?? Maybe an aneuyerism (sp?) or heart issue that caused her to collapse?? I don't get it, she looked like she finished fine, made it almost to the turn,....... I just don't get it.... And all I can keep thinking is hearing Larry Jones talking to her as he was schooling her...... This is soooooo awful...

~Darci~

[bascher]

I'm still listening to the ESPN radio..they are talking about how she just broke both ankles and didn't have any legs to stand on...I'm crying. I can't even imagine what that poor girl must have been going through.

Just a question...Jerry Bailey just said it occured almost a quarter of a mile after the race was over. what could have caused this?

[Mayaty02]

I saw Eight Belles go down. How did she break her ankles? Was it at the end of the race or had she broken them during the race and continued running? Any ideas?

Is that why Big Brown's jockey fell off because he spooked at the filly going down?

Poor Eight Belles. Rest in Peace. :cry: I was upset when I saw her go down. :(

I think by what I saw it looked like it happened after the race and she just collapsed. They basically must have just snapped. They did say that they thought that was why Big Brown spooked and his jockey came off...the timing was right.

so heartbreaking.

[ybiaw]

You know....I said a prayer before the race started while they were all in the gate waiting for the doors to open. I asked God to watch over the horses and riders and get them across the wire safely. Weird how this happened AFTER the wire while they were galloping out. I should have asked for an extension...

:(

My BF is at the race...I'm waiting to hear an update from him. He texted me when she went down, but just to tell me that he couldn't tell who it was. I think I probably knew who and what it was before he did.

RIP, gorgeous girl. You really ran your heart out.

[LMH]

How many deaths do there have to be before something changes?:cry:

[catknsn]

You know what I'd like to see? 5 YO racing. I wonder if they weren't being worked so hard at 2 and 3 if there would be less of these stress injuries.

I'm with you. I truly believe that the damage done by riding them as yearlings contributes to these breakdowns later down the road. I would at least like to see 2 year old racing stopped.

RIP Eight Belles.

[paintedtrails]

Did anyone else notice in the replays that she turned her head to her right several times? I wonder if something was bothering her at that point....
I was so happy she finished 2nd, was hoping for an upset at the next races...
Like others, watching the Derby has been a tradition my whole life...It is getting hard to want to watch anymore...

[canyonoak]

The trainer of Eight Bells, Larry Jones, won the Oaks yesterday with another of his great fillies. He thought this one could hold her own with the boys--and she did.

The price she paid...I would not be so superficial as to put a price on this kind of heart, courage and soul.

I am sure glad they put her to sleep right then and there, her pain must have been consuming.

But all I have to do is go to www.horsedeathwatch.com
anytime I start thinking this is an isolated instance.

RIP, great filly. I'm going to just know that you are safely over The Bridge, galloping forever on four strong legs that will carry you forever.

[Buffyblue]

I am sick.

[dressagetraks]

OMG!!! I didn't even know. The race was a bit behind post time, and I had to get back to work, so the minute they crossed the line, I switched it off and went back to the office.

No doubt my VCR has it, but I don't think I want to watch.

What a gallant girl. She ran a great race.

[TampaBayEquine]

Oh Eight Belles. What a tough filly. I am sick about it.

[Artful]

How did she do this? I just watched the replay, it looked like she had a clean trip,she seemed to be in good position throughout the race. They showed her galloping out, but not the fall. What happened? (add me to the list of those finding racing increasingly hard to take----and I've followed it for over 35 years)

[BabyGoose]

Not bashing racing in general, there is good and bad in every sport. I just personally can't watch anymore. It seems everytime I watch a race a horse fatally breaks down. Did anyone else see the interview with Eight Belles trainer in ESPN earlier. He was riding her and asked her switch leads, to slow down, to pull up. Called her sweetheart. It was so cool to watch. He must be devastated. I just can't enjoy watching it anymore as I spend the whole race hoping nobody gets hurt, most of the time I don't even know who is winning etc. I am to busy scanning the pack to make sure they all stay on their feet. It is no fun anymore.

[Esprit]

My mom called me to say it was on, I told her I didn't want to watch, she couldn't understand why. Then she sent me a message on my blackberry - Shannon - don't miss it - some lovely horses...my son came in and said come on Mom why aren't you watching it? I explained, I just can't watch it for fear that one will go down. Ever since Barbaro, and the recent events at Rolex have just put me off. I watched as far as them coming out from the barns and when I heard there was only one filly, I said "Okay, I'm going with her and I'll watch"...

Honestly, I'm with the rest of you, this is just too much. She ran so well and strong in the stretch and I was so happy for her, then this.

Godspeed sweet filly. :no:

[Equine Obsession]

Seeing the aerial replay, you can see when both ankles went. One went, she tried to catch herself and the other went. After the race.

I think BB spooked when he turned around and had to walk past her lying on the track. They hadn't come back to the walk, yet, when she fell.

Let's do try to keep in mind that nobody else was hurt. If it had happened in the race or her jockey hadn't already felt something going on, it could've been a lot worse. (not trying to be callous, just honest truth)

How terrible. :cry: My family has been in horse racing for a long time. They're so young and they try with all their heart.

What a filly. RIP Eight Belles.

[Lori]

Unbelievable............BOTH front ankles.......
She was the one I was hoping would win and to place was such thrill...........
Godspeed poor filly......

[On the Farm]

You know what I'd like to see? 5 YO racing. I wonder if they weren't being worked so hard at 2 and 3 if there would be less of these stress injuries.

As I have stated on this BB for the umpteenth time, scientific research indicates that just the opposite is true.

[DLee]

Heartbroken. Again. :cry:

I may write to the editor of the Lexington Herald however, and see if they are planning to put photos of her fall on the front page as they just did of Frodo and Quiet Man.

Godspeed Eight Belles.

[cloudyandcallie]

Didn't you see the xrays of Barbaro's leg??? how many shattered pieces were there and how many screws and bolts were put in??? and it just shattered, no fall , no "misstep". The racing industry breeds horses with legs like that and then says a horse was "injured" or had a "misstep" or whatever. For Christ's sake, when will the American public demand that the racing industry let horses mature, and quit racing for speed on hard surfaces? Ruffian was in 1976 or thereabouts, and there were many horses before she was murdered by the racing industry. Just haul them off to the rendering plant, so they won't have to go to New Holland alive.:eek:

[kellidahorsegirl]

When I watched the replay as closley as possible, she seemed to run really well and then crossed the finish line. About umm 10 strides or so out she just BOBBED...dead lame...then the camera cut out. She musta collapsed shortly after that though...

What a terrible tragedy. She's up running with Barbaro and all the OTHER great racers who gave their hearts to our sport.

[BuddyRoo]

There is evidence that supports work helping build better bone--denser and stronger--this is true.

But moderation is key. When we're talking about legs, don't you think overuse injuries are from just that? Overuse? Perhaps?

And as far as the rest of the horse? The spine doesn't fuse by 2 or 3 or even 4 in most cases.

Why not let these horses mature a bit...do more light riding first?

Look, I am a supporter of equine sports. But I am also a lover of equines. And they are doing what WE ask of them. Perhaps our questions need to be changed. Keep in mind, I just got back from Rolex. I'm frustrated and saddened by the deaths this week.

[SSFLandon]

Not bashing racing in general, there is good and bad in every sport. I just personally can't watch anymore. It seems everytime I watch a race a horse fatally breaks down. Did anyone else see the interview with Eight Belles trainer in ESPN earlier. He was riding her and asked her switch leads, to slow down, to pull up. Called her sweetheart. It was so cool to watch. He must be devastated. I just can't enjoy watching it anymore as I spend the whole race hoping nobody gets hurt, most of the time I don't even know who is winning etc. I am to busy scanning the pack to make sure they all stay on their feet. It is no fun anymore.

I watched it. I was so taken by the way he loved that filly. It made my cry after to see her go down. She was my favorite for the race. Such a sad day. Gosh, last year I was there and watched the tribute to Barbaro, so glad not to be there this year. I will continue to watch racing but, I will always worry. I am a pro in the horse industry and it's always so hard to see one go down. :(

[Mali]

Poor Larry. He goes from winning the Oaks yesterday with Proud Spell, finishing 2nd in the Derby - and now this. What a horrible ride of emotions he must be going thru. I would be seriously ill at this point.

[Sancudo]

I'd be a hypocrite to stop watching racing, since I've had broken legs in pasture accidents, and had to put a horse down for cancer. They are just so fragile.

RIP Belles

[skatepixie]

RIP little girl :cry::no::no::no:

[Kenike]

Callie, I think you've made it plain and clear that you think all of us in the sporthorse industry are cruel murderers. There was nothing wrong with any of these horses legs in terms of being too small or too weak. Even a human being with large, strong bones can have those bones shatter in a misstep off a curb. No comparison.

Please, for the love of all that's holy, leave it alone.

[Carol Ames]

WE love horses don't we? yes,, itcould have happenedi n the pasture, and yet?

[J. Turner]

Big Brown looked off walking away out of the winner's circle and on the turf track. I hope his connections listen to what his body is trying to tell them.

[Marieke]

As I have stated on this BB for the umpteenth time, scientific research indicates that just the opposite is true.


wouldyou mind PM-ing me that research? I know the findings of the University of Wageningen point out the complete opposite in warmbloods. They had 4 groups, took x-rays along the way, and euthenised for autopsies as well. I would like to read that. I do think warmbloods and tb's are way different.

[wineberrywillie]

I'm done.
I hesitated greatly in watching the Derby for obvious reasons. I knew in my heart, it would not be a clean race. I just hope the media will have the decency & respect for Belles & not rebroadcast her accident over & over again, as they did with Barbaro. Being from the SE PA area, I saw the replay more times than necessary.

So then I thought, let's see what is going on at Rolex. 2 horses euthanized & 1 rider critically injured??? WTH? Rider error, horse error, course error, whatever! Given the recent count of human & horse injuries/deaths, I no longer consider either a sport. I don't understand how this is acceptable?

I'm done.

[Sannois]

I can't agree with everyone else. I'll continue to watch.

Right now I just want to lift up her trainer, a man who obviously adored this girl. RIP, big girl. Enjoy the green pastures on the other side of the Bridge.

What a gallant filly, I wanted her to win as well. She looked fine crossing the line, IT was well after the finish, cause Big vrown was being ponied and he spooked at her going down.
Poor lovely filly. My heart goes out to her trainer and owners and jockey! :sadsmile:

[Blacklabs]

RIP Sweet filly,prayers for owner and trainer

[sisu27]

Godspeed Eight Belles :cry:.

I really hate horse racing (along w/ eventing) - I am so tired of horses trying their hearts out only to end up being put down. All for what?? :cry:

I was sick to my stomach watching them break from the gate... praying that no one got hurt during the race...

RIP little lady... :cry:.

Are you F'ing insane? DO NOT compare the race industry to eventing. Are people really this stupid? Just because this was televised it will be a big deal...good. IT HAPPENS IN #'s EVERY DAY. Wake up idiots, it is part of racing. Eventers are not throw away horses like race horses...we don't go threw them like kleenex until we get one that is good. NO COMPARISON. In fact we take their cast-offs and give them a new job and a cushy life. Rant over...Rolex is still pretty fresh in my mind and I think all of us eventers are a little defensive about our sport right now.

Godspeed 8 Belles.

[merrygoround]

Still in tears. For her, for her people, the groom, the exercise rider. For the foals she'll never have. :cry: :cry:

[Esprit]

Big Brown looked off walking away out of the winner's circle and on the turf track. I hope his connections listen to what his body is trying to tell them.

I saw that too. They did say prior to the race leaving the barns, that he has bad feet, quarter cracks etc. and that while that wasn't an issue going into the race, it could be coming out of it. He's already wearing special shoes, I'm sure they will watch him very closely :yes: He's a beautiful horse, and a very deserved winner today...Eight Belles' demise has taken the shine off his win for me, but I wish that fellow the best - he seemed to me to have a very intelligent expression :)

[Arado*TB]

:cry: I watched her on every replay .Not just her but her feet.I didn't see a bad step. The only thing we saw was her stretched out on the track and then the 2 equine ambulances[ made me sick ].The next thing we saw was a statement by Dr. Bramlage[sp]. he didn't say compound. He just said she broke down in both fronts.
I just cannot grasp how she continued to gallop out and just fell. Did anyone see anything before that?Did her jock feel anything?? I just am not getting it. Then again I'm stunned.

RIP beautiful girl:cry:

[Mariequi]

Walked down the lane, beautiful pastures, babies playing, my horse and her girlfriends ran over. How do they always know? Gave many treats and carrots in Eight Belles' honor. She sure deserves to be here. Can't get over her trying as hard as she did and wow, what she did. Nothing else to say.

[findeight]

Back to the race...you know...on replay it almost looks like she hesitates a liitle about a furlong from the finish. I just thought she was tired when she checked a little and put her head up...now my thinking is she did something then and ran on guts, injuring the other.

The blimp shot after the finish sure does NOT look to me like she is moving well, even for an exhausted horse. Before she went down, just didn't look right.

For those that may wonder, she went down at the first turn and the connections of BB did NOT see it or know about it until they got to the winners circle ceremony and I bet most of the dignitaries were clueless. I doubt 90% of the fans there did either, only those in elevated seats on the first turn would have seen it.

And, no, I will not cash the ticket I had on her.

Sad thing is the winner does look Triple Crown capable...more so then any of the recent wannabes.

[ItchyRichie]

a few years ago I really wanted to train racehorses and day after day I'm starting to change my mind.

the glorious moments are great but...
is it really worth it?
does it really matter what horse is the fastest?
in the long run, does it REALLY matter if your horses crosses the wire first on the first saturday in may?

The only reason I can think of to justify horse racing at all is that there are lots of horses who actually seem to like it, it's just that there are many more who don't.

horse racing is just f**ked up. It used to be about stamina and usefulness and now it's just about how much you can juice a horse to MAYBE go 1 1/4 miles.

If I ever do become a trainer, mark my words, I will change this industry!!!!!!!!!! I SWEAR!!!

[Beverley]

I saw that too. They did say prior to the race leaving the barns, that he has bad feet, quarter cracks etc. and that while that wasn't an issue going into the race, it could be coming out of it. He's already wearing special shoes, I'm sure they will watch him very closely :yes: He's a beautiful horse, and a very deserved winner today...Eight Belles' demise has taken the shine off his win for me, but I wish that fellow the best - he seemed to me to have a very intelligent expression :)

Me too- but prior to that, I was somewhat horrified by the way the outrider pulled him up, forcing him sideways- and then when he dumped Desormeaux going back to the finish area he looked a little weird behind.

[DownYonder]

From the track vet:
""She suffered a condylar fracture in her left front, which opened the skin and was contaminated. On the right side, at least one sesamoid was broken. It was a catastrophic injury. It happened on the same stride right in front of the outrider."

I had such a bad feeling about this Derby that I didn't even want to see it. I only watched because my barn owner (dressage barn) has a broodmare by Unbridled's Song that she breeds for the track (has had fillies so far by Afleet Alex and Bluegrass Cat).

[Sannois]

I'm done.
I hesitated greatly in watching the Derby for obvious reasons. I knew in my heart, it would not be a clean race. I just hope the media will have the decency & respect for Belles & not rebroadcast her accident over & over again, as they did with Barbaro. Being from the SE PA area, I saw the replay more times than necessary.

So then I thought, let's see what is going on at Rolex. 2 horses euthanized & 1 rider critically injured??? WTH? Rider error, horse error, course error, whatever! Given the recent count of human & horse injuries/deaths, I no longer consider either a sport. I don't understand how this is acceptable?


I'm done.
ITs the nature of the sport.
They did not broadcast it, cause the cameras were not even on her when she went down. All you saw was a brief shot after Big brown spooked, and they flashed to her on the ground.
Seriously, its very tragic, but I am so tired of all these people saying, OMG I will never watch racing again, I will never watch Eventing again. Fine dont, but spare others the melodrama!
Sorry it just gets old.
Horses break down, and die. it happens more than anyone sees or hears about it. You not watching it is not going to stop it from happening.
Sorry Off soap box! :no:

[DancingAppy]

Eight Belles was my favorite to win, and I was so proud of her when I saw her place second. What an amazing feat for a filly to do.

When I saw her down, I just felt sad and sick. It makes my heart ache that such an athletic and talented filly has lost her life so young.

I won't stop watching horse racing. It is too much of a family tradition. My grandfather owned racehorses and I watch the Derby in his honor. But I know my grandfather would be so sad to know such an amazing filly is gone.

Rest in Peace, Eight Belles, you are truly an inspiring horse.

[harvestmoon]

ITs the nature of the sport.
They did not broadcast it, cause the cameras were not even on her when she went down. All you saw was a brief shot after Big brown spooked, and they flashed to her on the ground.
Seriously, its very tragic, but I am so tired of all these people saying, OMG I will never watch racing again, I will never watch Eventing again. Fine dont, but spare others the melodrama!
Sorry it just gets old.
Horses break down, and die. it happens more than anyone sees or hears about it. You not watching it is not going to stop it from happening.
Sorry Off soap box! :no:

I agree with this. However, it is terribly tragic about Eight Belles. RIP, girl. :(

[BelladonnaLily]

Back to the race...you know...on replay it almost looks like she hesitates a liitle about a furlong from the finish. I just thought she was tired when she checked a little and put her head up...now my thinking is she did something then and ran on guts, injuring the other.




Findeight, i saw the same thing...she put her head up for a moment like she was thinking about pulling up. I wasn't sure if I saw what I thought I saw but I must have...

Very sad. I just feel sick.

[Reds-n-Greys]

Big Brown looked off walking away out of the winner's circle and on the turf track. I hope his connections listen to what his body is trying to tell them.

My non-horsey husband saw it too. Not Quite Right. I hope they go over him with a fine tooth comb.

[Reds-n-Greys]

Me too- but prior to that, I was somewhat horrified by the way the outrider pulled him up, forcing him sideways- and then when he dumped Desormeaux going back to the finish area he looked a little weird behind.

Yeah, taht looked like a breakdown waiting to happen. I was going to start another thread on that subject, asking was that a bit rough, guess I got my answer.

[Carol Ames]

A friend just asked me a question for which I have no answer; Why are the Triple Crown races for three year olds rather than older horses?remember Samuel Riddle thought the Derby distance around two turns was too much to ask of three year olds; and so, Manof War did not enter the Derby

[Tiempo]

And, no, I will not cash the ticket I had on her.



I would cash it and donate it all to breakdown research or TB rescue.

Please don't take this as me telling you what to do, I don't mean it that way.

[regret]

ITs the nature of the sport.
They did not broadcast it, cause the cameras were not even on her when she went down. All you saw was a brief shot after Big brown spooked, and they flashed to her on the ground.
Seriously, its very tragic, but I am so tired of all these people saying, OMG I will never watch racing again, I will never watch Eventing again. Fine dont, but spare others the melodrama!
Sorry it just gets old.
Horses break down, and die. it happens more than anyone sees or hears about it. You not watching it is not going to stop it from happening.
Sorry Off soap box! :no:

I agree with you.

[Arado*TB]

This is from the Thoroughbred Times:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2008/May/03/Eight-Belles-euthanized-after-runner-up-finish-in-Kentucky-Derby.aspx

[Kenike]

Me too- but prior to that, I was somewhat horrified by the way the outrider pulled him up, forcing him sideways- and then when he dumped Desormeaux going back to the finish area he looked a little weird behind.

I think he was pulled up that way simply because the outriders already knew she was down and didn't want to chance anything else happening. I'd not be surprised if we hear he did pop another crack, or something, but I hope it was just that he was still so up from the race with plenty of go still in him that he was just hopping around....but I hate to believe otherwise.

And, yes, I saw that he looked a little funny, too.

[bird4416]

Here is video of the breakdown.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22825103/vp/24445258#24445258

[Beverley]

ITs the nature of the sport.
They did not broadcast it, cause the cameras were not even on her when she went down. All you saw was a brief shot after Big brown spooked, and they flashed to her on the ground.
Seriously, its very tragic, but I am so tired of all these people saying, OMG I will never watch racing again, I will never watch Eventing again. Fine dont, but spare others the melodrama!
Sorry it just gets old.
Horses break down, and die. it happens more than anyone sees or hears about it. You not watching it is not going to stop it from happening.
Sorry Off soap box! :no:

After that first shot, there was a replay of a camera generally on the horses galloping out, and Eight Belles went from fine to down/out of the picture in one stride. Replays of the 15 or so strides after the finish line looked perfectly normal, too. An awful, freak thing. But I am with you, sick and tired of the melodrama. Yes, this filly had a tragic end. But from the time she went down to the time she was dead- a matter of a few minutes, pretty much pain free because of the way shock and adrenaline work in response to injury. She otherwise had a fine life, best of care, and a cool trainer- loved the story they did earlier in the day. Contrast that with all the nameless horses out there everywhere, suffering for weeks or months or years on end from neglect, abuse and starvation. Go scream about THAT, folks- that is real cruelty. Horse racing is not. And neither is eventing, while I'm at it.

[On the Farm]

There is evidence that supports work helping build better bone--denser and stronger--this is true.

But moderation is key. When we're talking about legs, don't you think overuse injuries are from just that? Overuse? Perhaps?

And as far as the rest of the horse? The spine doesn't fuse by 2 or 3 or even 4 in most cases.

Why not let these horses mature a bit...do more light riding first?

Look, I am a supporter of equine sports. But I am also a lover of equines. And they are doing what WE ask of them. Perhaps our questions need to be changed. Keep in mind, I just got back from Rolex. I'm frustrated and saddened by the deaths this week.

Again getting back to the science, light riding will only condition the horse for...light riding, and the equine body becomes less adaptable at later ages. The research performed in the UK indicated that horses which were unraced until five were more inury prone. I wish the answer to all of this was that simple, but it's not.

Not that this was the cause of Eight Belles' injury, but I've always had a concern about the preparation of Churchill's surface on big racing days. Don't know if super's have been changed, but I've never liked when the surface is packed so tight that it's drastically different as to what the horses have been training or racing on.

[Auventera Two]

Oh for the love of god you have got to be kidding me?!?!! ANOTHER ONE?! I am just sick. I watched her break down and felt absolutely nauseous. What in the bloody hell is going ON in this sport?!?

[KCFoxy]

NO MORE horse races for me...this is so incredibly sad!
Poor baby

[bascher]

Here is video of the breakdown.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22825103/vp/24445258#24445258

Oh god...that was just saddening and made me cry.

RIP sweetie.

[Kenike]

I take that back....

She actually looks fine until 2 strides before swapping and falling. It looks like the left went first, and the right when she fell on it.

How horrible am I that I'm jsut studying and studying???

[Tiempo]

ITs the nature of the sport.
They did not broadcast it, cause the cameras were not even on her when she went down. All you saw was a brief shot after Big brown spooked, and they flashed to her on the ground.
Seriously, its very tragic, but I am so tired of all these people saying, OMG I will never watch racing again, I will never watch Eventing again. Fine dont, but spare others the melodrama!
Sorry it just gets old.
Horses break down, and die. it happens more than anyone sees or hears about it. You not watching it is not going to stop it from happening.
Sorry Off soap box! :no:

I'm not stopping because I think I can affect change with my own personal boycott, it's just that fear of what I might witness overrides the joy of the sport for me now.

[ItchyRichie]

This past month I've just been thinking about this kind of stuff in general and honestly...
do horses like this? any of it? jumping, eventing, dressage, racing, showing, being ridden at all? do THEY LIKE THIS?!? is this all cruel? do we have the right to do whatever we want with these animals just because we can?

I'm starting to feel guilty every time I go to ride my horse and I don't know how to justify it, I just do it because I like to. is this really okay?

[skatepixie]

Here is video of the breakdown.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22825103/vp/24445258#24445258

Its like she just ran right into the ground....

[Showpony]

Yes, excersize may be good for babies, but racehorse training is a total overkill, no pun intended. If it did make them stronger why do so many more break down relative to other equestrian sports and general turnout/being a horse?

Nothing will change, too much money involved.

[On the Farm]

wouldyou mind PM-ing me that research? I know the findings of the University of Wageningen point out the complete opposite in warmbloods. They had 4 groups, took x-rays along the way, and euthenised for autopsies as well. I would like to read that. I do think warmbloods and tb's are way different.

Google the Maryland Shin Project or Dr. David Nunnamaker. Someone did a study in Australia and another vet covered the UK. Somewhere in my storage room I have a Horse and Hounds issue detailing the UK coverage. If I get to it this week I'll dig it out.

[Reds-n-Greys]

You know, Findeight was right. She was definitely not right before switching leads and going down.

So, I'd be willing to join in that something happened IN the race and she gutted it out, maybe not even letting Saez know that something was wrong until it was Way too late. Either that, or he just didn't know that he was feeling somehting bad...


First let me say I am no racing expert, so please do not flame me and maybe what I thought I saw I didn't see, just help me understand. While watching the replay before the last turn turn it seems al the others were galloping in a longer frame, Eight Belles seemd to be in a shorter frame with her head up higher? Was that just her way of going, or could she have been trying to keep weight off her front legs? Just wondering. thanks

Godspeed, Eight Belles

[BLBGP]

ITs the nature of the sport.
They did not broadcast it, cause the cameras were not even on her when she went down. All you saw was a brief shot after Big brown spooked, and they flashed to her on the ground.
Seriously, its very tragic, but I am so tired of all these people saying, OMG I will never watch racing again, I will never watch Eventing again. Fine dont, but spare others the melodrama!
Sorry it just gets old.
Horses break down, and die. it happens more than anyone sees or hears about it. You not watching it is not going to stop it from happening.
Sorry Off soap box! :no:

I like this argument even less than "horses die all the time doing other stuff" justification. How can you just accept that you will watch horses die a percentage of the time you go to the track or turn on the TV? Even with appropriate editing, a horse still died. It's like people have given up and simply accepted breakdowns as a necessary evil (and given them a nice, inanimate name, too).

[LMH]

findeight, tiempo beat me to the idea...it would be SO kind to cash the ticket and donate the money to CANTER or someplace.

With the economy the TBs are going to be in tough times this year.

Again, I am not trying to direct you:no: It seems like the smallest dot of positive that could happen in something so sad.

I just watched the video...:cry:

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I am so, so sorry. I was on the ferry crossing from CT to LI, and they had the pre race stories on...mentioning her as the only filly. We disembarked, and then on the news, in the car, we'd heard she went down.

So, so sorry. I hate to see any of them go.

[harvestmoon]

This past month I've just been thinking about this kind of stuff in general and honestly...
do horses like this? any of it? jumping, eventing, dressage, racing, showing, being ridden at all? do THEY LIKE THIS?!? is this all cruel? do we have the right to do whatever we want with these animals just because we can?

I'm starting to feel guilty every time I go to ride my horse and I don't know how to justify it, I just do it because I like to. is this really okay?

You're right. We should all stop riding immediately. Let's set them loose and all join PETA.

:dead:

[LMH]

I feel like many others here-I was letting my horses out and my head was screaming there HAS to be a way to do something-then I stop and realize things will go on, just like the did after Barbaro.

It is heart wrenching.

It is so...pointless.

Yes horses die...but a broken leg in a field is not even in the same universe as what happens to these horses.

I also went to the link for the Race Horse Death Watch and now I am ill on top of sick.

[findeight]

Please...nothing new. Polyturf/synthetic may or may not have helped here and I'd bet it would have helped with the luckier Chelokee yesterday. Horses are fragile and, unless you just want watch them eat in the field, some are going to get hurt. Come to think of it, they break down in pastures too.

At least racing is open and honest. We knew as soon as anybody else did. No pretenses. And she did not suffer...euthed immediatly...fact I think it was done before the camera picked up on it...or she was sedated heavily because she sure looked still laying there. She was bred to run, made a little history and died trying to win against what may be a superstar.

No excuses either, mind you. Sucks and has to be looked at. The Derby has been lucky. This is the first one in a long time and, IIRC, the first right on the track in a really long time.

My heart goes out to the Jones family who went from the top to the absolute bottom in 24 hours with 2 great fillies. We need to look at ALL horse sports and do more to protect them. We need to never accept anything as "it happens". In any discipline. Anywhere.

[slc2]

Actually there are numbers that suggest that synthetic surfaces cut down catastrophic breakdowns, so that suggests these breakdowns don't really have to be such a frequent part of the sport. California, I read somewhere, is requiring all tracks to install synthetic surfaces by some year.

One track put in synthetic surface and cut down big breakdowns from 24 during one period to 2 in the same period the following year after the synthetic surface went in. These surfaces can't be compared to surfaces for human athletes. THere are questions about whether synthetic surfaces might contribute to smaller injuries or wear and tear (cumulative) type of use injuries. THe information isn't really available on that , but even there with human athletic surfaces, the surfaces have improved alot and their warmups and footware have changed to be more compatible with the suface.

But this video is so odd. This horse doesn't appear to break down and take a few awkward steps at all, it appears to just fall. Maybe it's the angle or that the video is so fuzzy that I can't really see the horse's legs clearly. But it looked a lot more like the horse weakenened and began to labor....WITHOUT taking any bad steps, that it fell rather than broke down, and the injuries due to the fall. I have to see a better quality video to be sure, I'm not sure. It looked odd.

[LMH]

We need to look at all horse sports and do more to protect them. We need to never accept anything as "it happens". In any discipline. Anywhere.

I agree but the million dollar question is HOW.

I will say this, if something isn't done by someone at SOME point, there will be someone trying to do something and it may just be PETA and it may very well touch everyone of us.

[Mayaty02]

I'm not stopping because I think I can affect change with my own personal boycott, it's just that fear of what I might witness overrides the joy of the sport for me now.

absolutely DITTO. I think we're all allowed to vent our frustrations and sadness and we certainly have the right to stop watching something that only brings us sadness and stress. I don't expect the racing community or the eventing community to care if I watch or not, I am just tired of seeing these events on the edge of my seat hoping that nothing bad happens and then of course it does.

[EquineLVR]

Just sickening... I cried my eyes out for her.. what a gallant and brave girl..

RIP Belles.

[Twinkletozzz]

When I saw her lying there on the track I just broke into tears. It broke my heart. Such a game filly -- she didn't deserve this. I hope something good comes from this and Barbaro and all the others lost on the track. My heart goes out to her owners, trainer, jockey. What a tragic tragic loss!

[Kenike]

I'm no expert, either. Watching the clips of the race, what it looks like *to me* is that her jockey was actually trying to pull her away from the inside horse, so she shortened, raised, and turned her head/neck to the right. Once they were clear you can see she straightened right back out and was all business.
It'd be interesting to hear what the jock has to say....when he's ready (if ever), of course.

[Maude]

That's it for me. No more. She trained for them. She ran her heart out for them. She beat 18 horses for them. She died for them. A heart that big deserved better. I will never watch a race again until the horse's well-being comes first. Period. It doesn't really matter "what happened". She's dead and she deserved better!

[carol_okc]

Scientific research bedamned... what we need is statistical research. How many 2 year olds who make it to the track break down relative to the total? how many 3 year olds? 4 year olds? There's probably no way to track the number that enter race training and break down before starting, but we could at least compile that much data. Even if it's a case of a DNF, without a definition of cause or whether the DNF resulted in the loss of the horse, it would help demonstrate the case either for or against pushing these young horses beyond their structural capacity.

How many of these horses are pushed beyond their youth via nutritional and/or chemical means? Granted, there's no way to analyze that, but it's a serious consideration relative to the structural enhancement supposedly resulting from controlled stress/exercise.

How much or little financial margin is there to take a 'bye' and push the two year old races to three, the three year old to four? It's another year of expense without possibility of winnings, so I'm sure the industry wouldn't welcome such an idea... and since most of the industry is driven by something other than love of the horses, even were it economically feasible it doubtless wouldn't fly.

But at my advanced age, it's harder and harder to stomach the callous disregard for these young horses and their open knees in the interest of a big pari-mutual handle.

[CrzyCorgi]

I can diffently see her take a misstep/bobble on the left right before switching leads, and I agree with someone's earlier post that the left went first and then the right in the fall. I had posted earlier asking if maybe the broken ankles were a result of the fall and not the other way around, but now that I've seen it, I am convinced the first ankle broke then the stumble and the 2nd ankle went. What a tragedy.....

[slc2]

I know every time I watch a race that a horse could die. They are going fast, it's usually a natural surface with inconsistencies.

[Tiempo]

But this video is so odd. This horse doesn't appear to break down and take a few awkward steps at all, it appears to just fall. Maybe it's the angle or that the video is so fuzzy that I can't really see the horse's legs clearly. But it looked a lot more like the horse weakenened and began to labor....WITHOUT taking any bad steps, that it fell rather than broke down, and the injuries due to the fall. I have to see a better quality video to be sure, I'm not sure. It looked odd.

My husband has been saying excactly the same thing.

[On the Farm]

Yes, excersize may be good for babies, but racehorse training is a total overkill, no pun intended. If it did make them stronger why do so many more break down relative to other equestrian sports and general turnout/being a horse?

Nothing will change, too much money involved.

Racing is the hardest of tests, no doubt about it, however in my own experience, we've lost one horse to a catastrophic breakdown in twelve years (and like Eight Belles, he broke down after the wire.) I compare that to the hunter/jumper farm where I was previously employed (nice folks who have received accolades on this site, but are very anti-racing) who euthanzied three horses (the eldest about seven) with navicular problems caused by the stress of jumping. That was in just the first year after I left. I guess I view such comparisons in a different context.

[findeight]

Yeah...to me she looked odd from about an 8th of a mile from the finish when she sort of checked then seemed to put her head up. Nothing drastic but you can see a change-I just thought she was tired and backing up. The blimp shot showing the breakdown does not show me an easy moving horse. Even exhausted I just think something went amiss earlier and she went on with sheer heart until something else went and then the other leg as well. Wouldn't be the first.

Polyturf is not the only answer and they have had some trouble in heat-think it gets too hard. But it is a step in the right direction. Not sure it would have helped here but it sure might have helped Chelokee yesterday with the dreaded mistep.

[mangroom]

I am sure there is actual video of her braking down. But is hard to imagine what took place in the track to cause her to brake both ancles. In my experience this kind of injuries happend when the jockey pulls to hard on the reins and the horse actually responds and halts like a western horse would.
If that is the case the jockey needs to be hold accountable.

[VirginiaBred]

I'm heart broken for the filly, and all connected to her, and all of us who were pulling for her.

Run like the wind, Eight Belles. :(

[ItchyRichie]

You're right. We should all stop riding immediately. Let's set them loose and all join PETA.

:dead:

I didn't SAY that did I? I have just been unable to justify riding horses recently. This thought has just been looming over me for the last few months, especially recently since I took my horse on a trail ride and used a bit that ended up (accidentally on my part) cutting his mouth. Is it fair to him that he gets his mouth cut up because we thought a sharpening bit would be okay when really it wasn't? It seems simple to you, care to explain to me then?? Please, TRY and step out of the whole mainstream, go-with-the-flow, "it's natural", THEY LIKE IT!, and everybody does it ideas. I'm asking honestly.

Do horses like this? Watch them in the paddock before races, many horses look scared and nervous. Watch them get into the gate, the skid away from it and rear and freak out on some ocassions.

I don't know what I think anymore, is it really fair to ride horses who obviously hate it? I think racing is fun for horses like Curlin, Big Brown, and Pepper's Pride but what about the rest?

[farmgirl88]

RIP Eight Belles. What a beautiful filly and courageous filly she was. I am heartsick and was balling my eyes out. My condolences to her connections. I too have been an avid fan of racing since my very young years and that love of racing led me to purchase a horse off the track 3 weeks ago. I too am done watching racing. The death of a horse isnt worth the it. I went out and gave a big hug to Storm Gulch this evening :)

[I'm EBO]

My former vet was a racehorse breeding farm vet before he came to the clinic I use. I asked him whether synthetic surfaces would help avoid catastrophic injuries and he said that they would UNTIL the horses started being trained on them as well as raced on them. His rationale was/is that the dirt tracks did toughen up their legs while training. (I hate it that he moved to South Dakota; he was the best.)

[TBCollector]

I think you mean 1990, and it was 3 horses.

[farmgirl88]

regardless-it was 3 too many

[harvestmoon]

I didn't SAY that did I? I have just been unable to justify riding horses recently. This thought has just been looming over me for the last few months, especially recently since I took my horse on a trail ride and used a bit that ended up (accidentally on my part) cutting his mouth. Is it fair to him that he gets his mouth cut up because we thought a sharpening bit would be okay when really it wasn't? It seems simple to you, care to explain to me then?? Please, TRY and step out of the whole mainstream, go-with-the-flow, "it's natural", THEY LIKE IT!, and everybody does it ideas. I'm asking honestly.

Do horses like this? Watch them in the paddock before races, many horses look scared and nervous. Watch them get into the gate, the skid away from it and rear and freak out on some ocassions.

I don't know what I think anymore, is it really fair to ride horses who obviously hate it? I think racing is fun for horses like Curlin, Big Brown, and Pepper's Pride but what about the rest?

This was my most recent attempt at justifying horse back riding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TeWzgy50s0

I apologize, I shouldn't have been snarky. I think we're all just a bit hot right now.

But where do you get the idea that Eight Belles hated racing? She seemed to like it, actually. She fought for second. In the clip that ESPN showed of Larry working her, she didn't want to stop.

I don't have solid answers to your questions. But, in my eyes, I think many do enjoy it. My horse seems to enjoy himself when I ride him. But, obviously, there are going to be a few who don't, and that may have something to do with the way they are treated.

[LaurieB]

How many deaths do there have to be before something changes?:cry:

The death of Eight Belles was heart wrenching. To see her give her all and then break down after the wire was like a punch in the gut. But, unlike many of you...I don't blame horse racing for what happened.

Horses are beautiful, willful, fragile, animals. And sometimes, despite everyone's best efforts, things simply go wrong. Last week, I saw two horses lose their lives at Rolex. Last year, I saw a young, healthy mare lie down to roll in a perfect pasture and break her pelvis when she went to stand up. My 4YO race filly is currently on stall rest with a soft tissue injury. Despite the fact that her pastern hurts, she doesn't want to stand in a stall. She wants to run--just like Eight Belles wanted to run. A jockey can't create a performance like the one we saw, the filly herself had to want to race like the wind--and she clearly did.

The only way we can keep our horses safe is if we put them in padded stalls 24/7, and even then they'd probably find something to get hung up on. What happened to Eight Belles is a terrible, terrible shame but condemning racing isn't the answer.

[Tucked_Away]

I didn't like her action behind in the walking ring. But I don't typically have a great eye for soundness...I figured I was seeing things.

A buddy of mine linked this video of her workout last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RHB46v5s7k

Should a horse moving this way have been asked to race?

[J.D.]

big horses should be deferred to late. muscal mass and BONE DENSITY.


I am sick!

I see it in all disiplines; big babies mean to some people big actions.

[farmgirl88]

thought i'd share some photos of Eight Belles. RIP girl!

http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0

http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=15

http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=93&pos=0

http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=93&pos=2

http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=93&pos=3

http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=93&pos=4

[Paragon]

After that first shot, there was a replay of a camera generally on the horses galloping out, and Eight Belles went from fine to down/out of the picture in one stride. Replays of the 15 or so strides after the finish line looked perfectly normal, too. An awful, freak thing. But I am with you, sick and tired of the melodrama. Yes, this filly had a tragic end. But from the time she went down to the time she was dead- a matter of a few minutes, pretty much pain free because of the way shock and adrenaline work in response to injury. She otherwise had a fine life, best of care, and a cool trainer- loved the story they did earlier in the day. Contrast that with all the nameless horses out there everywhere, suffering for weeks or months or years on end from neglect, abuse and starvation. Go scream about THAT, folks- that is real cruelty. Horse racing is not. And neither is eventing, while I'm at it.

I think I like this post. Thanks, Beverley.

Tragic, heartbreaking... but the reminder that she likely suffered very little is a good one. We love these animals, all of us.

[farmgirl88]

and a few more- she was very much obviously LOVED-

http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=120&pos=21

http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=120&pos=23

http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=120&pos=24

[ptownevt]

As I have stated on this BB for the umpteenth time, scientific research indicates that just the opposite is true.

This kind of exercise? For a 17 hand 3 year old? If working 2 and 3 year olds like this is so good for them and makes them so much stronger, then why don't other disciplines copy the way racehorses are raised and trained just for the physical benefit of it?

I know that I have no credibility whatsoever, but I don't think an injury like this is much of a mystery given that the horse was 3 years old, 17 hands, and had taken something like 14 tons of pressure on her leading foreleg with every stride. It was just not in her heart to pull back a bit or take it easy. She quite literally gave it all she had and then some.

Pam

[wineberrywillie]

ITs the nature of the sport.
They did not broadcast it, cause the cameras were not even on her when she went down. All you saw was a brief shot after Big brown spooked, and they flashed to her on the ground.
Seriously, its very tragic, but I am so tired of all these people saying, OMG I will never watch racing again, I will never watch Eventing again. Fine dont, but spare others the melodrama!
Sorry it just gets old.
Horses break down, and die. it happens more than anyone sees or hears about it. You not watching it is not going to stop it from happening.
Sorry Off soap box! :no:



I'm not putting either sport down but I question the justification & "it's the nature of the sport" no longer is a valid response. It doesn't mean I'm ready to join PETA & ban racing. I have just chosen to no longer witness the sport. I did the same with rugby when I saw my nephew's ear bitten off. Sorry, but I'm getting old & I don't find accidents & death entertaining.

No matter what a person views are, as an open forum, comments from posters should be respected.

[LMH]

Hey, I grew up in a family that LOVES horses racing and has owned several race horses over the years.

The Kentucky Derby will always remind me of my dad, now 83yo.

BUT to compare racing 3yo to horses rolling and breaking something is not quite the same.

Certainly horses are fragile...but certain risks CAN be eliminated or reduced.

There is a little wiggle room between racing them young and keeping them in padded stalls.

[MaresNest]

is this all cruel? do we have the right to do whatever we want with these animals just because we can?


It all has the potential to be cruel, in my opinion. I think the way to make it not cruel is, first, to ask horses to only do jobs that, on the whole, they enjoy; and, secondly, to make sure they are fit to do their jobs and given every possible aid to safety and well being.

For example, I think some horses want to jump. They should be allowed to jump. Some horses want to trail ride. They should be allowed to do it. Horses will tell you what they enjoy if you let them. It doesn't mean that they're going to enjoy every single second of their job, but they should enjoy it overall. They should be eager to go to work. If they aren't, then they are in the wrong career. (And, frankly, I see nothing wrong with some horses having the career of Lawnmower, though I think that most horses are actually happier having a bit of 'work' to do.)

Regarding safety, horses should not be overworked. They need excellent nutrition, equipment, and veterinary care. Jumps should fall apart if the horses hit them. And, in my opinion, we need to rethink whether it is really okay to work horses so close to their 'operational limits' as we do in racing and upper level eventing. Perhaps there are failsafes that could be put in place to prevent these kinds of tragic accidents. Of course, I think that there will always be crazy freak accidents (horses can, after all, break down in the pasture), but it seems to me that racehorse breakdowns and rotational falls in eventing should be preventable in almost all cases. And, frankly, if they're not, then I believe that the sports are too intense. We are responsible for the well being of our horses, and we need to either make sport safe for them, or stop asking them to participate. Period.

Unfortunately, when horses become a big money game, sometimes people get too invested in the competition, and the horse takes a backseat. I don't know if that's what happened in this case or in the cases at Rolex or not. I don't have any information at all about the people involved in those cases, and it's possible that they are completely innocent of this. But I do think it happens sometimes.



You're right. We should all stop riding immediately. Let's set them loose and all join PETA.

:dead:

Hyperbole is unhelpful.

[vineyridge]

What a gallant filly, I wanted her to win as well. She looked fine crossing the line, IT was well after the finish, cause Big vrown was being ponied and he spooked at her going down.
Poor lovely filly. My heart goes out to her trainer and owners and jockey! :sadsmile:

I'll keep watching racing, but will curse the breeders under my breath every time something like this happens. If they would all breed as much for soundness as speed and stop breeding horses that are too big for their legs (at any age) from known unsound lines, maybe racing wouldn't be such a dying sport.

Big Brown has really bad feet; everyone knows that. But he'll make the breeding shed with a huge stud fee. And breeders will use him despite his feet. :(

Edited to add: I just checked her pedigree, and she was pretty much born to break down. She's 4sx4dx4d RAN--two to Mr. P, and one to Exclusive Native. That's just too much RAN too close--and the breeder should never have put that mare to Unbridled's Song.

[ItchyRichie]

I apologize, I shouldn't have been snarky. I think we're all just a bit hot right now.

But where do you get the idea that Eight Belles hated racing? She seemed to like it, actually. She fought for second. In the clip that ESPN showed of Larry working her, she didn't want to stop.

I don't have solid answers to your questions. But, in my eyes, I think many do enjoy it. My horse seems to enjoy himself when I ride him. But, obviously, there are going to be a few who don't, and that may have something to do with the way they are treated.

I don't think eight belles hated racing, I actually had her in my little list with big brown, curlin, and pepper's pride while I was typing it but felt like I had to add a little description about it and then decided it was grammatically awkward.

I think that a lot of horses like it but I just think there are so many that legitimately don't. Most of the horses who like it would probably still be happy horses if they never knew the world of riding horses anyway IMO.

I mean, when I ride my horse in our outdoor ring, he SOO badly wants to just RUNRUNRUN and I think to myself "is it because he was a racehorse and that's what he was trained to do or is it because he really just enjoys running?" In the case of option 2, is it fair that if he just legitimately loves to run that I stop him because I want him to jump around a little course which ultimately has no point other then my own entertainment?

[Oakstable]

How horribly sad.

How long does it take for the equine ambulance to get to a horse that goes down? Do they do digital radiographs immediately to assess the damage?

RIP brave filly.

[Tiempo]

How horribly sad.

How long does it take for the equine ambulance to get to a horse that goes down? Do they do digital radiographs immediately to assess the damage?

RIP brave filly.

There was no need for rads, open fracture.

[Twomanydawgs]

The filly was 17 hands with long sloping pasterns...it was bound to happen...horses that big should be held back to mature.

[LGW]

FarmGirl88,

Thank you so much for posting the pictures of Eight Belles.

[bauhaus]

I don't think there's any doubt that lots of horses love whatever it is that they do. As they were walking out, seeing some of them busting out of their skin ready to go, seeing Big Brown pull up (at least initially) looking like he barely broke a sweat and like he could go run another derby, all I was thinking about was the fact that at least the ones I saw were happy to do their jobs. On a personal level, I've had a couple of dressage horses who were round and supple and through every minute of their lives with or without a rider! I've had one who clearly loved to jump - I don't really jump but if I ever aimed her in the general direction of a jump and let her get the idea she was going to jump it, I had better hang on tight b/c there was no stopping her and she'd likely throw in a buck for joy afterwards.

But, the question isn't really do they "like" it. They like people and they like being loved and taken care of, and they're usually pretty happy to do whatever it is we ask them to. The question is, is it right to knowingly put them in potentially dangerous situations like racing, cross country, or even schooling dressage in bad footing or on a day when the heat index is dangerously high, etc. They don't get to choose to be in these situations, and they comply because they trust us. It is not even remotely the same as a young horse breaking a leg in the pasture or something like that, and I think those who try to make that comparison know it and they just don't want to face the fact that it might not be right.

I don't have any answers, other than to say that I'm one of the ones who doesn't plan to watch anymore. (Racing or eventing, for that matter).

[imissvixen]

Horse racing isn't cruel nor is eventing but there are people who race horses and people who event horses that do cruel things knowingly or not.

God speed Eight Belles.

[J.D.]

LMH...
Certainly horses are fragile...but certain risks CAN be eliminated or reduced.

There is a little wiggle room between racing them young and keeping them in padded stalls



"Big Babies need a lot of hard ground turnout", Tom Ivers.

[MaresNest]

I don't think there's any doubt that lots of horses love whatever it is that they do. As they were walking out, seeing some of them busting out of their skin ready to go, seeing Big Brown pull up (at least initially) looking like he barely broke a sweat and like he could go run another derby, all I was thinking about was the fact that at least the ones I saw were happy to do their jobs. On a personal level, I've had a couple of dressage horses who were round and supple and through every minute of their lives with or without a rider! I've had one who clearly loved to jump - I don't really jump but if I ever aimed her in the general direction of a jump and let her get the idea she was going to jump it, I had better hang on tight b/c there was no stopping her and she'd likely throw in a buck for joy afterwards.

But, the question isn't really do they "like" it. They like people and they like being loved and taken care of, and they're usually pretty happy to do whatever it is we ask them to. The question is, is it right to knowingly put them in potentially dangerous situations like racing, cross country, or even schooling dressage in bad footing or on a day when the heat index is dangerously high, etc. They don't get to choose to be in these situations, and they comply because they trust us. It is not even remotely the same as a young horse breaking a leg in the pasture or something like that, and I think those who try to make that comparison know it and they just don't want to face the fact that it might not be right.

I don't have any answers, other than to say that I'm one of the ones who doesn't plan to watch anymore. (Racing or eventing, for that matter).

Really excellent, thoughtful post, bauhaus.

[Tiempo]

Really excellent, thoughtful post, bauhaus.

Ditto, very good.

[Sing Mia Song]

A friend of mine (who is a trainer and actually had a winner at Churchill on Thursday) saw Eight Belles break down right in front of her. She said the filly was galloping out fine and just fell like a ton of bricks, then immediately tried to get up but both ankles were broken. I think it's impossible to determine conclusively whether the broken ankles cause the fall or vice versa, but I'd bet the former.

On the replay, I don't really see anything other than a tired horse just prior to the collapse. Both she and Big Brown accelerated from the 3/16ths pole pretty dramatically.

Very freaky, and a terrible shame. However, I have to say that I find it terribly rude for people who are not involved with racing and only pay attention to the televised races to come here with such harsh words. There are numerous trainers, riders, owners who frequent this racing forum and care very deeply about their horses and their sport. They strive every day to make sure their horses are happy and comfortable. To damn the entire sport with sweeping generalizations is naive at best.

[pony4me]

I don't know if horses like racing, or not, or if they like jumping, or eventing, or any other discipline. The problem is that we don't have the ability to nurse them through a catastrophic breakdown, so euthanization is the only option. Until these all-to-frequent injuries are survivable for the horse, I won't be watching racing.

[BelladonnaLily]

Anyone see where some jerk put on Eight Belles pedigree on http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/eight+belles that she broke both ankles in the STRETCH and then continued running on broken ankles to finish second?

I hate it when people just put information out there and don't know what they're talking about. Something COULD have happened before the end of the race, but at this point no one knows and certainly not some bozo on Allbreedpedigree.com.

[Larksmom]

but I hate seeing two year olds run ON DERBY DAY!!! :mad: I do not think they should run before Saratoga or even later, but I do not know enough about what goes into it to be quilified to speak. However since this is an OPINION forum, my flame suit is zipped.
2 year olds break down all the time. What becomes of them? They are sent to the breeding shed, because they are fast. It would be nice if they ran 5 year olds, but it simply isn't practical. Does anyone else out there remember the Canadian horse, I think it was Izvestia, won the Canadian Triple Crown, and his owners wanted to run him as a four year old? I think he broke a leg in the starting gate. :sigh: He was brilliant. [this is from memory. If I need correcting, please do]
We do not live in a nerf world. It is heartbreaking when things like this happen, but they do. I will not stop watching racing, though, and I won't stop watching eventing. I always pray that the best horse will win, and that they all will finish on four legs. Sadly, all prayers are not answered in the way we would like.
Godspeed Eight Belles
there was a mini paen to her on HRTV tonight.

[Kenike]

Thanks to a fellow board member who posted this on another board. Beware, the picture is graphic:
http://www.comcast.net/sports/articles/general/2008/05/03/RAC.Kentucky.Derby.Eight.Belles/

[Arado*TB]

Could someone please explain "RAN" to me. It was reffered to her lineage.
Thanks.

[Cherry]

Poor Eight Belles.... :cry: I had to go out to buy my own TB some supplies so I missed the race--I'm glad now that I did.

My husband had to work tonight--he's the one who "plays the ponies". Before he left for work he said if he had an extra money he'd plunk it down on Eight Belles--he really liked her. I don't know how I'm going to break it to him.... :cry:

Years ago there was a book published "Race Horses At Risk" by Lennart Krook and George Maylin. Their feeling was that overnutrition and the use of drugs are part of what contributes to breakdowns. I've never read the book--I'd like to if I could come up with the money to buy it. Here's the link from Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Race-Horses-Risk-Overnutrition-Breakdowns/dp/0962186805/ref=sr_1_35?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209860474&sr=1-35 . I would be open to their ideas.... ;) It makes sense to me, having not even read the book yet.

I believe the Maryland Shin Splint Study stated that the horse really needs to train on the surface they will be racing on. You train over the surface at a slow rate of speed and ask for speed incrementally over the course of days so the horse's legs can adjust to the density of the ground.... I think this may be why Smarty Jones' ankles and legs were sore near the end--just not enough time spent training on the surface on which he would be running.... :uhoh:

As for whether TBs love to race or not.... My mare raced a grand total of two times before her trainer figured out racing was not her "thing".... When I found her she was being boarded at a barn where there was another TB mare and the two of them would go out to pasture together. I personally witnessed my mare to be going up to the other mare and tapping her on the neck to challenge her to a race! :eek: The two of them would tear off and do laps around this huge pasture.... :yes: :lol: I'm guessing it's in a TB's blood--they just have a hard time sitting still.... :yes:

I don't understand why people think it's normal and acceptable for these horses to die.... And for what??? So we humans (who have a brain and are supposed to be able to think) can jump up and down for a couple of minutes and have a good time knowing (all the time) that an animal could be giving up its life for that??? Hardly seems like a fair trade off to me....

How many of you would go out and saddle up your own two year olds and race them like this??? And yet, because the horse is a TB it's thought to be perfectly acceptable???? Sorry..... There has to be a better way..... To paraphrase Bob Dylan, "How many deaths will it take 'til we know that too many horses have died?". Until people start raising their voices it will continue unabated--speak up!!!!!!

[Kenike]

Raise A Native (R A N)

[shawneeAcres]

First I'd like to say this about "what happened". I think, very likely there are two possible scenarios which led to breakdown of this fabulous filly. The first is tiring. The filly ran a hard race, and obviosuly in the stretch she was tiring. When any animal tires, the support from the muscles, ligaments and tendons begins to give way, the animal can then take a misstep, which can lead to injury. How many times do you see a human runner tire and sprain or even break an ankle becuase their legs were jsut giving out from the exhaustion. I feel that is the most likely reason for this fillies breakdown., Second is that possiby she had a very smal hairline fracture that during the race weakened and then gave way at the end of the race. Noone will ever know for sure, but these are the two most likely causes of her broken ankles.

Secondly, all of you that want to stop watching that is fine. I too did not like what happened, it saddened and sickened us to see that filly lying there, yet she was swiftly attended to, diagnosed and euthanized. One thing racing has over ALL other equine sports is absolutely the best and fastest veterinary care available. It was IMMEDIATE that they attended to her. As someone else said a far better fate than what many ex-racers face! I do not understand the mentality that becuase a horse breaks down in racing,e venting or any other horse sport that we should cease that sport. If that DOES occur then there is not going to be a logical reason for horses to remain in our country, they aren't used for work, except in very limited places, and they aren't used for meat. They really are not companion animals like dogs or cats, so then what reason to feed, house and care for such a very large and expensive creature??? they exist SOLELY for sport, period. Our responsibility is to do our BEST to properly prepare and condition them, ride them, train them and compete them as fairly as we can. Accidents ARE going to happen, and the best we can do is swiftly attend to that animal and make the humane decision to euthanize when needed. And then to ELARN from the incident and try and improve things, but NOT to bash the sport altogether for one incident. It happens, and guess what, so do car wrecks and airline catastrophes. The hrose doesn't have a say in what he is used for, but if he wasn't usd for sport, he wouldn't exist in our culture during this day and age.

[Kenike]

When any animal tires, the support from the muscles, ligaments and tendons begins to give way, the animal can then take a misstep, which can lead to injury. How many times do you see a human runner tire and sprain or even break an ankle becuase their legs were jsut giving out from the exhaustion.


Exactly the point I was trying to make to cloudyandcallie earlier. I don't think it has as much to do with the bone structure as the whole process of the exercise, unlike what that poster was saying.

Beautiful post, shawnee :)

[Arado*TB]

Gotcha ,Thanks

[poltroon]

This past month I've just been thinking about this kind of stuff in general and honestly...
do horses like this? any of it? jumping, eventing, dressage, racing, showing, being ridden at all? do THEY LIKE THIS?!? is this all cruel? do we have the right to do whatever we want with these animals just because we can?

I'm starting to feel guilty every time I go to ride my horse and I don't know how to justify it, I just do it because I like to. is this really okay?

Most horses that I've ever ridden love to gallop. You can feel them grinning after a good one.

[Reds-n-Greys]

Thank you shawneeAcres for the perspective. Well said.

[BabyGoose]

I'm not stopping because I think I can affect change with my own personal boycott, it's just that fear of what I might witness overrides the joy of the sport for me now.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not bashing racing, or blaming racing for her death. I don't think that people who continue to watch are sick or anything like that. I have loved horse racing since I was a little kid. It has just changed for ME somehow. It is hard for me because I DO love it so much, but it has become to much of an emotional rollercoaster for me. Maybe that makes me too sensitive or melodramatic, but that is just the way I feel.

[Catsdorule-sigh]

God Speed Eight Bells, you ran with the boys, beat the field, and made Big Brown earn his win. What heart.

Thoughts with her owners and trainer.

I too, was appalled at the way the outrider treated Big Brown. I initially thought that's why he dumped his rider, due to the rough handling. Horses get hurt that way.

RIP Eight Bells, run with the wind now, you have no restraints.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I will be honest here. I simply can't watch eventing, because there have been injuries. This is a personal choice - I am at the point where I worry when I watch the Grand Prix jumping.

But then, I was the kid who watched western movies for the horses, and never worried about the actors going down, just the horses.

Does this mean there should be no eventing? Grand Prix jumping? No.

But I do sincerely hope that everything than can be done for safety, is done - as has been said, the horses don't choose, we do. I am not an expert in eventing, or jumping, or racing, or any other sport, so I won't presume to tell anyone what should be done.

However - it is a vast responsibility, and this is true for those who slowly injure by poor chronic care, as well.

Still, my heart goes out to the owners, andtrainer, and all who worked with this filly.

[AppJumpr08]

bauhaus, thank you for that post.

I'm just so thankful that she was allowed to cross the bridge so quickly.

[Smiles]

Before the race started I said I want to see all these horse race another day. Everyone got by the wire and I thought thank you every one is still standing, and than it happened. I really think like others have said she looked nqr the last part of the race. At one point before the wire she tripped a little. But only a little. I think her ankels had fracture at that point and when she went to fall is when they broke... Its to bad because I really thought she was going to pull off an upset. I thank god that my horses are strong and healthy and never have anything like that ever happen to them... Jingles for the owners/trainers/grooms/riders that were involved with her daily activities!!!!

[CTDarkhorse045]

Did anyone notice her change her stride when she started down the stretch? You can very clearly see a change when you watch the length of her stride, it goes from long and smooth to short and choppy, which makes me and my fellow equine friends think that maybe she had hurt herself starting down the stretch. Just a thought!
RIP

[RedMare01]

They interviewed Larry Jones on the local news after the race; he had been crying and broke down again when he said the owners wanted the filly cremated after her autopsy. So very sad for all of them.

I think the problem lies in breeding for precociousness and not durablity.

Caitlin

[Coyoteco]

Does the fact that this was run on a dirt track rather than a new synthetic track have any significance?

Would this have occured on a synthetic track? Would Barbaro's injury have occured on a synthetic track? (or any other injury at Churchhill Downs)?

Perhaps it isn't something that anyone knows but I'd like to hear from people who are knowledgeable in horse racing.

Can these injuries be limited in severity?

[poltroon]

How horribly sad.

How long does it take for the equine ambulance to get to a horse that goes down? Do they do digital radiographs immediately to assess the damage?

RIP brave filly.

It couldn't have been more than a minute or two. They were to her exceedingly quickly, for which I am grateful.

The pictures of her from before the race are lovely, and it seems clear to me that if her connections had known that she would be second (a great triumph) but that the price would be her death, they would've taken her home instead. :(

[BuddyRoo]

Coyo--I don't know if you watched any of the races yesterday, but it was wet wet wet. And while I'm not a pro when it comes to racing, I did hear during the various telecasts that there was concern that the surface was packed down harder than normal today due to the wet conditions yesterday.

And yes...weather aside, the synthetic tracks seem to cause less percussive strain/injury. You can learn more about that with a simple google search. If my computer weren't being so slow today I'd go hunt down some of the articles for you.....sorry!

[bascher]

Thanks to a fellow board member who posted this on another board. Beware, the picture is graphic:
http://www.comcast.net/sports/articles/general/2008/05/03/RAC.Kentucky.Derby.Eight.Belles/


I guess I'm just a little confused about the entire incident. It looked in that picture that there were a lot of people around her, but in the video clip someone showed earlier, she was galloping by herself and fell. Was this picture taken as she tried to get back up? Wow that filly had heart to try to get up after the immense pain she was obviously in. RIP sweet one.

[Kenike]

is that interview with Mr. Jones online, yet?

[Kenike]

I guess I'm just a little confused about the entire incident. It looked in that picture that there were a lot of people around her, but in the video clip someone showed earlier, she was galloping by herself and fell. Was this picture taken as she tried to get back up? Wow that filly had heart to try to get up after the immense pain she was obviously in. RIP sweet one.

Yes, it was taken after she got back up, before she went back down and was shown lying on the track.

[RedMare01]

is that interview with Mr. Jones online, yet?

Not that I can find, but the sation is: www.wave3.com

There are pictures on the front page of CNN...

Caitlin

[clearound]

RIP and Godspeed Eight Belles! You were all class!

[Coyoteco]

Coyo--I don't know if you watched any of the races yesterday, but it was wet wet wet. And while I'm not a pro when it comes to racing, I did hear during the various telecasts that there was concern that the surface was packed down harder than normal today due to the wet conditions yesterday.

And yes...weather aside, the synthetic tracks seem to cause less percussive strain/injury. You can learn more about that with a simple google search. If my computer weren't being so slow today I'd go hunt down some of the articles for you.....sorry!

Thanks Buddyroo. I can look up articles. I guess I didn't think to do that. I know I've heard articles which say they are safer, but those were not necessarily authoritative articles.

In general: Then, of course, that leads to the obvious question about why all tracks don't change to the safer surface. I know there are challenges in dirt and tradition and all that, but is there a real reason to not put the safer surface.

[Boston Chicken]

I returned from dinner after having Tivo'd the race (I swore I would never watch another live race after Barbaro). I paused the race and called my mom just as Big Brown crossed. She told me about the Filly. I'm awfully glad I didn't see it - and I will never watch another race again.

So terribly sad.

[Simkie]

Oh. My. God. How damn heartbreaking.

I missed the derby, but TiVod it and was really looking forward to watching the several hours of earlier races leading up to the derby and then the big race. I logged on here, and saw this thread--just read the first couple posts before pulling up the race, fast forwarding to call to post and keeping my eyes on the filly for the whole race, with tears in my eyes. When she crossed the finish line, I let out a deep sigh of relief and started scrolling down...only to see the girl on the ground. Holy shit.

So, so sad.

[Kenike]

Thanks, Redmare. Incredible pictures, indeed :cry:

I'm really surprised Mr. Jones has spoken so soon. This has to be so very awful for him...

[ivy62]

Every race I watch I hope everyone returns to their barn safe....It appears that the safest surface to run is grass, like they do in England. Do not get me wrong there are breakdowns every where but it seems more likely on the dirt.
Since the race was over I thought we were safe!
I had just returned home from Rolex which was upsetting to begun with and then Chelokee breaking down yesterday...
I do not have the answers and yes it is a part of the sport but it just really stinks...

I have read several articles over the last many years about breeding responsibly and that means not just speed but bone and soundness also.....

RIP Eight Belles..may you run free over the rainbow bridge
Hugs to all involved they must be devestated....

[firefloyd]

In general: Then, of course, that leads to the obvious question about why all tracks don't change to the safer surface. I know there are challenges in dirt and tradition and all that, but is there a real reason to not put the safer surface.

I thought this was a good editorial on the problems that changing to the new surface creates (as one could guess, all of the are $$ related... from difficulty handicapping to changing breeding goals):

http://www.slate.com/id/2164047/

[lcw579]

First I'd like to say this about "what happened". I think, very likely there are two possible scenarios which led to breakdown of this fabulous filly. The first is tiring. The filly ran a hard race, and obviosuly in the stretch she was tiring. When any animal tires, the support from the muscles, ligaments and tendons begins to give way, the animal can then take a misstep, which can lead to injury. How many times do you see a human runner tire and sprain or even break an ankle becuase their legs were jsut giving out from the exhaustion. I feel that is the most likely reason for this fillies breakdown., Second is that possiby she had a very smal hairline fracture that during the race weakened and then gave way at the end of the race. Noone will ever know for sure, but these are the two most likely causes of her broken ankles.

Secondly, all of you that want to stop watching that is fine. I too did not like what happened, it saddened and sickened us to see that filly lying there, yet she was swiftly attended to, diagnosed and euthanized. One thing racing has over ALL other equine sports is absolutely the best and fastest veterinary care available. It was IMMEDIATE that they attended to her. As someone else said a far better fate than what many ex-racers face! I do not understand the mentality that becuase a horse breaks down in racing,e venting or any other horse sport that we should cease that sport. If that DOES occur then there is not going to be a logical reason for horses to remain in our country, they aren't used for work, except in very limited places, and they aren't used for meat. They really are not companion animals like dogs or cats, so then what reason to feed, house and care for such a very large and expensive creature??? they exist SOLELY for sport, period. Our responsibility is to do our BEST to properly prepare and condition them, ride them, train them and compete them as fairly as we can. Accidents ARE going to happen, and the best we can do is swiftly attend to that animal and make the humane decision to euthanize when needed. And then to ELARN from the incident and try and improve things, but NOT to bash the sport altogether for one incident. It happens, and guess what, so do car wrecks and airline catastrophes. The hrose doesn't have a say in what he is used for, but if he wasn't usd for sport, he wouldn't exist in our culture during this day and age.

Very well said

Most horses that I've ever ridden love to gallop. You can feel them grinning after a good one.

Ain't that the truth!

What a filly! My thoughts are with her connections tonight and in the days that follow as they deal with her empty stall and their aching hearts.

[Underdog]

I have been following this post...and thank god someone else saw what we did.

"Did anyone notice her change her stride when she started down the stretch? You can very clearly see a change when you watch the length of her stride, it goes from long and smooth to short and choppy, which makes me and my fellow equine friends think that maybe she had hurt herself starting down the stretch. Just a thought!"

My husband and I actually *gasped*, from the camera angle we saw in the initial crowd where they converged after the gate.
We saw a horse *almost* go down, and GASPED. A grey.

That filly ran on pure adrenaline...it happen early IMO.
She would have won IMO.
Just another observation.

We both saw something very early on.

[RedMare01]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/more/05/03/bc.us.rac.kentuckyderby.belles.ap/index.html?eref=T1

A very good article.

Caitlin

[eventer678]

wow... its so sad:cry::cry:

[LearnToFly]

All I could think of when I heard she went down was the clip they ran earlier of her and her trainer: "Larry to Eight Belles, you can pull up whenever you feel like it!" and how he was riding her around with a big grin on his face like a kid on his first pony. I feel so sick for him right now.

I didn't like her action behind in the walking ring. But I don't typically have a great eye for soundness...I figured I was seeing things.

A buddy of mine linked this video of her workout last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RHB46v5s7k

Should a horse moving this way have been asked to race?

I don't see what you're talking about in the video... I thought maybe she didn't look right during the warm-up, but I don't ever think very many look sound in their hind end. I DID see the bobble in that last furlong, wonder if that's when she started breaking down?

Semi-OT, but if we're going to improve the safety of the horses in races like this, the first thing we can do is make the field smaller... Gees, 20 horses breaking from the gate at the same time at a racing gallop is enough to put your heart in your throat!!

[Kenike]

speaking on how the outrider handled BB at the end, if you watch the replay of the race (on the WAVE link) you can see as soon as he has control of the horse that both he and the jockey immediately turn around to see what's going on with Eight Belles. Then as they turn to trot back, outrider, jockey, and BB are all locked on the filly watching what's going on. You can see BB's eyes get huge and he wants to run away from the filly...I'm imagining that he spooked when she trying to get up again.

It was kind of harsh how he handled the horse, but I still think he was thinking simply in terms of stopping the horse and making sure no more accidents happened.

[Plumcreek]

In a recent edition of The Bloodhorse concentrating on synthetic surfaces, the concensus I came away with was that there has been a decrease in bone injuries, but an increase in muscle injuries, as most of the different synthetic surfaces are deeper to the base than dirt surfaces.

[Kenike]

I still hold to my opinion that she was drifting left and the jockey was trying to correct her at the point everyone is saying she shortened up. She did the same thing and the exercise rider had to do the same thing in that video posted of her Apr 27 workout. Once she was again straight and no longer drifting in the race she flattened out and looked good.

Theories, only...

[jumper11]

I seem to be on the same wavelength as others here.

I was torn about tuning into the Derby.

I should've listened to the side of me that said DON'T DO IT.

Shades of Ruffian.

I was so rooting for that filly and I was so thrilled to see her almost succeeding.

Then to have that shot of her lying out flat.

ROT IN HADES, greedy owners and trainers.

Just reinforces my feeling that 2 and 3 year old horses are BABIES. They have NO business being pushed like this.



Rolex coverage was advertised as being on tomorrow. I think I will plan on mucking manure instead, as a much more worthy use of my time. Eventing has taken a turn down the road of racing -- it's all about the buck, not about the horse.
The dramatics aren't necessary. The horse wouldn't have ever been born if this weren't her job. It sucks that she broke down, it's really terrible but why condemn her owners, I'm sure they feel crappy enough as it is.

[hundredacres]

I didn't watch it - for the first time in probably 15-20 years. I just came home from a night at Chuck E. Cheese with the kiddo and read this story. Ugh.

I am so burned out on the breakdowns. I can't enjoy it anymore. It just feels wrong lately - and I LOVE horse racing. It's just not so fun or exciting to watch anymore.

[florida foxhunter]

I am absolutely sick to my stomach! Poor filly!

[fish]

I didn't watch it - for the first time in probably 15-20 years. I just came home from a night at Chuck E. Cheese with the kiddo and read this story. Ugh.

I am so burned out on the breakdowns. I can't enjoy it anymore. It just feels wrong lately - and I LOVE horse racing. It's just not so fun or exciting to watch anymore.

Exactly. I love college basketball (Duke fan), and think the players and the game are gorgeous, but I don't think I could continue watching if I started seeing my favorite athletes die on the court.

[J. Turner]

I love this picture I found of her with her trainer riding her. She looks so nice to ride in the trot picture. She almost looks like she's in a hunter hack class or a little beginning dressage frame.

http://www2.nysun.com/pics/150_large.jpg

[DeeThbd]

Did she break the ankles and then fall down or did she break the ankles because she fell down? Anyone see what actually happened? She seemed fine up until the end so it seems strange that both ankles would go at the same time after the race.

RIP. Very sad.

Am only partway through this sad thread....from what I've known, when a horse breaks both fronts, sometimes one break happens first, and the added stress on the opposite fore causes a break on the other.
Rest you gentle, sleep you sound, sweet momma.:(
Dee

[tarynls]

Thankfully she was attended to and euthanized within 1-2 minutes of her injury.

Both Dr. Bramladge (sp?) and the outriders were there ASAP. Thankfully she was euthanized within 1-2 minutes of her injury. Dr. Bramladge said he'd never seen anything like this before.....

Both fetlocks were broken. One dislocated, one had a compound fracture with bone coming through the skin.

Makes me sick. Will not watch another Derby.....shades of too many broken down horses.

Charasmatic come to anyone's mind? God Bless Chris Antley for pulling him up ASAP.

God speed young filly; may you gallop freely over the Rainbow Bridge.

[2016 RoyalCrown KTug]

A filly ran with the big boys, and was so close, only to have this happen....

Godspeed sweetie. Gallop free forever with Secretariat, Barbaro and all the rest!

Thinking and praying for you Eight belles,

Gillian

[3DogNight]

I feel absolutely terrible for the owner, trainer, jockey, and all those associated with this brave filly. I'm sure that none of them envisioned this day ending the way it did. I could very easily see myself saying "I won't watch racing again" or "I won't watch eventing again", but how hypocritical would that be, knowing that my 17 yr. old OTTB mare is getting ready to go to her first show of the year next weekend and that anything could happen? Heck, it could happen in turnout tomorrow. I also know that she loves her job, and that she's happiest when she sees that fence in front of her, even if it's only 2'6" these days.

I'm saddened that this filly's life ended far too early, but I truly believe that if these horses didn't love what they did, they wouldn't be performing at such high levels. I can only hope that those coming down hard on the industry realize that these owners and trainers DO care for their horses, and maybe show a little respect for those that lost a treasured friend today.

RIP Eight Belles.

[2016 RoyalCrown KTug]

I feel absolutely terrible for the owner, trainer, jockey, and all those associated with this brave filly. I'm sure that none of them envisioned this day ending the way it did. I could very easily see myself saying "I won't watch racing again" or "I won't watch eventing again", but how hypocritical would that be, knowing that my 17 yr. old OTTB mare is getting ready to go to her first show of the year next weekend and that anything could happen? Heck, it could happen in turnout tomorrow. I also know that she loves her job, and that she's happiest when she sees that fence in front of her, even if it's only 2'6" these days.

I'm saddened that this filly's life ended far too early, but I truly believe that if these horses didn't love what they did, they wouldn't be performing at such high levels. I can only hope that those coming down hard on the industry realize that these owners and trainers DO care for their horses, and maybe show a little respect for those that lost a treasured friend today.

RIP Eight Belles.

...And you just said that perfectly...

[DickHertz]

I can't seem to find the NBC replay anywhere, but there was a horse either in the back or near the back of the field who was taking some rough bad steps turning into the stretch and the jockey was pounding on him with the whip. I was like 'jackoff, you're 30 lenghts out of it and your horse is not travelling sound, why are you hitting the horse'.

[Mirakel]

Most horses that I've ever ridden love to gallop. You can feel them grinning after a good one.


I have to agree with this. I don't know a TON about racing, but I did gallop youngins for a while.

I'll never forget taking a specific baby out to the track for the first time. We were being ponied by a very old, very retired racehorse. We set out at a brisk walk, they broke to a quiet trot for a bit, and all of a sudden took off. The ponying horse had been used to pony a lot of the babies and had never pulled anything like this before. Somehow, though, the one I was on knew exactly what to do. The other rider attempted to pull hers up, but neither of them were having it. The flat out raced for a bit, I pulled up eventually with a face full of mud.

Anyway, I'm completely heartbroken about Eight Belles. I feel like I've lost a dear friend.

[lep]

I watched the Derby and cried when I saw Eight Belles down, too, but what about all the other TBs who break down in training and in non-televised races? I think that perhaps it's a little naive for people to swear off watching racing because of another televised break down. Things like this happen all the time all over the country and there's no uproar over those horses dying or being sent to auction due to lameness or whatever else happens to them. I find the racing industry to be a sad one. I pass several breeding farms on the way to my boarding barn, and I get a little sad inside every time I see all those babies outside. I just think how many of them will not have good fates. Yes, there are those good ones that get treated "well" and might get cushy retirements, but I think that's a small amount when compared to how many are born every year.

On a different note, are there any statistics as to how many TBs die each year, either in training and/or during a race?

[HorseSoGreen]

When I was watching her in the post parade, I said to my husband, "There goes a breakdown waiting to happen." I've never been so sorry to be right. When you compare her front legs to the colts in the race, she was just not up to this task. She was not well enough developed for this kind of race -- hardly any bone in the front, underdeveloped stifles behind, not enough rump muscle, and not enough weight. If an armchair quarterback like me can see that the horse was not fit enough for this race, why didn't her connections see it?

[Savoy 8]

Where's the footage of the ESPN interview with her trainer? I didn't get to see it..

Very sad! what a great filly... RIP Eight Belles... you beat 18 boys!

[DickHertz]

I would estimate the number of catastrophic breakdowns in all of North America to be about 300-400 per year - this is for horses that are put down on the racetrack. I read something in the bloodhorse a few months ago and their figures for major circuits were about 10-15 per year. I'm sure there are hundreds if not several thousand that come back so bad that they need put down.

Not sure about the training injuries, but I would guess the number would be equal or higher since more horses train in the morning than race in the afternoon.

One time at Penn National I watched a race in the kitchen. A horse named "Glowing True" (sp?) won a gut wrenching race. The horse got claimed by Ralph Riviezzo and he brought him back to the receiving barn and after a half lap around the barn, he couldn't walk anymore and had to be put down (I think - I had to leave, but I know they were giving him banamine and if he couldn't make it on the van, they were going to put him down). I'm sure there are many more instances like this.

[DickHertz]

When I was watching her in the post parade, I said to my husband, "There goes a breakdown waiting to happen." I've never been so sorry to be right. When you compare her front legs to the colts in the race, she was just not up to this task. She was not well enough developed for this kind of race -- hardly any bone in the front, underdeveloped stifles behind, not enough rump muscle, and not enough weight. If an armchair quarterback like me can see that the horse was not fit enough for this race, why didn't her connections see it?

I do think Larry Jones tends to drill his horses pretty good. In some ways, I think it's good to drill horses in the morning so you know they can hold up to the rigors in the afternoon, but I do think Jones pushes his horses a little harder than maybe he should. Even though he had a hell of a year, I think Hard Spun was overtrained to some degree. Just my opinion - I'm not saying he "killed" Eight Belles.

[Platinum Equestrian]

I was just sickened when they said a horse was down... then they said it was Eight Belles. I just couldn't believe it. What a special filly to be lost with no good reason.

["A"HunterGal]

When I was watching her in the post parade, I said to my husband, "There goes a breakdown waiting to happen." I've never been so sorry to be right. When you compare her front legs to the colts in the race, she was just not up to this task. She was not well enough developed for this kind of race -- hardly any bone in the front, underdeveloped stifles behind, not enough rump muscle, and not enough weight. If an armchair quarterback like me can see that the horse was not fit enough for this race, why didn't her connections see it?

This is EXACTLY what I thought as well. I saw her go past and I said to my mom, "wow, she looks YOUNG." I'm a H/J gal, know nothing really about racing, but even I could see that there was a huge difference between her body composition/muscle development and that of the other horses in the field.

I too had a bad feeling going into this race. Funny how that's a common sentiment. I'm done watching horse racing. RIP Eight Belles, you ran your heart out and everyone is so proud of you. :(

[maxdog]

I just don't understand how this happened. It's not fair. :no: :cry:
Are you serious? Perhaps it has something to do with running on bones that aren't fully formed? Just an idea:mad::cry:

[horsegirl888]

Ohhhh my God. She was only three! This is such a sad day. I don't know if I can watch this anymore. I cannot stand seeing these 2 and 3 year olds try their hearts out, and know that they are just tooooo young.

I was saying to my dad before the race, "You know, I wish they wouldn't race them so young, they are too young to be doing this, their bones aren't up to that kind of stress so early." And now look what happens. Oh, it just makes me so sad. And I was cheering for Eight Belles so much... rest in peace. She ran a brilliant race.

[lep]

Right now in eventing, there is an uproar over a few recent accidents, and the NY Times has even done an article on it. Why are the deaths of a few event horses and the injuries/deaths of a few event riders (which are tragic of course) causing an outcry over the state of eventing, yet the deaths of racing TBs go basically unnoticed unless they happen in a nationally-televised race? I don't know the statistics, but I assume that more jockeys/exercise riders are injured/killed every year than are event riders. I am not saying the eventing accidents aren't terrible, but I don't understand the focus on those in light of "blind eyes" being turned on racing accidents.

Note, I am not saying I am anti-racing, I just find it to be a sad industry, and I wish that so many TBs weren't bred every year....

[maxdog]

Lep...you got it! Horrible double standard. Some races there a 7 or more horses euthanized!

[eyesontheground]

Sweet little Belle...

Jingles for your people. The images I will have of you is the one coming down the stretch beating all those boys and from the trainers interview and him saying you where always ready to work and always had your ears up!

So Miss Belle....EARS UP!!

[Bluehorsesjp]

This past month I've just been thinking about this kind of stuff in general and honestly...
do horses like this? any of it? jumping, eventing, dressage, racing, showing, being ridden at all? do THEY LIKE THIS?!? is this all cruel? do we have the right to do whatever we want with these animals just because we can?

I'm starting to feel guilty every time I go to ride my horse and I don't know how to justify it, I just do it because I like to. is this really okay?

Horses like it. I know my jumpers LOVE their jobs. They puff up when we start jumping. They both ALWAYS jump with ears pricked forward. They are happiest when working, my old jumper who is rehabbing from any injury hates his life right now. He is bored and wants to work. My horses pull me to the trailer when we are leaving for shows. You can't tell me that they don't like their jobs.
Think about horses who don't like their jobs. A hunter I once knew who rushed his fences, stopped, wrung his tail. He was sold as a dressage horse and is fat and happy now. He does his job with joy and exuberance now.
I am sorry but you are just being melodramatic.
TB's are bred to run, it is what they are hard wired to do. The same with a herding dog, or a retriever. They have to do what they were bred to do.