HORRIFYING Incident at Charlestown on 4/30

[rigoletto]

I have received several calls and emails today about an incident in the 5th race at Charlestown on Wednesday. A horse named Oscar K broke down and was forced to walk/hop back to his barn three legged with a front leg hanging!! The owner/trainer, a guy named Boris Kocijan, refused to load the horse onto the ambulance! The ambulance driver followed him back to the barn trying to convince him to load the horse to no avail. The incident was, of course, caught on tape. The Equibase chart states that the horse "pulled up lame, did not finish, and walked off the track."

I have spoken with one of the stewards who has assured me that they are actively investigating this and had someone on the way over to the barn at about 8:00 this evening. He is genuinely concerned but seems to feel that there is a limit to what he/the stewards can do. The report was that Oskar K was laying down in the stall (as he had been for 2 days) with a hugely swollen leg and that the owner/trainer is going to try to get the horse off the track ASAP. I'm not sure what this means (and yes I do know what it could mean). I think the track needs to hear from people about this incident. They do not want bad PR. The stewards are upset as are many trainers. If the powers that be at Charlestown hear from the public, maybe they will force this idiot to do the right thing. He's claiming that he wouldn't load the horse because he was afraid they would euthanize him. Sounds like that's what the poor guy needs.

The phone number at the track is (800) 795 7001. Calls to the stewards and the publicity department would be great. Sorry to ramble on. It has been a very long week...

Diana

[Laurierace]

I have no idea what exactly is going on with this particular horse, but Dale Baird would never let them put a horse of his down on the track. They carted them off and waited until Monday if you know what I mean.

[Ritazza]

Man... and people are ragging on us eventers for our sport being too dangerous and damaging to horses!

[CoolMeadows]

Poor baby. Do you think this guy would let someone buy him right now? If he's that bad off, he needs to be PTS asap. :( Anyone have his contact info?

[Acertainsmile]

Man... and people are ragging on us eventers for our sport being too dangerous and damaging to horses!


Every equine sport can be dangerous, I am really having trouble coming up with a response to your post...

[rigoletto]

Poor baby. Do you think this guy would let someone buy him right now? If he's that bad off, he needs to be PTS asap. :( Anyone have his contact info?

Good question. I don't have his contact info, but you could probably get it from the stable gate. That horse does need to be PTS. I plan to contact several humane groups before I go to bed, but since it's Friday night, it might not do any good. The guy might sell the horse who knows.

[Barnfairy]

The chart does note that Oskar K "pulled up in distress but was walked off."

Boris Kocijan is not only the owner and trainer, he also bred Oskar K.

So, with that in mind...*maybe* Mr. Kocijan has enough of an attachment to this horse that he just can't face euthanasia? People are weird that way sometimes, blindly allowing an animal to suffer out of their own selfish desire to hold on forever.

Or maybe he is waiting for the KB to come. Either way it's a welfare nightmare.

[mintano]

Man... and people are ragging on us eventers for our sport being too dangerous and damaging to horses!

Classy. *facepalm*

[DickHertz]

Poor baby. Do you think this guy would let someone buy him right now? If he's that bad off, he needs to be PTS asap. :( Anyone have his contact info?

If you call the racing commission they usually give phone numbers out. Just say you want to call him about training a horse or something.

[rigoletto]

The chart does note that Oskar K "pulled up in distress but was walked off."

Boris Kocijan is not only the owner and trainer, he also bred Oskar K.

So, with that in mind...*maybe* Mr. Kocijan has enough of an attachment to this horse that he just can't face euthanasia? People are weird that way sometimes, blindly allowing an animal to suffer out of their own selfish desire to hold on forever.

Or maybe he is waiting for the KB to come. Either way it's a welfare nightmare.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. The guy apparently can't bear to think of putting his horse down. He's pacing the barn hysterically and having fits. Meanwhile the horse's leg is hugely swollen and he's in horrible pain. Where's the state vet in cases like this?

[BLBGP]

How does the racetrack not have any control over the situation?

[Jessi P]

What, exactly, does the recently deceased Dale Baird have to do with a horse owned, trained and bred by Boris Kocijan pulling up lame at Charlestown, 5 hours away, 4 months after Dale's death?????

[DickHertz]

Because Dale Baird should be remembered for the asshole that he was. He was the all-time winningest trainer and the also the all-time leading killer of racehorses.

[DickHertz]

Because Dale Baird should be remembered for the asshole that he was. He was the all-time winningest trainer and the also the all-time leading killer of racehorses.

I know someone who lost a horse to Dale in a claiming race. When the horse's form went south the previous owner went to Dale's barn and offered him $1,000 for the horse and he refused to sell the horse even though it never worked or raced again. The guy was a complete jackoff and his death will save horse's lives unless Penny Mathias or Bart Baird use the same tactics.

[CoolMeadows]

I think you hit the nail right on the head. The guy apparently can't bear to think of putting his horse down. He's pacing the barn hysterically and having fits. Meanwhile the horse's leg is hugely swollen and he's in horrible pain. Where's the state vet in cases like this?


Oy. Probably wouldn't want to sell to someone wanting to euthanize his horse then. What a terrible situation all the way around. I will try to get hold of him in the morning but it doesn't sound hopeful. :cry:

[Jessi P]

Have you ever been to Mountaineer? Did you ever meet Dale? Funny, I havent ever heard of you. Apparently you didnt know that Penny Mathias is no longer working for the Baird family. I find that VERY few people who have ever met Dale in person will speak ill of him. Like him or dont like him, the man was what he was, and he singlehandedly kept Mountaineer Park from going under.

When you keep 150+ horses in training you will have proportionately more accidents and injuries simply due to the increased numbers - is that so hard to understand? Especially when you take into consideration the fact that Dale bought culls from bigger tracks that could no longer do well there - culls are always going to be more prone to injury or accident - they are culls for a reason.

How awful those horse owners at the big tracks are - how dare they put their culls into an auction sale where other people could buy and race them instead of retiring them and supporting them in equine luxury the rest of their days...

And you have not yet explained why Dale Baird has ANYTHING to do with a horse pulling up lame at Charlestown. The man has been dead since Christmas.

[rigoletto]

I'll speak ill of Dale Baird. He killed at least 17 horses that I knew from the day they were born. Horses that I offered to take back when they were finished racing or more accurately, when he was finished running them into the ground but he refused to allow them to have a life after he was finished with them. Why? Why did they have to go to Sugarcreek? Because he was a greedy SOB. He was no horseman. He was a butcher. He threw horses away when he was finished with them. I have no respect for him. I hope horses he killed are stomping on him right now.

How does that sound to you Jessi P

[DickHertz]

Oy. Probably wouldn't want to sell to someone wanting to euthanize his horse then. What a terrible situation all the way around. I will try to get hold of him in the morning but it doesn't sound hopeful. :cry:

Charles Town is known for blacklisting people. Maybe they can do it in this case.

With that said, Chief Steward Danny Wright, is a complete idiot. The worst steward in America. Every horseman in the Mid-Atlantic knows this to be the case.

[DickHertz]

Have you ever been to Mountaineer? Did you ever meet Dale? Funny, I havent ever heard of you. Apparently you didnt know that Penny Mathias is no longer working for the Baird family. I find that VERY few people who have ever met Dale in person will speak ill of him. Like him or dont like him, the man was what he was, and he singlehandedly kept Mountaineer Park from going under.

When you keep 150+ horses in training you will have proportionately more accidents and injuries simply due to the increased numbers - is that so hard to understand? Especially when you take into consideration the fact that Dale bought culls from bigger tracks that could no longer do well there - culls are always going to be more prone to injury or accident - they are culls for a reason.

How awful those horse owners at the big tracks are - how dare they put their culls into an auction sale where other people could buy and race them instead of retiring them and supporting them in equine luxury the rest of their days...

And you have not yet explained why Dale Baird has ANYTHING to do with a horse pulling up lame at Charlestown. The man has been dead since Christmas.


I wasn't the one who brought up Dale Baird. I just contributed to the conversation. So, because he had 150 horses in training and bought horses at auctions - he should get a pass for killing horses? Sorry, the guy should be in hell for what he did on this earth.

[DickHertz]

I'll speak ill of Dale Baird. He killed at least 17 horses that I knew from the day they were born. Horses that I offered to take back when they were finished racing or more accurately, when he was finished running them into the ground but he refused to allow them to have a life after he was finished with them. Why? Why did they have to go to Sugarcreek? Because he was a greedy SOB. He was no horseman. He was a butcher. He threw horses away when he was finished with them. I have no respect for him. I hope horses he killed are stomping on him right now.

How does that sound to you Jessi P

Well said. And Jessi P...I've been to Mountaineer Park several times. I never went down to shake the guy's hand because I have no respect for him in the first place. When people come to your barn and offer you more money than you would get at a killer auction and you don't sell the horse - you are more than a jerk - you are butcher. Excuse me for not knowing Penny Mathias is no longer working for the Baird family. I work 50 hours a week at my day job then help my wife rub horses till 10PM every night. The notion to check on who's taking over for Dale Baird was pretty far down my list.

Dale Baird killed at least 20,000 horses while he was "saving" Waterford/Mountaineer. Call me crazy, but the greater good would have been in Mountaineer just closed and Dale Baird would have to go to a real track and try to win races the real way.

[DickHertz]

Dale Baird conversation aside - I do think this trainer should be stripped of his training license. Any horseman who doesn't know humane vs. cruel has no business owning a license despite what senitimental feelings there may be. I've been in this position - at Charles Town - and even though I had tears in my eyes, I told the vet to put the horse down before he even got out of his car.

[rigoletto]

When people come to your barn and offer you more money than you would get at a killer auction and you don't sell the horse - you are more than a jerk - you are butcher.

Dale Baird killed at least 20,000 horses while he was "saving" Waterford/Mountaineer. Call me crazy, but the greater good would have been in Mountaineer just closed and Dale Baird would have to go to a real track and try to win races the real way.


He was a big fish in a small pond. He'd have been nothing in the real world of racing. End of story.

[gubbyz]

Is this post about Dale? DOn't think so, it is about an injured horse. Can you Dale bashers start your own post? Its interupting my reading here.

[rigoletto]

Dale Baird conversation aside - I do think this trainer should be stripped of his training license. Any horseman who doesn't know humane vs. cruel has no business owning a license despite what senitimental feelings there may be. I've been in this position - at Charles Town - and even though I had tears in my eyes, I told the vet to put the horse down before he even got out of his car.

Sounds like this horse should be put down and the trainer is not inclined to do so. I'm not sure why the state vet won't step in and take a look at Oskar K and do what is right. The stewards can't even get the vet to show them the xrays at this point. I hate to think of the poor horse suffering because the idiotic trainer can't bear to do the right thing.

[Jessi P]

All of this speculation with no facts to back it up....

And Dick, you have really shown your colors. Being here "several times" has nothing to do with the fact that you are pulling figures out your wazoo with no facts to back it up.

Speculation is just that, speculation. It is a sad fact, but horses break down in all disciplines. Without having been there, knowing the facts and seeing the horse all you can do is speculate and "fing and nump" all day long.

Rigoletto, you apparently have some real issues with horse racing. Maybe you need to find another field of interest that is less stressful for you. As has been said by the best.."this is no game for little boys in short pants."

Breakdowns and injuries happen to even the most well regarded, well respected horse trainers, no matter how much we might want to pretend otherwise. Matz. Barbaro. Chelokee. No, its not fun, its painful to hear about and horrible to contemplate Chelokee's future (if he made it through the night).

I refuse to belittle or judge someone else based on third hand comments posted on a BB by a person with an obvious agenda.

[YankeeLawyer]

Breakdowns and injuries happen to even the most well regarded, well respected horse trainers, no matter how much we might want to pretend otherwise. Matz. Barbaro. Chelokee. No, its not fun, its painful to hear about and horrible to contemplate Chelokee's future (if he made it through the night).



That may be true, but how one handles such situations separates horsemen(and women) from ... others. Which is what this thread is about.

Surely if the horse is still at the track the officials could do *something.*

[Norcrest]

I agree with Jessi P..this speculation is not doing anyone any good here. Unless you know for sure what is going on with Oskar K you are just assuming and we all know what that means....do you have an "in" with the stewards, track vet or trainer? If not then speculating isnt going to help at all. A few months back I brought home a filly from MNR that was walked off after her last race, she was 3 legged lame and everyone was screaming for her to be put down...she is still sore but it was not lifethreatening..she pulled her suspensories..deep track, coming out of the gate...but still there were more than a few people ticked off at the trainer for not putting her down immediately...she will be on stall rest for a few more months but according to Cornell she will come back completely sound.
Take the Dale Baird discussion elsewhere, please...I dont care to read about it.

[Frog]

I haven't been here in months but I see not much has changed! An entire thread started to say something nasty about someone, based on emails and phone calls? There must be an awful lot of eyewitnesses to the goings on at the barn, and luckily they all have your email address and phone number. Horses, and athletes of all kind for that matter, limp away from races and other sporting events. And I'm appalled at how many of you think that some authority should have the right to take someone's horse away. Everyone says that until they come for your horse too!

As for Dale Baird, I never met the man but the idea that a businessman would turn down more money than his horse was worth, just to spend more money on it and kill it, is completely preposterous and a very juvenile thought.

[On the Farm]

That may be true, but how one handles such situations separates horsemen(and women) from ... others. Which is what this thread is about.


Not really. My old pal Forest Legend spent the last six weeks of his life in agony because the self-proclaimed horse "lover" who adopted him chose to stand him in cross ties with a hopelessly broken leg (paddock accident.) This horse "lover" then sent out a mass e-mailing detailing how great she was for saving this poor horse from the "horrors" of the racetrack.

Frankly, I've been around long enough to mistrust the premise of threads like these. I also think that if we're going to judge people, we need to judge them equally, whether they're a hand to mouth trainer at Charlestown, or a former claiming trainer in New York who kept a broken down horse alive for an extra day while trying to find a vet who thought his beloved charge had a chance to live, or a wealthy couple who put a horse through sheer hell (jmho) at New Bolton for eight months.

[CoolMeadows]

I've just had a nice chat with Boris - he called me back after I left a message stating I was calling about Oskar K this morning. The horse has a slab fracture and is wearing a brace and being treated. I admit I had a little bit of a tough time understanding him, but he said something along the lines of the state vet (?) showed up at 11:30 one night pressuring him to move the horse off the track and he said he won't do it for a few weeks so Oskar is a little further along in his healing. He also said that he has a farm with a couple of retirees, and that Oskar is the only horse he's ever bred and that he "loves his baby". He said he's weight bearing at times, paws and nickers for food and comes to the stall gate for attention. He also said that should Oskar founder or go downhill, he will put him down because "he will not let his baby suffer". He did say that he walked him back after the race and didn't think Oskar was as injured as he is until he got him back to his stall.

Folks, this is a really nice man who really loves his horse and is treating him. He gave me the vet's name but I'm not going to post that information. It sounds like he made a an error in judgement about not transporting Oskar via ambulance but otherwise, he is doing everything right and clearly wants the best for his horse. Horses can have good lives after slab fractures and that is all Boris is aiming for with Oskar.

[Acertainsmile]

I know the state vet that was at CT is gone... but she had a reputation for being very quick to put a horse down.

We had a horse that pulled up on the turn, he had bowed...when my husband made it to the horse, the vet had a needle out, ready to put him down. My husband refused, and she argued with him.

I'm happy to say that particular horse is now having a happy retirement with TRF.

So you never know WHAT was going on in this owners head...although I do agree it was uncaring not to give him a lift back to the barn.

[TBCollector]

Was the horse's right front leg "hanging," as the original post to this thread claimed?

[Acertainsmile]

Was the horse's right front leg "hanging," as the original post to this thread claimed?

I seriously doubt it was "hanging"... that wouldnt happen with a slab fracture...I'm sure he was just not bearing any weight on it.

[SleepyFox]

Wow, it's 10 am and I already have a splitting headache. Thanks, guys. Way to really take things as lowbrow as possible based on speculation.

CoolMeadows, thanks for posting facts. Glad to hear the horse is stable and that the trainer is (gasp!) a big hearted guy trying to do the right thing.

I know some of you really care about the horses and want to make sure they are cared for well. However, urging complete strangers on the internet to call the stewards, state vet, the track and the trainer himself over something about which you have NO FACTS regarding the details is not helpful. This trend of assuming the worst about everyone in racing is very disturbing. It appears this trainer is a good guy who truly cares about his horses - exactly what you are clamoring this sport needs more of. But, running off half-cocked forming an internet lynch mob... what good does that do? Get a good trainer known to the stewards in a bad way? Get him on the wrong side of the state vet? Have people harassing him when he's already stressed? How does this accomplish anything positive?

Bringing up the deceased in the way he has been on this thread is just low class, common behavior.

[cloudyandcallie]

I would like to think that a race horse owner/trainer cares about his/her horses, but....................that one would put his horse on the ambulance and take him to a vet hospital or put him in a sling, not let him lie in pain in his stall. So I suspect that the worse is true here, so some state or track official should have put the horse down. period.
and why not say things about the dead if they are true? I don't know anyone involved, but sometimes people say good (but false) things about people just cause they don't want to "speak ill"........everyone should know if a trainer/owner is a killer. I've buried 3 horses in my lifetime, so I don't think 80 cents a pound is a good reason to let a horse suffer. Thanks to the people who point out how bad some trainer/owners are. Just pray that all 20 of the horses get around the derby course today w/o ending up dead--today that is.:eek:

[caffeinated]

CoolMeadows, thanks for getting some facts :)

[CoolMeadows]

cloudyandcallie - maybe we would've loaded the horse but he didn't. He didn't know what the injury was and said the stall was pretty close and also expressed concern about the horse going up and down a ramp instead of taking a longer walk on flat ground. So, while it probably wasn't pretty to watch he did weigh out his decision based on the horse's best interests. His english was excellent but he does have quite a thick accent and my connection wasn't the best so the conversation was a bit tough to follow at times but this is not a bad, heartless trainer. He is absolutely not, no way no how - buying this horse a few days to send him to kill. He wants to retire him to a field when he's healed. Very nice guy... I asked him to keep my numbers and to please call if he needs anything. I hope Oskar's recovery goes well and that he enjoys his retirement.

[bobbybobby]

dick hertz sounds like a very bitter individual.....he knows nothing of dale baird or his operation....jealousy is a terrible thing ...get a life and a job!!!!!

[cloudyandcallie]

thanks coolmeadows for the info. I tend to be the "extraordinary measures" way.

[Kenike]

Thanks, CM. THat makes the whole thing much better...easier to deal with.

It's hard to differentiate between what is pure rumor and what is truth these days. There seems to be a lot of people who have only the goal to shut down racing (and more currently, eventing) so they'll send out an email to anyone who will listen detailing things that aren't exactly true.

I don't think it was uncaring to not use the ambulance. I think he knows it was a mistake, in hindsight, but he did what he thought was best at the moment. And stating he'll be retired to pasture instead of sold, donated, or just plain gotten rid of shows he truly does care.

As for the Dale Baird stuff? Well...I won't touch that right now, except to state that he's not my favorite of people. Err...wasn't.

[TKR]

I didn't know Dale Baird and it appears I'm glad I missed him. Yes, there are cruel and mean people who would rather see a horse suffer and die a miserable death than sell them for more money just because they can -- remember Ferdinand? That's precisely what his owner did! I know this thread isn't about DB, but it does relate to the unsavory side of racing and some question about a trainer and their judgement. I certainly hope the horse that broke down is not in terrific and pain and can recover. I don't think "outing" a person, dead or alive, that is guilty of terrible acts is undesirable -- why do you think we are constantly barraged with news and documentaries on the Holocaust? It's important to use history to correct the future.
JMHO!
PennyG

[Barnfairy]

I've just had a nice chat with Boris... He also said that he has a farm with a couple of retirees, and that Oskar is the only horse he's ever bred and that he "loves his baby". I had a feeling that this was the situation -- that he's especially attached to Oskar K having bred him. The choice to turn down the ambulance had me very worried that the horse was suffering unduly, but clearly this does not seem to be the case. Thank you CoolMeadows for setting the record straight.

[Triplicate]

This is all too out of line and should not be allowed to continue.
There are many ways to discuss things, but this is wrong.

[YankeeLawyer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeLawyer
That may be true, but how one handles such situations separates horsemen(and women) from ... others. Which is what this thread is about.

Not really. My old pal Forest Legend spent the last six weeks of his life in agony because the self-proclaimed horse "lover" who adopted him chose to stand him in cross ties with a hopelessly broken leg (paddock accident.) This horse "lover" then sent out a mass e-mailing detailing how great she was for saving this poor horse from the "horrors" of the racetrack.


Hello, we are saying the same thing.

[DickHertz]

All of this speculation with no facts to back it up....

And Dick, you have really shown your colors. Being here "several times" has nothing to do with the fact that you are pulling figures out your wazoo with no facts to back it up.

Speculation is just that, speculation. It is a sad fact, but horses break down in all disciplines. Without having been there, knowing the facts and seeing the horse all you can do is speculate and "fing and nump" all day long.

Rigoletto, you apparently have some real issues with horse racing. Maybe you need to find another field of interest that is less stressful for you. As has been said by the best.."this is no game for little boys in short pants."

Breakdowns and injuries happen to even the most well regarded, well respected horse trainers, no matter how much we might want to pretend otherwise. Matz. Barbaro. Chelokee. No, its not fun, its painful to hear about and horrible to contemplate Chelokee's future (if he made it through the night).

I refuse to belittle or judge someone else based on third hand comments posted on a BB by a person with an obvious agenda.

The person who got me started in the business worked at Waterford for 12 years in a barn right next to Dale. They saw the killer van pull up and leave with a bunch of horses at least twice a month. As for the number...20,000 sent to the killer is very conservative (and you know it).

avg. 8-10 horses every two weeks x 26 (trips each year) = 208 horses per year if you assume it's only 8 horses each trip. So, if he only did this for 10 years - which everyone know is not true - that is 20,800 horses.

[DickHertz]

Was the horse's right front leg "hanging," as the original post to this thread claimed?

Yeah...I assumed the horse snappped a leg and the bone was showing. That's what I think of when I read "hanging".

[YankeeLawyer]

Yeah...I assumed the horse snappped a leg and the bone was showing. That's what I think of when I read "hanging".

Me too

[Jessi P]

Yeah...I assumed the horse snappped a leg and the bone was showing. That's what I think of when I read "hanging".

Me too

Now.

Taking Rigoletto's post for fact had some not very nice ramifications for those who sprung to the front of the lynch squad, eager to strip the man of his trainers license and "rescue" Oskar from his evil clutches.

[YankeeLawyer]

Now.

Taking Rigoletto's post for fact had some not very nice ramifications for those who sprung to the front of the lynch squad, eager to strip the man of his trainers license and "rescue" Oskar from his evil clutches.

What on earth are you talking about? I never in any way suggested anything like that (perhaps others did, but since you chose to quote MY post, I am taking the liberty to respond). If someone posts that they saw a horse finish a race with his leg hanging, owner refused an ambulance and left the horse in that condition lying down in its stall, obviously people are going to express concern re whether the horse got appropriate medical attention and / or question whether it was humane to leave the horse in that condition.

As for the tangent regarding the deceased trainer who had nothing to do with any of the above, that seemed gratuitous, malicious, and inappropriate. And somehow that discussion morphed into denials that Oskar's owner intended to send his horse to auction, which no one had suggested, either.

[TouchstoneAcres]

Only one poster knows enough to write "Charles Town" as it should be.

[CoolMeadows]

Zoinks! So does this thing win the most ADD-riddled Thread Award or what?

[Kenike]

Zoinks! So does this thing win the most ADD-riddled Thread Award or what?

:lol:

[asanders]

but....................that one would put his horse on the ambulance and take him to a vet hospital or put him in a sling, not let him lie in pain in his stall.

Thank you CM for checking and posting. C&C I don't know what your background is, so maybe you know this and just feel differently, but I can certainly understand keeping the horse in his stall at the track rather than transporting to a vet hospital (by the way, one is right accross the street, and much of the staff works on both sides of the road). It's not the same as keeping a horse that needs constant care on a farm somewhere. He can get 24/7 care in his stall at the track if he needs it, and he will likely be more comfortable with his own grooms and handlers. The owner can keep much better tabs on him, afterall he works there in the barn every day. Vets are available at anytime one is needed. If the splint is working at this point, there doesn't seem to be a need to mess with a sling.

Also, as far as walking him back to the barn, maybe not the best decision in hindsite, but remember that the distance from the track to the barn at Charlestown may not have been very far. Not that it makes it right, but it probably influenced the trainers decision.

[rigoletto]

Okay, so things degenerated a bit, my bad. But what I said about Baird is not based on speculation. I do not speculate about things that are of a serious nature. I know better. You can slam me all you want, but I take what I say very seriously and I thought about it before I put it out there for you to read. I just had a hard time reading Jessie P's praises of a man who sent so many horses I loved to their death. Yes, he's dead and we're raised not to speak poorly of the dead, but (and please forgive me) the man refused to allow these horses to have a second chance when they were finished racing. It's not rumor or conjecture. It's true. I wish it wasn't.

As for Oskar K, there were several trainers who witnessed the horse's leg hanging because he was unable to walk on it. He has a fracture, apparently a serious slab fracture. They did not say the leg was swinging, just that it was hanging - as in he was not using it. He was "hopping" on 3 legs back to the barn. I'm sorry if any of you pictured a compound fracture and a swinging leg since that's not what I meant. I wrote what I was told, but I guess I should have been more specific. I also spoke with more than one steward at the track, members of the HBPA and a couple of folks who work on the backstretch. I did my homework.

I'm sure Boris sounds like a lovely man who loves his horse. That doesn't mean he's doing the right thing. He had refused, as of about noon today (I haven't had time to check since then) to allow the stewards or the HBPA to see his horse's xrays so that they could determine the extent of the horse's injuries. Boris told the head of the HBPA that he wouldn't put the horse on the ambulance because he thought that the track vet would put the horse down. The horse can't be moved because he isn't stable enough and Boris refuses to euthanize him. If he's not stable enough to move, the trainer won't allow anyone to see the xrays and won't put the horse down, can't afford surgery (if surgery is even appropriate), the situation sounds bad for the horse. Of course this all could have changed since I spoke with anyone at CT 12 hours ago. The horse was NOT in a splint, but was in a spider bandage. If a horse with a slab fracture is not stable enough to move, it is NOT a good sign at all... I'm thinking that there must be multiple fractures. Just a guess. I hope I'm wrong.

And Jessie P - I have no issue with racing. As a matter of fact, I've made a living in the thoroughbred/racing industry for the past 15 plus years both on the track and on farms. I just like to see it done right and I like to see the horses treated with dignity and respect. I'm not saying that all trainers at tracks like Mountaineer and Charlestown are bad, substandard, etc... There are bad trainers at the best tracks and good trainers at the worst. But I do know what Baird did to the horses we raised that were unfortunate enough to end up with him. Don't try to tell me that I don't. I've spoken personally to the guy who hauls the horses to auction, the man who owns Sugarcreek and the people who used to haul the horses to slaughter. You can believe whatever you want to believe, I know the sad truth. They deserved better than what they got from him. He was offered the opportunity to give them a retirement home.

You can all do what you want. I still think it's important to call the management at Charlestown to task to do the right thing for this horse. Look at it this way - if he was a big name horse, he wouldn't be in his stall forgotten, would he?

[Where'sMyWhite]

avg. 8-10 horses every two weeks x 26 (trips each year) = 208 horses per year if you assume it's only 8 horses each trip. So, if he only did this for 10 years - which everyone know is not true - that is 20,800 horses.

According to my math... 200 x 10 is 2000 not 20000....

[DickHertz]

Dale Baird was the "Hitler" of thoroughbreds. I know that sounds harsh, but it's freakin true. I don't care if he's dead/alive...Dale Baird sent tens of thousands of horses to slaughter. What he did wasn't illegal, but that doesn't mean his legacy shouldn't be as a "killer" instead of the all-time wins leader. Dale Baird was one of the worst people to ever get involved in thoroughbred racing.

[DickHertz]

According to my math... 200 x 10 is 2000 not 20000....

OK...he only killed 2,000 horses in his lifetime...my bad. I take back everything I said about Dale Baird.

[YankeeLawyer]

Obviously, the facts are a little up for grabs here. Nonetheless, I have witnessed a number of situations where a horse is not stable enough to transport by a van yet is not at all a euthanasia candidate. There is a big difference between having a horse perfectly stabilized in a splint in a stall, for example, and asking the same horse to balance its 1000+ pounds while in transit in a van. I have ridden in the back of a van enough times to know that. So imo, the decision not to transport the horse doesn't really say one thing or the other about the horse's prognosis, and there is no reason to ask the horse to suffer a van ride IF it can be adequately treated at its barn.

[CoolMeadows]

Ditto what YankeeLawyer said. I hope people stop calling or it will result in more suffering for Oskar. I don't know what's going on with the steward situation, that does sound strange, but Boris was very forthcoming with information when asked nicely. The horse is being treated by two vets and is on pain meds. Please think hard before continuing the calls to CT.

[bobbybobby]

dick hertz sounds like a jealous kid over dale bairds achievements,,,,he should get facts not hearsay.....

[ASB Stars]

I don't know "Dick", and I didn't know Dale, but even with Dick's faulty math, if that trainer made his bones at the expense of even ONE horse being sent off to slaughter, that is too many for me. When you reach a point with animals where they are simply numbers to you, you've been doing it too long. I have zero tolerance for it in any breed- and, let me tell you, my breed is just as guilty, but with fewer numbers to lose.

[DickHertz]

dick hertz sounds like a jealous kid over dale bairds achievements,,,,he should get facts not hearsay.....

Even Jessi would stipulate (if she has an ability to be honest) that Rudibaugh has made several hundred visits to Dale Baird's barn over the years.

[CoolMeadows]

Quick update - I just spoke to a CT representative. Oskar K is in a cast and is using that leg. His main veterinarian thinks he has a good chance of coming through this to be a pasture pet. :) He *is* leaving the track today. The representative I spoke to brought up the "dangling leg" quote and said it has caused quite a ruckus for everyone and that rumours that have flown around the track are starting to get straightened out. I know it was done out of concern, but that wording really does denote a catastrophic compound fracture or the like. As the CT person said, had that been the case there is no way the horse would have been allowed off the track - he would have been euthed immediately on the spot or in the ambulance.

I'm glad I investigated as it seemed so off that a horse with a fatal injury would have been allowed to suffer so blatantly, but that is not the case. He apparently did limp off the track according to the witness I spoke to, mixing putting the foot down and then not every few steps. So yes, I'm sure it was devestating to see but it really does sound like CT has been on top of it all along, the horse suffered a treatable injury and the owner is planning on giving the horse a nice retirement. I think it's a little uncalled for to suggest we don't care because the horse isn't a big name. Clearly a lot of people care.

[bobbybobby]

there is a lot more trainers that do respect their animals than those who do not.....people should not be so fast to jump to conclusions before knowing the facts...

[DickHertz]

there is a lot more trainers that do respect their animals than those who do not.....people should not be so fast to jump to conclusions before knowing the facts...

I agree that most do respect their horses.

Nobody is jumping to conclusions. Facts:
- Dale Baird put horses on a van driven by Dick Rudibaugh on many occasions.

- Dick Rudibaugh provided "van service" to Sugarcreek horse auctions. "...Dick Rudibaugh is known as the meat man..."
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/744847/detail.html

- Sugarcreek Horse Auctions are one of the largest providers of horse meat in the eastern part of the country.

I'm pretty much done talking about how Dale Baird killed thousands of horses. Hell, there are people who still think OJ is innocent, I guess the same can be said of people who think Dale Baird didn't send horses to slaughter.

[YankeeLawyer]

I agree that most do respect their horses.

Nobody is jumping to conclusions. Facts:
- Dale Baird put horses on a van driven by Dick Rudibaugh on many occasions.

- Dick Rudibaugh provided "van service" to Sugarcreek horse auctions. "...Dick Rudibaugh is known as the meat man..."
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/744847/detail.html

- Sugarcreek Horse Auctions are one of the largest providers of horse meat in the eastern part of the country.

I'm pretty much done talking about how Dale Baird killed thousands of horses. Hell, there are people who still think OJ is innocent, I guess the same can be said of people who think Dale Baird didn't send horses to slaughter.

This thread has nothing to do with that trainer. You really risk maligning the people it does involve by insisting on continually mixing the issues.

[caffeinated]

I agree that most do respect their horses.

Nobody is jumping to conclusions. Facts:
- Dale Baird put horses on a van driven by Dick Rudibaugh on many occasions.

- Dick Rudibaugh provided "van service" to Sugarcreek horse auctions. "...Dick Rudibaugh is known as the meat man..."
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/744847/detail.html

- Sugarcreek Horse Auctions are one of the largest providers of horse meat in the eastern part of the country.

I'm pretty much done talking about how Dale Baird killed thousands of horses. Hell, there are people who still think OJ is innocent, I guess the same can be said of people who think Dale Baird didn't send horses to slaughter.

And all this has to do with Boris how, exactly?

[On the Farm]

I agree that most do respect their horses.

Nobody is jumping to conclusions. Facts:
- Dale Baird put horses on a van driven by Dick Rudibaugh on many occasions.

- Dick Rudibaugh provided "van service" to Sugarcreek horse auctions. "...Dick Rudibaugh is known as the meat man..."
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/744847/detail.html

- Sugarcreek Horse Auctions are one of the largest providers of horse meat in the eastern part of the country.

I'm pretty much done talking about how Dale Baird killed thousands of horses. Hell, there are people who still think OJ is innocent, I guess the same can be said of people who think Dale Baird didn't send horses to slaughter.

If you feel so strongly, maybe you should have taken the issue up with DB while he was alive.

That being said, I'm certainly glad the true facts surrounding the CT horse have been communicated.

[bobbybobby]

please lets stay on the right topic

[Norcrest]

Coolmeadows..thank you for setting the record straight! I am glad to hear that he is casted and leaving the track..hope he lives a long life as a pasture pet.

[Coyoteco]

Hmm. I suppose I am the only one who has a problem with the fact that the horse had to walk off of the track because if the ambulance took it, it would have been killed. At least, that appears to be what the trainer thought.
No one faults that policy?
I repeat, and this is based only on reading this thread, but still it appears that the injured horse had to walk back to the barn because it could not get a ride in the ambulance without being killed over the trainer's objection.
*That* is the shocking thing in this situation.

[Laurierace]

Hmm. I suppose I am the only one who has a problem with the fact that the horse had to walk off of the track because it the ambulance took it, it would have been killed. At least, that appears to be what the trainer though.
No one faults that policy?
I repeat, and this is based only on reading this thread, but still it appears that the injured horse had to walk back to the barn because it could not get a ride in the ambulance without being killed over the trainer's objection.
*That* is the shocking thing in this situation.

That is not the slightest bit true. They can not euthanize a horse against your will. Just because the trainer may not have been aware of that does not make it true.

[Coyoteco]

Perhaps, but it seemed to be what he thought and it appears from this thread that he would have had a lot of pressure to do that even if they couldn't technically do it over his objection. I've seen authroities kill over owner's objections before and "ooops" doesn't help a dead animal.
Another problem that I see in this thread is that it *appears* that there was significant pressure for him to move the horse before it was sufficiently stable.
Hopefully, that isn't the way it really was, but it certainly looks that way from this thread.

[CoolMeadows]

Hmm. I suppose I am the only one who has a problem with the fact that the horse had to walk off of the track because if the ambulance took it, it would have been killed. At least, that appears to be what the trainer thought.
No one faults that policy?
I repeat, and this is based only on reading this thread, but still it appears that the injured horse had to walk back to the barn because it could not get a ride in the ambulance without being killed over the trainer's objection.
*That* is the shocking thing in this situation.

I might be wrong, but I don't believe the vet has the right to euthanize a horse with a slab fracture without permission. A compound fracture, yes, but a slab - no I don't think so. As far as the horse being killed in the ambulance, that was *not* a reason that Boris gave me for not trying to load the horse up the ramp. Another poster here has said she's heard that someone else heard that's what he said. I only know what he told me directly. At any rate, it's over, the horse never had an injury that would allow a vet to euthanize without permission and we can all hope that Oskar K has as easy a recovery as possible and is happy and comfortable in retirement.

[Coyoteco]

I At any rate, it's over, the horse never had an injury that would allow a vet to euthanize without permission and we can all hope that Oskar K has as easy a recovery as possible and is happy and comfortable in retirement.

I agree. I hope he has an easy recovery and happy retirement and I applaud his trainer for standing up for him and not being so quick to kill him.

[RidersUP]

O.K. here's the deal....I am stabled in the barn with Oscar K......The owner did in fact do something seriously wrong by walking the horse home no doubt...and due to the fact that people like him are not educated, he believed that if he loaded the horse on the ambulance they would imediately euthanize him ( not true, but what he believed) The owner raised that horse from the mamma...As of 5-4-08the horse is in the stall resting comfortably...has been x-rayed....and putting light pressure on the right fore leg that is bandaged properly in a spider and standing bandage for support...See what happens when you just educate people..The horse has never once been down in the stall...a slab fracture...but not compound...

As far as the comments about Dale Baird..google his name, Not one article tells you what a horse killing con man he is. But they all do state that he was the all time winningist trainer in the U.S. The DRF, ESPN they all say the same...The man with the all time most wins in the history of T.B. racing...wouldn't mind being able to put that on my belt.

[CoolMeadows]

O.K. here's the deal....I am stabled in the barn with Oscar K......The owner did in fact do something seriously wrong by walking the horse home no doubt...and due to the fact that people like him are not educated, he believed that if he loaded the horse on the ambulance they would imediately euthanize him ( not true, but what he believed) The owner raised that horse from the mamma...As of 5-4-06 the horse is in the stall resting comfortably...has been x-rayed....and putting light pressure on the right fore leg that is bandaged properly in a spider and standing bandage for support...See what happens when you just educate people..The horse has never once been down in the stall...a slab fracture...but not compound...

As far as the comments about Dale Baird..google his name, Not one article tells you what a horse killing con man he is. But they all do state that he was the all time winningist trainer in the U.S. The DRF, ESPN they all say the same...The man with the all time most wins in the history of T.B. racing...wouldn't mind being able to put that on my belt.

Thanks for posting RidersUp. So Oskar wasn't moved today?

[RidersUP]

You may not believe this one but, Boris had a hearing with the Stewards today, Boris informed me they told him the state vet would be down to euthanize the horse after the last race today. When Boris commented that they had no right they showed Boris a rule in the W.V. Rules of racing that stated different...I had a horse in today, before I went up Boris's horse was in the stall actually looking very good for a horse with that type of injury...at that time they were discussing trying to move the horse before the last race but I had to leave so I am not sure what happened after that, but I do know Boris said as well as as that horse was doing he was not going to let them put him down.

[CoolMeadows]

Oh no! I hope the pressure from people calling nonstop didn't play a part in that decision. :( Poor Boris and poor Oskar. The woman I spoke to this morning said he was going to be moved today and that it was for the best since the phones were ringing off the hook with people insisting the horse be killed. Isn't that an unusual rule to allow them to euthanize a horse that's being treated and apparently, by your account at least, is doing pretty well?

[Coyoteco]

I wish I could say that I am surprised. See, if he had let that horse have a ride on that ambulance, they would have killed it. I was pretty sure he was right about that. It's just the way things work.
I'll contain my profanity here. They caused that horse to have to walk lame back to the barn. They will now kill it unless Boris will get himself an attorney to stop them.
There was so much outrage against the trainer for not using the ambulance. Then there was so much outrage against the trainer for not killing the horse.
Where is the outrage now?

[regret]

I wish I could say that I am surprised. See, if he had let that horse have a ride on that ambulance, they would have killed it. I was pretty sure he was right about that. It's just the way things work.
I'll contain my profanity here. They caused that horse to have to walk lame back to the barn. They will now kill it unless Boris will get himself an attorney to stop them.
There was so much outrage against the trainer for not using the ambulance. Then there was so much outrage against the trainer for not killing the horse.
Where is the outrage now?

It is only a Race Horse being killed, so why should people get upset? (sarcasm dripping).

[Coyoteco]

Do you people who want every horse killed have somthing like "notches on you gunbelt" for evey one you get killed? Like the gunslingers of the old west.
You may have a new notch for it tonihgt.
You fought so hard to get this horse killed when you don't care about the horse, you don't know the horse, you had no idea of its condition or its will to live. The only happy horse is a dead horse.

[Sabine]

reading this thread makes me think I am stuck between the NOW and the middle ages- and I was just going to scan some posts...and got stuck in this mess.

Racing needs a serious overhaul- all around- the laws, the education of the folks involved etc..rules of the weight of exercise riders and on and on...

Hope Oskar makes it- his owner sounds like a cool dude that knows his shit...sad that so many possibilities of saving a young horse like that are not used.
Regarding Dale- I have no comment- I think he will get his deserved justice- somewhere- wherever that may be....

[Coyoteco]

It is only a Race Horse being killed, so why should people get upset? (sarcasm dripping).

Yeah, and the only happy horse is a dead horse as I said in my previous post.

This is so outrageous. It is animal cruelty that the track prevented the horse from riding the ambulence, It is animal cruelty that the track stewards were trying to make him move the horse before the horse's condition warranted moving. It is animal cruelty that the horse is killed over the owner's objection. It is cruelty to the owenver who loves it that his horse is being INhumaenly killed. This is a terrible situation, potentially created in large part by one or more people from this bulleting board.

[rigoletto]

The conflicting reports are mind blowing. The assistant racing secretary and someone else who is supposed to be stabled in the same barn as Boris said that the horse has a double slab fracture and that his leg was done up with duct tape at one o'clock this afternoon. Boris was not told he had to euthanize the horse, but to get him to a clinic for evaluation. Again, this is what I was told - I hope the horse is in a clinic somewhere and not hobbling around a field.

As far as the horse being put down if he was put on the ambulance after the race, that's what Boris was afraid of, but it's unlikely it would happen without his permission. Charlestown is so worried about their breakdown rate that they refuse to euthanize horses that clearly need to be put down (this information came straight from the HBPA.)

It seems that it is difficult, if not impossible, to get clear information from anyone at the track. Speak to 3 different people an get 3 different stories. Also, the people in the office at Charlestown have been instructed that, if people call, act sympathetic, listen to what they have to say and get off the phone as fast as possible. Nice.

[CoolMeadows]

Jeez... you're not kidding about tough to get a straight story! Fingers crossed that Oskar is well tonight. Hopefully the people in Boris' barn can give us real updates since I don't really want to bother Boris again when I'm sure he's incredibly stressed.

[Coyoteco]

The conflicting reports are mind blowing. The assistant racing secretary and someone else who is supposed to be stabled in the same barn as Boris said that the horse has a double slab fracture and that his leg was done up with duct tape at one o'clock this afternoon. Boris was not told he had to euthanize the horse, but to get him to a clinic for evaluation. Again, this is what I was told - I hope the horse is in a clinic somewhere and not hobbling around a field.

As far as the horse being put down if he was put on the ambulance after the race, that's what Boris was afraid of, but it's unlikely it would happen without his permission. Charlestown is so worried about their breakdown rate that they refuse to euthanize horses that clearly need to be put down (this information came straight from the HBPA.)

It seems that it is difficult, if not impossible, to get clear information from anyone at the track. Speak to 3 different people an get 3 different stories. Also, the people in the office at Charlestown have been instructed that, if people call, act sympathetic, listen to what they have to say and get off the phone as fast as possible. Nice.

So, if you don't know what you are talking about, why, why, why have you solicited people to call into the track stewards to get this horse killed? And why have they followed you like stupid sheep?

[regret]

So, if you don't know what you are talking about, why, why, why have you solicited people to call into the track stewards to get this horse killed? And why have they followed you like stupid sheep?

In my opinion, it is because it is easier to believe that someone who owns or trains a Race Horse is going to be cruel to it, rather then finding out the truth.

[rigoletto]

In my opinion, it is because it is easier to believe that someone who owns or trains a Race Horse is going to be cruel to it, rather then finding out the truth.


FYI, my husband was a trainer and we have both worked in the Thoroughbred industry, both on and off the track, for a very long time. Still do. I also happen to volunteer just about full time in rescue. I've also worked hard to find the truth in this issue. I did not say I wanted this horse dead. I said I wanted the trainer to do the right thing. Big difference. You all seem to be jumping to conclusions. I happen to love racing when it's done right.

Why don't you guys go back to defending Dale Baird now?

[YankeeLawyer]

I don't understand why they would force the horse to be transported to a clinic in his condition, unless they could not diagnose and treat the problem onsite. Or stated otherwise, it appears they are more concerned about poor publicity than the welfare of the horse.

[SleepyFox]

So, if you don't know what you are talking about, why, why, why have you solicited people to call into the track stewards to get this horse killed? And why have they followed you like stupid sheep?

Exactly.

This really is turning into a horrifying incident.

[caffeinated]

You all seem to be jumping to conclusions.

Lots of conclusions being jumped to, on all "sides" here.

[Coyoteco]

Any news on whether this horse was killed?
I'd appreciate if someone could let us know what happened to him.

[CoolMeadows]

Boris' phone went straight to voicemail this morning and I left a message for Denny at CT.

[CoolMeadows]

Boris just called back. Oskar was moved last night. He said he did have a meeting yesterday and was told that the horse would be euthanized after the last race if he wasn't moved off the track and was shown a rule stating they had the right to do so. Boris told them over his dead body and was told that the police would be called, he would be arrested and then they would euthanize Oskar. His daughter has a trailer with a low ramp that Oskar loaded into and Boris rode in the back with him 4 miles to a friend's farm where Oskar is now in a stall. He said he felt that it was very unfair since the horse had a stall at CT, raced at CT, was injured at CT and then was treated like a dog because Boris wanted a couple of weeks with him in that stall before moving him. He said it's very encouraging that Oskar is using the leg and since the horse is now moved, I'll let go that the second vet he said who has seen the X-rays and was asked to consult on this case is Dr. Riddle. As Boris said, this is just a little gelding, not a good racehorse but he loves him and doesn't care that he won't come back to race. He said Oskar is a very happy little horse who enjoys life and that he's still bright eyed and happy. He reiterated that should he go downhill, he will euthanize him but that as of right now he's been getting better by the day. SO, hopefully now that really is the end of the story!

[lcw579]

Oh Thank God! I just read this thread this morning and when I got to the last page .... I was horrified and so worried about Boris and Oscar. So glad to hear that they are getting their happy ending. I hope Oscar continues to improve and has a long life as a pasture ornament.

[Coyoteco]

Thank you.

People are way too quick to euthanize animals. They rationalize that killing of the animal is for the animal's benefit when it is for the human's financial motives and convenience. They villanize those who want to go the extra mile for their animal. When the kill-happy authorities and people cross over to euthanizing someones else's animal they must be stopped. I'm very happy that Boris was able to protect his horse.
Now, the facts are:
The little gelding had to walk from the track or risk being killed - there is no doubt that Boris used good judgment in avoiding the use of the ambulance.
The little gelding had to be moved before he was ready.
They would have jailed the owner and killed the horse.
And some people would have encouraged that - and did encourage that.

There should be outrage against the track because its treatment of the horse *was* cruelty.

[ybiaw]

Boris just called back. Oskar was moved last night. He said he did have a meeting yesterday and was told that the horse would be euthanized after the last race if he wasn't moved off the track and was shown a rule stating they had the right to do so. Boris told them over his dead body and was told that the police would be called, he would be arrested and then they would euthanize Oskar. His daughter has a trailer with a low ramp that Oskar loaded into and Boris rode in the back with him 4 miles to a friend's farm where Oskar is now in a stall. He said he felt that it was very unfair since the horse had a stall at CT, raced at CT, was injured at CT and then was treated like a dog because Boris wanted a couple of weeks with him in that stall before moving him. He said it's very encouraging that Oskar is using the leg and since the horse is now moved, I'll let go that the second vet he said who has seen the X-rays and was asked to consult on this case is Dr. Riddle. As Boris said, this is just a little gelding, not a good racehorse but he loves him and doesn't care that he won't come back to race. He said Oskar is a very happy little horse who enjoys life and that he's still bright eyed and happy. He reiterated that should he go downhill, he will euthanize him but that as of right now he's been getting better by the day. SO, hopefully now that really is the end of the story!

CM - how wonderful of you to keep following up and being so kind to this man. I'm sure he appreciates it, amidst all the drama and conclusion-jumping.

[regret]

Thank you.

People are way too quick to euthanize animals. They rationalize that killing of the animal is for the animal's benefit when it is for the human's financial motives and convenience. They villanize those who want to go the extra mile for their animal. When the kill-happy authorities and people cross over to euthanizing someones else's animal they must be stopped. I'm very happy that Boris was able to protect his horse.
Now, the facts are:
The little gelding had to walk from the track or risk being killed - there is no doubt that Boris used good judgment in avoiding the use of the ambulance.
The little gelding had to be moved before he was ready.
They would have jailed the owner and killed the horse.
And some people would have encouraged that - and did encourage that.

There should be outrage against the track because its treatment of the horse *was* cruelty.

Then these same people complain when a Trainer or Owner tries to save a horse. They call it cruel.

[moonriverfarm]

It is really too bad there aren't more Borises around. At least he cares about more than his horse making money.

[JER]

Boris just called back. Oskar was moved last night. He said he did have a meeting yesterday and was told that the horse would be euthanized after the last race if he wasn't moved off the track and was shown a rule stating they had the right to do so. Boris told them over his dead body and was told that the police would be called, he would be arrested and then they would euthanize Oskar. His daughter has a trailer with a low ramp that Oskar loaded into and Boris rode in the back with him 4 miles to a friend's farm where Oskar is now in a stall. He said he felt that it was very unfair since the horse had a stall at CT, raced at CT, was injured at CT and then was treated like a dog because Boris wanted a couple of weeks with him in that stall before moving him. He said it's very encouraging that Oskar is using the leg and since the horse is now moved, I'll let go that the second vet he said who has seen the X-rays and was asked to consult on this case is Dr. Riddle. As Boris said, this is just a little gelding, not a good racehorse but he loves him and doesn't care that he won't come back to race. He said Oskar is a very happy little horse who enjoys life and that he's still bright eyed and happy. He reiterated that should he go downhill, he will euthanize him but that as of right now he's been getting better by the day. SO, hopefully now that really is the end of the story!

Cool Meadows, thanks for making these calls.

Would it be possible to send a get-well card to Oskar K?

[rigoletto]

It is really too bad there aren't more Borises around. At least he cares about more than his horse making money.


I'm a bit tired of being made out to be the bad guy here. I really was (and still am) hoping the right thing will be done for this horse - and I did not mean that it absolutely had to be euthanasia. He has two fractures in his knee. The person who reported it to me (who spoke with the vet) called it a double slab fracture. I don't know exactly where in the knee joint the fractures are or if they are displaced or nondisplaced, but I do know that this is a serious injury, one that will likely require surgery in order for Oskar to be even pasture sound.

I spoke with two people today who told me that Boris was given two options by CT management for Oskar K. 1) Bring the horse to a clinic for evaluation. 2) Have the track vet examine the horse to determine if he needed euthanasia. At no time was Boris threatened with "forced euthanasia" of his horse or was he told he would be arrested. Does it sound like things suck at CT for the horses and the horsemen. Absolutely. That needs to change in a big way and maybe the only way to change it is to have some attention drawn to it. CT has the highest fatal breakdown rate in the country. Even higher than Mountaineer.

I was told today that Boris and his family have 40 horses on a 4 acre property. Again, I am relying on someone else's word but I have no choice. This person said that they drive by the property every day and the only reason they haven't turned Boris in is because they're afraid that they horses will be sent to slaughter if they're taken away from Boris.

Finally, I am not one to support the arbitrary euthanasia of horses. I spend just about all of my waking hours working at rescuing horses from bad situations all over the country, mostly Thoroughbreds, primarily from auction kill pens. I helped with the six Thoroughbreds that came out of the Sugarcreek auction a couple of weeks ago. One of them belonged to Boris's daughter. She hasn't returned calls to the person who has been trying to talk with her about the horse - the calls were made before the "Oskar K incident." I'm not the enemy in this situation.

[Calamber]

The reason that the horse was not put on the ambulance is because Boris said that he thought they were going to put it down. The reality is that the stewards were not even aware that they could with the track veterinarian determine if the horse needed to be put down or not. That is the role of the track veterinarian, which the stewards were not even aware of until yesterday when they searched the rule book and found it. Some people at the track have been known to allow horses to linger and suffer for a very long time with no indication they were going to be able to afford surgery much less even have the horse evaluated for it. That rule is for the protection of the animal.

The problem is that Charles Town has a practice whereby they are unwilling to put a horse down on the track because that counts against them as far as numbers of fatalities are concerned and also, if the horse is put down in the barn the track pays for half and the owner pays for half. Boris' reasons for keeping the horse alive were solely based on the emotional reaction as he told the person who is stabled next to him, "this horse can live on three legs at my farm." So with that going on in the heat of the moment, you cannot say that he was exactly thinking in a rational manner, the horse had not even been evaluated by a vet, he got him off the track before the track vet got there, and his vet did not even see the horse until Friday, I think it was. The vet said that he did not have to turn the xrays over to the stewards, which I suppose he thinks is within his rights, it is not at many tracks, if a vet refuses to turn over records to the track stewards, they can risk losing their license to practice. This is done for the protection of the animal.

So there are many things going on here, but the main thing is that the track vet, head steward and not a few others, are in the hip pocket of Penn National Gaming Inc. who would really love to see every horse die, since less horses in a race means less purse they have to fork over. For an informative article, go to O'Sullivan Farms website and read the article written by Frank Angst of The Thoroughbred Times, it is an interview with Randy Funkhouser, current head of the HBPA. So, the issue is, will Boris have surgery on the horse, or will he leave it to "heal" on it's own.

Also at issue is the condition of the farm where he keeps far too many horses in rough condition (to be verified) so is in danger of being seen as a hoarder. Some people have a sickness that way, it is hard to let your horses go and some think that keeping them on too small an area with no grass and no place to move around is doing better because after all, they are alive? Well at the stockyards they at least are getting fed to be at good weight, might not be the best intentions and certainly not the end one would want but they are being fed. This is not a black and white situation and the ultimate one so far winning in this situation is certainly not the horses, either for being made to suffer with a crippling injury for the rest of it's life, nor the industry for how inept it seems to be because the purse strings are controlled by those who don't give a fig for anything but the money rolling in from the video gaming terminals, after all they don't eat, don't have manure that needs to be moved and don't require a track to be maintained. I just hope that people do not get manipulated to believe that this is what "love" is all about.

[CoolMeadows]

Hey Rigoletto listen, you and I are on the same side. My intent was to call Borris to offer to buy Oskar and put him down. If what he and the CT rep said was true, euthanasia wasn't necessary. IF Dr. Riddle has seen these X-rays and has given his blessing on the plan of action for the horse, I'm ok with it too.

Can the person who drives by the 4 acres with 40 horses get some pictures with their phone tomorrow? If it's that visible from the road, it shouldn't be too tough to get a couple of shots. It's very upsetting to hear his daugher sent a horse to Sugarcreek. She was the last known owner of the horse? That is really sad and disappointing. I know you're not the bad guy and if you can show me those 40 horses on 4 acres, I'm willing to help with that situation too.

[DickHertz]

So there are many things going on here, but the main thing is that the track vet, head steward and not a few others, are in the hip pocket of Penn National Gaming Inc. who would really love to see every horse die, since less horses in a race means less purse they have to fork over.



Not true. They only pay to six places at Charles Town and there would need to be about 20 breakdowns a night for them to eventually only have five horse fields. Penn Gaming doesn't care about the horses - you are right about that - but the purse payout notion is preposterous.

[rigoletto]

[QUOTE=
Can the person who drives by the 4 acres with 40 horses get some pictures with their phone tomorrow? If it's that visible from the road, it shouldn't be too tough to get a couple of shots. It's very upsetting to hear his daugher sent a horse to Sugarcreek. She was the last known owner of the horse? That is really sad and disappointing. I know you're not the bad guy and if you can show me those 40 horses on 4 acres, I'm willing to help with that situation too.[/QUOTE]

I asked the same thing and hope that photos will be forthcoming. I also asked for an address so someone else can drive by to take photos - I figured two sets taken by different people would be best. I think it'll get done. People can be funny about stuff like this... And yes, the daughter was the last owner of the horse from the Sugarcreek kill pen and she had the horse in her possession (or at least that's what I was told - in this whole mess, I'm now taking everything with a big grain of salt) just days before ending up at Sugarcreek. I make phone calls to former owners, breeders, trainers every Monday about horses at New Holland and the people who care about where their horses end up always return my calls to see if their horse was rescued.

Is the Dr. Riddle referred to in this thread the one in KY or is there a vet with the same name in the CT area? I can't help wondering why, if Boris was truly so concerned about Oskar K, didn't he take him to a clinic to be evaluated? I know it's not easy to get a vet out in that area.

[DickHertz]

Aren't there ordinances about acreage for horses? It is West Virginia so I guess not. I know where I live in PA you have to have five acres to have them, but perhaps I'm the exception and not the rule.

[DickHertz]

I make phone calls to former owners, breeders, trainers every Monday about horses at New Holland and the people who care about where their horses end up always return my calls to see if their horse was rescued.

.

Did Boris' daughter call you back?

[rigoletto]

Did Boris' daughter call you back?

Someone else made the calls to Boris' daughter. Several calls. She didn't return any of them.

[DickHertz]

Instead of the Horse ID erasing trainers names on the front of foal papers everytime there is a switch, I wonder if some horses could be saved if they wrote every trainer who had the horse then you could go down the list until you find one that really does care where they end up.

[rigoletto]

Instead of the Horse ID erasing trainers names on the front of foal papers everytime there is a switch, I wonder if some horses could be saved if they wrote every trainer who had the horse then you could go down the list until you find one that really does care where they end up.

Not a bad idea... I pull race records from DRF.com to see if there is anyone I know who might be sympathetic to the horse's plight, but it would be a lot easier to have the names written down somewhere. And a lot less expensive given the number of pps I pull in a given week.

[YankeeLawyer]

What is wrong with you people? You find out that the original story about Boris was not quite true, so now the discussion shifts to how he and his family keep horses elsewhere?? and you are encouraging people to take photographs of his home-- to do what, post here so you can criticize those also? Why not leave the guy alone, for God's sake.

News flash: while I don't advocate keeping 40 horses on 4 acres, even if there is some grain of truth to that allegation, in places like Southern California people do manage to take care of a ridiculous amount of horses on similarly small acreage. It is not ideal, and not the way I would ever do things, but it is not necessarily cruel in any way, depending on how it is done. So why not mind your own Ps and Qs or look for someone else to malign?

[Calamber]

Yankee Lawyer, this is not Southern California and these horses are not being cared for properly, in addition he has stallions in the mix so is most likely still breeding and cannot care for the ones he has.

[Calamber]

DickHertz, there are other "restrictions" being practiced to narrow the fields, breakdowns are but one of them. Shall I tell you about the horse that was bred locally, can beat every three year old at the track but was kept out of the race because one of the most prominent farms in the area has another stranglehold on some of the very same people, ie, the ones whose authority it is to place entries in the same race? You need to know more of what goes on, on the inside of this track, I do know, I have worked there inside and out and have friends who suffer at the hands of the good ole boy networks and PNGI. Besides the fact that fair competition is not allowed when it is the big money races, does that sound like the way you think the industry should be run?

[J Swan]

I think it's pretty freakin' scary that y'all are actually planning to stalk and harass this person.

If someone has personally witnessed neglected animals - that person should contact Animal Control and report it.

Put away your torches and pitchforks.

[Cielo Azure]

This is scary, you guys or your associates are TALKING to his or even the track vet and this it none of your busines (client confideniality is being broken). The owner has been respinsible, has not broken any laws and has behaved ethically in the eyes of the officials at the track.

The horse was in fit enough condition to race. It must have have gone through vet checks in order to race. Your initial story was WRONG and yet you continue to harrass the track, the DVMs involved, and this man and now his family (multiple calls to his daughter, for instance).

Now you have a STORY about overcrowding and it is based on????? You are basing your evidence on only rumors of overcrowding. Again, second or third hand stories.

This is your evidence??? "lso at issue is the condition of the farm where he keeps far too many horses in rough condition (to be verified) so is in danger of being seen as a hoarder."

If someone ever showed up at my farm to verify the condition of my horses so that they can post things about me on COTH, I would a) call the cops for trespassing 2) contact my attorney about liable and 3) contact COTH about abuse. I hope he does the same.

Again, What is wrong with you people????

If the racing forum is just to be used as a way for AR to track and harrass horse owners, that is a very sorry state of affairs for COTH and maybe this forum should be done away with.

Racing is not my thing but what is going on here is just wrong.

[Moderator 1]

We appreciate the efforts made on all sides to clear up any confusion about these issues, but this board is not the appropriate avenue for addressing specific suspected abuse cases.

If someone suspects an individual of abuse or other illegal activities, contact the proper authorities. The COTH board does not support the spreading of unsubstantiated allegations against named individuals.

Thanks,
Mod 1