Broodmare Naturally Weaning Yearling

[aspenlucas]

Ok I have a question I guess if anyone else has had this happen. Now before you preach to me if the mare did not do this I was going to wean him this week. I had a TB mare that has had MANY foals, she's had four Cleveland Bay crosses for me. Her now two year old we left on her for quite some time, maybe 8 months and then weaned by putting Tristan in the big stall by the run in during the day and putting the foal in there at night. So swapping them. She foaled May 5th last year with a colt. The mare was such a good momma and continued to be in superior weight. We left the colt on her through the winter, even last fall we would see the 1 1/2 year old filly nursing once in a while from her out in the field.

So I got to wondering, colt still on her. She is due May 20th, would she wean the foal. We've noticed lately she won't let Garrett nurse. And just in the last two weeks, her milk turned from milky creamy white to watery again. So is this something that a mare will do naturally? If they don't do it how would that affect the new foals cholostrum? I can only imagine in the wild some mares will let foals nurse for two years. Will they naturally shun them away and then allow them back on?

Please keep it related to nursing foals. I don't need to be preached over the colt/gelding or the filly.

[Ladybug Hill]

I doubt you will get many answers here, because most folks just are not able to manage horses in this way. Most mares would either not hold weight well or the owner does not want to have a nursing foal for that long or whatever. I think that it would be interesting to study the effects of late weaning on overall temperament--more confident or less. I think we are too anxious to wean early sometimes.

[aspenlucas]

or the owner does not want to have a nursing foal for that long or whatever. I think that it would be interesting to study the effects of late weaning on overall temperament--more confident or less. I think we are too anxious to wean early sometimes.

I will agree with that. I used to wean normally at three months, trying to sell the foals quickly and usually doing so. However last year I had five foals. I kept Garrett on his momma and noticed how nice he looked. He was healthier, happier, more confident, etc. I wonder how it helps with lack of ulcers, etc. I think this year I will try harder to manage my broodmares better, feed more often, etc, do what I need to help them keep weight on. This mare is a mare that raced for five years and has had at least 8 foals, she's an 18 year old mare, not the easiest keeper but staying in excellent condition on about 8-10 lbs of grain a day. Not bad for a mare due in 2 weeks.

[pintopiaffe]

I think that it would be interesting to study the effects of late weaning on overall temperament--more confident or less.

There was a study, ages ago. I want to say cited in Practical Horseman, but could be wrong. (I never subscribed to Equus, so if I caught it there, that was random)

The gist of it was that earlier weaned foals are more human oriented and 'get along' with more people better. Look to the human for confidence. Later weaned are more independent thinkers, more self-confident, and seem to only bond with one person (at a time)

That's a fairly broad generalization of the study--and I'm sure individuals vary beyond the 'typical', but you can see where both types of personality traits are more useful or more valued in different applications.

I've got a mare who is sidling up to the pipe paddock to let her soon-to-be yearling daughter nurse through the fence. :uhoh: She's let other mare's foals nurse on her before, and I believe she would adopt orphans in a heartbeat. But it's really silly, since daughter is almost as tall as Mum. And Mum is NOT holding her weight, needs to be in better bloom coming into breeding season with the stress of trailering and boarding for AI... at the tender age of 21... but... not a heck of a lot I can do about it at the moment. I know they will be COMPLETELY weaned when Mum leaves to board for breeding. :sigh:

[dbaygirl]

Wow, this sure is a timely post for me. I was feeling so guilty for allowing my 18 yr old pregnant mare in with her 11 month old filly. I've been TRYING to wean but the weather has been so rotten here, cold and rainy, that often times when I leave for work, I have to leave mare in paddock with run in shelter with filly. I did manage to separate them for 12 hours at a time previous to this. (I am working on more shelters...) My vet was kind of appalled that the filly went to Mom for a drink after receiving her first shots. She commented on what a "nice Mom" she was to do that. But, she would rather the filly be totally weaned. I am trying to do the best I can what with the rotten Spring we are having. So, I was thinking that in the wild, what happens? My mare doesn't have that big of a bag anymore but she still has some milk for the filly and I don't see her drinking that often anymore. It looks crazy, as the filly is very tall for her age and has to really go upsdie down to get any milk. My question too is, will she bag up bigger again before the foal is born and kick the filly off naturally? I plan to have the filly totally separated by then. But IF they were allowed together, I'm wondering how the mare would handle Baby #1. I have seen her biting at the filly to keep her away from her hay the odd time. Maybe that is the beginning of natural weaning? She is an amazing mother, that is for sure. She has good weight on. I separate them when I feed her grain and alfalfa.
As for confidence, this filly is amazing. She is much more sensible about new things and leaving the herd than her mother. I have a feeling that her mother was weaned too early. Frankly, I feel that weaning at three months is mean. They are such babies at that age. Not to mention the mothers losing them. I think they do gain more confidence from retaining family ties.

[ise@ssl]

Am I ready this right - you have your mare out with her 2007 colt and there's a coming 2 yo filly in the same field? Are you kidding! That colt can breed the filly.

He's a yearling - pull him off her and give her a break before she foals the next foal - and get him away from the filly.

[aspenlucas]

Am I ready this right - you have your mare out with her 2007 colt and there's a coming 2 yo filly in the same field? Are you kidding! That colt can breed the filly.

He's a yearling - pull him off her and give her a break before she foals the next foal - and get him away from the filly.

Maybe you didn't read, he IS now weaned. His mom weaned him. And yes he is out with his two year old sister, along with a mare with her foal, five other mares getting ready to foal, a five year old mare and a tease pony stallion. You must not have ever witnessed herd dynamics. Do you think colts are kicked out on their own before they are one? Do you think they breed the mares? I'm not trying to be ignorant. But to put it in perspective it's the difference between a balanced pack of dogs and a pack of dogs. My horses have lived this way for years and years, as a natural herd. They have things figured out. And to separate him and make him be alone right now really isn't the right thing to do.

[ise@ssl]

Lucky you - and I mean lucky - I know many cases where people did this and ended up with mares (in one case 3 boarders show mares) in foal by a just coming yearling.

[Jasmine]

I love this BB. It's given me such a list of breeders to do business with. And those to avoid.

[Ladybug Hill]

I agree that many of us would not feel safe managing a year old colt this way, but herd dynamics would likely keep him in line. If she has had success managing this way, maybe we should not criticize? There is absolutely not one way to manage horses.

I often wonder about the farms that separate by age and gender. I think this is amazingly unnatural. I like my mixed herd of fillies/mares and occasional gelding of all ages. The older horses teach the youngsters so much. I think it is also healthier for horses to grow up through a variety of "pecking orders" in the herd. As foals/weanlings/yearlings they are on the bottom, but as they grow and younger horses come in, they take a role of dominance over them. Teaches them to be submissive and dominant in different situations which I think increases confidence.

Now my only concern would be the tease pony. I know that mares have gotten bred by very very short ponies, but if the risk is low then it might be an acceptable way to manage her herd.

[RTBSH]

I weaned my colt this year at 5 months because Momma went to the trainers and my filly at nine months. While there personalities are similar, in that they are both all over me, she is certainly more developed than he is, although she is about 3 weeks younger. When I put them back in with her mom (his grand dam) after three weeks, they (she would sometimes let Fiato, the colt (now gelding) nurse) attempted to drink, but where quickly shrugged off by the mare. I had many people out here (south dakota) try to push me to wean at three months, which I have always felt hesitant about, unless it must be done. The filly is very confident, but Pablo foals are known to be so. The mare is not in foal again, but I have had no problem keeping weight on her while she was nursing. I do think I read somewhere that in the wild, mares will wean their babies off at about 1.5 years, even if they have had another foal.

[aspenlucas]

I agree that many of us would not feel safe managing a year old colt this way, but herd dynamics would likely keep him in line. If she has had success managing this way, maybe we should not criticize? There is absolutely not one way to manage horses.

I often wonder about the farms that separate by age and gender. I think this is amazingly unnatural. I like my mixed herd of fillies/mares and occasional gelding of all ages. The older horses teach the youngsters so much. I think it is also healthier for horses to grow up through a variety of "pecking orders" in the herd. As foals/weanlings/yearlings they are on the bottom, but as they grow and younger horses come in, they take a role of dominance over them. Teaches them to be submissive and dominant in different situations which I think increases confidence.

Now my only concern would be the tease pony. I know that mares have gotten bred by very very short ponies, but if the risk is low then it might be an acceptable way to manage her herd.

Yeah the point of the thread wasn't about the colt or not, heck I didn't even ever state if he was gelded yet. This is a closed herd of my own stock. The mares are all bred except one mare that is 16.2. If that tease pony can get on that mare I'd be surprised or the colt for that matter. The colt is small and the filly is by a pure CB so she is huge, 16.1 already. The only real risk I guess would be the colt breeding the filly, but again, I guess I never really thought about that as the tease pony stallion won't let any young colt near them. At age one which little Garrett will be soon, he'll move to the other farm and be turned out with the herd of riding geldings. They have raised all my colts with great success, but I normally don't move them til one year of age so they have the mares bringing them up when they are young. But then again, this thread wasn't to preach about colts and fillies it was intended to ask if anyone had a mare that naturally weaned a foal. I can tell most of this board or at least readers of this are full of people who yank babies off the mares at 3 months of age.

[Jasmine]

Don't let size fool you. My grandfather's mini teaser stallion managed to impregnate his 16 hand Appendix QH mare. She laid down in the field for the little guy to have his fun. Poor foal was the ugliest thing I've ever seen.

[aspenlucas]

Don't let size fool you. My grandfather's mini teaser stallion managed to impregnate his 16 hand Appendix QH mare. She laid down in the field for the little guy to have his fun. Poor foal was the ugliest thing I've ever seen.


Yes I've heard the same stories, but we intentionally bred this tease stallion to a 13.2 hand mare and it took us days to get her covered. I bought him a 10 hand pony mare and he refused to breed her, he just doesn't "get it". I've had him for six years now and his idea of the deed....is just yelling for two minutes and walking away. He is by far the best guy I've ever owned for that fact. When we bred the 13.2 hand mare we had to put her in a trench and hubby had to hold him. However once the mares foal he is separated so that he can tease through the round pen but can't impregnate any of the mares.

[f4leggin]

"I can tell most of this board or at least readers of this are full of people who yank babies off the mares at 3 months of age."

Please don't get angry.. I'm pretty sure that based on the responses - this wasn't the majority...

For the record, I wean around 6-8 months - depending on how old they are at their fall approvals - I always wait until after that - and do it soon after that - the foals show themselves better with their Mom's I think.

I raise beef cattle, this is my first year with yearlings & pregnant Moms - I didn't wean - I know I should have. Don't see yearlings nursing sucessfully (cows kick them off) but I did see a new calf nursing on a yearling heifer the other day - and she let him. But then again, cows have 4 teats (at least) and calves are good at sneaking up from behind and grabbing a quick drink from ANY cow in the pasture.

Jill

[DownYonder]

A warmblood breeder friend of mine here in Georgia maintains a natural herd. She has a 4 y/o Sandro Hit daughter that she left with her dam in the field. I don't think she rebred the mare the year the Sandro Hit filly was born, but she did breed her the next year. The mare weaned the SH filly naturally, but I don't know if the filly was a yearling or if she was still trying to nurse as a 2 y/o. I *think* the breeder also left the second filly (by Royal Prince) with the mare - that filly is now a 2 y/o.

A bit off topic - but this same breeder also has a separate mareband that lives with her licensed Westfalen stallion. They live in a 60 acre pasture and he breeds them naturally. The stallion and his mares and foals have a very close relationship and are very affectionate with each other, often laying down very close to each other, nuzzling each other, etc. He watches over his foals like any good father would, but the breeder pulls the youngsters out of the field as they start to approach an age where the stallion would feel threatened by the boys or sexually interested in the girls.

[ise@ssl]

Some people who lived near us did this "natural herd" concept of leaving fillies with mares and their other foals and I can tell you pulling those fillies away from their mare and siblings at 3 or 4 years of age was a HUGE challenge. In a couple cases it was just dangerous. One boy who wasn't cut became very territorial and kicked the woman who owned them over the fence and broke her pelvis. I had to feed there one time and he was very threatening and I certainly didn't trust him.

People are certainly free to do what they want to but we have to SELL these horses to people and it's been our personal experience that HANDLNG them daily is a giant step in their training. We wean between 6 and 8 months and usually do it putting the mares side by side in a stall with the foal for a few days and then they are moved to separate barns & turn out areas. We do put our foals in stalls for part of the day (or night) and if they are small we put 2 together. We feel if they are going to be riding horses - they aren't going to live out 24/7 and should become comfortable with being in a stall from day one.

And NEVER say never that a small stallion can't breed a mare of ANY size. And just because a stallion doesn't settle one mare doesn't mean he won't settle others.

[DownYonder]

Some people who lived near us did this "natural herd" concept of leaving fillies with mares and their other foals and I can tell you pulling those fillies away from their mare and siblings at 3 or 4 years of age was a HUGE challenge.

Umm, the breeder I mentioned pulled her 2 y/o Sandro Hit filly out of the field, had a trainer work with her for about a week, and then took her to a USDF breed show - where she easily won her filly class with an 84.2% and was named Y/H Champion and Reserve Grand Champion. She behaved like an old pro through the whole thing.

The next year, this breeder pulled her stallion out of the field where he had been living with his mares for the past three years, put him in training for two weeks, and then took him to a breed show, where he was named Champion Stallion and also won his Materiale class with an 80%. He behaved like a perfect gentleman the whole time - very quiet and easy.

I guess this lady's program is working OK for her. ;)

[ise@ssl]

Chris - I only posted what I saw. And while there are the cases where people pull them out of the fields and head to shows - there are far more that get to the shows and have complete meltdowns. We see them at our inspections and it does get dangerous.

To each his own for breeding and rearing.

[aspenlucas]

The next year, this breeder pulled her stallion out of the field where he had been living with his mares for the past three years, put him in training for two weeks, and then took him to a breed show, where he was named Champion Stallion and also won his Materiale class with an 80%. He behaved like a perfect gentleman the whole time - very quiet and easy.


My stallion also lives out with two or three of MY mares. I let him naturally cover SELECT mares, and everything else is bred in hand. We time these mares so he always has companionship. The mares are pulled from the field a month before foaling as this field is on a hill and not foal friendly, plus we like to be there at the birthing. I can take my stallion from the field and put him on the trailer and take him to a show anytime. He could care less. I can breed in hand with him with a cotton lead rope. If the mare teases in heat but isn't standing, I can pull him away with a cotton lead. It takes two of us to breed, not a huge army. However I've had him since he was born and our relationship is pretty special.

Just because my horses live in a natural herd doesn't mean mine don't come in either. I have stalls attached to my run in and at any time I put them in over night in separate stalls so they learn. Last night I had Tristan the mare in the stall for the night. Neither foal tried to nurse in the morning and her bag was no bigger, so I guess she did indeed wean him for the time being. For me this is just an amazing and neat group of horses to watch. To see how they naturally are with each other. I also have yet to have "mare fights" or problem mares. They just seem to be a happy bunch of animals.

[carolprudm]

Maybe you didn't read, he IS now weaned. His mom weaned him. And yes he is out with his two year old sister, along with a mare with her foal, five other mares getting ready to foal, a five year old mare and a tease pony stallion. You must not have ever witnessed herd dynamics. Do you think colts are kicked out on their own before they are one? Do you think they breed the mares? I'm not trying to be ignorant. But to put it in perspective it's the difference between a balanced pack of dogs and a pack of dogs. My horses have lived this way for years and years, as a natural herd. They have things figured out. And to separate him and make him be alone right now really isn't the right thing to do.
Maybe your colt won't breed your filly. I know my yearling colt most certainly did after clearing 2 4 foot fences. Luckily he was shooting blanks and was promptly gelded. He was in a pasture with two older geldings.