Can Contuccis jump??

[ruffey001]

I'm considering breeding my mare to Contucci in the hopes of producing a nice show hunter. I've known a number of Contuccis and love their temperaments, trainability and movement. However, of those that I've seen jumping (only 3), their skills and form were only so-so. I know Contucci himself performed only ok during the jumping portion of his inspection, but my mare is an excellent jumper and has produced 3 other foals who can really jump (but the stallions were pretty solid jumpers themselves). My mare can use the movement and I've been told that a stallion's jumping score is reflective of "jumper" potential (in that a lower score may actually be better for the softer jump that you'd like to see in a hunter). Does anybody have a good jumping Contucci and should I take a chance on this? Thanks!!!

[charlieo]

I bred to Contucci twice with a TB mare with jumping lines. Both red fillies (now mares) jump -- when I say jump, I mean good form and suitable for the 3' divisions. Would they do more -- I guess, never tried. Both were brave and forward. I'd say take a chance.

[Spectrum]

Honestly, for the price I think there are far better (and proven) stallions on the market.

I'm personally not a Contucci fan. All the young Contuccis I have seen have been total di*k-heads to deal with and train- not the type of horses that flourish well with your average amateur owner, at least not until they're grown up. I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but considering that you don't know how he would be for form, combined with the temperament he passes on I would select a different stallion.

If you want something that moves really well and can jump, try some of the R-line and D-line dressage hannoverians. Many of them are showing great promise as hunter sires both in movement and form over fences. And the temperament in those lines is much better in my opinion.

Spectrum.

[3Dogs]

my red pen comes out from hiding :lol:

"can" jump? - well, sure, most horses "can" - :winkgrin:

Have only seen one Contucci offspring jump - was not impressed (for hunters OR jumpers) but didn't expect to be - not the strength of the breeding. But, I did not know the offspring's dam -

[monami]

I have seen one that jumped fairly well and looked quiet enough and moved really well. But you may just be breeding on 'hope' with him.

I am a big fan of Donatelli who has just switched from being a Grand Prix dressage horse to the hunters at Dreamscape Farm. He had only been jumping courses for 1 or 2 weeks and at his first show was 2nd o/f and won the hack (no surprise there as he moves like a freak) out of 90 horses. If you email the farm I am sure they will be happy to send you the video. He reliably passes on type, movement and a fantastic temperament and has very good jumping scores in his 100 day test. Will he produce a Grand Prix jumper... probably not.. but on a mare that jumps well herself I think he is a good bet.

[Therese]

I only have experience with one Contucci mare out of a Riverman (Grey Holst at Hill Top) daughter.

She jumped with dropped knees and very poor form. I tried a few cross rails and deep "x" and she never got the idea to lift her shoulder. Definitely a dressage horse. Did not get her momma's dads form.

[ruffey001]

I mistakenly posted this thread twice. Therese posted a reply to my other duplicate thread and said that she tried a Contucci (out of a Riverman mare) who couldn't lift his shoulder when jumping. Unfortunately, that was what I saw as well of the Contuccis jumping. They generally pin not so bad because of their nice way of going, but the actual jumping mechanism is weak. Thanks everyone - I really appreciate it!!!

[goodmorning]

Will he produce a Grand Prix jumper... probably not.. but on a mare that jumps well herself I think he is a good bet.

Lol, I think he did, or there's something to that effect on their website.

Donarweiss is another one to look at who moves and jumps well, Davingport, and DaCaprio if the mare is very strong behind.

[Moderator 1]

We merged your threads. :)

[talloaks]

I believe you have to know the mare you are breeding. One of my mares bred to Contucci is a Furioso II grand daughter and she can jump the moon!! Her son will be coming out in the A hunter shows this year and is expected to do really well. This mare was bred to A Fine Romance and the yearling is headed for hunter breeding and then the hunters too. This year I am breeding the mare to Donarweiss and expect the same of that foal.
On the other hand, I bred my big dressage mare to Contucci and have a lovely big dressage mare who I would never ask to jump. Her dam, even though she was Dutch Olympic Ahorn had the most fabulous movement I had seen so I bred her daughter for dressage and the daughter is the one carrying the Quaterback foal. Its important to breed type to type to stack the deck in your favor. JMHO FWIW;)

[varider30]

I just start putting my Contucci (5 yrs) over fences last summer and he jumps in very good form...and LOVES it. I also know of another Contucci who is also very nice over fences, and is being trained as a show hunter.

And to Spectrum and your comment about Contucci's being "dickheads", I've personally dealt with 6 Contucci babies and have not had your experience. I think the far greater theme is that they are typically quite "easy"...and I can think of stallions who produce many more "monsters" than he.

[tri]

I don't know about the temperment issue but I wouldn't take the chance based on what you said your goals are. This is in no way a bash against the stallion. If you do the breeding, what you are hoping for is that the mare gives the foal her jump which she may do, but why roll that dice?

There are stallions that have produced lovely hunters consistently and with great temperments, style, etc. I have known several Davignports who have been fabulous hunters and NOT just in the 3' division which is ho hum. They have had great brains, smart and easy to train to boot, going to show grounds they have never been to and jumping around perfectly without even schooling the jumps beforehand. I sold one last summer and have the trainer calling and asking if I have any more.

[sporthorsefilly]

I believe that on the flyer for Contucci, it specifically says that he isn't recommended as a jumping sire!

I have to agree with the person who said that for the price there are other sires out there.

Horses like: Popeye K; Ironman; Cunningham; Alla Czar; Jupiter, etc who are themselves top hunters and/or have produced top hunters. Also look at the nice horses that Nokomis Farms has at stud http://www.nokomisfarm.us/id1.html Their young sire, Winston is a gorgeous Oldenburg, tops in Hunter Breeding!

I also believe that Rosenthal is producing nice hunters.

[talloaks]

I believe that on the flyer for Contucci, it specifically says that he isn't recommended as a jumping sire!

I have to agree with the person who said that for the price there are other sires out there.

Horses like: Popeye K; Ironman; Cunningham; Alla Czar; Jupiter, etc who are themselves top hunters and/or have produced top hunters. Also look at the nice horses that Nokomis Farms has at stud http://www.nokomisfarm.us/id1.html Their young sire, Winston is a gorgeous Oldenburg, tops in Hunter Breeding!

I also believe that Rosenthal is producing nice hunters.

Wonder why Winston at Nokomis Farm would have American Warmblood and Oldenburger papers?? Are they both registration papers?? I thought that was illegal???

[Ride'emCO]

My Contucci kid can jump. He's a hunter and jumps in lovely form. He's also completely honest, and will give his 150% best no matter how badly I Eff up the approach (which is important because I am an amateur).

I've worked with other babies in the past, but he was my first "own" youngster. He's been SIMPLE to deal with, very sweet and trainable. Nothing fazes him, either. Dumptrucks back and forth at the barn? No problem. First horseshow (Upperville, of all places) with kids, people, horses and golf carts everywhere? No problem, this horse was cool as a cucumber. He also loads, clips, ties, etc... as if he was foaled already knowing his job.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/street+legal4

His Dam has a healthy dose of jumping ability in her bloodlines, but I don't think Contucci hindered her in any way.

[LockeMeadows]

I have not been impressed with the Contucci's I've seen (as far as being Hunters). If you go to YouTube and watch videos of Contucci's offspring, you can get an idea of how they mover and jump. The offspring I've personally met have been tight through the shoulder and do not have a good over-stride at the walk. I have not seen them jump in person, so I can't comment on jumping ability. For the money, there are other stallions that would get my top picks. However, I AM NOT a DQ, so I'm only speaking from a Hunter stand point.

[YankeeLawyer]

Finding a Contucci offspring that happens to be able to jump and breeding to Contucci with the intent to produce a hunter are two different things. He would not be on my list as a potential hunter sire -- no way.

[Ride'emCO]

Finding a Contucci offspring that happens to be able to jump and breeding to Contucci with the intent to produce a hunter are two different things.

True enough - I can only speak about my single experience.

If I had a mare that was suitable, I'd be breeding to Rosenthal for a hunter. I've seen several of his offspring and been mighty impressed. :yes:

[DownYonder]

Wonder why Winston at Nokomis Farm would have American Warmblood and Oldenburger papers?? Are they both registration papers?? I thought that was illegal???

Seems that I heard a while back that he went to his Oldenburg inspection first, but since Oldenburg can't brand, there was nothing to indicate to the other registry inspectors that he was already registered. My understanding was that the owner was supposed to turn in one set of papers but I don't know if that actually took place.

And I agree with many other posters - I have a lot of respect and admiration for Contucci (and we have a LOVELY Contucci daughter at the barn!), but I would not select him if I wanted to produce a show hunter. There are a bunch of good stallions out there that are proven hunter sires or that are showing/have shown very good aptitude for the hunter ring, so why take a chance on a stallion that is not known as a hunter stallion or hunter sire?

[Hocus Focus]

Let's begin by saying... We had a cow on our farm that could jump a four foot barbed wire fence without snagging a teat...With that knowledge, I would assume...Yes, Contucci can jump!

I once told that tale to a ring crew friend and he about busted a gut...saying..."Oh, Man...That is so Canadian!!!"

The stuff I have to deal with on a daily basis.... I find that so inappropriately territorial!!!!!!!!!

[vxf111]

Just a comment on personality, as the horses I knew weren't yet jumping... but I knew several year's worth of foals out of the same mare band, half by Contucci and half by Riverman. The Contuccis were the NICEST, most easy going, born broke horses you could ever wish for. They were all the SPITTING image of him and lovely to deal with.

The Riverman folks all looked relatively different (some like the mares, some like him) and they were totally a PITA. Tough as nails, too smart for their own good, and downright rude/bossy.

I've known other mature horses by Contucci and they had the same lovely temperment. Of course the mare adds something as does the environment, but I have never heard or known Contuccis to have bad/difficult personalities.

[vxf111]

Just a comment on personality, as the horses I knew weren't yet jumping... but I knew several year's worth of foals out of the same mare band, half by Contucci and half by Riverman. The Contuccis were the NICEST, most easy going, born broke horses you could ever wish for. They were all the SPITTING image of him and lovely to deal with.

The Riverman folks all looked relatively different (some like the mares, some like him) and they were totally a PITA. Tough as nails, too smart for their own good, and downright rude/bossy.

I've known other mature horses by Contucci and they had the same lovely temperment. Of course the mare adds something as does the environment, but I have never heard or known Contuccis to have bad/difficult personalities.

[YankeeLawyer]

True enough - I can only speak about my single experience.

If I had a mare that was suitable, I'd be breeding to Rosenthal for a hunter. I've seen several of his offspring and been mighty impressed. :yes:

And I know your boy and he is indeed a handsome one : )

[talloaks]

I have had 2 Contuccis and have to agree they have the best temperaments and are the easiest horses to start, as an earlier poster stated "born broke". My favorite mare is a Contucci daughter and I wouldn't sell her for the world!!:D

[Ride'emCO]

And I know your boy and he is indeed a handsome one : )


Thank you :D

[sporthorsefilly]

Regarding Winston: He was inspected by Oldenburg in May of 2003, and recorded, NOT registered with the AWS in September of 2003. Recorded AWS horses have all the same benefits as registered horses. Yes, terribly confusing, but that is AWS for you.

[ruffey001]

I know there are other sires out there that can jump better and consistently produce better jumping offspring than Contucci. The reason why I like him is that the Contucci babies that I've personally have known all had very nice amateur friendly temperaments, and very good movement. I just think that there is a wider market for such a horse, as long as it jumps honestly and competently, than a horse that can jump the moon, but is a handful to deal with in every other way. I've bred to Don Alfredo (yearling filly is very nice and jumps obstacles on her own but would like a little more length of neck), Corlando (very nice stallion here in PA and got a HUGE 17+ jumper like horse who does have a nice temperament, but is not really elegant hunter like) and a TB stallion (jumps well, but not enough trot). What other hunter stallions are out there, jumps and moves well and is known for producing puppy dog temperaments? Thanks!!

[Ride'emCO]

I hear Westporte is a real pocket pony, very amateur-friendly, and passes those traits on.

http://www.countrylanewarmbloods.com/stallion.htm

[arizona101]

I have a 4 yo Contucci gelding and while we only free jumped him a few times over low fences I must say he was average at best . On the other hand he is a spectacular mover and is an absolute baby doll to handle. He takes everything in stride and nothing upsets him. My dressage trainer is starting him u/s and since I mainly have and show Arabians and Half Arabians and he obviously cannot go to those shows I will probably end up selling him. However if I could afford to show on two circuits I would keep him , his temperment and movement are that nice. Too bad I am a die hard Arabian fan..lol..

[talloaks]

I was told to NOT breed my mare to him if I wanted a hunter or low jumper by the Hasslers when they were at Hilltop.

I'd take comment with a grain of salt.

[YankeeLawyer]

I'd take comment with a grain of salt.

You would take a comment by the Hasslers about a stallion they were standing with a grain of salt? I don't get that, particularly in this context. Contucci may be wonderful for a lot of things but as I said I cannot imagine picking him to try to produce a hunter (or jumper for that matter). I have a Hohenstein that jumps beautifully but Hohenstein (like Contucci, by Caprimond) is also not one I would pick to produce a hunter or jumper (and in fact my mare has strong jumper lines on the bottom, which explains the dual talent).

[DownYonder]

I'd take comment with a grain of salt.

Huh? :confused:

Seems to me that the Hasslers were/are pretty cognizant of Contucci's strong AND weak points.

[tri]

I've known a LOT of cows that can jump! The Hey, diddle, diddle rhyme didn't come out of nowhere!

It sounds like the OP has her heart set on breeding to Contucci to get a hunter. Hope all goes well. If you are breeding for temperment with possibly only minimal talent - which it sounds like that is mostly your only goal - then you probably won't go wrong.

[ruffey001]

Thanks everyone for your comments and they were most helpful. I am going to breed to Don Alfredo again. My earlier comment was that I wanted a horse with a longer length of neck, and I'm probably being too picky about my own filly. She has a fine neck (I don't know if I can attach a picture), is an absolute doll and moves well and jumps great (jumps obstacles on her own). So, taking everyone's comments into consideration, I think I'm back to Don Alfredo, who is a safer and proven hunter sire.

[YankeeLawyer]

Thanks everyone for your comments and they were most helpful. I am going to breed to Don Alfredo again. My earlier comment was that I wanted a horse with a longer length of neck, and I'm probably being too picky about my own filly. She has a fine neck (I don't know if I can attach a picture), is an absolute doll and moves well and jumps great (jumps obstacles on her own). So, taking everyone's comments into consideration, I think I'm back to Don Alfredo, who is a safer and proven hunter sire.

I think that is a really nice choice. The Don Alfredo offspring I have seen are very impressive.

[tri]

Ruffy, without seeing your mare, I think you made an excellent decision. Good luck!

[Ride'emCO]

In weeding out my subscribed threads, I came across this one and thought, "I wonder who the OP bred to?" and, "I wonder, now that his offspring are getting older, there are any more Hunters by Contucci out there?"

So? Any news?

PS - This pic was taken 3ish months after this thread was dropped. My Contucci gelding in his first year of showing over fences. http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.php?pid=30494523&id=1216261066

[Sundown Farm]

Here is my favorite mare in the world, contucci daughter!

http://cedargrovesporthorses.homestead.com/SundownFarm022__2__1_.JPG

Left really early, but she can jump!- http://www.sundownfarmva.com/tatacropped.JPG

These pics were with only a month into jumping.... She learned quick on the XC jumps, and her form came together very well in the arena.. After 45 days, she had it completely figured out (in and outs etc), and LOVED it!

The contuccis that I have worked with have been very willing and just needed a firm start... Once they figure out what they are supposed to do, they are a breeze!

They definitely have the movement and the jump that will get them far!!

http://www.sundownfarmva.com/cgcantata.htm

I would love to breed my KWPN- Jazz mare to Contucci, but he is pricey!!

[avadog]

Here is my favorite mare in the world, contucci daughter!

http://cedargrovesporthorses.homestead.com/SundownFarm022__2__1_.JPG

Left really early, but she can jump!- http://www.sundownfarmva.com/tatacropped.JPG

These pics were with only a month into jumping.... She learned quick on the XC jumps, and her form came together very well in the arena.. After 45 days, she had it completely figured out (in and outs etc), and LOVED it!

The contuccis that I have worked with have been very willing and just needed a firm start... Once they figure out what they are supposed to do, they are a breeze!

They definitely have the movement and the jump that will get them far!!

http://www.sundownfarmva.com/cgcantata.htm

I would love to breed my KWPN- Jazz mare to Contucci, but he is pricey!!

I would say this is an example of why not to breed to Contucci for a hunter. The mare is cute but not rotating her shoulder. I think Don Alfredo is a better choice.

[Ladybug Hill]

Yes, although it might be harsh, I wasn't crazy about either of the hunters that were posted by Contucci. He is a LOVELY horse and would love to be able to use him but his jumping really is limited.

[Ride'emCO]

Cool Stephanie, thanks! She certainly has Contucci's neck and topline, doesn't she?

Any others out there that want to share jumping pics? Though this may be the wrong forum for it, you all generally breed and then sell young...

[Ride'emCO]

Yes, although it might be harsh, I wasn't crazy about either of the hunters that were posted by Contucci. He is a LOVELY horse and would love to be able to use him but his jumping really is limited.

Whoa there, not nice! :no: The judges seem to like him just fine, thanks. Half of it is the mare; I was curious to see what comes out when the mare is of jumping bloodlines, and specifically which ones. Just curiosity, as I am perfectly happy with my "limited" horse and don't need another.

I'll go back to the other forums now. ouch.

[Ladybug Hill]

I didn't mean to sound mean, just agreeing with AVAdog's comments and many others here. Sorry. My horses are not Olympic athlete's either, but when I choose a stallion I am always looking for the qualities that I think are important. I like Contucci and would love to be able to use him as a hunter sire, but nothing in this thread has convinced me that this would be a reasonable expectation. I think these conversations are vital to good breeding and I value folks that are able to speak like they see it.

[Tiki]

If you're looking for a really, really, really, really nice temperment and a very good hunter, try Kathy St. Martin's Mannhattan. I've had 2 babies by him and he is absolutely outstanding as a sire. The real thing!

Contucci is very nice, but I would never use him for a hunter/jumper sire - unless your mare is an outstanding hunter/jumper - and then, why take something away from the mare???

I had an Irish Sport Horse filly, bred for hunters/jumpers and a Contucci colt out of a mare who has produced really nice hunters. The Contucci tried to follow the ISH filly over little 3 foot fences that she took with ease - she jumped in and out of the 3-4 foot ginormous dog pen with ease. The Contucci colt would get his feet all mixed up, or trip on the fence or on landing and look around to see if anyone had seen him stumble. They repeated this over and over. She was great. He never got it right.

[Sundown Farm]

This mares dam was absolutely nothing special.. Half Draft, half tb, solid chestnut with okay conformation.. Okay mover, more clunky!

This is a picture of my girls Full-younger sister---
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee327/SundownFarm/riddle.jpg

Both mares, my girl and her younger sister went premium, as have my girls foals!