Looking for wild bay horse whose parents' colors are known

[JB]

What I'm really looking for is a wild bay from 2 bay (or one bay and one black) parents. Anyone up for the challenge? :D

[RiddleMeThis]

Im looking to JB and Ive been noticing some weird coincidences...Every one I have found out of a normal bay or by a normal bay has had a chestnut as the other parent.

[TN Lilly]

By wild bay do you mean a bay whose black leg markings are not fully up past the knees and hocks?

[sid]

My wild bay is by a bay stallion (who is also known for throwing non-fading black when bred to bay mares)...but is out of a chestnut mare.

This chestnut mare has also thrown a primitive bay when bred to a non-fading black stallion. The full sibling of the primitive bay is a chestnut with a one black forearm. Makes my head spin trying to figure it out.

[RiddleMeThis]

By wild bay do you mean a bay whose black leg markings are not fully up past the knees and hocks?
Yes....BTW JB may have found a wild bay out of two bays. Sire is definately bay, waiting on an AHA lookup on the dam. Pedigree query says bay so heres to hoping.

[DancingAppy]

I have a wild bay out of a bay mare and by an unknown stallion. The stud was a few-spot appaloosa and I've seen his color listed as: dun, buckskin, and bay. So technically a bay, just maybe a modifier in there. Dam was definitely a bay.

[TN Lilly]

I have a wild bay out of two bay parents. Sire: Monkton Elite, a Cleveland Bay Stallion. Dam: Pushover and Over, a registered Tennessee Walking Horse who is bay. I googled the dam's name and she is for sale on horseclicks.com One of her other foals is on buyhorses.com.

Why are you interested in finding a wild bay out of known bay parents?

[Sakura]

I have bred two wild bays. My stallion is black and the mares were bay and fleabitten grey.

[TN Lilly]

I found a photo of my mare's dam on the Horseville.com website. She is ad no. 132806.

[karin@dutchbreeders@aol.com]

Hello Everyone,

Does this mare qualify as a "wild bay"? I had never heard of it!

http://www.sportingchancefarm.com/zoe.htm

This is:

Zoe is a KWPN filly (Goodtimes (bay) X Jolie (dark chestnut)by Wanroij (chestnut)....

Would love to know if Zoe qualifies!

Warmly,
Karin

[aspenlucas]

What I'm really looking for is a wild bay from 2 bay (or one bay and one black) parents. Anyone up for the challenge? :D
I bred a wild bay filly, she was born in 2004. She is by my Cleveland Bay/TB stallion and out of a registered QH mare I owned. Both were true bays. This is the only wild bay he had ever thrown. This is a poor foal picture of her. Her mane and tail were bleached. I have more current pictures I can email, her mane and tail are jet black and she has black over her fetlocks and part way up to her knees/hocks but she also has brown in her cannons.
http://www.frostyoaks.com/frostyoaks/images/destiny9.jpg

[DMK]

JB, according to the JC, both of Robbie's parents are bay. What kind of bay? Don' know. ;)

[3Ponies]

What the heck is a "wild" bay?

[sniplover]

Wild Bay: a bay where the black on the legs only comes up to fetlocks or so. However, the cannon can be strange combinations of red and black areas. Here's a few examples of horses with different degrees of sock height (the second is also considered a wild bay, due to the : http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/horsecolor/baywild.jpg, http://www.dungenes.org/images/Holly_zippers_1-2-04.JPG

Karin - Zoe looks very much like a normal bay to me. She's very cute either way. :)

[jilltx]

My "wild bay" mare is out of a bay and by a chestnut. I don't think it's all that rare, as we have three at my barn that I can think of right off the top of my head, all arab with the exception of my mare.

As a foal:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w240/jilltx_photo/lunababytrot.jpg?t=1209529471

As a mature horse: interesting to note that as she's aged, the black points have darkened. She still has NO black hair on the insides of any of her canon bones and little to no black points on the hind legs. Tail has silver hairs and guard hairs and her body color is very "red". She almost looks chestnut at times, particularly in the summer.
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w240/jilltx_photo/BooneRside4yr.jpg?t=1209529383

[RiddleMeThis]

I bred a wild bay filly, she was born in 2004. She is by my Cleveland Bay/TB stallion and out of a registered QH mare I owned. Both were true bays. This is the only wild bay he had ever thrown. This is a poor foal picture of her. Her mane and tail were bleached. I have more current pictures I can email, her mane and tail are jet black and she has black over her fetlocks and part way up to her knees/hocks but she also has brown in her cannons.
http://www.frostyoaks.com/frostyoaks/images/destiny9.jpg

I would love current pictures and pictures of sire and dam if you have them. My email is lwick911@hotmail.com if you dont wnat to post them.

[RiddleMeThis]

I have a wild bay out of two bay parents. Sire: Monkton Elite, a Cleveland Bay Stallion. Dam: Pushover and Over, a registered Tennessee Walking Horse who is bay. I googled the dam's name and she is for sale on horseclicks.com One of her other foals is on buyhorses.com.

Why are you interested in finding a wild bay out of known bay parents?

Do you have pictures of your wild bay? As to why, because we are trying to figure out which is dominant over the other.

There are three agouti genes (theory not proven(, normal bay, wild bay and brown.

MY theory is Bay is dominant over Wild Bay which is dominant over Brown
Other theory is Wild Bay over Bay over Brown

[tbmorgan]

Question: Do wild bays generally have very little, if any, black on their legs as foals? Amos had ZERO black on his legs as a foal, and since he shed out as a yearling, he just has ankle socks and sorta smutty-looking knees and hocks.

Foal pic:
http://flickr.com/photos/rivendellsportmorgans/978176375/in/set-72157601111751704/

Yearling pic:
http://flickr.com/photos/rivendellsportmorgans/958411495/in/set-72157601111751704/

rising 3 yr. old:
http://flickr.com/photos/rivendellsportmorgans/2365500276/

Amos's dam is a bright red chestnut, and his sire is a dark bay/brown.

Katja

[poltroon]

It seems there is quite a continuum of 'wildness' in wild bay, from some brown on the cannons to tiny black anklets with serious blonde streaks in the mane and tail. That makes me wonder what other modifiers are at work. And then how does that compare with the smutty factor, which adds dark shading over the topline and saddle area?

My pony appears to be almost a minimal form of the wild bay, with just blonde leg feathering and pale cannons. She has no black shading anywhere else on her body, just smutty (rather than solid) black on her legs and a black mane and tail. Her grandparents are all grey, so that's no help.

[RiddleMeThis]

What color were her parents?

[poltroon]

Her mother is the exact same shade of bay, down to similar shading on the legs, and her father was grey, nearly white at age 4. She's a Connemara.

picture with fairly clear leg view (http://www.ponydom.com/images/farm/bridey/bri_trot_1987.jpg)

It's not easy to see in the picture, but she has significant leg feathering that is blond in her winter coat.

[TN Lilly]

Riddlemethis, you have a private message.

[JB]

Man, this thread went from nothing to taking off after I wasn't on! :p :D

DMK, I highly doubt the JC would register anything as wild bay ;) so going by their "bay" description doesn't help unfortunately.

As RMT indicated, we're interested in this because if 2 normal bay parents (obviously normal bay, not potentially brown of any shade) produce a wild bay foal (and you cannot tell this by the foal coat because they all have black at most up to the fetlocks) then normal bay is dominant over wild bay which is a theory that RMT and I (and some others) believe, but others don't.

I don't have time right now to check out all the pictures, but will later for sure!

[DMK]

gotcha... I thought you were exploring the ch/bay parents as opposed to specific types of 2 bay parents.

[JB]

gotcha... I thought you were exploring the ch/bay parents as opposed to specific types of 2 bay parents.

LOL, that just seems to be a fairly common pattern we are running into, which raises questions I'm not even sure of yet :lol:

But wild bay from normal bay and black would prove the point as well - since the black is aa, if the bay provides At to produce a wild bay, then we would know that he was AAt with A dominating and making him normal bay.

[Tiki]

Sooooo, can the commercial DNA labs now test for the 3 kinds of Agouti? There didn't used to be a way to tell the brown genotype.

[JB]

Sooooo, can the commercial DNA labs now test for the 3 kinds of Agouti? There didn't used to be a way to tell the brown genotype.

No :( Just normal bay (A) and there is a test for brown (A+) that should be available commercially soon.

[Penthilisea]

I know one wild bay personally, with the blond feathers and high lights in the mane. He is a morgan, out of a chestnut mare and by Equinox Beaubrook. Stud is bay, dam is flaxen chestnut.
See pictures here (towards the bottom) http://www.morgancolors.com/basecolors.htm

Does the blond come out of having one chestnut parent?

[jilltx]

My mare has blonde feathers in the winter as well, up to her girth area.

Strangely, penthilisea, my mar's sire is a flaxen chestnut out of a golden bay mare.

[poltroon]

Who knows what was lurking under the grey coat of my mare's granddam, but that grandsire was a definite dark bay before he turned grey. I will have to see if I can figure out if there was wild bay expressed in that mare line before my mare's dam.

[Blue Moon]

You're a wee bit confused there. The wild bay allele was called A+, and the seal brown one is "At". The whole wild bay thing is still just a theory. Some think it's just a lighter shade of bay ("A"), and not a separate gene at all. No one really knows yet. But, there is now a test for seal brown:
http://www.petdnaservicesaz.com/Equine.html
Note that it is a separate test from the other agouti test that has been around awhile (which looks to see how many "a" alleles are present). So if you had no idea what agouti genes your horse had, you would first need to do the original agouti test, and then depending on the results, if brown was still a possibility, you would do the second test (to see if there was any "At" alleles).