Is this horse a wild bay? *Update-new photo pg2*

[DLee]

A few weeks ago I had never even heard of a wild bay until it was brought up here. Now I think I might own one. :D I think she matches the description, what do you guys think?
http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/dianad1/?action=view&current=Harm105.jpg

[RiddleMeThis]

Are those actually black points/brown points? Or are they mud?

[sid]

I have a wild bay. I can't tell about yours because I can't see the lower leg color very well.

[talloaks]

What is a wild bay supposed to look like? I don't see any black points at all, so is a wild bay, a bay horse without any points??:confused:

[RiddleMeThis]

Sid if I could ask, do you have a pedigree on him? With pictures of mom and dad?

[RiddleMeThis]

What is a wild bay supposed to look like? I don't see any black points at all, so is a wild bay, a bay horse without any points??:confused:

A wild bay is a bay with minial black points, normally not over the pasterns here is a good picture http://www.foresthorse.com/colorfiles/bayjack4.jpg

[DLee]

Sorry, I know it's not a great photo, I am just buying this horse so I can't take more, but she has black only up to her fetlocks. It's not mud, lol.

Here's the best I can do, blowing them up.
http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/dianad1/?action=view&current=legs.jpg

It's just so weird that I had never even HEARD of a wild bay before that thread!

They remind me of a bay foal's legs that never changed.

[JB]

If she does indeed have black up to around her fetlocks, that is very indicative of a wild bay.

[talloaks]

Hey DLee, how cool!!!:D Now lets hope she won't grey out!!:lol:

[sid]

Riddle -- I can't post pics here but I can email pics of her when she was a few months old. She's now age 4 but I have no recent pics. Leg markings have changed little.

Basically she's a bright bay with solid BLACK fetlocks but the black doesn't go UP the leg. beyond a bit of shading of black that stops well before the knee or hock. I love the look --- very fancy! Almost like black "socks".

PM me and I'll send you the pic.

[RiddleMeThis]

Very nice, now another question do you know pedigree?

[amdfarm]

Yep, wild bays are basically bays w/ black bobby socks, pasterns/fetlocks, but generally no higher than that. You sure don't see a lot of them.

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

I have often wondered if Frodo qualities as a wild bay! There are pics of him in my siggy. His black fades and, honestly, he is only truly black around his pasturns.

[talloaks]

This is really strange, but in all these years of having horses I have never heard of wild bay nor have I seen one, at least I don't think I have. Are they found in particular breeds? Or can they be found in any breed?
DLee your new filly is cute!!:D

[JB]

They are found in any breed that has bays :)

Interestingly enough, it is generally considered that wild bay (At) is dominant over regular bay A (which is dominant over brown (A+), but that's another story). Looking at it like that, you would think that wild bay would be much more prevalent, since it would only take one copy of At to make the horse wild bay, and 2 copies of the less dominant A to make a normal bay.

If it is indeed true that wild bay is dominant, then the only thing that makes sense is that is has been bred out, purposefully or not, so the regular bays dominate, either as AA, Aa, or AA+. It would be sort of like black being (mostly) bred out of certain breeds like the Belgian draft and the Fjord, where the dominating color is a recessive chestnut (ee).

[JB]

DLee, is there ANY chance you have pictures of your horse's parents?

[cyriz's mom]

I thought there were other characteristics of wild bay...shoulder striping (shading), doral shading, points on legs higher than fetlocks (but not solid black) and tails with lighter stripes. Am I wrong or it there another type of bay with those characteristics?

I have two that I thought were wild bays...full siblings by Sea Accounts and out of Francesca (Fatalist/Furisto). They have the characteristics above.

[Sakura]

Looks like a wild bay to me :yes:.

Bugs-n-Frodo, I'd say that Frodo is also a wild bay. His black points are very limited and the silver in his tail is also a trait seen in a lot of wild bays. Both wild bay foals by my stallion looked very similar to your boy.

[JB]

I thought there were other characteristics of wild bay...shoulder striping (shading), doral shading, points on legs higher than fetlocks (but not solid black) and tails with lighter stripes. Am I wrong or it there another type of bay with those characteristics?


A wild bay can have the points between the fetlock and knee/hock, but more commonly it stops at the fetlock area. Shoulder striping and countershading are not relegated to wild bays - sooty can induce those, as well as the "tiger stripes" on the legs. A wild bay tends to have a regular black mane and tail, but if you get Silver in the mix, the mane and tail will "fade" to some degree.

[TheBandit]

I thought my horse was an odd-ball because he only has black ankles.


http://apps.facebook.com/horse_book/fbphoto/view?pid=3405203664594565201&dbuid=1107809&page=1

[Tiki]

I have a mare that looked liver chestnut when born, but is now a light bay color with very dark, reddish brown mane and tail and no black. She does not even resemble any shade of chestnut I have ever seen, but she doesn't appear to have any black on her. Any ideas??? Sire is bay, dam is chestnut.

[talloaks]

I have a mare that looked liver chestnut when born, but is now a light bay color with very dark, reddish brown mane and tail and no black. She does not even resemble any shade of chestnut I have ever seen, but she doesn't appear to have any black on her. Any ideas??? Sire is bay, dam is chestnut.


Tiki, do you have a photo of the mare you could post??? My liver chestnut mare is really dark and has very dark hairs in her mane and tail and in her body too (I think, I'll have to take another look):lol:

[Tiki]

Well, actually, she's no longer dark liver chestnut. She's a light bay - but with no black points. I'll have to get some pics when she's shed out and rejuvenate this thread to see if anyone has any ideas.

[class]

what makes you think that she is a light bay if she has no black? wouldn't that make her some type of chestnut still? i thought the very definition of bay was that it had to have a black mane and tail?

[DMK]

I've always thought of Robbie as a "primitive" bay although depending on the time of year and clip job he can appear to have more or less black above the ankles, but it's neverever total black legs... (this pic is from his younger days)

He's by Erin's Isle (Busted X Shantung mare) out of a Diplomat Way mare. In short all Irish, GB and French up top, all American down below.

[JB]

I have a mare that looked liver chestnut when born, but is now a light bay color with very dark, reddish brown mane and tail and no black. She does not even resemble any shade of chestnut I have ever seen, but she doesn't appear to have any black on her. Any ideas??? Sire is bay, dam is chestnut.
Your mare is still chestnut. It's not terribly uncommon to have a dark sooty chestnut with dark red mane and tail, but the body not so dark.

I've always thought of Robbie as a "primitive" bay although depending on the time of year and clip job he can appear to have more or less black above the ankles, but it's neverever total black legs... (this pic is from his younger days)
I would agree he's a wild bay, aka "primitive bay". Another term used is faded bay.

[Tiki]

what makes you think that she is a light bay if she has no black?I didn't say she is bay, I said she is a light bay colorbut is now a light bay color with very dark, reddish brown mane and tail and no black.
So, JB, she is probably a sooty chestnut? Where would the sooty come from? Her dam is a definite red with an almost metallic sheen to her coat and she was dark liver when she was younger. This (http://tranquilityfarm.com/rambling%20rose.html) doesn't show the liver color very well - I think the light was in just the wrong place, but now - with NO black - she is just about the color of DMK's horse.

[class]

so i guess a palomino could instead be called a light bay color with a white mane and tail?

[Tiki]

Get a grip, class! I'm referring to 'bay' in this instance as a shade of color as an easy means of description. I think everyone else can picture what she looks like from that.

[JB]

I didn't say she is bay, I said she is a light bay color
It's just a bit misleading to say "light bay color", since "bay" by definition has black points. And "light bay" could mean anything from a golden color closer to that of buckskin, or a light brown, or light reddish brown. That's why the comment ;) And yes, a chestnut can have a light "brown" body and have a substantially darker mane and tail.

So, JB, she is probably a sooty chestnut? Where would the sooty come from? Her dam is a definite red with an almost metallic sheen to her coat and she was dark liver when she was younger. This (http://tranquilityfarm.com/rambling%20rose.html) doesn't show the liver color very well - I think the light was in just the wrong place, but now - with NO black - she is just about the color of DMK's horse.

She looks very much like a standard liver chestnut in that foal picture. I'd love to see a current picture of her. How old is she? Chestnuts can go through various shades before they hit their adult color, but even as an adult their Winter vs Summer shades can be quite different. Winter is usually darker, but not necessarily. Sooty could have come from both her parents.

[RiddleMeThis]

I've always thought of Robbie as a "primitive" bay although depending on the time of year and clip job he can appear to have more or less black above the ankles, but it's neverever total black legs... (this pic is from his younger days)

He's by Erin's Isle (Busted X Shantung mare) out of a Diplomat Way mare. In short all Irish, GB and French up top, all American down below.

Do you have pictures of his sire and dam? PLEASE! lol

[DMK]

I wish! I even stopped in at his breeder's farm (Bridlewood) to see if they had pics of his dam and that was a no go. Then in the freakiest of small worlds, I actually met someone who was the "head lad" (I love that term) when his sire was racing in Ireland (sire went back to Ireland after a stint in America). He told me Erin's Isle was a "hard knocking horse who could run all day" ... OK, I didn't think to ask about the exact specifics of his bayness! :lol: But it's obvious at least that Busted was a proper bay with none of that riff raff primitive bay stuff. ;) (although he does have black up his shins - all front angle o/f shots make him look like a proper bay)

I wonder how common or uncommon primitives are in TBs? I think Robbie is the only one I have seen, and he is a blood bay to boot - another uncommon color (but not rare) in TBs....

[DLee]

DMK,
I love your horse I'd be tickled if this filly was marked like that! She is 3/4 TB and 1/4 Irish.

[DMK]

DLee, it must be the Oirish, don'cha think? :D

With any luck she will jump like this (http://www.chronicleofmyhorse.com/photo/photo/show?id=1971868:Photo:51517) (yes, I kind of like him ;) )

[tbmorgan]

Would Amos be considered a wild bay? He has "smutty" hocks and knees, but they aren't really, truly black...his black "socks" barely come above his fetlocks. Here's a pic:
http://flickr.com/photos/rivendellsportmorgans/2365500276/

FWIW, his mama is a chestnut and dad is dark bay.

Katja

[JB]

Would Amos be considered a wild bay? He has "smutty" hocks and knees, but they aren't really, truly black...his black "socks" barely come above his fetlocks. Here's a pic:
http://flickr.com/photos/rivendellsportmorgans/2365500276/

FWIW, his mama is a chestnut and dad is dark bay.

Katja

This one's tricky, and I could believe either way.

I too find it interesting that of the wild bays RMT and I are finding that SO many of them are from a bay and chestnut parent. Interesting indeed...

[DLee]

DLee, it must be the Oirish, don'cha think? :D

With any luck she will jump like this (http://www.chronicleofmyhorse.com/photo/photo/show?id=1971868:Photo:51517) (yes, I kind of like him ;) )

That would make me VERY happy! :yes:

[DLee]

Okay, here's the new horse (yeah, she's kinda skinny), but it's a better picture of her color.... wild bay??
http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/dianad1/?action=view&current=Harmony025.jpg

[jilltx]

DLee I would say yes, or perhaps silver dapple bay with the streaking in her tail?? Hopefully more folks will eigh in for you. :)

[RiddleMeThis]

DLee what breed is she?

[DLee]

She is 3/4 TB and 1/4 Irish Draught. She's 2.

[RiddleMeThis]

She have a dorsal stripe? Do you know her breeding?

[DLee]

No dorsal stripe. Yes, I know her breeding.

[RiddleMeThis]

Could I have sires and dams names? You can pm me if you want

[RiddleMeThis]

And is there any line at all down her back. Even a faint countershaded one?

[showjumpers66]

Silver Lining (aka Landwerder) sired a wild bay colt this year. He has no black coloring on his hind legs and just a tiny bit on the back of his front ankles. His mane is black and his tail is striped with black. All of his foal coat has shed out, so his legs are really this color.

http://www.photostockplus.com/home.php?user_id=18633&tmpl=29&event=215401&action=viewphoto&album_id=215404&rank=2