Would you breed to a race horse TB to get a sport horse foal?

[EquineLVR]

Just curious.. as I have been doing a lot of research on TB's lately.. there are actually quite a number of nice race horse stallions with very nice bloodlines out there for less than 5K live foal..

Would anyone consider breeding to a race horse TB stallion to get a Sport horse baby? I have found quite a few very cool bloodlines that I cant seem to find in the sport horse TB's...

Thoughts?

[fish]

Absolutely. A lot of people have done it.

[maxxtrot]

i have now done this 3 times. have a nice 3 yr.old colt by thats our buck and 2 yr.old by skip to the stone and a just turned yearling by diligence. all are very nice and the yearling is quite fancy and already 15.3 at the withers!and moves unbelievable. go for it, just research it.

[vineyridge]

Of course.:D

It's the logical thing to do if you see bloodlines that would make a great fit with one of your mares. How do you think the Germans find their TBs? Most of them are ex-racers.

Want to let us in on what you are thinking? You've held out a box of candy; now open the danged thing.

[Foxtrot's]

... well, not just any TB stallion - just because he was a racehorse does not mean he can move the way we want hunters or dressage horses to move, or can jump with talent or form. He needs to be built uphill and sound, good footed, kind, etc. Lots of them can, of course. Lots of info on these bloodlines here, courtesy people like Vimeyridge....our encyclopaedia.

Can you see any of his offspring performing off the track?

I was checking out a horse called Taylor, once, as he was a looker.
I asked the stallion owner if he could move. "Mam," he said, "I guess he can move, he won over $xxx dollars." He had no idea what "movement" meant to a sport horse breeder.

[time fault]

It's what I'm doing! I even get serious discounts to the stallions for AI if I tell them it's not for race and it wouldn't affect the stallion's JC reports.

[Erin Pittman]

If I had an extra $50K lying around, I'd love to see what kind of sport horse Rock Hard Ten could produce. I saw him last year at an Open House during the Keeneland Sales in January and was thoroughly and completely impressed. Impressed enough to take pictures of him (and Fusaichi Pegasus - who was better looking when he first started stud duties, imho):
Rock Hard Ten (http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/4496/241920930003)
Rock Hard Ten's pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/rock+hard+ten) Not really thrilled with Mr. P so close, but I love Kris S

The first conformation photo that Ashford Stud had of Fusaichi Pegasus made him look like a very sleek well-built dressage horse. Now he's ummmm...chubby: Fusaichi Pegasus (http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/42696/2573707930039146725S600x600Q85.jpg)

EquineLVR, you now have us all wondering what stallion(s) has you interested.

[camohn]

Yup. The problem is that most of the really nice looking TB stallions that were successful runners have stud fees out of the range of sporthorse land. For example, Not For Love has super looking foals. His fee is not so affordable though!!!
Roanoke was a popular stallion here for ages for both race and sporthorse foals as his runners would win and he made nice sport babies too....for a 2500 stud fee.

[camohn]

... well, not just any TB stallion - just because he was a racehorse does not mean he can move the way we want hunters or dressage horses to move, or can jump with talent or form. He needs to be built uphill and sound, good footed, kind, etc. Lots of them can, of course. Lots of info on these bloodlines here, courtesy people like Vimeyridge....our encyclopaedia.

Can you see any of his offspring performing off the track?

I was checking out a horse called Taylor, once, as he was a looker.
I asked the stallion owner if he could move. "Mam," he said, "I guess he can move, he won over $xxx dollars." He had no idea what "movement" meant to a sport horse breeder.
That is funny because it is so similar to one of my stories. I went to a race farm and looked at broodmares they had for sale. One Quadrangle mare came out. She was very hot, head up, eye rolled back in her head. Her turned her loose in a small ring/roundpen area. She moved short and quick. I shook my head and said no thank you. He wondered why. I said she is too hot and she moves short up front. He looked at me and said "but she can move those short strided legs real fast...she won 50K at the track!". He brought out another mare. This one was a doe eyed 17H mare that looked like a WB. Lovley soft mover. I loved her until he pulled out her papers. She was bred Pleasant Colony top and bottom and my stallion I was looking for a date for was also bred PC. Too much of a good thing for me pedigree wise!! I was disappointed as I loved the mare. He shook his head when I loved that one...said she has the speed of a cart horse and even outgrew the dang starting gate.

[TKR]

Oh yes! I've done that several times with good results. Had a colt by Beldale Ball (x Nashua and won the Melbourne Cup) who was a fabulous athlete and mover. I think it's a great idea if you research the bloodlines and find the right type and mover. I had the last colt by Greek Answer (Canadian Sprint Champion), have a filly by Strong Performance and my personal horse by Violado, both SW. I agree with Erin about Rock Hard Ten! I tried to send a mare to Alysheba but was a year too late. Also bred to Key To Content but she did not get in foal many years ago. Have several I would love to use!
PennyG

[Texarkana]

Sure... but it seems like an awfully expensive route to go. Especially for what may be an unproven sporthorse sire.

As someone who has worked in both sporthorse and racehorse breeding, I chuckle to myself how one minute I'm scoffing at a sporthorse stallion for having what I consider too high of a fee. Then the next minute I'm scoffing at a racehorse stallion with the same fee for being too low! :lol:

[kookicat]

(disclaimer! I AM NOT a breeder ;) )

I'd love to breed a mare to Montjeu

http://www.coolmore.com/stallions/ireland/montjeu/

I really love the way he looks and his babies are built from the same mold. But with that stud fee, I'd have to win the lotto first!

[Linny]

Spectacular Bid sired many sporthorses and more recently Top Account is worth a look.
If you wander over to the BloodHorse site and click on the Stallion Register and ask for stallions by price range you will find gems, many in regional markets with moderate (and negotiable) fees. If they are able to do AI and they know the foal will never be registered (and therefore not exist statistically) they may offer further discounts.

[Norcrest]

I am trying to get a feel for what sporthorse breeders look for. From reading this thread and another one the other day...I am seeing Kris S alot but am confused is Seattle Slew a plus or a negative? I just brought home a Seattle Slew son out of a Kris S mare and my neighbor wants to breed to him after seeing him move in the round pen...I know NOTHING but want to learn when it comes to Sporthorse breeding. What other TB sires are good to see in a pedigree?

[EquineLVR]

Well there are a couple that I really like on paper but they dont have websites so they could be the ugliest things on the planet but here are a few that I like:

Behrens http://www.pedigreequery.com/behrens Pleasant Colony son.. 5k stud fee

Attack the Books http://www.pedigreequery.com/attack+the+books Notebook son 1k stud fee

Audited http://www.pedigreequery.com/audited He has a pic on there and looks very nice his fee is 1k

Battlevenue http://www.pedigreequery.com/battlevenue He has a pic too - looks nice but not the best pic and his fee is 1500

Big Lukey http://www.pedigreequery.com/battlevenue no pic - stud fee 1k

Boastful http://www.pedigreequery.com/boastful stud fee 1k


Bright Launch http://www.pedigreequery.com/bright+launch There is a pic - looks fairly nice - $3500 stud fee

Bull Market http://www.pedigreequery.com/bull+market4 Like him.. stud fee $3500 there is also a pic.

Just a few there are more.. maybe we are missing an opportunity here to find some nice guys..

Thoughts?

[Texarkana]

Behrens has a website, albeit a little lacking in info for a sporthorse breeder:

http://www.victoryrose.com/html/berhens.html

I've seen him in person and he is very handsome. I used to dream of breeding to him for a horse to race then show for myself. But his offspring have failed to make much of a splash on the track and off he went to Cali... where he's not really doing much better.

I expect his fee to come down further in the coming years. Although a colt from the same family will be starting in the Kentucky Derby this weekend (Cowboy Cal... o/o Texas Tammy who's half-sis to Behrens). If by some miracle Cowboy Cal wins, I imagine that would help keep Behrens fee up.

[camohn]

I am trying to get a feel for what sporthorse breeders look for. From reading this thread and another one the other day...I am seeing Kris S alot but am confused is Seattle Slew a plus or a negative? I just brought home a Seattle Slew son out of a Kris S mare and my neighbor wants to breed to him after seeing him move in the round pen...I know NOTHING but want to learn when it comes to Sporthorse breeding. What other TB sires are good to see in a pedigree?

Seattle Slew is famous for being a very quirky horse (very particular with liking things done "a certian way or no way") and he is typical of the Bold Ruler line for that....and his offspring are usually talented but also often quirky/opinionated.He is bred Nasrullah top and bottom (the source of the 'tude). I like the Kris S side better...Roberto, Princequillo, Nashua...all up close.

[bpt]

I crossed my huge grand prix jumping warmblood mare with Innkeeper. I have a gorgeous colt that I have no doubt will have a great career as a jumper. He is very athletic, knows exactly where to place his feet even when running at top speed! I crossed this mare with a warmblood the year before and that colt was a bit clunky. Now Innkeeper only raced early on and it was decided he wasn't race horse material, he did prove to be an excellent cross with the warmblood mares. Hilltop used him as their guest stallion for two years. They crossed him with Parlez (Parabol) and got a phenominal filly who was premium and had scores thru the roof. Innkeeper is by the stallion Secretariat. Look him up on enavantstud.com. My cross with my mare was so good I decided to breed back and am expecting next month. Good Luck.

[ljshorses]

I crossed my huge grand prix jumping warmblood mare with Innkeeper. I have a gorgeous colt that I have no doubt will have a great career as a jumper. He is very athletic, knows exactly where to place his feet even when running at top speed! I crossed this mare with a warmblood the year before and that colt was a bit clunky. Now Innkeeper only raced early on and it was decided he wasn't race horse material, he did prove to be an excellent cross with the warmblood mares. Hilltop used him as their guest stallion for two years. They crossed him with Parlez (Parabol) and got a phenominal filly who was premium and had scores thru the roof. Innkeeper is by the stallion Secretariat. Look him up on enavantstud.com. My cross with my mare was so good I decided to breed back and am expecting next month. Good Luck.

I agree totally!! One of my best broodmares and Premium at her warmblood inspection has similiar breeding to Innkeeper. She out produces herself over and over again. Lovely mover with loads of jump talent to boot. I am considering Innkeeper for one of my warmblood mares too.

[foxhavenfarm]

One of our stallions is very well bred for racing (this is his pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/artrageous)), but we stand him (and offer incentives) for sporthorse breeding as well.

[TKR]

I had an email from Walmac Farm/Ocala offering deep discounts to mare owners breeding after May 15. The racing industry is probably suffering some off-season with their breeding due to the economic crunch. So, the less popular/commercial racing stallions are probably quite available if you ask. Those are many times the ones that are more sport-types.
PennyG

[VirginiaBred]

I love Audited!

[vineyridge]

Running Stag was born to sire sport horses. He's in Louisiana this year, stands for 5k, but would probably be open for negotiation.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/running+stag

I love Audited also. He's just plain gorgeous.

[fish]

Spectacular Bid sired many sporthorses and more recently Top Account is worth a look.
If you wander over to the BloodHorse site and click on the Stallion Register and ask for stallions by price range you will find gems, many in regional markets with moderate (and negotiable) fees. If they are able to do AI and they know the foal will never be registered (and therefore not exist statistically) they may offer further discounts.

FYI, those price ranges start at "free," and some of those free stallions are nicely bred, conformed, and/or fairly successful on the track, too.

[Sacha]

I am breeding my eventing mare to this stallion http://www.pedigreequery.com/set+adrift
who for a flat bred Thoroughbred has what I think is a very interesting sport horse slant to the bottom half of his pedigree. He is being aimed at the sport horse market now but wasn't bred for it and has never competed himself, so shall have to see if his offspring can do the job

[not again]

I met some wonderful offspring of this stallion. Hi stud fee is a bit steep for sport breeding though...
http://www.lanesend.com/stallions/stallions/pleasant_tap/index.html

[EquineLVR]

I LOVE PLEASANT TAP!! I have been drooling over him for awhile - however his stud fee is nuts for sport horses.. :(

[TKR]

If there is a race stallion you like, particularly at this point in the season, look at The Blood Horse or other racing publications (classified ads) for agents who specialize in selling seasons for the multiple owners (most are syndicated) and can offer a much cheaper fee than the one published. You can also make an offer which they will extend to the syndicate member selling the season. The stallions are not always booked full and the syndicate member would rather have something than nothing for the season he/she is entitled to use or sell.

PennyG

[Freedom Sporthorses]

I have to agree with TKR, if you find a stallion that you like it does not hurt to ask the farm to see if they will make you a deal on stud fees. It wouldn't hurt to let them know that you are a sporthorse breeder...we took the chance and we have three mares going to Kentucky this year :D

[camohn]

I met some wonderful offspring of this stallion. Hi stud fee is a bit steep for sport breeding though...
http://www.lanesend.com/stallions/stallions/pleasant_tap/index.html

Roanoke here
http://www.pedigreequery.com/roanoke2
is the PC I mentioned at a much lower stud fee than Pleasant Tap and is built much like him. He stood locally here until a year or 2 ago. He stood in PA for 2500 then his owner was killed in a tragic accident and he was sold to IL. I did not see any ads for him in Bloodhorse this year but last year's advertised rate was less than the 2500 he stood for here. He was a top 5 race producer in PA and also has a lot of sporthorse foals (both TB and some lovely WB crosses) around locally.

[johnnysauntie]

Is to look for soundness in a racing TB stud. There are a lot of royally bred stallions that are either unraced or just had a handful of starts. If I was looking at a racing TB stud for a sporthorse baby, in addition to confirmation and movement, I'd sure be looking at durability too ....

[TKR]

I think soundness is important but subjective in a racehorse, considering how young they start, injuries are quite common. I think I would review the pedigree and look at the individual's conformation.
PennyG

[ise@ssl]

We bred our Swedish mare by Gaugin de Lully to the TB stallion Innkeeper and the resulting filly is just super. She's now 3 years old - has the lift and suspension of a Warmblood and can certainly gallop like her TB grandsire Secretariat!!! She's also more refined.

[Secretariat2]

My guy was bred for racing but is built like a sporthorse. He is a lovely mover, great uphill conformation, fantastic temperament, can jump and has produced 3 lovely sporthorse foals so far. His sire stands for $35,000. My guy is a lot less expensive ;) He did have a racing injury but is now completely sound and barefoot with great feet.

[rio2]

Oh yes - my Sunnys Halo/Dynaformer mare is gone to Cetewayo. He's cheap at 2500.00 now, but his babies look good and I think it will go up. I just love Ribot and he's so close up:yes: http://www.godstonefarm.com/Stallions/Cetewayo/
They also give you a nice video of him so you can see his stride and flow of movement.

[Cartier]

(and Fusaichi Pegasus - who was better looking when he first started stud duties, imho):
The first conformation photo that Ashford Stud had of Fusaichi Pegasus made him look like a very sleek well-built dressage horse. Now he's ummmm...chubby: Fusaichi Pegasus (http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/42696/2573707930039146725S600x600Q85.jpg)

EquineLVR, you now have us all wondering what stallion(s) has you interested.

Thanks for the link to the photo of him... haven't thought of him in a long time. We always loved Fusaichi Pegasus, especially in the earlier photos.

[goodmorning]

I posted a thread about this guy, who is very eye appealing. Well, I have found out, thanks to the great COTH connections, that Susan Tuckerman (bred Out and About who earned a bronze medal in Atlanta) stood him for a while, and Bruce Davidson bred to him, and Susan even competes one of his grand-children at Intermediate. There are also a couple that I found online who have competed very well in the hunter circuit (including WEF).

http://www.pedigreequery.com/real+partner

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/goodmorning_4444/RP.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/goodmorning_4444/realpartner2.jpg
http://www.pemburyhousefarm.com/Stallions.html

[vxf111]

Harry the Hat is siring both racehorses and sporthorses, including horses that show on the line.

[EquineLVR]

Here is a couple more I like:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/cape+cross
PIC: http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/stallion-directory/stallion.aspx?stallion_no=2485761



http://www.pedigreequery.com/flashy+bull - really like this guy

http://www.pedigreequery.com/comic+strip - no pic

http://www.pedigreequery.com/too+much+bling - Like this one too

[LivviesMom]

I'd consider it. In fact I really like this guy..

http://www.missionridgefarm.net/sirlloyd.html

I used to handle him when he was at the farm I worked at..an absolute doll and lovely mover..very impressive and those pictures just don't do him justice..

[vineyridge]

Oh yes - my Sunnys Halo/Dynaformer mare is gone to Cetewayo. He's cheap at 2500.00 now, but his babies look good and I think it will go up. I just love Ribot and he's so close up:yes: http://www.godstonefarm.com/Stallions/Cetewayo/
They also give you a nice video of him so you can see his stride and flow of movement.

I've been thinking that Cetewayo would be a very good choice. His bottom side as well as his top side are established for sport, he's durable as it's possible for a TB to be, and he's lovely. What makes him especially interesting is his line to Comely, whose sire is the same as Laudanum's.

You have a Halo/Dynaformer mare? What in the world is her temperament like? The reputations on both of those stallions are dreadful, but I've been wondering if maybe it's either a testosterone thing or a stallion living environment problem. It would be handy to know if mares and geldings from those lines are not so hostile to humans.

[vineyridge]

I am breeding my eventing mare to this stallion http://www.pedigreequery.com/set+adrift
who for a flat bred Thoroughbred has what I think is a very interesting sport horse slant to the bottom half of his pedigree. He is being aimed at the sport horse market now but wasn't bred for it and has never competed himself, so shall have to see if his offspring can do the job

That is an absolutely lovely TB pedigree. I wish we could find something similar in our TB population. Please let us know how the baby ends up. :yes:

BTW, the top side, with Mill Reef and the Germans is pretty danged nice, too.

[EquineLVR]

That is an absolutely lovely TB pedigree. I wish we could find something similar in our TB population. Please let us know how the baby ends up. :yes:

BTW, the top side, with Mill Reef and the Germans is pretty danged nice, too.

Agreed - love that pedigree..

Do you have any pics of him?

[EquineLVR]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/alphabet+soup

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/stallion-directory/stallion.aspx?stallion_no=1332063


Lovely boy out of a 1-N dam line.

[EquineLVR]

another Cozzene son who's pedigree is to die for.. IMO..out of a 1-E dam line

http://www.pedigreequery.com/running+stag

[Sacha]

These are photos taken of Set Adrift at a ecent stallion parade
http://www.greenlees-equine.com/portfolio28769.html

This is my mare
http://www.volatis.co.uk/gerty.html
As she is a big old girl I really wanted a Thoroughbred to cross with her, but didnt want to compromise movement and I really hope this cross breeds me something amazing. Took me long enough to find the right stallion!!!

[rio2]

I've been thinking that Cetewayo would be a very good choice. His bottom side as well as his top side are established for sport, he's durable as it's possible for a TB to be, and he's lovely. What makes him especially interesting is his line to Comely, whose sire is the same as Laudanum's.

You have a Halo/Dynaformer mare? What in the world is her temperament like? The reputations on both of those stallions are dreadful, but I've been wondering if maybe it's either a testosterone thing or a stallion living environment problem. It would be handy to know if mares and geldings from those lines are not so hostile to humans.

Oh yes I do love Cetewayo - and Judy at Godstone is AWESOME (though sick with the flu at the moment I hear).
Sunny is an interesting mare http://www.pedigreequery.com/sunnys+girl
She is not the type of horse you get into a war with, though she's smaller at 15.3. But if you are the type that can ask her instead of shoving the square into the round hole, she's pretty good. She's athletic as anything and has a nice big booty :D. I can see where she could be difficult ( her previous owner said she had raging ulcers on the track that we treated for about a year when we got her), but if you are quiet with her she's fine. Oh - as long as you don't blow in her face :eek:

[foxhavenfarm]

These are photos taken of Set Adrift at a ecent stallion parade
http://www.greenlees-equine.com/portfolio28769.html

WOW he is lovely!

[Sassenach]

another Cozzene son who's pedigree is to die for.. IMO..out of a 1-E dam line

http://www.pedigreequery.com/running+stag

I remember Running Stag back when he was racing. I liked him a lot :yes:

[vineyridge]

These are photos taken of Set Adrift at a ecent stallion parade
http://www.greenlees-equine.com/portfolio28769.html

This is my mare
http://www.volatis.co.uk/gerty.html
As she is a big old girl I really wanted a Thoroughbred to cross with her, but didnt want to compromise movement and I really hope this cross breeds me something amazing. Took me long enough to find the right stallion!!!

He is very handsome, and the slideshow was almost like watching a movie of his trot. The mare is lovely, and it looks like they would make a very special baby.

I hope it all works out for y'all just as you've wished. (Y'all is Southern for you, the sire and the dam. It's never singular.)

[vineyridge]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/lanciano

This guy was a G2 winner in Germany and now stands in Alberta. You could ship to him for JC papers or you could breed A1 to a CWBHA licensed stallion and go that way with the foal.

This is a nearly perfect TB sport horse sire pedigree if you look at how the Germans used TBs in their WB breeding. The line breeding is text book, and Surumu is the Sadlers Wells of German TB breeding. He's the damsire of Monsun and the sire of Acatenango. That's Royalty. AND he's tail male Dark Ronald.

I would breed a WB mare to him in a heartbeat.

[not again]

This stallion stands at Mouse House Farm nearby for both thoroughbred and sport breeders:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/lyracist

He retired sound, and then was licensed by the AWR for warmblood breeding. He is quite a nice jumper.

[EquineLVR]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/lanciano

This guy was a G2 winner in Germany and now stands in Alberta. You could ship to him for JC papers or you could breed A1 to a CWBHA licensed stallion and go that way with the foal.

This is a nearly perfect TB sport horse sire pedigree if you look at how the Germans used TBs in their WB breeding. The line breeding is text book, and Surumu is the Sadlers Wells of German TB breeding. He's the damsire of Monsun and the sire of Acatenango. That's Royalty. AND he's tail male Dark Ronald.

I would breed a WB mare to him in a heartbeat.


Does he have a website? Or any confo pictures anywhere?

[beaulilly]

I've had my eye on this stallion for some time. He hasn't been used much since he was bought by a sport horse breeder way out in the middle of nowhere, which is a shame. I've heard through the grapevine his few kids out there are are awesome jumpers not sure how any fared on the track.

If he's still alive and kicking in two years I'd love to send my mare to him.

Mysterious Count on the stallion link: http://www.msstable.ca/

Pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/mysterious+count

My mare: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rainbow+lilly

[vineyridge]

This is what shows up in the CWBHA directory for him. No conformation photo, and the ones that are on the site are not good. I'm also not sure whether this is where he's currently standing. For some reason I have a (possibly mistaken) notion that he stands at a place with a very German name.
http://www.canadianwarmbloods.com/stalliondetail.php?horseid=1000132

BTW. the pedigree on the CWHBA (?) site is probably not correct. I've emailed the owners about it.

He's in the TB Times Stallion registry without a photo or a blurb.

[EquineLVR]

Here is one that is along the same lines as Lanciano.. but a race horse.. I REALLY Like him.

http://www.sugarmaplefarm.com/raffies-majesty2.shtml#pedigree

[vineyridge]

Here is one that is along the same lines as Lanciano.. but a race horse.. I REALLY Like him.

http://www.sugarmaplefarm.com/raffies-majesty2.shtml#pedigree

I like him too, but he isn't tail male to Dark Ronald. :winkgrin:

[bwf]

Eqlvr

I foaled out two Audited babies two years ago. One out of a TB mare. One out of a Paint mare. Both were very nice. I have not seen them this spring as two year old. As yearlings they were both huge. Both were bred to become Hunters.

[cloudyandcallie]

The europeans breed the best performance TBs, both on the flat and over fences, into their warmbloods to refine the WBs. Just go to allbreedpredigrees.com and see all the TB influence. However, in europe, unlike in American, the breeders don't go out and get cheap or free racehorses and breed them like some do here in America. I boarded at a barn once where the BO got free mares with bad conformation and no performance records, and bred them to good WB stallions, and got inferior "warmbloods", and then said they are as good as imported ones. Just read the disputes in the Chronicle letters to the editor and commentary. So choose a performance TB stud, and then your chances of getting a good performance horse are better. Some of the warmblood books have very interesting cross-breeding references, but I had to buy them cause I couldn't find them at libraries. Most of our european warmbloods are crossbred sports horses. My Hessen is 47% TB and 10% Arab, from all those TBs who were English and imported to Germany and Holland. The idea in europe is to breed the best to the best, regardless of breed, to get great sportshorses. Some Americans do this, but sadly some don't, and that is why the controversy of registration is going on in the Chronicle letters to the editor, since some people sell warmbloods here but no one can trace them back past the sire or dam or both. In europe they "cull" (read kill) the inferior foals.

[cloudyandcallie]

Hey it wasn't Seattle Slew's fault that he was quirkly and opinionated. I was lucky to have "Kick and Howl" until her death at 24 yrs of age, and she was totally opinionated, and quirkly and extremely intelligent, when I did something wrong she would correct me, and hot and totally inbred thru Nearco and Nasrullah on both sides. Her sire "Poker" was the sire of "My Charmer", dam of Seattle Slew. So that quirky-ness must have come from Round Table, sire of Poker................but worth it to have perfect conformation and opinionate horse. My mare's "tude was "do it right or she'd do it herself".:) I'm now looking for a mare just like she was.

[cloudyandcallie]

Hey it wasn't Seattle Slew's fault that he was quirkly and opinionated. I was lucky to have "Kick and Howl" until her death at 24 yrs of age, and she was totally opinionated, and quirkly and extremely intelligent, when I did something wrong she would correct me, and hot and totally inbred thru Nearco and Nasrullah on both sides. Her sire "Poker" was the sire of "My Charmer", dam of Seattle Slew. So that quirky-ness must have come from Round Table, sire of Poker................but worth it to have perfect conformation and opinionate horse. My mare's "tude was "do it right or she'd do it herself".:) I'm now looking for a mare just like she was.

[vineyridge]

Speaking of Poker, I recently read somewhere that he produced talented jumping horses.

If you look at his pedigree, you'll see why.