So what discipline will you do now that eventing is done for?

[ElfDr]

In light of the recent accidents and the continuing debate since 1996 as to whether or not Eventing should be an Olympic sport, we can safely say that we will not see the sport as we know it for much longer. This breaks my heart, but this is fact. Even the NY Times is in on the act with that god awful picture on the front page. So, fellow eventers, with a heavy, heavy heart, I ask this: where will you head next to persue your equestrian dreams or will you even compete at all?

[findeight]

I never did Event so will stay wiggling my ageing butt over little bitty Hunter jumps that FALL APART when struck by body parts.

New York Times has the photo? Too bad. Yeeech, who needs that with breakfast?

Much as I have been whining, don't think it needs to go away, think changes in jump design and materials would go a long way to solve the rotational falls. Accidents happen but they don't need to kill/badly injure so many.

[MunchingonHay]

you forgot Combined Carriage Driving. Eventers should switch to CDE's. It's a hell of a lot safer.

[TB or not TB?]

What picture?

[Larksmom]

Racing goes on, and there have been horrific accidents in front of people for many many years. I would argue, that there are many more cameras in racing. I watched both Ruffian and Go For Wand break down, GFW in front of the stands. I have followed racing since I was about 10 years old. Only recently have I not had to 'watch thru my fingers' after GFW. Worst mess ever. Racing goes on. Eventing will too.
BTW, I feel just awful for both riders over the loss of their precious best friends. I will also soon be planting flowers, [mentioned on another post], and that may seem a passive gesture, it is something to give joy, and not remember tragedy. :sadsmile:

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[jingles to both]]]]]]]]]]]]]

Janis

[Gnep]

Either you are an Eventer, or not, so that makes the posted question a dumm question for an Eventer.

[findeight]

But Racing is trying to do something (polyturf may not be the answer but it is a step in the right direction and in response to too many breakdowns) and has always kept statistics...they do not pretend it didn't happen it goes right on the charts as a DNF with the description "breakdown". There is no "oh they will be OK" when the screens go up.

Many states legislate safety measures at race tracks as a result of fatalities as well. Things like a safety rail inside for example.

OK, I'll say it, Eventing has clung to the solid and visually challenging jump construction that can cause catastrophic injury when struck. Why does that have to be?

But I am not an Eventer so don't get it...prefer to know if I miss a spot or make a mistake, I won't kill myself or my horse 99.9999% of the time.

[RunForIt]

I'm not "done with" eventing. Am focused on making the sport a safe one for horses. It'll then be safer for riders.

As much as I believe that this bulletin board is a safe place to air opinions, I do wish you had chosen a different time to run your poll. So many people are in pain right now - you'll have lots of time to do this.

[buschkn]

I don't think you are either an eventer or you're not. I used to be an eventer, and still love the sport, but after watching several horses die, I switched to jumpers. I think if you are such a die-hard eventer that the latest rash of tragedies has no effect on you, or doesn't make you pause in the slightest, other than to think "this is bad for my sport's image", then there is something wrong. 4 horses dead and 2 riders severly injured in 6 weeks is a problem.

[RiverBendPol]

Here's my answer:
What a stupid poll, and how incredibly stupid to post it TODAY.

[Gnep]

The posted question is just plain dumm, because it assumes something.

Naturally should give the accidents everybody a moment to pause, take a deep breath and think.

But opposite to the people who just quit or run away ( they never been Eventers anyhow, no big loss ) I decided to do something to help to prevent severe accidents in the future.

Findeight, wrong, 99.99999 % ?, were did you get that, couch potato expert !

[ToucheToujour]

I haven't evented in 4 yrs (horse retired due to injury, new horse does not do the whole wide open spaces idea) but I am an eventer. Through and through. Always will be. The eventing community is unlike any other...I wouldn't give it up for the world.

Giving up the sport is silly. Taking a step back and saying "How can we make it safer?" is smart.

We eventers might have a bunch of concussions and be known for being a little crazy and outlandish, but at the core, I have yet to meet an eventer who isn't pragmatic and sensible.

We will handle this. We can handle this.

[seeuatx]

I haven't evented in 4 yrs (horse retired due to injury, new horse does not do the whole wide open spaces idea) but I am an eventer. Through and through. Always will be. The eventing community is unlike any other...I wouldn't give it up for the world.

Ditto.

And I agree that racing goes on, and eventing *is* working on figuring out how to make things safe(r). For me safety is subjective.... my newspaper today read that a 16 year old girl in Eastern PA died of massive head injuries after falling off while riding in a ring.... and she was wearing a helmet. It is sad, and we all do what we can to lessen the risk, but a risk will always be there no matter what our sport.

[AppJumpr08]

But Racing is trying to do something


At least we eventers don't start competing our horses at 2 years old :rolleyes:


You are truly showing poor taste in posting this thread today.

Go back to your bridge, Troll.

[Hey Mickey]

Giving up the sport is silly. Taking a step back and saying "How can we make it safer?" is smart.

We eventers might have a bunch of concussions and be known for being a little crazy and outlandish, but at the core, I have yet to meet an eventer who isn't pragmatic and sensible.

We will handle this. We can handle this.
I totally agree.... 100%
The sport is not done with... although I forsee some changes in the near future.

[carolprudm]

I don't think you are either an eventer or you're not. I used to be an eventer, and still love the sport, but after watching several horses die, I switched to jumpers. I think if you are such a die-hard eventer that the latest rash of tragedies has no effect on you, or doesn't make you pause in the slightest, other than to think "this is bad for my sport's image", then there is something wrong. 4 horses dead and 2 riders severly injured in 6 weeks is a problem.

Same here. It's been longer than I care to admit since I have evented but I've always been an eventer at heart, but this is it for me.

It's the complete test, and the people and the governing bodies have failed it.

[bird4416]

Where is this New York Times picture. I tried to find it online and wasn't successful. Link anyone.

[LexInVA]

Where is this New York Times picture. I tried to find it online and wasn't successful. Link anyone.

I can't find anything recent (as in newer than several years ago) from them about Rolex TDE on their website.

[Kementari]

If every sport went away every time there were tragedies, we wouldn't have any sports left.

If anything, loosing Olympic status (if/when that happens) will, I believe, HELP the sport, as we would no longer have to kowtow to the IOC.

I'm an eventer, and I always will be. I don't think the sport is going anywhere. We do have to make it safer, and many, many people are working on that in various ways. Sure, the rash of accidents has given me pause and I understand it's bad for the image of the sport (though I care far more about the people and horses involved than the "image"...), but anyone who didn't realize BEFORE all this that eventing is dangerous and you or your horse CAN DIE didn't respect the sport enough to start with.

[lizathenag]

dressage and trail riding. . .

I might to some novice eventing again, but probably not.

[LexInVA]

If anything, loosing Olympic status (if/when that happens) will, I believe, HELP the sport, as we would no longer have to kowtow to the IOC.


It's not so much the IOC but the FEI and the international community that the USEF is beholden to. There are many in the upper echelons of the USEF and quite a few behind the USET who feel that gaining the respect of the Europeans who don't think very highly of us and particularly the FEI, who doesn't know what to do with us, is worth any price be it horse, rider, time, or money. They have this obsessive need to be recognized by the international equestrian community as a dominant equestrian powerhouse. While I would love to see them on the knees weeping about the loss of their dream, we can't really function without them until we have something else in place so we can kick them to the curb.

[Centuree]

Is this the NY Times link with the pictures everyone is talking about?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/sports/othersports/09equestrian.html

[RunForIt]

If every sport went away every time there were tragedies, we wouldn't have any sports left.

If anything, loosing Olympic status (if/when that happens) will, I believe, HELP the sport, as we would no longer have to kowtow to the IOC.

I'm an eventer, and I always will be. I don't think the sport is going anywhere. We do have to make it safer, and many, many people are working on that in various ways. Sure, the rash of accidents has given me pause and I understand it's bad for the image of the sport (though I care far more about the people and horses involved than the "image"...), but anyone who didn't realize BEFORE all this that eventing is dangerous and you or your horse CAN DIE didn't respect the sport enough to start with.

Yknow, I'll say this, I DIDN'T KNOW. I was too caught up in the absolute power of the athletes - equine and human - when I discovered eventing at the '96 Olympics. Bruce, David, Karen, Ian, ...Giltedge, Taylor...it didn't ENTER MY MIND that they could die.

and I think that part of the reason that it didn't is in my reality NO ONE would go into a sporting event knowing that doing what THEY love, they could kill an animal that they love.

I grew up.

[Reds-n-Greys]

Is this the NY Times link with the pictures everyone is talking about?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/sports/othersports/09equestrian.html

The picture in question is number 7 in the multamedia link, for horses and riders....

[Sassenach]

The picture in question is number 7 in the multamedia link, for horses and riders....


:no:

[arnika]

Thank goodness it was "just" that one.

I was afraid it was a pic of Laine and Frodo at the top of their fall.

[Kementari]

It's not so much the IOC but the FEI and the international community that the USEF is beholden to. There are many in the upper echelons of the USEF and quite a few behind the USET who feel that gaining the respect of the Europeans who don't think very highly of us and particularly the FEI, who doesn't know what to do with us, is worth any price be it horse, rider, time, or money. They have this obsessive need to be recognized by the international equestrian community as a dominant equestrian powerhouse. While I would love to see them on the knees weeping about the loss of their dream, we can't really function without them until we have something else in place so we can kick them to the curb.

This is true. On the other hand, I do wonder how much the FEI has messed with the non-Olympic FEI disciplines. Have they screwed up driving and vaulting and reining like they have eventing? (On the other hand, have they screwed up dressage and sj like eventing?...Maybe we're just "special"... :dead: ) To me - and maybe I'm misremembering! - the whole short format debacle, though driven by the FEI, was FOR the Olympics. And while I don't think if we were out of the Olympics after 08 it would make everything revert immediately back to "the good old days" (which, of course, had their problems, too), at least it might take away some of the motivation to continue making dramatic changes without research and thought (beyond the almighty dollar).

Yknow, I'll say this, I DIDN'T KNOW. I was too caught up in the absolute power of the athletes - equine and human - when I discovered eventing at the '96 Olympics. Bruce, David, Karen, Ian, ...Giltedge, Taylor...it didn't ENTER MY MIND that they could die.

But there's a difference between spectating and competing. I don't expect the spectators - some of whom aren't even particularly horsey - to know. But I do expect the competitors to know, and if they don't (at least the majority of them), then somewhere there is something else seriously wrong.

Horses (and riders) die in EVERY discipline, including hanging out in the pasture - so if you never want to endanger your horse, you'd better never own one. That may sound callous, and I assure you that I love my horses and that all my worst fears about riding involve THEM being injured, not me (I worry about me, too, but I worry about them more). But I still go into the start box KNOWING that one or the other of us may not make it to the other end in the same shape we started - or even alive. And that's even at the lower levels, where the risk is smaller, but still exists (heck, I had a near-rotational fall once cantering on the flat - luckily the physics weren't quite right, though apparently it was close, and I had only a broken collarbone and the horse was fine).

I love eventing, and my horses love eventing (or else I'd find other careers for them that they DID love). And we need to do as much as we can to reduce the risks to everyone involved. But it will ALWAYS be dangerous, and everyone who goes to the start box - heck, everyone who goes to the dressage warmup! - should know that, and should have known that from day 1. Only by acknowledging the dangers can we work to mitigate them, both as individuals (by better riding, more sensible judgement calls, and more) and as a group (with safer fence construction, tighter safety rules, etc).

[hedmbl]

I never did Event so will stay wiggling my ageing butt over little bitty Hunter jumps that FALL APART when struck by body parts.

New York Times has the photo? Too bad. Yeeech, who needs that with breakfast?

Much as I have been whining, don't think it needs to go away, think changes in jump design and materials would go a long way to solve the rotational falls. Accidents happen but they don't need to kill/badly injure so many.

:yes:

I've never evented due to the high risk to both parties involved but I compete in the high jr/ams jumpers, I like knowing that if I miss the jump will come down. There is risk in every discipline but having non-moveable jumps just increases that risk to a degree that I, personally, can not understand or jusitify. Seeing things like this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=F0jQ1SjFO1U

just reinforce that feeling and makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. Note: Some pretty bad falls in the video as a disclaimer.

I can, however, see both sides of the issue as my roomate events through Intermediate. She, too, agrees there needs to be an overhaul of safety but of course hopes the recent tragedies don't lead to a ban of the sport in general.

To me it's just not worth the risk and I sincerely hope the eventing community makes some drastic changes after yet another tragic weekend.

[TB or not TB?]

Now, I'm probably one of the more outspoken folks on this board about safety, so don't think that I am trying to shove things under the rug. I cried about Frodo last night and cried this morning about Quiet man. In a way, I can't believed I'm posting this....

However, how many horses die EVERY DAY from starvation, from neglect? From pasture accidents? MANY more than the handful each year in eventing. While I think any death in sport is unacceptable, eventing is working on cleaning up its act. Let's not forget that a new study was just initiated for EIPH in eventing.

Before the inevitable flames start about how eventers are abusive and inhuman, let's save our anger for those who let their horses starve to death in a stall, or breed anything with a uterus. Those are the real monsters in the industry, not the wonderful kid and her beautiful horse who tried their hearts out doing what they both loved, and had a tragic accident. And remember, we're working on how to eliminate even the accidents.

[retreadeventer]

4 horses dead and 2 riders severly injured in 6 weeks is a problem.

Just wondering how many horses die in the course of say, Wellington or other big multi week long hunter type show -- exactly how many, not how many nobody knows about -- and how many riders fall and get hurt in those shows schooling or whatever. Just wondering.

[TeddyRocks]

In light of the recent accidents and the continuing debate since 1996 as to whether or not Eventing should be an Olympic sport, we can safely say that we will not see the sport as we know it for much longer. This breaks my heart, but this is fact. Even the NY Times is in on the act with that god awful picture on the front page. So, fellow eventers, with a heavy, heavy heart, I ask this: where will you head next to persue your equestrian dreams or will you even compete at all?

What picture?

[hedmbl]

Just wondering how many horses die in the course of say, Wellington or other big multi week long hunter type show -- exactly how many, not how many nobody knows about -- and how many riders fall and get hurt in those shows schooling or whatever. Just wondering.

I've been riding and competeing on the AA H/J circuit for 16 years now at the multi week and multi month shows. I have only been at one show in which a horse died in the ring and it was from a brain aneurysm during his courtesty circle prior to beginning a 2 ft hunter course. I'm sure it has happened other times but it is very rare...it's almost expected now a days in upper level eventing, though.

As far as rider injuries, they too pale in comparison to eventing with the majority of injuries being minor with occasional concussions, the frequency of serious injuries is way less then what eventing has deal with. I've only been injured in one show in which I broke my wrist after falling into a jump (that collpased) after a stop. The rate of fatal injuries are greatly reduced simply b/c our jumps collapse and therefore we do not have rotational falls (or horse falls in general, really...it's quite rare to see a horse fall in the hunter/jumper ring barring a slip in the mud through the corners), nine times out of ten the rider is thrown clear and the horse is unharmed.

It would be interesting to see side by side stats b/t the disciplines but I think simply the fact that stats like that are not prevelant in the H/J community speaks volumes.

[buschkn]

Just wondering how many horses die in the course of say, Wellington or other big multi week long hunter type show -- exactly how many, not how many nobody knows about -- and how many riders fall and get hurt in those shows schooling or whatever. Just wondering.

I don't know, I've never been to Wellington. But what I am saying is this- it's a matter of numbers. Of course horses die in other sports, and in the pasture, and etc etc etc. BUT, how many entries were at Rolex? 40=ish. and 2 horses died due to injuries sustained on XC. That's 5%. Obviously atypical. But with 10,000 or so horses at WEF every year, that would be 500 horses dying from injuries sustained while competing. Not a chance. And a French horse died at an event recently as well, do that's actually 5 in 6 weeks. :(

I am not suggesting that eventing should be banned. It was VERY hard for me to give it up, there is no better community in the world. I just happen to know that I could not accept it if my horse were killed. So, I made that decision.

I just get frustrated to hear some people, not saying you guys, try to just write it off and say, well that's the price of sport, or horses die anyway, or people get killed in car wrecks, etc. The point is not to divert attention and show other ways that tragedy can occur. The point is to try and make the sport safe enough that these statistics are more acceptable, and our horses and riding friends aren't dying every week.

[Thomas_1]

Who said eventing was done for???

Get yourselves over to Europe. Its alive and kicking over here.

[Larksmom]

Yknow, I'll say this, I DIDN'T KNOW. I was too caught up in the absolute power of the athletes - equine and human - when I discovered eventing at the '96 Olympics. Bruce, David, Karen, Ian, ...Giltedge, Taylor...it didn't ENTER MY MIND that they could die.

and I think that part of the reason that it didn't is in my reality NO ONE would go into a sporting event knowing that doing what THEY love, they could kill an animal that they love.

I grew up.
and your signature line is team Barbaro?!?!

[TB or not TB?]

I just get frustrated to hear some people, not saying you guys, try to just write it off and say, well that's the price of sport, or horses die anyway, or people get killed in car wrecks, etc. The point is not to divert attention and show other ways that tragedy can occur. The point is to try and make the sport safe enough that these statistics are more acceptable, and our horses and riding friends aren't dying every week.

We find it frustrating too. That's why we're working hard to change it.

[hedmbl]

Who said eventing was done for???

Get yourselves over to Europe. Its alive and kicking over here.

Why is that? Fewer deaths? Less injuries? Less public concern in general?

I'm not an eventer and don't realy follow it much excpet for the high profile events so what exactly is Europe doing differently? Or is it simply less public protest?

[hedmbl]

Who said eventing was done for???

Get yourselves over to Europe. Its alive and kicking over here.

Why is that? Fewer deaths? Less injuries? Less public concern in general?

I'm not an eventer and don't really follow it much excpet for the high profile events so what exactly is Europe doing differently? Or is it simply less public protest?

[magnolia73]

I don't think there is exactly "protest" over eventing deaths in the US. Discourse and complaint online, but no actual protest. Though I in my own little protest skipped spectating at the Fork.

To me, there is a difference between a horse dying a HJ show due to mismanagement or drugging or insurance scam or whatever bad stereotype we choose. Eventing at the highest levels has turned me off because it is creating courses that are becoming too challenging for many horses and riders. We complain about underprepared riders and horses- but these are solid teams. Yeah- XC needs to matter, horses are getting better- but at some point responsibility needs to come into play and realize that there is a point of difficulty that can not be safely surpassed. IMO, we have passed it. Yeah- it can't be 100% safe. There will be accidents. But Rolex- the premiere event in the US has cost 4 out of what, 100 horses their lives in the past 2 years, not to mention the cost of career ending injuries that may have occured. There are studies, but how about temporarily notching back the courses until we understand the pulmonary and rotational falls better?

[Sannois]

Here's my answer:
What a stupid poll, and how incredibly stupid to post it TODAY.
What an assanine poll!
Amazing! :no:

[Kementari]

As far as rider injuries, they too pale in comparison to eventing with the majority of injuries being minor with occasional concussions, the frequency of serious injuries is way less then what eventing has deal with. I've only been injured in one show in which I broke my wrist after falling into a jump (that collpased) after a stop.

And the only injury I've ever sustained while eventing (in competition or schooling, actually) was a mildly sprained thumb when my horse refused and I jammed my thumb on his neck as I reached to balance myself. I wrapped it and rode xc the next day... So by that theory, eventing is even safer than h/j.

I don't think anyone is saying that eventing is safe (I sure as heck hope no one is). But I also hope no one is deluding themselves with the idea that you can participate in ANY horse sport and not be risking your own and your mount's lives and health. The risk certainly varies, but it exists across the board.

[Foxtrot's]

That's a pretty pessimistic first post. I do think that a priority should be to make jumps safer, tracks less tricky and stiff upgrading criteria before riders or horses can go up a level. Accidents do happen and right now everyone is very raw and emotional - time will come for analysis and improvement. For myself, the spirit of eventing is refreshing compared to the "other two" disciplines, the people more caring and helpful and while the tears may flow more often, so do the laughs and the commeraderie.

I was reading the reports as they came in on COTH and was excited, then tearful, but thanks everyone who took the effort to report in.

[hedmbl]

And the only injury I've ever sustained while eventing (in competition or schooling, actually) was a mildly sprained thumb when my horse refused and I jammed my thumb on his neck as I reached to balance myself. I wrapped it and rode xc the next day... So by that theory, eventing is even safer than h/j.

I don't think anyone is saying that eventing is safe (I sure as heck hope no one is). But I also hope no one is deluding themselves with the idea that you can participate in ANY horse sport and not be risking your own and your mount's lives and health. The risk certainly varies, but it exists across the board.

Yes, I didn't explain myself very well. Of course there is an inherent risk in all riding disciplines (as has been said countless times already). My point is why up the odds of death/injuries so greatly by introducing non break away fences at high speeds?

Serious injuries are far less common in the H/J world then in the eventing world at the highest levels of competition. The only one that really springs to mind as far as resulting casualties go is Royal Kaliber at the last Olympics who was injured due to poor footing and was eventually euthanized due to complications, nothing to do with dangerous fences or even a rider miscalculation. Yes, people fall off and get hurt, yes sometimes a horse gets injured but those cases are very far between in comparison to the eventing world. As many have pointed out Rolex (a single event) has seen the death of 4 horses in the last two years...as far as I know all of Grand Prix showjumping hasn't seen the death of even one horse or rider in that same time period on course....and for that matter has eventing even seen a death in the SJ ring lately? As someone else pointed out I do not watch Grand Prix's at Wellington every year and think 'oh god, someone might die today' but when I watch Rolex, Badminton, Burghley, etc that is exactly what I'm thinking.

ETA: As I stated earlier I don't necessarily want the sport to be 'banned' I just would like to see some more precautions put in place. There has been some good brainstorming going on on this board alone, I hope it extends to the upper ranks of officials as well.

[RunForIt]

and your signature line is team Barbaro?!?!

I think my post mentioned the 96 Olympics...THAT'S when I first saw eventing, was so awed by the sport, and had no idea of its history - just that I loved watching the horses and riders; wanted to do the same stuff!

I wasn't around the sport beyond Tadpole and BN enough in the next years to learn about the risk to the horses...naive, I know.

I don't attend or watch horse racing.

[Vegas Sky]

1) To the OP, in the kindest way I can say this, what a distasteful and childish thing to do. On the day after two tragic accidents, it only shows a lack of concern and proper thought. THIS is the type of speculating and discourse that WILL actually lead to the end of the sport if nothing else is done to save it. So my suggestion is to instead of quietly accept demise, actually do something to prevent it.

2) To everyone else, I congratulate you. What a wonderful discussion of the topics at hand. This is what we need! We need people working together to figure out what needs to be done to save our sport. Do we need a break from the IOC the FEI or even USEF? What needs to be done to make our sport safer? We need to stand together and promote the welfare of our horses and ourselves, because when we do that, we then promote the welfare of our sport.

I refuse to stand by and watch the end come at me. I WILL see eventing continue on until the day I die.

[Thomas_1]

Why is that? Fewer deaths? Less injuries? Less public concern in general?

I'm not an eventer and don't really follow it much excpet for the high profile events so what exactly is Europe doing differently? Or is it simply less public protest? Perhaps because we've got a perspective and understand that whilst eventing is and always has been a risk sport that accidents are actually on the decrease even despite the recent spate in rotational falls.

[Tasker]

I used to event quite a bit and loved every minute of it. Then one day at Fair Hill (doing YR OP FWIW) about 10 years ago I was jumping in stadium and it occurred to me over a simple vertical that people die doing this sport. I still jump and fox hunt but no more eventing for me.

I dedicated myself to dressage and now have my Silver & Gold medals. In case anyone is wondering, upper level dressage has plenty of adrenaline and excitement! :) :yes: Just hop on an experienced Grand Prix horse and start messing around a bit - press the wrong buttons (they actually have them) and all sorts of exciting and semi-dangerous things can happen! :D It is a whole different philosophical state and can be ever so much fun to teach your horse all that stuff.

And if you are wondering, I still fall off from time to time and it still hurts just as much as it always did...

Watching paint dry...*snort* well, maybe at the lower levels with poor riding!

On a serious note - my thoughts and prayers go out to all of those who experienced loss & the tragedies at Rolex.

[Blugal]

Comparing disciplines isn't productive. There are risk sports & some people choose to participate in them. Of course we need to look at ALL the data and try to minimize catastrophic injuries and deaths. But we can't take the "risk" out of "risk sport" or it will cease to be "fun".

[flyingchange]

blugal - give me an effing break. deaths out hunting are quite a rare occurence. and I do get horse and hound in the mail every week.

[Blugal]

Well define "rare", and numbers. Tasker was basically saying "eventing is so dangerous, I decided to do dressage and hunting instead". Well, hunting is dangerous too - there are fixed obstacles and terrain, & people and horses die.

[HECS04]

I agree with the comparing disciplines thing....every time you get on (or even around) a horse you are at risk and there will always be adrenaline flowing when you are doing what you love....
We need to remember we are not just the eventing community, hunting community, h/j community, dressage community, polo community, endurance community (and so on...) we are the Equestrian Community! We all ride because of the respect we have for our teammate, best friend and partner...the respect we have for our horses!

[Raison d'etre]

I'm not sure I want to join the H/J world if this is their reaction to us eventers: http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=145122

Goodness...

[Kcisawesome]

In light of recent events I have thought out my decision in great depths and have decided that for the better health and well being of my horse, I will continue to event.

IN MY OPINION, these upper level event horses are some of the healthiest, happiest and greatest cared for horses you will find. The sport takes a horse's natural instincts, teaches the horse trust and then gives him an outlet. Those horses were having a BALL in xc stadium today. Some of them were in fact tired and "done" but some were just playing around. In HONOR of the horses and riders who were hurt doing what they loved. I stand firmly when I say that I will continue to event and aim my horse and I for the top of this sport.

It is a bit like parenting these days. A kid falls and breaks his neck on the monkey bars, then, suddenly every kid is fat and depressed because there parents refuse to let them outside where they might get hurt.

I will not do nothing however, I belive that there are many improvements that can be made and should be made and WILL be made to protect the horses and riders as best we can. But, Today I also heard a story from a friend of a horse who died running into a tree in turnout. Should I refuse to turn my horse out? Am I a bad owner for riding my horse in the woods where there are trees?

I admire thorse 4 star horses and riders in the utmost way. And I will dedicate my life to someday be like them. And as long as I'm still around, eventing will be too.

[ElfDr]

My intent of posting this thread was to get the essentially reaction I have gotten: A discussion about how to save eventing from a end that we all, if only for a brief second, must have seen coming in light of the recent events. The picture in question is indeed already referenced. Here's a link:
http://www.cmannphoto.com/Images/Home/4aog5803.jpg
It was run on the actual front page of NY Times the day that the article was run. I am not trying to be a troll but merely insight a passionate discussion. Mission accomplished.

[Blugal]

Neither horse nor rider was injured in that picture, which was taken at the Athens Games.

[SR Rider]

I had to give up eventing two years ago after a bad fall and an additional fall could
be catestrophic for me...but if someone said I had six months to live give me a horse
and a cross country course....nothing like it; I still have beautiful dreams about the feeling
of hi.tting a jump just right ad flying over it. Nothing sweeter or more thrilling. I hope those of us who love our sport can work together to make it safer not to put it under.

[Bluehorsesjp]

"The only one that really springs to mind as far as resulting casualties go is Royal Kaliber at the last Olympics who was injured due to poor footing and was eventually euthanized due to complications, nothing to do with dangerous fences or even a rider miscalculation. "

Royal Kaliber was euthanized because of colic, not because of the injuries he sustained during the Olympics. The colic occurred during his stall rest months after the actual event.

[Larksmom]

I seem to remember about 10-15 years ago, an Austrian girl/woman, was riding her champion ALONE at home, and I think he might have had a heart attack and died. Well, when he went down, she was under him, couldn't get out and I believe died. Terrible unfortunate accident.
It seems to me, [IMHO], the real trouble started with the short format. There have been accidents as far back as it goes, but they have really been piling up since Athens, and btw, there have been several deaths in Europe due to eventing in the last several years. Mostly riders rather than horses.

[melodiousaphony]

Practice dressage, have fun over fences, condition, and go cross country schooling.

Going to the actual event is such a small percentage of being an eventer that I think I'd keep doing what I want to do whether or not I have an official venue.

[not again]

Grand Prix dressage can be really exciting if the horse is having a bad day.;)

[Adamantane]

Here's my answer:
What a stupid poll, and how incredibly stupid to post it TODAY.

Have only read the thread this far but I couldn't agree more. Besides begging the question, OP has taken refuge behind an alter.

I expect as I read on that RiverBendPol will be anything but alone.

[hedmbl]

"The only one that really springs to mind as far as resulting casualties go is Royal Kaliber at the last Olympics who was injured due to poor footing and was eventually euthanized due to complications, nothing to do with dangerous fences or even a rider miscalculation. "

Royal Kaliber was euthanized because of colic, not because of the injuries he sustained during the Olympics. The colic occurred during his stall rest months after the actual event.

Yes, that's what I meant by complications and that it had nothing to do with the danger of the sport..I suppose I should have clarified with 'complications of stall rest'.

[cmannphoto]

The photo that you are referring to is one that I took at the 2004 Olympics in Athens. Both the horse and rider were not injured by this fall. The NY Times photo editor and the copy editor both checked with me as to the condition of the pair. I received a lot a grief from several people about me licensing the image to the NY Times. At the time I talked to the photo editor, he did not think the image would be on the cover the NEW YORK CITY Edition and not the National Edition.

BTW, this same photo and the 4 preceding images ran larger in the 2004/2005 L’Annee Hippique “Olympic Edition” why is it ok here and not in the NY Times?

http://www.nytimes.com/indexes/2008/04/09/pageone/scan/index.html

One thing that a lot of you do not grasp is the need of a newspaper to GRAB the attention of the reader, which is especially important with subscriptions falling with all print media. This images is just like a car accident along a highway, where everyone slows down to take a look. The strangest thing is with a car wreck you don’t know the condition of the people involved. Here you do.

FINDEIGHT made the comment:

New York Times has the photo? Too bad. Yeeech, who needs that with breakfast?
My question is if this is “Yeeech” and you don’t want to see this at breakfast then the shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald should not have been on the cover of almost every newspaper in the country, or the “Fire on Marlborough Street!” with a woman and child falling from a fire escape?
http://www.worldsfamousphotos.com/fire-on-marlborough-street-1975.html
What about the execution of the Viet Cong prisoner in 1969?
I am hearing a double standard, where it is ok for other real life tragedy is ok to print but not an Eventing crash. If I photographed Laine’s fall I would have made the image of the beginning of the fall available. I would not make available images of them on the ground. With that note, Laine’s attending doctor asked if any of the photographers had images of the fall and one did. He wanted to view them to understand the trauma she received. The photographer complied with his wish and shows him the sequence. In the past I have been asked this same thing from Darren in 2001 at Fox Hall after his fall. On Saturday night this photographer was upset and asked for guidance with what to do with the images. If they deleted them the doctor might not have been able to understand how she received the trauma she did.
The Lexington Herald Leader ran a photo of The Quiet Man’s fall, similar to the one I have.
http://www.kentucky.com/624/story/388577.html

Is this wrong of them to do since the horse was put down?

As I commented in the original thread about the NY Times article I believe the sport needs to be more pro active with safety requirements even if it makes some people upset.

One last thing, if you look to the right of these posts you see a list of advertisers. One of them is Horse Source Photos, if you click on their link and look at their home page you see several links one of which is named “Oops” that has a photo of an Eventer falling from their horse. If you click on that link you are presented with 16 images of various cross country falls of varying severity. Is this wrong to show these images?

Charles Mann
www.cmannphoto.com

[LE]

carriage driving is even more dangerous than eventing. My coach's brother in law does this and said its very, very dangerous.

There are no equine sports that are risk free, unless you watch it on tv.

Instead of giving up on our sport, I think we need to impliment safety in regards to making sure horses and riders are up to the challenge.

[Foxtrot's]

I think there is a statistic that goes something like only l0% of riders in every level go on to the next level. And less as we go up the levels.

That leaves lots and lots of room at the bottom for tons of people to really enjoy eventing - no reason to give it up. Few of us aspire to the levels of courage and dedication it takes to go Intermediate,
Advanced and into ****.

It truly is a sport for an all-round horseman/woman. The people are second to none, as are the horses.

Not sure why I wrote this - just to say hang in there and ride as well as you can and not get discouraged right now, even though it is tough times. I am truly thinking of the people who are going through all of this and offering my sympathy and careing.











a

[TB or not TB?]

So what discipline will you do now that eventing is done for.

S&M, so I can still get a rush and have a use for my crop. :lol:

[LiveToFly]

I'm not sure I want to join the H/J world if this is their reaction to us eventers: http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=145122

Goodness...

yeah, no one supported what she had to say, even the h/j people

[CarrieK]

S&M, so I can still get a rush and have a use for my crop. :lol:
Bwahahahaha! And I was thinking on going over to rhythmic gymnastics so I could use my polo wraps and tail-bags, but your idea is much better!

In light of the recent accidents and the continuing debate since 1996 as to whether or not Eventing should be an Olympic sport, we can safely say that we will not see the sport as we know it for much longer.
Hmm, 1996, 2008--that's a heck of a long death knell. "The sport as we know it" has already changed significantly in the past few years, and yep, there will be continuing changes. But will it die? Will there be no hold-outs, no folks who keep on keeping on? I don't believe that for a moment.

[Rye]

"watching paint dry?", butt-wiggling 101?

Sorry, but I am life long horsewoman and I find this poll offensive to all horse people. Is this your knee-jerk reaction to trying to draw the attention away from the reality that eventing seems like it's spun out of control?

I am a hunter/jumper person, grew up riding 4-H and western and I fail to see how casting stones at other disciplines that people enjoy is productive.

Dressage is damn hard, riding a perfect hunter round is damn hard, riding a winning jumper round is damn hard,.....etc.

If your sport is broken, fix it and quit poking holes in other people's joy with their horses.

[CANTEREOIN]

Cheese - making... with a little wine.

[c_expresso]

Take it with a grain of salt, it is a bit funny! Obviously not serious either.

"watching paint dry?", butt-wiggling 101?

Sorry, but I am life long horsewoman and I find this poll offensive to all horse people. Is this your knee-jerk reaction to trying to draw the attention away from the reality that eventing seems like it's spun out of control?

I am a hunter/jumper person, grew up riding 4-H and western and I fail to see how casting stones at other disciplines that people enjoy is productive.

Dressage is damn hard, riding a perfect hunter round is damn hard, riding a winning jumper round is damn hard,.....etc.

If your sport is broken, fix it and quit poking holes in other people's joy with their horses.

[Rye]

Nothing about what has happened lately in eventing is funny and making cavalier plans to flock to other disciplines (while mocking them at the same time) is not the answer either.

People and horses are dying, fix your sport and then enjoy it.

[Pixie Dust]

in answer to the OP's question, I have just entered my first horse trials in 5 years. A weeee BN starter trials, so I'm quite confident that the only danger I will encounter is the drive to and from the event.

[Mozart]

I don't event anymore but it was my first love and like all first loves it continued to feel for the sport. And I continued to support it. I have organized events, I have officiated at events and I continued to volunteer at events.

But that's it, I am done. I can't support this sport anymore. If my only alternative is dressage (aka watching paint dry) so be it.

I'm going to think about Rolex 2008 next time I'm about to get all high and mighty about the Omak Suicide Race.

[Hidden]

While I'm as upset and unhappy as any about the deaths and injuries and poor responses.. this sort of thing and the HJ forum have made me even more determined to event and do well. I'm going to get more hard headed about this goal and less weenie and those that throw crap can expect some to come sailing back at em! I'm all for fixes and want some action... but can't stand the sideliners.

[Daatje]

Practice dressage, have fun over fences, condition, and go cross country schooling.

Going to the actual event is such a small percentage of being an eventer that I think I'd keep doing what I want to do whether or not I have an official venue.

Yup, couldn't agree more.

[CarrieK]

Cheese - making... with a little wine.

http://www.toydreamer.com.au/smurfs/super40221.jpg

[DizzyMagic]

Thank you! I needed to laugh!!

[DizzyMagic]

Ok, I just read some of the posts on this thread and I think you need to add a category: Over-reacting to dark humor/tongue-in-cheek posts on Eventing bulletin board. Apparently a lot of folks would sign up for that one!

[Aimee Thanatogenus]

Here's my answer:
What a stupid poll, and how incredibly stupid to post it TODAY.

Pretty much my sentiments exactly. Really a very stupid poll.