Weird color - champagne or smokey black?

[Oakstable]

I have a Pablo filly who has an odd color. She was born the color of a mouse, and I expected black eventually, but she is still the color of a metallicy mouse. She is coming two.

I put a photo of her in my new blog.

www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

Is this champagne or smokey black? or a light liver?

Her dam is a classic black/brown with tan at the muzzle.

Pablo is a bay, of course.

[amdfarm]

I would say she's bay. Only color possibilities for that combination are black, bay, chestnut. Have to have a cream or champagne parent in order to make those colors. She looks to have a black forelock and isn't reddish/brown enough to be chestnut. Does she have black points on her legs to go w/ the black forelock? Hard to tell by just a face pic, too.

[RiddleMeThis]

Just looks bay to me.

[Oakstable]

I put up another photo of her the day she was born. It shows her mother, too.

If she is a bay, it is an odd shade.

She is shedding out now and the color is a very pale metallic liver.

I don't have a lot of photos from her yearling year.

[RiddleMeThis]

She looks bay to me in the baby picture as well.

[pintopiaffe]

From the closeup pic she looks like perhaps wild bay.

Foal pic looks bay...

Though 'black-brown' or whatever we used to call it, can have some odd fading in the sun, and you're in SUN country. ;) We had a 'black-bay' who was black in winter but with pangere (mealy) mouth. In summer, in use (i.e. sweating) he'd look practically buckskin.

The metallic sheen is probably just good health. ;)

[NoDQhere]

We have a mare who is "wild bay' and looks buckskin but probably isn't. Her offspring, also wild bays, have that metallic sheen. Very pretty, but still just bay, genetically speaking :)

[Oakstable]

Ok, I think she is a "lite" version of her mother's color -- brown. I don't know what smokey black looks like. Bonnie has carmel coloring around her nose. Her mother has no metallic sheen but Bonnie has it. The other two Mariah kids - both different shades of bay - don't have any metallic look.

I don't think Mariah has a chestnut gene. She's been bred to Iroko twice and produced bays.

Bonnie's winter coat is coming off now and she hasn't had a chance for sun to affect her coat -- yet. I am going to do some serious grooming and take pix of her coat.

[Oakstable]

I've never heard of "wild bay."

Bonnie does look almost buckskin (she is DNA tested, she is a Pablo/Mariah daughter).

I put up one more photo from last year. The color is reminisicent of a body-clipped bay.

[darkmoonlady]

She's bay, there is no cream or champagne in her pedigree from what I can see. She looks like she just got that interesting metallic sheen some horses get. It comes from the hair havng a somewhat different structure/texture that refracts light differently than horses that don't have it. It isn't breed or genetic specific that I've seen just a spin of the wheel of luck. She is beautiful though...
I found a website that has a reference pic of a horse someone thinks carries a "satin" gene (never heard of it before) but they look sort of like your horse...

http://www.homozygous-horses.com/weird.html

[Oakstable]

I was thinking through my herd -- past and present -- and I have one other horse who gets a metallic look to her coat. She is chestnut and one of her three kids is by Pablo. I'm pretty sure he has a bit of the metallic glow though maybe not as strongly as his mom.

It'd be interesting if this quality is coming through on other Pablo kids.

It's the glow that you get with an Akhal-Teke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhal-Teke

[vxf111]

I think she's bay, just sort of an unusual shiny/light colored bay.

Shane is bay. In the winter he has a traditional dark bay coat (thought he has chestnut hair in his tail, go fig whatever that means) when he sheds out, he's a similar shiny/light/nearly buckskin color as your mare (your mare seems to be a bit lighter even than Shane)...

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/Sustained/?action=view&current=Shane009.jpg

Whatever her color, she's a nice mare! :)

[Oakstable]

"The Trakehner has also been influenced by the Akhal-Teke, most notably by the stallion Turkmen-Atti" ....

... from the article on Wikipedia.

Pablo has Trakehner in his pedigree. My glowy Lucy is an imported Trakehner.

My two kids with The Sheen are by Pablo. One is out of Lucy. The other is out of a Dutch mare with Trakehner in her sire line.

Wonder if the Akhal-Teke is WAY back there somewhere.

[JB]

Wild Bay is when the black points on the legs get pushed down to around the fetlock, instead of coming up closer to, or over the knees and hocks. The shade can vary as with other normal bay shades.

I think Bonnie is brown, not bay. Browns can indeed have that grayish tinge to them, though they certainly don't have to.

Do you have a better full body shot of her?

[Oakstable]

I don't have a full body shot, yet.
She is molting. Badly.

I did put up a photo of her 3/4 sister, Abigail. Anyone see a metallic look in her coat?

[Horsecrazy27]

I was thinking through my herd -- past and present -- and I have one other horse who gets a metallic look to her coat. She is chestnut and one of her three kids is by Pablo. I'm pretty sure he has a bit of the metallic glow though maybe not as strongly as his mom.

It'd be interesting if this quality is coming through on other Pablo kids.

It's the glow that you get with an Akhal-Teke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhal-Teke

Mine too! He has an aradecent "glow" to his bay color. Check him out. As you move around him, he looks like a high gloss silver, then as the light changes, he can be gold---then a plain bay. I posted before on him. He is by Pablo, out of a Fiener Stern/First Class mare. (chestnut--liver). He does have a very "fine" texture to his hair, but I have only seen the Russian horses with this color! :) Very nice!

http://hollidaysporthorses.com/pharamirpage.html

[Oakstable]

I put up a couple other photos of iridescent coats.

[amdfarm]

Abigail is a lovely girl!! From the other pics you put up of Bonnie, I'm going to go w/ black bay/brown. She's just an odd shade of it. Interesting. All of my black bays look like her dam and are so hard to tell apart.

[Oakstable]

Bonnie has kind of a taupe color to her face like in the photos. Her butt cheeks have shed out and they are taupe. I didn't do the weekend grooming I intended so I'll have to see what her barrel is looking like this coming week since the winter coat is coming off, finally.

Sister Abigail is always a bright red bay with black stockings.

Mom was bred to Lordship so this upcoming May foal should look just like Mariah and Lordship, almost black with the mealy mouth accent.

[amdfarm]

Maybe she's black bay/brown w/ the mealy accents all over instead of in the usual places? :winkgrin: Ya never know.

[ise@ssl]

Black bay

[okggo]

I agree with darkmoonlady. There was a thread on this not too long ago. Plus, horses shedding out their winter coats and in good health tend to have that crazy glow to them. So if you have both going on they seem to glow in the dark.

I have a seal brown mare with the softest silkiest fur. She has that eerie glow to her and she also has white hairs all throughout her body.

http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii170/okgottago/?action=view&current=IMG_4269.jpg
http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii170/okgottago/?action=view&current=IMG_4657.jpg

Regardless,
Lovely color on your gal!

[Ladybug Hill]

She really just looks bay to me--maybe the black bay.

A similar color to mine maybe: http://ladybughillfarm.com/fancyedition.htm

[JB]

I put up a couple other photos of iridescent coats.

The chestnut is still "just" a chestnut, but is of that coppery shade that positively glows naturally. It would be interesting to look at some of the hairs to see if the hair shaft is hollow, as that is what makes the Akhal-Teke's glow.

[Oakstable]

Bonnie shed a lot over the weekend and her body is going to be an interesting shade of chocolate with the mocha face. It's going to be different and very pretty.

Her winter coat was just awful, very thick and she looked like a brown bear.

[JB]

Here is a picture of a horse who tests for brown (new test, not sure if it's available publically yet or not)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/65459/Others%20horses/Jessie%20J%20Slidesagain/Jessie1-7-06_2884.jpg

Pretty textbook brown color - not too light, not too dark. This is why I say Sally's filly is brown.

[amdfarm]

She really just looks bay to me--maybe the black bay.

A similar color to mine maybe: http://ladybughillfarm.com/fancyedition.htm

She is what my black bay/brown boys look like. The oldest one almost has a brindled look to him, but I know he's not brindle... though it would be cool!

Kona is a pretty girl.

[Oakstable]

I put up another photo of my filly with the unusual brown color. It's in my blog.

Her barn name is Bon Bon, appropriate to her chocolate hue.

A few photos down.

www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

[BravAddict]

Can I get more information on that brown test? JB how did you hear about this mare testing for brown?

As a matter of interest, I looked up satin in mice: http://www.informatics.jax.org/javawi2/servlet/WIFetch?page=alleleDetail&key=1194

To summarize: Satin in mice is a recessive deletion that affects Foxq1 (forkhead box Q1), which is a member of a family of proteins that regulate genes that control cell processes. That doesn't really mean much even to me, but consider that there are Foxa through Foxr...so they do stuff. Anyways, as each hair grows, it is supposed to use keratin to form interlocking links and such. With 2 copies of this recessive, radiation-induced mutation, the hair shaft is hollow. Satin mice also have immune system changes. There are 2 other mutations on mouse Foxq1 that produce shiny fur. Blind-sterile (bs), Greasy (Gs), lustrous (lt), shiny-and-rough (Shar), and a couple other genotypes are known to make mouse coats shiny, too. There are many paths to Rome, and many reasons why a mouse or horse may be shiny.
At least the filly in question has not had the air in the hair shaft replaced with "fatty fluid" like in lt/lt mice...yum.