Qtr horses, built down hill a bit, question

[Horsecrazy27]

Hello,

I have seen thousands of Qtr horses that are built a bit down hill. Isn't this to help with speed on the track? To get down for cows? Quick turns, etc.? Would it be too general of a statement to say, that it is the "norm" for Qtr confo?

Just curious---the same lady that drives me crazy, was TRYING to get me to debate with her about this. So, knowing that a bunch of brains is better than one---just wanted to see what you all know/think.

[Donella]

I am guessing both. They come primarily from tb who are built very similiar for speed purposes and then its been heavily selected for with cow work. That is my guess.

[pintopiaffe]

well, any GOOD USING QH or APHA I've known has been even to uphill.

I believe it's a trait that has been bred in by not being carefully enough bred out. Sure a couple of individuals who are downhill maybe did well at things (HALTER?!?) But in general there isn't a single sport that downhill is a 'help' for.

A GOOD cutting/reining/using horse has a ton of 'sit and spin.' Can get those hocks underneath, lift the forehand and come up in front. I've been cantering downhill when I suddenly spotted a gopher hole, had to literally stop and roll-back to the side to keep the horse from going down in it. You can bet athletic conformation comes in 'handy' there. (pun acknowledged)

The good Wisecamp, King Ranch, working/using types are rarely downhill. I'll admit, many ranch horses aren't purebred either... but when you've got to move a couple hundred cows several miles to winter pasture, you sure don't want a downhill horse pounding your fillings out all day.

Just my opinion. I briefly bred APHA's, but my experience is a 4,250 acre working ranch.

[amdfarm]

I agree w/ Pinto. My OTQH gelding is very even, is bred for speed, but also very athletic. My APHA mare is also very even and athletic.

A friend of mine breeds AQHA's for ranch/working cow and trail and all of his are even to uphill built as well. He has a lot of Doc Bar in his mares.

Another friend breeds AQHA and APHA for reining/cutting and they are also even, but the bulldog type w/ short strong cannons and not a ton of height as is common for those types of horses. They have a lot of foundation bred horses, as well.

I have seen a few downhill built QH's and really don't know the ryhme or reason for it. They used to be known for their well built engines and being downhill would almost defeat that purpose. Thankfully some breeders still breed the true working QH.

[Altamont Sport Horses]

*I* believe that good using QH's, like cow horses, are bred for being even or uphill. Halter horses that are butt high have been selectively bred for because it makes their butts look BIGGER which they like. Thats my interpretation anyway.

[pintopiaffe]

I have to add that some QHs and haunch high QH-Xs manage to do really well despite their build, because of their mind and athleticism. Some will get even above 2nd level because they can do it *despite* the haunch high.

But it's hard enough for the average well built horse to do dressage beyond 2nd. Why would you breed something with a handicap to begin with?

Some too do have the "TB Dip" back, which can make them appear haunch high, especially if the haunch is well developed with the bump of muscle at the croup (a 'double croup' the way some Iberians etc. have a 'double back') --look to the structure more than the exterior there. Often these horses move uphill.

I just had to qualify what I said, because I am a HUGE fan of the QH/APHA for sport and for amateurs...

[Donella]

I dont see how being uphill or level would be advantageous for cutting or speedwork. I have never seen an uphill QH in my entire life and I live in Alberta.

[county]

Not at all unusual for cutting horses to be built downhill most of the ones that win big today are. We have sons of Peppy San Badger and High Brow Hickory and both are built a little down hill. I've bred Cutters since 65 and its very rare to see one built uphill and can't think of one that ever won anything to talk about.

[Horsecrazy27]

I have never seen an "up hill" qtr horse either??? I can't even remember one that is even----sorry. But, I can't. I live in AZ---ranch horse country. Cutting, reining, even the Qtr horse h/j ring. I showed on the Qtr horse circuit when I was a preteen and teen- grant it--they were the smaller rated ones, but still all qtr horse shows. Which was why I thought it was the "norm". Then this little lady was telling me how WRONG I was. She pulled her horses out (Leager horse) and another one--both down hill. But, she looks at them obviously on a slant! ha ha ha ha. They are each about 1-2 inches lower in front. They are both halter/wp horses. But, she looks at them--seriously-- as being uphill??? Kinda like my friend who insist her 14.2 hand arab is 15.2! :) ha ha ha. i tease her about it all the time! I told her what are mine then 19 hands? ha ha ha. Anyway...getting off topic.

[exvet]

They are each about 1-2 inches lower in front. They are both halter/wp horses. But, she looks at them--seriously-- as being uphill???

Doesn't it really matter on one's perspective? I mean if you look fore to aft aren't they really uphill. We sport horse types have always focused on back to front so we assume all do. :winkgrin:

As for whether or not there are any balanced or uphill QH's as a trend/norm as opposed to the extreme, I too competed QH back in the day and because of my PC and hunter interests had a couple of appendix too. My King Ranch bred appendix geldings where definitely level to uphill but one in particular looked more TB than anything else. My good ole Bar H Leo son was your typical bulldog build but could jump the moon. :yes:

I do find it difficult these days to find a foundation bred QH that isn't a tad downhill as per the sporthorse definition. Of course I live in the same area as you so perhaps that is why......but then again my FIL as close to 50 in his herd (NC farm) and I've yet to see a true uphill one with his breeding program either.

[whbar158]

I have a foundation QH and he is pretty even and if I had to choose I would say hes a tad uphill, his withers are higher than his rump, now he is 19 so maybe breeding trends have changed? I do know a lot of QH's that are downhill but most of them weren't well conformed otherwise either. Most I know are pretty even.

[Altamont Sport Horses]

[QUOTE=Horsecrazy27;3171628]I have never seen an "up hill" qtr horse either??? I can't even remember one that is even----sorry. But, I can't. [QUOTE]

Wow, really?!?! I've seen them and I have an appaloosa that has QH in her and she is definitely built uphill. I think most people would liken an appaloosa to a QH anyway. She's got some racing QH blood in her so maybe that that is where it came from.

[pintopiaffe]

I have bred to two very Spanish-looking, uphill moving APHAs in the last decade. I will try to find photos. NO, their necks don't come out the way a WB or Iberian do, but they come out nicely, and their movement is very naturally balanced on the haunch.

Withers at least even, if not *slightly* higher than haunch. Again--don't go by the croup muscling, go by stifle to elbow.

Perhaps not as many out there as there used to be, perhaps fewer now than 10 years ago--and maybe even fewer still than 20 years ago when I was riding working Ranch horses... I, for one, would be heartbroken if there weren't ANY left out there. I love the QH heart and work ethic, and they have a really natural inclination to 'sit' behind. The way a bird dog hunts, ya know? ;)

[Hocus Focus]

Just by physical construction this would be rare to find. Look at withers. Withers on Quarterhorses are generally low to non existent. Saddle fitting will tell you this. The muscular structure the breed offers in the hip is also more than average and mass not only adds length, depth but also height. Take these factors into consideration as well when you evaluate structure and uphillness.

Different breeds, different strengths and specialties. It is hard to compare apples to oranges.

[Horsecrazy27]

Just by physical construction this would be rare to find. Look at withers. Withers on Quarterhorses are generally low to non existent. Saddle fitting will tell you this. The muscular structure the breed offers in the hip is also more than average and mass not only adds length, depth but also height. Take these factors into consideration as well when you evaluate structure and uphillness.

Different breeds, different strengths and specialties. It is hard to compare apples to oranges.

Maybe she is looking at the bottom layer of the muscling behind? Then taking that and going to the wither and compare hieght?