View Full Version : The Derby
Drvmb1ggl3
Apr. 21, 2008, 11:51 PM
While Derby fever is heating up for the Kentucky Derby, and owners of horses on the bubble wait, biting nails, to see if they will be one of the chosen 20 horses that get to line up in the gate, the other Derby.. The Derby, seems to be losing some of it's luster.
Jim Bolger, trainer of the top ranked 2yo in Europe last year, and ante post Derby favourite, New Approach, has announced that his charge will not line up at Epsom this year, instead he has mapped a course that will see him target the season's first classic, the 2000 Guineas at Newmarket, then bypassing the Epsom Derby to take a jab at the Irish 2000 Guineas and then a break before tackling the Irish Derby in late June.
It seems the 218 year old history and $2.5m purse aren't worthy enough.
Bolger said: "I do not think the Epsom Derby does that much for a stallion career, and I never said he was going to Epsom.
"We're going to take it step by step but Sheikh Mohammed, Princess Haya and (bloodstock advisor) John Ferguson have left the horse's programme to me.
"After he runs at Newmarket, we'll see how that goes and make a decision from there.
"But I would be more keen to go to the Irish Guineas with him and then to the Irish Derby.
"It's not that I'm shying away from Epsom, but I've not won the Irish 2,000 Guineas before and I'd like to win it."
New Approach ruled over his peers last term winning all five of his starts, culminating in a half-length victory over Fast Company in the Dewhurst.
His former stablemate Teofilo won the same five races the previous year before being ruled out of the Guineas at the 11th hour with a career-ending injury.
"He has done well since Newmarket last year and I could not be happier with his progress," Bolger added.
"There have been no hiccups. It hasn't been the ideal weather and when we took him to the Curragh it was not the going we would have liked but we were able to get a blow into him.
"Everything about him suggests he is exceptional and he was the European champion two-year-old.
BansheeBreeze
Apr. 22, 2008, 03:22 AM
I don't know the circumstances but apparently he feels it's not in the best interest of his horse and I'll have to applaud him for putting that first(if that's the case).
vineyridge
Apr. 23, 2008, 11:59 AM
Wasn't you, Drvm, who pointed out that winning the Epson Derby was almost a sure ticket to becoming an NH stallion? With the difference in stud fees, it's not hard to see why a very special horse might miss it in favor of other races that would lead to very much higher stud fees.
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 3, 2008, 07:34 PM
So the 218th running of the big one is this Saturday and the big news is that New Approach will line up at Epsom afterall. Trainer Jim Bolger did an about turn this week and announced that his charge will run at Epsom, in a move that had Bookmakers more than a but ruffled. New Approach had been removed from Ante Post betting markets for the Derby a month ago by all the major Bookmakers when Bolger stated that NA was unlikely to target the Derby. Understandably the bookies, and many punters, are a tad upset that he's now running. Hopefully those that did back him antepost earlier on in the year didn't throw away their betting tickets!!!
Watch this thread for more news between now and the big race on Saturday.
Equilibrium
Jun. 4, 2008, 01:40 AM
Most Derby winners do end up NH horses, but that has changed in the past few years and you now see more "distance" horses actually making the grade as flat stallions.
The betting world is in a fury with Bolger at the moment for not playing "fair" in his decision to run this horse so late.
Should be a good race come Saturday. Quite a line up for us with the Derby and Blemont Stakes with a Bar B Que in the middle! Well if the weather holds up!
Terri
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 6, 2008, 12:23 AM
Having already ticked off the bookies and punters, Jim Bolger now has other trainers in a bit of a tizzy. He has requested permission from race officals at Epsom for New Approach to be ponied to the start for the Derby.
He was ponied to the start of the 2000 Guineas at Newmarket, which caused quite a delay.
From the Racing Post..
THE BHA will tell Jim Bolger in no uncertain terms that New Approach must not delay the start of the Derby on Saturday, after top trainers LucaCumani and Paul Cole on Wednesday said that the dual Guineas runner-up's “shenanigans” should not be allowed to affect his rivals.
Last year's champion juvenile, whose surprise re-emergence as a Derby candidate caused controversy, delayed the start ofthe 2,000 Guineas by six minutes after he was ‘ponied' down to the stalls by faithful companion and stablemate Metamorphosis.
However, Bolger, who on Wednesday sought permission for New Approach's equine comfort blanket to again accompany Princess Haya's colt through Saturday's preliminaries, is insistent that “nobody has anything to worry about”.
Speaking at Leopardstown on Wednesday night, Bolger implied no privilege would be needed.
He said: “We've been in contact with Epsom and we're hoping New Approach will be first to the start. Nobody has anything to worry about. We'll win the race to the start as well!”
Bolger confirmed Kevin Manning would “definitely retain the ride”, even if Frankie Dettori becomes available should Godolphin opt not to run Rio De La Plata because of ground concerns.
Were New Approach again to make the mile and a half journey to the start at pedestrian pace, he would inevitably delay proceedings and cause a headache for the other Vodafone Derby runners, Epsom and the BBC, which wants to cover trophy presentations before moving to Euro 2008 at 4.30pm – 30 minutes after the Classic's scheduled off-time.
Cole's River Proud could be affected if kept waiting on what is forecast to be a warm afternoon, having ruined his chance in the French 2,000 Guineas by becoming fractious in the stalls.
“It's got to be the same for all the horses,” said Cole. “You can't have the whole field upset for the sake of one horse. One horse cannot be allowed to escape all the aggro.
“I don't want my horse waiting for 20 minutes while New Approach walks down.
New Approach should have to fit in with the rest of the field.
“I would recommend the stewards get involved, and that New Approach's shenanigans aren't allowed to affect the other horses. There has to be a little give and take – but only a little.”
Cumani, whose Curtain Call is vying for second favouritism with New Approach behind Casual Conquest, added: “There had better not be a delay. It wouldn't be fair, and I won't be pleased if it happens. All the trainers would be unhappy.”
Bolger's request for New Approach to be ponied – which is allowed for any race – will be considered by the Epsom stewards, advised by BHA senior stipendiary steward William Nunneley, who on Wednesday made clear “no privilege” will be given to any runner.
He said: “I have asked Epsom's clerk of the course Andrew Cooper to state in his correspondence with Mr Bolger that New Approach will not be allowed to delay the Derby start in the way he did at Newmarket.
“What I can say is that there is no question of us agreeing to something that would compromise the chances of other horses.
“Two things are clear. First, New Approach will have to parade with the other horses, as that is part of the conditions of the race and, second, after parading, New Approach must not delay the start.
“There is no question of New Approach being allowed to trot all the way down behind the rest.
“Every horse in the Derby deserves to be given an equal opportunity, and the stewards will be adamant no privilege will be given to any one horse.”
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 6, 2008, 12:31 AM
There will be five Coolmore owned Aidan O'Brien trained horses in the 17 horse field, none of which is among the favourites. However there is an interesting development as stable jockey, Johnny Murtagh, has opted to ride King of Rome, over what was considered to be their top prospect, Allesandro Volta.
Obviously that must say something about how the Coolmore contingent has been training at Ballydoyle.
JOHNNY MURTAGH said on Wednesday that his decision to ride King Of Rome for Aidan O'Brien in the Vodafone Derby on Saturday was based on the colt's progress since he finished second to fellow Ballydoyle contender Alessandro Volta in the Lingfield Derby Trial last month.
Murtagh said: “It wasn't an easy decision for me. All our Derby horses have been working very well and they are in great shape.
“I came down in favour of King Of Rome, as I think he has possibly improved the most for his last run. But I could be wrong.”
He added: “The Irish horses for the Derby are very strong this year, with Casual Conquest and New Approach being the first two in the betting. You have to respect them, but I think our horses will have a big say in the race.”
Murtagh, who rode Alessandro Volta when that colt beat King Of Rome at Lingfield, will bid for his fourth victory in the Derby, having won the Classic on Sinndar (2000), High Chaparral (2002) and Motivator (2005).
miss_critic
Jun. 6, 2008, 06:16 AM
HRTV interviewed O'Brien yesterday and asked him about the race in general. One specific question was, are races on the card Saturday spaced out like they are on big race days in the States. Oddly enough, he wasn't sure!!
So who do you like?
Galileo1998
Jun. 6, 2008, 07:17 AM
I like Doctor Fremantle :)
Glimmerglass
Jun. 6, 2008, 09:40 AM
Worth saying is that HRTV has been showing all morning (Fri) racing from Epsom and it looks wonderful as always. Naysayers be damned. It is good to see racing on tv.
miss_critic
Jun. 6, 2008, 10:40 AM
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I am recording it!!!!!!!!! :)
Aren't ya glad you have hrtv now?
Equilibrium
Jun. 6, 2008, 01:07 PM
For the person who likes Dr. Freemantle, he was beaten in his maiden last year by a filly called Look Here.
She just won the oaks in her 3rd start ever. Quite impressively with a high class field behind her.
Congrats to Ralph Beckett and Seb Sanders!
Terri
JER
Jun. 6, 2008, 03:44 PM
Replay of the Oaks. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBhUHc2I438)
The winner was so unfancied, about half of the initial press reports got her name wrong.
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 6, 2008, 11:42 PM
The field for the Derby.
River Proud is an unlikely runner after coming up lame in his stall on Fri evening. He was not originally Derby nominated, so he had been supplemented into the race by connections earlier on this week, at a cost of £75,000 (around $150k), a fee they will now forfeit...... ouch!
DERBY (G1)
1m 4f +10yards
3yo ENTIRE COLTS & FILLIES
£1,250,000 (~$2.5m)No(Draw)-- Form -- Horse-----------Trainer --------- Jockey
1(12) 1223-4 Alan Devonshire --- M H Tompkins --- Paul Mulrennan
2(1) 831-41 Alessandro Volta --- A P O´Brien --- J A Heffernan
3(9) 34-53 Bashkirov --- A P O´Brien --- David McCabe
4(2) 43-127 Bouguereau --- P W Chapple-Hyam --- Alan Munro
5(10) 1-1 Casual Conquest --- D K Weld --- P J Smullen
6(6) 2215-1 Curtain Call --- L M Cumani --- Jamie Spencer
7(13) 221-21 Doctor Fremantle --- Sir Michael Stoute --- Kerrin McEvoy
8(15) 18-2 Frozen Fire --- A P O´Brien --- M J Kinane
9(8) 211-21 Kandahar Run --- H R A Cecil --- Ted Durcan
10(11) 710-52 King Of Rome --- A P O´Brien --- J Murtagh
11(7) 0-5303 Maidstone Mixture --- Paul Murphy —-- Michael O´Connell
12(3) 111-22 New Approach --- J S Bolger --- K J Manning
13(17) 1214-2 Rio De La Plata --- Saeed Bin Suroor --- L Dettori
14(4) 817-43 River Proud --- P F I Cole --- DOUBTFUL
15(5) 10-1 Tajaaweed --- Sir Michael Stoute --- R Hills
16(14) 2-11 Tartan Bearer --- Sir Michael Stoute --- Ryan Moore
17(16) 4-22 Washington Irving --- A P O´Brien --- C O´Donoghue
BETTING FORECAST: 4/1 Casual Conquest, 9/2 Curtain Call, 5/1 New Approach, 6/1 Tartan Bearer, 8/1 Doctor Fremantle, 10/1 Tajaaweed, 14/1 King Of Rome, 16/1 Frozen Fire, 20/1 Kandahar Run, Rio De La Plata, 40/1 Alessandro Volta, Washington Irving, 150/1 Bouguereau, 200/1 Alan Devonshire, 500/1 Bashkirov, Maidstone Mixture
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 6, 2008, 11:53 PM
Background piece in the Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/racing/article4056639.ece) on the likely favourite, Casual Conquest.
Were Winston Churchill alive today he would summon his depiction of Russia in respect of Casual Conquest. The favourite is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.
Only the brave or foolish would spend £75,000 on a late Derby entry, as connections of Casual Conquest did on Monday. They definitely inhabit the domain of the brave. Casual Conquest's owner, Walter Haefner, has seen plenty in his 97 years - but never before a homebred horse with as much raw talent as this son of Hernando.
His Irish trainer, Dermot Weld, needs little introduction. Suffice to say that he remains the only European trainer to have won the Melbourne Cup (Vintage Crop 1993, Media Puzzle 2002) and an American Classic (Go And Go, 1990 Belmont Stakes). It is encouraging that Casual Conquest's grandmother is Go And Go's sister.
But what about that raw talent? It was very much on show when Casual Conquest routed his opponents at Leopardstown last month. That victory marked him down as the standout Derby trial winner, yet the colt is plagued by inexperience - which has undermined so many contenders in the past.
In essence, a jockey has two options on Derby day. He either fights his corner from the start, chancing a clean passage in the frantic early scramble for a prime position, or he settles towards the rear and endeavours to pick off tiring horses at the finish.
Pat Smullen, who rides Casual Conquest, will almost certainly take the latter route aboard a horse with just two previous runs to his name. And with New Approach almost certain to force the issue up front, Casual Conquest cannot afford to give away too much early ground.
Smullen's dilemma is compounded by Casual Conquest's size - at half an inch short of 17 hands, he could stand toe to toe with Cheltenham Gold Cup winner Denman. That's not ideal for Epsom extreme cambers.
The worry is that the Derby will ask too much from Casual Conquest too soon in his embryonic career. Given his all-round profile, he makes little appeal at odds of around 4-1.
miss_critic
Jun. 7, 2008, 12:40 AM
I love watching them canter to the gate. It's so peaceful and elegant looking.
Frank B
Jun. 7, 2008, 07:53 AM
It's encouraging to note that FOX Business News (http://www.foxbusiness.com/) gave some play to The Derby during their Big Brown segment last night.
Linny
Jun. 7, 2008, 08:29 AM
What time is the race, here on the east coast?
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 7, 2008, 09:24 AM
The Derby goes off at 4:00pm, which translates as 11:am EST.
For those that don't have TV access, today's racing from Espom is being carried on www.youbet.net, which is free to access.
Check out the race before the Derby, the Heritage Handicap (3:15 local time). It's a 5f sprint, with 20 runners, the sprint course at Epsom is straight, and downhill for the first 3f, so they get up a pretty good head of steam. Should be quite the cavalry charge.
Larksmom
Jun. 7, 2008, 10:38 AM
ever give splits/or any sort of time for racing over there? Is time not important to Euros?
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 7, 2008, 10:41 AM
ever give splits/or any sort of time for racing over there? Is time not important to Euros?
No, they would be fairly meaningless, for a number of reasons. The finishing time is usually published though.
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 7, 2008, 10:42 AM
20 minutes to post in the Derby.
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 7, 2008, 11:13 AM
NEW APPROACH!!!!!!!!
What a ride from Kevin Manning, had him tucked away in the back (and he didn't like it, was fighting the whole trip) and then presented up the inside with 2f to go. Ballsy ride.
Bolger is vindicated in the end. The bookies must hate him.
Equibrit
Jun. 7, 2008, 12:18 PM
Epsom Derby
1. New Approach (K J Manning) 5-1
2. Tartan Bearer (R L Moore) 6-1
3. Casual Conquest (P J Smullen) 7-2 Fav
16 ran. Dist: ½, 4½
Also:
4. Doctor Fremantle 5. Washington Irving 6. Alessandro Volta
7. Rio de la Plata 8. Tajaaweed 9. Bouguereau 10. Curtain Call
11. Frozen Fire 12. King of Rome 13. Alan Devonshire
14. Kandahar Run 15. Bashkirov 16. Maidstone Mix
The Beeb have some nice pics; http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/horse_racing/7441729.stm
Equilibrium
Jun. 7, 2008, 01:30 PM
Would love to know who the person is who bet NA last weekend and got odds of 209-1! Well after all he wasn't supposed to run.
And how about NA's mom. She's blind. He had bells on in the paddock so mom would know where he was at all times. He was raised on his own with her in their own little paddock.
Also not too many trainers that breed with the same success they train.
Really great race and a very good horse won.
Terri
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 7, 2008, 02:20 PM
The French version of the replay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2BEUCWoTgg). Probably will be an English version up soon.
Agree with you Terri, Bolger is quite the all round horseman, just breeding some of the top class horses he has is an accomplishment in itself. It was fitting that Aidan O'Brien should be the first one to congratulate him after the race, have once been his understudy.
Would love to see a rematch being New Approach and Henrythenavigator over 10f this summer. That ought to be some race.
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 7, 2008, 02:49 PM
Btw, I hope NA wins some more big races this year, for no other reason than I want to see Princess Haya in the winner's circle.
That woman is GORGEOUS!!!!
dressagetraks
Jun. 7, 2008, 02:58 PM
Exciting race, and boy, they had some fantastic camera angles in there. Wish ABC/NBC and crew would take notes.
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 8, 2008, 03:46 AM
Replay in English, with post race stuff... part 1 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Xc4lRBHfZs), race and analysis and part 2 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BNkjJMyIdnY), post race with winner's circle stuff, including the beautiful Princess Haya resplendent in red, loving on her Derby winner, she seemed pretty chuffed.
Odd to see a horse ponied in Europe, but even odder to see him ponied into the winner's circle.
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 8, 2008, 01:12 PM
As expected, New Approach will now target the Irish Derby in three weeks time, where is likely to renew rivalries with close 2nd Tartan Bearer. French Derby close runner-up, Famous Name, is also a likely runner.
As you'll notice from the official name in the article, the Irish Derby is no longer sponsored by Budweiser.
From RTE...
Jim Bolger has confirmed that New Approach will bid to complete the English/Irish Derby double later this month.
Ground permitting, Saturday's brilliant Epsom winner will go for more Classic glory in the Dubai Duty Free Irish Derby at the Curragh on June 29.
'The immediate target is the Irish Derby and we'll sit down and talk about it after that,' said the trainer. 'He wouldn't run on firm ground.'
Bolger once again stressed how much credit jockey Kevin Manning deserved in the win.
He said: 'It's the best Derby-winning ride I've seen, it was brilliant. It was obvious from the Guineas at Newmarket that he would stay. I'm sure other jockeys would have won on him but I don't think anybody could have just stepped into the plate and won on him, he takes a bit of knowing.
New Approach is 4-6 favourite with Cashmans for the Irish Derby in which he could renew rivalry with Epsom second and third, Tartan Bearer and Casual Conquest.
Looking further ahead, he is 7-2 second-favourite with Coral for the King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes at Ascot in July.
Drvmb1ggl3
Jun. 12, 2008, 12:35 AM
And how about NA's mom. She's blind. He had bells on in the paddock so mom would know where he was at all times. He was raised on his own with her in their own little paddock.
Some background on New Approach's dam, Park Express, from an article in the Independent.
More remarkable than her age, however, is the fact that Park Express, a champion filly in Ireland (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Ireland) 19 years ago, was blind when she foaled New Approach.
"Park Express developed cataracts and that's something you can't treat in horses," Burns said. "She went blind gradually; in fact she became much calmer when she became totally blind. It didn't take her long to get used to the boundaries in her paddock, and she was fine."
For blind mares, maintaining contact with their foals is a huge problem. Burns overcame this by attaching a bell to New Approach's headcollar. "We got one out of a budgie's cage, so she always knew where the foal was."
For Park Express, contact with other horses was out of the question because of the inherent dangers. By contrast, cattle are more placid, and make suitable grazing companions. One day Park Express was turned out with 31 cattle; the one she befriended was a young bullock who would grow to a formidable size.
"The bullock was 26 hundredweight (1.3 tons), but Park Express came to love him," Burns said. "She would follow him everywhere. If he took a step forward, so would she. It's nature's wonderful way, and it was great to watch." The young New Approach, with no hint of fear, would lie down beside the bullock for a rest.
Park Express reared four foals after she went blind, with New Approach the last of them. When she was humanely put down, so too was the bullock, who was buried alongside her.
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