Stallion choices for amateur event horse

[ne900]

I am thinking of breeding my event mare. She has competed through training level, placing 1st or 2nd in nearly all of her events with my trainer (over the course of several years) and placed in the top 5 at the AEC. She also packed me around through training level and is a great confidence builder/schoolmaster. She has great jumping form and the scope to jump over 4 feet. However, she is too heavy to successfully compete at prelim, so we never moved her up (she would probably get around, but not make the time). The trainers who have worked with her feel that she is very much worth breeding.

I would be hoping to pass on her temperament, heart and scope in order to produce a training/prelim prospect for an amateur (myself!).

I am looking for suggestions for stallions. If I had to pick her apart, I would say she has a slightly longish back and a tendency to want to be on the forehand as well as having a heavier build (think Cleveland Bay). I'd be looking for a stallion that can improve on these characteristics but still produce an amateur suitable tempermant. She's plenty forward and actually very sensitive to the aids.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

[Fairview Horse Center]

Nevada would be an excellent choice to lighten, improve her back, and he is very up in front. He also has a wonderful disposition, and many of his youngsters are being broken and shown by their amateur owners.

These chestnuts are 2 Nevada 4 year olds shown by a Junior and Young Rider in Eventing and Dressage/Hunters. The 2nd/3rd is out of a very downhill QH mare. The gray is heavier, but out of a full percheron mare, so he did lighten her a lot.

Nevada can be handled and ridden by kids.

[foxhavenfarm]

Take a look at Artrageous. He has his first two foals on the ground this year and so far has definitely passed on his temperament, uphill build, athleticism and short back. :D

[tnscvaga]

What about this guy?
http://www.twistoffateeventing.com/index.html

[LAZ]

I have a couple of suggestions based on that you're breeding for you--breed to a stallion that has produced rideable, nice minded horses.

I'd say this includes A Fine Romance, Reputed Testamony, and the like.

I bred my hottish event mare to Texas Fuel and have a stellar minded yearling, but unfortunately Texas died shortly after my mare was confirmed in foal.

This year she will be bred to Jumbo (ISH) but it sounds like he's heavier than you'd like.

[not again]

We have had many happy and successful event riders from children of Adamant, Some have won at the big events and garnered year end awards. And some have less famous but equally important careers, including one owned by an event rider who suffers from seizures and is blind in one eye. Her Adamant daughter takes good care of her over the jumps, out hunting and has a "sixth sense" about her medical needs. http://www.watermark-farm.com/Adamant.htm
Check with Tasker about his frozen, and the frozen/fresh cooled options from his son Avebury WF as well. She is at www.watermark-farm.com.

[Cinnybren]

I have a two year old by A Fine Romance out of my Holsteiner mare that is wonderful. I would highly recommend him. "Fred" improved the hind end, added refinement, added length of leg and I got much nicer movement. All that plus a very ammy friendly temperment. :)

I would also recommend Sea Accounts. I've been around him numerous times, and he is a very well behaved boy and his offspring that I've met have been very nice minded as well.

[Platinum Equestrian]

I adore my mare by Brandenburg's Windstar. He has many successful offspring out there competing in the jumpers and eventing.

http://www.teamwindchase.com/ (http://www.teamwindchase.com/)

[GotSpots]

If you're breeding primarily for a training/prelim horse, there are many options out there - so I'd be looking primarily for a TB that throws temperament. I love the Windstar babies, but I have not seen many that were really truly amateur rides. There were a couple that fit that bill, but many of them have been pretty high octane. Amazing athletes, sweet as pie, but there's alot of horse there. Your mileage may vary - and I don't pretend to have seen more than about ten of them, so of course, do your own homework. We have three AFRs right now and I'd say they all have essentially amateur brains, coupled with pretty impressive athleticism. I also quite like the Reputed Testamony youngsters I've seen.

[nsm]

I would take serious look at Tiulus. He is from international event and jump lines. He is a lovely modern type with a shorter back and a wonderful disposition, very ami-friendly. here is a link to his web site:

http://www.malletbarsalou.com/enter_e.html

Nancy

[elizabeth Callahan]

Another vote for AFR. My yearling is out of a heavy WB cross mare ( think plow horse), and is very TB in looks but the best brain.

[showjumpers66]

Vallado may be option or maybe Coconut Grove.

[LockeMeadows]

Innkeeper would be at the top of my list to lighten a mare up, add movement, and shorten a back. His get have wonderful dispositions and are truly amateur friendly. For your mare, he would be my pick.

[HiJumpGrrl]

I second, third, whatever Reputed Testamony
Sea Accounts is another. I like him.
Salute the Truth would be another.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I know a few people who have Nevada offspring and say nothing but positive things.

I bred my mare to Royal Appearance http://www.equine.vt.edu/stallions/royalappearance.html

My mare is very light but a bit long in the back (all TB) and I'm not super concerned about any ammy ride...just want a nice athlete...and am hoping for something that will go Adv. I really liked his dam line.

If you stick with a warmblood, I also really like the looks of Cicera's Icewater http://www.westwiththewind.com/cicerasicewater.html
He has quite a bit of TB and is refined so it sort of depends on how heavy your mare is.

Several others have been mentioned here that I love. But given what you said was your mare's weakness...I would look at TB stallions....Inn Keeper (love his look http://www.enavantstud.com/stallions.html) , A Fine Romance http://www.afineromance.ca/ etc. (the ones already mentioned). I'm also curious as to what this boy produces....seen him in person and he looks like he has a wonderful disposition and ammy ride (http://teamwindchase.com/OrujoStallionPage.htm)


There are really a ton of very nice stallions to choose from. I've got my eyes set on a few French boys for when I breed my mare again but I want to see what she produces first.

[TrueColours]

You could also consider Guaranteed Gold a 16.1hh cremello TB stallion who will guarantee a dilute colour on your foal:

http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueColoursFarm/GG.html

His oldest offspring are 6 year olds this year and one 5 year old has done well at the Training Level eventing with his amateur rider. As more and more of his youngsters reach riding / showing age you should start to notice them in various disciplines throughout North America! They all have wonderful Amateur friendly temperaments and excellent conformation and movement as well ...

Have fun narrowing down your choice ... :)

[flypony74]

What about this guy?
http://www.twistoffateeventing.com/index.html

I second Triple Twist. I knew his sire, and he was the friendliest, most quiet stallion I've ever been around. And all of the babies from this line can JUMP. I have a mare booked to him.

[Edgar]

Landfriese II
www.landfriese.com
Talented proven producer of eventers (and jumpers and dressage at GP level) produces nice ridable offspring.

[junebug84]

I suggest A Fine Romance. He's got a fantastic mind and has the look to match. All of his foals are fantastic, and he's got babies successfully eventing.

[FMulder]

Jaguar Mail has been the choice of:

Headley's Brittania (winner of Burghley and Baminton and going to the Olympics)
The Wexford Lady (went to Athens)
Winsome Adante's mother (and his two sister)
Bruce Davidson's Jam (10th burghley last year)
Fachoudette (Europeans last year)

Three of those maree are in the top ten all time eventing mares. There has to be a reason why they're using him. He's by Hand in Glove xx (an American export) out of a Laudanum mare (US sire of the year two years in a row in the 90's) here's his link http://www.frenchstallions.org/french_stallion_detail.php?stallion=2007009

[Eileen]

You might want to check out Stiletto as well. He is Abdullah bloodlines for the jumping and Martini for the dressage. His babies are very, very athletic and ammit friendly.

Stiletto was very successfully shown to Prix St George, before Jean gave in to Stiletto's desire to jump and did a little jumping with him and now he is going in eventing and doing very well.

Although, I no longer event, we have a Stiletto son. He is built to jump and loves to jump -- has beautiful form. Mom, however, finds the ground to hard anymore, so it's dressage for him.

And my trainer -- who was definitely not a Trakhener fan when I started riding with her -- says he is the perfect amateur horse and wants a Trakehner of her own.

Windfall is another stallion you might want to check out. He does have lovely babies, although I have never owned one myself.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

You might want to check out Stiletto as well. He is Abdullah bloodlines for the jumping and Martini for the dressage. His babies are very, very athletic and ammit friendly.

Stiletto was very successfully shown to Prix St George, before Jean gave in to Stiletto's desire to jump and did a little jumping with him and now he is going in eventing and doing very well.



Interesting....because most Abdullah babies were not considered very ammy friendly. Athletic as all get out...but bit tougher, less forgiving rides. Obviously they are good rides for some people.

I do think alot depends on what someone means as ammy friendly. I would personally breed for the best athlete with a brain (i.e. not crazy or mean) but that may not be an ammy friendly ride (depending on how you define ammy). I like them smart, sensitive and forward thinking...that is my sort of ride (and I am an ammy) but that may not be a perferred ride of someone else.

[sspry]

As an ammy rider myself, I would breed to Noble Houston. www.noblehouston.com
I have been around him as well as his babies and I am always impressed. Such a beautiful, level headed, athletic horse. His babies seem to be as well.

[EventingChase]

I second Stiletto! Beautiful conformation, great movement and jump, and a nice temperament. I am expecting a Stiletto foal next year :) He is very modern. As an added bonus Jean is great to work with and nothing makes the breeding process easier then a great stallion owner and a good repo vet!

[Eileen]

EC -- I hope you enjoy your Stiletto foal as much as we enjoy our boy. Talk about amateur friendly, our boy was started by a not so young man (my husband) without much riding experience -- no bucking, then sent to a trainer for 90 days. Came back and hubby is again riding and has been taking dressage lessons for about 9-12 months. Husband is absolutely in love with this horse. and has been working very hard. He is taking our boy to his (hubby's) first rated dressage show.

We took our boy to a couple of hunter/jumper people to check out his jump. He loves it and has wonderful form. He tries so hard to please. I think he is like Stiletto, he will perform in dressage to please us, but given the choice, I think he would rather jump.

Our trainer, a former jumper rider turned dressage rider, tells us time and time again, this is the perfect horse for amateurs. He is very athletic, very brave, he tries so very hard to understand what you want and he doesn't get upset when you mess up -- not bad for a young horse.

[STF]

Puerto D'Azur has several babies on the rated eventing curcuit. One now going Interm towards Advanced with very good results. All are ridden and by AA or JRs. You can look his offspring up on the USEA website.

[mbj]

Another vote for A Fine Romance.
We have a rising 3 year old by him who is 1/8 Irish Draft, and while a big boy he is leggy, quick on his feet,super temperament,very nice topline,3 very nice gaits, and just the right amount of bone. I don't know that Fine Romance will shorten a back, but he consistently puts on a great hip/big butt and long elegant necks. I personally find slightly long-backed horses easier to fit a saddle to,scopier in jumping, and easier to do lateral movements with, assuming they do not have a weak loin.
I suspect that because they are so amateur friendly there are quite a few Fine Romance babies packing their happy ammie owners about at the lower levels of hunter shows and events rather than performing up to their athletic potential. I think it is harder to find a good mind than to find athletic ability so I am a fan of ammie friendly stallions.

[ne900]

Interesting....because most Abdullah babies were not considered very ammy friendly. Athletic as all get out...but bit tougher, less forgiving rides. Obviously they are good rides for some people.

I do think alot depends on what someone means as ammy friendly. I would personally breed for the best athlete with a brain (i.e. not crazy or mean) but that may not be an ammy friendly ride (depending on how you define ammy). I like them smart, sensitive and forward thinking...that is my sort of ride (and I am an ammy) but that may not be a perferred ride of someone else.

Thanks for the great input! I agree that there may be differences in what different people mean by ammy friendly. I also like a smart, forward and somewhat sensitive ride, as well as a horse scopy enough to handle more than what I plan to do (a little extra helps one get out of trouble one doesn't judge a fence quite right). But, I'd like a horse that is sensible rather than a hot attack machine. Also, while smart is important, I don't want one so smart that it is testing me at every turn. My trainer has a youngster that is going to be an awesome athlete with 3* potential but she is also willful and would have my number immediately were I to be the one riding her. However, for my trainer she is not a problem at all. I wouldn't breed to her sire for a horse for me, but if I was breeding for my trainer, I'd pick her sire in a heartbeat.

[Charmb]

What about Parabol?
Also...in Canada...consider Kingston at Mirrabook Farms. He has evented and produced eventers, and would be a refiner stallion as well for your mare with his pedigree.
Armstrong Farms in Ontario. Ruth Armstrong is an eventer and certainly has some great stallion power that events and she stands, Ilian de Taute, Frenchman,Holberg and newly approved, PS I Love You.
We stand Oberon ...an Idocus son out of Kristal mare, who has been a successful eventer, and with the Kristal should offer refinement as well. He's a doll, and his kids are apparently showing great work ethic and rideability (we just received him late last year..so our first offspring arrive this year). I am not sure...but our Trakehner stallion although a dressage specialist, has great jump in him, and scored very well in free jumping competitions, and shown his talent under saddle as well. Plus...he is producing great minded offspring that are pretty uncomplicated...even with the swing and suspension they show. Check our website for Apex Farms.
I also concur that A Fine Romance has produced some great amateur horses!! Titilus is another with great jump and super mind.
And the list just keeps getting longer...aren't you glad you posted the question? I am sure we are all enjoying the input to our in head computers!! Chuckle
Char

[aspenlucas]

If I had to pick her apart, I would say she has a slightly longish back and a tendency to want to be on the forehand as well as having a heavier build (think Cleveland Bay).

I've yet to see a CB with a long back, especially pure, and most I've seen are VERY uphill built!

[cheekyhorse]

My stallion Pacific has a SUPER jump in him and will be competing in jumpers as well as dressage. (he is my FEI dressage prospect, but is showing so much talent in jumping, he might as well do both;)) I have lots and lots of pics up on my website of him with more info. He will be presented for approvals in the fall and the performance test as well.
He is short coupled and very athletic, a good stallion for refining and shortening the back. He is also nicely uphill.

[faluut42]

Landfriese II
www.landfriese.com
Talented proven producer of eventers (and jumpers and dressage at GP level) produces nice ridable offspring.

I second the Landfriese II. I saw him about 10 days after he arrived at Edgars, he was defiantly one of my favorites (I event and am a TB lover). You could really see the TB influence in him ,he was very light, but had a very strong frame.

I have liked every single one of his offspring. They are all very nice movers and jumpers and none of them are heavy. I think he even has a few eventers, one at intermediate.

Do you have pictures of your mare?

[98neigh]

the Hanoverian Graf Top II

[Erin Pittman]

All the Salute The Truth offspring we have here at Dodon have been very easy - they get turned out until they're about 3 with minimal handling (trimming feet, vaccinating, deworming, etc.). They are very level-headed and pretty easy to start once they do come down for breaking. One thing that amazes me about them is that they all walk onto a trailer the first time with NO fuss and no balking. Very nice temperaments and most are purchased by amateurs for eventing :yes:. Good luck in your search. http://www.dodonfarm.com/willy-offspring.html

[JER]

Interesting....because most Abdullah babies were not considered very ammy friendly. Athletic as all get out...but bit tougher, less forgiving rides. Obviously they are good rides for some people.


But Stiletto's other side is Martini and Martini's offspring are very amateur-friendly. They're real characters too -- intelligent and full of good humor.

[clint]

I was browsing through the pedigrees given for the competitors at Rolex, and noticed that one of the starters is by Pointmaker. Although not known for jumping himself, clearly he has the ability to throw that ability, and along with it, a stellar temperament. I have a lovely Pointmaker mare who has a 10 canter, and a 10 temperament.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

But Stiletto's other side is Martini and Martini's offspring are very amateur-friendly. They're real characters too -- intelligent and full of good humor.


That's good to know...wasn't questioning it much...just remember having to break a few Abdullah babies...and while I apprecieated their athletic ability...would not have called them ammy horses;) But often just a generation or two later (with good mares' influences) that can change! If you can get that jump and movement with an easy forgiving mind....that would be a very nice horse indeed.

[TKR]

I've heard that about Abdullah babies also. However, he was probably bred to ALOT of mares, wide variety of temperments there, too. So, his toughness might have been enhanced at times by the dam's side.

My Thoroughbred stallion, Master Huntsman, is a wonderful ammy friendly guy. His babies have done well in all the disciplines, excellent movers, very brave, good jumpers and intelligent with super temperments and personalities. He's now 28 and I'm not really standing him anymore, but I have some frozen if the mare is special enough. I also have his son' Murray's Law who is lovely and produces true to form. Not really standing him either, but have some frozen. www.krugerrandrunfarm.com. Their babies usually wind up as "keepers" for whoever buys them, but a few youngsters are still here.
PennyG

[silver2]

If your goal is to get to Prelim in a reasonable amount of time I would suggest selling the mare as a jumper and buy a new event horse. A horse who will pack an ammie around over 4' will certainly sell for enough to do so. Life is short and waiting for a baby who may or may not be born in a timely fashion, live to competition age, be capable of prelim and be capable of being ridden by you at Prelim is a huge gamble.

If you love the mare and are not tied to the idea of getting to Prelim in your eventing career then by all means feel free to ignore my advice.

[faluut42]

I have ridden Pointmaker himself, he himself has a good temperament. But after having dealt with mutlple PM offspring, they tend to be hot. I am not trying to bash his reputation, but from personal experience, he is not my choice for a amatuer at all. Ones I have dealt with and after talking to owners they are a on the more reactive side.

[FMulder]

Grafenstolz is a superb stallion that is actually doing it in the sport, here's his link http://www.frenchstallions.org/french_stallion_detail.php?stallion=2007025

He's beautifully bred and has been succesful throughout his career, the youngstock are looking great.

[Dressage_Diva333]

I agree with the suggestion of Landfriese II. I also saw him about 10 days after he arrived, and I very much liked him.

I ended up choosing Escudo II because I am breeding TB mare (and he has more bone, which I feel is neccessary for my mare), but Landfriese II was gorgeous :) And very sweet. I am considering Landfriese II for one of my other mares for next year.

I know three Pointmaker offspring, and have seen many others, none of which I have been impressed with. Neither their temperments or their conformation. Their temperments seem to be a bit overreactive, and explosive. I wouldnt choose him for an amateur sire. This is just my personal experiance with his offspring though.

[luvmyguinnypiggy]

I am new to breeding but I have a mare similar to yours, longer in the back, a bit to heavy to gallop really well, but more trustworthy than anything to jump the fences.

For my first baby, I went with A Fine Romance- my filly is very friendly, easy to handle, and a lighter version of my mare. I am just crazy about her.

This year I am trying for a Special Memories foal. I keep hearing lost of good things about him- by abdulla + half tb- so it will jump and gallop- and ammy friendly as well. Here is a link to what he has produced. http://trakehner-sires-international.com/stallions/spec_offspring_eur.html

[goodmorning]

Dressage Diva, I sent you a PM ;)

[scubed]

I'm also curious as to what this boy produces....seen him in person and he looks like he has a wonderful disposition and ammy ride (http://teamwindchase.com/OrujoStallionPage.htm)


He's pretty young at 8, so guessing don't have many of his get beyond the lower levels yet, depending when they started breeding him. He is one of the sweetest stallions I have ever met and I like the smaller size, so he'd be high on my list.

[Perfect Pony]

the Hanoverian Graf Top II

While I LOVE my mare by Graf Top II more than anything on this planet, and she has wonderful movement and a temperment to die for, I would not call him a refining stallion. My mare, although only 15.2 and modern "looking" is still not mature at 6 years old and has all the negative traits to OP is trying to improve.

[Oakmont Sporthorses]

There are a few at EMCO Stallion Services that are very amateur friendly that you should look at:

1. McGuigan - 3* eventer for years, but is quiet enough for his amateur owner to ride, including dropping him from Advanced to Novice (our Prelim) with the owner while Jeanette Brakewell prepared for Athens.

2. Catherston Liberator - Advanced eventer and dressage horse

3. N-Aldato - KWPN, GP Showjumper, sire of numerous GP showjumpers and dressage horses, several Intermediate eventers, and top international combined driving horses; stamps his offspring with a marvellous, laid-back temperament

www.emcostallionservices.com

[holsteinersrock]

Our boy, Cicera's Icewater.

His uncle, Cavalier Royale (full brother to Icewater's dam Cicera) was world leading eventing sire in 2006, and had three entries including the winner is the last Rolex, one entry this year.

Icewater himself has successfully evented to one star with Team O'Connor, and recently won 3rd level dressage. He's taking a few months off the show circuit, at stud.

His sire Corofino is known for siring fantastic rideability.

Or you could go with any Holsteiner that has enough "blood" in the pedigree, the roster is at www.holsteiner.com, there are lots of superb stallions there that can MOVE and JUMP, and the economy being so bad, gas prices high, and last years draught on the East Coast owners are willing to lower the stud fees.

Anna

[talloaks]

I suggest A Fine Romance. He's got a fantastic mind and has the look to match. All of his foals are fantastic, and he's got babies successfully eventing.


I agree whole heartedly about A Fine Romance!! He is one fabulous sire and we are thrilled with the filly we had last year, she was/is really top notch!! We don't own her now, but her owner is DELIGHTED!!:cool:

[Fred]

I just wanted to thank everyone who has recommended A Fine Romance.

He started his performance career in eventing, and his rider, Peter Gray, who was then coach of the Canadian Olympic team, felt that he was an international level prospect - in his words: "one of the best".
I chickened out, and rerouted his performance career to the Hunter Ring where he showed successfully in the Working Hunters (combining this with busy breeding seasons - which I think says a great deal about his temperament and character.)

He has a number of offspring eventing successfully (two from his first two small crops have gone Advanced), one is a winning Grand Prix Jumper, and three babies were in the top 5 in the 2007 YEH Championships in Canada and the US.

Allison Springer has three youngsters in her barn right now, all of whom have just started to go Prelim, and she has high hopes for all of them.

A couple of years ago,a 4 yr old out of a full Clyde mare was PT (novice) HOTY up here in Ontario, scoring many 9's in his dressage. I am using him as an example of an offspring out of very heavy mare (much heavier than your mare!)

As mbj said, many of his offspring are ridden and competed by their child and amateur owners.
He adds refinement, and reliably passes on his very strong topline and deep hip, superb balanced canter, calm attitude, courage and willing temperament as well as athleticism and jumping ability.

I am an admirer of many of the stallions already mentioned, and wish you all the best in your breeding plans.
Good luck!