Newbie on Forum - advice needed on Clintissimo Z

[Cornetto]

Hi all,

As you can guess I am a newcomer to the forum and have seen a lovely young Clinton stallion standing at Zangersheide called Clintissimo Z and was wondering if anyone on here had seen him and had any thoughts on the subject. He is also only a 3 yr old I believe and so it would be great to know of anyone has heard anything about what his fertility levels are like.

Thanks for all your help! :D

[FMulder]

Clintissimo Z is the most beautiful stallion I have ever met, and I see over 600horses per week. He did well at the Keuring in Holstein, and is truly the example of the modern sport horse coming out of that region now.

I'm in discussion with Steven about the quality of the semen, and we're testing again this week. I'll report back accordingly.

[Cornetto]

Thank you Zangersheide. I take it you are their agent then?? You say his semen is being tested this week...is this the first time or has there been an issue with it an it's being re-tested? I know this would only be his first season but I would have imagined at this time of year he would have started covering a few mare's already as I imagine him to be in quite high demand....

[tom]

Quotes from a telephone call last week:

Question to Zangersheide vet: "I notice that Clintissimo Z is not listed o the Zangersheide hompage as being available this year. Is there a problem with his semen or can it be shipped?"

Answer by Zangersheide vet: "The mares have to come to Zangersheide because he is not producing enough sperm to be able to ship the semen."

[Cornetto]

Thanks for that...
Zangersheide - do the guys at the stud know why this is or could it just be due to the fact that he is still very young and so not very mature/freezable? I had heard that there was historically a problem with Clinton semen being quite poor but on speaking to the guys at Boeckmann about Cinton, his is now excellent quality....

[FMulder]

That's what we're trying to find out. He's already got pregnancies in the UK this year and France, but before any more gets shipped to my clients I need to make sure it's OK.

It's good to see that you're looking to use the Z stallions Tom, and I see you registered a filly with us. Hugo told me about your conversation with him. Welcome aboard.

The Clinton you are thinking of is not the sire of Clintissimo Z.

[Cornetto]

His sire is the Boeckmann's Clinton I isn't he???

[Cornetto]

I would be very interested to know what he test results show - could you PM me when you know how things are looking please??

[tom]

Although I have been a member of Zangersheide since 2000 I have never used one of their stallions nor do I plan to use one of their stallions this year.

[ShowjumpersUSA]

The frozen semen of Clinton by Carolus, the sire of Clintissimo, is available here in the states. He produces lovely, rideable, offspring.

What an interesting pedigree Clintissimo has. He is by a son of Capitol I bred to a granddaughter of Capitol I. He's double Calypso (I and II), which I would never do because of possible conformation issues, but look how nice it turned out!!! The breeders in Holstien are line breeding to Capitol I with great success. This has not been done before, to my knowledge. I am going to follow their lead and breed my Carolus, Caletto II mare to Campesino this year. The type is right and the pedigree just might produce a powerhouse! It would be Campesino (Capitol I) x Carolus (Capitol I) x Caletto II x Landgraf. This foal would be linebred to Cottage Son and Ladykiller.

[FMulder]

I've had the conversation this morning and his semen is standing at around 25% PTM, not the greatest in the world but worse semen than that regularly gets mares pregnant.

Tom's statement/quote above is not totally correct, the fresh semen is not being sent to other countries, but the frozen is. The first shipments of Z semen will be at ERC in Virginia at the beginning of next week, including Clintissimo Z. Another shipment to the UK goes out this week.

[Cornetto]

Out of interest – how is his PTM in relation to that of other Zangersheide stallions such as say Balougran Z or Level Z??

[tom]

My quote is not incorrect. The vet's quote is not incorrect. Both quotes refer, of course, to chilled semen and this is implied in the question.

Why is this implied? If semen is frozen it can always be shipped as long as it has EU health papers.

[Cornetto]

I'm a bit confused Zangersheide - if his semen isn't good enough to ship out chilled, how is it then good enough for freezing?? Surely it would be the other way around..... Excuse me if I'm being a bit thick but I would have thought the fresher it was then the better it would be motility wise...

[Rocky XVI]

The breeders in Holstien are line breeding to Capitol I with great success. This has not been done before, to my knowledge. I am going to follow their lead and breed my Carolus, Caletto II mare to Campesino this year. The type is right and the pedigree just might produce a powerhouse! It would be Campesino (Capitol I) x Carolus (Capitol I) x Caletto II x Landgraf. This foal would be linebred to Cottage Son and Ladykiller.

How interesting - you may have just changed my breeding plans! I have two mares with Capitol in the damline, and while the one is active in sport, I had thought of breeding her 3-year-old daughter this year to our stallion who is by Corland (Cor de la Bryere). Instead, I may follow your lead and breed her instead to our Indoctro (Capitol) stallion. The resultant foal's pedigree will be linebred to Capitol (16%) and will also have Ahorn, Heartbreaker and Concorde in the first three generations. Hopefully the augmentation of Capitol in the pedigree will serve to cool some of the "heat" in her pedigree! ;)

[FMulder]

I'm a bit confused Zangersheide - if his semen isn't good enough to ship out chilled, how is it then good enough for freezing??

It's not that the semen isn't good enough, it's just that there's not much of it, thus when he's collected it's all gone within an hour to mares that are waiting at Zangersheide. I've never seen a young stallion so in demand, but when you look at him, the reasons are obvious.

the good news is, that there will be some on the US next week.

[Cornetto]

That's good to know Zangersheide - one other query tho about the PTM - isn't the standard minimum supposed to be 30%? I was speaking to my repro vet the other day and thy said that that is the recommended rate...
I can fully see why he is in such demand, he is also possibly one of the most beautiful horses I have ever seen and his jump is just awesome! Couldyou tell me what his coverings/conception % for the year is so far at all? Would be keen to know how many have taken first time as my mare is due to foal in mid June and so would be quite a late covering and so would obviously want her chances of taking first time to be as favourable as poss.

[FMulder]

These numbers take a little time to collate and it is early days, so email on info@zangersheide.co.uk and I'll keep you updated whenever I get anything.

[Cornetto]

That’s cool Zangersheide…will email you soon. Do you have any of the PTM rates for a couple of the other Z stallions at all as well? Such as: Balougran Z and Level Z at all?

[FMulder]

I've asked for them at the same time, I'll email them to you.

[Cornetto]

thank you Zangersheide - will email you lateron today when I get a chance