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View Full Version : endurance riders - what kind of horseshoes for rides?



marta
Apr. 9, 2008, 12:13 PM
what kind of shoes do you use during competition season?

Auventera Two
Apr. 9, 2008, 01:54 PM
I don't shoe, but if I did, it would probably be in Eventers. My horses used to be in Eventers. The LD rider I rode with last weekend shoes in Eventers, and is thinking of switching to the aluminum ones.

I'm interested in trying Eponas if I can't keep boots on my horse.

marta
Apr. 9, 2008, 03:03 PM
any particular reason you choose those?

marta
Apr. 9, 2008, 05:52 PM
that's a good reason in itself. i just looked at their website.
thanks for the suggestion!

Shadow14
Apr. 9, 2008, 06:30 PM
I run cheap St Croix or Diamond #1 with rolled toes. I found aluminum after one week looked beat on the gravel and at 6 weeks fell off, nothing left.
If you run gravel or rock aluminum wears too quickly.

marta
Apr. 9, 2008, 08:41 PM
i guess we'd do some gravel and rock but not all the time. do you think they'd last 4 weeks? i would like to go w/ the lightest shoe possible.
gtd, you're in rocky VA, do you have issues with the aluminum St. Croix wearing too fast?

Shadow14
Apr. 9, 2008, 09:07 PM
You can easily get 4 weeks out of a pair.

I can get 75 to 100 miles out of a pair, depending upon the surface abrasions. .

That would mean shoing every 2 weeks?? Is it worth it? I would worry about all the nail holes in the hoof wall.
Do you really think the difference between a lite steel shoe with increased wear and an aluminum shoe that wears out every 2 weeks is worth the trouble???
My old guy has 30,000 plus miles and 18 years of wear on him and never took a lame step and has worn steel all his life. I tried aluminum on my young horse and found a week before wear becomes too excessive not worth the trouble and yes I also do my own horses.

Shadow14
Apr. 9, 2008, 10:11 PM
No my old guy is not 18 he has 18 years of running and is 24 this month. He was averageing 50 and more miles a week and often run 70 miles a week.
My new young guy often covers 40-45 miles in a weekend alone.
Today is the 9th I believe and he has run 7 times this month for about 70 miles in those 9 days.
I will have to weigh an aluminum shoe VS a steel saddle lite.

I am not a fan of NB shoes but sure like their protocall ,their way of trimming and moving the breakover back. I just don't like the dubbed look of the foot so I rocker all my front shoes. I tried an experiment with aluminum shoes. I heated a shoe to 200 and tried working it, 300, 400, 500, 600 , 700 and finally at 800 it was easy to shape BUT it takes the temper out of the shoe and to age harden it is too time consuming. So if I wanted to rocker the toe I would have to heat it thus removeing what little hardness there is. I do believe in cutting the heels down, engaging the frog and moving the breakover back.

Romantic Rider
Apr. 9, 2008, 10:21 PM
Steel rim shoes all around. Steel just holds up best, and the rim shoe gives grip. We've never had any problem with them. I know an endurance rider who says rim shoes contribute to lameness, but her horses slip on dry grass, ours don't slip on wet grass. The guy who owned my big Anglo mare before ran her in these wierd, flimsy plastic shoes. But I know she had trouble with pulling them off, and had had some lameness issues. I ran her all last season in rim shoes and never pulled one and was never lame. That's good enough for me. Her feet aren't solid enough for plastic shoes, and I can't afford them, or I would run her in Easy Walkers.

chicamuxen1
Apr. 10, 2008, 07:18 AM
I use steel St. Croix eventers, because the aluminum won't last 5-6 weeks for my horse, most shoeings. I like the eventers for the same reasons as GTD. I've been using them for years and years. But my current horses hav NB steel on their front feet. The youngster is so shortbacked/long legged that forging is an issue for him (as for many Arabs) and the NB helps a lot. My competitive horse just moves better and has a better alignment of his lower structures with the breakover point moved further back. Plus the extra nail holes allows more flexability for nail placement.

By the way, for those folks who use farriers that leave too much toe, a switch to NB shoes on the fronts will change that situation. The shoe will just force a removal of the excess toe, then your enthusiasm about your horse's improve movement will very like open up your farrier's mind to shoeing differently! I've used this ploy on two different farriers. I would insist on the shoes, even went so far as to buy them myself once, farrier grudgingly put them on and within a few months he's using them on more and more horses. Same with the eventers. The young farrier that I used until he moved out of state was a roper and his wife rode barrel horses. He'd never used eventers or NB shoes. In no time at all he had eventers on their competition horses and he was using NB shoes on their old navicular horse.

Bonnie

marta
Apr. 10, 2008, 08:12 AM
i'm still waiting for the farrier to call me back to schedule an appointment. when he does i'll ask him what he suggests and discuss the St. Croix w/ him.
We don't as many miles as shadow14 so i don' think we'll have to worry about premature wear. weight on the other hand is a consideration. my mare was in NB shoes for about 3 months before we went barefoot. she had some lameness issues back then (i believe due to extremely contracted feet) and the new farrier we used was trying to make her feel better. i have to admit that they worked well for us back then although we didn't do any serious riding outside of an arena.

chicamuxen1
Apr. 10, 2008, 08:37 AM
another nice thing about the NB shoes is that they are wide shoes and extra wide at the toe. They offer more sole protection than the average shoe.

Bonnie

Auventera Two
Apr. 10, 2008, 08:45 AM
or I would run her in Easy Walkers.

I've read in a few places that people like the Eponas much better than Easy Walkers. The farrier I work with said the crappiest, cheapest, and flimsiest shoes he's ever nailed on a foot was Easy Walkers, but he does love the Eponas. He has had good luck with Eponas. They're plastic but a harder shoe with more stability.

So anyway, that's just his take on it. I have no experience with either, as my horses were always in NBs, or Eventers.

marta
Apr. 10, 2008, 09:59 AM
also looked at slypner shoes.
i'm not sure if this farrier works w/ either product. if he does, i would have no objection at trying them, so long as they are not much heavier than aluminum shoes and so long as they don't stick out around the hoof.
the main reason why we are trying the shoes for a ride is b/c she repeatedly tears off the right front hoof boot when she goes into her favorite extended trot (it's almost like a trotter's trot). she never had a problem keeping shoes on, so i'm thinking that it's either the weight of the boots or the way they move her breakover (we're trying to address that) that's causing this problem. i've been fighting w/ this for a couple of years now and i'm really sick of entering rides only to have her rip the boot loose during the first loop. last weekend they were foamed on and she tore it off twice (once day before the ride during a hack and then during the first loop). if the boots have gaiters she ends up tearing the gaiter off from the boot (where the stitching is). i do the rides for fun and it's just not fun if you're constantly worried about her footwear;)
so we're going to try the shoes but again, i think they need to be light and allow for a breakover all around b/c her right front grows out slightly crooked and she breaks over slightly to the outside.

chicamuxen1
Apr. 10, 2008, 10:07 AM
Something no one has mentioned is traction! St. Croix eventers have the best traction, hands down, when it comes to shoes. They will get ahold of the ground and really minimize the sliding that happens with a standard flat bottomed steel shoe. I've ridden horses in plain shoes then in eventers on muddy slick ground and really felt the difference. You don't realize how much your horse is slipping until you switch to eventers. Plus the improved break over all around the perimeter of the shoe allows the horse to move with more comfort.

Bonnie

marta
Apr. 10, 2008, 11:01 AM
thanks for the suggestion re bell boots.
she never needed them when she was shod, but i think i'd want to use them just as a precaution. as i mentioned we never had issues w/ forging until we put the boots on:(

Shadow14
Apr. 10, 2008, 11:08 AM
You might also tell the farrier not to have the heel of the shoe sticking out past the foot -- I would probably even set it in just a fraction. It won't hurt her hoof to have a tiny bit of overhanging the back of the shoe if it prevents her from catching the end of the shoe and ripping it.

You can also ask your farrier to snub the back toe, or put NB shoes on the back.


I wouldn't attempt to tell a farrier to short shoe the horse. That is a no no.
The toe can be snubbed back or dubbed but a rocker or roller shoe would be better. It is easy for him to rocker the toe.
Again don't short shoe the horse.The base of support needs the longer shoe.

Actually if the horse is stepping off the shoe lowering the heals gets the foot off the ground quicker. If you have an arab with good long heals cutting them down speeds up the foot, leaving them long slows the foot down.

Auventera Two
Apr. 10, 2008, 11:48 AM
I wouldn't attempt to tell a farrier to short shoe the horse. That is a no no.
The toe can be snubbed back or dubbed but a rocker or roller shoe would be better. It is easy for him to rocker the toe.
Again don't short shoe the horse.The base of support needs the longer shoe.

Actually if the horse is stepping off the shoe lowering the heals gets the foot off the ground quicker. If you have an arab with good long heals cutting them down speeds up the foot, leaving them long slows the foot down.

I agree. I cringed just reading the suggestion to short shoe the horse. I would go with bells first if the horse was stepping them off. Or I'd bring the toes back more to speed up the fronts. But I would definitely not want the horse short shod. Of course that's from my own experiences. Everyone's is different.

I would do everything you can to increase biomechanical efficiency before resorting to short shod. This is one of the major causes of heel pain and eventual lameness.

Also I don't like the suggestion to put NBs on the hinds. Again - only personal opinion. The hind pedal bones are spade shaped. They are not round and flatter across the front like the front pedal bones are. The hoof capsule is intended to be spade shaped to dig into the ground and propel the horse forward. Lopping off the hind toes increase pressure at the dorsal tip of the pedal bone. You can shorten the entire toe, respecting the shape of the bone, certainly, but I would not want squared toes on the hinds.

Shadow14
Apr. 10, 2008, 12:08 PM
This is short shoeing with long heals.
YOU DO NOT WANT THIS
http://i28.tinypic.com/347e0zb.jpg

This was marked for me by a very knowledgable lady NB farrier. She changed the way I think and shoe
http://i26.tinypic.com/2lt6f05.jpg

chicamuxen1
Apr. 10, 2008, 12:10 PM
Shadow14 is very right about how to speed up the front feet! With a forging horse the goal is to get the front feet off the ground quicker and slow the hind feet down in a way that doesn't harm the horse.

I had a super nice Arabian mare that was long legged. She forged terribly at a medium trot. At her big extended trot she would spread her hind legs and her hind feet landed to the outside of her front feet. But at a medium trot she would loose shoes. I really understand Marta's frustration!

I finally made an appt with Dr. Stephen Bradey in VA to shoe her. He analyzed her movement first then we went into his shop with the mare. He explained that her front feet were shod right, she had NB shoes on her fronts, her heels were trimmed right for good frog contact and she had an apprpriate angle for her pasterns. She had nicely sloped pasterns and shoulders so the matching foot angle had her heels trimmed down.
The lower the angle of the front feet the sooner the hoof has to lift off the ground because of tension on the tendons. You can't go wacking off a lot of hoof and radically changing angles without hurting your horse but may farriers leave too much heels and there is room for a moderate change.


He simply changed the shoeing of the back feet. Many farriers will square off the hind toes in an effort to avoid pulling shoes. This actually worsens the problem because it actually speeds up the breakover of the hind feet and speeds them up. So he shod her hind feet all the way to the front edge of the toes, (hind feet are naturally pointed unlike front feet). Then he made the hind feet longer. Basicly he built a shoe that had extended heels, they went straight back, they didn't grab or twist the foot like a bent extension does. This longer shoe works like a bigger foot and keeps the foot on the ground a little longer. Oh, he also mad sure that the angles of her hind feet were higher than the fronts, which is typical of most horse's conformation anyway.

The mare moved beautifully, NO FORGING!!!! I had some success getting my farrier to duplicate his work, but it was a struggle. Now I have a short backed, long legged youngster. With his first full set of shoes he was forging and pulled a shoe while trotting around the round pen loose. I explained to my current farrier what I wanted done with his hind shoes and he reluctantly extended the hind heels a bit. Of course, NB shoes on the front. BINGO!! No forging. You know I'm going to tell my farrier how happy I am and how talented he is.

Bonnie

marta
Apr. 10, 2008, 12:39 PM
on the barefoot endurance group folks suggested that i play withe boots by beveling them accordingly to help with the forging issue. i'm going to play with that although i think that the real culprit for her is the weight of the boot, not just the breakover. otherwise, she would've been pulling the shoes, too, and that was never a problem for her. the boots are considerably heavier than the shoes. i guess i'll find out when we put the shoes back on.
she does not forge when barefoot. unlike your arab, she's long backed and short legged (my dad says she looks like a dachshund;)). she only forges w/ boots and only on the right front.

chicamuxen1
Apr. 10, 2008, 01:48 PM
Marta,
ask someone to ride behind you while you trot. Leave your horse absolutely alone, no legs, no reins and have them look at her as she trots down a straight line. I'm wondering if she moves straight or with her hindquarters slightly to one side. Just curious.

My young horse only forged on his left front. That foot is slightly clubby and it's heel is slightly higher. The other foot has a lower heel and he would never hit that one.

Bonnie

chicamuxen1
Apr. 11, 2008, 07:14 AM
GTD - I tried having the mare who pulled shoes go barefoot behind and it was actually worse since the non-shod feet moved forward even faster! A barefoot can pull a shoe as I found out the hard way. I wonder if aluminum on front and steel behind would help speed up the front feet? Luckily, I may not have to try that theory. Heavens, I'm riding my young horse Wynne so little right now that he doesn't even wear out his shoes but he's tender on the gravel roads around here without shoes. And because he creates a club foot with his grazing stance, front shoes helps retain a better shape to his feet. The club shape is minimal and doesn't involve the coffin bone. $#&**! long legs and short neck!!!!!

Bonnie

marta
Apr. 11, 2008, 09:46 AM
the rides we plan to do probably don't call for all 4's but the training rides may. however, based on what you're saying, and w/ her tendency to forge w/ boots, maybe i'm better off putting on all 4 shoes.

on another board someone said, that they're not sure if their horse forges when barefoot b/c she doesn't hear it. but wouldn't there be evidence of forging on the horse's leg, even if barefoot?

chicamuxen1
Apr. 11, 2008, 12:35 PM
No, forging for a large part is stricking of the bottom of the hoof. Both of my forgers didn't appear to forge while barefoot but once shot I could hear the shoe strike shoe. On the one horse I could occasionally hear a muffled thum when shod only in front and then suddenly loose a shoe.

Bonnie