How do I sit quieter?! Critique my canter please.

[sign of Grace]

I hope this link works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClfxSy0zLrI


My boy is 7 this year and we're still at 1st level. I started him at 3 and have had to push ever since.

I understand he is behind my leg and if he were under me, it may help me to sit quieter. My trainer says to quiet my upper body, however when I'm riding, it feels like I am quiet. Then I look at the video and cringe!

Do I need to disconnect my upper body from the motion of my hips? My core is pretty strong, but I'm not sure how to engage it correctly to help my position.

I'd really like to move up, however I want the basics completely solid. I think I'm really inhibiting him at this point.

Would the Unisit help me feel which muscles I should be engaging?

[yellowbritches]

I see a couple of different things. First, you seem to be pumping against him every stride instead of following him every stride. Relax and follow his movement with your hands, think of pushing your hands toward his ears instead of pulling.

The other thing I see is that you are pumping and driving with your seat in a very artificial way instead of just following with your seat. I think if you can relax and let his back move you, instead of you trying to move, you will quiet your whole body. I think fixing one thing will also help in fixing the other. Fixing your hands by allowing them to follow him instead of pull him may also fix the "behind the leg" feeling.

He's a handsome boy! Good luck.

[J-Lu]

I agree with Yellowbritches.

Also, I think you might be able to sit better if you shorten your stirrups a hole. Maybe 2. Your toes sometimes look lower than your heel when you use your leg and maybe that you are reaching a bit. If your thigh is too straight, it can be hard to control and use your seat correctly because you are sitting on your crotch, not your seatbones. This can also put your leg on your horse more so you can use it without having to move it much.

I also see that your legs are loose through the knee and you look a bit turned out at the hip. If you keep your knee in the flap by gently holding, but not deathly gripping, and get your toes to come forward a bit more, you might find that your whole position becomes more stable, including your upper body.

Nice guy!

[InsideLeg2OutsideRein]

also agree with yb on both points. I think your bodyawareness needs to come from the ground, someone telling you at each point where you are, and you taking notice of how it feels when it's correct. Perhaps you can take a lesson with a good trainer who is known for working with the rider's position, sometimes you just have to hear things in a certain way, even if your trainer is telling you those things already :winkgrin:

A couple of things that might help are that the forward needs to come from your leg, not the seat. If you feel you can't get him forward enough have someone on the ground with a lungewhip. That way you can focus on your position without worrying about the forward and get the muscle memory going : ). Start in the back of the saddle and gently move forward until you're in the right spot (that probably makes more sense when someone says it to you in the right moment). And when you sit up and follow, roll back your shoulders, open your chest and sit as if someone was pulling on your pony tail (that image always works for me : ).

Good luck, your horse looks like a really nice boy! :yes:

[Sabine]

this is a chicken/egg question. I think your riding is fine. I think your horse needs some serious work. He's trucking on the fore- almost in a four beat canter and barely moving his rear.
There are tons of exercises to wake him up to become a PERFORMANCE horse- right now he looks more like a large western trail horse that's loping....a canter from a horse this size should be really something and I do agree you seem like a bit small lady for the task of holding this together- but then- there is always training!
I don't know what options you have- but I would consider a pro- trainer for a while to seriously put him together and I would do it soon- before he's too used to going like this.
Don't feel bad- your riding looks perfectly fine- he's just plain tuning you out and you are working hard- while he's barely cantering....it should be the other way around!!


Good Luck!
( and please don't be offended- because I think you are doing your best and I can't really find any major fault in your riding...)

[medical mike]

the impluse the horse gives you.
YOur lower body and the horse moves forward, the pelvis moves as it should, however the upper body lags. There is lots of science behind this.

So the generic fix (without physically being there to test muscle pattern to be sure).....

Need to work on activation/strengthening of your (especially internal) obliques, strengthen the glutes and stretch the hip flexors.
Your hips seem to be able to follow the horse well enough. You are just utilizing a less efficient pattern though the torso which keep you from putting your Center of Mass over the horses.

Other is to work on normalizing the strength between the muscles that bring knees together and pull them apart.

So:
Abdominal hollowing progressing to bracing. From there move to anterior driven torso stabilization exercises

Isometric swiss ball pinches starting from a supine position. Once you can maximally pinch the ball while maintaining spinal neutral move to slideboard squeezes and footwaves.

I'm not sure about stirrup length.

REgards,
Medical Mike
equestrian medical researcher
www.fitfocusedforward.us or .com

[angel]

You basically have the correct idea of riding the canter with your seat. I will re-iterate that your stirrups need to be raise a hole or two. What you are trying to do is gain that lost impulsion by squeezing with your legs. This serves to retard the motion even more. What needs to happen instead (and can only happen if your stirrups are the correct length) is that you need to keep more weight on the rear edge of your stirrups. The more weight on your left stirrup at this point the better it should become, especially for the right lead canter. As you step into that left stirrup more, you need to use your whip on the RIGHT rear to get your horse's right hind under better. This will be a little tricky, so you will have to play with the degree of whip that you need. Too much will result in a flying change or cross fire; not enough, and there will be no result. Be sure that your own left shoulder is kept well-back, shoulder blade carried near your spine, so that when you are doing the halfhalt, you think: lead with my right shoulder, lead with my right shoulder, or point with my right shoulder, point with my right shoulder. You are very close to doing it correctly in this video.

[shamrocker]

Honestly, your position is quite good. I do agree with the other poster that the horse is lacking impulsion and therefore good jump at the canter, and he is lurching you forward. He has to load his hind legs more and carry himself, and all the pushing in the world will not bring it out, instead it will flatten him out.

Definitely shorten your stirrups! They do look to long, then keep your seat quiet in a neutral state, so the horse can start to carry himself. I am big believer in using the whip to "energize" the horse. Start at the walk, and tickle with the whip to activate his hind legs, so he becomes more electric even at the walk. I also use my whip on top of the croup. I'm not talking about smashing the horse with the whip, but using it keep the hind legs active. You'd be surprised the trot and canter you get after "kindly agitating" the hind legs. I might use the whip, but I also use my leg right at the girth.

[rileyt]

You need to get after your horse. That is an appalling canter from a very nice horse. (And I mean that in a nice way).

This whole thing is caused by the fact that (as you note) he is NOT coming off your leg. That is square one, and if you fix it, I bet your pumping problems will go away.

Definitely shorten your stirrups a hair, because if they're too long, it puts too much weight in your thighs (which suppress his forward momentum). So--- get out of his way, but then insist that he rock forward when you tell him to. Seriously, if your dressage trainer doesn't help you figure this out, I'd head out to an eventer... he REALLY needs to learn the value of forward. When you touch him with your leg, he should LEAP forward. At this point you have no energy to ride, so you're sitting up there rocking and trying to create it yourself.

Seriously, you're a nice rider with a nice horse. You need to stop babying him and have a "come to Jesus" moment.

[slc2]

"You need to stop babying him and have a "come to Jesus" moment."

Nice to be able to read the person's mind - LOL.

But I think 'babying him' is not necessarily the issue.

It is just a very easy state to get into with this type of horse and it is very hard to gymnasticize a bigger more powerful horse. It seems more a 'power horse' than a little less scopy 'balance' type of horse and it is very easy to start riding them like this to get them balanced. Ask me how i know, LOL. If you try to balance this sort of horse all the time with half halts this bumping along happens, and you look like you try to half halt every single stride.

He has to get more of his balance by virtue of his big strong hind leg taking a big sweeping step up forward under his body. It seems backwards and the first impulse most people have is 'i gotta balance this thing!'

well, i think the answer is lessons with someone who tackles position, seat, leg, rein aids and also helps you train the horse at the same time. it's hard to fix yourself and train the horse at the same time but that's usually what it takes. He is so behind your leg and bumping up and down, you can see his head is going up and down just as much as your head/shoulder is swinging back and forth.

What you are doing with your body, he is doing with his body.

the instructor might say, sit more in the middle of the saddle not so much off to one side, sit still without pumping the upper body, and the horse will be able to go forward...then use your legs and have him go forward. Tell yourself you are not going to pump, you are going to change what you are doing. Yiou have to make yourself stop this motion plus make horse forward off your leg. Yiou are actually consciously pushing your shoulders back and forth, it is a habit one is not aware of but you can become aware of it and stop it.

It is 90% you being conscious of it and stopping yourself and 10% training the horse to change to more forward and more supple. So mostly you disciplining yourself. But without the training it cannot happen.

Sitting still is something you have to train the horse in such a way that it gradually will create a place for you to sit on...you can't sit still on a laboring, bumping up and down horse and it makes a vicious cycle.

There is not one simple brief thing that connects them and lets them forward, it is a play with bending, half halts and mostly forward. He is doing what we call 'patting the ground' moving along very slowly and he's not thru his neck to the bit. He is 'up' in his head and neck, but not connected to the bit. He looks like he can be correct. He looks like a very capable but stiff horse. I had one like that for years and years and 5 min with someone who helped supple and go forward and was more obvious about the clear separation of the aids (not throwing the reins at his head, but clearly separating leg and hand), and 5 min, no whipping, no nothing, he was the most forward horse on the planet.

A stiff horse can benefit from more leg yielding (for example, leg yield off your left leg down the long side when going to the right) at trot and canter, which will help to loosen up his back.

When they are connected and forward the motion is smoother. The rider can sit.

Sit in the middle of the saddle, make him go from leg and whip (take off spurs), get him connected to the bit and more loose and then you can sit more quietly.

[Feuerlilie]

Sign of Grace :) I know where you are at the moment becoz I was there too last year with my big wamrblood mare.

She was behind my leg constantly....I was nagging her all the time to get her forward...my position deterioted,....I became looser in the top part of my body in an effort to get her forward and keep her forward.

I think you need to get off him and send him forward in a major way...I think your position isfine (may need a few teeny tweaks) but really it is the horse that needs to get forward and if he is already 7 I agree with an earlier poster that said he seriously needs to have a forward button installed now before it is too late. You wont be able to advance much more without that GO button.

I was told by Uwe Spenlen to put on some rowlie spurs.....and it made a huge diiference to my mare.....it took 2 lessons with him to finish establishing the forward button but my mare is 5 and was ready to make a change.

Good luck :)

[FancyFree]

What Sabine said. That's the first thing I thought when I watched the video, that your horse is loping. It looks like, through the motion of your body, you're trying to push him forward. Whenever my old mare would get dull and heavy, my trainer would yell "Impulsion!" I needed to drive her up and forward. I agree with Feuerlilie about the spurs. I also wore rowl spurs. It helped a lot with my horse. I think you have to be conscious of not trying to push him on with your body and move him up and forward with your leg. He seems to be phoning it in, so to speak.

[Roan]

I agree with slc2: lose the spurs and get him forward with leg and whip.

Spurs are for refinement, not "go power".

Eileen

[Feuerlilie]

Can I also add I had a bit of a lightbulb moment on my mare yesterday.

I took her show hacking(for something different) and she actually enjoys it.....as we were trotting around i sat to her trot and pretended I was semistanding in my stirrups wiht most of my weight down into the lower legs.....my mare responded with a very foward and fluid trot...she really came under from behind and I felt like I was driving a V8 car...it was a very enlightening moment.:winkgrin:

[Kathy Johnson]

You are behind the motion and driving him every step with your seat. Maybe it is because he is behind the leg and you are trying to push him forward, but it is the chicken or the egg. You are driving his back down, disrupting the connection and causing the hind legs to trail. Your seat is cantering; your horse is not. Don't panic--it's normal. I remember a video of an Olympian who was piaffing madly with his seat, while his horse stood there like a stick in the mud.

Isolate where you are on your seat bones. Are you sitting on the front, middle or back of the seatbones? Does one seatbone feel heavier than the others? Experiment with sitting on different parts of your seatbones so you can feel when you start to drive. Notice what happens with your upper body as you change your hip angle.

The excessive motion of the hips is causing a whiplash reaction in your upper body. Think about the seatbones and hips moving less than an inch every step. Imagine one hand on the front of your core (one inch below the belly button) and one hand on the back of your core, holding the motion of the hips in a smaller motion.

Sit lighter. Keep your legs and thighs closed gently so that all your weight isn't driving into the seatbones. Control how much weight you put in them so you can tell if your pelvis is driving, neutral or holding.

I think he is a really cool horse and one who is very sensitive to the weight aids, which is good. He looks really fun to ride.

I don't think you necessarily need more leg to keep him going--he needs to go on his own. Use your legs/whip once or twice to get him there, then it's his job to stay. Just be sure you are not inadvertantly slowing him with your seat. Too much driving is like a massage that goes on too long.

[petitefilly]

You are behind the motion and driving him every step with your seat. Maybe it is because he is behind the leg and you are trying to push him forward, but it is the chicken or the egg. You are driving his back down, disrupting the connection and causing the hind legs to trail. Your seat is cantering; your horse is not. Don't panic--it's normal. I remember a video of an Olympian who was piaffing madly with his seat, while his horse stood there like a stick in the mud.

Sit lighter. Keep your legs and thighs closed gently so that all your weight isn't driving into the seatbones. Control how much weight you put in them so you can tell if your pelvis is driving, neutral or holding.

I don't think you necessarily need more leg to keep him going--he needs to go on his own. Use your legs/whip once or twice to get him there, then it's his job to stay. Just be sure you are not inadvertantly slowing him with your seat. Too much driving is like a massage that goes on too long.

I agree with this clear explanation. I will add a small comment: ride him on a looser rein, you are clearly jabbing him in the mouth with each stride which also makes the horse have the brake on while you are driving too much with your seat. The hand/rein should move forward with each stride, not backwards as you are now riding. "Ouch" for the horse, and he will always shorten the hind stride with each jab.

Kathy gave you excellent advice. "Control how much weight you put in them so you can tell if your pelvis is driving, neutral or holding." The problem is you are probably not sure of the three pelvis positions, you are in the driving seat and think it is the neutral moving with the horse seat. Ask your instructor to help you find the three seats, and practice letting "go" on the horse with each.

I also agree your horse is above the bit, but leaning on your hand to go on his forehand. You need to learn how to get him more on the outside rein, lighter and with more flexion on the inside, and not to lean on your hands, MORE half halts. Zillions more. Big ones. *COMMMME back to me___go forward........* Right now you are riding a wheel barrow, and yanking on that inside hand to beat the band. :):):)

All of this takes time, and an honest assessment of the two of you. I can't say I'd blame you, or the horse, it is an honest inability to see what the connection of the seat/hand/horse movement is all about. You merely have some honest misconceptions about contact and how to sit with the movement. All this can be cured, with help, and some hard work. It would help a great deal to ride the horse on a loose rein, and for you to maybe ride another horse, a lesson horse maybe, till you get your connection correct. MHO Spurs, whips, and pushing the horse are not the answer, he will only get more resistant, you need to lighten the drive, hold, jab, upper body pendulum effect to change you and your horse.

Hard work ahead, good luck, good riding, and all the best. EVERY one has something to endure and cure! :):):):):):):)

[imapepper]

Do you ever ride any other horses other than your own? I had a horse that always wanted to resist leg and suck back at one point and really started to pump with my seat as a result. It really helped me to sit on something with a little more engine of it's own. It reminded me to sit still and helped me ride my own horse better. BTW...when I stopped trying to push him at every stride, he would actually go forward much better. The best thing in the world for that particular horse was a well timed/placed tap with a dressage whip to get him to come off my leg and seat.

[Spectrum]

I'm going to be the lone wolf here and state that I think 90% of the problem here is with the rider's lower leg.

It is clamped on the horse's side, so she's absorbing all the shock through her core muscles instead of in her heel where it belongs.

The gripping with the lower leg is also very likely what's causing the the horse to suck back and lose impulsion. The more you grip with the lower leg, the more they ignore it. It's like screaming at someone constantly and then throwing in a coherent word now and then- you're not going to get much response because you've already been tuned out. Additionally, clamping with your leg tends to cause the horse to brace through the ribcage, which just compounds all the issues.

You need to take your heel and lower leg off the horse, almost point your heel away and down. I think you'll find your position totally destabilizes when you do this because you're so used to holding yourself in place with your lower leg. The tricky part is learning to do this without flexing your hip flexors at the same time- you need to relax the hip flexors and let your weight flow into your heel, down and away from the horse.

Then when you want to use the leg, use it and then take it off right away. If the horse doesn't respond, reinforce the aid, but again keep the leg *off* the horse if you aren't asking for something specific.

My mare used to be one of the most sucked-back horses on the planet. The more you used your leg, the slower she would go. Inside of 20 minutes of working with her on taking the leg off, she was leaping off my leg to a degree that it would startle me if I "forgot" and used my leg the old way. It's improved our work, our collection and impulsion immensely.

Spectrum.

[woodhillsmanhattan]

I agree with previous posters that your seat is artificial and very driving, you seem to be forcing yourself to sit. I am not going to comment on the poor canter because I think better development in your seat will lead to that and the previous suggestions are right on the mark. I always have devided the riders body into 4 sections, the lower leg: ankle, calf, knee; seat: upper thigh, seat bones, and hips; upper body: torso, shoulders, head; hands: elbow, arm, and hand. Both the upper thigh and seat bone parts of your "seat" should be in full contact with the saddle. Your lower leg should have less grip and you shoud distribute your contact throughout your leg evenly in order to maintain a more consistent and softer, more natural seat. Do not drill your butt into the saddle, let gravity work in your favor. Sitting any gait of the horse can apply to Newton's law of physics; for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So, if you push really hard into the saddle and drive with your seat as you are doing then the saddle will react onto your seat and actually push back just as hard, forcing you out of the saddle. Rather, you should relax your leg, think about it stretching down (don't force it down) and allowing your seat to remain in contact with the saddle. Allow your hips to sway fluidly with your horses motion while keeping your upper body still. I also think your upper body is very behind the motion with your hip pushed forward (this gives you your driving seat). Close the angle of your hip and think about a straigh line from should to your hip. I believe this more correct seat will allow your horse to lift his back and move forward off of your aids and into a steady soft contact :).