Can this horse make level 2?

[shadowarab]

My friend has an arab or arab cross(around 4 years old) that wasn't worked with when this picture was taken. He has a very weak hind end. She's not working him hard because he's a pleasure horse and she wants him to stay sound. I'm posting a picture of him when she first got him(he was underweight and no muscles). Should she not even try to get to level one with him and keep him as a trail/pleasure horse? I've told her to forget it since he doesn't even look like a prospect for anything. He looks like he should be a pasture ornament.

I took the photo off since I realized I do not have permission to use it and I would be embarrased if the horse's owner found this post.

[Threedaydream]

Well, judging from this very telling picture, your friend DEFINITELY



has a bay horse.

[shadowarab]

What do you mean by definately bay? Are you meaning something other than color?

[Threedaydream]

I mean that's basically what you can tell from the picture, and not a whole lot else...

[goingforbaroque]

OK First of all it is FIRST LEVEL and SECOND LEVEL not level one and level two, etc.:D

Second of all I would NEVER dismiss a horse as a dressage prospect without giving it a chance.... a year or two of proper good solid work. He is not going to beat a million dollar warmblood but heck how many are?????Dressage will make a horse stronger and help them to over come minor conformational problems. As I said in another post, if I had dismissed my horse as a youngster because of conformation, etc then I wouldn't be showing at GP today.

I don't think the horse has such bad conformation that it shouldn't do dressage. As long as it is sound now there shouldn't be any problem trying cause it will more then likely make him much better. Besides, if he is sound enough to be a trail horse he's sound enough to do dressage. Your friend will just have to take the time to do the basics correctly and get him strong. I surely wouldn't take him out tomorrow and try leg-yelding and shoulder-in and simple changes!

You are being pretty hard on your friends horse. I think he is pretty cute. How much dressage experience do you have to make the assumption that he is not suitable for anything? How have you come to that conclusion?

[shadowarab]

I think he's funky looking and kind of fugly. You can't even tell what breed he is. He just doesn't look good. I don't know much about dressage but I would have passed on this horse. I just think that she could have got something much nicer looking with a better hind end. She's just so into talking about going to level 1 and maybe 2 with him that it's bugging me and I don't wish to be rude to her and say sorry I don't see it happening.

[goingforbaroque]

WOW! Way to be a supportive friend.:eek: Post her horses picture on the internet and say how "fugly" he is!:no: Does she even know you have done this and don't you think it would ruin your friendship if she found out? Hummm, you probably don't even care.

VERY IGNORANT STATEMENTS ON YOUR PART! But I guess calling it level one and level two even after having been corrected says it all:rolleyes:

[Showjumper28]

WOW! Way to be a supportive friend.:eek: Post her horses picture on the internet and say how "fugly" he is!:no: Does she even know you have done this and don't you think it would ruin your friendship if she found out? Hummm, you probably don't even care.

VERY IGNORANT STATEMENTS ON YOUR PART! But I guess calling it level one and level two even after having been corrected says it all:rolleyes:

I agree... who needs enemies with a friend like this...

[lewin]

His hind end is fine for a horse not in work. The dressage will help him develop it. Far less likely horses have made it to grand prix let alone second level. And he is pretty well off as a 4 year-old since he shouldn't have anything to untrain. Stop trying to rain on your friends parade. If she spends a few years working with the horse and by some mis-chance he doesn't make it to second level then he will still help her develop her seat, timing, the dressage terminology, etc.

[wildREDhorse]

There's an easier way to take care of this guys...

[exvet]

Poor angle on the picture and actually this guy looks a lot like an Arab mare I bought, same age, same level of condition to do what? DRESSAGE. She has the best gaits [almost] of any of the horses I have here (actually my stallion is the best mover but she's a close second). She's taken time to get conditioned but even if she's unable to "make it" very far in dressage she's an awesome CTR horse and endurance isn't out of the question. She's schooling first level currently. I have every expectation of taking and showing her at Scottsdale in dressage - probably 1st or 2nd level. So if this guy has 3 decent gaits there's a lot that can be said for proper dressage training to put a hind end on a horse like this.

PS. I've received 3 unsolicited offers to buy my fugly. Unfortunately my son (the mare's "real" owner) has turned them all down.

[goingforbaroque]

There's an easier way to take care of this guys...

??????????????????????????????? I am probably just too thick to understand:confused:

[egontoast]

Gee. Looks like someone joined the board or created an alter just to trash her friends horse.

[2boys]

I think the horse is adorable.:yes:

[slc2]

If you're calling dressage levels 'level one' and 'level 2' I don't think you're familiar enough with dressage to evaluate any horses for dressage :)

Does it give you alot of satisfaction to talk so mean about this horse and rider? Make you feel real superior? DId she give you permission to post a photo of her horse?

I feel you need to develop your ability to evaluate conformation a little bit better so you get a better statement than 'fugly' - when I hear that word I know I'm listening to someone who's inexperienced.


Number one thing to remember about dressage, it is not a halter class, and it is not a beauty contest. It doesn't matter if the horse has a brown bridle and a black saddle. It doesn't matter if the horse has a big head or floppy ears, or is purple with pink spots. It doesn't matter if the rider is tiny and the horse big, or vice versa. None of that matters.

A dressage horse is evaluated based largely on how he moves and how he responds to the rider asking him to do something. Not on what he looks like. Plenty of 'fugly' horses win .

Most people - most in dressage - do NOT have horses that anyone would select to go to the Olympics. So what?

It is, in fact, the worst picture that's ever been posted here, I think the picture was deliberately taken in a way to make the horse look as bad as possible, from a very poor angle.

Yes, the horse looks out of shape. So what? Most horses are bought out of a field and are not kept up in good condition. You want a horse that's been on a Eurociser and worked by an expert every day for the last couple years? Get ready to write a check for about 100 times more money than you have.

If a horse is brought along carefully and slowly, it's very likely that he will be comfortable and remain so at the lower levels.

A rider can learn alot from a horse that isn't perfect. Most people learned on a horse like that and it's a good place to start if one can't afford that glamorous 20 or 50 thousand dollar horse.

THis is right where I started on a horse that looked no better. And ah...that little horse showed to 2nd level, and schooled even higher. He learned both flying changes in about five minutes, it took him about a day to learn very nice half passes, and he had a perfect straight counter canter. To top it off, seeing him develop and become more muscular and filled out over the years was a lot of fun. Then he went on to teach someone else everything he'd learned. Best of all, all that experience, I applied to my next horse and it enabled me to train him even better.

And um....typically, when I run across someone with as bad an attitude as the OP, I would insist little Sparky is going to the Olympics at Grand Prix, not 'level one or two', LOL.

[Rusty Stirrup]

You seem to be missing the whole point. This is the type of horse who would benefit the most from dressage training. It is the gymnastic training and development of the horse and makes any horse more beautiful. Any sound horse can compete at lower levels and do fine but that shouldn't be the be all and end all of the horse's training.

[cuatx55]

Why not ask a trainer to evaluate?

It's so difficult online, and we need a video to even try. By the way, don't be so quick to judge. I wouldn't hesitate to try dressage in the least.

I'd prefer to know it's ok with the owner to critique before giving my opinion. This situation doesn't seem right to me.

[cinder88]

She's just so into talking about going to level 1 and maybe 2 with him that it's bugging me and I don't wish to be rude to her and say sorry I don't see it happening.

I think you already did.

Just not to her face.

Maybe try being happy that someone has a horse they are pleased with?

Cinder

[Gayla]

Does it give you alot of satisfaction to talk so mean about this horse and rider? Make you feel real superior? DId she give you permission to post a photo of her horse?


OMG! I've figured it out! SLC2 is Stewie :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Gayla]

My friend has an arab or arab cross(around 4 years old) that wasn't worked with when this picture was taken. He has a very weak hind end. She's not working him hard because he's a pleasure horse and she wants him to stay sound. I'm posting a picture of him when she first got him(he was underweight and no muscles). Should she not even try to get to level one with him and keep him as a trail/pleasure horse? I've told her to forget it since he doesn't even look like a prospect for anything. He looks like he should be a pasture ornament.

http://i26.tinypic.com/ngaiiu.jpg

All kidding aside. I sold a horse last year that looked almost identical to this horse. He is an eventing superstar! To be honest. If you are looking at horses and how pretty they are as far as their usefulness in dressage...you are in the wrong sport! Cause we love some fugly horses 'round here. Your friends horse looks like he hasn't been worked in a while. He also looks like an Anglo Arab. TBs can look terrible when they are out of shape. But what you get when they are in shape...vavavoom... Be nice...

[2boys]

Am I the only one who thinks this person is just looking for a format to speak negatively about this horse? I truly don't think the OP is looking for any feedback. Wow, I am too "young" to be like this.:(

[SillyHorse]

Why are you all feeding the troll?

[luckyducky1983]

I think the horse is


Niceley clean through the throatlatch
Has pasterns which are not too long, not too short, not too upright pasterns.
Shoulder would probably look better if her neck were pointing forward (so would neck)
Very refined, elegant face that will look nice in a that black (or brown) dressage bridle
Lovely bright bay, will look even better in full summer.
Can't tell from the off side legs, but the legs closest to us appear to have faint shadows down the tendons - suggesting she is nice and tight as a 4 year old would be (surprisingly many are not so).
Never know - you could get that Arab spark toned down by the other breed mixed in and have a winner!


If I were horse shopping, I'd probably sit on it, I wouldn't walk away from pic alone. Something about the horse seems reasonably quiet - I know you cannot tell from photos - but she is quietly looking off to the distance. I like a horse that can do ears forward with out lookint "lit up" at the same time. I actuallylike her ears - sure big - but nicely shaped (I think thats the breed characteristic, so maybe i'm bored with TB ears)

Sweet looking horse, as far as summary goes. If she has a good brain, why not. The point of the levels isn't to "go up and max out" but to work a horse in a correct progression, and evaluate (or show off/compete) progress along the way. Yes, this horse could be worked through a correct progression - probably to second level, slowly but surely.

Remember, she is four (which could mean shes actually a true three). I would be WAY embarrased to put up photos of my 4 year old. Let alone how embarrased I'd be to put up a friends photos for insult!--- but wait ---- that would be a different kind of embarrased.....

~Please don't get offended at all the chiding you have gotten, just take a moment to honestly evaluate your motives. People on this board get upset because - I think - there is a deep desire to change our community into a supportive one, not a backstabbing (stereotypical DQ) one. Those that have gotten on your case could have such an agenda, one that is probably a bit bigger than fixing your bad habits of being snippy, but involves trying to do so given the opportunity.

It sounds to me as if you yourself would really like to be a dressage rider, perhaps at first or second level? I would encourage you to do so, and welcome you to a really enjoyable sport with horses. There is A LOT to learn, including but not limited to, terminology, a correct way to refer to the levels, and horses. I would ask though, that you rethink your etiquette here, and that you make a DECISION to be generally supportive from here out. Now, supportive doesn't mean blindly positive, of course not. This is a critical sport (thats why we have judges), and sometimes, the best of friends saves us from being mortified in front of a public audience, BUT offering criticism takes kindness, respect for the other, and a great amount of tact. Until you feel confident making evidence based critiques of your friend's horses, and further, would be willing to share such critiques directly to your friend, in a non-confrontational, verbal, supportive, well-meaning manner, I would just hold off....


I do mean this honestly, and not in a snippy way myself ...

[Ambrey]

Why are you all feeding the troll?

I wish I could assume this was the case, but unfortunately there really are people out there who would take the time to make a post just to trash someone :no:.

[MyReality]

I think second is a realistic goal for this horse. This horse is reasonable in most aspects, although one could NEVER tell the whole story without seeing the horse moves. I am not worried about her hind, she is young and it has nice enough angles so she just need muscles. The only thing I don't like about her is her shoulder, a little too straight. Other than that, there is nothing that is terribly wrong with her. Don't pay more than 5000 for her. If she has the temperament, and vet sound, etc... I wouldn't call her a prospect, but she is a very reasonable horse to buy.

[slc2]

LOL. Most 1st and 2nd level classes aren't exactly like Dressage at Devon. If a rider goes around, follows the pattern and does a reasonable job, he'll get a nice score.

i more look at how the shoulder is used in motion than how it looks when the horse is standing still. a lot of very good dressage horses stand 'straight' and move...wow do they move the shoulder. i wait to see them mover.

and even if a horse ISN'T a big fancy mover, he can still be a very appropriate and useful horse. riders with physical limitations may actually WANT a horse that moves a little shorter and doesn't have a huge booming stride.

I think that a person who's really good at evaluating a horse NEVER starts by looking at the horse.

First they find out alot about the rider, and what their capabilities are, and what their expectations are...the ideal is to watch the rider ride - ALOT...several different kinds of horses.

PLUS learn not just their expectations, which may be very unreasonable (and usually are :lol:), but also, as an instructor or trainer, the person evaluating the horse has to think, what kind of horse do you want that person to ride right now.

What sort of horse makes sense right now for the rider as their 'next logical step' if they are to progress as far as you feel they can and they are willing to go for.

THEN, after that, the person starts to look at horses. to pick a horse without knowing the rider is absurd.

Once you are thinking about the rider and what they need (budget, etc), you start to open up a whole world of possibilities. You start looking at a horse and saying, 'well, he has this, and he has that, but this doesn't matter, and that doesn't matter, not for this rider'. And that takes a HELL of a lot of experience, to have seen hundreds of horses be used for YEARS and learn what works and what doesn't.

Most of the time, you don't HAVE to find a top notch show horse, or even one that will be moderately successful, you need to find a horse they can learn from and be happy with, and that's all.

[purplnurpl]

The OP asking about Jumpers.

I don't remember how high Level 2 Jumpers are. like 3'3'' I think?
Well, a damn bovine can jump 4' from a stand still. With a competant rider all horses can jump 3' - 3'3". I think your friend will be fine with her horse.

; )

[goingforbaroque]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[TropicalStorm]

I think he's funky looking and kind of fugly. You can't even tell what breed he is. He just doesn't look good. I don't know much about dressage but I would have passed on this horse. I just think that she could have got something much nicer looking with a better hind end. She's just so into talking about going to level 1 and maybe 2 with him that it's bugging me and I don't wish to be rude to her and say sorry I don't see it happening.

Jeeze...I had a friend like you once. Best thing I did was get rid of her...
sorry, but what type of "friend" comes on here, trashes her friend's prospect and then looks for ways to tell said friend that her horse purchase was a complete mistake? MYOB. If the horse makes it to second level, good for him and his rider. If not, who cares?

[HeartsOrHospitals]

Ahem.

Not commenting on the issue at hand, but I WOULD like to say this:

I am GUESSING this poster is Canadian. Just a guess. Because we just (this past year or two) adopted the American Dressage tests, which at the lower levels are 1st, 2nd, etc. Our levels previous to this were Basic, Medium...so on.

My point (and I do have one :)) is that in CANADA, we tend to put the number at the end of the phrase - I am ALWAYS mocked by my American counterparts for saying "when I was in GRADE TWO" instead of "when I was in SECOND GRADE".

Get it? ;)

I've heard plenty of pretty knowledgeable horse people here, since we have taken on the American test usage, use the terminology "Level One" "Level two" etc. Sounds weird, but it's right up there with me completing "Grade Eight".

Doesn't make the poster a stupid horse person. I would judge that fact on the rest of the posters commentary ;)

Back to your currently scheduled train wreck :)

[rabicon]

Ohhhhhhhh I see a green eyed monster, okay maybe I read a green eyed monster :lol: My guess would be that maybe she/he is Canadian and also rides dressage and maybe she/he is JEALOUS of friends new horse. Even if OP doesn't ride dressage this sounds more like a jealous little teenager that just wants someone to agree with her because it would give her more gumption to take this back to their friend and say, "See, I told you so" A little spit in shine and good training and lots of work can make any old trail horse that doesn't look that fancy go in and win.
example below.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2575959760101424462YwUqsh

[in_the_zone]

A horse's temperment and willingness is just as important (if not moreso) than conformation when considering potential. We definitely cannot see that in any picture.

[petitefilly]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Hey, you took my reply!!!!! Crook! :):):):):):):):)

Any horse can attempt anything. Rider is the answer. I had someone tell me this many years ago: "The good rider can make any horse look good, the good horse cannot make any rider look good."

Should be tatooed on our butts????? :)

[RageMan]

I alway love the "Does s/he have the conformation to do dressage" questions, because I can say yes without even looking at the picture.

From what I can see, to do dressage, you need an animal that:

1) Is an equine of some sort. It doesn't even hove to be a horse. Mules are just fine. I've never seen a dressage zebra, but I'm pretty sure it could be done.

2) Has all the right parts in all the right places. Head should not be coming out of rump, for example.

3) Is sound.

4) Can walk, trot and canter, for mainstream dressage circles, anyway. There are TWHs who do dressage, but do running walk, and I say all power to them.

And if you have a horse (or mule/donkey/zebra/unicorn) that can do all of the above, you can do training or first level dressage.

[SillyHorse]

Head should not be coming out of rump, for example.
Although many riders' heads are up their rumps. And somehow, they still ride. :confused:

[Feuerlilie]

This horse is only 4!!
Give it a break!

My warmblood looked fugly as a 4 year old...she blossomed when she turned 5...and I have had offers of big money for her now!

I see LOTS of potential for that fugly ango horse :D

[merrygoround]

I alway love the "Does s/he have the conformation to do dressage" questions, because I can say yes without even looking at the picture.

From what I can see, to do dressage, you need an animal that:

1) Is an equine of some sort. It doesn't even hove to be a horse. Mules are just fine. I've never seen a dressage zebra, but I'm pretty sure it could be done.

2) Has all the right parts in all the right places. Head should not be coming out of rump, for example.

3) Is sound.

4) Can walk, trot and canter, for mainstream dressage circles, anyway. There are TWHs who do dressage, but do running walk, and I say all power to them.

And if you have a horse (or mule/donkey/zebra/unicorn) that can do all of the above, you can do training or first level dressage.

:lol::lol:;)

[MaresNest]

Although many riders' heads are up their rumps. And somehow, they still ride. :confused:

LOL! Too true:lol: