The wannabe eventer whining is getting tiresome

[CheeseWithYourWhine?]

Was anybody really shocked that despite furious prompting from the peanut gallery, the ULRs in the live chat came across as a happy, well adjusted group who love the challenge of a cross country course, take the welfare of their horses seriously, and know that it is a dangerous activity?

Did anybody really expect them to carry on like breathless old women complaining about "ridiculous technicality" and "half strides" and evil course designers?

Can we all give it a rest now? The eventing forum is very tiresome at the moment. The chances are, if you are not riding at least at **, then all *** courses look terrifying to you. That is the way it is supposed to work. Any sane person looks at a 5' picnic table and prefers to walk around it.

*** courses are not built for middle aged housewives trotting around BN courses on geriatric old slaughter ponies that need 4 butes to step out of their stall of a morning. They are built to see which professional riders can do them with the safety and consistency to go on to **** and represent our country.

There will be no wedges of cheese on your next BN course. There might be one skinny. There might be one related line. If you step away from the keyboard now and go outside and practice, then you and Eukanuba Snookums might find them less of an ordeal.

To save you time replying, I have put some handy prewritten responses below.

[rabicon]

Are we posting under an altar?? Thats just kindof mean. I'm that housewife. :lol: but my guy is not a slaughter pony. :no: Thats all :cool:

[TB or not TB?]

Wow. Why don't you ask Bruce Davidson?

But you know, he's probably just afraid of 4* courses.

And my dear, vitriolic bashing from anonymity is a step toward CMP's dreaded armchair quarter backers.

[Lori B]

Please trash lower level riders and their horses from your own ID, or just shut up. Preferably 'B'.

[eqsiu]

Can we all give it a rest now? The eventing forum is very tiresome at the moment. The chances are, if you are not riding at least at **, then all *** courses look terrifying to you. That is the way it is supposed to work. Any sane person looks at a 5' picnic table and prefers to walk around it.



Go read the H/J or Dressage forums if you don't like this one.

[BigRuss1996]

Wow...how cowardly can you be...almost makes you think that it was to shut all of the folks here up.
Well...I HAVE competed through Advanced and I HAVE been in the sport almost 30 years and I can say that I don't agree. I also personally know of many ULR's who do not agree with you.
The people on this BB make up the majority of our sport and they have a voice wether YOU like it or not and this is America and they are free to express their opinions for as long as they like. If you think that it is tiresome then by all means don't come on the here......

[Hilary]

I had an equally snarky response, and given the day I've had today it would feel really good to type it, but leave it that I won't.

Your disdain for those of us who pay for your clinics and lessons and buy your expensive horses is not attractive. Upper level riders exist in a world that is extremely far removed from what most of us working stiffs encounter. If that 80% of "smurfs" gave up riding and took up golf they'd be out of a job, since this is not communist east germany when elite athletes were supported by the state.


OK, so I didn't help myself. I kept typing.

[Mtn trails]

I hear that train a-coming, it's rolling round the bend.......

[eqsiu]

And I ain't seen the sunshine since I don't know when,

[JER]

Well, of course -- it's April Fool's Day!


(All other explanations for the OP are just too unpleasant to even consider. It must be a joke.)

[RunForIt]

Too bad, but the ULRs on the forum did NOT deal with the problems/issues with eventing at ALL levels that many, many posters on this board have decided are not acceptable any longer. Want to read direct, thoughtful responses - go read Corrine's, Bruce's, and Lesley's ideas on the USEA Website

If you want to read threads that deal with other parts of eventing, there are many worthwhile threads going on here - I've got my ideas thrown in on some of them too...

BUT DO NOT FOR ONE SECOND think that the issues that are being constantly being brought to the table are going away - not here on the COTH BB, nor for the USEA, nor for the ULRs...if its not what you want to read, don't read it. read something else - just don't expect me not to address these issues - they have not been fixed yet, Kevin and his committee just met...I expect you are going to find Kevin wasn't trying to patronize or placate the masses - he has similar values.

[rabicon]

See I was just trying to be nice because I'm in a good mood today :D Thanks for the others that are telling it like it is.

Oh, but I do think you need to lose the altar and come clean so we know who to put on our ignore list :winkgrin:

[pony grandma]

OK, so I didn't help myself. I kept typing.

You Go Girl!

[persefne]

If you step away from the keyboard now and go outside and practice, then you and Eukanuba Snookums might find them less of an ordeal.

"Nature abhors a vacuum. When a head lacks brains, nature fills it with conceit." -- Unknown

[NeverTime]

:lol: The poll options are pretty funny. I'd like to vote for Mark Phillips is the antichrist. :lol:

[Debbie]

[quote=CheeseWithYourWhine?;3115799]
*** courses are not built for middle aged housewives trotting around BN courses on geriatric old slaughter ponies that need 4 butes to step out of their stall of a morning. quote]

Am I the only one who can't wait to see where Gnep and Rayers and Denny go with this quote?!?! :D:D:D This is going to be waaaaayyyyy entertaining. I'll have to go grab a beer and flip some horses and get ready.

In the meantime, if this disdain is a general view among the "elite" in our sport, I'll take my wallet, my geriatric old slaughter ponies (they're 4 & 5 and cool ass, well bred athletes, but that doesn't suit this discussion) and go foxhunting. I'll hold out hope that this is a random troll and that there is room for thoughtful discussion from both pros and middle aged housewives that support the sport.

[Lori B]

Well, I will cheerfully acknowledge that I am not a gifted rider (though not a housewife, ever); but if you diss my horse, who is both saintly and reasonably athletic, that's when I have to ask you outside. :no:

[BarbB]

Deleted because I received a message from my dear departed horse

(who was athletic enough to get oooooohhhs and aaaaaahhhsss from some pretty big names :D )

that this is beneath both of us. :yes:

However, I will check back and see what Denny has to say. He chastised me and some others on another post for saying that we were ONLY lower level riders.

Should be good. :cool:

[persefne]

I'd like to vote for Mark Phillips is the antichrist. :lol:

Personally, I voted for "I ride at *** or above and hate the modern courses." I just didn't want any of the "I ride at *** or above" posters on here to feel lonely or get frustrated because their voices are not being recognized nor heard by the masses. :D

[RunForIt]

Debbie,

I share your utter disdain for the OP's stance, but I think too much of the greater majority of our ULRs to think that they would join in this thinking (and I hope that I'm not proven wrong).

Lynda

[LookinSouth]

Well, I will cheerfully acknowledge that I am not a gifted rider (though not a housewife, ever); but if you diss my horse, who is both saintly and reasonably athletic, that's when I have to ask you outside. :no:


Yeah count me in! No housewife here but don't you be dissin' my horse or you'll really have some problems!:mad:


slaughter house pony? HHAHAHAHAA... I think not. Although he DOES scoff at the BN jumps I point him to:lol:

[Debbie]

Debbie,

I share your utter disdain for the OP's stance, but I think too much of the greater majority of our ULRs to think that they would join in this thinking (and I hope that I'm not proven wrong).

Lynda


Oh I agree, Lynda and I hope you are right. I do feel that yesterday's chat was a bit patronizing and that we were being placated and patted on the head, but that could VERY well be the limits of the format and the technology.

I've got to go home and bute up my ponies so I can get the vapors trotting over a cross rail... ;)

[bludini]

YEAH!

As George Morris may or may not have once said, "Then again, I don't have much experience with coaching middle aged housewives with undisciplined thighs..." Seems like he was acknowledging that it takes all kinds of riders to make up the levels of equestrian sport.

I am a middle aged natural athlete with terrifically talented horses who have never taken a bute in their lives. I have no desire to go above Prelim. But the dismissive tone is unacceptable.

I have also occasionally dismissed myself as "only Novice" or "just Training" to which John Williams, Jim Graham, and Danny Warrington have individually given me the equivalent of the eye roll. ( or it may have been the finger )

I'll take their informed opinions of me and my horses over your uninformed mean-spirited generalities, ANY DAY.

[LookinSouth]

. I'll hold out hope that this is a random troll and that there is room for thoughtful discussion from both pros and middle aged housewives that support the sport.


I'm willing to gander it's a troll from another forum that *maybe* is just jealous that all us eventers get along so well and can DISCUSS w/o threads turning into trainwrecks ??
UL riders are rarely insulting the LL riders etc....and we just get along. On top of that, there have been some really great threads where progress has been made for the sport overall. I call disgruntled jealous troll:D

[BigRuss1996]

I hope you are right..... or whoever suggested it was an April fools hoaxs. Though still..... very cowardly...

Then again maybe I am just feeling a bit raw today as I had to put my dear sweet dog to sleep yesterday so don't have much of a sense of humor today...


I'm willing to gander it's a troll from another forum that *maybe* is just jealous that all us eventers get along so well and can DISCUSS w/o threads turning into trainwrecks ??
UL riders are rarely insulting the LL riders etc....and we just get along. On top of that, there have been some really great threads were progress has been made for the sport overall. I call disgruntled jealous troll:D

[RunForIt]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I doubt very seriously that the OP of this thread was any of the CHAT members yesterday - I may not think that they addressed the issues facing eventing, but neither do I think that any one of those people are stupid. The OP meant to do harm - this person's agenda was to cause lots of energy being spent on being outraged at the condescending statements in the post.

Let the muck sit where it belongs - not worth our time.

[denny]

Cowardice comes in many guises, and hiding behind anonymity is one of them.

[TB or not TB?]

I've got to go home and bute up my ponies so I can get the vapors trotting over a cross rail... ;)

My dear Slaughter Nag thinks trot poles are more acceptable. I'm probably fat and can't ride, so I'd just fall off over a TRUE jump. :D

[CheeseWithYourWhine?]

But seriously, what right have you got to disparage the state of UL course design?

How many people are there in the country who really know a lot about UL course design? There are probably less than 10 active *** CDs in the country.

Maybe add in another few hundred ULRs who have to know a moderate amount about CD to do a good job.

For the rest of you, which includes 99.9% of people chirping up in the eventing forum, you might as well be chirping up about how Darren's medical treatment could be improved, how cancer could be cured or how we could feed the world's population by genetically engineering a pop-tart tree.

You have no idea why a course was designed that way. Sure, you are free to harp on about it anyway. But there is a really good chance that you don't know the first thing about what you are talking about, so don't expect people to take you any more seriously when you talk about fictional half strides at red hills than they do when you say "let them eat pop tarts".

Oh, and sorry I missed "You are posting under an alter so your opinion does not matter" from the poll. That would have saved a lot of wear and tear on keyboards too.

[rennyben]

As George Morris may or may not have once said, "Then again, I don't have much experience with coaching middle aged housewives with undisciplined thighs..." -- bludini

Uh, I think it was my "undisciplined thighs" that got me housewife/mom status!
:lol::lol::lol:

In fact, I may name my next horse Undisciplined Thighs. Because my thighs are on the large side AND their "undisciplined talents" are quite possibly the reason hubby is willing to buy my next event pony.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Happy April Fools Day. I refuse to give any serious thought to such an amazingly idiotic and inflamatory OP.

[Lori B]

Your concern for the wear and tear on my keyboard, while touching, would do well to be matched with a similar concern for good manners and good sense.

And where exactly did every single LLR on this board post a detailed critique of UL course design? (cut to sound of crickets...) Whatever. I have to keep working to pay the board for my lovely, talented horse.

[RunForIt]

But seriously, what right have you got to disparage the state of UL course design?

How many people are there in the country who really know a lot about UL course design? There are probably less than 10 active *** CDs in the country.

Maybe add in another few hundred ULRs who have to know a moderate amount about CD to do a good job.

For the rest of you, which includes 99.9% of people chirping up in the eventing forum, you might as well be chirping up about how Darren's medical treatment could be improved, how cancer could be cured or how we could feed the world's population by genetically engineering a pop-tart tree.

You have no idea why a course was designed that way. Sure, you are free to harp on about it anyway. But there is a really good chance that you don't know the first thing about what you are talking about, so don't expect people to take you any more seriously when you talk about fictional half strides at red hills than they do when you say "let them eat pop tarts".

Oh, and sorry I missed "You are posting under an alter so your opinion does not matter" from the poll. That would have saved a lot of wear and tear on keyboards too.

I'm truly hoping that you keep posting...I'm forwarding each and every one of your posts to Kevin Baumgardner as you post - have at it, you are fueling our fires. many thanks. Perhaps ULRs may come forward and state that they are not you. Again, we thank you.

[BarbB]

But there is a really good chance that you don't know the first thing about what you are talking about

back atcha

:rolleyes:

...and you ended that sentence with a preposition!!!!!

[rennyben]

just saw Cheeseywhiney's last post

Guess it wasn't an April's Fool Joke.

(taps Cheesywhiney on shoulder)
Uh, Mark, is that you??? :eek:

[Debbie]

Aww now, at least the original post was amusing in some regards, at least to my admittedly sick sense of humor. The second is just inane.

Lynda, if my post in any way implied that I thought the OP was one of the riders from yesterday's chat, I certainly never meant it to. :eek: Total troll...

[HappyHoppingHaffy]

OMG, Mark?!!??! How nice of you to post under an anonymous id! Welcome to the boards if this *is* your first time here!!
Don't worry; I don't think of you as the antichrist, just an obnoxious old coot, who hasn't gone around anything since I've been alive. :yes:
Anywho, off to ride Purina. Eukanuba was so last year.
~Victoria Stewart, aka, HappyHoppingHaffy
Proud to love and care for eventing

[Fallbrook]

For the rest of you, which includes 99.9% of people chirping up in the eventing forum, you might as well be chirping up about how Darren's medical treatment could be improved, how cancer could be cured or how we could feed the world's population by genetically engineering a pop-tart tree.



What an odd perspective. If you don't compete at a certain level, you shouldn't have an opinion about it. Well, perhaps that should extend to our pocketbooks as well - 32% of the USEF program expenditures go to support "International High Performance" This is more than drugs/med (23%), regulation (13%), non-HP sports (14%) and all other programs (18%).

Perhaps that $6,000,000+ could be better used to provide educational opportunities for the unwashed masses than to benefit a few hundred HP riders who don't want to be bothered by the membership base that supports their career of choice.

[3dazey]

Wow, I didn't know CMP posted on this bb! :lol:

[subk]

But there is a really good chance that you don't know the first thing about what you are talking about, so don't expect people to take you any more seriously when you talk about fictional half strides at red hills than they do when you say "let them eat pop tarts".

For what it's worth I AM a middle aged house wife, ride the ULs and I have no doubt that my horse can kick your horse's butt.

[ss3777]

"How many people are there in the country who really know a lot about UL course design?" OP


Well, I can not say I know how to design a toilet, but I know when to call the plumber!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

not really worth responding but sorry to say...CD is not brain surgery.....I think it is something that many experienced horse people can have an educated opinion on.


An you better believe I have an opinion on where this sport is heading....many of us were silent when we lost the sport with the change to the short format. If deaths and hurt horses continue....we will lose this sport all together. I don't have an opinion about Red Hills....but I do have an opinion about the direction of courses and people who think too highly of themselves.

[snoopy]

It is VERY obvious that this poster is actually quite "concerned" by what is being read by thousands round the world...according to dear old Mark. If the OP were not concerned about this there would be no need to post.

The fact is, some very well connected individuals ARE reading these posts...I know this as fact, and have indeed been "pushing back". It was only a matter of time before one would post.

To the OP...say what you want, belittle as you please, but make no bones about it....the time has come for change...and you had better be prepared for it. I would be looking for a new job rather than engaging in school yard bullying.;)


Has anyone noticed the amount of "guests" logged in to this site since the whining began???!!!!!

[BaroquePony]

Quoted from CheeseWithYourWhine:
"But seriously, what right have you got to disparage the state of UL course design?

How many people are there in the country who really know a lot about UL course design? There are probably less than 10 active *** CDs in the country.

Maybe add in another few hundred ULRs who have to know a moderate amount about CD to do a good job.

For the rest of you, which includes 99.9% of people chirping up in the eventing forum, you might as well be chirping up about how Darren's medical treatment could be improved, how cancer could be cured or how we could feed the world's population by genetically engineering a pop-tart tree.

You have no idea why a course was designed that way. Sure, you are free to harp on about it anyway. But there is a really good chance that you don't know the first thing about what you are talking about, so don't expect people to take you any more seriously when you talk about fictional half strides at red hills than they do when you say "let them eat pop tarts".

.......


Oh, please.

In the first place, Eventing is based on military riding, which I love. It is not about cutesy little toys distributed around a bunch of cross country jumps that look like something out of Alice and Wonderland.

I am a rider and a designer and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the changes.

I do hope the OP is only playing an April's Fool's joke.

[ss3777]

[QUOTE=CheeseWithYourWhine?;3115799]Was anybody really shocked that despite furious prompting from the peanut gallery,

I believe we prefer smurf gallery

[GotSpots]

Well bless your heart. Let me just make sure I make a memo to the file of the great unwashed:

Um, Leslie Law/Leslie Grant? Yeah, your opinions aren't valid. Some of folks think that because a bunch of other riders/owners/fans who haven't won gold medals have said similar things as you, that they are nothing more than "whining" so never mind your thoughtful essay. And Bruce Davidson? You too. These folks want you to know that the only issue with the sport right now and the only thing they'd change is stricter qualifications to move up and add in frangible pins. Denny? Nope, your opinion doesn't count either. Kevin Baumgardner? Since you're an amateur even though you've ridden at the upper levels, you don't have a say in what may or may not be wrong with the sport. The 600 odd folks who took time to put their thoughts down on email? You guys apparently don't count either - naught but whining. As for the Governors of USEA and all of the volunteers who spent time responding to those issues and thinking about them? Your opinion isn't wanted. And the press who have been concerned about the sport? Yep, their opinions don't count either.

But it's good to know that everything's just peachy-dandy with the sport, that no changes should be made, and everything's just super, except for all that dad-blummed whining. Gosh, I feel much better now.

[Jazzy Lady]

Rennyben - Can you come clean the coffee off my keyboard now??? hahahahaha.

This is too much.

Who the deuce does this person think they are?

[BarbB]

Was anybody really shocked that despite furious prompting from the peanut gallery,

I believe we prefer smurf gallery

Is 'great unwashed masses' too long? Some of us are too old to be smurfs.

[RAyers]

Dear Mr Phillips,

First off, I'd like to open with a quote from that great modern philosopher, Cartman: Bite Me!

Then I will suggest you shut your yap hole about automobile design because you have no idea about the engineering it takes to make a car. Shut up about medicine because you have no idea about what it takes to be a doctor, vet or the biology/physiology/engineering, etc. to give you a quality of life. Oh, hold it I am sure you do.

If you practice what you preach then DON'T EVER COMPLAIN ABOUT WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW! A few ULRs may actually be posting here an may have commented on the craptastic direction this sport is going.

Reed

P.S. it is funny you bring up genetic engineering and curing cancer, the groups I collaborate with at work seem to be working in those areas. Oh, and since I get to play in the upper levels, I guess that means I can bitch about anything, including you and the pate you rode in on.

But seriously, what right have you got to disparage the state of UL course design?

How many people are there in the country who really know a lot about UL course design? There are probably less than 10 active *** CDs in the country.

Maybe add in another few hundred ULRs who have to know a moderate amount about CD to do a good job.

For the rest of you, which includes 99.9% of people chirping up in the eventing forum, you might as well be chirping up about how Darren's medical treatment could be improved, how cancer could be cured or how we could feed the world's population by genetically engineering a pop-tart tree.

You have no idea why a course was designed that way. Sure, you are free to harp on about it anyway. But there is a really good chance that you don't know the first thing about what you are talking about, so don't expect people to take you any more seriously when you talk about fictional half strides at red hills than they do when you say "let them eat pop tarts".

[subk]

Some of us are too old to be smurfs.
Wikipedia says that Papa Smurf is 542 years old and he's not as old as Grandpa Smurf or Nanny Smurf. So even as a middle aged housewife I don't think we're too old to be Smurfs!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Smurf

[HappyHoppingHaffy]

Wow, I didn't know CMP posted on this bb! :lol:

Great minds!!

[TB or not TB?]

How long before someone tracks the IP address and identifies the culprit?

It's funny, because people think they are truly anonymous. If the OP is a Pro or "someone of influence," his/her career could be seriously jeopardized by these insulting remarks.

God bless the internet.

[clpony]

yikes....i am a middle aged housewife, indeed. working with three ponies.
i pay my fees, work with a reputable trainer and want to have fun and be safe participating and spectating. feeling like i am entitled to a minor opinion, op.

[asterix]

I am quite sure the OP has a recognizable name. One might want to be careful when one tries to do this sort of thing -- that particular brand of nasty, self-congratulatory condescension is distinctive. You had better hope it doesn't ring a bell for too many people.

[flyingchange]

I thought that the OP was probably Mark Phillips, but then I remembered that he probably doesn't know how to use a keyboard, much less how to access the internet.

[BarbB]

Wikipedia says that Papa Smurf is 542 years old and he's not as old as Grandpa Smurf or Nanny Smurf. So even as a middle aged housewife I don't think we're too old to be Smurfs!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Smurf

I stand corrected!

Did you know that off the top of your head or did you have to go look it up?
Either way is kind of scarey. :D

[Ghazzu]

Goodness.
One might be forgiven for entertaining the notiton that the whinging fromage is a course designer afraid s/he'll be unemployed or some such.

[Grasshopper]

"
Well, I can not say I know how to design a toilet, but I know when to call the plumber!

Ahahahaha!


To OP, please consider a few quick points. I promise, I haven't worn out my keyboard, and there's plenty more life in it yet:

1) Um, many of us eventers ("wannabe" or otherwise) out here spend our weekends volunteering while you ride and design those UL courses. If the UL riders want to pay thousands of dollars per entry to ride at events with paid jump judges, then we can take our free labor elsewhere, thank you very much. I volunteer because I love it and want to contribute to the sport--I could certainly make better money spending those hours working at my nice hourly billing rate.

2) As a volunteer, I never ever want to see a fall like Darren's again. I don't know if the course design was at fault or not, but I will do everything I can to help the push to gain data and to improve the sport.

3) Many of us "wannabe" eventers happen to make a living with our critical thinking skills. Many of us have to learn and become very knowledgeable about much more complicated subjects than course design. Most of us use large amounts of that living to pay UL riders for coaching and training and donate to fundraisers when they get injured. If we walk away from the sport, who is going to buy those UL horses, sponsor the events like Red Hills, and fund the UL riders' livelihoods?

I won't even bother pointing out that many UL riders you'd like to contain in some little clique-ish group HAVE spoken out about the courses. Oops, guess I just did. ;)

[JER]

Just a thought about our friend Cheese -- he/she/it is COTH savvy enough to set up a poll.

(Either that or they frequent a BB with similar format but I suspect they've put some time in here already.)

[evenstar]

You have no idea why a course was designed that way. Sure, you are free to harp on about it anyway. But there is a really good chance that you don't know the first thing about what you are talking about, so don't expect people to take you any more seriously when you talk about fictional half strides at red hills than they do when you say "let them eat pop tarts"


Mark? Is that you, Captain?

[J Swan]

The OP is an asshole.

And a coward.

Don't feed the troll.

[VicarageVee]

I find this kind of funny.

I ride at the ULs, ride with a BNT, and love all of the "housewives" at my barn. They're fabulous people, and someday, I want to be one of them. And I don't blame course design, I just don't blame. Accidents happen, eventers are horse lovers at heart, and sports change/evolve/develop/regress, let's play it out with caution.

And, incidentally, our big west coast tracks run really well, and our competition is positive and supportive...


OH, and I'm sorry, but the pop tarts thing is really amusing. Let's have some levity, afterall.

[BigRuss1996]

Can someone on here do this please...I could guess who our Troll is....but now I want to know.


How long before someone tracks the IP address and identifies the culprit?

It's funny, because people think they are truly anonymous. If the OP is a Pro or "someone of influence," his/her career could be seriously jeopardized by these insulting remarks.

God bless the internet.

[HappyHoppingHaffy]

The OP is an asshole.

And a coward.

Don't feed the troll.

Amen.

[FairWeather]

Originally Posted by CheeseWithYourWhine? http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3116414#post3116414)
But there is a really good chance that you don't know the first thing about what you are talking about


Since we have absolutely no idea who you are (Big coward), I'll assume you don't either.

[3horsemom]

to the op,
shame on you!
you should be grateful that there is such an outpouring of concern for the future of this sport.
i am so hoping this is not cmp because if it is we should all be weeping for the continued viability of eventing.

oh, and my horse would be so insulted by your eukenuba insult, he knows he is eagle pack quality.

[Dr. Doolittle]

Just a thought about our friend Cheese -- he/she/it is COTH savvy enough to set up a poll.

(Either that or they frequent a BB with similar format but I suspect they've put some time in here already.)

Which I'm thinking would rule out the OP as being the Captain ;)

Part of me wants to retort (as many have), and the other part is thinking: why bother?? This person is *clearly* just trying to stir the pot (and those types--who *clearly* have too much time on their hands and are childish and puerile, to boot :rolleyes: are usually best ignored...they LOVE it when people get stirred up, and it only encourages them!)

[Snapdragon]

Did anybody really expect them to carry on like breathless old women complaining about "ridiculous technicality" and "half strides" and evil course designers?

Seems to me KOC had a few choice words about this in the COTH Red Hills article. I wouldn't consider her old (hey, 50 is the new 40!) or particularly breathless. Oh, and she's not the only one who rides at the upper levels who has concerns about this. In fact, I've heard some whipper-snappers (that's old-people speak for young people) who ride at the ULs discussing these very points.

The on-line chat was interesting because it seems all is well in the UL eventing world.

My new conclusion, let the ULRs decide what they do and don't want to do. If they consider the UL courses just fine, well that's just fine with me. When they and their horses wipe out, then let them carry the burden of personal responsibility. But I don't want these same ULRs dictating what happens at the lower levels.

[JER]

CMP wouldn't know 'pop tarts'. Probably would believe they grew on trees. Can't be him.

[magnolia73]

I like the idea of a wine and cheese XC course. You could stop at points and try a glass of wine with paired cheeses. Then ride to the next and it would be a bolder cheese and at the finish there would be a nice cabernet with a maytag blue cheese.

And hey- if you can't rate your horse, you'll miss the lovely Pinot after the water jump, before the bounce complex. So its kind of a benefit to stay in control.

[rideforthelaurels16]

I like the idea of a wine and cheese XC course. You could stop at points and try a glass of wine with paired cheeses. Then ride to the next and it would be a bolder cheese and at the finish there would be a nice cabernet with a maytag blue cheese.

And hey- if you can't rate your horse, you'll miss the lovely Pinot after the water jump, before the bounce complex. So its kind of a benefit to stay in control.

How about we just move the Pinot INTO the water jump so even if you can't rate your horse you still get to share in the wealth?

Somebody IP-smart, let's find out who this coward is!

[Jaegermonster]

I think it sucks that this cowardly asshat is getting all these posts and attention, when the thread on Darren's recovery and the ones on his upcoming benefits haven't seen posts in hours.
This jacka#$ doesn't deserve our energy to try to figure out who he is, if his opinion isn't important for him to use his own name. Even Denny uses his own name to post here, and the URL's and BNT's that do post under usernames, most of their identities are known too.

If it's worth saying (or writing) it's worth connecting your identity to it.

[BarbB]

I would like to think that if CMP was going to post on this forum (don't hold your breath) he would not creep on here like a coward and heave feeble insults at us. He would stomp on board and thrash us all with his swagger stick.
Honestly, he is too arrogant to be a coward. Let's give him that.

I don't think this is an ULR, either. It is just somebody stirring, probably trying to get someone here to take a shot at ULRs as a group.
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

It's probably somebody who butt-snorkles an ULR for a living.

Wipe the brown off your nose and run along now.

[Dr. Doolittle]

I would like to think that if CMP was going to post on this forum (don't hold your breath) he would not creep on here like a coward and heave feeble insults at us. He would stomp on board and thrash us all with his swagger stick.
Honestly, he is too arrogant to be a coward. Let's give him that.

I don't think this is an ULR, either. It is just somebody stirring, probably trying to get someone here to take a shot at ULRs as a group.
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

It's probably somebody who butt-snorkles an ULR for a living.

Wipe the brown off your nose and run along now.

Nice one! :D

[HappyHoppingHaffy]

Which I'm thinking would rule out the OP as being the Captain ;)

Part of me wants to retort (as many have), and the other part is thinking: why bother?? This person is *clearly* just trying to stir the pot (and those types--who *clearly* have too much time on their hands and are childish and puerile, to boot :rolleyes: are usually best ignored...they LOVE it when people get stirred up, and it only encourages them!)

It's because I had a bad day at work and I can't tell my boss what an asshole I think they are. (I have in the past and it's really not a good thing)

Mark/cheesy-whiney, thanks for the outlet. Even if you were trying to stir the pot, I've enjoyed it! Thanks for being such a dope that I now believe my boss belongs in MENSA.

[Tuckertoo]

The OP is an asshole.

And a coward.

Don't feed the troll.


Haha, to borrow from the "snarky barn response" thread...

If I wanted to hear from an a**hole I would have farted. :lol:

Yes, please, don't feed the troll, although I guess I just did.

Oh well, my post all in jest;)

Really though, who does this? :no:

[bosox]

I like the idea of a wine and cheese XC course

actually, didn't Red Hills HT have a block of cheese out on course? I guess we only need wine.....

[Gry2Yng]

Was anybody really shocked that despite furious prompting from the peanut gallery, the ULRs in the live chat came across as a happy, well adjusted group who love the challenge of a cross country course, take the welfare of their horses seriously, and know that it is a dangerous activity?

Did anybody really expect them to carry on like breathless old women complaining about "ridiculous technicality" and "half strides" and evil course designers?

Can we all give it a rest now? The eventing forum is very tiresome at the moment. The chances are, if you are not riding at least at **, then all *** courses look terrifying to you. That is the way it is supposed to work. Any sane person looks at a 5' picnic table and prefers to walk around it.

*** courses are not built for middle aged housewives trotting around BN courses on geriatric old slaughter ponies that need 4 butes to step out of their stall of a morning. They are built to see which professional riders can do them with the safety and consistency to go on to **** and represent our country.

There will be no wedges of cheese on your next BN course. There might be one skinny. There might be one related line. If you step away from the keyboard now and go outside and practice, then you and Eukanuba Snookums might find them less of an ordeal.

To save you time replying, I have put some handy prewritten responses below.


While I am concerned about the upper levels, because I would like to take my mother and my sister to Rolex without losing sleep over whether two horses will die on course, if the ULR's want to keep jumping wedges of cheese they have the right to say so. And I have the right to say that I am not going to spend my money helping them do it.

In addition, they do not have the right to turn nice inviting N, T, and P course into cheese wedge jumping fiascos. It is no great leap to say that if you see a question on an advanced course it will eventually trickle down to the lower levels and soon BN WILL be jumping a 2'6" wedge of cheese, "because we have to prepare our young Olympic prospects for the upper levels somewhere/how." There should not be ANY skinnies on a BN course.

I have completed a CCI** (long format). Back in 2003 I walked Rolex with my trainer and IT DID NOT make me pee my britches. I had a good horse and a good trainer and if I could have dedicated myself to it full time, I would have taken on the challenge of getting there. I have been an Area Chair, Rolex XC steward, Rolex Test Rider, YR Treasurer, Chef d'Equipe for NAYRC Gold Medal Teams and Riders, and tireless volunteer for this sport.

That being said, things change. Eventing is recreation for me now and the Olympic ambition of 25ish riders should not impose its will on my weekend fun any more than the responsibilities of family and profession should impose my will on the ULR,

EXCEPT for the fact that the money I earn M-F, while I am not riding my horses, pays the ULR's mortgage, it buys them nice horses, either directly or indirectly, it puts gas in their trailer. The money of the unwashed masses is what puts the banners on the jumps at Rolex. We wait at their farm for the vet while ULR's are at training sessions with CMP, we try the products their sponsors are pushing, we buy their books and attend their clinics. We hold the bake sales that pay for the trips to Burghley, Blenheim and Hong Kong.

I was disappointed that the upper level riders came off as a happy group, well adjusted to the dissatisfaction of their clients and fans. I couldn't even read the entire thread. I am a consumer. There isn't a saddle maker out there who gives a rat's @$$ if I can design a saddle, but they know better than to insult me when taking my money, and they know they can't force me to buy something I don't want.

If in fact the OP is more than just a troll, then he/she (you) should wake up to the fact that you aren't going to make it without the "rest of us" and we aren't going to foot the bill to WD from horse trails because we don't want to jump cheese wedges so you can train for the Olympics. We aren't going to continue explaining to friends and family that another horse has died or another rider has suffered serious injury for Olympic glory, and that "no, it won't happen to us".

In 2006 I put over $100K in the pockets of professional horsemen, veterinarians and the suppliers of equine products doing the sport of eventing. In 2007, that money got spent in h/j land. 2008 is up for grabs. Ignore me and insult me at your own risk.

Edited to add that the OP may be a troll, but the attitude exists and these are my words for those who would agree with the OP.

[subk]

I stand corrected!

Did you know that off the top of your head or did you have to go look it up?
Either way is kind of scarey. :D
Power of deduction, my dear. I knew that Papa Smurf has a long gray beard which indicated to me he had some age on him. Then I googled him! Love that google...



I like the idea of a wine and cheese XC course.
I don't know if this would work. Aren't we eventers more of a beer and pretzel crowd? Or popcorn? I'm popping mine now...

[pwynnnorman]

Kinda what I was thinking, Gry2yg: So owners and students, etc., are just supposed to fork over the funds and shut the f*** up?

[BigRuss1996]

Okay...so ...

I have received word from above that it is not any of our Chat people...

So.... hurry up someone who is tech savy and find out who the Cheese head is because now I want to know......

[GotSpots]

In 2006 I put over $100K in the pockets of professional horsemen, veterinarians and the suppliers of equine products doing the sport of eventing. In 2007, that money got spent in h/j land. 2008 is up for grabs. Damn it, Gry. Now I have to go do the math on the eventing horse fund. I hate doing the math. My accountant hates it more.

[Gry2Yng]

Damn it, Gry. Now I have to go do the math on the eventing horse fund. I hate doing the math. My accountant hates it more.


Sorry, Spot. Unfortunately it is much too easy when you keep your books on Quicken. Even more unfortunate is that my spouse can create a pie chart in the click of a button which shows in all too graphic format that we spend more on horses than the mortgage and food and liquor(which is the hardest to believe).

Satisfy yourself knowing that since you have more horses and live in a more expensive part of the US, you probably spend more than I do. (There is a mid 5 figure horse purchase in that 2006 number, which only adds to my point - could have bought and eventer, instead I bought a young hunter.) And that number doesn't count Ike whose board as a retiree is paid to an ex-eventer.

[JER]

actually, didn't Red Hills HT have a block of cheese out on course?

We should only jump soft cheese, like brie. Then no one will get hurt. Soft cheese saves lives.

Blue cheese is also a possibility as it crumbles on contact. But we need DATA and SCIENCE before we assume this is the case. There's also the mold issue but eventing has solved tougher problems, I'm sure.

[RAyers]

Definition of irony:

A person posts complaining about everyone's attitudes and just simply solidifies all of our beliefs even more.

The culture of change may have really taken root while we root (publicly or privately) for a comrade who is still in ICU. I really am proud to be part of it.

Reed

[BigRuss1996]

Blue Cheese smells really bad especially if it is a sunny day and its been out a while.... Maybe more of a Havarti


We should only jump soft cheese, like brie. Then no one will get hurt. Soft cheese saves lives.

Blue cheese is also a possibility as it crumbles on contact. But we need DATA and SCIENCE before we assume this is the case. There's also the mold issue but eventing has solved tougher problems, I'm sure.

[VicarageVee]

We should only jump soft cheese, like brie. Then no one will get hurt. Soft cheese saves lives.

Blue cheese is also a possibility as it crumbles on contact. But we need DATA and SCIENCE before we assume this is the case. There's also the mold issue but eventing has solved tougher problems, I'm sure.

:lol:LOL:lol:

I'd like to jump a good smelly goat cheese, then maybe we would have fewer accidents, smelly gooey goat might be worse than a solid palisade!

[Gry2Yng]

T-shirts and saddle patches.


"Soft Cheese Saves Lives"

[RunForIt]

We should only jump soft cheese, like brie. Then no one will get hurt. Soft cheese saves lives.

Blue cheese is also a possibility as it crumbles on contact. But we need DATA and SCIENCE before we assume this is the case. There's also the mold issue but eventing has solved tougher problems, I'm sure.

and as much as I love Kim (despite her alliance with CMP), if we are trying to attract folks to eventing with "cute" - the folks who are looking for mice jumping out of cheese are going to expect more than you can offer on a XC course - they are already paying big bucks to see the real thing - might be a reason to return to the "REAL THING" REAL XC JUMPS - natural, challenging (but doable without killing yourself if you're a horse OR a human), gotta think, jumps.

Go to Disney World and apply to create rides and whatever if that's your ilk - why do we have to go "cute" to make eventing better? Guess it escapes me cause I'm a lower level rider and haven't risen to that level of thinking! :lol: :cool:

[closetoperfectionfarm]

I like the idea of a wine and cheese XC course. You could stop at points and try a glass of wine with paired cheeses. Then ride to the next and it would be a bolder cheese and at the finish there would be a nice cabernet with a maytag blue cheese.

And hey- if you can't rate your horse, you'll miss the lovely Pinot after the water jump, before the bounce complex. So its kind of a benefit to stay in control.

LOVE your post! I laughed so hard, and I would be right there with ya!
This has all become rather funny after the initial shock of a serious upper level someone , being so spiteful and pathetic.
Some savy computer person should figure out who it is and that will be the end of that career. What a dunce it has to be!

[RunForIt]

T-shirts and saddle patches.


"Soft Cheese Saves Lives"


GOTTA HAVE THIS ONE - EVEN IF I GET IT MADE MYSELF!!!! :D :winkgrin: :D :cool:

[Gry2Yng]

GOTTA HAVE THIS ONE - EVEN IF I GET IT MADE MYSELF!!!! :D :winkgrin: :D :cool:

I think there is a website that can do it. I recall vaguely from the "Save the Three Day" campaign.

[RunForIt]

AND...a new ritual at events that can precede and follow the competitors party can be the....WHINE AND CHEESE PARTY!!!!! :eek: :lol: :lol: :cool:

[Jaegermonster]

And the Cheese stands alone........................

[subk]

I think there is a website that can do it. I recall vaguely from the "Save the Three Day" campaign.
Cafe Press I think.

Sorry, Spot. Unfortunately it is much too easy when you keep your books on Quicken. Even more unfortunate is that my spouse can create a pie chart in the click of a button which shows in all too graphic format that we spend more on horses than the mortgage and food and liquor(which is the hardest to believe).
I hate Quicken for this very reason and avoid running reports if at all possible. The only good news on that front is that mr. subk admitted to the house architect that HE (non-horsey person that he is) was completley responsible for all the upgrades on the new barn that doubled the final price from the estimate!

[RunForIt]

And the Cheese stands alone........................

we can only hope. :yes::cry:

[Jazzy Lady]

T-shirts and saddle patches.


"Soft Cheese Saves Lives"

I'm in! Where do we order?

[JAGold]

Erin used to "out" particularly egregious alters. Any chance the new moderators would do the same in this case?

[Jazzy Lady]

New slogan for save eventing

"Bring on the WINE! Soft cheese saves lives!"

It could be an extremely large inside joke...

[Debbie]

Now, we're talking! If the cheese is REAL, I'm totally in!

Gry2Yng, I don't have all your credentials, but you said it all and I want to be in your Amen chorus.

I also second that Quicken is not your friend when you want to be in denial on horse expenses.

[snoopy]

Erin used to "out" particularly egregious alters. Any chance the new moderators would do the same in this case?


Wasn't that a seriously big issue???


My gosh 160 "guests" on the eventing forums tonight.

[Snapdragon]

Kinda what I was thinking, Gry2yg: So owners and students, etc., are just supposed to fork over the funds and shut the f*** up?


Yup!

Please, just leave it to the professionals. After all, they got us to this point.
Why should we question anything?

[KBG Eventer]

T-shirts and saddle patches.


"Soft Cheese Saves Lives"


Someone please do this. I will seriously buy one!

[JAGold]

Wasn't that a seriously big issue???
Not sure what you mean. One instance I remember was to identify from whom, exactly, certain infamous "house guests" were borrowing computers ;)

[crazy_horse1095]

Darn, I've been busy in the OTD forum and missed out on all of this!! I'll have to go back and read all the pages when I have time. Judging from the OP's post, it promises to be interesting!

[YRAP Mom]

The Whine and Cheese party sounds great but you've seriously got to do a stand-up too. I haven't laughed so hard in a while.

BTW, Great Unwashed Masses can be GUM. You know how annoying it is when you step in it.

[pony grandma]

Best committee work I've seen in a long time. You all are putting your heads together and coming up with a campaign slogan. :lol:

[lstevenson]

Was anybody really shocked that despite furious prompting from the peanut gallery, the ULRs in the live chat came across as a happy, well adjusted group who love the challenge of a cross country course, take the welfare of their horses seriously, and know that it is a dangerous activity?

Did anybody really expect them to carry on like breathless old women complaining about "ridiculous technicality" and "half strides" and evil course designers?

Can we all give it a rest now? The eventing forum is very tiresome at the moment. The chances are, if you are not riding at least at **, then all *** courses look terrifying to you. That is the way it is supposed to work. Any sane person looks at a 5' picnic table and prefers to walk around it.

*** courses are not built for middle aged housewives trotting around BN courses on geriatric old slaughter ponies that need 4 butes to step out of their stall of a morning. They are built to see which professional riders can do them with the safety and consistency to go on to **** and represent our country.

There will be no wedges of cheese on your next BN course. There might be one skinny. There might be one related line. If you step away from the keyboard now and go outside and practice, then you and Eukanuba Snookums might find them less of an ordeal.

To save you time replying, I have put some handy prewritten responses below.


I would LOVE to know who you are an alter of! CMP????

Someone without the balls to use their own screen name obviously.

For the record, I have ridden to *** level, and I voted that the course design is currently a problem.

[crazy_horse1095]

Someone comes on here bashing 99% of eventers and what do we do?:cool:
Turn it into a creative brainstorming session complete with slogans!
Keep up the good work!!:yes: Especially since this is probably NOT the course the OP wanted this thread to take.:lol:

[PhoenixFarm]

Gee, we have a horse we saved from slaughter, and he competed at the CCI** level, so what does that mean for us?

He doesn't like cheese though. Very picky eater.

[lstevenson]

I would like to think that if CMP was going to post on this forum (don't hold your breath) he would not creep on here like a coward and heave feeble insults at us. He would stomp on board and thrash us all with his swagger stick.
Honestly, he is too arrogant to be a coward. Let's give him that.


Oh, I wouldn't count on it. After reading his second post, I would bet money that the OP is CMP.

Have you ever seen him teach? He practically whispers what he is saying. He won't let the spectators hear him. He is a coward.

[4Martini]

Uh, oh. I better start schooling Brie before my first BN of the year. Do you see it being build in a wedge, or wheel form?

[VicarageVee]

Uh, oh. I better start schooling Brie before my first BN of the year. Do you see it being build in a wedge, or wheel form?

obviously the wheel would be at the ***/**** level.

wedge could start at training

on BN all you have to worry about are cubes, small cubes, more appetizer like, really.

[Ray]

For what it's worth I AM a middle aged house wife, ride the ULs and I have no doubt that my horse can kick your horse's butt.


Umm, technically speaking, Corrine Ashton is a middle-aged housewife (who works her ass off, I am sure).

MAHW's of the world - UNITE !

[Hilary]

RAyers - your post reminded me of something.

As a freshman in college I had to read Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolution (in english class). I struggled more with this piece of text than any other thing I did in college. I hated that book.

It just dawned on me that what's happening right here in eventworld is the same process Kuhn described.

In a nutshell, you have an established set of theories. Everyone knows, likes, believes these theories and will go to very great lengths to defend these theories because their livelihoods are built on theses theories actually being true.

Change is introduced, and the established folks will fight tooth and nail, to object to the new ideas.

"New assumptions (paradigms/theories) require the reconstruction of prior assumptions and the reevaluation of prior facts. This is difficult and time consuming. It is also strongly resisted by the established community."


At some point the "revolution" occurs and enough people come to realize that it is the new ideas that are correct.

Wow. It's been 22 years since I struggled with that text and apparently, it really did sink in, because reading this thread, I thought "THIS is what that book meant!"

So, my parents did not waste their money sending me to that fancy college where I decided I'd rather not become a professional rider. Struggling with Kuhn has paid off in the event world after all.

[Fence2Fence]

Ok, I haven't read the last six pages ( I promise I will) BUT FINALLY THE TRUTH!

CMP is the anti-christ! The truth is out there *screams a wannabe Fox Mulder**

[DLee]

Maybe the silouette of a horse/rider jumping through one of the holes in a chunk of swiss cheese?? Oh... is swiss cheese soft enough?

[J Swan]

Gee, we have a horse we saved from slaughter, and he competed at the CCI** level, so what does that mean for us?

He doesn't like cheese though. Very picky eater.



Well - no wonder he ended up where you found him. No event horse worth his salt would dislike cheese. And if your full time job involves folding laundry or cooking dinner, I think you and your horse are officially one of the GUM.:D

So please, just keep forking over money and keep your mouth shut. ;)

Oh poo - the OP seems to have disappeared. The guards must have yelled, "Lights Out". You know how tetchy those guards can get. :cool:

[Saskatoonian]

I haven't read any of the responses and probably won't, but thanks for posting this, alter or not. Heading outside to ride...

[Dawnd]

What if some of what the OP says is true?

Not in the inflammatory way that it was said OR in all of it's intent but what if there is just a small amount of truth to it?

Is it possible that there are some shades of gray to the whole discussion which is what will probably make it much harder to make sense of the issues at hand? I'm asking only because I don't know "the answer".

If we don't know our enemy (meaning dissenting thought) then there is no way to defeat them. Is there any truth in the OP that should be addressed?

Reading through the posts of the ULR discussion (by the way, using BB software for a live discussion is ludicrous when there are so many options available) I couldn't help get the feeling that the ULR were too laissez-faire and a bit too patronizing. "I like it" "It won't happen to me" "I wouldn't change a thing"

And to add...it's not the accidents to LLR's that are making people question the direction of the sport. It's what's happening at the top of the sport to people who are competent.

If I use auto racing as an example again, it's the high profile injuries that get the powers to be to change the sport. Imagine if the drivers said "no thanks, I like my car the way it is, no head restraint for me". Well, it's not their choice. The sport makes the choice. Spectators do not want to pay huge ticket prices and products with their favorite racers number on it only to see them die at the end of the race.

So sport makes the choice - not the ULRs, not the LLRs, the CD, the judges, the concessionaires. If there's no direction by management/governors/god/? then there is no sport.

[gully's pilot]

I just scrolled through the whole thing this morning--too busy cleaning house and playing Parelli games with Alpo yesterday....

Here are my thoughts:

Persefne, best quote ever.

Reed, someday I hope to meet you and shake your hand. And may I use the phrase "and that pate you rode in on" in my next novel?

I would like to be there with a camera and a tape recorder when the OP called Karen a "middle-aged housewife" to her face.

I will buy and wear on XC day at Rolex a "Soft Cheese Saves Lives" t-shirt.

I never much cared for Darren before Red Hills, now I find myself thinking of him and sending up a quick prayer, several times a day.

My committment to eventing has increased, not decreased, as a result of all this. I care too much about my sport to watch it slide down the drain.

[ZEBE]

I am now sooooooooo late for work... this has been one of the most entertaining threads in a very long time. Thanks pwynnorman and Gry2yng and the rest of ya...

I'm going to make my own bumper sticker for the trailer "Soft cheese saves lives"... look for it at Plantation..!


Barbara C-K USEA member since 1985-- l/2 * rider :-)

[melodiousaphony]

Can we all give it a rest now? The eventing forum is very tiresome at the moment. The chances are, if you are not riding at least at **, then all *** courses look terrifying to you. That is the way it is supposed to work. Any sane person looks at a 5' picnic table and prefers to walk around it.

*** courses are not built for middle aged housewives trotting around BN courses on geriatric old slaughter ponies that need 4 butes to step out of their stall of a morning. They are built to see which professional riders can do them with the safety and consistency to go on to **** and represent our country.

Changes start with discussion, so no, I won't be quiet. I'm trying to understand what it takes to do a **, a ***, and a **** because some day I'm going to take my horse out and do one. That day isn't tomorrow or next year, but it's going to happen and when it does, I want to feel comfortable doing it, knowing that if I practiced hard, studied hard, and worked my tail off I have a chance in hell of making it through the course. The trouble is, when I get to that point, I want courses that I feel relatively safe (relative to the inherent danger of eventing at it's core) riding and responsible taking my horse out on. I don't want to work hard, put in the years, blood, sweat, and tears only to get to my first **, ***, or ****, walk the cross country course, and have to forfeit my entry because I don't think the course is safe. Note, this is a decision that will come not with my "BN glasses" on, if you will, but with my at that point honed eye... and I don't want to have to walk away because the course isn't up to par.

Have I walked a course of that level, physically, no... but listening to BNR and people I have a great deal of respect for discuss the current issues makes me think that when I get there, there may be an unpleasant surprise waiting for me if the trend continues.

What makes you a professional anyway? The scum on your shoe that you complain about pay your way. Who pays for a lot of what you get to do? That gum you just can't peal off. Who is sitting at the jump, watching riders go by, conveying information to keep them safe around a course? Yup, that's right, good deal of them are your middle aged house wives. So bite your tongue and consider who's the foundation of this sport.

Edit: When I say bite your tongue, I don't mean don't express your opinion, I mean think before you really insult a group of people that the sport is more dependent on then you are admitting.

[pwynnnorman]

Well, obviously the wedge would have the half stride, being at the *** an **** level.... the appetizer version of the fence would have correct striding.


What about feta cheese? It could be put in some oily liquid for a "water" to "water" jump. Then if you exited the water on a half stride (Ted's favorite technique), you could slide over a big, narrow pecan log with impunity.

[gully's pilot]

Goat cheese. Soft and stinky.

[pwynnnorman]

Nah, too solid. Feta cheese would be the equivalent of the frangible pin.

[asterix]

Seriously, is someone going to make the Soft Cheese Saves Lives Tshirt? I need one in time for Rolex.
:D

And to the question of understanding the "other side" _- I think we are trying. If we weren't so connected to it (by riding courses designed for pros on green horses, by the gobs of income we spend on lessons/clinics/etc with BNRs, by wanting, really wanting, our BNRs to have great goes on lovely horses at international events, not to yank and kick and crash in front of our horrified little smurf faces), we'd happily leave them to their cheese. But we would like this sport to improve, for all of us, and I think we are still all in it together. Resistance to change by the establishment is, as Hilary pointed out, hardly a novel reaction.

[Debbie]

And to the question of understanding the "other side" _- I think we are trying. If we weren't so connected to it (by riding courses designed for pros on green horses, by the gobs of income we spend on lessons/clinics/etc with BNRs, by wanting, really wanting, our BNRs to have great goes on lovely horses at international events, not to yank and kick and crash in front of our horrified little smurf faces), we'd happily leave them to their cheese. But we would like this sport to improve, for all of us, and I think we are still all in it together. Resistance to change by the establishment is, as Hilary pointed out, hardly a novel reaction.

Thank you for articulating how I feel on the pro v. ammy split in eventing. Is there any other professional sport where the pros and ammies are so intertwined? I can't think of one off the top of my head.

[denny]

There are a couple of lines from a Robert Frost poem, Two Tramps in Mudtime, that are enlightening, I think:
"Men of the woods, and lumberjacks,
They judged me by the appropriate tool.
Except as a fellow handled an axe
They had no way of knowing a fool."
The two lumberjacks in the poem had such a limited world view,that the only prism through which they could view just about anything was logging.
If you`re an upper level rider, no college, or little college, and all you do, and have ever done is ride, is it strange that you should judge others by the way they "handle a horse?"
To you, what you see is an overweight middle aged housewife, struggling, not too successfully, to do a sitting trot.
You may not see the woman who struggles to hold a family together, who maybe saves lives as a nurse, who teaches kids how to read, who has tons of courage, but maybe not the kind you`re used to.
So it`s easy for you to make snide, belittling comments, to think of youself as more worthy.
Pretty pathetic.

[gully's pilot]

Denny, don't forget the last stanzas of that poem:

"But yield who will to their separation
my object in living is to unite
my avocation and my vocation
as my two eyes make one in sight.

Only when love and need are one,
and work is play for mortal stakes,
is a good deed ever truly done
for Heaven and the future's sakes."

Here we are, at work and play.
and I would be glad to set up a Cafe Press account for the "soft cheese saves lives" shirts. Can someone do the graphics? That's not my strength.

[NRB]

edited b/c heck I put my dog down Monday as well and I feel like $#^*. And I feel like just giving up on it all. I mean I'm not going to renew my USEA membership #, I'm not going to take any clinics w/ ULL riders and I'm not going to volunteer this year either. I quit. And for the record I am proud to be one of the great unwashed, the LLR.

[devcubber]

I would be glad to set up a Cafe Press account for the "soft cheese saves lives" shirts. Can someone do the graphics? That's not my strength.

I will get to work on graphics today, I'll PM you with lookey loos...

and I must say, I just sat down with a big mug of coffee for my morning COTH read, and after reading this whole thread, I must go change my jammie pants...I might have peed myself with laughter!

OH! And it just dawned on me! I'm a middle aged housewife! EEk!

[pwynnnorman]

OK, I just gotta say it: I'm middle aged and decidedly overweight...

But I am NOT married to my house. (And if I were, I'd divorce it in a minute and run off with a four-horse wth full living quarters.)

[bornfreenowexpensive]

If you`re an upper level rider, no college, or little college, and all you do, and have ever done is ride, is it strange that you should judge others by the way they "handle a horse?"
To you, what you see is an overweight middle aged housewife, struggling, not too successfully, to do a sitting trot.
You may not see the woman who struggles to hold a family together, who maybe saves lives as a nurse, who teaches kids how to read, who has tons of courage, but maybe not the kind you`re used to.
So it`s easy for you to make snide, belittling comments, to think of youself as more worthy.
Pretty pathetic.


It was first seeing that type of attitude in the show ring that sent me back to law school instead of staying with horses full time. I decided I didn't want my world that limited. It is an attitude that I hate but is very common in the horse world (all disciplines).

[LoveToJump]

I too will purchase a shirt. Is there a way to get a total count of how many shirts and in what sizes? Or do you just put it out there and whoever buys it, buys it? I am happy to do a tally or something. Anything to help the cause! Let me know if there is a way that I can assist.

I LOVE eventers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FairWeather]

Gee, we have a horse we saved from slaughter, and he competed at the CCI** level, so what does that mean for us?

He doesn't like cheese though. Very picky eater.

Phoenix, it means that he is useless. You should have him shot. To not have done so already is irresponsible and shows to your lack of commitment to the sport.

[NRB]

If you`re an upper level rider, no college, or little college, and all you do, and have ever done is ride, is it strange that you should judge others by the way they "handle a horse?"


Denny thanks for putting that into perspective. I remember spending part of a summer as a kid living with and riding under a ULR, Pan Am member who's outlook on life was limited to only horses. I remember thinking "Boy I bet she doesn't even notice the flowers in the spring time". I thought what a small world she must live in, and how I wanted more out of life.

[eqsiu]

Maybe the silouette of a horse/rider jumping through one of the holes in a chunk of swiss cheese?? Oh... is swiss cheese soft enough?

A Swiss Cheese keyhole jump! I can see it now!

[Fence2Fence]

I woke up with PMS this morning, and after skimming this topic, I'm a much happier person--I've laughed so hard through it.

CMP is the anti-christ! LOL

[texang73]

:lol: The poll options are pretty funny. I'd like to vote for Mark Phillips is the antichrist. :lol:

I did! :lol:

[Pixie Dust]

Well, in spite of my dillusions, I am middle aged. I keep forgetting that fact. In a conversation with my most recent boyfriend who is 9 years younger, I said something to the effect "OMG, I'm so old, boohoo" and he said don't be ridiculous your only other choice is to be dead. We have two choices; live or die. This made me realize that insulting someone for being alive is more stupid than I can fathom, and makes you look like you have no analytical skills.

We all excel at one thing or another and I'm pretty certain I'm better at *something* than the OP, but I'll refrain from blabbing about it.

ETA wine and cheese is never a bad thing.

[FairWeather]

Denny thanks for putting that into perspective. I remember spending part of a summer as a kid living with and riding under a ULR, Pan Am member who's outlook on life was limited to only horses. I remember thinking "Boy I bet she doesn't even notice the flowers in the spring time". I thought what a small world she must live in, and how I wanted more out of life.

Exactly. In the riding world the ULR's might be the end-all be-all to those who know them in their little pond, but sorry folks. You arent all that important in the grand scheme of life, and I'm fairly certain your visits to the local mall/grocery store/airport are not filled with legions of non-horse loving public throwing themselves at your feet.

I'm constantly struck with a thought that I sometimes say out loud, much to the horror of fellow horse folk. They are ONLY horses. This is ONLY riding. We/you/they are not as important as we think we are, no matter how many people line up to have you sign a magazine/poster/shirt/whatever.

A few years ago I was at a dinner party where the populace was primarily dancers. They talked about dancing all.night.long. ALL NIGHT. You never heard such discussion about technique, teaching, theory, blahblahblahblahdancethisdancethat. And you know what? Those people bored me to tears. As a people, horse folks are just that boring to those who do not share the same world because we're just not that big a deal. The realization that my world was just as boring to non-horsey folk was enlightening.

I'm meandering (it's the way of my people) but as Denny said, it's rather pathetic seeing someone hide behind a screen name while sitting on a throne and picking on people who have lives and are, ya know, interesting.

[saje]

FairWeather, you are indeed the cat's pyjamas :cool:

[CANTEREOIN]

The two lumberjacks in the poem had such a limited world view,that the only prism through which they could view just about anything was logging.
If you`re an upper level rider, no college, or little college, and all you do, and have ever done is ride, is it strange that you should judge others by the way they "handle a horse?"
To you, what you see is an overweight middle aged housewife, struggling, not too successfully, to do a sitting trot.
You may not see the woman who struggles to hold a family together, who maybe saves lives as a nurse, who teaches kids how to read, who has tons of courage, but maybe not the kind you`re used to.
So it`s easy for you to make snide, belittling comments, to think of youself as more worthy.
Pretty pathetic.

I have tears in my eye... you understand how hard it is .... and I do belong no matter what level I ride. Thanks Denny!

[Bensmom]

OK, I just gotta say it: I'm middle aged and decidedly overweight...

But I am NOT married to my house. (And if I were, I'd divorce it in a minute and run off with a four-horse wth full living quarters.)


Wynn, :lol: this made my whole day! :lol: I rarely post just to say "me too!" but I have to this time! :lol:

Libby (who turns 40 on Tuesday, could shed a pound or two, and is in the middle of a divorce and just completely separated from the house on Monday!)

[magnolia73]

I'm fairly certain your visits to the local mall/grocery store/airport are not filled with legions of non-horse loving public throwing themselves at your feet.


No- in general if you have your boots and breeches on and left your spurs on they *might* proposition you for some S&M. So you might get someone throwing his or herself at your feet, but it is not horse related.

[FairWeather]

FairWeather, you are indeed the cat's pyjamas :cool:

Thanks Sage! I'll be signing hats and magazines (Bring your own) next to the Doggy Daycare at Rolex on Friday. No need to pay me, but I appreciate donations of bourbon. You'll want to be there, because I'm kind of a big deal. (http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=bst&media=WAVS&type=Movies&movie=Anchorman_The_Legend_Of_Ron_Burgundy&quote=abigdeal.txt&file=abigdeal.wav)

[snoopy]

LOVE the link!!!!

[asterix]

hmm, pdid. guess I'm not the only one to twig to the voice behind the curtain (actually, I already knew I wasn't). Feel as though I missed an opportunity to make money off of a bet here. Dang, and I wanted new paddock boots at Rolex, too.:sigh:

[LisaB]

Pardon my language to those of you whom I respect but regarding:


how cancer could be cured or how we could feed the world's population by genetically engineering a pop-tart tree.


Fuck you.
I just spent 3 days (including my Sunday) helping in my best way to defend this country. And yesterday while travelling, I was getting updates on my sister on HER CANCER. Yup, I'm 110% of getting it. And you know what? While I'm in a high pressure job and have family responsibilities (going to take care of her after my mom leaves and using my vacation instead of showing), I use my riding as an escape. I'm happy, smiling, jovial goofball because I can. I'm not out there saving the world, helping my 40 yo sister with 2 baby sons and a mentally retarded teenager, I'm escaping from all of that for 1 hour a day and a possible weekend here and there.
Shit on you, stupid. I don't mock you because you can't develop a partitioned database with rman backups on an Oracle10g platform. Why? Because that's not your job.
And I'm writing this during a free moment while my processes are running. I sit in front of a computer all day and my social pattern is typing out responses to friends whom I only see at shows or clinics.
And I will tell you right now, I have FAR greater analytical skills than you. I can be an armchair rider. Why? Because of my analysis of the situation. I far excel at this with the data at hand.
We don't like the turn eventings taking and we don't like seeing our riders and horses die. STUPID!

[Ilex]

The smurfs are french?

Le Grande Schtroumpf.

Thanks for the wiki link.....just a loved it.

[RAyers]

F$&k you!

Can I get an "Amen" people? Say "Hallelujah!"

Sometimes those are the only words needed.

Reed

[pinkngreen]

I also just realized that I am one of those horrid housewives. What a horrible thing that I want to raise my child instead of working. If you've ever taken care of a child and a home you know it actually is work. I'm hoping to raise a child that loves horses and will love eventing. Maybe one day he might represent us on the USET. Us middle aged housewives are the future of our sport because we are moulding many of our future ULRs!

The most important thing I learned while I was a working student back in the 90's was that I didn't want the lifestyle of an olympic bound rider. I got so tired of my whole world, even social life, revolving around horses. If we went out at night the working students and grooms hung out on one side of the bar while the ULRs hung out on the other side. Though it was fun swapping stories about what went on in our barns! When I went back to reality it was nice to have a well rounded life. I had really missed having conversations that were non horse related.

This post took me a good half hour to type because the hopeful future of our sport that I am raising was giving me some whine but without the cheese.

[snoopy]

[QUOTE=CheeseWithYourWhine?;3115799]*** courses are not built for middle aged housewives trotting around BN courses on geriatric old slaughter ponies that need 4 butes to step out of their stall of a morning. They are built to see which professional riders can do them with the safety and consistency to go on to **** and represent our country.
QUOTE]

Hey W&C -

Don't forget to make sure to put a "stick up [insert name of your lame horse]'s ass" (as your SO so lovingly puts it) before the Sunday morning jog so that you can make it to SJ!

Hey W and C
Funny that you talk of geriatric slaughter ponies...didn't you ride one to the three star level???!!! OOOPS did I actually say that?

[Ja Da Dee]

I don't mock you because you can't develop a partitioned database with rman backups on an Oracle10g platform. Why? Because that's not your job.



yep. Riding is a hobby for many of us, that doesn't mean we are stupid, just have different skill sets.

[Gry2Yng]

Just to set the record straight, VicarageVee said "Soft Cheese Saves Lives". I only suggested it for a t-shirt.

I vote Buffalo Mozzarella for the water jump.

I also just realized that I am, not only middle aged, but a middle aged housewife and stay at home mom. Three things I never imagined I'd be.

I am raising a future pony rider and I hope that she has the opportunity to ride in open fields like I did and to enjoy the sport of Three Day Eventing. Imagine the amount of cash I am going to spend on my KID! My husband never wanted the horse trailer with living quarters before, but if his daughter asks for it, you can bet your eye teeth we will be shopping for living quarters and ponies and lessons and all the things that make the ULR's world go round.

I love the fact that the members of this board can quote such appropriate poetry and other literary references to enhance he discussion.

Has anyone else considered the possibility that the OP is stirring the pot just to keep the fires alive. After the ULR Chat, I got very depressed that we were going to get blown off again. Thanks to the OP I was re-energized.

[magnolia73]

What's funny is how GOOD some of these chunky "housewives" who have other jobs actually are.... and that MANY of them area actually better at riding, training and teaching than many people who have hung out a shingle. I won't list them- but a whole lot of the people who post here from work have some serious skills. There are some that get on the most nervous OTTB and start re-molding them into great prospects. There are some that know their way around a barn and vet care. Yeah- they might not have the wherewithall to try a *** course- but they KNOW horses and riding and have the sophistication to analyze situations.

[MajMeadowMorgans]

I woke up with PMS this morning, and after skimming this topic, I'm a much happier person--I've laughed so hard through it.

CMP is the anti-christ! LOL

I got called off my horse into work early. I was not a happy camper. Oh well, all better now! Poor Alpo probably deserves a day in the pasture away from my ineffective and bumbling riding :D

[bambam]

thank you to those who have provided some insight into who our OP may be
I think I now know who will not see a dime of my lesson/clinic/horse purchasing money :lol:
I would never knowingly support someone who holds lower level riders in such contempt
such a shame- me and my geriatric slaughter pony need lots of training and since the geriatric slaughter pony won't be able to event to those high and ohhh so scary levels above tadpole, I will likely need a new one soon :winkgrin:

[zagafi]

T-shirts and saddle patches.


"Soft Cheese Saves Lives"

Thanks. I just wet myself.

[VCT]

Oh c'mon you guys...
Who cares what this asshat thinks?

Use your energy to contribute to the changes needed to be made and focus on what you want to happen. Don't bother spending any energy on people or posts like this...

I forget the comedian's name but: YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!

So just don't worry about what some anonymous jerk thinks.


Denny: You rock.

[Gry2Yng]

One thing they know in h/j land is that middle age housewives, who would rather leave their hands unmanicured than walk in a Grand Prix ring, make their world go round.

Whether ULR have disdain for them, I do not know, but they sure won't insult the people who pay the bills.
They also work very hard to keep those ladies SAFE. There is no glory in over facing the client. (I do not always agree with the methods employed and sometimes they are used to produce the win, but safety and confidence building are part of the program for the most part.)

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Whether ULR have disdain for them, I do not know, but they sure won't insult the people who pay the bills.

Many do....they just are not stupid enough to insult them publicly. It is the way the world works unfortunately.

[zagafi]

There are a couple of lines from a Robert Frost poem, Two Tramps in Mudtime, that are enlightening, I think:
"Men of the woods, and lumberjacks,
They judged me by the appropriate tool.
Except as a fellow handled an axe
They had no way of knowing a fool."
The two lumberjacks in the poem had such a limited world view,that the only prism through which they could view just about anything was logging.
If you`re an upper level rider, no college, or little college, and all you do, and have ever done is ride, is it strange that you should judge others by the way they "handle a horse?"
To you, what you see is an overweight middle aged housewife, struggling, not too successfully, to do a sitting trot.
You may not see the woman who struggles to hold a family together, who maybe saves lives as a nurse, who teaches kids how to read, who has tons of courage, but maybe not the kind you`re used to.
So it`s easy for you to make snide, belittling comments, to think of youself as more worthy.
Pretty pathetic.


Thanks, Denny! You have no idea how much this overweight (but working on it!) middle aged working mother of 3 appreciates this. This is a DREAM for me to chase and I don't need some asshat's rude commentary (though I'd *love* for him or her to have the sack to say it to my face--then we'd have some fun). And my horse is fabulous, so said asshat can bite me. :D

[mbarrett]

Hey, stupid! I would have to say I'm middle-aged and slightly overweight. I'm not a housewife, but I do have a job. I work my bum off so I can ride my horse, what is he called, a "rescue horse." I also have a life. Which Cheese/Whine obviously doesn't have.

Any pro, or wanna be pro, (I can't decide if you are a real pro. or just a faker so you can get attention) knows that the ammy's of the world butter the professional's bread. I know you would love to raid my pocketbook and would say "anything" to get me to spend it on you!

If it wasn't for the middle-aged, overweight, housewives, who trot over BN fences, you wouldn't have much income! We are the ones who support the pros: we take lessons and clinics from them, purchase horses from them, go to shows to get coached and pay day fees, hotels and meals of the pros coaching us at shows. We also support the events buy paying for entry fees and stalls, etc. etc.

We shell out a lot of money to enjoy the sport. Did you notice I said "enjoy the sport?" Most of us keep horses and the rest of our lives in persepective. Just because we ride at BN or Novice, or Training, doesn't mean that we don't know about the upper levels. We all have common sense, and if something stinks, we sniff it out and get rid of it.

I think this person is the type who wants to rattle our cage and then sit back and watch the fireworks. What a coward. I think that many of the posters on the eventing threads are passionate about this sport and have made many constructive suggestions to improve the sport, in light of the recent accidents.

I don't know why he/she would kick the goose that lays the golden egg? Stupid, I guess.

[persefne]

My committment to eventing has increased, not decreased, as a result of all this. I care too much about my sport to watch it slide down the drain.

Hey GP! How are things in Bristol? I need to get up there sometime this summer, so if you've got anything going on, let me know.

Like GP, I've done some thinking and evaluating of people, places, and aspects of this sport in recent days. I have not been on the COTH boards for a while, as I am sort of a one-person-show in the eventing world here in Knoxville and I sort of do my own thing in the "real world" (I travel alone, show alone, ride alone, train alone, clinic alone, etc.) but I have come back on here lately, particularly after Red Hills, because I miss this community of fellow riders, eventers, and like-minded thinkers. It is always in tragedy when most people become the neediest - seeking out the thoughts, comfort, and understanding of people who understand. That's sort of how I've been the past few days, as I have come back on here and seen much of this discussion (and even visiting rather old posts I've missed over the past 6-8 months). A number of you are friends in "real life" but others of you, who I've never actually met, feel like friends, and I feel like the OP of this thread has made one very, very serious mistake in all this: not understanding the fact that there are REAL PEOPLE on the other side of these posts, icons, smilies, and computer-generated words. It's easy to feel as though you can step on sensibilities and spout your garbage, when there *really isn't anybody on the other side of this computer screen* and there are no actual or concrete consequences. I think that there is about to be a moment in time, when some of the people who previously disregarded the credibility of BB users, finds out just how valuable we all really are.

[YRAP Mom]

How about "The Cheesey Riders"? Has kind of a ring to it don't you think?

[gully's pilot]

Persefne, I know it's hard in east TN! I shut down Walnut Ridge as a boarding barn because I still can't find a trainer to run it, but we're still open for schooling, so feel free to come over! Logan's moved Syd into my white barn, and I'm enjoying having him around for hacks. And, we're planning on MayDaze, so if you can come to that one, put us down for stabling buddies. Nick will be there for coaching. We won't be at River Glen--conflicts with dressage rally for my daughter.



OK, now the real on-topic post. I was just out doing trot-sets for an hour and thinking about all this. I know on Cafe Press you can add a profit to stuff--you can order a shirt, say, that would normally be a $17 shirt, and have it cost $18 with $1 going to some sort of organization.

Of course we could make the Soft Cheese Saves Lives shirts a fundraiser for Darren. But I think I may have a better idea. Someone asked why didn't eventing have an injured eventers fund, like the Injured Jockeys fund. Why don't we start one I can investigate how the Injured Jockeys fund works, and we could model it on that, only have it be for eventers. I'm sure it would have to be run through the USEA, but Kevin seems like a reasonable chap.

What do you all think? Please send or post all opinions. This is kind of fun!

I agree on the Buffalo Mozzarella--nothing but the best for water jumps. With a nice ripe tomato as each wing, and some fresh basil for the decoration.

Oh, and one more question, if anyone knows the answer: I saw some photos of the Red Hill jumps, and that cheese one, the mouse's head seemed to be sticking out the top. Doesn't that make the top of the head the height of the jump? Was the whole jump then smaller than regulation?

[53]

I just made myself a "soft cheese saves lives" t-shirt on cafepress. Super easy, and with shipping, just over $20.

I'll have mine on at the Fork and Longleaf. I got a cap-sleeved T, but there are tons of other designs. I'll have to see how it turns out, but I think it will do the trick.

Simple to make the graphic, make it in power point and save it in PNG format. (when you click 'save as' on your computer, there will be a drop down box that will let you choose the format. I can email mine to anyone who wants it, but its just 4 words on a power point slide.

[snoopy]

Persefne, I know it's hard in east TN! I shut down Walnut Ridge as a boarding barn because I still can't find a trainer to run it, but we're still open for schooling, so feel free to come over! Logan's moved Syd into my white barn, and I'm enjoying having him around for hacks. And, we're planning on MayDaze, so if you can come to that one, put us down for stabling buddies. Nick will be there for coaching. We won't be at River Glen--conflicts with dressage rally for my daughter.



OK, now the real on-topic post. I was just out doing trot-sets for an hour and thinking about all this. I know on Cafe Press you can add a profit to stuff--you can order a shirt, say, that would normally be a $17 shirt, and have it cost $18 with $1 going to some sort of organization.

Of course we could make the Soft Cheese Saves Lives shirts a fundraiser for Darren. But I think I may have a better idea. Someone asked why didn't eventing have an injured eventers fund, like the Injured Jockeys fund. Why don't we start one I can investigate how the Injured Jockeys fund works, and we could model it on that, only have it be for eventers. I'm sure it would have to be run through the USEA, but Kevin seems like a reasonable chap.

What do you all think? Please send or post all opinions. This is kind of fun!

I agree on the Buffalo Mozzarella--nothing but the best for water jumps. With a nice ripe tomato as each wing, and some fresh basil for the decoration.

Oh, and one more question, if anyone knows the answer: I saw some photos of the Red Hill jumps, and that cheese one, the mouse's head seemed to be sticking out the top. Doesn't that make the top of the head the height of the jump? Was the whole jump then smaller than regulation?




http://www.eventingcanada.com/Main/RideforRiders/BenevolentFund/benevolentfund.html

http://www.eventingcanada.com/Main/RideforRiders/rideforriders.html

Maybe do something along the same lines as above!

and robert dover's fund is designed for the same purpose.

The canadian fund...seems to work well.

[ne900]

It saddens me that there is such an elitist attitude from some people about who is entitled to speak up about this sport.

I'm a relatively recent convert (about 4 years now) from another equestrian discipline in which elitism is commonplace (and in which I competed for about 20 years). I was attracted to eventing because of the camaraderie between competitors, as well as the hard work and horsemanship required to reach one's goals. These things were entirely different from my experiences with my former equestrian discipline and extremely refreshing. You can't just go out and buy last year's Rolex winner and expect to win a 4-star. You need to earn your way through the levels by constantly improving your education.

I've spent the last few years working my way from BN to T with the goal of maybe riding at Prelim someday. It shouldn't matter that Prelim is the highest level that I ever want to compete at. The road towards becoming a more competent rider at any level should be equally worthwhile regardless of what level a rider aspires to. The fact that eventing offers goals to riders with different levels of aspirations (as well as pocketbooks) and puts the emphasis on good horsemanship are the best aspects of the sport IMHO.

I enjoy watching our top ULRs compete and being able to compete side-by-side with them at some events. Sometimes, however, reading these forums has me looking forward to competing less and less. Is it worth the time and money I invest as well as the sacrifices that I am making? I see the same politics and elitism developing that drove me from my former equestrian discipline.

If we love our sport, we at the lower levels should be proud of watching top ULRs and top horses and work hard to meet their goals of representing the US on a team. At the same time ULRs should be proud of sharing their skills and knowledge with middle-aged adult ammies who are working equally hard to meet their riding goals in the midst of often conflicting priorities from work and family. And what about riders without large pocketbooks or sponsorships who are trying to conquer the gap between Prelim and Intermediate with aspirations to go Advanced on horses they are bringing along themselves? Shouldn't the sport have room for them as well? The divide that has developed between some ULRs and the rest of the eventing community can only be described as very sad and disheartening.

As others have pointed out- the upper levels of this sport need support from those of us at the lower levels. I hope that we can find a way to keep eventing a fun and fulfilling sport for all of us who love it.

[persefne]

Persefne, I know it's hard in east TN! I shut down Walnut Ridge as a boarding barn because I still can't find a trainer to run it, but we're still open for schooling, so feel free to come over! Logan's moved Syd into my white barn, and I'm enjoying having him around for hacks. And, we're planning on MayDaze, so if you can come to that one, put us down for stabling buddies. Nick will be there for coaching. We won't be at River Glen--conflicts with dressage rally for my daughter.

No MayDaze for me this year. My traditional "MayDaze" travel buddy is getting married that weekend, so I'll be in Bristol for her wedding. I'm not going to be doing anything recognized until the Area III championships in June, and that may be all I can afford this year! I've put a little money into getting Eddie and Reece to a local dressage trainer this spring and I hope to send Reece back again for a month this summer. So, if I end up doing anything recognized beyond championships this year, it'll be a bonus, not a given. I'd love to come up there next time you have Nick in town, as I'm going to have to spend my time training/schooling because money is tight right now.

I think an "Injured Eventers" fund would be really nice. And, what better way to show the likes of the OP that WE do have a voice, a mind, a leg-to-stand-on in our sport when - despite the way he/she indicates the UL's rule the sport - that it's the LLR's who support it and keep it going. There are some really classy people in eventing, and on this BB, and it'd be nice to give everyone the opportunity to show the type of intelligent, respectful, and considerate people we are, in "real life," on a daily basis. There are some really deserving riders out there who could use (and have already received) as much help as we can give them, following a catastrophic injury, and if the OP has his/her way, there will probably be more. :(

[Fallbrook]

How about "The Cheesey Riders"? Has kind of a ring to it don't you think?

New helmet covers

http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/packer_cheesehead.jpg
:D:D:D

[Jazzy Lady]

This is great... but Darren is a Munster cheese fan ;) hahaha

oh, but he does love his mozza too...

[Snapdragon]

New helmet covers

http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/packer_cheesehead.jpg
:D:D:D

That would be priceless with a mouse (or smurf) sticking out of the top!!

[devcubber]

Phoenix, it means that he is useless. You should have him shot.

I put down all my useless ones using Sharp Cheddar. Or Muenster. It's really more humane.:D

[Jealoushe]

ummm Im nosey. Can someone PM me who the OP is so I dont waste my money either..

[ss3777]

OMG, just when it could not get any funnier, the cheese helmet arrives!!! Maybe we should all send some cheese to whoever we decide needs the most enlightenment? The OP really underestimated the power of the smurf!!

I have been trying to figure out the OPs real name and still no luck. I wanted to thank him for a great thread!!

[hey101]

It's probably somebody who butt-snorkles an ULR for a living.

Wipe the brown off your nose and run along now.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Oh dear god. I feel faint.... must stop laughing... before boss figures out I'm not expiring in my office due to work-related emails...

[arktos19]

...and at the finish there would be a nice cabernet with a maytag blue cheese.


<whines> "But I don't LIKE blue cheeeeeeze!!!" :D

Love the sheep's milk feta, though!

[JER]

OK, now the real on-topic post. I was just out doing trot-sets for an hour and thinking about all this. I know on Cafe Press you can add a profit to stuff--you can order a shirt, say, that would normally be a $17 shirt, and have it cost $18 with $1 going to some sort of organization.

Of course we could make the Soft Cheese Saves Lives shirts a fundraiser for Darren. But I think I may have a better idea. Someone asked why didn't eventing have an injured eventers fund, like the Injured Jockeys fund. Why don't we start one I can investigate how the Injured Jockeys fund works, and we could model it on that, only have it be for eventers. I'm sure it would have to be run through the USEA, but Kevin seems like a reasonable chap.

What do you all think? Please send or post all opinions. This is kind of fun!


The UK has the Mark Davies Injured Riders' Fund (http://www.mdirf.co.uk/WhatWeDo.asp). The fund was started by the parents of eventer Mark Davies, who died at Burghley in 1988. The MDIRF provides all kinds of support/assistance to injured equestrians and supplies air ambulance support at horse trials.

[JER]

Another thought, inspired by the cheesehead helmet idea.

Why don't we wear Smurf helmet covers? White, slouchy, conical helmet covers that speak directly to our inherent Smurfiness?

CMP will know who we are and see us coming.

[snoopy]

I wanted to thank him for a great thread!!


"Him" just very well be "her"

[ne900]

Jealoushe: If someone pm's you, will you pm me? I also don't want to spend any money on the OP.

[Fallbrook]

Jealoushe: If someone pm's you, will you pm me? I also don't want to spend any money on the OP.

Me too - with 5 horses and a junior rider to support I would like to make sure my funds are not spent on a cowardly jerk. I'd also consider writing a few letters to his or her sponsor. After all, he/she gets the stuff for free - I'm the one that buys the stuff.

[foxhavenfarm]

I like the idea of a wine and cheese XC course. You could stop at points and try a glass of wine with paired cheeses. Then ride to the next and it would be a bolder cheese and at the finish there would be a nice cabernet with a maytag blue cheese.

And hey- if you can't rate your horse, you'll miss the lovely Pinot after the water jump, before the bounce complex. So its kind of a benefit to stay in control.

Love that idea...lets start a new type of HT with this purpose! What fun would that be!!!

[CheeseWithYourWhine?]

I find it amusing that many of you seem to think I am claiming to be an ULR. I am just a smurf, but I am a smurf who knows enough to know their limits. I don't tell my plumber what size wrench to use. I don't tell the local brain surgeon where to cut. I don't tell car companies that they cars should run on water and get 500mpg and I don't go online and bitch and gripe about cross country courses that I will never ride but once saw a photo of on the internet.

People often divide learning a skill into four phases.

You start on the outside with unconscious incompetence. You don't have the skill, and you don't know enough to know what the skill needed is. Watching experts do it easily you assume it is easy.

The next stage is conscious incompetence. You consciously know what skills you need to acquire to do something, and why people who are good at it can do things you can't.

The third stage is conscious competence. You have acquired the skills you need and can call upon them when needed.

True experts sometimes reach the fourth stage of unconscious competence. They have been doing something for so long that it just comes naturally to them. They do not have to think about it, and may not remember why it was once hard.

While some people on these threads have some really valuable ideas and knowledge to share, they are being drowned out by an ever louder chorus of "me too", "me too", "CMP is the antichrist". Most commenters are very much in the unconscious incompetence phase of learning about course design.

[TampaBayEquine]

[QUOTE=CheeseWithYourWhine?;3118852]I find it amusing that many of you seem to think I am claiming to be an ULR. I am just a smurf, but I am a smurf who knows enough to know their limits. I don't tell my plumber what size wrench to use. I don't tell the local brain surgeon where to cut. I don't tell car companies that they cars should run on water and get 500mpg and I don't go online and bitch and gripe about cross country courses that I will never ride but once saw a photo of on the internet.



So instead you go online anonymously and you "bitch and gripe" at people on this board and tell them what to do. Clearly an excellent use of your time.

[magnolia73]

See- fixing my toilet does not affect the wellbeing of an animal. I see horses getting hurt. Dying. And it being dismissed as chance.... when the reality is, we have indeed changed some conditions and changed the exertion they face on courses (well, some courses). I don't particularly need to run a **** course to see horses accelerating and decelerating and vs cruising over fences. I can APPLY my experiences in other activities to create a valid question.... that I don't know- it might be nice to get an answer to. Because I think those high up are don't want to look.

I could give a shit if riders get hurt- well, I care- but frankly.... my concern lies with the horse and eventing seems to be traveling down the path of other sports where entertainment and money come at the expense of the animal. That's great if ULR's fancy more demanding courses- just don't break so many horses in the process and I'll gladly shut up and go back to my knitting.

[asterix]

CW, if what you wanted was a thoughtful discussion of a difficult issue (one could frame it as the gap between the needs/motivations/aspirations of an ULR and a LLR, for example -- we do struggle with this issue in our sport, obviously), this might have been a smashing way to start a thread.

Too bad you chose your original method. There are a lot of fine people here and elsewhere who do very much respect the skill and work of the upper level riders, but who, as people with skills and work of their own, think carefully about our sport when it appears to be struggling. Shame on you for using your evident wit and intellect to insult them.

[RAyers]

True experts sometimes reach the fourth stage of unconscious competence. They have been doing something for so long that it just comes naturally to them. They do not have to think about it, and may not remember why it was once hard.

While you may use that as an excuse to remain ignorant, I choose to point out that many times "unconscious competence" is dangerous because you forget why things are hard and how people learn. That is why quite a few upper level riders are horrible teachers. In my case, I am so used to designing explosive reaction systems that I forget my students don't have the inuitive feel I do. So, sometimes I set them up to have a reaction go up in thier face (of course being part of the SAFETY committee I make sure my students are well protected).

I know I am not a good trainer in the horses. My long-time trainer and friend, Dion Dana told me that. I make horses only very good riders can ride because I make horses that only I can ride (hence why I can never sell my horses). I can get a horse from Training to I and A but I can't make a horse that my mom can ride. By recognizing my INCOMPETENCE, I can use that as a strength to be a BETTER expert, unlike some of those who you are defending.

So, I see you as copping out and giving up responsibility for the sport by saying, "I'm not worthy."

Reed

[subk]

I am just a smurf, but I am a smurf who knows enough to know their limits.
Well you may know your limits, but don't assume you know mine, as you obviously don't know that "Smurf" should be capitalized.

[FairWeather]

I don't tell the local brain surgeon where to cut

But wouldn't you say something if he started cutting into your groin instead of your head?

Wait, I repeat myself.

[FairWeather]

and I don't go online and bitch and gripe about cross country courses that I will never ride but once saw a photo of on the internet.
No you don't, you just get online and insult legions of people who support your cowardly butt in some way or another.

[justhanginon]

Well you may know your limits, but don't assume you know mine, as you obviously don't know that "Smurf" should be capitalized.

:) lol !!! If you are just a Smurf, then why the alter ? A lowly Smurf really wouldn't need to hide his/her identity unless, of course, you were say... Papa Smurf.

[asterix]

sneaky snoopy!

as much as it pains me to leave this cheese wreck, I am going to ride.

[CheeseWithYourWhine?]

:) lol !!! If you are just a Smurf, then why the alter ? A lowly Smurf really wouldn't need to hide his/her identity unless, of course, you were say... Papa Smurf.

Because if I were posting under my main name, I would feel compelled to be polite. I would have had to hide my assumption that most of the people crying the loudest have the least knowledge. I could have posted under my own name and said this:

I found it interesting that the ULRs in the live chat seemed happy with modern courses and implied that short format technical courses injure fewer horses than the conditioning regime required for long format.

I know that Bruce Davidson expressed some concerns on the USEA site, but I wonder if in contrast to the vocal majority here if ULRs are mostly happy with the state of course design. I guess most posters here are LLRs or non-riders as most of the pros don't have much spare time to sit at a computer.

How important is it that LLRs like *** courses? Most of us will never ride one. All *** courses look terrifying to me. That is the way it is supposed to work. Any sane person looks at a 5' picnic table and prefers to walk around it.

*** courses are built to see which professional riders can do them with the safety and consistency to go on to **** and represent our country.

There will be no wedges of cheese on my next course. There might be one skinny. There might be one related line. If the *** courses are appropriately testing *** riders, does it really matter if I like them?

I look forward to your considered, well articulated thoughts on the matter.

... but that would have been boring and gotten ignored in the middle of a mob baying for CMP blood. I think the first version is more entertaining, even if it does not really add to the number of constructive well thought out posts on the topic.

[pinkngreen]

I find it amusing that many of you seem to think I am claiming to be an ULR. I am just a smurf, but I am a smurf who knows enough to know their limits.It is sad that you think so little of yourself that you follow leaders blindly.

There are many things in this world that I may not be able to design but I can analyze many things and come up with my own conclusion on the usefulness of many things.

I'll admit I like some of the themed jumps but it's starting to get out of control. I think the cheese wedges wouldn't have been so bad had there not been mice sticking out of them. Decorating around jumps is nice and makes them fun, but I'd love to seeing jumps that look like they just happened to be made of resources found in the feild the jump is in.

[YRAP Mom]

Did you ride the course at Red Hills or work the event? Just curious.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I think people are a bit too focused on Red Hills.....to me Red Hills was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I wasn't there and don't have an opinion on its course....but that doesn't mean I haven't taken note of the trend in CD over the past years and strongly disliked the direction this sport has taken.

I was dismayed walking the course at Fair Hill last year and even more dismayed watching the riding. I may not be the best rider in the world, but I'm educated enough to know good riding and a nicely flowing course....and I'm seeing less and less of that each year.

I feel we have no direction right now....why is there this absured feelilng that xc needs to be made harder and harder? What is xc supposed to be testing now? Once it was the test of stamina and bravery of the horse and rider (stadium was to test the accuracy)....right now, on many of these courses...I couldn't tell you what the test was supposed to be.

I think that the out cry has been building....and now people have spoken. It will be interesting to see if the USEA is able to bring back some direction. I fear if we do not....others out side our sport will and that will be the end of eventing.


Wine and Cheese----I know I do not agree with your methods or insults...but you did stir the pot even more so perhaps some good will come out of it.

[sunnycher]

Well, since we are quoting poetry, how about this one?

YOU’RE THE TOP
Anonymous

You’re the top!
You’re Miss Pinkham’s tonic.
You’re the top!
You’re a high colonic.
You’re the burning heat of a bridal suite in use.
You’re the breasts of Venus
You’re King Kong’s penis,
You’re self-abuse.
You’re an arch
In the Rome collection.
You’re the starch
In a groom’s erection.
I’m a eunuch who
Has just been through an op,
But if, Baby, I’m the bottom
You’re the top.


I'm an overweight, middle-aged housewife with 3 grown kids and 5 grandbabies, who during my so called "prime" couldn't spare the time or $$ to compete, or even own my own horse again until I turned 40. I worked 4 hours a week for my lessons. I worked as a trail guide (with kiddies in tow) so I could be on/around the one passion in my life (other than family). Worked for trainers who put me on everything rank in the barn. Sold horse vitamins as an excuse to stop by farms where their beautiful horses stood in the pastures.

I even (gasp) lied a couple of times and answered 'horsey for sale' ads, so I could ride. HOW DARE you, you ignorant twit, ever diss someone's true love because you never had to eek or scratch a day in your sad, small little life.

I'm off to ride my 'should be shot' wonder mare, who carts my fat a$$ around and go visit my baby who is off to the trainer. The sun is shining and it's a GLORIOUS spring day!

Gina

[NeverTime]

I must be in the minority, but I think W&C is making some perfectly valid points, and in a humorous way (at least to those who don't take themselves too seriously). It would be nice if people only shared INFORMED opinions, but many of us also share our distinctly UN-informed opinions on this BB, with no meter or warning flag to let other readers know who is speaking with any inkling of knowledge on the subject.

I'm not sure why what s/he us saying is any more insulting that what everybody else posts here -- it's just aimed in the opposite direction. (And, IMHO, it rather accurately describes the BB mob mentality.)

We regularly castigate ULRs (certainly Darren was a prime target before his accident), coaches and even each other on this BB from behind our little veils of anonymity -- it seems like the height of hypocrisy to then say this person shouldn't be insulting LLRs on their geriatric horses (or whatever the phrase was). I fail to see the difference.

As far as the basic topic -- UL course design -- I don't think W&C ever said people on these BBs don't have a right to share their opinions. S/he simply said those opinions mean zilch to the people actually riding those courses. Is that seriously an insulting -- or even a surprising -- comment? Walking around the Rolex course, I have PLENTY of opinions about those fences -- but somehow I doubt Bruce or Phillip or Karen or anyone else would pay my opinions any heed during their own course walk!:cool:

[Debbie]

Wow, what an a$$hat, you chose NOT to be constructive. Way to go.

I've been entertained on this thread, but certainly not by the OP at least not since the first post with it's drama llama hyberbolic A$$umptions about the majority of this community.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

As far as the basic topic -- UL course design -- I don't think W&C ever said people on these BBs don't have a right to share their opinions. S/he simply said those opinions mean zilch to the people actually riding those courses. Is that seriously an insulting -- or even a surprising -- comment? Walking around the Rolex course, I have PLENTY of opinions about those fences -- but somehow I doubt Bruce or Phillip or Karen or anyone else would pay my opinions any heed during their own course walk!:cool:

I also agree that Wine and Cheese may have some vaild points....but the negative tone was a bit much in the OPs post.

[GB Trail Rider]

CW or whatever he/she wants to anonymously call themselves is really getting their jollies out of this thread. So let's follow our own rules and not continue to feed the Troll.

[NeverTime]

BFNE, as always, I respect you immensely. I *did* think it was more funny than insulting, though. You & me and our wiggly housewife thighs kicking around BN on our geriatric slaughter nags, or whatever the phrase was. Unfortunately, I do feel that way -- and I imagine I may look that way too -- many days! :lol:

[pinkngreen]

We regularly castigate ULRs (certainly Darren was a prime target before his accident), coaches and even each other on this BB from behind our little veils of anonymity -- it seems like the height of hypocrisy to then say this person shouldn't be insulting LLRs on their geriatric horses (or whatever the phrase was). I fail to see the difference.
We don't all do this because I never have done so on this forum. So please don't lump us all into one category like the OP did.

S/he simply said those opinions mean zilch to the people actually riding those courses. Is that seriously an insulting -- or even a surprising -- comment? Walking around the Rolex course, I have PLENTY of opinions about those fences -- but somehow I doubt Bruce or Phillip or Karen or anyone else would pay my opinions any heed during their own course walkI may not be riding these courses right now but I do dream of getting back to prelim, maybe more, one day. I'm sure my opinion during a course walk doesn't mean much to many much less Karen, Bruce, or Phillip. But my opinion should count when it comes to the direction my beloved sport is going, a sport I have loved for 25 years. I've never felt we needed to make our sport more spectator friendly and more marketable to Joe Blow American. I love and will continue to compete in this sport whether I'm getting to compete at beautiful courses or grass roots do it on shoe string budget courses. If we lose sponors and don't get all these big beautiful courses any more we will still find a way to participate in a sport we love.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

BFNE, as always, I respect you immensely. I *did* think it was more funny than insulting, though. You & me and our wiggly housewife thighs kicking around BN on our geriatric slaughter nags, or whatever the phrase was. Unfortunately, I do feel that way -- and I imagine I may look that way too -- many days! :lol:


You don't look that way at all...but I'm a bit sensitive about my wiggly thighs so that might be my issue!

[rabicon]

Nevertime, if thats you in the photo and your horse, I'd say you could help me out anyday and I'd listen ;) You don't look like what you said and even if you did who cares your riding is good.:D

[missamandarose]

now that i have wiped all the tears from my eyes and caught my breath...

Cheesey Whiner... try not to be such a pill when you attempt to make your valid points. I dont post much, but I read a lot. I thought your post was going to be funny when I first opened it... I was so disappointed.

Gry2Yng... you voiced the concern I have... "tickle down eventing". Hell no I'll never go advanced, but I dont want my goal of a T3D taken away from be b/c it HAS to be made harder to make the upper levels more competitive.

LisaB... Bravo. On all counts. You deserve a medal of honor.

Denny & Reed... like I said... I dont post much but I read a lot... and I love y'all.

AND...I will buy a Cheese Saves Lives t-shirt!! Just point me in the right direction... any chance we can get a fake splatter of red wine on there to really complete the look? I saw a clever tshirt that had splotches all over in a catalog somewhere and liked it.

Now what ever will I do with the rest of my day?! Oh! Right... sit on my chaise and eat bonbons while watching Oprah!

[RAyers]

I absolutely see your point, however, if you look at the title of the thread and combined with the OP statments, they imply anybody who has not ridden at the top levels is only a "wannabe" and I find that insulting.

While a ULR may not care about a particular opinion about a course, etc. they can not dismiss that fact that a LLR may actually have more understanding in a given situation (or even in the overall picture) than them. My example is that I teach continuing medical education classes to orthopedic surgeons but I can assure you every one of those guys has more experience in some aspect of bone repair than I do. Thus, I must listen to them and take their counsel even thouhg I am the "expert."

There is a reason safety committees, accident investigations, etc. include not just experts, but "common folk" as they many times have better insight to a topic (ala denny's lumberjack post).

To me, that is where the humor left and W&C showed amazing ignorance.

Reed

I must be in the minority, but I think W&C is making some perfectly valid points, and in a humorous way (at least to those who don't take themselves too seriously). It would be nice if people only shared INFORMED opinions, but many of us also share our distinctly UN-informed opinions on this BB, with no meter or warning flag to let other readers know who is speaking with any inkling of knowledge on the subject.

I'm not sure why what s/he us saying is any more insulting that what everybody else posts here -- it's just aimed in the opposite direction. (And, IMHO, it rather accurately describes the BB mob mentality.)

We regularly castigate ULRs (certainly Darren was a prime target before his accident), coaches and even each other on this BB from behind our little veils of anonymity -- it seems like the height of hypocrisy to then say this person shouldn't be insulting LLRs on their geriatric horses (or whatever the phrase was). I fail to see the difference.

As far as the basic topic -- UL course design -- I don't think W&C ever said people on these BBs don't have a right to share their opinions. S/he simply said those opinions mean zilch to the people actually riding those courses. Is that seriously an insulting -- or even a surprising -- comment? Walking around the Rolex course, I have PLENTY of opinions about those fences -- but somehow I doubt Bruce or Phillip or Karen or anyone else would pay my opinions any heed during their own course walk!:cool:

[subk]

I must be in the minority, but I think W&C is making some perfectly valid points,
I appreciate what you're trying to say, but CW's points are only valid if this BB was only made up of uninformed LL riders. It is NOT. We have a large handful of vocal riders that have not just ridden at Preliminary, but above it as well. We have TDs, judges, trainers USEA officials, organizers and Olympians here and not just here this week but here regularly! This BB is so much more educated and informed than the assumption...

[RunForIt]

originally posted by - thank you - subk

I appreciate what you're trying to say, but CW's points are only valid if this BB was only made up of uninformed LL riders. It is NOT. We have a large handful of vocal riders that have not just ridden at Preliminary, but above it as well. We have TDs, judges, trainers USEA officials, organizers and Olympians here and not just here this week but here regularly! This BB is so much more educated and informed than the assumption...

I take the liberty of adding on ...and sign their names when the time merits the action. That takes a measure of intestinal fortitude - show yours, OP.

[TB or not TB?]

CW - you're not known as Thomas in another life, are you? :lol:

[BarbB]

BFNE, as always, I respect you immensely. I *did* think it was more funny than insulting, though. You & me and our wiggly housewife thighs kicking around BN on our geriatric slaughter nags, or whatever the phrase was. Unfortunately, I do feel that way -- and I imagine I may look that way too -- many days! :lol:

I thought it started out funny too, then as it went on I realized that it was apparently meant to be very insulting. It didn't really achieve 'very insulting'....but the humor died.

[RunForIt]

CW - you're not known as Thomas in another life, are you? :lol:

smart deduction

[deltawave]

The problem with labeling someone a "wannabe" is that you are making an assumption that they actually . . . wanna be something. In my case, I don't "wannabe" an ULR at all, ever, under any circumstances and especially with the sport in its current state of affairs.

[snoopy]

The problem with labeling someone a "wannabe" is that you are making an assumption that they actually . . . wanna be something. In my case, I don't "wannabe" an ULR at all, ever, under any circumstances and especially with the sport in its current state of affairs.


Yes the OP has seemed to have lost sight that these issues are about EVERY level in the sport. Again, losing sight of the WHOLE picture.

[melodiousaphony]

As far as the basic topic -- UL course design -- I don't think W&C ever said people on these BBs don't have a right to share their opinions. S/he simply said those opinions mean zilch to the people actually riding those courses. Is that seriously an insulting -- or even a surprising -- comment? Walking around the Rolex course, I have PLENTY of opinions about those fences -- but somehow I doubt Bruce or Phillip or Karen or anyone else would pay my opinions any heed during their own course walk!:cool:

What the original post also implied to me is that people who aren't riding at the upper levels cannot have an educated opinion with respect to the upper level courses.
Am I wrong in thinking that not all course designers are, or ever were, riders or competitors up to and above the level for which they are designing?
Seems like the two could be independent of each other (riding & designing), though I could see how either skill could positively influence the propensity of the other if both were perused by the same individual. It comes down to being able to draw experiences from one field and applying them to another. Course design fascinates me, though I have a less then close to comprehensive background in it, as the philosophies behind design and understanding those philosophies can positively effect the way one rides a course.

Vaguely on topic question: Does anyone test ride the courses after their construction?
Pardon me if the question seems ignorant, but how something rides isn't always how something measures out, a concept that extends beyond the equestrian. In organic chemistry, we are constantly reminded that our answers are based on experimental data, thus exceptions occur because of factors of which we are unaware. *If* a course designer did ride at the level for which he is designing, wouldn't it be useful if said course were ridden as constructed for competition before hand, perhaps by the designer (if able) or at least under his observation (hypothetically, ignoring logistical issues)?

I'd also like to point out that the system of learning reflexes an article from Eventing, January/February 2008 by Captain Mark Phillips, who is quoting Eric Smiley. I just think that with so very many models of learning available, it's funny this particular one was used. Funny, not necessarily evidence of anything, but it sure smacked me in the face with a sense of odd familiarity.

[BarbB]

Vaguely on topic question: Does anyone test ride the courses after their construction?


I used to have some very old tapes of Badminton where the 'test ride' was part of the explanation of the course. There was always a little bio of the horse and rider doing the test ride.
Since, other than the Olympics, that was the first eventing I ever saw, I thought that was the norm.
I guess that either it was done away with or it was just part of the show for a 4*.
:confused:

[pwynnnorman]

IMO, while the OP makes some interesting, debatable points (in a kinder climate than the one he/she created), they are still weak points because reality is irrelevant here. PERCEPTION is what can threaten a sport. Ignorant housewives or angry legislators--it doesn't matter who or what their level of education within or beyond the sport. The sport cannot educate the masses. It can only present itself to them and hope they perceive something worth supporting.

[lstevenson]

CW - you're not known as Thomas in another life, are you? :lol:


Nah, Thomas wouldn't have to use an alter to be rude and obnoxious. ;)

[Dr. Doolittle]

Nah, Thomas wouldn't have to use an alter to be rude and obnoxious. ;)


Oh, my...

:lol:

(I've always wanted to say this, but shied away from it...)

[Snapdragon]

I agree, Thomas would say what he thinks without an alter. Also, those who were alluding to one UL rider as a possibility, that wasn't very nice. Whatever your personal feelings are about a particular person, it should be left off of these discussions.

[TeddyRocks]

Well, I will cheerfully acknowledge that I am not a gifted rider (though not a housewife, ever); but if you diss my horse, who is both saintly and reasonably athletic, that's when I have to ask you outside. :no:

Ditto:yes:

[carrickfergus]

How stupidly foolish of you. Hopefully you realize that the backbone of the eventing industry is made up of mostly non-professional non-upper level women who love horses and support the sport monetarily and through the donation of their time. Without us lower level folk there wouldn't be any upper level riders. Who buys the horses for the upper level riders? Who works tirelessly to pay for their horses training and showing with the upper level riders? Who pays for the vet care/farrier care? Who breeds them? Who puts on the events for the upper level riders to shine? I'm sure this is one isolated opinion of one upper level rider (if you are upper level-who knows you've remained anonymous.) But as for me I will happily continue to breed my stellar Irish horses whether my horse be bought by a housewife or a professional and continue to be in awe of the incredible horse whether he be the backyard pony or the Olympic athlete. By the way, how much of a real horseman/woman? are you to be so lacking in knowledge to pan the fabulous worth his weight in gold packer who can safely carry his rider around a course whether it be a x-rail or a 6 foot drop. There are levels to every sport and for a participant in a sport to be so rude to people at another level is completely lacking in sportsmanship.

[punk_pony]

OK- I've been reading this on and off for a while now, and I have to chime in... As a (re)aspiring upper level rider (so I haven't gone advanced in 7 yrs, and I've never done a short format three-day), as well as a professional, I have to say that my business is driven by all of you who are middle aged adult ammies, and your kids. I appreciate the heck out of you... Not only do you allow me to do what I love for a living, but you keep me in perspective- left to my own devices I would easily recite the results from the last competition, as well as who had great run-up events to Rolex, but would be fairly oblivious to the goings on in the real world, so thank you for not letting me crawl into my little eventing hole where all I'm worried about is the fact that I have to hold horses for the farrier tomorrow and I have 8 horses to ride and Pony Club to teach, or that my horse tried her hardest to buck me off in the stadium warmup at Galway... There are children starving in Africa, for crying out loud... Now, if you come to a lesson with some funky idea gleaned off of a random post on an internet forum about the kind of bit you should be using for stadium- well, my job is to educate you in the best way I know how. If riding could be learned out of a book or off the internet, lots of us trainers would be out of a job. If your goal is to compete well at novice, then my job is to get you there. Is it always easy? No. When you are frustrated, I'm frustrated- not with you, but with my lack of ability to communicate with you. I get nervous when you go out XC (really nervous if you have been struggling with something, or are worried about a fence). I get as much joy from seeing you succeed as from succeeding myself (maybe more). I hope I speak for a lot of professionals when I say that I do what I do because I love to share what I love.

[HappyHoppingHaffy]

Okay, wannabees (did I spell that right?)...lets all ban together and not rejoin the USEA and USEF next year. I'm sick of paying these idiots paychecks (even if they can ride).
Learned helplessness; I'm done...time for a haircut or I'm outta here. I've got lots and lots of other things I can spend my money on

Victoria Stewart, Boston, MA
Pony Club "B" obtainee at the age of 17 (for props! ;))

[Sannois]

Okay, wannabees (did I spell that right?)...lets all ban together and not rejoin the USEA and USEF next year. I'm sick of paying these idiots paychecks (even if they can ride).
Learned helplessness; I'm done...time for a haircut or I'm outta here. I've got lots and lots of other things I can spend my money on

Victoria Stewart, Boston, MA
Pony Club "B" obtainee at the age of 17 (for props! ;))

Is what I have always believed will make a difference!
I am not competing anymore but if I was happy with the USEA I would still be paying the near 100 dollars membership fee.
Maybe if there was alot less money coming in we would not be so insignificant.
I am appauled if the originator of this thread really is an upper level rider under an alter! :eek::no:

[eventer_mi]

OK, I swore I wouldn't do this, as my post will probably get buried anyway, but

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH BEING A LOWER LEVEL RIDER? And I mean truly lower level, as in Training is probably the highest I ever want to achieve. I'm not a housewife - I'm a schoolteacher - and I don't have fancy horses. That doesn't mean that I'm not serious about what I do, or want to have fun. There seems to be this stigma that if you are a LLR, then you should, at the very LEAST, have Olympic dreams. Who says? What if all I ever want to do is gallop my way around a Novice course? What if I don't even want to aim that high - what is my goal is to ride BN for the rest of my life? So what? It's my entry fee and my lesson money, not yours. I earned it, I choose when and how to spend it, and if I just happen to want to stay a "lowly lower level rider", it's my decision. Not yours. Some people, and not just CMP, seem to be slightly ashamed that they're not riding at Prelim and above. I used to be one, and used to defend my decision not to by saying that my previously broken leg can't be broken again, or I will never walk (and that's true). Now, I feel that I shouldn't even have to do that. I choose to remain a LLR.

We ALL started off over crossrails - well, maybe not YOU, Captain, but the rest of us human beings did. I don't care if you are an ULR or a LLR - we all pay our taxes, we all pay our dues. If you want to jump teddy bears and Whack-A-Moles, go for it. Do whatever makes you happy, but don't take away the pride the rest of us feel for what we do.

[Hannahsmom]

Okay, wannabees (did I spell that right?)...lets all ban together and not rejoin the USEA and USEF next year. I'm sick of paying these idiots paychecks (even if they can ride).
Learned helplessness; I'm done...time for a haircut or I'm outta here. I've got lots and lots of other things I can spend my money on

Yes, spend your money wisely, particularly in these times, but don't you think it's worth it to give the USEA a chance to implement some of these things and to help them? Isn't now our chance to prove that the USEA 'is us'? For right now, it seems to me that the USEA hears what people are saying and trying to iron some things out. Not everything will be perfect the first time, but I do at least read about some new energy and focus. Now I'd have to agree with you about the USEF. :lol:

[magnolia73]

I'm a schoolteacher

:)

Far easier to take a horse 'round Rolex than face a classroom of 20 kids these days. Thanks for taking on that important job. You earn the right to have FUN riding and be taken seriously and respected.

[Equus34]

I've been watching this post and keeping quiet but now I feel I have to say something. I am proud to say that not only am I one of those middle aged house wives, but I coach several other middle aged house wives and help them live their dream of getting out and Eventing.

I am very, very, proud of every middle aged house wife that works to fulfil their dream. Most had to put their dreams on the back burner for years due to college, careers, kids, and family. Now they have the time to finally get out there and try the wonderful sport that is Eventing. Let them be, and let them do it. What are you worried that they may one day surpass you Whine?

Middle aged house wives unite. Don't let the words of some bitter fool rain on your parade. If Eventing is something you have always wanted to do, then don't let the posting of a bitter obviously insecure person who feels you are whinning, derail your dream. Just go do it. Because "YOU ALL ROCK!!!"

[deltawave]

Now see, I think the USEA is on our side and needs our support more than ever. The USET? Maybe not so much. But I'm not sure on that one, so I'll stay a member of the USEF *and* the USEA for now.

[Sannois]

OK, I swore I wouldn't do this, as my post will probably get buried anyway, but

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH BEING A LOWER LEVEL RIDER? And I mean truly lower level, as in Training is probably the highest I ever want to achieve. I'm not a housewife - I'm a schoolteacher - and I don't have fancy horses. That doesn't mean that I'm not serious about what I do, or want to have fun. There seems to be this stigma that if you are a LLR, then you should, at the very LEAST, have Olympic dreams. Who says? What if all I ever want to do is gallop my way around a Novice course? What if I don't even want to aim that high - what is my goal is to ride BN for the rest of my life? So what? It's my entry fee and my lesson money, not yours. I earned it, I choose when and how to spend it, and if I just happen to want to stay a "lowly lower level rider", it's my decision. Not yours. Some people, and not just CMP, seem to be slightly ashamed that they're not riding at Prelim and above. I used to be one, and used to defend my decision not to by saying that my previously broken leg can't be broken again, or I will never walk (and that's true). Now, I feel that I shouldn't even have to do that. I choose to remain a LLR.

We ALL started off over crossrails - well, maybe not YOU, Captain, but the rest of us human beings did. I don't care if you are an ULR or a LLR - we all pay our taxes, we all pay our dues. If you want to jump teddy bears and Whack-A-Moles, go for it. Do whatever makes you happy, but don't take away the pride the rest of us feel for what we do.
Sister!:yes:

[Sannois]

The OP is probably no one at all, because I would like to think that any upper level rider of today with a name would never stoop so low and be so rude and just plain unfriendly and a snob.
MAybe I am living in a fantasy world! :confused: Now if they had any conviction they would attach their REAL name to the post and not hide behind an alter!:mad:

[throwurheart]

Reading through the posts of the ULR discussion I couldn't help get the feeling that the ULR were too laissez-faire and a bit too patronizing. "I like it" "It won't happen to me" "I wouldn't change a thing"


Reading through the ULR chat I had a vision of all of them standing in neat rows, like a chorus, singing the same tune.

Behind them were a faceless people holding dressage whips, tapping the ULR ankles in rhythm with the music.

You will now piaffe in unison.

[justhanginon]

The OP is probably no one at all, because I would like to think that any upper level rider of today with a name would never stoop so low and be so rude and just plain unfriendly and a snob.
MAybe I am living in a fantasy world! :confused: Now if they had any conviction they would attach their REAL name to the post and not hide behind an alter!:mad:

Papa Smurf, Papa Smurf !!!! (and interestingly enough he seems to have disappeared)

[CookiePony]

Now see, I think the USEA is on our side and needs our support more than ever.

Exactly. It is a long, erroneous leap from our one disgruntled/inane OP to the USEA. And as far as I know, the only folks on the USEA payroll are about 20 administrative staff members in Leesburg, VA.

[throwurheart]

Exactly. It is a long, erroneous leap from our one disgruntled/inane OP to the USEA. And as far as I know, the only folks on the USEA payroll are about 20 administrative staff members in Leesburg, VA.

Allow me to "third" this. I have many misgivings about the USEF (with reason to), but USEA "powers that be" and workers are, by and large, a VERY good group of people who deserve our respect and support.

[J Swan]

The OP is probably no one at all, because I would like to think that any upper level rider of today with a name would never stoop so low and be so rude and just plain unfriendly and a snob.
MAybe I am living in a fantasy world! :confused: Now if they had any conviction they would attach their REAL name to the post and not hide behind an alter!:mad:

I think the OP is some teenager who needs to have his/her computer taken away, tied to a chair with his/her eyelids propped open, and forced to watch endless reruns of Little House on the Prairie.

A stint in the military would probably take her down a peg or two and knock some sense into her- though I doubt she'd make it past the 1st day of Basic without crying for her Mommy.

[Mozart]

[quote=J Swan;3121336], tied to a chair with his/her eyelids propped open, and forced to watch endless reruns of Little House on the Prairie.

quote]


I think that is contrary to the Geneva Convention....

[KBG Eventer]

and forced to watch endless reruns of Little House on the Prairie.




I am teenager, and I have to admit that I kinda sorta like Little House on the Prairie! :lol: Although it would put me to sleep after awhile.

[AlexMakowski]

Wow. This thread is short of amazing. I left the hunter world because i was so fed up with politics and the crowd in general. If this had been posted on the H/J forum, I imagine the response would have turned heads, instead you have all turned it into a civil discussion of cheese. THANK YOU. I was starting to question why I joined this crew. Now I know. haha.

LisaB - I was awaiting your response, if there were a favorites list you would be on it. I look foward to meeting you some day!

I find it interesting that none of the mothers have spoken up on a different topic and that is the fact that you ultimately control the fate of your child's future which may or may not include eventing. It would do posters like the OP good to understand that middle aged housewives could bring the younger/promising generation of up and coming riders to a stop by not allowing children to event. Then what are we left with? A group of ULR's that age and retire and no one to fill their spots?

But back to the topic of interest
I will not be at Rolex but I will be at Fair Hill the weekend of the 20th, its my birthday! I would love a cheese shirt for this occasion, so please PM me if I could buy one!

THANKS AGAIN! Keep up the good work and spirits, I mean spirit.

[annikak]

Well, Whinewithcheese, I kinda liked your (other) alter post.

Yeah, they look scary- I was able to walk Rolex with a rider 2 years ago- interesting to walk it as if I were riding it, rather then just ooh and ahhh'ing. That them jumps are big! And, no, my middleaged rear end with current muffintop probably won't ever get around it. I do think my 1K CANTER horse could, however...in all honesty. Really. Just not with my MARE (Ooohh...a new one...Middle Aged Rear End! MARE!) on his back.
(No one go there, please...!:cool:)

That being said, a lot of those big courses don't really scare me that much. But then, as you said, I am not jumping them, just dreaming about it in my Barbie Barn. But I still pay my entry fees, and still take lessons when I am somewhere near someone that teaches, and I still support the sport.

I still am not sure about that mouse, however...that looked a bit silly to me.

I think the discussion is valid, and perhaps you are right- the nice post might have gotten lost.

[eventer_mi]

53 and others had a GREAT idea, so I whipped up something in Flash for a T-shirt and logo design. We're "Smurfs", so it's blue, and it can be done any ole way you want. Check it out:

logo: http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2343462340053515467sRDedd
front of T: http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2313646820053515467ZLiEji
backof T: http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2860324210053515467ZiddUg

If anybody is seriously interested in these, I can "clean up" the logo and email it to you, so you can create your own T-shirt, tank, etc.

Smurfs of the World, UNITE! :winkgrin:

[TB or not TB?]

53 and others had a GREAT idea, so I whipped up something in Flash for a T-shirt and logo design. We're "Smurfs", so it's blue, and it can be done any ole way you want. Check it out:

logo: http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2343462340053515467sRDedd
front of T: http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2313646820053515467ZLiEji
backof T: http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2860324210053515467ZiddUg

If anybody is seriously interested in these, I can "clean up" the logo and email it to you, so you can create your own T-shirt, tank, etc.

Smurfs of the World, UNITE! :winkgrin:

Man I LOVE eventers. :D

[gully's pilot]

I'm in! Do you want me to set it up on Cafe Press, or should we let everyone do it themselves?

[CheeseWithYourWhine?]

If anybody is seriously interested in these, I can "clean up" the logo and email it to you, so you can create your own T-shirt, tank, etc.

I'd get one and wear it to the Rolex get together ... but I am allergic to pitchforks and lynch mobs.

[flyingchange]

oh, POOR WHINE and cheese!!! Fraidy Cat of coming out and playing with the masses???

You live in a very sad and lonely world, don't you.

[RunForIt]

I'd get one and wear it to the Rolex get together ... but I am allergic to pitchforks and lynch mobs.

hmmm...no venom, is this more dangerous, or a clue to your disgusting alter?