World Cup '08!

[draftxfan]

The GP and GPF are scheduled to be broadcast *live* here

http://www.indoorbrabant.com/cms/page.php?id=media

this Thursday, March 27, at 7:00 p.m. Dutch time ( = 2:00 p.m. EST)

and this Saturday, March 29, at 2:00 p.m. ( = 9:00 a.m. EST)

Here's the roster:

Isabell Weth (GER) – Warum Nicht
Anky van Grunsven (NED) – Salinero
Jan Brink (SWE) – Björsells Briar
Anders Dahl (DEN) – Afrikka
Natalie zu Sayn-Wittgenstein (DEN) – Digby
Kyra Kyrklund (FIN) – Max
Andreas Helgstrand (DEN) – Gredstedsgards Casmir
Laurens van Lieren (NED) – Hexagon’s Ollright
Jeroen Devroe (BEL) – Paganini
Rozzie Ryan (AUS) – Donna Carrera
Courtney King (USA) – Idocus
Jane Hannigan (USA) – Maksymilian
Imke Schellekens-Bartels (NED) – Sunrise
Louise Nathhorst (SWE) – Isidor
Michal Rapcewicz (POL) – Randon
Reserve: Evi Strasser (CAN) – Quantum Tyme

[ASB Stars]

A dear friend of mine flew out today to be there. She has a camera. Now, will she USE it?:lol:

[Bogey2]

thanks draftx....and let me know if we can get you to write a story for our local GMO newsletter!;) You did make it there right???
Go Jane and Courtney!

[lizathenag]

The starting order for the World Cup is posted and Jane rides second on Thursday (tomorrow) at 7:09pm. Courtney (USA) rides at 8:45pm - these times are in the Netherlands so it is 5 hours ahead of the East Coast - so look for Jane on the video feed at 2:09 EST. Here is the entire starting list: http://www.indoorbrabant.com/cms/page.php?id=uitslagen

The live video feed should be available here:
http://www.indoorbrabant.com/cms/page.php?id=media
If that link doesn't work just try from the link on the bottom right corner of the home page (switch to English on the top right by clicking on the UK flag): http://www.indoorbrabant.com

ps Jane is my cousin! go coz!

[Coreene]

Don't forget, those who want to watch the showjumping on Sunday, that they put their clocks ahead one hour on Sunday at 2 a.m. local time. First time it is in March.

[Coreene]

The GP and GPF are scheduled to be broadcast *live* here

http://www.indoorbrabant.com/cms/page.php?id=media Heads up that this is on already; this link will be on for the entire show and it is FAB.

[Ambrey]

Who's responsible for the live translation? I brought the nachos...

[Coreene]

Helaas, geen tijd. :lol: But I'll probably be able to do some highlights.

[Coreene]

Oh, this is just great. Now it won't show anything. And it's 45 minutes until the WC class starts.

[Bogey2]

I am not getting anything either...waaahh....was there something showing earlier???

[Coreene]

It is back on! :D

[OnCue]

It's not back on for me!!! Mutha....

11:02 - all is well!!!

[Tanyanoel]

It didn;t work for me in Safari but I used Firefox and it's working now. (I am on mac)

[Coreene]

Try it from scratch:

www.indoorbrabant.com (http://www.indoorbrabant.com) and then scroll down to the bottom and click on Live Feed. That might work.

The commentators are gasbags.

[Coreene]

Jane had 67.375%.

[lizathenag]

not working for me!

[Coreene]

Jane's test was good, but challenged in places. A biff with the changes (which I heard from commentators but did not see, I was turned away for a moment), a costly pirouette and he fell out of the last piaffe. But she must have been having a super time and should be so proud to have gone to the finals!

The Polish guy is currently in the lead after three riders.

The commentary during Jane's ride was also about how difficult it is to get to the big shows in the US because of the distances, and how everyone who gets to the WC final from the US should be proud to be there.

[Coreene]

Nathalie had a great round and just pipped Laurens for the lead at the halfway point; both scored over 70%. It's now a break until 15 min before the hour before Courtney goes.

[OnCue]

Coreene, you rock! Guess I should go grab some lunch. lol!

[J-Lu]

I think I'm missing the whole time thing. Is it over? Is it still on break (Are those judges coming back now)? Who has gone? Who is yet to come? Help! :D

ETA: Thanks for posting this! What a fun way to spend an hour at work!!

[Coreene]

Starts again in one minute with Courtney.

[Tanyanoel]

They are finishing up a break, Courtney King is next up, followed by Anders Dahl, Adreas Helgsrtand, Anky, Imke, Isabel, Kyra and then finally Jan Brink

[Coreene]

Courtney currently lying second with 70.125.

[ridgeback]

I liked Courtney's test so much better then Nathalie's.. I missed Jane's how was it?

[Bogey2]

Yay Courtney!!!

[Ambrey]

I had to go to the dr. and came home in the middle of Courtney. Big difference between these two, though.

[Coreene]

I missed Jane's how was it?She had a biff in the twos, a pirouette and fell out of the last piaffe.

[Ambrey]

Wasn't there a rumor that Blue Hors Matinee would be back for WEG, or did I dream that? :lol:

[Coreene]

Wasn't there a rumor that Blue Hors Matinee would be back for WEG, or did I dream that? :lol:I am sure they are praying at the Temple Of Soundness for Matiné, but surely you meant the WC since WEG isn't for two years? Nice horse. Would be nice if she returns.

Edited to say that the horse Andreas rode today is only nine, which was reflected in his ride. Just needs some more miles in the ring.

[Ambrey]

I am sure they are praying at the Temple Of Soundness for Matiné, but surely you meant the WC since WEG isn't for two years? Nice horse. Would be nice if she returns.


Sorry, I had that e-bay thread on the brain ;) WC, and maybe Olympics?

eta: How do you translate "boing boing boing?"

[Coreene]

Anky had a 74.75%. We still have, in this order, Imke, Isabelle, Kyra and Jan.

Salinero looked nice. Interesting wave at the initial halt! :lol:

Edited to say you can tell a lot more people are watching the live feed, since it is not clear sailing.

[ridgeback]

Some of Anky's test I just don't understand the 4 to 5 points higher on certain movements..

[Ambrey]

Some of Anky's test I just don't understand the 4 to 5 points higher on certain movements..

Seems to me like he bucked at least 3 times :confused:.

[Coreene]

Imke 73.458, Isabelle up right now.

[ridgeback]

I think her horse is so wide in front and he's quite restricted through his shoulder.. His extended trot was so high because he can't extend like the last horse... Very interesting to watch... of course JMO

[Ambrey]

Imke 73.458, Isabelle up right now.

Is she really tiny or is that horse just HUGE?

I know, I'm a noob.

[Coreene]

I love Isabelle's horse (gee, a giant chestnut with a star, I wonder why? :lol: ). And in the lead; unless Kyra or Jan have a miracle, she will win the class (but isn't that how it has been for a while, Isabell takes the BP and Anky the kur?).

Anyhow. I am loving the live feed. :yes:

[Whitehedge Farm]

Ya Court!!
I am so mad I missed it! (sitting at the vets!) will there be replays/taped performances anywhere online??

[ridgeback]

Is she really tiny or is that horse just HUGE?

I know, I'm a noob.

I agree with the lead:) I think Isabell deserved to take the lead..I want to see what they scored Anky for her halt at the end but they haven't shown it:(

[Bogey2]

Anyhow. I am loving the live feedme too! we need more of that!:yes:

[Coreene]

Ya Court!!
I am so mad I missed it! (sitting at the vets!) will there be replays/taped performances anywhere online??My guess is that it will wind up on YouTube - don't they all - or Theo might put it on his site when he resurfaces.

Lots of times you can find stuff on filmloop.nl, but I do not know if they post stuff they didn't broadcast themselves.

[ridgeback]

I liked Laurens test a bit more then Courtney's but she was fun to watch.

[Coreene]

I liked Laurens test a bit more then Courtney's but she was fun to watch.Laurens could have ridden a mule and I would have liked it. He is not hard on the eyes at all. :lol:

The commentators love Idocus. They did chapter and verse of the horse's entire history during Courtney's ride, which was very nice.

And may I just point out how much I like Brinks' cream colored breeches as compared to white?

Final results: http://www.indoorbrabant.com/cms/page.php?id=uitslagen

[ridgeback]

Jan needs to go more forward.. His extension was amazing but it didn't really go anywhere if that makes sense...

Oh Laurens is good looking...hmmm do you have any pictures:)

[ridgeback]

Courtney and Jane should be thrilled:)

[J-Lu]

Loved the live feed! I guess now I can go back to work... See ya'll at 9 am Eastern time on Sat...

[freestyle2music]

My guess is that it will wind up on YouTube - don't they all - or Theo might put it on his site when he resurfaces.

Lots of times you can find stuff on filmloop.nl, but I do not know if they post stuff they didn't broadcast themselves.

The moment if can find some free hours I will put everything on-line, but OMG I am workinggggggggggggggggggggggggg 7/24 to get all the music ready for my clients. I am in this business for over 20 years now but never ever had such a busy time. Hope you all mis me ;)

Theo

[Coreene]

The moment if can find some free hours I will put everything on-line, but OMG I am workinggggggggggggggggggggggggg 7/24 to get all the music ready for my clients. I am in this business for over 20 years now but never ever had such a busy time. Hope you all mis me ;)

Theotheo, I love you. And better to be busy than sitting around on your ass with nothing to do! Ik ben in Nederland in April; helaas net niet op tijd for NK Dressuur, maar wel voor NK Jachtpaarden. Groetjes!

[ridgeback]

theo, I love you. And better to be busy than sitting around on your ass with nothing to do! Ik ben in Nederland in April; helaas net niet op tijd for NK Dressuur, maar wel voor NK Jachtpaarden. Groetjes!


HEY HEY come on English please...LOL:lol:

[Coreene]

HEY HEY come on English please...LOL:lol:Ik ben in Nederland in April; helaas net niet op tijd for NK Dressuur, maar wel voor NK Jachtpaarden. Groetjes! means "I will be in Holland in April; alas just too soon for the Dutch National Dressage Championships, but will be there for the Dutch National Foxhunter Championships. Greetings!"

Theo knows that my Dutch spelling and grammar are not always perfect, but for some reason my parents never taught us to write in Dutch, only speak and read.

[Bogey2]

what a great line-up of riders today! Can you imagine it? Jane and Courtney should be very proud of their rides today. I know I am very excited for both of them.

[yaya]

I want to see what they scored Anky for her halt at the end but they haven't shown it:(


Well, neither did she.....show a halt, I mean. (ducking and running)

[Coreene]

Well, neither did she.....show a halt, I mean. (ducking and running)Isabelle and a few others had a rolling stop as well. LOVED Ollright's stops. Jolly nice.

[yaya]

I only got to see Courtney, Dahl, Helgstrand, and Anky.

Loved the "boing, boing, boing" comment on Helgstrand's horse! No translation needed!

[ridgeback]

Isabelle and a few others had a rolling stop as well. LOVED Ollright's stops. Jolly nice.

I think Isabelle's horse did halt even if it was a brief halt..Anky's horse didn't even remotely halt. They both were a joy to watch:) I just happen to like Isabelle's style of riding and I like that her horse doesn't look as tense as Anky's horse.. JMO

[J-Lu]

I agree in that Anky's last halt wasn't remotely a halt. But if there was a score for sidepass steps.... Honestly, though-no immobility at all.

I also really loved...was it Afrikka?'s one-tempis? The angle was coming RIGHT to the camera and the legs were perfectly on two tracks for a number of those uber-straight changes.

[draftxfan]

For those who wondered, I think Anky got a 74 and change(!!) for her last "halt" -- exactly the same score on that movement as Isabelle.

It was a great evening, really wonderful to see crowds like that turn out for dressage. And what a treat to watch the best of the best go! Jane's ride was actually very lovely, better than the final scores suggest -- the only real glitch was the first pirouette, I didn't see anything wrong in the tempis. She looked incredibly confident for someone riding in (I believe) her first truly international competition, and in that sort of company! I blubbered like a babe through the whole thing (but then, it'd been a long day, and I'd gotten into the vino).

I loved Warum Nicht -- so glad he won -- and Helgstrand's young horse is one to watch in the years to come. As the Wise Coreene says, he just needs some mileage (and strength -- he looked less brilliant toward the end of the test).

I still don't have a ticket for tomorrow, so I may well be stuck in my hotel room in 's-Hertogenbosch watching the live feed like the rest of you!

Edited to add that the coolest thing about Isabelle and Warum Nicht was that they spent the time before the bell rang just tootling around in a big, forward posting trot, with a loop in the reins, and then going around the last corner she closed him up and brought his neck up and Wow! there he was! I loved that. . . .

[ridgeback]

If Anky got a 74 for that halt at the end well if I ever had doubt politics plays a huge roll in this sport it was just confirmed.. Don't get me wrong she's a great rider but to give that a 74...well the judges should have their judging cards taken away...JMO..

[canyonoak]

Anky did not get a 74 for the final halt. Nor did she get a bunch of 7's and 8s.

The scoreboard was showing cumulative score.

Please everyone--get a grip.

Oh Theo, am so hoping you take pity on us mere mortals and grace us with video when you get a chance, as filmloop is not going to have anything (not even the kur????!!!!) in archives.
Nevertheless--glad you are so busy!!

[ridgeback]

Anky did not get a 74 for the final halt. Nor did she get a bunch of 7's and 8s.

The scoreboard was showing cumulative score.

Please everyone--get a grip.

Oh Theo, am so hoping you take pity on us mere mortals and grace us with video when you get a chance, as filmloop is not going to have anything (not even the kur????!!!!) in archives.
Nevertheless--glad you are so busy!!


Well that is a relief...And as for your comment.."Please everyone---get a grip". It's nice to see you haven't changed...;)

[Margaret Freeman]

No, Anky didn't get a 74% for the halt. That was her overall score at that point. (The running scores they show are sort of confusing, and of course the commentators couldn't help us with that because of the non-translation.) Don't know yet what she got for the halt itself, but presumably the quality of her other work overcame the hit she should have taken for her non-halt.

I, too, was struck by watching Werth do a posting trot while stretching down through her warmup round in very, very tight quarters (on a very very big horse!). Then picking up the reins just before A and the horse was right there for her.

[ridgeback]

No, Anky didn't get a 74% for the halt. That was her overall score at that point. (The running scores they show are sort of confusing, and of course the commentators couldn't help us with that because of the non-translation.) Don't know yet what she got for the halt itself, but presumably the quality of her other work overcame the hit she should have taken for her non-halt.

I, too, was struck by watching Werth do a posting trot while stretching down through her warmup round in very, very tight quarters (on a very very big horse!). Then picking up the reins just before A and the horse was right there for her.

Werth was so much fun to watch..her horse looked so relaxed and he looked like he enjoyed what he was doing...Love his ears:)

[freestyle2music]

Allthough Cyberspace over here is hijacked by "Fitna the Movie".

This is the link of a replay of the GrandPrix at the WorldCup Finals.

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v65275104G2MQRBW

When you click on the link you will get a 5 minutes preview. However downloading the FREE gadget VEOH.TV will show you all 4 hours.

Enjoy,

Theo

[canyonoak]

bowing down bowing down, doing the wave doing the wave.

THANK YOU Theo!!!

and in Dutch- Danke!

LOL

[draftxfan]

Um, guys, I was THERE, and yes they DID show individual (NOT cumulative) marks, against the leader's mark for the same movement. Trust me, that non-halt got a 74.

But thanks for telling me to get a grip, canyonoak. I can usually use one.

[ridgeback]

Um, guys, I was THERE, and yes they DID show individual (NOT cumulative) marks, against the leader's mark for the same movement. Trust me, that non-halt got a 74.

But thanks for telling me to get a grip, canyonoak. I can usually use one.


Thanks draftxfan...are you having a blast?

[freestyle2music]

bowing down bowing down, doing the wave doing the wave.

THANK YOU Theo!!!

and in Dutch- Danke!

LOL

Danke is German.

Bedankt is Dutch

But as always your wish is my command.
Back to my regular scheduled show...

Theo

[lukas1987]

Trust me, that non-halt got a 74.

I'm confused. The score for a halt (or any movement in a dressage test)can be 0 through 10. How did the halt score 74?

[slc2]

the magic of the internet.

[lukas1987]

:lol:

[freestyle2music]

I really liked the score of Coby and BMC O'Jay;):cool:

@ Lukas1987.....74% is the average of 5 judges !

[lukas1987]

freestyle2music: Thanks, I know. I was responding to the OP who doesn't seem to know how dressage movements are scored. See the above comment where she confirms the halt mark as 74 because she "was there".

[ridgeback]

Wow do you guys think her halt could have cost her the win?

Chairman of the judges Australian Mary Seefried made the biggest difference of 3% between the two. She explained: “We judges were a little split in the decisions. To me Isabell had the ability tonight to ask full power and that showed. She definitely was mistake free where as Anky had tiny mistakes and was missing the final halt. That is also punished in submissiveness.”

http://www.dressagedaily.com/

[ridgeback]

I really liked the score of Coby and BMC O'Jay;):cool:

@ Lukas1987.....74% is the average of 5 judges !

I'm not a dressage person so forgive me but isn't the 74% a score if it's the average of the 5 judges? So the halt scored a 74% They don't show 0-10?

thanks

[freestyle2music]

The problem is that there is NO rule how long a halt should last.

1 second, 3 seconds, 5 seconds, 10 seconds ???

So the judges can fiddle around with the halt to their own comfort ;)

While watching the broadcast I noticed two 10's for the Halt... Laurens and Kyra.
But Heeee I am only the musicmaker.

[PiaffeDreams]

.... a nanosecond :winkgrin:

[ridgeback]

The problem is that there is NO rule how long a halt should last.

1 second, 3 seconds, 5 seconds, 10 seconds ???

So the judges can fiddle around with the halt to their own comfort ;)

While watching the broadcast I noticed two 10's for the Halt... Laurens and Kyra.
But Heeee I am only the musicmaker.

I see but when there's not even a halt for a nano second I don't understand the great score that is if she got a 74% for the halt..Again that is all we are shown while watching.

[draftxfan]

lukas1987: my, aren't we the smarty-pants! But given that I rode my first test in 1970, I actually AM pretty familiar with how the movements are scored, thanks. The thing is, when there are multiple judges, the score needs to be expressed differently -- that is, it has to be taken out at least one decimal point further when there are five judges, and at least two decimal points further when there are three judges. I'm guessing that the convention is to elaborate the score into a percentage whenever there is more than one judge. I may be wrong, though -- it's happened once or twice before.

[egontoast]

Trust me, that non-halt got a 74.


Wow, she got a 74 out of 10 and kyra and Laurens only got 10s out of 10 for the halt?? Amazing.

I bet we'll be hearing about that one for years, nevermind that it was most probably the cumulative score.

[ridgeback]

Wow, she got a 74 out of 10 and kyra and Laurens only got 10s out of 10 for the halt?? Amazing.

I bet we'll be hearing about that one for years, nevermind that it was most probably the cumulative score.

Ok what confuses me when they show actual and lead for example extended trot actual 74% lead 69.8% ?? what does this mean if it's not the score for that specific part of the test?? thanks

[slc2]

the rule does not define how long the halt is, mainly because a bunch of people who were scoring your tests in 1970 didn't think it was really very very important score exactly how long anyone halted for...so it doesn't turn a 74 into a 54, a 34 or a 24 if you do a 'philadelphia stop'. it more like turns a 79 into a 74...with the other little bloopers that happened.

the judges said she got dinged in the halt score and the submissiveness score...but NOT ENOUGH FOR SOME PEOPLE!!!!

LOL!!!!! :)

look at it this way. it's over and everyone is still alive and can walk and speak...including spectators on the internet....

and no..you can't get a 74% for one movement in a test...except on the bb's....

[ridgeback]

the rule does not define how long the halt is, mainly because a bunch of people who were scoring your tests in 1970 didn't think it was really very very important score exactly how long anyone halted for...so it doesn't turn a 74 into a 54, a 34 or a 24 if you do a 'philadelphia stop'. it more like turns a 79 into a 74...with the other little bloopers that happened.

the judges said she got dinged in the halt score and the submissiveness score...but NOT ENOUGH FOR SOME PEOPLE!!!!

LOL!!!!! :)

look at it this way. it's over and everyone is still alive and can walk and speak...including spectators on the internet....

and no..you can't get a 74% for one movement in a test...except on the bb's....


Well this was a nice thread but then you had to come on with you judgments and assumptions about what people were saying or asking...although not surprised I've read enough of your posts.

[TeddyRocks]

!

Edited to add that the coolest thing about Isabelle and Warum Nicht was that they spent the time before the bell rang just tootling around in a big, forward posting trot, with a loop in the reins, and then going around the last corner she closed him up and brought his neck up and Wow! there he was! I loved that. . . .

LOVED that you posted that about Isabelle and her horse. HOW INCREDIBLE... nice. Thanks for the great post!

And congrats to the Americans!

[egontoast]

From Dressage Daily


Chairman of the judges Australian Mary Seefried made the biggest difference of 3% between the two. She explained: “We judges were a little split in the decisions. To me Isabell had the ability tonight to ask full power and that showed. She definitely was mistake free where as Anky had tiny mistakes and was missing the final halt. That is also punished in submissiveness.”

[Bogey2]

does anyone have the order of the rides today??

[imajicadutch]

Sorry about the format...I just copied and pasted.

NRTIMECNRHORSERIDER EUR
114h001DONNA CARRERA - HANN
Mare\Black\1994\Donnerhall\Rozzie RYAN (AUS) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/aus.gif
214h105AFRIKKA - OLDBG
Gelding\Bay\1990\\Anders DAHL (DEN) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/den.gif
314h2024RANDON - PHBA
Gelding\Bay\1997\Czuwaj x Famino\Michal RAPCEWICZ (POL) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/pol.gif
414h3027MAKSYMILIAN - KWPN
Gelding\DarkBay\1994\Elcaro x Allegro\Jane HANNIGAN (USA) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/usa.gif
514h4026ISIDOR - SWB
Gelding\DarkBay\1996\Guinness x Urbino\Louise NATHHORST (SWE) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/swe.gif
614h502PAGANINI - RHEIN
Gelding\Bay\1994\Pavarotti vd Helle x Sheyenne de Baugy\Jeroen DEVROE (BEL) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/bel.gif
715h0028IDOCUS - KWPN
Stallion\Bay\1990\Equador x Zonneglans\Courtney KING (USA) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/usa.gif
815h3025BRIAR 899 - SWB
Stallion\Chestnut\1991\Magini x Krocket\Jan BRINK (SWE) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/swe.gif
915h4019HEXAGON'S OLLRIGHT - KWPN
Gelding\Chestnut\1996\Rubiquil x El Corona\Laurens VAN LIEREN (NED) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/ned.gif
1015h506GREDSTEDGaRDS CASMIR - DWB
Gelding\DarkBay\1999\Continue\Andreas HELGSTRAND (DEN) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/den.gif
1116h0022HUNTER DOUGLAS SUNRISE - HANN
Mare\DarkBay\1994\Singular Joter x Werther\Imke SCHELLEKENS-BARTELS (NED) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/ned.gif
1216h1010MAX - SWB
Gelding\DarkBay\1995\Master 850 x Alpen Fürst\Kyra KYRKLUND (FIN) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/fin.gif
1316h208DIGBY - DWB
Gelding\DarkBay\1997\Donnerhall x Sandro\Nathalie ZU SAYN-WITTGENSTEIN (DEN) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/den.gif
1416h3013WARUM NICHT FRH - HANN
Gelding\Chestnut\1996\Weltmeyer x Wenzel I\Isabell WERTH (GER) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/ger.gif
1516h4018IPS SALINERO - HANN
Gelding\Bay\1994\Salieri x Lungau\Anky VAN GRUNSVEN (NED) http://events.horses.nl/2008/flags/ned.gif Saturday March 29, 2008

[slc2]

not really, ridgeback, my post would have been fine if i had agreed that the scoring sucked and anky should have been punished much more heavily for the brief halt. THAT sort of response, no matter how nastily worded, would be accepted with a nod and approval - and has been :lol:

[ridgeback]

not really, ridgeback, my post would have been fine if i had agreed that the scoring sucked and anky should have been punished much more heavily for the brief halt. THAT sort of response, no matter how nastily worded, would be accepted with a nod and approval - and has been :lol:


Sorry again you are incorrect..I expect you to come on these threads and assume things and take it gutter you always do..We where having a nice conversation about the rides and asking questions and you had to come on with your silly sarcarasm and know it all attitude and ruin the thread...not surprised..

Oh there was nothing brief about that halt by the way.. Anky had a lovely ride and it was great to watch but the correct person won the class.

[lindac]

The announcer keeps saying a word that sounds like "clam bake". I know he is probably saying klein-something but what is he saying and what does it mean?

[Kelly in NJ]

AHHHH Did anyone else's live video just quit??

[J-Lu]

YES!!!!!!!!! ARRGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!! I was wondering if it quit because the freestyles will be marketed?

Arrgg!!

[Kelly in NJ]

Oh Thank God it is back! I restarted my computer :) Don't know if that did anything, but it works now!

[J-Lu]

Mine too, whew! I just refreshed the browser. Must have been a blip on their end.

whew!:D

[J-Lu]

They're killin' me. What was her score!

[Kelly in NJ]

I know! Tell us the score!!!!!!! :eek: I am going to be late for my lesson this morning but I can't leave until I know!

[ridgeback]

Why aren't the listing Courtney's score it's not even on the live results page yet either?????AGH

[PFMJ]

I think, as reported on another board, Courtney received 0s on her pirouettes for more than 2 rotations.

[Discobold]

I'm going to be late too. I don't speak Dutch but it seems there is some sort of issue with Courtney's pirouettes. They keep using that word a lot.

[ridgeback]

63.40 score bummer how could the coach not know this?? they said you can't do three pirouettes??

[Kelly in NJ]

AHHHHHEEEEE Everything else was so awesome, I think they just said she has a 63.4 :(

[XHalt]

63.40 score bummer how could the coach not know this?? they said you can't do three pirouettes??

It was a mistake, happens quite a bit. Didn't Steffan do it at a large event too?

[Roberta]

I can assure you, Courtney knows that she cannot do 3 rotations and so does Klaus. It is not an issue of not knowing.

When you are in the middle of your second piroutte, it is easy to over rotate, which is why she was dinged. It is too bad it happened. However, Courtney is not the first to do that and will not be the last.

[ridgeback]

I can assure you, Courtney knows that she cannot do 3 rotations and so does Klaus. It is not an issue of not knowing.

When you are in the middle of your second piroutte, it is easy to over rotate, which is why she was dinged. It is too bad it happened. However, Courtney is not the first to do that and will not be the last.


Did she do three complete rotations..I thought I counted three but I thought I miscounted.. What a disappointment to do it at the World Cup...:sadsmile: Olympics will be better:)

[ridgeback]

WOW Anky was fun to watch...Congrats

[freestyle2music]

Sad for Courtney, also because she had a very good ride until that moment. However she wasn't disqualified like many other riders who did the same. But I know Jan Peeters (head judge) is a very mild judge and decided to give O.O.O.O.O

Theo

[J-Lu]

Still no final halt but indeed a beautiful and seemingly flawless ride. This ride really deserved to win. She got an artistic score of 94% and a 90%. Wow!!!

[egontoast]

Could someone please give a detailed update for those of us who can't see it.

I'm getting only snippets of audio, no video, and currently hearing lots of praise for Jane H. I guess I'll have to buy the dvd.

[Equibrit]

Still no final halt but indeed a beautiful and seemingly flawless ride. This ride really deserved to win. She got an artistic score of 94% and a 90%. Wow!!!


Salinero still can't STAND though!

[egontoast]

Can't stand ? WHuh?

Difficult to settle in the halt in a charged atmosphere? Yes.

Marked down for it? yes

What more do you want? A public hanging? I guess so.

So should the horse with the best halt always win the freestyle? Gee that would make it easy for the rest of us. Get the halt right and you get the gold! Nevermind the other stuff.
:lol:

PS I was rooting for Isabel. How did she do? I'd be interested in some analysis of the rides other than Salinero didn't halt.

[Coreene]

HUP HOLLAND! ORANJE BOVEN!

Anky won
Isabell second
Kyra third
Imke fourth
Laurens sixth
Coreene happy

[saabski]

I think Equibrit may have been referring to the awards ceremony (long) when Salerno couldn't stand.

I loved Isabel's ride - couldn't pick out where she might have been marked down (don't know enough) but as a pair the ride seemed quite effortless and her horse less edgy. she rode him around on a fairly loose rein after the test and he looked very relaxed, stood quietly during the prize-giving with all its associated banter and people patting him (as did 3rd place Max, Kyra Kyrkland).

THANKS to draftxfan who posted the link to this live video! It came through brilliantly on my PC - we have a T1 at work, so came in Saturday to 'get some work done' (cough, cough) and even snuck a few looks at the GP jumping late yesterday! Since I know not one word of Dutch, the commentary was lost on me, but GREAT video! Wouldn't it be nice to have it some of the US riding available like this!??!?!
http://www.indoorbrabant.com/cms/page.php?id=uitslagen

[egontoast]

Anky won
Isabell second
Imke third


Are you sure , coreene? Looks like Max was 3rd?

[Coreene]

Are you sure , coreene? Looks like Max was 3rd?You are right and I just changed it. Glasses not on yet. And landline and cell ringing at same time. :lol:

[Coreene]

Hey can someone please post full results? I am on a bloody dial-up and can't get the page with the full results. Thanks!

[dilligaff2]

1 18 IPS SALINERO - HANN
Gelding\Bay\1994\Salieri x Lungau\ Anky VAN GRUNSVEN (NED) 80,000.00 81.00
94.00 81.00
89.00 82.00
90.00 77.00
88.00 80.00
90.00 852.00 85.200
2 13 WARUM NICHT FRH - HANN
Gelding\Chestnut\1996\Weltmeyer x Wenzel I\ Isabell WERTH (GER) 60,000.00 78.50
92.00 76.00
88.00 77.00
87.00 78.00
88.00 75.50
86.00 826.00 82.600
3 10 MAX - SWB
Gelding\DarkBay\1995\Master 850 x Alpen Fürst\ Kyra KYRKLUND (FIN) 40,000.00 73.50
85.00 72.50
85.00 71.00
80.00 72.50
85.00 74.00
83.00 781.50 78.150
4 22 HUNTER DOUGLAS SUNRISE - HANN
Mare\DarkBay\1994\Singular Joter x Werther\ Imke SCHELLEKENS-BARTELS (NED) 22,000.00 75.50
82.00 73.00
81.00 73.50
81.00 72.00
84.00 72.00
80.00 774.00 77.400
5 25 BRIAR 899 - SWB
Stallion\Chestnut\1991\Magini x Krocket\ Jan BRINK (SWE) 12,000.00 74.50
83.00 68.50
76.00 72.50
81.00 72.00
83.00 71.50
83.00 765.00 76.500
6 19 HEXAGON'S OLLRIGHT - KWPN
Gelding\Chestnut\1996\Rubiquil x El Corona\ Laurens VAN LIEREN (NED) 7,000.00 71.50
81.00 70.00
77.00 72.50
82.00 72.50
82.00 72.50
80.00 761.00 76.100
7 6 GREDSTEDGaRDS CASMIR - DWB
Gelding\DarkBay\1999\Continue\ Andreas HELGSTRAND (DEN) 5,000.00 73.00
78.00 73.00
80.00 71.50
78.00 69.50
79.00 72.00
78.00 752.00 75.200
8 8 DIGBY - DWB
Gelding\DarkBay\1997\Donnerhall x Sandro\ Nathalie ZU SAYN-WITTGENSTEIN (DEN) 3,000.00 70.50
79.00 66.00
74.00 68.50
77.00 72.00
81.00 69.50
77.00 734.50 73.450
9 2 PAGANINI - RHEIN
Gelding\Bay\1994\Pavarotti vd Helle x Sheyenne de Baugy\ Jeroen DEVROE (BEL) 3,000.00 66.50
75.00 71.00
76.00 71.00
78.00 70.00
74.00 69.50
78.00 729.00 72.900
10 5 AFRIKKA - OLDBG
Gelding\Bay\1990\\ Anders DAHL (DEN) 3,000.00 69.50
77.00 66.00
71.00 68.50
76.00 69.50
73.00 69.00
76.00 715.50 71.550
11 1 DONNA CARRERA - HANN
Mare\Black\1994\Donnerhall\ Rozzie RYAN (AUS) 3,000.00 67.00
72.00 66.50
72.00 68.50
75.00 68.00
71.00 64.00
72.00 696.00 69.600
12 27 MAKSYMILIAN - KWPN
Gelding\DarkBay\1994\Elcaro x Allegro\ Jane HANNIGAN (USA) 3,000.00 62.50
70.00 68.00
73.00 67.50
72.00 68.50
70.00 69.00
74.00 694.50 69.450
13 24 RANDON - PHBA
Gelding\Bay\1997\Czuwaj x Famino\ Michal RAPCEWICZ (POL) 3,000.00 64.50
71.00 65.50
70.00 67.50
74.00 68.50
74.00 64.50
71.00 690.50 69.050
14 26 ISIDOR - SWB
Gelding\DarkBay\1996\Guinness x Urbino\ Louise NATHHORST (SWE) 3,000.00 66.00
70.00 64.50
68.00 62.00
68.00 66.50
75.00 66.00
74.00 680.00 68.000
15 28 IDOCUS - KWPN
Stallion\Bay\1990\Equador x Zonneglans\ Courtney KING (USA) 3,000.00 61.50
63.00 60.00
64.00 65.00
65.00 63.50
62.00 63.00
67.00 634.00 63.400

[saabski]

1 18 IPS SALINERO - HANN
Gelding\Bay\1994\Salieri x Lungau\ Anky VAN GRUNSVEN (NED) 80,000.00 81.00
94.00 81.00
89.00 82.00
90.00 77.00
88.00 80.00
90.00 852.00 85.200
2 13 WARUM NICHT FRH - HANN
Gelding\Chestnut\1996\Weltmeyer x Wenzel I\ Isabell WERTH (GER) 60,000.00 78.50
92.00 76.00
88.00 77.00
87.00 78.00
88.00 75.50
86.00 826.00 82.600
3 10 MAX - SWB
Gelding\DarkBay\1995\Master 850 x Alpen Fürst\ Kyra KYRKLUND (FIN) 40,000.00 73.50
85.00 72.50
85.00 71.00
80.00 72.50
85.00 74.00
83.00 781.50 78.150
4 22 HUNTER DOUGLAS SUNRISE - HANN
Mare\DarkBay\1994\Singular Joter x Werther\ Imke SCHELLEKENS-BARTELS (NED) 22,000.00 75.50
82.00 73.00
81.00 73.50
81.00 72.00
84.00 72.00
80.00 774.00 77.400
5 25 BRIAR 899 - SWB
Stallion\Chestnut\1991\Magini x Krocket\ Jan BRINK (SWE) 12,000.00 74.50
83.00 68.50
76.00 72.50
81.00 72.00
83.00 71.50
83.00 765.00 76.500
6 19 HEXAGON'S OLLRIGHT - KWPN
Gelding\Chestnut\1996\Rubiquil x El Corona\ Laurens VAN LIEREN (NED) 7,000.00 71.50
81.00 70.00
77.00 72.50
82.00 72.50
82.00 72.50
80.00 761.00 76.100
7 6 GREDSTEDGaRDS CASMIR - DWB
Gelding\DarkBay\1999\Continue\ Andreas HELGSTRAND (DEN) 5,000.00 73.00
78.00 73.00
80.00 71.50
78.00 69.50
79.00 72.00
78.00 752.00 75.200
8 8 DIGBY - DWB
Gelding\DarkBay\1997\Donnerhall x Sandro\ Nathalie ZU SAYN-WITTGENSTEIN (DEN) 3,000.00 70.50
79.00 66.00
74.00 68.50
77.00 72.00
81.00 69.50
77.00 734.50 73.450
9 2 PAGANINI - RHEIN
Gelding\Bay\1994\Pavarotti vd Helle x Sheyenne de Baugy\ Jeroen DEVROE (BEL) 3,000.00 66.50
75.00 71.00
76.00 71.00
78.00 70.00
74.00 69.50
78.00 729.00 72.900
10 5 AFRIKKA - OLDBG
Gelding\Bay\1990\\ Anders DAHL (DEN) 3,000.00 69.50
77.00 66.00
71.00 68.50
76.00 69.50
73.00 69.00
76.00 715.50 71.550
11 1 DONNA CARRERA - HANN
Mare\Black\1994\Donnerhall\ Rozzie RYAN (AUS) 3,000.00 67.00
72.00 66.50
72.00 68.50
75.00 68.00
71.00 64.00
72.00 696.00 69.600
12 27 MAKSYMILIAN - KWPN
Gelding\DarkBay\1994\Elcaro x Allegro\ Jane HANNIGAN (USA) 3,000.00 62.50
70.00 68.00
73.00 67.50
72.00 68.50
70.00 69.00
74.00 694.50 69.450
13 24 RANDON - PHBA
Gelding\Bay\1997\Czuwaj x Famino\ Michal RAPCEWICZ (POL) 3,000.00 64.50
71.00 65.50
70.00 67.50
74.00 68.50
74.00 64.50
71.00 690.50 69.050
14 26 ISIDOR - SWB
Gelding\DarkBay\1996\Guinness x Urbino\ Louise NATHHORST (SWE) 3,000.00 66.00
70.00 64.50
68.00 62.00
68.00 66.50
75.00 66.00
74.00 680.00 68.000
15 28 IDOCUS - KWPN
Stallion\Bay\1990\Equador x Zonneglans\ Courtney KING (USA) 3,000.00 61.50
63.00 60.00
64.00 65.00
65.00 63.50
62.00 63.00
67.00 634.00 63.400

[Coreene]

Thank you, Dilli! Nice to see Nathalie and Jeroen do so well.

[freestyle2music]

I think Equibrit may have been referring to the awards ceremony (long) when Salerno couldn't stand.

I loved Isabel's ride - couldn't pick out where she might have been marked down (don't know enough) but as a pair the ride seemed quite effortless and her horse less edgy. she rode him around on a fairly loose rein after the test and he looked very relaxed, stood quietly during the prize-giving with all its associated banter and people patting him (as did 3rd place Max, Kyra Kyrkland).

THANKS to draftxfan who posted the link to this live video! It came through brilliantly on my PC - we have a T1 at work, so came in Saturday to 'get some work done' (cough, cough) and even snuck a few looks at the GP jumping late yesterday! Since I know not one word of Dutch, the commentary was lost on me, but GREAT video! Wouldn't it be nice to have it some of the US riding available like this!??!?!
http://www.indoorbrabant.com/cms/page.php?id=uitslagen

At the press-conference Isabelle knew exactly where and why she was marked down.

And.....a general remark.... it's really amazing how people strangle cq blindfold themselves in the Halt
of a whole test, and don't see the rest of the test. Could it be that the Halt is the only thing these people can see/judge ?

[mtngirl]

Have they posted the videos of the Kur on VEOH yet like they did the Grand Prix yesterday? Missed the live feed, and haven't found it on the search option on Veoh yet. Maybe I'm just not using the correct phrasing???

[Equibrit]

How come somebody can train a horse to win World Championships and not train the very same horse to stand still? It was funny to watch the award ceremony; KK was announced in 3rd on Max - who raised alternate front legs in salute! Then Isabel on WN who was quite solid and then this prancing looney horse who couldn't stand, couldn't be ridden close to other horses and, at one point was passaging backwards and needed an escort to lead him. It raises a another question. Does Sjef choose looney horses and then have to use their particular training/husbandry methods to compete, or do their training/husbandry methods make looney horses?

[egontoast]

I think Theo is correct. People focus on the halt issue because it is easy to see. The people who complain about halts never seem to talk about relative collection, throughness, suppleness, just the horse did not halt and my horse can halt better than that! Gimme the gold!

Who cares if a horse halts in an awards ceremony? I think the awards ceremonies and victory laps are nuts anyway.

[Equibrit]

It really doesn't have a lot to do with halts. It is apparent that the horse cannot be trusted in common place situations. Do you think he ever gets out of a stall except to train with his chin on his chest? Is it ethical to "train" a horse to that level of hysteria, especially in a sport that is said to value relaxation?

[egontoast]

Do you think he ever gets out of a stall except to train with his chin on his chest?

Yes, unless they are lying when they say they believe in daily turnout.

I'd rather know the facts, though, than try to imagine what their horses lives are like.

Facts please instead of hysteria.

[Bogey2]

I would give up the halt if I could ride the rest of the test like that!:winkgrin:

[tiny's strapper]

<snip>
Who cares if a horse halts in an awards ceremony? I think the awards ceremonies and victory laps are nuts anyway.

exactly.
Anyone that's ever been in an indoor CDI ceremony will tell you that it is crazy and they'd rather not do it, particularly trying to sit on a ridiculously slippery rug.

I know of the most mild mannered horses to wind themselves up during one. One I know very well will Levade during an indoor presentation with a large crowd, and he spends each and every day out in a paddock and is the biggest sook to handle and ride.

[ridgeback]

At the press-conference Isabelle knew exactly where and why she was marked down.

And.....a general remark.... it's really amazing how people strangle cq blindfold themselves in the Halt
of a whole test, and don't see the rest of the test. Could it be that the Halt is the only thing these people can see/judge ?

No I don't think that is what anyone is doing...I think we are just making an observation about her style of training and riding.. I'm happy for Isabelle, Anky and Jane...Sadden for Courtney..

[J-Lu]

I think Theo is correct. People focus on the halt issue because it is easy to see. The people who complain about halts never seem to talk about relative collection, throughness, suppleness, just the horse did not halt and my horse can halt better than that! Gimme the gold!

Who cares if a horse halts in an awards ceremony? I think the awards ceremonies and victory laps are nuts anyway.

Oh brother. The fact is, the horse didn't halt. Focus on? No - commented on because it was discussed already, and some people consider a true 4-beat walk and a halt as important parts of the test. It gets focused on when additional posts pop up that complain about what other people post. Wouldn't it be great if people could stick to posting about the actual rides or the facts other people talk about instead of making up assumptions about why people post what they do? Why stir the pot?

[ridgeback]

Yes, unless they are lying when they say they believe in daily turnout.

I'd rather know the facts, though, than try to imagine what their horses lives are like.

Facts please instead of hysteria.


Hysteria ROTFLMAO Egontoast where do you get this stuff..I've read this whole thread and the only hysteria, assumption & Judgement is coming from two people and you are one of them.. I think it is a legit question or observation about the halt.. People are just discussing one part of the test..no big deal or disrespect to Anky..Anky's horse is wonderful but he is more tense and on the muscle then Isabelle's horse but then again I saw quite a few that were tense not just her horse.. I don't think anyone is being nasty and I haven't seen one person post she didn't deserve to win..

[vagabondrider]

I missed the live broadcast and would love to see the freestyles- does anyone have them to post on youtube or elsewhere? already searched youtube and couldn't find anything. Thanks for helping!

[belambi]

I am shocked that Courtney wasnt DQd.. According to the rules she certainly should have been.. (apart from that her test looked great!)

[egontoast]

Jlu and ridgeback, what's the problem? I was replying to this post .


How come somebody can train a horse to win World Championships and not train the very same horse to stand still? It was funny to watch the award ceremony; KK was announced in 3rd on Max - who raised alternate front legs in salute! Then Isabel on WN who was quite solid and then this prancing looney horse who couldn't stand, couldn't be ridden close to other horses and, at one point was passaging backwards and needed an escort to lead him. It raises a another question. Does Sjef choose looney horses and then have to use their particular training/husbandry methods to compete, or do their training/husbandry methods make looney horses?

[shadowdancer]

I'm shocked she made the same mistake in the pirouettes again. Seems that CK made the same error in a freestyle in Florida last year. s'Hertogenbosch is a long way to travel to make that kind of mistake again.

[Santpoort]

[QUOTE=lindac;3108081]The announcer keeps saying a word that sounds like "clam bake". I know he is probably saying klein-something but what is he saying and what does it mean?[/QUOTE

Klein beetje (little bit)

[Roberta]

Belambi (and Theo), according to the FEI rules (November 2007), if a rider in the Grand Prix Freestyle does more than a double pirouette in canter, they will receive a zero for the movement and the scores for choreography and difficulty cannot be higher than a 5. It is no longer an automatic disqualification (as we saw several years ago with Steffan Peters at Gladstone).

Mistakes happen. I am sure that Courtney is beating herself up about it even now as I write this.

[J-Lu]

Jlu and ridgeback, what's the problem? I was replying to this post .

Quote, baby! Then it prevents people like me who made a comment about walks from totally misundertanding you. Sorry!!!!

BTW, Anky talked about her lack of halts as well as her highlights in some post-ride interviews. Courtney talked about her experience, too, in (I think) Sara L's COTH WC highlights on the COTH front page. Apparently, she got caught up in the moment of the ride and lost track of where she was in the rotations. That is why, wimpy but true, I prefer a reader through fourth level tests. It is WAY too easy to get caught up in the moment of the ride. I'm sure Courtney is devestated. It was a very nice ride except for that one slip, and I think her horse was going better than he was in the GP on Thurday. Much better extensions and relaxation (according to my eyeballs).

J.

[Equa]

Well done Rozzie and Donna Carrera. They were stars at a recent Steffen Peters clinic in Australia and also at our little Olympic qualifier (little, because of our equine influenza lockdown dramas).

[ridgeback]

Jlu and ridgeback, what's the problem? I was replying to this post .

Sorry I guess I didn't read the entire thread..Now I understand your post and agree with it..eating humble pie:eek:

[slc2]

One thing to remember is that the awards ceremony 'performance' does not figure in the scoring. Except on bulletin boards...LOL.

The other is to keep in mind that if Equibrit had a nervous horse, she would be angrily justifying why it does not stand immobile for long periods.

In fact even Klimke would 'finesse' a nervous horse about halting. I watched him do it for 45 min at a clinic in Bethesda Maryland 14 years ago. And he said very clearly, that:

with some horses, it is simply not worth fighting about these things in certain situations, it only makes the horse more nervous and tense.

The rider actually makes a choice, which is to not demand total immobility, because it makes the nervous horse feel less trapped and tense. Take a low score on the halt and let the horse make up for it in the rest of the test. it's called 'riding the test'. the person who knows his horse well knows which fights not to pick in the arena. he can read his horse that day and knows what to ignore that day.

I think the current competitive environment favors a very nervous, active, excitable horse that is very sensitive. I also think that van Grunsven is attracted to very hot, tense horses, her junior titles all came on the very hot and excitable Thoroughbred, Prisco.

I also think that riders simply do not have as much choice in horses as everyone here supposes. Salinero was a horse that other people could not ride, other very good top riders, that was the horse that Anky got - a reject with a big problem. I dare say he was probably cheaper than a much easier horse.

So she takes him and wins everything there is to win with him, when others could not ride him around a 20 meter circle. If he slides the halt I can't say I'm going to beat my breast and wail about it.

Yes some other horse is going to get more points at the halt. Who gives a flying mouse poopie? Points here, points there, is what Klimke said about that, which I interpret as every horse is imperfect and every rider is imperfect, even the best simply do the best they can.

It is also very well known in the horse world that Salinero is very badly affected by atmosphere, noise and activity around the competition area.

Most people - MOST of them - do recognize that this is simply a type of horse that exists, and that given the other abilities, his rider tries to cope with this problem as best she can because he has other good qualities.

And we often see a competition horse become MORE tense about things as his competitive career continues. This happens regardless of training method.

It also happened to Klaus Balkenhol with his famous Goldstern. The horse became more and more tense as time went on, not the reverse.

And note, please, Balkenhol is a member of Xenophon and advocates not training in the method of Anky van Grunsven, and he STILL had problems with this.

In fact, this problem was why Balkenhol and Goldstern were not sent to a number of major competitions. The decision was made that the horse spooked so much during the tests, that the organization simply stopped selecting him for teams and it ended Goldstern's career.

In fact this is a far worse problem than having a weak halt as far as affecting the score - the horse went completely out of control. It rang in the end of Goldsterns and for practical matters, Balkenhol's team participation.

So did Klimke, so did many other 'classical' riders who do not do rollkur.

I believe if a spectator watches the sport for a longer time, and listens carefully and is thoughtful, he will often see that things are not quite so simple as they appear.

[freestyle2music]

I am shocked that Courtney wasnt DQd.. According to the rules she certainly should have been.. (apart from that her test looked great!)

Courtesy Dressagedirect:
Comments of Jan Peeters Chairman of the Judges

Wonderful rides already had attracted the eye of the completely sold our audience of 11.000 before the last pairs went.
Danish Anders Dahl had done a great test with flying changes on the circle and difficult transitions like canter to piaffe, rewarded with a nice score of 71,55%.
American Courtney King showed 18 year old Idocus fresh and well moving to his advantage but dropped down in the score as she by mistake performed a three double pirouette to the right. This made the mark for the pirouette go to zero and the mark for the well calculated risks at the artistic side of the sheet to five. Chairman of the judges Jan Peeters commented afterwards: “We will advise the technical committee to a reglement change as this feels rather unfair. My colleagues here in ‘s-Hertogenbosch and me would rather see an error of course and punishment for that, than punish in the calculated risks and technical marks. Only for now this didn’t help her anymore. Too bad.”

[Equibrit]

The other is to keep in mind that if Equibrit had a nervous horse, she would be angrily justifying why it does not stand immobile for long periods.



A pretty shallow, spiteful (and pretty stupid) comment that devalues your entire argument. We don't all operate on your ethos.

[ASB Stars]

A pretty shallow, spiteful (and pretty stupid) comment that devalues your entire argument. We don't all operate on your ethos.

I have learned, after wasting a considerable amount of time reading slc2's interminable ramblings, that the arguments are generally devalued by their very existence. :rolleyes:

[slc2]

Actually equibrit, it is only shallow and spiteful because it disagrees with your position. If it was agreeing with you, you would applaud it as clever and insightful, as usual. :lol:

The fact remains - a horse of Balkenhol's was put out of team competition because it spooked so badly - during the test, not at the halt. Repeatedly. At show after show.

Balkenhol is a member of Xenophon and is against how Anky trains...and yet he had a much worse problem with horse tension than she had.

It ended the horse's career - which 'devalues' the argument that it is rollkur that causes salinero to not halt so well. Other horses that spooked/disobedient etc are Stuckelberger's Granat, and her Gaugin de Lully, and Klimke's Biotop and Pascal. All trained non rollkur.

Your argument ignores a number of facts and a great deal of history and like behavior in other horses. That's your business, but there are other ways of looking at it.

The judges mark Salinaro down for the errors, they don't ignore it at all - and he gains back points in other areas of the test.

The complaint here is that he doesn't get marked down enough.

You will have to change the entire scoring to make a horse get a low mark because he slides thru a halt. And you may not like your own scores if that happens.

He loses points, yes...and as i said before, just not enough for some people.

If I agreed that
1. the judges were corrupt
2. and scored incorrectly because they don't understand the first most basic things about what dressage is supposed to be
3. and that Anky is a terrible, selfish person
4. who trains her horses with brutal shortcuts
5. she never turns her horses out in a pasture

...it would not be 'spiteful', it would be fine. In fact it would be great. Amen, here, here, and pm's, 'Your my new best friend!'

No, I do not train like Anky, never have, never will. And don't agree that 'anything goes to win' - never have, never will.

[freestyle2music]

SLC...I think you have a very mature view on dressage and.... the keyboard-riders of the Internet. You made some very true remarks. Chappeau.

However people want to keep dreaming about KB and WAZ and other ODDG's . They were not there when WAZ tied some steel chains around the legs of the horse of Rehbein, and they didn't see how this horse went nuts.

[Equibrit]

Actually equibrit, it is only shallow and spiteful because it disagrees with your position. If it was agreeing with you, you would applaud it as clever and insightful, as usual. :lol:



I took no position on your claims with reference to my mounts.
I made no comment as to the rest of your tome.
So - once again you have devalued your position with stupidity.
It is a mistake to make assumptions based on why YOU think people have a stated opinion.
It tends to reveal your sad state rather than anybody else's, and makes adult debate impossible.

I wonder if Mr Zettl would be interested in "mature" people defaming him in public?

[canyonoak]

Did anyone actually watch the kurs?

Just wondering, because the parts I did get to see were wonderful.
Unfortunately, Im on satellite, my daughter left the laptop on internet all night, and apparently used up the assigned bandwidth/space/energy/whatever that is my daily allotment--so I missed Anky and Isabell and Kyra and Imke.

After I got through thinking of clever ways to throttle daughter, realized that soon enough, our beloved Theo will put me out of my misery with some kind of link (getting down on knees, begging).

LOL.

But back to original question. Did anyone see the rides?
because they sound wonderful from the snippet-comments I have gotten from friends.

I can see from photos that Warum Nicht has put on a whole lot of topline, and O judge S. Clarke remared on how much better Max looks...but just sitting here, idly wondering about all of it.

I thought Jane Hannigan's horse, with a bit more power, could be quite something.Super elastic and supple, beautiful picture.

It was interesting to watch Afrikka, because she definitely represents a type that is no longer what is called 'modern', but her ease in performing difficult transition to even more difficult movements was outstanding.

Thought Idocus was working on a 75-76 when the pirouettes whizzed by<g>.

[freestyle2music]

As always a very normal thread is degraded to a mud throwing party. What else is NEW. I really hesitate to post the ReRun of the WorldCup Finals Freestyle to Music, because it always seem to become feed for the sharks.

I just had a trip around the dressage BB's of the world. Salinero still can halt, Idocus had his mouth open half of the test, Kyra had terrible music, Briar is getting to old, The Polish rider was riding a Cart-horse...etc...etc..etc...

Please put your own videos online !

[ridgeback]

Well I loved watching both days...It was a treat so thank you to whoever posted the link.. No mud throwing here and in general I don't think people are throwing mud they are just commenting on the tests to see if what they were seeing was correct. I realize some aren't being very nice but that comes along with chat boards..

[slc2]

People are entitled to express their opinions and to like or not like something, so what if they think a Polish horse looked like a cart horse, maybe they don't understand there are many different types of successful dressage horses, or they don't know how many good horses have polish breeding.

A 'judge' who only finds fault has a big problem. He will not ride in a balanced way or make even progress.

I just feel it becomes juvenile sometimes when people start attacking an individual they really don't know anything about except from a video they look at for a few moments. They assume alot and much is just repeated from another bb jockey and passed along.

At the same time I don't agree that I or anyone else really needs to put their horse in an extreme position to train it. But I won't call them a murderer, either.

were you there to see Mr. Rehbein take training advice from Walter Zettl? Isn't that a little hard to picture?

But so what if people like Zettl as a trainer, they are paying the bills, so what if they like him.

And as far as the 'chains'....they could be seen at many a sale barn to make the untalented horses piaffe after the business day is done.

Schultheis made the mistake of sending Balkenhol to competition that he was not ready for too, with spectacularly bad results. Schultheis was still very good. If one can't evaluate based on technique one keeps score of what was reported in the magazine, LOL.

I don't really care which horse wins so much. I feel they're all good. I learn something from watching all of them. I look at each horse and rider and try to pick something up. That's all I really care about.

[Coreene]

COTH Dressage Forum 101:

1. If Anky wins, the Anky-bashers will focus on the halt to piss and moan about
2. If Isabell wins, it must be because Anky did not halt

[egontoast]

Theo, I think we need to have the same healthy skepticism for second hand allegations about WAZ or Balkenhol as we have about Anky et al.

Two wrongs don't make a right, in other words. If you were there, fine. If not, it means nothing more than the usual foolishness read on the boards.

Coreene, there are also other categories who actually like Warum Nicht (a lot!) and it has nothing to do with the HAlt.

[fiona]

They were not there when WAZ tied some steel chains around the legs of the horse of Rehbein, and they didn't see how this horse went nuts.



Is that true? or urban myth?
What sort of chains? How heavy? How wide? Tied with what?
And most important
For how long? when? Why?
and even more important than that
Does it work?

[egontoast]

I heard that fiona trims her dressage horses' nose hairs with a chain saw!

[Ambrey]

I heard that fiona trims her dressage horses' nose hairs with a chain saw!

True story!

[Equibrit]

People are entitled to express their opinions and to like or not like something, so what if they think a Polish horse looked like a cart horse, maybe they don't understand there are many different types of successful dressage horses, or they don't know how many good horses have polish breeding.



There you go again - making stupid assumptions. Why should it be that "they don't understand' or "they don't know'. Why the hell can't they just NOT LIKE A POLISH HORSE.

PS NOBODY mentioned the halt until the esteemed Dutch member brought it up.

[Ambrey]

Fiona, it does not work. I even paid $250 for the special WAZ brand leg chains, and my horse is still not able to do Grand Prix. What a ripoff!

[slc2]

well you must be using them wrong because in 99 out of 100 dressage riders maximum harmony was reached!

[fiona]

I heard that fiona trims her dressage horses' nose hairs with a chain saw!

That is a truly scurrilous rumour NONE and i repeat NONE of my horses is common enough to possess nose hair. However i do admit to having a certain panache with the said aforementioned implement.

Now back to the more pressing use of leg irons in the training of piaffe.

Ambrey, which legs did you try them on?
You say your horse is not able to do Grand prix which i can well believe - i gather from your posts that you are some sort of cohort or student of Egontoast - are there any components of the GP test that we all know and love that he can attempt? The zig of the zag perchance? The half of a pass?

[Ambrey]

You say your horse is not able to do Grand prix which i can well believe - i gather from your posts that you are some sort of cohort or student of Egontoast - are there any components of the GP test that we all know and love that he can attempt? The zig of the zag perchance? The half of a pass?

My horse excels at the Pilaf, and is very graceful in his airs above the ground. However, he will never be Grand Prix material since he cannot halt even when I chain him to the ground :(

[canyonoak]

And the last ride I saw--which was when the computer quit--was Laurens on Ollright.

What a looooong horse! What an amazing job he does to create a picture where the horse looks six inches 'shorter', LOL.
All I really got to see was the fantastic extended trot around the outside before starting, and the bits of passage he nonchalantly threw in for the judges to notice<g>...and that the horse looked a bit short in the neck.

Was he able to lengthen the front end and keep the balance?
How was the walk work?

[fiona]

However, he will never be Grand Prix material since he cannot halt even when I chain him to the ground

I read somewhere that the cure for a horse that disrespects the power of the chain should have his water and all feed taken away. Sometime later he will stay quite remarkably still and you will never have a problem in this regard ever again.

Was he able to lengthen the front end and keep the balance?
How was the walk work?

No. On account of the gods giving the horse a short neck and a longer back.
Fragile. on account of the self same gods giving the horse a fragile walk.

Of course the Old Dead Gods maintain you can train the walk better but then everyone that is still alive tells you to buy a good walk and you can hardly call the ODG's on it can you?

I speak with the authority of someone that has not seen the competition discussed on the internet/youtube/myspace/facebook/illegaldownloadsdotcom etc etc. I also do not own or have access to a chain or saw or channel ODG's.

[CLB15]

Did anyone actually watch the kurs?
...
But back to original question. Did anyone see the rides?
because they sound wonderful from the snippet-comments I have gotten from friends.

I can see from photos that Warum Nicht has put on a whole lot of topline, and O judge S. Clarke remared on how much better Max looks...but just sitting here, idly wondering about all of it.

I thought Jane Hannigan's horse, with a bit more power, could be quite something.Super elastic and supple, beautiful picture.

It was interesting to watch Afrikka, because she definitely represents a type that is no longer what is called 'modern', but her ease in performing difficult transition to even more difficult movements was outstanding.

Thought Idocus was working on a 75-76 when the pirouettes whizzed by<g>.


Funny you mentioned that- I was wondering what ever happened to the talk about the WC rides (versus overanalysing some rides, and then nitpicking about nitpicking those ride(s), and then nitpicking about those overanalysing the rides).

I only got to see the first two rides on Thursday- I forget who the first one was, but then I got to see Janes ride before heading off to work.

I wish I could've seen the other rides, especially the Freestyles yesterday. I just think it's wicked cool that "some of our own" were there. I loved reading the stories on dressagedaily.com from Jane with the behind the scenes info.

Any of the rides online yet or do we have to wait for the DVD to come out?!

[egontoast]

My horse excels at the Pilaf, and is very graceful in his airs above the ground. However, he will never be Grand Prix material since he cannot halt even when I chain him to the ground


Have you tried throwing some carrot sticks in with the pilaf? I think Waz might recommend that.

You might be surprised.

If all else fails, try crazy glue for the halt (PM for details).

[freestyle2music]

Funny you mentioned that- I was wondering what ever happened to the talk about the WC rides (versus overanalysing some rides, and then nitpicking about nitpicking those ride(s), and then nitpicking about those overanalysing the rides).

I only got to see the first two rides on Thursday- I forget who the first one was, but then I got to see Janes ride before heading off to work.

I wish I could've seen the other rides, especially the Freestyles yesterday. I just think it's wicked cool that "some of our own" were there. I loved reading the stories on dressagedaily.com from Jane with the behind the scenes info.

Any of the rides online yet or do we have to wait for the DVD to come out?!

Here are the links : Part 1 is before the break, and Part 2 is after the break

Part 1

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6545840QTS24akp

Part 2

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v654573883RXwTT4

Enjoy ripping the rides apart :cool:

To watch all three hours please download the free Veoh.TV plug-in

Theo