On why eventing is going the way it is - I'd like to reform NAYRC

[oreo]

I'd like to open this up to discussion......

It seems like 'many" of JR/YR's around here are chasing points to get on the NAYRC team. My neighbor's daughter is seriously burning through expensive horses like they are dirt bikes, just to make it on the "team" and we know several others who are funded to a ridiculous amount by their wealthy parents. If one horse doesn't work, just dump it and get a new one, seems to be the attitude. ANd ride them all year/ ship them up and down the country to make sure you get the points......

I see these kids come and go, often one hit wonders because mom and dad can write the checks, or they got lucky. As someone mentioned on another thread, there is a disconnect between the horse and rider ability. Very few of them have a clue (big generalization, I know!) how to spend several years with a horse, bringing it on. They just shell out the bucks.

There has been some discussion about Pony club standards on the board recently. I'd like to see some more ability to bring on a horse, rather than having daddy pay $xxxx for a packer. If NAYRC doesn't test this, what is the future of the sport?

I think that if NAYRC had some restrictions on how long the rider had owned the horse or required a certain number of levels together, that would stop a lot of the silliness that is turning us into an event horse "factory".

It seems to me, at least, that the JR/YRs are driving a large part of the bad practices in terms of making this a money sport instead of a horsemanship sport.

Would love to hear thoughts/ comments.....

[Mary in Area 1]

oh man, don't start me on NAYRC. It is ALL about how much $$$ you have, esp. in the Dressage and SJ. But the one-hit wonders in eventing are more the norm than you would like to believe. Heaven help the kids who try to be good students AND go to NAYRC: I think it may be close to impossible. (Please don't tell me about all the exceptions, I'm sure there are some, but I know from whence I speak.)

[snoopy]

oh man, don't start me on NAYRC. It is ALL about how much $$$ you have, esp. in the Dressage and SJ. But the one-hit wonders in eventing are more the norm than you would like to believe. Heaven help the kids who try to be good students AND go to NAYRC: I think it may be close to impossible. (Please don't tell me about all the exceptions, I'm sure there are some, but I know from whence I speak.)


Oh come on Mary...you have plenty of money;):lol: Want to buy me a pony?!

[Mary in Area 1]

snoopy, are you planning on trying out for the YR Team? I'll groom for you.

[Jazzy Lady]

Oh come on Mary...you have plenty of money;):lol: Want to buy me a pony?!

Snoops, I think you're beyond the YR age bracket. I'm sorry to break this to you.

[Innfilly]

As a young rider, I would really like to see the ages extended by a couple years, at least, so the * would be 14-21 maybe and the ** 16-24 or something like that. Give us time to actually bring along our own horses! It took me until 16 to just be experienced enough to begin training my own horse under daily supervision of my instructor. Before then, I spent a lot of time competing at training level and below on an experienced old guy, foxhunting, riding other horses for my trainer, grooming for her at events, helping her get her greenies up and going, and... oh yeah, doing homework.

It would be nice if the program encouraged us to really develop up over the years, instead of just grabbing hold of whoever has the nicest horses that manage to cart us around at prelim or intermediate.

[oreo]

I've read a lot of your posts over the years and love your posts......So.......
Can I come muck stalls on your NAYRC trip?

[snoopy]

Mary my darling, my last year in YR was a LONG time ago....but I could still use a groom.


Jazzy, you cow, thanks for pointing that ooooout!!

[oreo]

As a young rider, I would really like to see the ages extended by a couple years, at least, so the * would be 14-21 maybe and the ** 16-24 or something like that. Give us time to actually bring along our own horses! It took me until 16 to just be experienced enough to begin training my own horse under daily supervision of my instructor. Before then, I spent a lot of time competing at training level and below on an experienced old guy, foxhunting, riding other horses for my trainer, grooming for her at events, helping her get her greenies up and going, and... oh yeah, doing homework.

It would be nice if the program encouraged us to really develop up over the years, instead of just grabbing hold of whoever has the nicest horses that manage to cart us around at prelim or intermediate.

Innfilly - you said that beautifully - you are the kind of YR I would like to see represent the sport. Bravo and good luck! I'm sure we will see more of you :)

[JulesGules]

That was beautifully put by Innfilly. As someone who recently aged out without even considering competing, because I brought my own horse along, and we weren't thinking about a one star until I was out of the age bracket, I'd love to see those age ranges change.

A one star by 18 and a two star by 21 means that someone besides the rider has done the majority of the training, and mom and dad paid big bucks so that little Suzy could get on and win. Not that that aren't wonderful exceptions to that from some very talented riders, that deserve every bit of recognition they get!!

I went riding with someone who shall remain unnamed, who did quite well on a very expensive horse at the one star level at Young Riders, who could not put on a flash noseband correctly, nor could this person recognize a pelham bit. I guess there's a reason it's called Young RIDERS and not Young HORSEMEN.

There are some great things that come out of today's program, but it certainly doesn't have any focus on horsemanship, from what I've seen. And if that's the way they want it, fine, but for the young professionals that DO come out of the program, aren't we emphasizing exactly the wrong things for them? It creates a thought process of "oh, I need to find sponsors and owners to buy me the things I need to be in this business, and if that horse breaks, I'll find someone to buy me another one" rather than using careful management and HARD WORK to bring along and PRESERVE the soundness of the horses that you do have.

[flutie1]

I would like to see the NAYRC NOT be an FEI competition.

Flutie

[CookiePony]

I would like to see the NAYRC NOT be an FEI competition.

Flutie

For those of us who are slow on the uptake, why?

I would love to see age limits raised across the board for Prelim, Int, *, and **.

I will also say that the scariest rides I saw while fence judging at a recent event were in the J/YR OP division.

[FlightCheck]

Cookie, you should be in Florida in Jan/Feb when they are age-eligible for the first time - scary!

Our area (Area III) does a YRAP concept that I think is great. The teams at N, T, and Prelim go to MidSouth in October. They do the whole "team" concept, and I've been really, really impressed.

[Muck r us]

I will also say that the scariest rides I saw while fence judging at a recent event were in the J/YR OP division.


I think the JYOP is the scariest division at every event. I don't know if it is the pressure to move up to Prelim in order to make YR before aging out, or something else. Although I have seen some fantastic young riders at Prelim, I have also seen many others who look like a sack of potatoes strapped on a talented horse's back. Just this past weekend, I saw a JYOP competitor who couldn't ride two-point. Fortunately, the horse was far smarter than his rider and they got safely around. I think they even had a clean round.

[StrawberryFields]

I am also a Young Rider who has a limited family fund! I have one horse who I have taken the the novice level. That was as far as she could go so I bought another greenie (cannot afford a made packer!). I find it sort of frustrating at times because it will take YEARS before I will be able to go above prelim with the said horse (and that is if everything goes well!). I will probably never make the YR teams because I am 16 now and this horse is doing x-rails!! :yes:

but, I think the satisfaction of TRAINING your own horse!

[flutie1]

[QUOTE=CookiePony;3097995]For those of us who are slow on the uptake, why?

Becoming FEI added more difficulty for an admittedly scary riding group, more expense for both riders and organizers (passports, officials), more bizarre rules which may fly in Europe, but seem outrageous here.

The justification given by those urging FEI affiliation way back when was that YR's would be eligible to compete in the YR competitions in Europe, and YR's would be thus prepared to go on to vie for Olympic level spots. Has this worked out? I think not.

When the competition became FEI, the numbers of competitors declined significantly. This is sad. And I agree, many of the rides we see out there trying to qualify for NAYRC are damn scary!

Flutie

[blackwly]

Oh, the NAYRC. I'll confess, I don't know how to do it- but if anyone has some reasonable ideas about how to change the culture of this thing, I'll support you completely!

For me, the NAYRC was my introduction to the politics of UL eventing and the "team" atmosphere- and it just about drove me out of the sport. The impact of big $$, the disregard for the long-term soundness of the horses, the need to qualify at all costs...it was horrifying. I'll admit, it sucked me in and spit me out! And I don't think the age limits necessarily have much to do with it, though I do support increasing the minimum ages for prelim, intermediate and advanced from a safety perspective.

I rode in the CCI** at NAYRC at 18, just before starting my freshman year in college. Before hand, I had always had serious team aspirations. Afterwards, I took a year long break from competing at all, before coming back with a completely different philosophy (I'm an amateur, I do this for FUN, if my horse isn't right I'm not going to ride, and I don't ever want to be in the position of riding for anyone but myself.)

How do you fix this system? I have no idea...but it definitely needs to change. Admittedly, there are areas and teams that do it the right way (I think) but how do you spread that philosophy to everyone?

Ok, rant over!

[Smufy3DE]

I would have to agree with what everyone is saying. I am YR and I have one year left. I think it is a great program if it is used properly. You get the upperlevel team competition experience, and you learn to work together. The problem though is that too many of us can't go through upperlevel horses like candy. I had a prelim horse that I was determined to do the one star on two years ago. I had gone down to FL and qualified, and when I came home he broke his leg. I then bought I thousand dollar ottb horse that I have trained myself souly, and its hard because he just did his first prelim and as much as I would love to try and get that experience at riding at the two star, I don't think it is fair to my very nice horse to push him along too fast. They really do need to take a look at changing the ages because overall it would give more riders the opportunity to compete at NAYRC. Its also disappointed because 90 percent of us are in college and its very hard to try and make the qualifications when you are trying to get a college education.

[EventGurlie]

There are some very interesting points made here. Maybe there should be a Young Adult championship haha. You know for those in the age ranges of 21-26?

I don't think that NAYRC can even support the majority of young people bringing along their own horses. From personal experience the timeline for that just isn't feasible. If you have limited funds, by the time you weed through the greenies and find one that actually enjoys eventing enough to get to prelim, well that could take forever. If you're lucky and the horse you pull off the track when your 13yrs old happens to be "the one" then sure, but the chances of that happening are slim.

All I know is I am going to be 23yrs old this year. I have a very nice 4yr old that I've been bringing along throughout college (I've had her since a weanling). I LOVE riding the green beans, I love bringing them along, hopefully this one will take me to at least prelim but I won't know that for quite a while yet. I brought along a number of greenies when I was younger (after having rides on the more experienced types my first couple years eventing when I was 11-13yrs old). I would take these greenies up through Novice before realizing they didn't have what it took to go beyond that, although I did event training a few times one season.

I don't know, maybe it just takes too long to learn how to bring a long a horse yourself to realistically get to that level in that amount of time. I mean not saying that it can't happen or that it hasn't (because I KNOW people who have done this) but its just generally not feasible for the majority, as much as it sucks.

My goals were never to go to the NAYRC because I KNEW I didn't have the resources to get there in that amount of time, but I've always had goals to ride at CCI* and beyond. When I will reach those goals, I do not know, someday hopefully, but I am not worried about it... I'll enjoy my time with the horses I bring along myself.

[Bobthehorse]

I have also seen many others who look like a sack of potatoes strapped on a talented horse's back. Just this past weekend, I saw a JYOP competitor who couldn't ride two-point. Fortunately, the horse was far smarter than his rider and they got safely around. I think they even had a clean round.

See, I HATE that! Not that I wish harm on these people, and especially not their horses....but the fact they they can go clear but be constantly teetering on the brink of a crash is horrifying. It makes me so angry to see such riders (er, passengers?) out there winning, it trivializes everything the rest of us work so hard for. There is a time and a place for a safe packer, and its not in UL competition, it just shouldnt fly there, but scarily and sadly enough, it does. I see people in my area moving from the BN/N limit type packer straight to a made intermediate horse and moving up the levels like a hurricane.

I too will not be making the NAYRC team, partly because I took some time off in high school, and partly because the horse I have now is nowhere near that level. He will be one day, I hope, but I will be beyond 21 at that point. And frankly I could only afford the raw talent, not the training and experience to go with it.

[Eventer724]

I am still a young rider, have worked my butt off as a working student for eight years, loved every minute of it, and still get beaten by spoiled rich kids whose parents think the sport is about buying their way into it. I see some girls who couldn't even ride a training packer nicely but can afford to go buy the horse that has done a two star and make the team. They are passengers on machines...and we wonder why so many people are getting hurt these days. Young Rider's was meant to reward those who had worked hard with the chance to represent what they have done on an international scale. It was never the commercial dog-eat-dog world that it is now. I have tried for three years to make the team and have fallen short every time. I did not have the fancy horse..but I had the drive...however the drive doesn't seem to matter anymore. As long as the right horse can clock around the course and the rider can stay on...well...that is what matters now. What doesn't matter anymore is if that same rider can ride a green horse around novice, or a hot horse around prelim...that is what I learned, and have continued to learn how to do...to me that is something that no one can take away...that is the true grit of the sport...the story of riders that can take that racehorse off the track and do something special with it...or can bring along a homebred...I would doubt that most of today's young riders could or would want to do that...why work hard when it can get handed to you? Since when was eventing supposed to be this way? I recognize that there are exceptions...but honestly...how many young riders are in FL or SC right now on spring break..just flying down to do a two star so they can make the team..then ask the question...how many of those riders really know what eventing was or how many of them really care? Eventing is about partnership..something that is severely lacking in this day in age...if you need to fly down to compete that weekend..you have missed the point...what possibly gives someone the idea that that is a good thing do do...oh wait...ka-ching ka-ching...that's what matters and that's what gets you there...not hard work or sacrifice...not the way people used to think...and not who can ride any horse you put them on...as long as you can ride the ex-four star horse...well you are set right??? You are a lock to make the team...forget those who might be scrubbing buckets, mucking stalls...just to pay for what they have...that is the world that I know...and for me, if I don't make the team...I will have tried my best and learned a heck of a lot more than if I had just walked out there with my 80 thousand dollar horse

[LynLyn]

As the owner of a horse that did make it to YR one year, I can attest to the passport thing being a giant PIA and not needed. And I hear you, there are kids that can afford to move up and down the coast with the weather to make points. On the other hand, Area IV has sent two kids in the past two years that do not fit that bill by any stretch of the imagination. They have both been on borrowed horses who, trust me, were not high dollar animals and learned as the kids learned.

[piaffeprincess98]

As a young rider, I would really like to see the ages extended by a couple years, at least, so the * would be 14-21 maybe and the ** 16-24 or something like that. Give us time to actually bring along our own horses! It took me until 16 to just be experienced enough to begin training my own horse under daily supervision of my instructor. Before then, I spent a lot of time competing at training level and below on an experienced old guy, foxhunting, riding other horses for my trainer, grooming for her at events, helping her get her greenies up and going, and... oh yeah, doing homework.

It would be nice if the program encouraged us to really develop up over the years, instead of just grabbing hold of whoever has the nicest horses that manage to cart us around at prelim or intermediate.
I completely agree. As a YR who turned 21 in November and just got my "project", I feel a little left out. I've had my Advanced packer for four years now and it took us a few years to get confident in each other. I bought him thinking I could immediately do prelim, but boy was I wrong! We needed some years together to get to know one another.

[Little Valkyrie]

Although the USEA/FEI/USEF had a good idea when developing the Young Riders program, to develop the riders of tomorrow, they forgot one vital issue... HORSEMANSHIP. As my mom said, "To ride without knowlege is to simply be a passenger". I once aspired to be a member of the Young Rider's team, but soon realized that the funds necessary are astronomical, and that the safety and well-being of my horse could be severely compromised for the sake of points. Although I do have goals to make it to the top of this sport, I will not ruin my horse to do so. I will sit at training level until I feel that my horse is ready, and not move up one second before I feel she is ready. I recognize the support my parents give me, and appreciate every bit of it, and intend to pay that back by taking meticulous care of my mare and, through pony club, learning everything I possibly can about caring for horses. I will also work tirelessly on my own position and effectiveness so that I will never have a "hail mary" cross country ride. This is how horses and riders are killed. In my opinion, if you are going to event, especially at the upper levels, you should have a thorough knowlege of your horse. I know young riders who go out and win everything, but whose horses are ridden by BNT's most of the year and couldnt tell you anything about the inside of their horse. Many of these riders fall in love with their blue ribbons and forget that they should be taking an active role in their horse, rather than just the trainer telling you what supplements, vets, bits, saddles, boots, etc. you need to see and buy. People need to take an interest in the care of their horse, and realize that without them, we would be galloping around these courses on our own two legs.

[BarbB]

This is interesting. I don't personally know any riders on the NAYRC track.
The young riders (generic term) that I work with are either in H/J land or western sports.

I have been to NAYRC twice and mostly just stood around with my mouth open looking at the high caliber horseflesh.

I did do some casual wondering what was going to happen to the majority of these kids when they were no longer minors and perhaps had to buy their own horses. What I was watching was NOT purchased by any working student or young person period.
I guess I supposed, again mostly in a casual way, that most of them would move on out of the horse world. Many hunter riders age out of juniors and never look back, I guess I assumed the same.

I did not think about the possibility of young riders on high dollar horses being taught that this was the future of the sport, nor the ramifications for the future of the sport if this was the next generation of pros.
It's hard to think things like that when you are just gasping at the horses.

If the bad side of what I saw is having an impact on the sport as a whole, then yes, absolutely, it needs to be changed.
I would like to hear some particulars about this, if anyone cares to share.

*closing mouth, engaging brain*

[eventingfan]

I am sorry, I don't want to offend, but I really have to protest the generalizations of this thread. My daughter has participated at the NAYRC, * and **. She is riding a dressage reject that she has taught everything from the first cross rail to the advanced courses they are running now. She was not an exception on her teams in any way. They were not poor little rich kids getting on a made horses. They were kids that lived and breathed this sport and worked their "you know whats" off to get there. As a family, we worked hard to get her qualified (including mistakes getting that so important passport, frankly the USEF held our hand the entire way) and loved every moment of the experience. I would hate to think that the negative tone of this thread would discourage any hopeful rider.

[JDufort]

Have things changed so much since 3-5 years ago? Those were our NAYRC years, and we certainly had a "by the boot straps" attitude in Area III, and most of our riders were on horses they had brought along with help from wonderfully supportive trainers. While there were a few scrambles to get qualifying runs in, that wasn't about points chasing at all. Just the reality of bringing horses up the levels.

Some of our kids put riding aside for college, but many are still riding today and enjoying the sport. Our YRAP program has really helped prepare the younger riders coming up, and the Mid-South event is a highlight of their season. In Area III, the focus is on preparation and horsemanship - I'm not as close to the program today, but I believe our coaches and adult leaders continue to make this a fun experience for our riders.

[KBG Eventer]

I can see what both sides of the story are saying. I have to say that maybe I turn a blind eye or something, but I think I see more YRs who ARE working hard and even bringing horses along. I know not all of them work for it though.

I will give a couple of examples (not trying to start an argument but trying to give some of ya'll hope that not all is falling apart!) :)...

Rider 1 is trying to get to NAJYRC this year on a horse she has had since Beginner Novice. I don't remember how much they bought him for, but I think it was not the big bucks. He had supposedly done Prelim but there is NO way he had (they bought him in 2002/2003 I believe). He is a smallish TB, and they have come up through the levels together. Lately, they are really booming and winning at some bigger events. Rider has a young, fancy horse that they bought from a BNR fairly recently and she is competing that horse too. They keep their horses at home, and she is a big part of the barn management. Schedules the farrier, vet, etc. herself. Teaches lessons and takes little kids to schooling shows on her old pony and another old western horse they bought which she taught to jump!

Rider 2 has already been to NAJYRC with an experienced, older horse so she does have a supportive family who can back her. She got a young, talented horse a couple of years ago that I think she might be aiming to take this year. He is fancy but I remember he was a little bouncing ball of energy and definitely a baby when she got him. She keeps her horses at her house.

Rider 3 got a younger, talented horse and has gone all the way (moving up to Advanced this year sometime). Has great backing and some sponsorship going. Has horses sent to be ridden/trained. Even coaches other riders a bit. Keeps horses at home.

All those mentioned are in a regular high school and planning on at least a community college so they have something to fall back on (I think at least one of them wants to do have a career in this. Maybe all three).

[3horsemom]

amen to reforming young riders. prohibitivly expensive for those of us who do not live on the east coast where qualifying is simplified just by the number of shows on the calendar.

[c_expresso]

I wish the ages would be extended. My dream is to do NAYRC, except I am turning 18 this year and am not going prelim yet. My horse is older and I don't think he will go intermediate at this point in his life. For me it is hard to believe there are 14 year olds doing one stars and 16 year olds doing 2*s! I feel a little slow :cool:

[Jazzy Lady]

I wish the ages would be extended. My dream is to do NAYRC, except I am turning 18 this year and am not going prelim yet. My horse is older and I don't think he will go intermediate at this point in his life. For me it is hard to believe there are 14 year olds doing one stars and 16 year olds doing 2*s! I feel a little slow :cool:

I know a 13 year old entered at a spring CCI* :eek:

[oreo]

I am sorry, I don't want to offend, but I really have to protest the generalizations of this thread. My daughter has participated at the NAYRC, * and **. She is riding a dressage reject that she has taught everything from the first cross rail to the advanced courses they are running now. She was not an exception on her teams in any way. They were not poor little rich kids getting on a made horses. They were kids that lived and breathed this sport and worked their "you know whats" off to get there. As a family, we worked hard to get her qualified (including mistakes getting that so important passport, frankly the USEF held our hand the entire way) and loved every moment of the experience. I would hate to think that the negative tone of this thread would discourage any hopeful rider.

Your daughter is dong great, it sounds. However, sadly she is not the norm. I think we would all love it if this was the norm.....

[blackwly]

I agree with some posters who have cited kids who have made it to Young Riders by working hard, without super-expensive horses, etc...there are certainly those out there. The issue is that the system is too full of those other horse and rider combinations- the ones where an inexperienced rider is on an advanced school master, who is ridden 4 or 5 x per week by a trainer. Kid gets on to run around the events and get qualified.

I rode in the NAYRC CCI** on a little TB I bought for a few k$ when I was 13 and we were both poking around at novice- so I know it can be done. But a LOT of those kids AREN'T putting the time and work in to learn what horsemanship is all about. The issues I saw (albeit, 10 yrs ago)-

- coaches who were pressured to put certain kids on the team and did so, subsequently getting sponsors (parents) and nice horses sent to them to ride (from said parents when kids went off to school, etc)
- parents who were more invested in the process than their children
- teams where horses were routinely run lame, rules were broken or circumvented throughout the competition
- inappropriate relationships between kids and coaches (I really couldn't make this up)

It seems to me that it's a cultural problem, and one that has been around for awhile. But the issue is more than just high-priced horse flesh and ignorant riders. In my year, there were some serious safety and horsemanship issues - of the 5 horses from my area contesting the CCI**, not one ever competed again following that weekend. I retired mine sound, but the others were permanently injured. Not the way a YR competition is supposed to end.

[Tuckertoo]

I know a 13 year old entered at a spring CCI* :eek:

Isn't the minimum age for Prelim 14? :confused:

[Blugal]

It's "the year of" your 14th birthday... so if you're born on Dec. 10th...

[closetoperfectionfarm]

I am sorry, I don't want to offend, but I really have to protest the generalizations of this thread. My daughter has participated at the NAYRC, * and **. She is riding a dressage reject that she has taught everything from the first cross rail to the advanced courses they are running now. She was not an exception on her teams in any way. They were not poor little rich kids getting on a made horses. They were kids that lived and breathed this sport and worked their "you know whats" off to get there. As a family, we worked hard to get her qualified (including mistakes getting that so important passport, frankly the USEF held our hand the entire way) and loved every moment of the experience. I would hate to think that the negative tone of this thread would discourage any hopeful rider.
I have to agree with this person. Having been in the YR program for years and years , with 2 kids, I have to say that I witness A LOT of jealousy out there aimed at the successful kids. It seems to be human nature to throw stones at those at the top of their game. Sad but true. I know that if I could afford to spend 75,000 on an advanced horse, would I? Hell yes, but since I can't, my kids have grown up riding backyard ponies, gallopping x-c bareback, jumping coops and fox hunting.
My daughter is now a very successful YR ( same horse for 5 years that couldn't get around a Prelim course with it's previous rider BTW)there are stilll those who like to throw stones. I have to say that 90% of the YR that I know work very hard at their sport, riding 6 days a week, while staying on the honor roll in High school.
As I said there is a lot of jealousy and I think it has more to do with lack of talent than lack of funds. What parent in their right mind wouldn't want to buy their kid the best possible partner, if they could. I don't think anyone would say No, i'd rather have you take hard knocks, fall off alot but hey Suzi, keep trying.
We have never spent more than 10,000 on any horse and have been successful on them so each kid, situation is different and a positive approach to a developing YR should be the norm, rather than these negative comments.
Yes, I too know of YR that have just popped up in the last year, fancy fancy horses, training in FL or parents who have gone to Ireland or Germany and bought multiple horses for their kids. I say good for you, but the botgtom line is, ys still gotta be able to ride these, so go for it!

[Little Valkyrie]

I don't think anyone is "throwing stones" at those at the top of this sport and worked their way to get there. The riders I have the problem with are those who have no horsemanship. I don't care if you have a 75,000k advanced horse as long as you can ride it and know about how to care for it. Too many riders have this "because my trainer told me to" additude, and don't really know why they do things certain ways and use certain equipment. I applaude the young riders who are true horsemen, but there are too many who are just along for the ride.

[Jazzy Lady]

Isn't the minimum age for Prelim 14? :confused:

yup. Nobody has stopped her yet! I don't believe she's 14 until next year though. However, she is a terrific little rider on a well suited horse. Not fancy by any means, but she's brought him up and he is a good soul. I just couldn't ever imagine having the skills for it at 13 myself.

[tx3dayeventer]

I did NAYRC two different times a CCI* and the CH**. I am from an area where YR at that level used to be few and far between. At the CCI* we had a full team but when I did the CH** I was THE ONLY RIDER from my Area and got put on a scramble team. I will tell you one thing, those girls from Area I (my scramble) took me in like I had been training with them all year, when in fact I had never even meet any of them. The first day I got there, we all went to the store that they had gotten their jog out outfits and I got mine so we matched and looked like a team. Their head groom helped put butt marks on my mare b/c my groom had no clue and had only ridden at the novice level (nothing wrong with that but my Area assigned me a groom :( they would not let my mother groom for me like she had at all the other 6 3-Days I had done, I think we make a damn fine grooming team, plus she is the only one that knows my super quirky mare's quirks). We worked our butts off and all pulled together. If I was missing something b/c I forgot to pack it or didnt have it, no problem they did and visa versa. We all pulled together in the 10 minute box and the box after B. I had one groom and both of my parents and they had a whole team worth of grooms, etc. Do you think MY Area helped? HA!! Do you think my Area coach showed up in the Box? HA! He wasn't on my payroll and wouldnt coach me b/c he was not my coach back home so I enlisted my scramble team coaches help. Not the point...anyways, We all reported back to each other about the course and you know what? We were the only 2* team to have all 4 clean and fast rides!!!! We had a blast! I was the anchor rider and all 3 of my teammates were there at the last box cheering when I crossed the finish line. That is what NAYRC should be about. It was that much sweeter when we were all standing on the podium together, like a team.

It should not be about who has the made horse. Or who spent more money to get there. My last year to ride was 2002 so I am sure things have changed quite a bit so my post may be way out there but 90% of the other Area's teams were not made of ex-4* horses. They were people who had worked their butts off to get there. The only people I can think of that had ex-4* horses actually won the gold (but by only 0.8) damn that last rail we dropped. Oh well.

Point is.... do I have a point? not sure :D :D Oh yea my point is that for every kid that gets it handed to them there is a kid who has worked their tail off to get there.

[StrawberryFields]

what is the age limit for the NAYRC anyways?

[tx3dayeventer]

21 I think.

[c_expresso]

The CCI* team is 14-18, and the CCI** team is 16-21.

[fooler]

Although the USEA/FEI/USEF had a good idea when developing the Young Riders program, to develop the riders of tomorrow, they forgot one vital issue... HORSEMANSHIP. As my mom said, "To ride without knowlege is to simply be a passenger". I once aspired to be a member of the Young Rider's team, but soon realized that the funds necessary are astronomical, and that the safety and well-being of my horse could be severely compromised for the sake of points. Although I do have goals to make it to the top of this sport, I will not ruin my horse to do so. I will sit at training level until I feel that my horse is ready, and not move up one second before I feel she is ready. I recognize the support my parents give me, and appreciate every bit of it, and intend to pay that back by taking meticulous care of my mare and, through pony club, learning everything I possibly can about caring for horses. I will also work tirelessly on my own position and effectiveness so that I will never have a "hail mary" cross country ride. This is how horses and riders are killed. In my opinion, if you are going to event, especially at the upper levels, you should have a thorough knowlege of your horse. I know young riders who go out and win everything, but whose horses are ridden by BNT's most of the year and couldnt tell you anything about the inside of their horse. Many of these riders fall in love with their blue ribbons and forget that they should be taking an active role in their horse, rather than just the trainer telling you what supplements, vets, bits, saddles, boots, etc. you need to see and buy. People need to take an interest in the care of their horse, and realize that without them, we would be galloping around these courses on our own two legs.

The flip side of this is the horse owners who look for YR's to put on their UL horses. I watched that for a couple of years at my old barn. The BO had a very nice home-bred that was a solid 1* horse. They ran through a couple of YR's specifically to go to NAYRC's. And yes, I heard them tell the YR (new to eventing) to just stay out of the horse's way and let it do its job.
So both YR's and horse owners can be caught up on the NAYRC's merry-go-round.

Good luck to you Little Valkyrie, you sound like what I want eventing's future to sound.

[oreo]

I am sorry, I don't want to offend, but I really have to protest the generalizations of this thread. My daughter has participated at the NAYRC, * and **. She is riding a dressage reject that she has taught everything from the first cross rail to the advanced courses they are running now. She was not an exception on her teams in any way. They were not poor little rich kids getting on a made horses. They were kids that lived and breathed this sport and worked their "you know whats" off to get there. As a family, we worked hard to get her qualified (including mistakes getting that so important passport, frankly the USEF held our hand the entire way) and loved every moment of the experience. I would hate to think that the negative tone of this thread would discourage any hopeful rider.

Can you share the name of that horse with us? I'm nosey, I know, but I like to look at records and see if there are patterns.

thanks!

[oreo]

amen to reforming young riders. prohibitivly expensive for those of us who do not live on the east coast where qualifying is simplified just by the number of shows on the calendar.

Oh believe me its really not that simple. Yes, we have almost no miles to go to compete, but anyone making the NAYRC team from area 2 (which is where we are) is riding a seriously expensive horse. Like seriously expensive - except Nate Chambers and Rollie, who have been together since Rollie was a green bean. Everyone else is riding something that could pay for my barn and house :confused:

In fact, some of them are riding two or three beasties that could each individually pay for my barn and house.... sigh

[3horsemom]

oreo,
i just meant the logistics of getting to shows are simple in some areas. many of us have long drives and a short season (4 horse trials in a season here).
nothing is simple when it comes to eventing at the * and ** levels.
good luck in your riding.

[poltroon]

It is always a challenge to meet a goal that has a tight time window.

That said, there are some very successful graduates of the program. The pair that comes to mind is Jessica Heidemann and French Twist (http://www.theequestrianchannel.com/id22.html) who not only did well at NAYRC 3 years in a row, but ended up at Rolex.

[tx3dayeventer]

How bout Clark Montgomery? Gold at NAYRC and Rolex, what 2 or 3 times? Fair Hill Markham Trophy, Red Hills CIC-W***, etc etc

or Sarah Hansel....Ind Silver at NAYRC, Team Silver at NAYRC (only by 0.8) and now doing Rolex.

[StrawberryFields]

:eek: 14-18 for the *? I'm 17 already! looks like my chances are gone. :no:

[Innfilly]

Just want to make it clear, am not trying to "throw stones" here.

I've known most of the Area II YRs over the past couple years, as me and my (now Intermediate level) mare have been slowly working our way up. Most of them are friendly, great, well intentioned and DO work very hard. Yet I still feel sometimes that there is a disconnect between their riding and management. I see it in things like running their horses 'round an Intermediate level cross country when the ground is like concrete because its one of the NAYRC selection trials. Not only running them, but making the time, when they're still months away from their CCI. Then when the horses get sore a few days later, get the vet out and inject every joint that moves, and then go to the next horse trials to do it all over again. Its not that they're trying to use their horses like that, but they don't know any other way. The vet says its fine, the horse jogs sound (for now), so they see no reason not to go for it.

There are a lot of complaints about people running their horses all year long, going to horse trials every week or every other week and not giving the horses required rest. If we want that mentality to change (and I think it needs to!), then the younger generations are where we need to start.

I've been tremendously fortunate to have trainers who put horsemanship above going to things like NAYRC. That isn't to say that I haven't made mistakes, had scary rides, or made bad judgement calls, but you better believe Jimmy Wofford gave me a good talking to thereafter... and it made a great impression on me and I took those lessons to heart. I'll be 21 the end of this year, likely won't do the whole YR thing again, but I've got a sound 17 year old mare who loves her job and is a joy to work with. She probably has a couple CCIs left in her, and it would be great to do them with her, but only so long as she's healthy and loving it as much as I.

Mainly, I would wish for there to be less of a time crunch on these riders. The pressure right now seems to be compete compete compete and move up as soon as you can. To me, that seems just as dangerous and unwise as rushing a young horse up through the levels.

[3horsemom]

innfilly,
you have done yourself proud as my granny used to say!
well said.

[Mary in Area 1]

How bout Clark Montgomery? Gold at NAYRC and Rolex, what 2 or 3 times? Fair Hill Markham Trophy, Red Hills CIC-W***, etc etc

or Sarah Hansel....Ind Silver at NAYRC, Team Silver at NAYRC (only by 0.8) and now doing Rolex.

Yes, but how many horses have they gone through???:eek:

[3horsemom]

Yes, but how many horses have they gone through???:eek:

and how about that bankroll?!

[eventingfan]

Can you share the name of that horse with us? I'm nosey, I know, but I like to look at records and see if there are patterns.

thanks!




Snooze Alarm

[gchildean]

Oh believe me its really not that simple. Yes, we have almost no miles to go to compete, but anyone making the NAYRC team from area 2 (which is where we are) is riding a seriously expensive horse. Like seriously expensive - except Nate Chambers and Rollie, who have been together since Rollie was a green bean. Everyone else is riding something that could pay for my barn and house :confused:

In fact, some of them are riding two or three beasties that could each individually pay for my barn and house.... sigh

OK I have to chime in on this. As the Area II YR Coordinator I can Say that Not Everyone is riding horses that are SERIOULSLY expensive. Last year our 1* team had 5 horses that never competed above Prelim. We had 1 that was an old upper level horse but the rider works very hard and does well on ALL of her horses not just the one with the most experience. To Say that ALL the YR s in area II are riding Seriously expensive horses is ignorant. We are lucky to have a large amount of talented horse men and women in this area and I am proud to say that I get to take part in their growth not only as riders but also as horsemen. Our kids worked their butts off last year and continue to do so.
Gwen Dean

[tx3dayeventer]

Yes, but how many horses have they gone through???:eek:

Clark actually took the horse he won the gold at NAYRC ** to Rolex. He makes his won horses he doesnt buy them made like other YR's did.

I have known Clark since we were both 8 or 9 and we grew up showing against each other and he has ALWAYS been a phenomenal rider. He can make just about any horse awesome. As far as going through horses, see sells most of them before he makes it to the top. I know that horse of his Cape Twon he sold to a dressage rider in CA that went all the way to NAYRC in the dressage and he had taken the horse to a **, and Fox In Flight his ex-*** horse was sold to a YR.

And Sarah Hansel...

She got Quiet Man after G&R decided he didn't want to play anymore at the Advanced leveland she has been riding him(QM) up through the levels since 2002. Quiet Man wasnt made either.

[poltroon]

Even the expensive horses still have to be ridden.

It's pretty humbling to get on an expensive 'packer' and find out just how hard it is to ride that horse well. If you are successful, everyone says it was all the horse. If there are any mistakes, then you as the rider let the horse down. It's much higher pressure than riding a horse that you've brought along yourself, that no one expects much from. I've seen smart, capable kids in tears because they weren't instant winners after Mom & Dad made a big investment in a horse. It's not so easy.

People buy expensive horses for YR with the hope their kids will be safe and will get a chance to go within that very short timeframe. I would do it if I had the money. Even so, sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't. But you can learn plenty of lessons from an expensive horse, never fear.

[3horsemom]

Even the expensive horses still have to be ridden.

It's pretty humbling to get on an expensive 'packer' and find out just how hard it is to ride that horse well. If you are successful, everyone says it was all the horse. If there are any mistakes, then you as the rider let the horse down. It's much higher pressure than riding a horse that you've brought along yourself, that no one expects much from. I've seen smart, capable kids in tears because they weren't instant winners after Mom & Dad made a big investment in a horse. It's not so easy.

People buy expensive horses for YR with the hope their kids will be safe and will get a chance to go within that very short timeframe. I would do it if I had the money. Even so, sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't. But you can learn plenty of lessons from an expensive horse, never fear.

you are absolutely right. i have seen many a kid get an experienced(and $$$$$)horse and the parents expect the kid to be successful at the horses level asap, because there is a push to make the yr team. as a rider and a mom i beleive an experienced horse is worth its weight in gold. my daughter is currently riding my new kitchen but at least i know one of them knows what they are doing. i have nooooooooooooo problem w/kids getting an experienced horse, i have a problem when kids are allowed to churn thru horses looking for the packer that can cart them around in spite of themselves in a push to make yr. having said that, i hate when anyone treats horses as disposable items. it is not just yr.

[WakeRider]

Some interesting points.

I competed on the Young Rider Team in 2006, on a pony I bought as a 2 year old, who I could only afford b/c people said he would never have the mental capacity to compete (in the hunter ring let alone eventing). Yet, many of my teammates had similar 'coming up the ranks' stories. 3/4 girls created their own horses, and one girl rode a ** horse, though required LOTS of training/hard work/good riding. None of us were millions... in fact far from it, but our families all deemed this as a once in a lifetime opportunity and sacrifices were made to have this experience. Certainly Young Riders is a drain on EVERYONE'S pocket, but there are still some of us homegrown kids out there still doing the young riders..

Now i have to agree, Hell i compete against them every weekend, that there are way too many daddy Warbucks kids. It becomes even harder for those of us kids who attend college and have to manage good grades, working to pay for expenses/horses, along with riding/competing...when set up against the majority of young riders who attend community college/online classes/or 'train' for a living. Thanks, but I'm forced to live in the real world. It is really frustrating for me to come up against these fancy imports who cost more than i will EVER be able to spend on a horse. I mean, i'm waiting for Windsome Andante to appear in one of the YOI or JYOP divisions.

Yet I dont think one can rest the blame entirely on young riders. This is a tragedy of every sport... a result of parents having no qualms about spoiling their children. But I do agree that the Young Rider age NEEDS to be extended (take a hint from...I cant believe i'm saying this but PONY CLUB)...because while i would love to do young riders again, and i do have a horse competing intermediate, its near impossible to travel to all the required shows, raise oodles of money/pay out of pocket, attend all the clinics, while hoping my one (as opposed to 3 or even 4 ) upper level horse. It puts so much stress on us riders and horses, because its such an amazing opportunity, its really hard to let it go once and for all.

Bottom Line: We all are spoiled to be competing such amazing horses at such amazing facilities. But, the spoiled kid syndrome is not likely to change anytime soon....but WHO CARES. This is supposed to be fun... and i've learned its just one jump at a time... and despite my love for being competitive... its really just a test of you and your horse against the course. When you forget that, you become just as bad as Daddy Warbucks, Jr.

[BigRuss1996]

As a YR sponsor I can say that I hope that this isn't really true. If these kids can ALL afford such expensive horses then why can't the parents afford coats, and why can't they afford to sent their kids across the country to compete? Why do they need sponsors at all...or is the sponsorship just for USEA for the program itself? I was under the impression that the majority of these kids all worked really hard and were financially struggling to do this. I am sending in an email with questions as I now want to know why I am paying $$ for stuff for kids who can afford multiple 75k horses.
If this thread is wrong it is potentially very damaging for the YR's program as other sponsors like myself could read it and feel they too may be wasting their $$.

[closetoperfectionfarm]

As a YR sponsor I can say that I hope that this isn't really true. If these kids can ALL afford such expensive horses then why can't the parents afford coats, and why can't they afford to sent their kids across the country to compete? Why do they need sponsors at all...or is the sponsorship just for USEA for the program itself? I was under the impression that the majority of these kids all worked really hard and were financially struggling to do this. I am sending in an email with questions as I now want to know why I am paying $$ for stuff for kids who can afford multiple 75k horses.
If this thread is wrong it is potentially very damaging for the YR's program as other sponsors like myself could read it and feel they too may be wasting their $$.

Part of what you say is true. BUT, each Area, even the known "deep pockets" areas of II need their sponsors to help with the huge costs of sending teams to NAJYRC.
Being in Colorado this year and with the high cost of gas and diesel, it will be higher than ever and it usually costs between 6-9000 per rider to go to to the NAJYRC whereever they are! This is an accurate figure that was discussed a few years back at a national YR meeting BTW by all the areas coordinators, so don't freak out anyone.
As to the fancy horses, YES, it is very true, there are several kids out there who have multiple horses and since these new horses aren't making it for their kids, as in winning or qualifing, guess what... the kid is now getting a NEW horse that is guaranteed to pack around the ** so she can be on the team. This has been the case for years and years though in the YR program and as I said before, if your parents can afford it, you still have to ride these packers.
Given the cost this year though , I have talked to many many kids from the east and I don't think there will be alot going, sponsors or not.
I think it is supposed to be in Ky next year though so maybe the cost of gas will be down by then too and we will have a real NAJYRC with full teams form all of the areas. Last year's ** was really small.

[eloquence09]

Pony club raised it's age limit to 25 to give people more time to get to the 'A'. I think it would make sense for YR to do the same thing. 25 is still young and plus I think that makes it more fair for those of us who want to pursue an education. I am planning to take a year off after I graduate college to do horses full time and it would be great if I wouldn't be aged out of YR by then, I think it would be a cool experience.

[gchildean]

O.K. I feel like Area II is really getting blasted for things that are completely unfounded. I have been Area II YR Coordinator for 2 years now and have had the privilege of working with great kids with good families. I can tell you for a fact that NO ONE trying for the NAJYRC this year are riding $75,000 horses. Those that are riding horses with previous experience, which their is only one, has only helped their riding ability and growth as a horseman. Frankly, I am sick of the negative comments on this thread. It is only hurting the reputation of a great and needed program. Yes, there are exceptions, but I have yet to come across them. Every area has their own selection process with knowledgable selectors who take many things into consideration for selecting a team. The comment about "buying a way onto the team" is not only ignorant but insulting. My co coordinator and I work extremely hard along with the YRs to raise funds and procure sponsors in order to off set the cost of going to NAJYRC. If we are unable to reach our financial goal, then their will be many kids who will be unable to atain their dream of going. We like to have sponsors for items which aren't neccessarily essential but we view them as rewards for the hard work that goes into making a team. If we are unable to get sponsors for these types of things then we just don't have them. I do this for the love of the sport as a volunteer and take great pride in what I do not only for the kids and their fabulous families but for the Area and the sport. All this negativity is leaving a sour taste in many mouths. The program isn't perfect, but the majority of kids and families involved in the program are good horsemen/women and work for everything they have. I apologize for the long post, but I just needed to vent. Thanks for listening.

[BigRuss1996]

Thank you Gwen....

I also just got an email back answering my questions and it appears this whole thread is a gross exageration and is VERY inacurate. I think whoever the OP is and those of you going on and on about the "rich" kids that only make the YR teams should be ashamed of themselves. As a matter of fact I think you should buck up and make a donation to your local area YR's. I plan to continue my support and I think it is terrible that people come on here and pass judgement on these kids. I have seen their budget (at least for our area) and believe me they need all the help they can get.
As for raising the age... that part was constructive and might be a good idea as it would give them more time. I also think they need to make a rule that riders can not be on teams for areas other then the one they live in.





O.K. I feel like Area II is really getting blasted for things that are completely unfounded. I have been Area II YR Coordinator for 2 years now and have had the privilege of working with great kids with good families. I can tell you for a fact that NO ONE trying for the NAJYRC this year are riding $75,000 horses. Those that are riding horses with previous experience, which their is only one, has only helped their riding ability and growth as a horseman. Frankly, I am sick of the negative comments on this thread. It is only hurting the reputation of a great and needed program. Yes, there are exceptions, but I have yet to come across them. Every area has their own selection process with knowledgable selectors who take many things into consideration for selecting a team. The comment about "buying a way onto the team" is not only ignorant but insulting. My co coordinator and I work extremely hard along with the YRs to raise funds and procure sponsors in order to off set the cost of going to NAJYRC. If we are unable to reach our financial goal, then their will be many kids who will be unable to atain their dream of going. We like to have sponsors for items which aren't neccessarily essential but we view them as rewards for the hard work that goes into making a team. If we are unable to get sponsors for these types of things then we just don't have them. I do this for the love of the sport as a volunteer and take great pride in what I do not only for the kids and their fabulous families but for the Area and the sport. All this negativity is leaving a sour taste in many mouths. The program isn't perfect, but the majority of kids and families involved in the program are good horsemen/women and work for everything they have. I apologize for the long post, but I just needed to vent. Thanks for listening.

[Mary in Area 1]

I would like to see the NAYRC NOT be an FEI competition.

Flutie


THIS is the most intelligent comment made on this thread. It is the REASON all the other issues exist. It is the root of the AGE problem, it is the root of the COST problem, etc.

Can we change this??? I can only remember 2 times that the winner of the 2* went to the Eur. YR Champs, so what is the point of the FEI running it?

[gchildean]

We have acctually have brought up the idea of raising the age in many, many meetings. We basically were told that we would have to bring it up with FEI, but don't get your hopes up. We went through this last year when they removed the CCI non-championship division (another FEI thing). I feel that not just for yrs but for the usea as a whole, that the age to start competing prelim should be 16 not 14 and the age for intermediate should be 18 not 16. We have way to many kids that are very young and couldn't possibly have the experience they need to ride at that level. The other issue I have with the FEI (or FUI) is that the qualification period for the NAJYRC is 12 months. When you are trying to qualify in only 12 months it really takes its toll. So to OREO who stated that these kids are "chasing points' really don't have a choice in the matter since the window of opportunity is quite small.

[gchildean]

Because it is international it must be FEI. As eventers we get the short end of the stick when it comes to the FEI.

[gchildean]

Sorry about multiple posts. Can't seem to get everything out in one. Because of the European championships being FEI they lump us all in the same pot. It also runs under IOC rules. As long as this is still the case, it will never change. Fighting FEI on anything is like trying to take your dogs favorite chew toy away. Nearly impossible and you usually end up getting bitten.

[poltroon]

People always assume when you see a nice looking horse going around smoothly that it's an expensive packer. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't - but it's the rider's job to make it look like an expensive packer. :)

What about adding a parallel competiton for training level? That might be a lot more attainable for young riders, and give them a chance to try for national recognition without maybe having to push their horses and their experience quite as far. Obviously it would not be an FEI competition, but maybe it could be held the same weekend on the same grounds.

And as for other changes, first, petitioning the FEI is I'm sure an unpleasant and annoying process, but they've had plenty of deaths in Europe as well. Perhaps they'll be receptive. If not, it doesn't have to be an FEI sanctioned event. It can be the USEF Eventing Talent Search instead.

[Blugal]

Without commenting on other aspects, and I am not opposed to changing the current structure, the one good thing about having it under FEI is that there is a body of rules that apply to all countries wishing to compete, not just the US.

[VicarageVee]

O.K. I feel like Area II is really getting blasted for things that are completely unfounded.

And have you seen the horses coming out of Area VI???
:lol:
Just kidding, I love our YRs, even the ones with mucho dinero ponies work their behinds off, and most are brilliant and sensitive horsepeople, IMO.

[closetoperfectionfarm]

Agree with Gwen.

There is a definite misperception out there. I know that all of the YR that I know and there are PLENTY, do not fall into this" special" group of $$$$ horses but it does exist, let's face it.
But as my Mom said to me growing up riding and competing.
"Let your riding do your talking".

[alliemare]

As a YR who competed on the Area II YR team in 2007,

I would also like to back up Gwen and Audrey is saying that many of the riders on the team were not sitting on $75,000 horses. Actually, a fair number of the riders were on horses who did not have experience past the prelim level and had been brought through the levels by only the young rider. I can think of 3 horses aiming for the CCI* team that were purchased for under $10,000 and started at the novice level.

Many of us come from typical families that do their best to support us in our dreams, but are in no way paying for everything. Each and everyone of us worked out butts off with fundraising to just make it to the YR camp and those that didnt, still shared in the same passion and drive needed to succeed as a team. And without the help and dedication of our wonderful coordinators, we would not have been able to go. (love you gwen and audrey!)

The summer of Young Riders was probably the best summer of my life. I will always look back on the memories fondly. Yeah, it was filled with many ups and downs (just as everything involving horses is) but in the end, I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. I developed some of the best friendships with riders all up and down the east coast, I strengthened the relationship with my lovely mare, experienced team competition for the first time, and I ran around a field with a broom on my forehead. ;)

So far, this post has really been giving YRs a negative vibe. And I really hope that anyone thinking about trying for the team doesnt give up hope, because in the end, it was defiantly worth it. :)

[KBG Eventer]

People always assume when you see a nice looking horse going around smoothly that it's an expensive packer. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't - but it's the rider's job to make it look like an expensive packer. :)

What about adding a parallel competiton for training level? That might be a lot more attainable for young riders, and give them a chance to try for national recognition without maybe having to push their horses and their experience quite as far. Obviously it would not be an FEI competition, but maybe it could be held the same weekend on the same grounds.

And as for other changes, first, petitioning the FEI is I'm sure an unpleasant and annoying process, but they've had plenty of deaths in Europe as well. Perhaps they'll be receptive. If not, it doesn't have to be an FEI sanctioned event. It can be the USEF Eventing Talent Search instead.

Area III sends Young Rider teams at Novice, Training, Prelim, and CCI* (I believe it is a long format) to the Midsouth Team Challenge in October each year. It is a great idea!

[gchildean]

Way to make us get all teary. We love and miss you too. Hope you have a good season with that lovely mare.

[oreo]

[QUOTE=gchildean;3154625]O.K. I feel like Area II is really getting blasted for things that are completely unfounded. I have been Area II YR Coordinator for 2 years now and have had the privilege of working with great kids with good families. I can tell you for a fact that NO ONE trying for the NAJYRC this year are riding $75,000 horses. QUOTE]


Umm - I hate to disagree, because I really appreciate all you are doing for Area II YRs, but I'm not sure you are really on the ball here. I know several YRs that are on the "YR" burn, on way more than $75k horses. And they have burned thru more than one in their efforts to make the "team". You may not like this, but IMHO, there is almost NO way for a talented YR to make the Area II team without a made horse these days.

Nate has done it but Rollie is an exceptionally talented horse who loves Nate - and his mom will tell you they had no clue as to what they had, and it was really a fluke that they bought him. Not to take away from Nate and his partnership with Rollie.

The problem I hear in Area II is that talented kids aren't even TRYING to get on the team anymore unless they have a made (read expensive) horse. They are just discouraged by getting beaten every weekend by the ones they know are on packers, and so don't even bother to apply, assuming that they won't be considered. Not what I thought NAYRC was supposed to be about.

[oreo]

We have acctually have brought up the idea of raising the age in many, many meetings. We basically were told that we would have to bring it up with FEI, but don't get your hopes up. We went through this last year when they removed the CCI non-championship division (another FEI thing). I feel that not just for yrs but for the usea as a whole, that the age to start competing prelim should be 16 not 14 and the age for intermediate should be 18 not 16. We have way to many kids that are very young and couldn't possibly have the experience they need to ride at that level. The other issue I have with the FEI (or FUI) is that the qualification period for the NAJYRC is 12 months. When you are trying to qualify in only 12 months it really takes its toll. So to OREO who stated that these kids are "chasing points' really don't have a choice in the matter since the window of opportunity is quite small.

Yes! Please how can we fix this? PM me or reply. I'll be there with bells on :winkgrin: we have to think about the horses first, which is the thing that's really annoying me right now.

[Eventingjunkie]

[QUOTE=gchildean;3154625]O.K. I feel like Area II is really getting blasted for things that are completely unfounded. I have been Area II YR Coordinator for 2 years now and have had the privilege of working with great kids with good families. I can tell you for a fact that NO ONE trying for the NAJYRC this year are riding $75,000 horses. QUOTE]


Umm - I hate to disagree, because I really appreciate all you are doing for Area II YRs, but I'm not sure you are really on the ball here. I know several YRs that are on the "YR" burn, on way more than $75k horses. And they have burned thru more than one in their efforts to make the "team". You may not like this, but IMHO, there is almost NO way for a talented YR to make the Area II team without a made horse these days.


The problem I hear in Area II is that talented kids aren't even TRYING to get on the team anymore unless they have a made (read expensive) horse. They are just discouraged by getting beaten every weekend by the ones they know are on packers, and so don't even bother to apply, assuming that they won't be considered. Not what I thought NAYRC was supposed to be about.

Call me naive, but we live in Area II and my child is not riding a $75K horse, however, I believe she has the talent, focus and drive to make our area's Young Riders Team in the next couple of years. Instead of pouting and saying how unfair life is when she sees her peers riding well on their beautiful horses (no matter how much or little they paid for them) she watches their rides, tries to understand what they are doing right and wrong, and then focuses back in on what she herself needs to do to give her best ride.

We have made an effort to get to know teens around her age riding prelim. We know quite a few who are making the effort to qualify for Young Riders, and I can tell you that not one is riding a horse they paid over $25K (BTW, I do not think $25K is exactly peanuts either). All these youths do quite well in the standings and have a good chance at making the team. Why do we have to bash them and say it's because their parents have paid lots of money to put them on a packer? Give the kids their due. They go out there and ride every day and look after their horse's needs just like everyone else. Not all of them are perfect, but they are kids after all, and human as well.

As far as the ages are concerned, I guess I am one of those horrible mothers that thinks it is okay for her fourteen year old to ride prelim. If she is prepared at fourteen, then why is that any worse than allowing her to ride prelim at sixteen? She has been riding since she was three years old, has very good instructors who say she is ready, has ridden fourteen clear cross country rounds at training level and has qualified for AEC's at Training Level on two different horses in the last two years. Yes, I am her mother and I am biased, but I think the kid is ready to move on. Increasing the age is arbitrary in my opinion. I have seen more out of control adult riders than Junior riders out on cross country.

However, I do feel that the upper age limit for NAJYRC 1 star should be raised to 21.

[pwynnnorman]

Training level? That sounds like a great idea--good for organizers to insure entries, good for juniors who may not have the time (before aging out) or horseflesh, etc. Would it be an organizational issue to have a non-FEI division alongside? (Gosh, I'd love to see an all-pony junior team at NAYRC someday! I bet I could get sponsors for that. :D)

[not again]

Recently I donated breedings to two different stallions to benefit the Area II young riders fund. Since my two daughters went to Young Riders numerous times I thought a give-back was more than timely and appropriate. Imagine my surprise when both my contact information and the correct fee for the frozen semen was down on the web site incorrectly. And never corrected. Also, I never received any form, paperwork or pdf file that was aimed at donors. Since I did get at least one other person to donate, I can only hope they received better treatment, and that such a fund raiser will be more "satisfying" to the donor in the future.
There are all kinds of kids out there: brats, angels, well-heeled and broke. I certainly don't want to start "rating" teenagers before I donate. I do however, hope that the support system behind fund raising has better infrastructure.

[boppin along]

I think the USEA or USEF should take over the NAJYRC.
I also think the CCI* should also be 14-21 BUT the CCI** should also stay 16-21.
Reason being that yes, most kids have SCHOOL, either high school and or college.
Also,most kids do not have ** horses at this age BUT have solid * horses that need a few years to get in the qualifications at the * level. These kids should not be "aged out" at 18 because of this.
It is extremely difficult to get qualified for the ** in one year unless you are fortunate enough to ship your horse and kid to Florida for the season, which is prohibitively expensive for 90% of the families of YR out there, Area II included.
Reality check, look at the list of YR competeing now at Intermediate and tell me that they are not on $$$ horses.
Having said that, there are of course the exceptions.
I wish that the USEA could help offset the enormous rising costs of sending teams to the NAJYRC. It has become out of reach for most families, even those precieved as having money.

[gchildean]

"Umm - I hate to disagree, because I really appreciate all you are doing for Area II YRs, but I'm not sure you are really on the ball here. I know several YRs that are on the "YR" burn, on way more than $75k horses. And they have burned thru more than one in their efforts to make the "team". You may not like this, but IMHO, there is almost NO way for a talented YR to make the Area II team without a made horse these days."

In reference to the above statement from oreo...... I don't know who you are, but to my knowledge you have no authority or involvement in the Area II yr program. I am the co-coordinator with Gwen and your statements are unfounded and unsubstantiated. And frankly, there beginning to anger me. You do not have access to our membership records and do NOT HAVE A CLUE as to what is going on in OUR PROGRAM. It is people like you who sit back behind a screen with a surname and trash programs that are worked on a volunteer bases by people who want to make a difference and ruin the image of such programs with your OPINIONS. It makes no difference to us or the selectors how much money one paid for there horses. Even a experience and expensive horse still has to be ridden. We select riders based on performance at events, training sessions, vet evaluation and also on their sportsmanship and horsemanship. All of the kids are treated the same no matter their financial status. And I am sorry but you are VERY MISINFORMED if you think that the majority of our kids burn through horses and chase points and buy their way on to the team. We as coordinators are not going to stand for people misconstruing and trashing our program or our kids. If you have something constructive to say feel free to call me, any of you, at 910-315-3032. Otherwise shut your mouths and stop spreading trash about something you have no business discussing.
Audrey Wiggins
Coordinator Area II YR

[Eventingjunkie]

I think we all are entitled to discuss this, however, people do get carried away with blanket statements, that are not necessarily true.

[oreo]

[QUOTE=gchildean;3156566
In reference to the above statement from oreo...... I don't know who you are, but to my knowledge you have no authority or involvement in the Area II yr program. I am the co-coordinator with Gwen and your statements are unfounded and unsubstantiated. And frankly, there beginning to anger me. You do not have access to our membership records and do NOT HAVE A CLUE as to what is going on in OUR PROGRAM. It is people like you who sit back behind a screen with a surname and trash programs that are worked on a volunteer bases by people who want to make a difference and ruin the image of such programs with your OPINIONS. It makes no difference to us or the selectors how much money one paid for there horses. Even a experience and expensive horse still has to be ridden. We select riders based on performance at events, training sessions, vet evaluation and also on their sportsmanship and horsemanship. All of the kids are treated the same no matter their financial status. And I am sorry but you are VERY MISINFORMED if you think that the majority of our kids burn through horses and chase points and buy their way on to the team. We as coordinators are not going to stand for people misconstruing and trashing our program or our kids. If you have something constructive to say feel free to call me, any of you, at 910-315-3032. Otherwise shut your mouths and stop spreading trash about something you have no business discussing.
Audrey Wiggins
Coordinator Area II YR[/QUOTE]

Audrey, as you state, you don't know who I am, so I think your opinions about my opinions are at least, unfounded. I watch every YR horse and rider intently AND apparently know more about them than you (sorry to be blunt, but its part of my job to watch them.) I deliberately don't post who I am.

And to be frank your reply annoyed me, although I can't say it "angered" me. What does "anger" me is the defensive attitude abut NAYRC. It may not matter to you what the rider paid for a horse that will get them to NAYRC. It also may not matter to you whether they burn through horses. That wasn't the point of my orignal post. It matters to me. My point was about HORSEMANSHIP and figuring out who is a rider vs a passenger - yes even at NAYRC. And figuring out whic riders to NAYRC will actually be competitive.

I do understand your sensitivity to being a volunteer program, but as someone who probably spends 500+ hours (I don't keep track) per year of free volunteering to promote this sport, I'm disappointed in your post.

[closetoperfectionfarm]

I think the USEA or USEF should take over the NAJYRC.
I also think the CCI* should also be 14-21 BUT the CCI** should also stay 16-21.
Reason being that yes, most kids have SCHOOL, either high school and or college.
Also,most kids do not have ** horses at this age BUT have solid * horses that need a few years to get in the qualifications at the * level. These kids should not be "aged out" at 18 because of this.
It is extremely difficult to get qualified for the ** in one year unless you are fortunate enough to ship your horse and kid to Florida for the season, which is prohibitively expensive for 90% of the families of YR out there, Area II included.
Reality check, look at the list of YR competeing now at Intermediate and tell me that they are not on $$$ horses.
Having said that, there are of course the exceptions.
I wish that the USEA could help offset the enormous rising costs of sending teams to the NAJYRC. It has become out of reach for most families, even those precieved as having money. Well stated Boppin

[c_expresso]

I don't know what Area II some of you guys are talking about, but the Area II I know does not have all its team members sitting on made $75k horses.

I personally know a YR who did the 1* team last year on a horse she trained herself from novice up... and I think she wants to do the 2* team this year.

My trainer rode for Area II 2* team on a horse she made herself, from off the track up (when she was 19).

A friend of a friend rode on the 2* team last year on a horse she completely trained herself.

[poltroon]

Audrey, as you state, you don't know who I am, so I think your opinions about my opinions are at least, unfounded. I watch every YR horse and rider intently AND apparently know more about them than you (sorry to be blunt, but its part of my job to watch them.) I deliberately don't post who I am.

And to be frank your reply annoyed me, although I can't say it "angered" me. What does "anger" me is the defensive attitude abut NAYRC. It may not matter to you what the rider paid for a horse that will get them to NAYRC. It also may not matter to you whether they burn through horses. That wasn't the point of my orignal post. It matters to me. My point was about HORSEMANSHIP and figuring out who is a rider vs a passenger - yes even at NAYRC. And figuring out whic riders to NAYRC will actually be competitive.

I do understand your sensitivity to being a volunteer program, but as someone who probably spends 500+ hours (I don't keep track) per year of free volunteering to promote this sport, I'm disappointed in your post.

If you read what she wrote, it obviously does matter to her that the kids on the team are good horsemen, that the program is a force for good in eventing, and she is saying that the horses named to the team generally weren't expensive.

Maybe you're talking about people who are trying for the team and not making it (yet)? Maybe you're talking about a different year?

[boppin along]

Just opened my Chronicle and there is a big ad for the Colorado Horse Park FOR SALE.
What does this mean for the NAYRC this summer, anyone know????

[RAyers]

No problems. The NAYRC will be held as scheduled. Yes, the horse park is for sale.

Reed

[vineyridge]

I met a YR who was aiming for a team. She was 15 or 16, and she and her parents and trainer were going to go to Ireland to find a horse. Whether they were going to buy a packer or one that she had to train herself, I do not know; but importing a horse for a kid seems rather excessive to me.

[alliemare]

I met a YR who was aiming for a team. She was 15 or 16, and she and her parents and trainer were going to go to Ireland to find a horse. Whether they were going to buy a packer or one that she had to train herself, I do not know; but importing a horse for a kid seems rather excessive to me.

Yes, but it must be understood that "aiming" for the team and actually being held in "contention" for the team are two completely different things. If I had a dollar for every time a YR friend told me they were aiming for the CCI* team (and had only just moved up to training) maybe I could be sitting on one of those $75k horses....

Thats also where I feel like Oreo may be a little off. Are the horse/rider combos you are watching actually in contention for the team? (ie - are they fully qualified or very close to being qualified?) because, yeah, Im sure there are a number of YRs in Area II that *are* sitting on 75,000 horses (and Ive probably competed against a fair number of them) but as Gwen and Audrey have already stated, the Area II YR team is not made up of $75k horses, and you do not need to "buy" your way onto the team with one of these horses. Everyone trying for a spot has the same chance as anyone else.

I guess I could look at this another way and be thankful that you are looking at our teams and thinking that the quality of animals competing is on the same level as a $75k import....