What Eventing used to be.

[His Greyness]

I have dug out of my archives movie clips of the first event at which I was a spectator.

1975 Ledyard Farm Horse Trials - Cross Country. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_d3YjMo5SE)

Keep in mind these were taken with a Regular 8mm clockwork movie camera. I will add some clips of stadium jumping later. These are now on YouTube at:

1975 Ledyard Farm Horse Trials - Stadium Jumping (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h-hTvl0szE)

Ledyard was an Advanced Horse Trial. You can compare it with Badminton seven years later in this movie I took:

1982 Badminton Horse Trials - Cross Country - Phase D. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4830798433323996010&hl=en)

For completeness, since someone started a thread on Eventing Dressage, here's the video of the movie showing the dressage tests. Google Video Uploader or Converter hiccupped in a couple of places during the video.

1982 Badminton Horse Trials - Dressage. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1059868973489448927)

[Lori T]

Very cool! THanks for posting. I can't wait for Jen to see these after she wakes up! (tempted to go wake her!)

[sidepasser]

I remember the courses like that, they were inviting, flowing, galloping fences.

That was the era when I began jump judging, and I miss that very much. The riders were incredibly athletic, many passed by my fence smiling and the horses seem to enjoy the gallops. I liked the fences that looked like something you would find out in the fields..stone walls, logs, ditches, banks and drops.

Brings back many FOND memories and is what got my family interested in eventing. Thank you very much for posting that video, I have bookmarked it and will watch it again. I did a search the other day for this type of video to show people what eventing USED to look like, but was unsuccessful in my search. Now I have something to show them thanks to you.

Anyone else have old videos they could post? Remember, the younger generation of eventers have likely not seen this type of course before, it might stir them to go "yeah, WE could do that!!!"

[denny]

That`s pretty cool to see Royal Core! She was by the great sport horse sire Cormac, and out of a daughter of Bonne Nuit. I bought her as a broodmare in 1972, along with her yearling son Core Buff, resold her to Essie Perkins, who bred her once, then loaned her to the USET.
She, her son Core Buff, and her granddaughter, Chestry Oak (by Core Buff) all jumped the "infamous coffin".
I wonder how many intergenerational stories there are like that?
I have her great grandaughter, Mistry Oak, (Babamist x Chestry Oak) and her great great grandson, Celtic Oak (Formula One x Mistry Oak) here in So Pines.
Quite a few of us who rode those old Ledyards are still at it, and Bruce Davidson and Beth Perkins are still riding advanced!!

[Auburn]

His Greyness,

Thank you for sharing that clip. It brings back so many good memories. I was looking at the riders and how they rode with much shorter reins, than riders today.

Can anyone explain why?

[snoopy]

MY GOD...I do not know to smile or cry!!!

Okay for us oldtimers...lets play the name game as to who we recognize

I will go first

Bruce and Golden Griffin!!

NEXT:



edited to add: I did not have the volume turned up so did not realize that some riders/horses were named. But even after all these years, I at least remembered golden griffin, which I believe belonged to the USET.

[snoopy]

MY GOD...I do not know to smile or cry!!!

Okay for us oldtimers...lets play the name game as to who we recognize

I will go first

Bruce and Golden Griffin!!

NEXT:



And we all remember the coffin and the swimming pool;)

[denny]

PS --As an interesting sideline, CMP came twice to ride at Ledyard from England, each time got as far as "the infamous Ledyard coffin" and each time had to turn around and go back to England!

[Thomas_1]

I was looking at the riders and how they rode with much shorter reins, than riders today.

Can anyone explain why?


They're not all and in a short clip of a single event it doesn't necessarily mean that its the norm. You'd likely get the same perspective nowadays with a short video clip.

However they are riding at a gallop and so will be altogether adopting a more forward seat with a shorter contact.

[snoopy]

PS --As an interesting sideline, CMP came twice to ride at Ledyard from England, each time got as far as "the infamous Ledyard coffin" and each time had to turn around and go back to England!


Anne and Goodwill did get round once did she not. Sue Hatherly (now sue benson) came as well. And my dear Beth Perkins and Furtive were there that year I believe.

[frugalannie]

Thank you so much, Your Greyness! Watching Ledyard was one of my first introductions to real eventing as well, and that's a great tape (love the camera angles). And great to see horses balanced in a galloping stride.

Thomas, I beg to differ if your point is that the rest of the course wasn't a galloping course. It absolutely was. As a matter of fact, His Greyness's tape shows several of the more complicated combinations.

I had the privilege of riding Prelim at the last Ledyard. Some of the fences shown on the tape were on the course (did I miss seeing Ayer's Sarsaparilla "Once taken, never forsaken"?). The course was very forgiving of a forward horse, but not so much of a horse that was picked at, IMHO. And at least in this neck of the woods, Neil Ayer had a terrific influence on course design resulting in many galloping courses.

I do miss those days, and can't imagine myself jumping Prelim at what I saw of Red Hills.

[Hilary]

Thank you for posting this!

I was 8 in 1975, and my mom signed me up for Pony Club. This was what everyone aspired to do. They showed us clips like this and it seemed entirely reasonable that we would ride like that some day. So we went out on our chubby ponies and galloped as fast as they would go over miniature versions of these fences. (and since my pony was known for having 2 speeds, slow and slower, there was a lot of fantasy going on in my head).

[Thomas_1]

Thomas, I beg to differ if your point is that the rest of the course wasn't a galloping course. It absolutely was. As a matter of fact, His Greyness's tape shows several of the more complicated combinations.

Whoops! My comment was aimed at the mention of riders having short reins. Of course you wouldn't know that because I forgot to include the quote! duhhhhhh ;)

Been back to correct it now.

This posting got me all reminiscent and going back to my old photos. Mine go back to 1960 though!! :(

[magnolia73]

May I ask what level that video is from? The fences look less intimidating- but maybe its the video. Plus, they are all so wide! It looks like a confident horse given a confident ride would have a great run!

Pretty neat.

[GotSpots]

Boy, some of those things are VERTICAL and square in front. Really fun to watch, but not all of course design has evolved for the worse, I'd reckon.

[frugalannie]

Thanks for the clarification, Thomas. Denny may chime in here, but as I recall, many of the riders used to gallop horses at the track. Maybe that's why there are so many with shorter reins.

And GotSpots, if you saw those fences in person, you'd see that many had ground lines, all had rounded top edges, and faces that sloped slightly, but significantly. I agree that they look vertical and square on the tape, however. And there were a few that were more vertical, but again, had rounded edges and the horss generally had a good shot at seeing the width of the fence.

[retreadeventer]

:)))
I think they rode with shorter reins because the horses pulled like trains and didn't ride with quite the hardware they have today, either!
:))) Just amused by the short reins comment! The short format pretty much wiped out the pullers.

[snickerdoodle]

I noticed 3 things.

1. The way everyone was riding. Didn't see anyone sitting down in front of their horses and collecting them for every jump. even at the combintations, water, bank. everyone staying in a nice forward position.

2. The crowds on cross country

3. The last part of the video - slow motion of bruce. Absolutely beautiful.

[CookiePony]

I noticed that they look vertical too, but the horses seem to jump them well. Were there any accident statistics kept in those days? Specifically, stats on rotational falls?

Great video, thanks for sharing!!

[CookiePony]

His Greyness, did you post footage of Badminton in the 80s? I can't find it on YouTube now-- anyone have the link?

[bosox]

Thanks for sharing!

You know---everyone's lower leg was perfect....maybe except for the 2 at the coffin---but even then--quite good!

I did notice the nice open gallop---but someone made this comment:
everyone staying in a nice forward position.

I can tell you that---I noticed as they went to the fence---that they still stayed forward. Even though I am new to eventing....this in NOT what I was taught. I can be up and forward---but I need to sit down before the fence. Thoughts? Why has the current thinking changed?

Why can't we take the BEST of the old style of eventing---and merge it w/the new information we have at our hands today---and make it the best the sport can be? I hear grandparents say--"I never used a carseat w/my kids" Well---Don't you think you would have if you had the information we have today? Of course you would! Let't take the best out of Eventing from yesterday---and merge the safetly aspects of today into the sport and keep moving forward!

Also---I loved seeing all of the foxhunters out on course as outriders. I honestly thought that foxhunting and eventing were just sisters in the sport---and I was corrected by a foxhunter that they are two very distantly related cousins. Maybe--I wasn't sooo far off base when I thought the two sports were closer than cousins.

[Badger]

My god but that was great to see. Thank you for posting it. Galloping and jumping out of stride. :D

[Daydream Believer]

Wow! That brought back some fond memories! Thanks!

[mbarrett]

AWESOME!!!

I loved how the riders rode forward, in a two point right up and over the jump. (Gee, where is the yank and pull, yank and pull, slow down to a canter in place of today?)

All the horses just galloped happily to the fences. The riders were in total control, with invisable aids.

I have an old tape called Riding for Amierica the USET and INSILCO made. I remember seeing it in about 1980 on PBS and I taped it off the TV. I used to watch it all the time.

I think it had three segments, eventing, dressage and show jumping. The eventing portion interviewed many famous riders, Jimmy Wofford, Ralph Hill, Mike Plumb, the chick who rode the Grey Goose, I can't think of her name at the moment.

The tape showed the 1980 Rolex. All the horses and riders galloped freely to the fences. Like the good ole days in the Ledyard tape. I think they showed a couple of wrecks, too. One girl getting dumped at The Head of the Lake, but she popped up, soaking wet and jumped on her horse and away they went! Karen Stives wreck at an early fence was shown. The horse just slipped and down they went.

Also, someone getting fallen on at a fence called the Turning Point, or something like that. It was in the trees. (I remember that fence because it took forever to walk to it since it was WAY out in the sticks.) Anyway, it may have been an early rotational fall, because the horse and rider didn't have enough rpm to get over the fence. The horses front legs didn't clear the top rail and over they went. The rider got up with assistance and walked off with an official. The horse got up and stood there.

I'll have to see if I still have the tape. I'll let you know if it survives. Sorry for hijacking this thread.

[RAyers]

That brings back memories! Even though I rode h/j, we had a XC course at the farm that had many similar fences. Louise McConnell would take us out on a regular basis a part of our lessons.

I did my first XC about 3 years later than the video and this video defines the image I always had of eventing.

Reed

[ctanner]

Amazing!I'm with Snoopy,so I smiled through the tears.

[3horsemom]

thank you. that was so much fun to watch so i can only imagine how much fun that was to ride!
we schooled xc on saturday and all i heard my daughter's trainer say was "staduim canter".

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I can tell you that---I noticed as they went to the fence---that they still stayed forward. Even though I am new to eventing....this in NOT what I was taught. I can be up and forward---but I need to sit down before the fence. Thoughts? Why has the current thinking changed?



It depends on the fence, depends on the rider and depends on the horse. For most of us, we should touch the saddle lightly in front of the fence. I hesitate to say sit down because you really should not be "sitting" with weight in your seat. Your seat is not what sends a horse forward..it is your leg. But as a rider gets more advanced, and a horse more balanced and always in front of the rider's leg....they do not necessarily need to "sit" in front of each fence. Jimmy always uses steeplechase riders as examples. If you watch the MD Hunt cup...where they are jumping 5'+ fences....you will not see any jockey "sitting" in front of any fence and yet the horses will jump up and generally stay balanced to the base of the fences.

Back in the day...most UL riders not only galloped race horses...the rode steeplechase horses and fox hunted regularly. Each helped their xc riding far more then any xc "schooling" most of us do.

[snoopy]

AWESOME!!!

I loved how the riders rode forward, in a two point right up and over the jump. (Gee, where is the yank and pull, yank and pull, slow down to a canter in place of today?)

All the horses just galloped happily to the fences. The riders were in total control, with invisable aids.

I have an old tape called Riding for Amierica the USET and INSILCO made. I remember seeing it in about 1980 on PBS and I taped it off the TV. I used to watch it all the time.

I think it had three segments, eventing, dressage and show jumping. The eventing portion interviewed many famous riders, Jimmy Wofford, Ralph Hill, Mike Plumb, the chick who rode the Grey Goose, I can't think of her name at the moment.

The tape showed the 1980 Rolex. All the horses and riders galloped freely to the fences. Like the good ole days in the Ledyard tape. I think they showed a couple of wrecks, too. One girl getting dumped at The Head of the Lake, but she popped up, soaking wet and jumped on her horse and away they went! Karen Stives wreck at an early fence was shown. The horse just slipped and down they went.

Also, someone getting fallen on at a fence called the Turning Point, or something like that. It was in the trees. (I remember that fence because it took forever to walk to it since it was WAY out in the sticks.) Anyway, it may have been an early rotational fall, because the horse and rider didn't have enough rpm to get over the fence. The horses front legs didn't clear the top rail and over they went. The rider got up with assistance and walked off with an official. The horse got up and stood there.

I'll have to see if I still have the tape. I'll let you know if it survives. Sorry for hijacking this thread.



That "chick" is Kim Walnes....I think her story and accomplisments warrents name recognition.

[snoopy]

Amazing!I'm with Snoopy,so I smiled through the tears.



Yes well seeing this just breaks my heart, seeing what the sport has evolved into today. This is why we must keep the pressure on for change in the sport. Obviously we cannot go back to these days, but we have moved so far away from what was that I do not recognize the sport anymore.

[hey101]

That "chick" is Kim Wanes....I think her story and accomplisments warrents name recognition.

I thought it was "Walnes"?

[Kanga]

What a great tape!!

The second horse on the tape (the Appy), I am 99% sure was a horse named Just for Fun at that time ridden by a man named Jerry Richardson. This was one of the first horses that I ever evented. I rode her for about 3 years in the early 80's. Jerry was my DC in Pony Club and had her on loan to me. She was an amazing x/c horse.

Did that just bring back some memories! Thanks for showing us all again why we started this sport in the first place. I wish it could go back to those days, boy was it fun!!!!

[caevent]

That looked like so much fun to ride. My generation comes a few years after 1975, but when I was a kid I obsessed over all of those riders from the le Goff years and aspired to one day ride like them. Unfortunately, today's courses don't inspire quite the same feelings. It's more like "Hmm, do I really want to put my horse through that?":(

[snoopy]

I thought it was "Walnes"?


Yes, did not proof read before posting...:eek:

[Jealoushe]

Thank you so much for posting! The horses seem to be more careful back then, I still the majority of breeds being used are having an influence on jumping.

[Catalina]

Wow, that was awesome and those horses were really booking along.

[mbarrett]

Snoopy, thank you, your memory is better than mine. It was Kim Walnes. I couldn't think for the life of me what her name was! No slight intended. She's one of the greats in my book.

[snoopy]

Snoopy, thank you, your memory is better than mine. It was Kim Walnes. I couldn't think for the life of me what her name was! No slight intended. She's one of the greats in my book.

No slight taken. I am in contact with her often and it truly is a wonderful story, both in front and behind the scenes.

[mbj]

Was that Jimmy Wofford in green on dark/bay brown horse, clip starting with view from the rear. Whoever it was, nice ride! And there are some pretty fine auto releases. Bruce, as ever, looks fabulous.
Thanks for the memories!

[RiverBendPol]

That was HUGE fun to see. Thank you so much for posting.

PS --As an interesting sideline, CMP came twice to ride at Ledyard from England, each time got as far as "the infamous Ledyard coffin" and each time had to turn around and go back to England!
Denny, this story gave me a chuckle...I did a clinic at Ledyard on my old red TB (Intermediate level) with CMP. It was a HIDEOUS day, the horse learned to stop on xc that day, I fell off in the water, etc, etc. The very last exercise of the 2 hours was to do the Ledyard Coffin. As I galloped toward the thing I thought better of it, turned away, rode up to Mark and said, "I taught my horse to stop today, I do not think I will ask him to jump that combination." Mark Phillips looked up at me (you can picture the expression on his face) and said, " That is the wisest decision you have made all day." I almost kicked him in the chops!!:eek:Thrilled to know HE never got through there either!

[snickerdoodle]

was this Advanced?

[Mustang51]

The stadium video is up now too. Forget the xc- why can't we have stadium like that any more! Look at how wide open it is...
My horse goes so much happier in stadium when its in a big open field with lots of space in between the jumps than in all these twisty courses in tiny sand arenas we usually get!

[snickerdoodle]

where is stadium video?

[Mustang51]

Click on "More from: His Greyness"

[snickerdoodle]

is that princess anne in the beginning of the vidoe gettting her boots wiped down?

that course is OPEN

[snickerdoodle]

can anyone id the riders/horse.

also, check out the weight pads they had to wear back then. 165lbs for both XC and SJ.

[Tuckertoo]

Amazing! THOSE are the courses that should still be around.:yes:

[snickerdoodle]

and helmet with no harness!

[JER]

Thanks for posting this. Wonderful to watch horses gallop over fences.

A forward position is not incompatible with riding over fences, provided the rider is in balance with the horse.

A few examples:
-- the 2008 BCG Cross Country Chase at Cheltenham (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rumm01nmTAc)
-- the 2007 Prix Telopee at Craon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGlxofa1Jew)

(These races are really fun to watch!)

[CavaliaStudMuffin]

I enjoyed seeing the APPALOOSA (mooo) going quite nicely at Ledyard!
What are your thoughts Denny? ;)

[Pocket Pony]

Love love love the videos!

Mr. PoPo and I went to Ireland last year in April to watch an event and I must say it was quite like that. The layout of the land was huge so that in a 5-10 acre field there would be one or two jumps. Mostly long galloping fences with just a couple tricky combinations. But mostly what we noticed was the long gallops to the inviting fences, not the trappy, twisty-turny, bouncy-cantering jumps we see here.

Love it! Thank you for sharing that video!

[Robin@DHH]

Many of you have commented that we can't have courses like these any longer even as
you say how much you would love to ride on this type of course. Why can't we have
courses like these? Is it that they would not prepare for the Olympics? Just how many
of the eventing riders are actually going to the Olympics? Why focus on those riders
when they are such a small part of the sport? Is it that there is not land? That really
is not true, thee are vast tracts of land in the USA which are currently in CRP set aside
which could be leased for the same price as the government is paying farmers not to
plant a crop.

So, why can't there be courses of this sort? Would someone clue me in.

[Tux61096]

I have dug out of my archives movie clips of the first event at which I was a spectator.

1975 Ledyard Farm Horse Trials - Cross Country. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_d3YjMo5SE)

Keep in mind these were taken with a Regular 8mm clockwork movie camera. I will add some clips of stadium jumping later. These are now on YouTube at:

1975 Ledyard Farm Horse Trials - Stadium Jumping (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h-hTvl0szE)



My mom & I were there!! Thank you so much for posting the video, it really brings back memories, like when I turned to my Mom and said "I'm going to do this someday!" Well, I've managed to get up to Training, but here's to hope!

[RunForIt]

Thanks for the clarification, Thomas. Denny may chime in here, but as I recall, many of the riders used to gallop horses at the track. Maybe that's why there are so many with shorter reins.

And GotSpots, if you saw those fences in person, you'd see that many had ground lines, all had rounded top edges, and faces that sloped slightly, but significantly. I agree that they look vertical and square on the tape, however. And there were a few that were more vertical, but again, had rounded edges and the horss generally had a good shot at seeing the width of the fence.

could the bolded text features in the quote above, and the fact that the horses needed just a bit of a tug to come back from a galloping frame and balance to ride forward into a fence with ground lines, rounded top edges, and faces that sloped slightly.. contribute to how you were feeling as you watched this video?...out of all the riders you watched, did ANYONE look like the riders on YouTube from Red Hills...thank you so much, your greyness, I've not ever seen eventing any earlier than 1996! I wanted to be there! That's the eventing I could dream of doing...and I will dream of doing.

[bosox]

that S/J looked more spaced out as well? Do you think they made it so b/c it was on the polox field?

Thx Born for answering my questions!

[dirtgirl]

Wow! Thank you for posting those!

[AllyCat]

What great videos! Thanks!

Crazy idea,,,,gallop, jump, gallop away,,,

[CavaliaStudMuffin]

I enjoyed seeing the APPALOOSA (mooo) going quite nicely at Ledyard!
What are your thoughts Denny? ;)

[Miss Perfect]

Now THAT'S the kind of riding I remember watching as a kid! I wanted to do it then, and still want to do it today. How welcoming, inspirational and beautiful the courses were back then! Where and why have they gone? :no:

[denny]

I think there`s a natural human tendency to keep upping the ante.
Let me explain.
About 15 years ago, former USET Chairman Bill Steinkraus told me he`d watched 3 variations of eventing, the military version---big, straightforward, not technical---most riders in uniform.
Then, after 1948, when most country`s cavalrys were disbanded, eventing would have disappeared, but it was rescued by foxhunters!
MFH Duke of Beaufort, Badminton, 1948, in USA, USCTA founded by MFH Alec Mackay Smith, then Phil Hofmann, 1st president, Gibby Semmes, 2nd president, MFH Neil Ayer, etc.
Those were also big, straightforward galloping courses, and the ones we golden oldies remember so fondly.
But then, said Bill, Foxhunting began to wane (blame population growth, land loss?), and the new breed of xc designers began to "fiddle" (my words, not his) with design.
Skinnies, corners, angles, bounce banks up and down, not stuff you`d see out hunting or taking messages across a battlefield, and so Bill`s 3 varieties:
1. Military
2. Foxhunter
3. Event horse/rider Specialist
And now we have the 4th incarnation of eventing
4. Short Format

So here we are, far, far from our roots.

[c_expresso]

My favorite thing about these videos is that when the horses make a mistake they are not punished by the jump.

[His Greyness]

I have added video of the Dressage Tests since somebody asked about Eventing Dressage in the same context:

1982 Badminton Horse Trials - Dressage. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1059868973489448927)