Foal Watch when you work full-time? Suggestions?

[Castlegate]

Has anyone perfected the day time foal watch plan if you work full-time? I am close enough to home that I can go home for lunch etc. just trying to figure out the best plan for making sure she is monitored....

Anyone have anything that has worked for them?

[ise@ssl]

No offense but I can't imagine leaving my mares for the entire day and only coming home at lunch time. While foalings usually go well - we have had situations where we could have lost either the foal or the mare or both if we hadn't been there.

Can't you hire someone? Or move her to a foaling barn?

[Daydream Believer]

Web cams that you can watch at work. I had them on both stalls and on the mare's paddock. A good foaling monitor that will call your cell phone also. I did that last Spring when I transitioned from full to part time at the office and I caught two mares foaling during the day and was able to get my backup folks there while I drove like a maniac the 20 min. drive home. It's not a cheap investment to do all this but I foaled out 14 last year and since this is my business, it was worthwhile to me to invest in it.

I second the suggestion of sending her to a foaling facility if you can't keep a close watch on her. Mares are very very sneaky (speaking from just having a maiden almost sneak one in on my at 6:30 this a.m.)

[Castlegate]

No offense taken - and I dont plan on leaving her alone and only going home at lunch...that's just what *I* can do - of course when I think she is close I will just stay home but I am worried about say Day 320 - Day 370! I certainly dont think I could stay home all of those days (although I would certainly LIKE to!) -

I will have my mare on marestare soon and yes, I can watch that at work...Mr. Castlegate can also help out too..and of course my mother has volunteered to stay at the farm and check her hourly etc.

My horse sitter would probably come and "camp out" - but I am not really sure that would be necessary..

I guess a better question would be - when do you not feel comfy leaving them for more than about an hour at a time DURING the day...? Of course we will be up all night etc...

[talloaks]

I'd definitely send her to a foaling facility!! Its not fair to the mare, the foal, and you the owner, to take a chance that she will foal safely on her own. I had done it on my own for years but now send my mares to a facility where they are well monitored.

[clint]

I guess a better question would be - when do you not feel comfy leaving them for more than about an hour at a time DURING the day...? Of course we will be up all night etc...

I have a mare who I have foaled out about six times. She is cheery about giving birth during the day; it may be her preference. When she has waxed, I don't leave her alone for even an hour 24/7. Two years ago when she looked ready, my husband left for an errand late morning, so I hung out in the house watching her on the cctv. She had access to a paddock, but had chosen to remain in, which is a telltale sign for her. I was on the phone with a friend, and noticed she had stepped into an open side stall. By the time I could hang up and get to the barn, the foal was almost out. ;) Foaling her out has made me realize that if you really want to be there for a foaling, you can't leave an imminent mare, and I realize that can mean days of hanging out at home.

[Castlegate]

She is not going to be able to go to a foaling facility so I need some other suggestions.

I hear you Clint -good friend of mine was glued in the barn....left to get a cup of coffee at 9am and by the time she walked back in the barn...foal on the ground!

[VirginiaBred]

I have my mother and my daughter around. Mom lives at the farm, and my daughter is there on and off throughout the day, so we are keeping things covered.

Best advise is to have someone (neighbor, friend) drop by when you can't be there. Our mares almost always foal at night or very early morning, so that's some comfort.

Good luck!

[Cielo Azure]

Chemetrics would be the way to go for you and test before you go to work and when you come home. Watch every single little thing but waxing may be one of the most important (bagging too -a real bag).
http://www.chemetrics.com/analytes/foalwatch.html

Really watch for all the signs. Once you hit 150 on the test, start testing at lunch too or just plan on taking a couple of days off at that point.

If you really watch and write down the results of each test, I think you will be ok. You are coming home for lunch after all. Of course, it isn't ideal but it isn't the end of the world either.

[TouchstoneAcres]

I don't understand why she can't go to a foaling facility? I'd have someone there 24x7 and a vet on call. Do the chemetics and watch for any signs. What will you do if an inexperienced person is "on duty" and the vet can't come? That's why mine go out.

[Jasmine]

Foaling facilities are expensive. Not everyone can afford that.

I work full time as well. My mare is about ready to pop (I actually thought she'd foal last night). I've got my retired neighbor checking her every couple hours. And my roommate works about 10 minutes from the farm, so he's checking her as much as he can.

[Hillside H Ranch]

If you can't send her to a foaling facility, then you need to have someone experienced with her 24/7. I can't emphasize enough that some mares will foal with NO WARNING. I mean no wax, no milk, nothing. In these cases even the milk testing won't help, because you might not be able to express any milk until right before she foals. I have found that waxing is not a dependable sign. I've had mares wax for two weeks before foaling and I've had many mares that never waxed before foaling. You do not want to go through the worry and expense of 11 months of waiting to lose mare/foal/both just because you were 5 minutes too late and she foaled with no warning.

[Castlegate]

So good then, I am not alone...I am now doing the temperature chart...will be ordering chemetrics today...I have the foal cam and hope to have her on "mare-stare" - have my mother at the farm when hubby or I can not be there...and I am planning on taking a week off when we get closer...or if I can get some signs...I hope I will have signs...!

[pintopiaffe]

I'm the opposite--I work evenings, and booking out for me is an act of congress.

I rely very heavily on milk testing, along side the other reliable indicators such as elongation of the vulva, relaxation of the croup, etc.

I use a strip that has both calcium & pH. The calcium can go high for a few days, but once the pH drops, you're going. I have only missed 1 day of work per foal in the last 5 years or so.

Of course, this only works if you have milk to test. I had ONE unattended. She had no udder to speak of yet, was not down in the croup at all yet. Milk was still clear-to-lemonade. Was at 354 but she's gone 354, 365 & 370... so I hadn't even bedded her in straw yet. We had a microburst which tore the roof off a huge lumber company building, destroyed a couple of homes/barns... and I came home to find Lugh. He wasn't even up yet.

So, mares don't read the book. But the last dozen or so foalwatches, only that one has failed me. I usually know just from how the milk looks/feels what it is going to test. The test is just the emperical evidence that assuages the guilt of booking out.

[showjumpers66]

I foaled out mares for years by myself while working full time and only missed my first one. I had to choose ... first day of new job or home with foaling mare. A friend was sitting with her all day as I knew that she was going to foal, but when the friend left to pick up her son from school the mare foaled during the 45 minutes that she was gone. Mares! :lol:

I saved up my vacation and sick days for breeding season. I explained the situation to my employers and then gave them a heads-up when the mare was close. I would sleep in the evenings while my husband watched the mares, would mare watch at night, and then watch the mares via web cam at work. I recruited friends to help foal watch via web cam during the day just in case I was away from desk and missed something. I used Chemetrics to help pinpoint when I needed to miss work. Once they were close, I stayed home from work with them. Chemetrics was 100% for me over a 5 year period and I only had one mare that I couldn't test. Although, some mares will make changes very, very quickly (i.e. going from no milk to dripping milk within an hour) and if you are not watching them closely or checking them very often, you will totally miss it. This worked really well for me and I never missed more than 1 day of work for each mare.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Definitely do milk tests, and marestare. Have someone (or 3) you can call that can get there within 5 minutes, while you are on the way. You may have to arrange her daily "turnout" time from ~~ 5PM to 10PM ?, once you are home so you can watch. I will often have my mares on 7-10 AM & 7 to 10 PM turnout when it is really hot, so that can work to keep them under the camera while you are away.

I had a mare looking VERY close on the night of my son's HS graduation. I begged a friend that had just had a baby 3 days before to sit in my barn for a couple of hours (with her new born). Luckily no foal that evening, but at 4:30 in the morning, the OTHER mare (the one we were not watching yet) foaled.

[talloaks]

Castlegate, is this the first time for you to foal out a mare? Is this the mare's first foal or has she had other foalings that went without complications???

[Dinah-do]

Even a well staffed foaling facility can miss a mare. If they say they have never missed a mare they are either fibbing or have not been foaling for long. More disasters happen from over zealous owners bugging mares too much. You can only do the best you can do.

[Hillside H Ranch]

Even a well staffed foaling facility can miss a mare. If they say they have never missed a mare they are either fibbing or have not been foaling for long. More disasters happen from over zealous owners bugging mares too much. You can only do the best you can do.

I'm going to have to disagree with the first part of this statement. We foal out dozens of mares each year, both our own and client mares. We've been doing this for several years now and we have not missed a foaling. IMHO, if you are offering this as a service for clients, it is unacceptable to miss a foaling. Part of foaling mares out is making the commitment to be there at the time of foaling. It means having a set of eyes on that mare at all times, no matter what. Work, other emergencies, etc. no exception. It isn't rocket science, you have someone watching the mare 24/7. So I don't feel that a "well staffed foaling facility" should EVER miss a foaling.

[Tallabred]

I taste the milk. Once the milk goes from salty to sweet (sweet like the milk left over from a bowl of cereal) they will foal within 6 hours.

What about a foal alert?

[Fairview Horse Center]

None of us that foal out mares can make sure someone is watching 24/7, but we do check often. Many of us foal by ourselves, and NO one can say they can stay awake for weeks on end. We all use the restroom and take showers. My best help besides knowing the milk changes is to have a very good way of listening. A mare in trouble foaling will make noise, and that will wake you up if you happen to be napping between checks.

I had a boarder that wanted to do her own foal watch. She took off 2 weeks from work and camped out. When it was time to go back, still no foal. She took of almost 2 more weeks before baby finally arrived. When the mare decided to foal, the owner had slipped down to 7-eleven, 2 miles away for coffee. She left her cell on the seat of the truck while she ran in for coffee. THAT is when I called. ;)

[Dinah-do]

I have been out of the loop for a few years so I should clarify. The farms that I was involved with were TB farms live cover and quite busy. Try as they might with 150 plus foalings and 400 live cover breedings there were a few missed over the years. I think 100% of mares that snuck a foaling in were just fine. The real wrecks were the ones with lots of people available and all went to hell before you could blink. I think TBs are most likely to have foaling issues compared to some other breeds that still consider fertility and mothering an importantant part of being a broodmare. You can only do the best you can do and full sevice foaling can be expensive.

[CurlyLindsay]

Foaling facilities are expensive. Not everyone can afford that.

I work full time as well.


Nothing about breeding is cheap. :) Last year I ran the numbers and found that it was less expensive, even with hauling early 3 hrs each way, to have my mare foaled out at a foaling facility (Hillside H's, actually) than to have to take off work (and I didn't figure in purchasing all that equipment...). Not to mention so much less stress made for being much more productive and profitable at work during that time.

[FriesianX]

If you can have someone check on her every hour or two, you are doing better than many small breeders. Keep her in a safe, clean, well bedded place. Is she a maiden mare? I'd worry more about a maiden, but for an experienced broodmare, if you can keep an eye on her and have a camera that you can check from work, and can get home in 15 minutes, you are really in decent shape.

Honestly, if something goes wrong, unless you have a resident vet, there isn't a whole lot you can do anyway - except CALL your repro vet - hate to say it, but many owners muck things up much more for the mare by "helping".

Again, if she is a maiden or has had difficult births before, you might be more cautious.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Honestly, if something goes wrong, unless you have a resident vet, there isn't a whole lot you can do anyway - except CALL your repro vet - hate to say it, but many owners muck things up much more for the mare by "helping".

Actually I have never had a dystocia that the vet made it out in time to fix. There really is not time to get a vet. The foaling attendent needs to be able to go in, and fix a problem. You also really have to be able to get another person there fast to hold up the mare while you fix a leg, head, etc.

If you get to that leg just as it goes up, or the head just as it turns back, you can usually get it fixed. If you wait 5 or 10 minutes, labor progresses, contractions get stronger, the foals body gets more jammed, and more out of position, and less room to work in. Every minute that passes makes is less likely for a good outcome.

[diamondgirl]

Another vote here for Chemetrics.

[ise@ssl]

Dinah-Do - I don't believe there is any data to support your comment that TB's have more trouble foaling thany other breeds. We certainly haven't seen that.

We don't leave the farm without someone here if it is close to the mare's foaling time and she is showing signs that she's close. Waxing - for us has never been a reliable sign.

[okggo]

Here is what I do.
1st, I do send them to a foaling facility but do my own foal watch as well. I rely very much on the milk and attendants guess for when to stay and have a very good boss who lets me take off of work.

When our Feb foal was born I took off 3 days, first night no foal, second night she foaled and third I stayed home spent time with her and rested. We slept in the barn the whole time all day and night. My hubby was with me and had to work so he just went in really "hung over" on sleep deprivation. My other foal I took over a week off, that is why I named him "Irish Holiday", he really was my Irish holiday :)

My April foal is going to be tough :( She is going to the foaling barn as well but is "due" Apriol 24th and I have a huge International convention I'm hosting the 28th-2nd of May. I'm hoping my husband can hang home and be here if I can't but I'm really hoping she foals before or after the meeting (fat chance of that I'm sure).

The bottom line with me is that I'm not afraid to miss them if the "sneak" out babies b/c they are at a foaling barn and will have a very experienced foaling attendant there. The most I've spent the night is one night with this years mare, and I have seen both foalings so far.

And understanding boss helps the most :D

[Daydream Believer]

I know personally how damn sneaky mares are and even the most attentive foal watcher....short of literally 24/7 and not taking your eyes off the mare...can miss a foaling. What makes me chuckle is the many thousands of mares annually who foal unattended (intentionally) on ranches and farms all over the US...and complications are rare honestly. I shake my head and wonder how they could be so "lucky." I wonder sometimes if all our good intentions and keeping them up in stalls gives us worse odds of problems? The confinement and lack of movement? I don't know and with my situation (and many others) of dry lotting to avoid fescue and using foaling stalls at night...there isn't much else we can do. We are merely doing our best...

I guess for the mare owner who is willing to fork out big money there are 24/7 foaling facilities where no one takes their eyes off the mare. However, I know for a fact that some of the big vet clinics use the foal alert monitors sewn onto the vulva and have a vet sleeping there. That foal alert monitor...like any monitor...is not foolproof...a dystocia might by missed with one of those and a mare in trouble not found until too late.

Give Castlegate a break...she's doing her best for her situation and IMO that is all anyone can ask.

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

I know personally how damn sneaky mares are and even the most attentive foal watcher....short of literally 24/7 and not taking your eyes off the mare...can miss a foaling. What makes me chuckle is the many thousands of mares annually who foal unattended (intentionally) on ranches and farms all over the US...and complications are rare honestly. I shake my head and wonder how they could be so "lucky." I wonder sometimes if all our good intentions and keeping them up in stalls gives us worse odds of problems? The confinement and lack of movement? I don't know and with my situation (and many others) of dry lotting to avoid fescue and using foaling stalls at night...there isn't much else we can do. We are merely doing our best...

I guess for the mare owner who is willing to fork out big money there are 24/7 foaling facilities where no one takes their eyes off the mare. However, I know for a fact that some of the big vet clinics use the foal alert monitors sewn onto the vulva and have a vet sleeping there. That foal alert monitor...like any monitor...is not foolproof...a dystocia might by missed with one of those and a mare in trouble not found until too late.

Give Castlegate a break...she's doing her best for her situation and IMO that is all anyone can ask.

Thanks Daydream Believer. I know some of the replies yesterday really had her down and feeling attacked. My boyfriend shakes his head at my list of "to do's" and says, "They've been having them on their own forever without all the over mothering." Castlegates and my mare are due the same day and they are both foaling at home. There is nothing wrong with that and most of the world DOES work full time, myself included. I've got my Chematrics test, my boyfriend is bringing me home PH strips from work, camera will be mounted in the barn etc.

I've been doing foal watch at my neighbors TB barn. I usually have 15 mares to supervise each night, all of which have the sewn-in alarms. Whomever is on foal watch sleeps in the apartment in the barn that has video monitors on the aisleways on the broodmare side and the alarm box. During the day the horses are turned out in the indoor arena and somebody is on-site that will hear if the alarms go off but not sitting there watching them all day.

Nobody can sit and watch a horse 24/7, including those foaling facilities. But we all do the best we can do and that's all we can hope for. Either way, our horses are MUCH better off than manys - I know all of us here make sure they are vaccinated, well fed etc. It breaks my heart when I see a mare that is bones and find out she's pregnant!

Can't wait to see your foal Castlegate! Cyber Siblings!!

[talloaks]

Foaling out mares is not just an easy natural thing that occurs safely in nature. There are many mares who lose their foals when foaling unattended whether it is due to the foal being in the wrong position, where often times the mare dies also, or foals that are kicked by the mare or another mare, or foals that are dropped on their heads because the mare foals standing up.
Mares that have foaled without any problems in the past 'may' have another safe and easy foaling but not always, that I know from experience. Particularily maiden mares don't always know what to do and may not accept that little foal in the stall with them and will want to kick them.
Of course if you have someone watching the mares, that person has to know what to do if the presentation is not normal, etc etc etc. Foaling mares is not for the faint of heart and should be taken seriously, if for no other reason than the safety of the mare and her foal.
Good luck to everyone, whether its your first foaling or your hundredth!!

[sporthorsefilly]

I work full time, therefore I send my mare to someone who foals horses, and monitors them 24/7.

[MardiGrasTimeStable]

I work thankfully only part-time...but with a second farm to handle as well it might as well be full-time. We've only got 2 mares foaling this year - and one is due "any day". So actually your circumstances is pretty doable - especially being able to put a camera on her and only being 20 minutes away.

Thankfully the first one due is an older mare with a history of no complications at delivery (her history is more of problems with aborting at 7 - 8 months). She's in a stall at night with regular checks, during the day she's out in her paddock in plain sight of the house where her ever watchful half-owner who is retired lives. But even then I get someone to stop by at random times as they drive past.
-------------------------- Sorry to hijack...but as this JUST happened... ----------
Though some days even that makes me shake my head...
Conversation with my high school senior rider who's out of school today who's been working with me for 7 years....

"Go by and check the Grey mare that is due as you drive past the barn on your way to the beach"

"OK - where will she be?"

"Its 1030 am - she should be out in her paddock if they didn't opt to leave her in the stall this morning"

"Ok"

10 minutes later....phone rings

"There isn't anybody in the paddock is she in the barn" (there are going to be two horses in the barn if the grey stayed in as she will not stall quietly alone so her buddy, a bay that is due in 2 weeks, will be in another stall)

"Yes"

"Ok... is it the grey mare with her tail wrapped?"
(Thinking..."No honey it's the purple horse with wings")

[Altamont Sport Horses]

Maiden mares are bad for foaling out during the day. They fight it all night until the contractions lay them out and they can't fight it anymore. If your mare is maiden I would watch her closely, or have someone else checking her every 15 minutes during the day if she is acting suspicious or...

My experience is that after the milk turns from salty to definitely sweet, I will have a foal in less than 24 hours. Many mares do not wax. I even have mares that waxed in the past but didn't wax the next time so I don't consider waxing a very reliable indication of impending foaling. The milk turning sweet has worked for me.

Unfortunately, I had three difficult births (out of only 4) last year. One had a front leg caught in the pelvis, one couldn't get the big baby out and needed help (maiden mare) and the third one delivered standing up (maiden mare). The last one was quite an experience because she wasn't making progress laying down (foal also had a foot caught) so I guess she decided since she wasn't making progress laying down that she should go for it standing up. Imagine catching a very slippery 125+ lb. warmblood filly. I was soaked and exhausted.

I really recommend that the attendant check every 15 minutes. I also use baby monitors - the LONG range ones. I can hear the water break, when the mare lays down, grunting, whether she is eating hay (everything) even pacing. Before I used baby monitors I found that if I missed the 15 minute check, the foal was there or in progress by the next 15 minute check.

[Hillside H Ranch]

To the OP: I think in your situation I would had a Foal-Alert to your system. This way if you can't have eyes on her all the time, you will at least have this as a back up. Sure, it isn't perfect and you can miss the window of opportunity to correct a mal-positioned foal, but it will add another safeguard to your routine.
I agree that 90% of mares foal fine without any complications. But I can tell you that when things go badly, they go very badly, very quickly. So far this year, we have had two problematic deliveries. All horses involved turned out to be fine, but there is a good chance that if they were only being checked on every two hours that we would have had some dead horses. One was a foal with a leg back and the other was a foal with a leg crossed over its head. I agree with the poster who checks every 15 minutes-that isn't overkill! In just an hour you can have a mare go into labor, have a problem and at the very least the foal can be dead by then. I don't want to scare anyone with this negativity, but disasters happen every year during foaling and many of them could have been prevented.
I do commend everyone here who does the absolute best they can to make sure those deliveries are attended.

[westernrider]

I personally feel most comfortable when a mare is monitored 24 hours a day. The facility I have used in the past does just that. There is literally a person in the foaling barn, all day, all night. They do shifts. In addition to the person who literally just walks from stall to stall to stall to check them, there are two more experienced people on call. One until midnight, the other starting at midnight. So the "watchers" call in very experienced help who live on premises. At this facility, the success/survival rate is extremely high.

Other people let their mare foal out in a field, and check once a day when they come and feed. And most of the time, things are fine. Some of the time, things go horribly wrong.

I think that people who foal at home, even if they check every hour or few hours, are mostly counting on things going right. If you are monitoring from 10 minutes away, you are definately counting on things going right. There is an element of risk, above and beyond a facility that has someone in the barn all day and all night. Not someone sleeping there, but a person awake, working that shift.

I'm not criticizing those who foal out at home, and in fact that's exactly what I am doing this year myself. But I am fully aware, that there is an element of risk. If I go to dinner, to the feed store, or watch TV instead of the cameras.... I could miss the foaling-- or miss the opportunity to assist if things are not right.

Cameras, foal alerts and the like are not very useful if a knowledgeable person cannot respond within minutes.

[Fairview Horse Center]

When the mare decided to foal, the owner had slipped down to 7-eleven, 2 miles away for coffee. She left her cell on the seat of the truck while she ran in for coffee. THAT is when I called. ;)

Things do go wrong quickly. The mare I was talking about in that post did have a problem. The foal had one leg stuck back. While the owner was getting her coffee, I got the mare up, found and fixed the leg, and she had gone back down and was pushing the foal out by the time the owner got back. If not fixed at the early stage of the delivery, it could have been a real train wreck, losing baby, maybe mom too, not to mention the race to load and get to the EMC, and many thousands of dollars to attempt to save them.

That owner had watched for almost 4 weeks, and still almost had a train wreck. It was thanks to one of the kids in the barn that noticed the mare doing something weird, and came and got me. She foaled at 5PM. There can never be too many people helping to foal watch.

[Castlegate]

Thanks to everyone who made suggestions...gave me some more ideas to try and make sure I am there...I also just remembered that my neighbor who is an OB Nurse hasnt worked in a year and he and his wife said that they would be happy to walk accross the street and check her as often as I would like as he wants to be there for the foaling...

So, thanks for the tips..and for the support...

[showjumpers66]

Over the last 10 years, I'll have to say that I haven't missed one either (other than the one that I knew was coming and my friend on watch duty missed ;) ). Now that I have said it, I'll miss one this year! :) I'll also disagree about bugging the mares too much. I visit with the mares when they are close (about once an hour). For the most part, they seem to enjoy the attention and they tend to foal when people are around. I think people can cause problems during the delivery by being overzealous or not assisting correctly or at the right moment.

Even a well staffed foaling facility can miss a mare. If they say they have never missed a mare they are either fibbing or have not been foaling for long. More disasters happen from over zealous owners bugging mares too much. You can only do the best you can do.