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ThreeDays
Mar. 17, 2008, 04:05 PM
Restocking the foaling kit and making orders.

So I wanted to hear from other about what drugs you keep on hand?

Bute
Banamine
Oxytocin

any others??

And - does anyone know the dosage calculation for oxtocin for postpartum care?

MaresNest
Mar. 19, 2008, 04:15 PM
Restocking the foaling kit and making orders.

So I wanted to hear from other about what drugs you keep on hand?

Bute
Banamine
Oxytocin

any others??

And - does anyone know the dosage calculation for oxtocin for postpartum care?

Some kind of sedative. Ace is the one that vets are most comfortable dispensing.

ahf
Mar. 19, 2008, 05:20 PM
Those are the drugs I keep on hand. Incl. the ace, except that i get a few cc's of demosodan in a syringe from the vet in case of things going way bad south. It's just enough to keep anyone from getting killed until the vet arrives (or getting an hysterical mare on teh trailer with the foal in a worst-case situation), and quite honestly, my vet knows I won't use it unless she's on the phone telling me I need to. Not to mention the stuff is $10 per unit.

As far as oxyt post-partum....I know of no set amounts. Post-partum mares have more oxytocin receptors than a non-foaling mare, and if we are talking about a retained placenta, I would not go there alone. IF the mare simply has KNOWN clearance issues post-foaling...I would speak to the vet about microdoses of oxyt every 6 hours. Yes, it keeps you up, but it's very effective without overdoing it.

fsf
Mar. 19, 2008, 05:52 PM
My repo vet has me give all my mares a 3cc IM dose of Oxytocin to assist with uterine tone postpartum. I do feel comfortable with this being a nurse and having given Pitocin to humans before also. Besides, my vet is at least 30 minutes away. I'm also prepared to give small doses should uterine clearance of the placenta be a concern.

ahf
Mar. 19, 2008, 07:05 PM
I have to say fsf, I have never given 3cc's of oxytocin in my life for basic clearance, i.e. "tone". That is a whole lotta hormone.

I'm not saying it's NOT called for in a retained placenta situation, where time is your enemy ...That's a situation I've not had to deal with so far (watch - it'll happen to me tonight)

clint
Mar. 19, 2008, 07:16 PM
I asked my vet this morning about oxytocin, not for post-partum issues, because for a retained placenta, I want my vet on the job, but for letting down milk. Two years ago I had a maiden foal with a milk bag that felt like it was full of rocks. The on call vet came out and when neither of us could do anything, she left me with oxytocin to administer every hour. It worked, or something did, because the foal was able nurse easily within about five hours. When I asked me about having it on hand, he didn't seem to think there was a whole lot of necessity for it, but he didn't reject the plan. I suspect if I had said it was because I wanted to deal with a retained placenta or uterine tone, he would have looked at me like I was mad. ;)

westernrider
Mar. 19, 2008, 07:48 PM
I have

banamine, both injectable and paste
bute
amikacin (for newborn foal)
tetanus toxoid (for newborn foal)

I have two syringes, one with rompum and one with ace, in case of dystocia where I need to sedate the mare and stop the labor, while the vet rushes to assist. I hope to never need those two syringes.

Not shots, but also keep Probias, Recover, Ivermectin. If my mares get to day 335 without nice bags, I get Domperidone. I'm on my way tomorrow to pick up seramune-- have been debating between it and plasma, and am pretty sure I will do the seramune.

ahf
Mar. 19, 2008, 07:59 PM
I've tried seramune 2x. Both times I've had to plasma the foal. THe second time I'm fairly certain that because she was one huge filly, one bag of seramune was not enough. Something to think about if you've got a big foal that you think will be FPT.

Please Lord, don't let me need this information again.

westernrider
Mar. 19, 2008, 08:06 PM
bummer.

I have always had good igG's except for once-- and we had to do the plasma. now that I live in Texas, where rhodococcus is rampant, I've used the plasma specifically for rhodococcus protection. Very pricy and I'm not crazy about IV'ing those babies twice.

A friend has had great luck with seramune, and now they've bolstered to to include rhodococcus too.... so I figured it would be worth a shot. Though, if I get a weak igG, I will do the plasma for sure.

ahf
Mar. 19, 2008, 08:18 PM
Okay, this is interesting! WR, you are planning on using the Seramune prophylactically...yes? Please know I was talking about FPT only.

I give the mare that has to foal out at the clinic rhodi vaccinations. Is that not proving effective? I know that a lot of big TB farms just plasma the foals regardless. And I guess if you are dealing with a 200k yearling in the future this is understandable.

Cindy's Warmbloods
Mar. 19, 2008, 08:31 PM
Might want to consider epinephrine in case an injection went wrong.

Fairview Horse Center
Mar. 19, 2008, 08:44 PM
I keep Banamine, Rompun, Oxytocin, sometimes Gentamicin & PPG.

If at ALL possible, Dipyrone is my #1 choice
anti-spasmodic for mild colic
muscle relaxer for choke
DEFINITELY repeated doses for impaction,
but safe, Safe, SAFE as a fever reducer for foals, unlike banamine and bute.
It is extrtemely effective and fast.

Here is an article on Retained Placenta treatment.
http://www.wwvc.net/ern/archives/ern1-5.htm

fsf
Mar. 19, 2008, 09:08 PM
I have to say fsf, I have never given 3cc's of oxytocin in my life for basic clearance, i.e. "tone". That is a whole lotta hormone.

I'm not saying it's NOT called for in a retained placenta situation, where time is your enemy ...That's a situation I've not had to deal with so far (watch - it'll happen to me tonight)

To quote Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook:

"For obstetrical use in mares 100 Units (10u/ml) IV, IM, or SQ."

"To augment uterine contractions during parturition in properly evlauated mares":
20u IM for slow, quiet foaling.
40-60u for safe quite quite foaling within an hour.
100u or more will result in rapid completion of a more active foaling.
For Induction Units are given IV bolus.

I'm not suggesting anyone else use Oxytocin without the advice of their own vet, and I would never induce a mare myself, but I do respect and follow my repo vet's advice and have NEVER had any ill effects from giving Oxytocin as he has prescribed to ME (30u IM). The OP just asked for a dosage and that's what I gave in my experience. All informed breeders and foaling attendants need to practice within their own ability.

Fairview Horse Center
Mar. 19, 2008, 10:12 PM
Here is the article from Kathy's website http://www.equine-reproduction.com/articles/RFM.shtml dosing at 20 to 40 IU

Equine Reproduction
Mar. 20, 2008, 10:19 PM
[COLOR=Blue][I]To quote Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook:

"For obstetrical use in mares 100 Units (10u/ml) IV, IM, or SQ."

When was "Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook" printed? 100 iu oxytocin hasn't been routinely recommended for a long time.


I've tried seramune 2x. Both times I've had to plasma the foal. THe second time I'm fairly certain that because she was one huge filly, one bag of seramune was not enough. Something to think about if you've got a big foal that you think will be FPT.

Seramune: 2 doses are generally recommended as routine, even though the manufacturers suggest one is adequate.

Prophylactic use of Seramune: Issue related to the fact that it (a) fills the belly and may reduce the foal's desire to nurse from the mare; and (b) may not contain antibodies specific to the locale of the foaling, whereas the mare's own colostrum may. Additionally, as it may reduce the desire to nurse, it may negatively affect bonding.

And, with regards to the use of oxytocin post foaling to "tone" the uterus, etc., here's some food (or research, as the case may be) for thought:

The effect of oxytocin and PGF2α on the uterine involution and pregnancy rates in postpartum Arabian mares

Mehmet Can GündüzCorresponding Author Contact Information, a, E-mail The Corresponding Author, Güven Kaşıkçıa and Huriye H. Kayaa
aDepartment of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, University of Istanbul, Avcılar 34320, Istanbul, Turkey
Received 22 November 2006; revised 19 January 2007; accepted 16 February 2007. Available online 22 February 2007.

Abstract

In this study, the effects of oxytocin and an analog of prostaglandin (cloprostenol) on the uterine involution and pregnancy rates were investigated. Mares received 3 ml of 0.9% NaCl in Group C (n = 10), 30 IU/mare of oxytocin in Group O (n = 10) and 250 μg/mare of cloprostenol in Group P (n = 10) within 12 h after parturition. The gravid uterine horn's cross-sectional diameter was measured by ultrasonography. The mean uterine diameters did not differ significantly between the treatment (O and P) and the control (C) groups (p > 0.05). The difference between the postpartum ovulation periods (Group C: 12.6 ± 0.72 days, Group O: 15 ± 1.33 days, Group P: 14.6 ± 1.11 days), the pregnancy rates at foal heat (Group C: 60%, Group O: 60%, Group P: 80%) and the embryonic death rates at foal heat (Group C: 33.3%, Group O: 16%, Group P: 25%) were not found to be statistically significant between the treatment and the control groups. The mean progesterone concentrations were similiar in all groups and decreased continuously from parturition to until foal heat (Group C: from 2.43 ± 0.24 to 0.66 ng/ml, Group O: from 3.07 ± 0.6 to 0.27 ± 0.27 ng/ml and Group P: from 2.8 ± 0.44 to 0 ng/ml) (p > 0.05). In conclusion, it was decided that the oxytocin and PGF2α treatments performed on the mares with the purpose of stimulating involution had no effect on the duration of parturition–first ovulation, the shrinkage of the uterus diameter, the pregnancy and embryonic death rates.

Hope that helps!

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

Altamont Sport Horses
Mar. 21, 2008, 12:43 PM
Triple antibiotic eye ointment without steroids in it because eye injuries can cause a horse to go blind in no time flat (few days) and if you don't notice it right away you want to start treating it right away. I keep plenty of that on hand, usually a couple of tubes because I tend to drop it sometimes and lose it in the shavings. Duh. In fact my week old filly managed to scrape her cornea and I ended up treating her as soon as I found it. She wasn't too happy with me for awhile. :)

Others:
Gentamicin - enough to get started in an emergency situation
Banamine
Bute
Demorsedan - in case something gets really bad
Oxytocin - uterine clearance and can help with milk letdown problems
Epinephrine
E. Coli anti toxin to give at birth
tetanus anti toxin
buckets of oral antibiotics
DMSO is good to have on hand in the event of injuries as well as a reaction to something like a vaccine. Had to use that on a mare that reacted to her pneumabort vaccination at 7 months (but didn't react at 5 months) in addition to bute.
I also keep lutalyse on hand to bring a mare into heat before taking her to the clinic for breeding. Also good to have in the event of a "whoopsie breeding".
emergency milk replacement
colostrum replacement (until the vet can get there)
I've never had much luck using Ace.

patch work farm
Mar. 22, 2008, 09:26 AM
I have had to administer oxytocin to my mares about 5 days after foaling they have suddenly stopped producing milk. I was discussing this with a vet, she said it is more common than most people realize and the theory is that it happens once the "excitement of foaling is over". Luckily I now look for it and do a combination of oxytocin and domperidone. This year I have decided to just keep them on the domperidone longer and see if I can keep them producing without waiting until I see the foal banging on an udder for more milk.

Also, it is my understanding that rhodococcus is in the soil and there is no vaccine, Rotavirus is what we are vaccinating against (causes diarrhea in foals), am I incorrect in this assumption?

Equine Reproduction
Mar. 22, 2008, 10:40 AM
I have had to administer oxytocin to my mares about 5 days after foaling they have suddenly stopped producing milk.

Oxytocin will do absolutely nothing to stimulate milk production. It will assist in milk letdown, but beyond that, it won't assist a mare that suddenly stops producing milk.


Luckily I now look for it and do a combination of oxytocin and domperidone. This year I have decided to just keep them on the domperidone longer and see if I can keep them producing without waiting until I see the foal banging on an udder for more milk.

Dompereidone "will" assist in inducing milk production. But, also be aware that the foal nursing and banging on the mare's udder is part of what stimulates the mare to produce more. Supply and demand and all...


Also, it is my understanding that rhodococcus is in the soil and there is no vaccine, Rotavirus is what we are vaccinating against (causes diarrhea in foals), am I incorrect in this assumption?

Yes. There is a vaccine that can be given to the mare at 8, 9 and 10 months of gestation for Rotavirus. Rhodococcus is just one of those insidious diseases that you just need to be on your toes for and be aware that the foal may not display classic symptoms of being ill until it's too late. If caught early enough, it usually has a good outcome, however.

Hope that helps.

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

Oakstable
Mar. 22, 2008, 05:01 PM
Was Banamine off the market for a while?

I used to have something for colic pain and it was no longer available.

ahf
Mar. 22, 2008, 05:09 PM
Sally, you're thinking of Dipyrone. It was off the market for horses for some time. It's once again attainable from Wedgewood.

It is a great drug - will help a gas colic, but won't mask a twist. Fever reducer too.

Home Again Farm
Mar. 22, 2008, 06:15 PM
Sally, you're thinking of Dipyrone. It was off the market for horses for some time. It's once again attainable from Wedgewood.

It is a great drug - will help a gas colic, but won't mask a twist. Fever reducer too.

Dipyrone is available again? Hallelujah!!!!!! :yes:

Laurierace
Mar. 22, 2008, 06:23 PM
Dipyrone is available again? Hallelujah!!!!!! :yes:

My vet said they could get it compounded.

ASB Stars
Mar. 22, 2008, 06:27 PM
DON'T use Tetanus anti toxin- it can cause organ damage- liver, I think. Just use the regular Tetanus Toxoid.

Has anyone tried that new colic injectable- begins with a B, I think, and I can't remember the name- anyone remember- and has anyone tried it?

Fairview Horse Center
Mar. 22, 2008, 07:18 PM
Does anyone know if the Dipyrone available now is the same concentration as what it used to be? The dosage was always between 10 and 20 ml for a 1000 lb horse. I always used the higher dose of 20 mls.

Oakstable
Mar. 22, 2008, 07:24 PM
Thanks, Kate.

My vet is doing a castration on Thursday. I'll ask about getting some Dipyrone. (I just checked my frig and I have a bottle in the back of a shelf, dated 1995).

I had a vet call for a filly with sand colic and the bill was around $300. I'll see if I can find the paperwork. Would Dipyrone help with that kind of colic pain? I would think it would.

Fairview Horse Center
Mar. 22, 2008, 07:33 PM
Dipyrone will definitely help with mild colic pain. It also helps to relax things to make them able to pass blockages.

Waterwitch
Mar. 22, 2008, 07:52 PM
Oxytocin
Xylazine
Acepromazine
Dipyrone
Banamine
Buscopan
Naxcel
Gentocin

Oakstable
Mar. 22, 2008, 08:46 PM
I just found a second bottle of Dipyrone in the back of my frig. This one expired in '98. I never threw these out as I figured old stuff would be better than nothing. But I never had to use it.

My vet is on my street several times a week. And he lives about 20 minutes away.

His coverage area is pretty big so he could be more than an hour or more away on a call.

I'll ask about having some drugs, just in case ... Sand colic is a big risk in my climate.

MaresNest
Mar. 22, 2008, 11:05 PM
Has anyone tried that new colic injectable- begins with a B, I think, and I can't remember the name- anyone remember- and has anyone tried it?

Buscopan. I don't have a whole lot of experience with it, but I think it's a decent anti-spasmodic drug.

Daydream Believer
Mar. 23, 2008, 08:48 AM
Add Dexamethazone to that list. I had a client mare suffer a very scarey allergic reaction yesterday afternoon after receiving an injection of HcG. We did not notice it until the vet left and was on his way to an emergency and could not turn around and come back. I have Epinephrine on hand but the vet said on the phone not to give it in this situation which was not anaphalaxis. So all I could administer that I had on hand (by his recommendation) was Banamine...which did stop the allergic reaction but it did not resolve the hives or other symptoms until this a.m.