Any one the back on track leg wraps? Likes/dislikes? Effective?

[vxf111]

I have to admit, I always skipped right by the pages in the Dover catalog with the magnetic/ceramic wraps, figuring it was a bunch of hooey. Recently, two very well-respected horsepersons mentioned that they used the back on track ceramic leg wraps and saw results.

The use would be for a horse with tenosynovitis (inflammation of the fluid-filled sheath surrounding the tendon in his fetlock). The ultrasound showed no tear, just swelling/inflamation. He's been on stall rest/cold therapy for a month and a half. He's also getting Surpass. The swelling doesn't seem to be decreasing, and the vet suggested wrapping him at night.

Rather than just use standing wraps, I thought maybe I'd try the back on track wraps-- if people have found them effective.

Assuming they are effective, which do you think are better? The ones that are like standing wraps or the ones that are more like a boot with velcro? I feel like the boot style are probably easier to use, but the standing wrap style might be easier to get tight in and around the leg so there's actually wrap to skin contact without gaps.

[Evalee Hunter]

I have not used the Back on Track wraps. However, my brother gave me a ceramic fiber knee cover for myself & I do wear it to bed when my knee is bothering me & I feel it helps. This should be enough to get Deltaware in here to josh us for being so gullible.

[ponyjumper4]

The Back on Track products are also available for humans, which is where the company started before branching out into equine products. They are very effective and a lot of riders use them. A friend of mine uses hers on her event horses and they recover very nicely, one with a tendon injury injury healed quicker. I want one of the blankets for my cold backed mare, as well as the leg wraps.

[lindat]

I just met a lady yesterday that had the standing wraps and a pad for the back that she said made a difference with her horse.
I have not used these products personally but I have used a variety of magnetic and FIR products with great results.

[MassageLady]

The magnets in them help to promote circulation and to keep the energy flowing in that area. That is what helps to heal it quicker. :yes: It's basic science. We are all made up of atoms...protons, electrons and neutrons-which we have been taught are positive/negative and neutral energy. The magnets just get the atoms moving, which helps with the circulation...same as those who do energy balancing.

[lindat]

The magnets in them help to promote circulation and to keep the energy flowing in that area. That is what helps to heal it quicker. :yes: It's basic science. We are all made up of atoms...protons, electrons and neutrons-which we have been taught are positive/negative and neutral energy. The magnets just get the atoms moving, which helps with the circulation...same as those who do energy balancing.

Do these wraps have magnetic components or just the ceramic? What we use have both, but I think Back on Track is just ceramic energy technology...I'll have to check.

[Candle]

Back on Track isn't magnetic, and it's done awesome things for my back. I'd try the leg wraps on your horse. The company recommends doing it slowly at first, four hours at a time or so.

[Simkie]

I think magnets are hooey, but this looks interesting.

Would this help my girl with a questionable fetlock? She has a cold osselet, a chip was removed, and depo-deposits were debrided. Post-surgical soreness in the joint was treated first with HA injections and then with IRAP. I Surpass the joint before we work. I'm not sure if warming the joint before we work would help or not. I'm trying to do everything possible to keep her comfortable...

[vxf111]

My trainer is one of the people who suggested the wraps. She had a mare with 2 small chip/breaks in her splint bone. Apparently the mare was sound and fine when worked slowly/carefully and warmed up well before work. The wraps were one way the tried to keep the area warmed up.

I dunno... I am tempted because what's more money down the tube if it WORKS. And if it doesn't work and does no harm, he was supposed to be wrapped in standing bandages-- and this is just another form of wraps...

I wish there was some more concrete evidence about the efficacy of the wraps.

[trubandloki]

I used back on track no bows when my horse was healing a pulled check ligament. The vet said we could not have expected better healing. Did the back on track wraps make the difference? Who knows. But they certainly did not hurt anything.

[Bogie]

I think the magnets are hooey, too. I'm not sure there's any science to recommend them ;). Most of the scientists on this board seem skeptical at best :lol:.

That said, I have the Back on Track quarter-sheet like blanket for one of my horses as he's cold-backed. It's helped tremendously. I believe that what these do is reflect heat effectively so they warm up the area quickly. I've considered buying their knee wrap for myself!

[lindat]

I just had to comment on "magnets are hooey" thoughts...I was really skeptical also - and back when I started using them there were very few studies or little scientific information on their relationship to health and healing. So I used numerous designs and products for 5 years - YES, they do work if designed properly. They have to - simple laws of physics.
Now there are MANY medical studies, research papers, etc. that show what happens with circulation, nerve health, etc...if anyone is interested I can send them some of the links! :- )
There is not as much "proof" or research on the ceramic/FIR but it is out there and I can forward that info also...

[Simkie]

I would be interested in seeing a peer-reviewed study of magnets that has been published in a credible scientific journal. Please let me know where I can find such a paper.

(I really seriously doubt you'll be able to point me to anything. AFAIK, there is ZERO actual research that show magnets, other than the LARGE electromagnets, do ANYTHING.)

[ponyjumper4]

I believe that what these do is reflect heat effectively so they warm up the area quickly. I've considered buying their knee wrap for myself!

That is correct, it reflects the horse's own natural body heat to keep that specific area warm.

[lindat]

Simkie, now it would have been rather silly of me to offer links to studies if they didn't exist, wouldn't it?:)

I do understand your skepticism and I must say I appreciate your willingness to look at the studies - sometimes people who are skeptical are also unwilling to be open to possibilities...

Anyway, here is a link to an abstract from a study published in the Journal of Applied Physiology using static magnetics.
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/103/2/629

I don't have a link for this one but I emailed abstract to you and also complete study for the link above...

“Diabetic Peripheral Neuropathy (DPN) is a common and often disabling complication of diabetes mellitus (DM)…. As many as 16 million diabetics in the United States will experience neuropathic pain at some point in their lives.”
So begins a report in the May 5, 2003, issue of the Archives of Physical Medicine that concludes: “the present study provides convincing data
confirming that the constant wearing of static, permanent, magnetic insoles produces statistically significant reduction of neuropathic pain.”


Weintraub, M. 1999. Magnetic bio-stimulation in painful diabetic peripheral neuropathy: A novel intervention-a randomized, double-placebo crossover study. American Journal of Pain Management 9: 8-17

Let me know what you think or if you want more...

[lindat]

I think magnets are hooey, but this looks interesting.

Would this help my girl with a questionable fetlock? She has a cold osselet, a chip was removed, and depo-deposits were debrided. Post-surgical soreness in the joint was treated first with HA injections and then with IRAP. I Surpass the joint before we work. I'm not sure if warming the joint before we work would help or not. I'm trying to do everything possible to keep her comfortable...

I am really curious as to why you would think magnets are hooey yet you find ceramics interesting...

BTW - I am NOT being sarcastic or argumentative at all. Just curious as to what your experiences were that led you to this belief. There are many poorly designed magnetic products that DO NOT offer benefits - just wondering if you had some experience with them or ????

[elmerandharriet]

i have the back on track polos and a saddle pad and have had good luck

[Simkie]

Ceramics do not purport to have a magnetic field which penetrates tissues. They only claim to reflect body heat back to the horse. What they claim to do is FAR simpler than what the magnet people claim to do.

This abstract: http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/103/2/629 is interesting, but I do not see magnet strength reported anywhere. It also seems to claim magnets decrease venous and arterial diameter, which does not seem congruent with magnets supposedly increasing blood flow.

I can find several articles very quickly that demonstrate magnets do nothing, other than have a strong placebo effect:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=155398

http://www.japmaonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/1/11

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10714732?dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7138256

etc...

How do you refute these studies?

[CBoylen]

We use the BOT wraps (the no-bows are what you want to go with, the pillows are huge), and I've found them to work well. They really help a horse of mine that tends to stock up, better than regular wraps do. We also used them on a horse that had a tendon sheath problem that kept swelling, and they made a significant difference in the swelling (although they didn't fix the actual problem, which required surgery, just in case it sounds like I'm touting a miracle ;)). I see most barns have at least a couple pairs. I'm coveting the mesh sheet, and I've asked around about it and people find it effective as well (although damn expensive).

I wouldn't recommend using them at the same time as surpass though, you're technically not supposed to use any liniment or any medicine under them, especially when they're new and the horse isn't used to them. I've seen people get away with using some things, but I've also heard horror stories about horses tearing up the wraps and the stalls when someone put them on unclean legs.

The other thing you may want to try is finding access to a Gameready, maybe stepping up your cold therapy would make the difference? I think they rent them.

[spoiledsweet]

We use the BOT wraps (the no-bows are what you want to go with, the pillows are huge), and I've found them to work well. They really help a horse of mine that tends to stock up, better than regular wraps do. We also used them on a horse that had a tendon sheath problem that kept swelling, and they made a significant difference in the swelling (although they didn't fix the actual problem,

Ditto. I am a very big fan of BOT products for the horses. I have the no-bows, the mesh sheet (just got it, so I can't comment yet on how well it works) and the polos. I also use the shirt and back brace on myself. They really do help with flexibility and pain relief. Do they speed healing? That I don't know. They certainly can't hurt.

[lindat]

Ceramics do not purport to have a magnetic field which penetrates tissues. They only claim to reflect body heat back to the horse. What they claim to do is FAR simpler than what the magnet people claim to do.


Thanks for explaining this - it makes sense to me why you might think the "more complex" mechanism would not work. Actually the benefits from ceramic products are also complex - it isn't just that they reflect heat. They reflect FIR wave lengths that do penetrate the body. There is a lot of great scientific information on this subject also.

Here is quote from BOT web site:
Southern Pines Equine Associates
"We have compared regular leg wraps to the "Back On Track"ceramic bandages and have documented significant increases in circulation."


This abstract: http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/103/2/629 is interesting, but I do not see magnet strength reported anywhere. It also seems to claim magnets decrease venous and arterial diameter, which does not seem congruent with magnets supposedly increasing blood flow.


I tried to send you the entire study that goes into detail and would have explained the significance of that - here is an excerpt from a report on the study.

"Skalak’s lab leads the field in the area of microcirculation research—the study of blood flow through the body’s tiniest blood vessels. With a five-year, $875,000 grant from the National Institutes of Health’s National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, Skalak and Cassandra Morris, former Ph.D. student in biomedical engineering, set out to investigate the effect of magnetic therapy on microcirculation. Initially, they sought to examine a major claim made by companies that sell magnets: that magnets increase blood flow.

The researchers first found evidence to support this claim through research with laboratory rats. In their initial study, magnets of 70 milliTesla (mT) field strength—about 10 times the strength of the common refrigerator variety—were placed near the rat’s blood vessels. Quantitative measurements of blood vessel diameter were taken both before and after exposure to the static magnetic fields—the force created by the magnets. Morris and Skalak found that the force had a significant effect: the vessels that had been dilated constricted, and the constricted vessels dilated, implying that the magnetic field could induce vessel relaxation in tissues with constrained blood supply, ultimately increasing blood flow.

Dilation of blood vessels is often a major cause of swelling at sites of trauma to soft tissues such as muscles or ligaments. The prior results on vessel constriction led Morris and Skalak to look closer at whether magnets, by limiting blood flow in such cases, would also reduce swelling. Their most recent research, published in the November 2007 issue of the American Journal of Physiology, yielded affirmative results."

The pictures in the complete study show more blood saturation in the tissues through the smaller blood vessels when there was less inflammation in the larger ones. Hope this makes sense - I am not a scientist...so I may not be describing it clearly.


How do you refute these studies?

I don't...I know nothing about the magnets they used. There are LOTS of products that don't offer any health benefits. However there are those that do - correctly designed ones do have an impact on helping the body heal and on body temperature. Thermo scans show the later. The link below might be useful...

http://www.thermoguy.com/pdfs/Diabetic_Article_From_United_Kingdom.pdf

The diabetic study that Dr. Weintraub did (mentioned in above article) was really interesting and showed some changes in nerve function that they were not expecting.

[yellowbritches]

Timely discussion for me, as we just recently splurged and bought a pair of BOT no-bows for a horse with mild, but almost chronic tendinitis. We are also considering the back pad or the mesh sheet, mainly with Paco in mind. We haven't had them long enough to really have a big say in how they work, and the horse we bought them from is past the acute stages of his issues, HOWEVER, he is to the point he can wear them overnight, now. We have noticed that when left in over night, his tendons are a little full in the morning (not quite stocked up, but there is some fluid build up in the tendons) when left totally alone. With plain no-bows, it is better, with the BOTs, his legs are as tight and as cool as if he'd spent the entire night out (our preferred method with him). We are shipping home tomorrow from SC, and he will wear them on the trailer ride, and anytime he has to spend extended times in his stall and after every jump session or gallop (along with cold therapy...hoping a good horse sale will buy us a Game Ready!!!!). I would consider the BOT polos for this horse in a heart beat.

[lindat]

Timely discussion for me, as we just recently splurged and bought a pair of BOT no-bows for a horse with mild, but almost chronic tendinitis. We are also considering the back pad or the mesh sheet, mainly with Paco in mind. We haven't had them long enough to really have a big say in how they work, and the horse we bought them from is past the acute stages of his issues, HOWEVER, he is to the point he can wear them overnight, now. We have noticed that when left in over night, his tendons are a little full in the morning (not quite stocked up, but there is some fluid build up in the tendons) when left totally alone. With plain no-bows, it is better, with the BOTs, his legs are as tight and as cool as if he'd spent the entire night out (our preferred method with him). We are shipping home tomorrow from SC, and he will wear them on the trailer ride, and anytime he has to spend extended times in his stall and after every jump session or gallop (along with cold therapy...hoping a good horse sale will buy us a Game Ready!!!!). I would consider the BOT polos for this horse in a heart beat.

Thats GREAT!!!:)

[Cody]

I am a FIRM believer in BOT quick wrap leg wraps. My Spot pony bowed and tore a tendon in December of 2006. I did take the long recovery, but I religiously used the BOT wraps while he was in the stall and I think that definitely helped him recover quicker.

Had my work schedule at my real job been different we would probably have been ready to compete this spring. That and convincing the vet that I used that he really does need a "cocktail" for me to safely ride him.

However, since my job is fixin' to come to an end, I'm going to have lots and lots of time to be able to put on him.

So yes BOT works in my opinion.

Nancy

[goodmorning]

I would like the exercise rug, but it's a little pricey for experimental purposes :(

I would invest in the leg wraps, not terribly pricey and they may help. They resale pretty well on ebay, so if you find they don't work you probably wont be out too much $$.

[SAS]

Glad to hear such positive reviews of the BOT products. I have always been fascinated by the idea behind them, thought about gettting a set of the no bows and now that my new boy has a slight injury, I splurged and got them. My new kid has an inflamed check ligament and I am planning to use the BOT no bows as my "heat". As Ziggy is just four and is extremely busy with his mouth, I am not able to keep him wrapped over night. So I will use the BOT no bows for shorter peroids of time - while he hand walks, hand grazes and for short period of time in his stall as long as he is eating. I am amazed at how warm they actually get his legs in a short period of time. Hopefully they will help to bring the inflammation down better and faster so that by our next ultra sound in a few weeks we will be good as new.

When he goes back to work, I am also considering buying the polos for every day use - just to keep everything tight.

[vxf111]

I have been using the Back on Track no-bows on Stoney for about a month, off and on. I can't say that see any different results when I compare the leg following a night with the BOT and a night with a regular Wilker's and flannel. I wrapped one arm in each and went around the house for a while and I didn't feel a temperature difference on my arm. I also don't really feel a temperature difference when I remove the wraps from Stoney's legs.

I do think the wrapping is having a positive effect, but I am not convinced that the BOT is doing anything the conventional wrap isn't. For the money, which was reasonable, it was more than worth a try and it's certainly not hurting.

I bought the BOT hock boots too but Stoney just about had a heart attack when he felt a boot on his hock. He's just not used to the sensation.

[Abby Kogler]

I am really impressed with these products. I bought the saddle pad only because it came with free polos. I noticed though, to my surprise, that when used on my oldest mare she was swingier and 'happier'.

Tried it on other horses; bought another; ditto.

Hmmm.

Bought the little back pad thing and put it on them when I trimmed feet or clipped or groomed. The stiffer ones were noticably less stiff.

Hmm.

Bought the hock boots and leg wraps. Have a couple with stocking up issues that dont totally resolve with regular wraps. They looked good after the BOTs. The hock boots helped my 20 yr old WB gelding flex his hocks. It was clearly better after wearing the hock boots.

hmm!

I bought the mattress pad and put it on the bed without telling my husband (aka Dr. Humbug) His back has been bothering him for three months.

Got up, pain free. I about fell out of the bed. Yowza! He said 'its the strangest thing! my back isnt hurting..'

I didnt say a word.

Bought the tshirt, the womens boxers, the back brace for me.

I LOVE them. First am I had worn them I didnt ache anywhere. Whee!

Its wild. You dont feel hot or warm when you wear them...they dont creat heat in that way apparantly. I slept in these the last few hot nights here in SD. I put the mesh sheets on the boys in this 95 degree weather and they did not sweat.

The products are comfortable and comforting. And they really have worked for me, the DH, and the horses.

I think they are reasonably priced esp in light of how well they work.

Abby

[RealityCheck]

I was wondering about the heat aspect-I have the wraps and love them, and I'm thinking about getting a saddle pad/polos while they have the promotional thing going on. Abby (or anybody), have you used the saddle pads in HOT weather (like 90s and humid)?

[Abby Kogler]

It was killer hot last weekend and I used the pads, the mesh sheets, etc etc.

No extra sweating, no sweating under the sheets (and they are BLACK!). Its weird..the skin stays cool.

I can attest to it to..I wore the back support thing and it was not hot, at all.

Nice products. I am sold.

Abby

[Laurierace]

I am making an attempt at jumping on the bandwagon. I ordered the sheet with a free saddle pad, it should be here anytime now. I really want to try the no bows but can't think of a reasonable way to try it since I do the horses up before I leave the track and my groom takes them off first thing the next morning. I know you are only supposed to leave them on for a few hours in the beginning. I can't wait around and switch to regular bandages later on, that is just too much duplicate work. Maybe if the sheet or pad really wows me I will wait around the first few days.

[PNWjumper]

I love the BOT products! I have the sheet, the no bows and the saddle pad and I've noticed a difference with all three. I primarily use the no bows and the sheet on my AO Jumper mare at horseshows and I've noticed that it keeps her a lot "looser" throughout the week (she tends to get pretty sore by the end of a week of jumping, but was as loose and free moving on day 6 as day 1 at the last couple of shows). I also threw the sheet on my OTTB at the last show and I was really surprised to find him--1 hr later--sweating to death under the sheet, but only in the areas where his back tends to get sore. I only left him in it for a short time since he hadn't had it on before, so I can't say whether it did a whole lot to help him that time, but now I'm trying to figure out how to justify ordering a second sheet so that he's got one too.

[talloaks]

With the BOT saddle pad, does it get wet each time you ride so that you have to wash it after each session???? I know you are to wash in cold water only and air dry, so was wondering how many of these BOT saddle pads you would have to own if you were using them.
I do use the BOT wraps on an old retired mare with lymphangitis problems and they bring her legs right down. Also use the hock boots, bought the large size, her hocks came down so much permanently, that I had to go and buy the med size!! Interestingly, the scarring tissue has been coming off too and her legs look great this year, KNOCK ON WOOD!!
Still want to know about the saddle pads and how often they would have to be washed.

[Abby Kogler]

I havent washed mine yet..the horses dont sweat in them any more than a usual pad and they are staying pretty clean. I certainly dont have to wash them after every use at all...It says not to dry them but other than that washing should present no difficulty.

Abby

[spoiledsweet]

I am really liking the BOT mesh sheet that I got earlier in the year. I use it before lessons and horse shows and do feel it makes a difference. I also see a noticeable difference if I use the hock boots before riding. Can't say I noticed any difference with the saddle pad or the polos (which are nice and long and easy to wrap). I of course love the no bows.

For what it's worth, I didn't bother "acclimating" my horses to the BOT products. They're show horses, so they're used to being wrapped with liniments, poulticed, wearing magnetic blankets, etc. Never had a problem.

[knz66]

Have the pillow wraps and the sheet and absolutely love them. Use the wraps on my daughter's older guy that she events on and he has come out tight every time. You can use Sore No More with them.

I like the pillow wraps because they are "huge". I have never been a No-Bow fan and have seen more bow with those than with standard pillow wraps, but thats just me.

2 weeks ago at an event, one of the fellow boarders/showing's horse tied up. We immediately put my sheet on him and do feel like it helped. The weather was insane. One minute pouring down rain and howling winds to 65+ degrees and sun. We wanted to maintain the warmth over his haunches and much as possible and do feel the sheet really helped.

[Hannahsmom]

For my gelding with a lymphangitis leg, they are the only thing that keep the swelling down when he has to be stalled due to a show. I am sold and no longer do poultice after XC either. Instead I wrap with BOT no bow wraps. Have the hock boots...not sure if they are as helpful but love the wraps.

[talloaks]

Would you use the BOT polos when you are exercising your horse, like you use normal polos? Or is there another reason for them?? DUH I know!:lol:

[spoiledsweet]

I use the polos as I would any others. I am assuming that's right. :lol:

Also FWIW, I've used the no bows over liniments besides Sore No More. I apply the liniment and let it dry, then wrap. I've put them over a *little bit* of Bigeloil and over Tendonoil. I will say that I haven't done that to a chestnut.

[jrzeqrider]

not to hijack.. but how exactly do the wraps work..? someone gave them to me as a gift, but i have no idea what to do with them.. the woman said she uses them after shows instead of pultice and standing wraps. is that right? she also said you start out in short incriments of time. about how long should you leave them on? ive got the quick wraps, they kind of look like shipping boots..

[TheOrangeOne]

I just stuck them on overnight and kept an eye on him every hour before I left the barn, and I have not killed my horse. I think they do a significantly better job of reducing swelling than anything else I have tried.

[talloaks]

For my old mare with the lymphangitis problem, I just wrap her legs and put on the hock boots when she is in overnight. I take them off in the morning and voila!! nice thin legs, swelling has disappeared. If she is out a lot she doesn't use the wraps but if she is in due to bad weather she will wear them 12 hours or so at a time. I have never seen any negative reaction with the BOT products at all!! I acutally used one as a 'heating pad' after my surgery and I believe it healed much quicker than normal. I should say I have a new clean and unused on a horse set that I use on myself!!:lol:

[horse-loverz]

Just reviving this to ask do the quick wraps work as well as the no bows for swelling etc. Which would you recomend? Thanks

[Iride]

Where is the best place to buy these products?

[vxf111]

There often seem to be used ones for sale on eBay, bulletin board. Which I think maybe says a little something about whether everyone finds them effective?!

I bought the saddle pad on eBay after buying and trying the no-bows from a tack shop catalog.

[MassageLady]

Or perhaps they worked so well that the horses don't need them any longer, or the people no longer have horses.:winkgrin:

[vxf111]

I dunno... when I find something that really works, I stash it for future use. Or pass it along to someone in my barn who might be able to use it. Especially something like a wrap that doesn't go bad and isn't huge/is easily stored. I suppose it's possible that everyone selling used BOT stuff quit horses entirely, seems a little odd though.

Some things you NEVER find used, which I think says a lot to me about how well those things work. I am thinking about the Jack's Whirlpool boots/McKinnon Ice machines-- it's rare to find those used. And they're not cheap. So you'd think people would sell them on if they were done with them, to recoup their investment in the machines. But it's pretty unusual to find them used in any sort of decent condition.

[Iride]

Then again, I've seen more positive responses as to the perceived effectiveness of BOT products from people on the boards here and very few negative ones, so....

[vxf111]

Never underestimate the amazing power of the human brain. I wanted the BOT wraps and pad to work so badly, I was trying to convince myself that they did. And I do think WRAPPING has a positive effect. So, yes, if you wrap with BOT wraps you will see reduced swelling. I'm just not so sure that it's less than if you wrapped with any old wraps. I really wish there were some actual testing results (not testing the heat but the purported reduction of swelling, and compared not only to an unwrapped leg with a leg wrapped with traditional bandages). I wonder how many times people perceive an effect with a product because the WANT the product to be effective. No one wanted to see an effect more than me :( I just don't think I did.

[Dianna]

Funny, I have never been able to find the BOT products (used) on line, only new. I have been tempted to try them myself. I am curious, does the company have a satisfaction guaranteed policy?