Dressage breeders who also breed Quarter Horses [Archive]

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eurodressage

Mar. 11, 2008, 08:25 AM

eurodressage

Mar. 12, 2008, 03:48 PM

No one a clue? Or a website they can point me at where I can be advised?

A.

not again

Mar. 12, 2008, 03:54 PM

If you PM me I can give you some leads.

camohn

Mar. 12, 2008, 04:08 PM

Hello,

I'm looking for knowledgeable people who are also actively involved in breeding Quarter Horses (Western Pleasure). I know absolutely nothing about Quarter Horses and have a U.S. QH mare at my yard of whom the owner decided to breed her.

The mare is imported from Texas (breeder Jason Schroeder, Amherst, TX) to Europe. She's a former Dutch Western Pleasure National Champion (NQHA) and is now retired. The mare is by Chardonnays Own x Rocket Rider. She has had a foal by Artful Investment and one by Absolute Option.

Can anyone make any suggestions about good Western Pleasure QH stallions. What should I look for? When I look at those QH stallions online I see incredibly stiff moving horses with no suspension, totally downhill. So totally different (the opposite actually) from dressage horses.

Who can provide some help?

Astrid
info@eurodressage.com
www.eurodressage.com

Well I know Paints better than QHs but the idea is the same.
If the horse is stiff that is wrong. It should not be. The neck does in fact come out lower than a dressage horse and some of them CAN be a bit downhill. The goal for a WP is to travel level (but even a little downhill is OK), where a dressage horse is supposed to carry itself uphill. Since the idea behind the WP horse is that it will be pleasant to ride all day across the prarie chasing cows (that for the most part don't move very fast) the horse does not in fact have suspension. It should have a flat/easy gait. It should move easy and relaxed....and often that equates to slow as well. Being relaxed the horse does go with a naturally low headset.
That said there is the geniune WP horse of old and the showring version the WP horse morphed into in the past decade. How it is SUPPOSED to go is at whatever speed is natural and relaxed to the horse. What started to happen is that the horses that were winning in the showring were moving pretty slow and with a lower headset......folks took that to mean that slower and lower headed was what the judge was looking for and started to go really overboard with "slow is good so slower is better" and "low head is good so lower is better". Soon many of the WP horses were trained to go shuffling around with their toes dragging in the dirt and their noses there too. This awful version of the WP horse got termed the Peanut Roller....they were shuffling so much/had lost all the clear beats of the gait they could have rolled a peanut along in the dirt in front of them. The correct WP horse does in fact go slow (as in relaxed, not as in shuffling) and low and part of this DOES come from confo.......but the horrid mess they became is a training issue. The AQHA has recently avowed to change this and penalize horses that go like this but I don't think most folks are seeing the changes in the showring to penalize this habit near as much as we would like to yet. So..........it is slowly swinging back the other way.....just not fast enough!! The ill trained ones do look crippled and it's horrible.

camohn

Mar. 12, 2008, 04:21 PM

OUr TB stallion was also Paint registered. He has a stallion son that is out of a stock type WP and trail horse mare. This is their Paint son:
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/camohn03/?action=view&current=AdamHUSat2.jpg
He is shown as a hunter here but I think the owner (riding him here)'s husband was thinking of showing him WP as well. Makes the point they don't have to look stiff while going low!

Nootka

Mar. 12, 2008, 04:26 PM

i noticed that a lot of the pleasure horses seem more TBy these days.

What about Gwens TB stallion
http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de/gfnitespot.html

http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de/gfglitter.html
http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de/gfalchemist.html

I'm sure i have not helped you much but I figured I would send ya the links anyway;)

TaliaCristianna

Mar. 12, 2008, 04:38 PM

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the stallions listed on Lynn Palm's site.

http://www.lynnpalm.com/

She knows a thing or two about dressage AND western pleasure. Her horses are true all-arounders.

camohn

Mar. 12, 2008, 04:42 PM

http://www.lynnpalm.com/horses_for_sale/my-rugged-destiny.php
of Lynn Palms line up I like him....
I have used this guy
http://www.kevinhoodshowhorses.com/willspotya.htm
The colt I had was lovely and sold at less than 5 days old. I would not encourage you to look at the video clip. He really CAN move a lot better than that. He is shown in the toe dragging "shuffle under saddle" gait...and his isn't even as bad as some!! At least his nose isn't in the dirt.

TaliaCristianna

Mar. 12, 2008, 04:44 PM

http://www.lynnpalm.com/horses_for_sale/my-rugged-destiny.php
of Lynn Palms line up I like him....

I wholeheartedly agree! I believe he's my favorite.

eyesontheground

Mar. 12, 2008, 05:11 PM

Well I know Paints better than QHs but the idea is the same.
If the horse is stiff that is wrong. It should not be. The neck does in fact come out lower than a dressage horse and some of them CAN be a bit downhill. The goal for a WP is to travel level (but even a little downhill is OK), where a dressage horse is supposed to carry itself uphill. Since the idea behind the WP horse is that it will be pleasant to ride all day across the prarie chasing cows (that for the most part don't move very fast) the horse does not in fact have suspension. It should have a flat/easy gait. It should move easy and relaxed....and often that equates to slow as well. Being relaxed the horse does go with a naturally low headset.
That said there is the geniune WP horse of old and the showring version the WP horse morphed into in the past decade. How it is SUPPOSED to go is at whatever speed is natural and relaxed to the horse. What started to happen is that the horses that were winning in the showring were moving pretty slow and with a lower headset......folks took that to mean that slower and lower headed was what the judge was looking for and started to go really overboard with "slow is good so slower is better" and "low head is good so lower is better". Soon many of the WP horses were trained to go shuffling around with their toes dragging in the dirt and their noses there too. This awful version of the WP horse got termed the Peanut Roller....they were shuffling so much/had lost all the clear beats of the gait they could have rolled a peanut along in the dirt in front of them. The correct WP horse does in fact go slow (as in relaxed, not as in shuffling) and low and part of this DOES come from confo.......but the horrid mess they became is a training issue. The AQHA has recently avowed to change this and penalize horses that go like this but I don't think most folks are seeing the changes in the showring to penalize this habit near as much as we would like to yet. So..........it is slowly swinging back the other way.....just not fast enough!! The ill trained ones do look crippled and it's horrible.

The western pleasure horse is an odd beast. I would not personally want to work cows on a western pleasure horse. Yes, I would want a calm horse ready to take on anything but I definently would want something ready to take off after a cow going the wrong way. And I for sure do not want something that could trip and fall on its face while we "jog" across the plains. (The cows I have worked with are pretty effing quick...don't know what kind of cows you have experience with.) Hence the advent of the working cow horse! Which, if you watch, uses alot more of the traditional muscle groups you see being worked in dressage. They work much more off of their haunches than say, the western pleasure horse. But, like you pointed out...it can be very much due to training.

OP, remember that just about anyone with a fence in their backyard and a computer with internet access can set up a "breeding program" with a QH stud and a website. There is no inspection or approval process to be AQHA so be very careful.

Mel0309

Mar. 12, 2008, 05:13 PM

If she wants to do the western pleasure there is one that consistantly produces Congress and World Champions. He is not cheap but he definately sires winners. Look at Zippos Mr. Goodbar at http://www.richlandranch.com/

While many are using TB blood in the QH's for the Hunter events - they are not so much in the western. There are several tried and true bloodlines to look for.

I also like is One Hot Krymsun http://www.onehotkrymsun.com/ For a western pleasure horse he is a natural mover.

I don't do the QH stuff anymore but am still in touch with what is going on and what is winning. IMO those listed in the above posts (ie Lynn Palm) may be nice but are not winning in the QH world.

monami

Mar. 12, 2008, 05:23 PM

I have always loved the offspring of this guy

http://www.zipschocolatechip.com/

camohn

Mar. 12, 2008, 05:24 PM

The western pleasure horse is an odd beast. I would not personally want to work cows on a western pleasure horse. Yes, I would want a calm horse ready to take on anything but I definently would want something ready to take off after a cow going the wrong way. And I for sure do not want something that could trip and fall on its face while we "jog" across the plains. (The cows I have worked with are pretty effing quick...don't know what kind of cows you have experience with.) Hence the advent of the working cow horse! Which, if you watch, uses alot more of the traditional muscle groups you see being worked in dressage. They work much more off of their haunches than say, the western pleasure horse. But, like you pointed out...it can be very much due to training.

OP, remember that just about anyone with a fence in their backyard and a computer with internet access can set up a "breeding program" with a QH stud and a website. There is no inspection or approval process to be AQHA so be very careful.

I agree with ya there. My personal thought is that if someone really tried to ride a show type WP horse across the ranch it would take a looooong time to get there and your horse would have no toes left! The show version is totally non functional as a ranch horse. I don't think there is really anything wrong with how a WP horse is physically built to be a ranch horse though. I think it is a training thing. Now the halter horses not being physically suited to being a working ranch horse is a whole 'nuther ball of wax and already has it's own recent and very long thread!!

Nootka

Mar. 12, 2008, 07:01 PM

I have always loved the offspring of this guy

http://www.zipschocolatechip.com/

That makes 2 of us:yes: I have ridden a few by him an they are awesome.

eurodressage

Mar. 13, 2008, 05:56 AM

Super,

thank you so much for all your responses. Any other suggestions for stallions are very welcome.

The owner wants to breed to a proven AQHA WP Champion so it should be a stallion with a big performance record and proven offspring.

Astrid

not again

Mar. 13, 2008, 06:57 AM

Try researching here:
http://www.selectbreeders.com/

eurodressage

Mar. 17, 2008, 11:56 AM

sixpoundfarm

Mar. 17, 2008, 12:41 PM

Maybe take a look around these sites?

http://www.pleasurehorse.com/

http://www.schwabquarterhorses.com/

monami

Mar. 17, 2008, 02:02 PM

I have heard much about Zips Chocolate Chip but then I wonder if there is no catch to him like you have with Sandro Hits (commercially very hot, but bad hocks or crooked hind legs)..

Which other QH Western Pleasure stallion is as popular as Zips Chocolate Chip?

Many of the ones I have seen have been bred for the HUS market... They all seem to be very pretty and move with little action. I have seen a few WP horses by him as well and although I admittedly do not understand the WP thing.. the were pretty, quiet and sllllloooooowwwww

Hocus Focus

Mar. 19, 2008, 09:36 AM

Although some may beg to differ, the reining horse who is finished in his training is not unlike the upper level dressage horse so if comparisons and similarities are of possible interest to you, do a bit of research in this area.

I have seen demonstrations where they are actually performing together and the Pas de Deux of such contrasting disciplines has a lot of common ground when you get down to it.

A good horse is a good horse, any color any breed.

Not sure anything I have said here reflects on your original question but as "food for thought" perhaps it has merit.