Foaling cam rant

[appaloosalady]

First, let me say that I love being able to watch mares foal on my computer and I appreciate owners who are willing to open their barns up to the public for viewing. I know that things can go wrong even in the best barns with the best care and I know that if I don't like what I am seeing I can turn it off.

That being said, here is my rant. People who don't know enough to be doing what they are doing! I have seen owners stand by and let a foal die because they didn't know enough to put an arm in and see what was going on in order to make an easy reposition. I have seen owners pulling with all of their strength before a mare was even down and pushing and I have seen more owners than I can count pulling a foal straight out instead of down torwards the hocks to follow nature's path. If that is how they choose to do things it really isn't any of my business, but they are being praised to the rooftops for it by people equally ignorant who are watching! What is this teaching people :confused::confused:? How many people are deciding to breed their mare and foal it out by themselves just from info gained watching internet foalings which are not always really handled quite right?

Sorry, I know everybody does things differently and I don't have a problem with that. I know that my chosen foaling method (outside in clean, grassy paddock when weather permits) is not liked by many people, and that is fine, too. My problem is when people's chosen methods or lack of knowledge are deadly or potentially very harmful, yet proclaimed to be fantastic examples of what all breeders should strive for :mad:!

Rant over. Thanks for letting me get that off of my chest :).

[Fairview Horse Center]

I think a lot of us spent time last year on Marestare, but I just can't go there anymore. I will watch someone's mare that I "know", but watching public foalings are like being broke, and living at a meat auction.

[acottongim]

I will say that my mares are on marestare this year for the first time...

It kind of "freaks me out" that there are people watching me, and it always surprises me when someone says that they saw my mare etc. I went on marestare so that some of my friends/family and a couple of my mare's prior owners could share the foaling out with me.

I agree that there are some scary things out there that are on marestare, and I agree that not all that is said on marestare message boards are true/great.

That all being said... my first mare of the year had problems. This was the first foaling that I"ve ever had that had problems and I was scared out of my mind. I am also alone on my farm (vet is 15 mins away) so I don't have the luxury of being able to be in the stall, be on the phone (reception doesn't work inside the stall, just at the door of the stall), etc... so by APPEARANCES, if I'm on the phone with my vet there is no one there.. I also know that there were several people that thought I was pulling when my mare was foalng out, but I wasn't, I was just holding the foal and tryng to 1) keep her from going backwards and 2) and more importantly trying to keep the mare from swinging her into the walls of the stall or drop her (since the mare jumped up part way through the foaling... that was also a mare that is a bit of a spaz). So it can sometimes appear that the person is pulling when they might not be??? and sometimes what is actually happening might not be what is REALLY happening... (that being said, I do think/know that some of the things that happen on some of the cams are not quite right).

[appaloosalady]

acottongim - I know exactly what you are saying, and trust me - I am always willing to give people the benefit of the doubt when things aren't clear. The cases I'm talking about were crystal clear. Negligence, ignorance, and sometimes I think a huge case of showboating for their "fans". Gaaaaaak

[rideagoldenpony]

After watching a mini foal last year that was COMPLETELY mis-handled in a problematic birth -- then SASSY. :eek: :eek: :eek: :mad:

Holy cow. NO THANKS. :no: :mad:

I'm done with MareStare. I was completely unimpressed by the staff, and even more so with the type of people that occupy themselves on their boards.

It's so frustrating and you feel so powerless when something is CLEARLY being mishandled. While I saw some fantastic farms, who did everything just right (even when there were significant problems), the bad far outweighs the good, as far as I'm concerned when it comes to MareStare.

[ahf]

What Fairview said.

I was never the same after Sassy last year. And I don't ever want to see something like that again. I'm done with foal cams (other than the one that runs from my barn to my own house).

[Blonde Filly]

Wasn't there already a thread on this last week? :confused:

Yes there are some very scary things that I've seen on there, but I hate to completely judge being I'm not there. I too have seen the pulling and not downward, diving in before I thought it was called for and some waiting too long. I guess it is a judgement call. I know my first one on marestare the foal was in position correctly but the mare as not pushing yet..I waited and she did get up and I know many wondered why I was not pulling even though they could see the feet in the correct position..I waited on the mare..she was not ready to push for some reason, she then got up and repositioned and laided on the other side before she began pushing. Once she started, I stayed right there and only keep steady pressure to not let the foal suck back in if needed, and this mare did need help pulling, but did need the shoulders rotated a bit back and forth until they cleared..but I did not ever pull, not sure if it looked like I did, but sometimes it may look different than what was going on...as stated above by acottongim and what she was actually doing.

The minis are very hard to watch..they seem to have lots of trouble due to their size. Let's face it, it cost a lot less to feed and breed a mini and so probably more people who are not that experienced at it.

I think you have to pick the farms you want to watch and not watch the ones you don't want to watch. I as a owner, like the extra eyes that are on there to watch while you sleep or have to run an errand...some take it very seriously and really do want to help. I personally only watch mine and my buddy glenhillfarm and I do check in on Belle, she is just such a cool mare and so BiG!!!

[VirginiaBred]

I think a lot of us spent time last year on Marestare, but I just can't go there anymore. I will watch someone's mare that I "know", but watching public foalings are like being broke, and living at a meat auction.

Oh, how I hear you.


No more Mare Stare for me.

[Fairview Horse Center]

acottongim, you did a super job. Not once was I ever thinking that you were doing anything wrong, I just wanted to help you with a second pair of hands. I am not afraid to watch COTH members foal cams, just others. I believe COTHers have tried to get good information and do the best they can. Bad things can still happen, but those I can live with. I am not looking for perfect foalings. Sometimes you do pull straight out. Sometimes you DO go in without a glove. The kind of things that happened on Marestare last year I just don't want to watch, period.

[Sugarbrook]

I watched MareStare recently and viewed a mare just going down and starting to push. All looked well from my limited view. In bounced this man who proceeded to start pulling with all his might, and to make matters worse a lady came in and joined him in the pulling. In less than 30 seconds they had the baby "Pulled" out. Yippee for them. I was horrified.
I too watched the Sassy horror story. So, I watch once in a great while.

[acottongim]

Darlyn... I didn't take it personally, just pointing out that sometimes it is just the perspective and not what is really happening. :)

I have not gone on any of the other barn's cams (ok, well I did hit Genevive's and Norsires... lol) and frankly I WON'T watch the minis. Some of my friends and family members have gotten "hooked" on the marestare thing and they area always asking me about this place or that place and are perplexed when I tell them that I don't go to the barns unless I know them and the level of care... Too much out there for my tastes!

I'm just hoping that the rest of my foalings are EASY from here on out!!! My heart can't do anohter one like Angel's! LOL!

(btw, mommy and baby are still doing great and baby is running mom ragged - she leads the way out to pasture and is very much "IN CHARGE" LOL... I'm going to try and snap a couple of pictures tonight).

[Hampton Bay]

speaking of MareStare, is there another video hosting site where I can password my foaling cam? I only have the cam so that my family can watch my mare foal (my mom is particularly excited about this foal), but I really don't want just anyone to be able to see into my life like that. I guess I am just a private person with stuff like this.

[genevieveg17]

I have been pleased with MareStare. There are some wonderful 'regulars' there that are very helpful. I have a hard time watching the mini's since it seems like they tend to have more problems. There is a thread on MS now about how several of the readers alerted the owner of a mini that had foaled but the sac did not tear open. Those alert MareStarers saved that foals life.
The Sassy incident was horrible and I still have nightmares about what that poor mare had to endure. FWIW - that was not a MareStare hosted cam.

[Blacklabs]

HB you can be on MS and have a private cam and give a security code to only those that you want to watch.There are some people on MS that have a cam and are private.

MS is a service and has no control over who's a responsible owner and who is not.They can shout off cams if they chose or at owners request.I have seen where Heather herself has stepped and talked to owners who were neglectful with their animals.I witnessed one last year and pm her along with others and noticed the next day the situation was improved.Not all owners want to hear that information.
MS offers a good service and has saved foals and mares lives, with that comes seeing the good and the bad.The great thing is one can chose who to watch and who not to watch.

Heather from MS will explain if you contact her about private cams.


For those people who have lots of experience in foaling there are a great deal of people on MS who are looking for someone to help them.One will notice when Genevieve has a foaling the numbers increase watching as many are learning from her.The same is happening this year with Norsire.Many here have a lot to offer to those people who want to learn.There is a Q&A thread and a posting of the do's and don't of foaling would certainly be appreciated so others could read and learn from all of you.They can read off the internet this info but to be able to get from someone who has done for years is invaluable.

I know the Sassy incident is talked and was a terribly incident that happen.I would like to point out that cam was not a MS cam and many learned some very valuable lessons from that incident and are a lot more aware after that occurred.

Please think about helping those that are learning.Not everyone is going to do wonderful job foaling but with your help many will do a lot better.

[awqawq]

acottongim, I was one of the ones watching...and sent you that email since it was the first mare I'd actually caught foaling on there. After I thought about it, the video quality may be what led me to think you were pulling instead of just supporting. The feed was very dark and how do I describe it...blocky?(that probably doesn't make sense but that's the best I can think of to describe it right now) maybe so I couldn't really see the details, just the general image. It could have just been my computer though.

BTW, thank you for the email response and I had no idea you were on COTH.

[acottongim]

oh, too funny awqawq...

Yes, I've been on COTH forever it seems lol. And I really liked/appreciated your email. Yes, for whatever reason, my cam is dark (right click on the picture and you can adjust the brightness under video settings... moving it all the way to the right really helps). I've done all I can do to get it as clear as I can and even have the main barn lights on over the stall. :)

Some first viewing LOL.

[Kenike]

I didn't give up on Marestare (though I don't watch many of the Wefoal cams any longer. And I can't give my time to those who still manage to give service to the people involved with Sassy from last year). Do I see thing I really dislike? Yes!! Very big YES!! Even from a couple of reputable barns in the show world (I'm talking H/J, Dressage barns). There are certain barns and situations I just won't watch. Simple as that.

However, I also see good things.

Genevieve is one example (since she posted here already) of those to learn from. So, I'll keep dealing with Marestare because of the people like her.

[ponypile!]

Am I allowed to ask what happened with Sassy?

I stopped watching the mare stares because I can't handle all the interfering that goes on with the mares. It makes me hurt inside to see people YANKING on feet that have barely shown themselves. Poor mares, that has to hurt so bad!

[Fairview Horse Center]

Some of the Sassy fiasco http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=87469&highlight=sassy&page=157

[Pippin]

i have to say Marestare has also been educational for me as a viewer.. yes i have to stand back , not knowing exactly what is going on or why ... but what i have seen has helped me HUGELY in some of my scary foaling out experiences.... becus i watched some of the bigger barns deal with it .. & how they did
Watched a red bag being delivered successfully with mare standing up.. watched a reposition of a foal with vet and butt of mare right in camera view.. These things i have read about but never have seen..
So if you take it as a educational opportunity , .. i say WATCH & STARE..

also some of the bonds folks make with some mares.. Fat Red Mare comes to mind.. and the suggestions that some have done to make it easier for others in hand feeding or taking care of a ill foal / mare..

yes there are always a few bad apples... but i sure would not let them spoil the rest..

happy MARESTARING..

P~

[Laurierace]

You know even with being a very small time breeder with a norm of one foal ever other year or so, I still have had my share of things go wrong. I had one foal born with no eyes, I had a mare rupture her uterine artery and bleed out four days before her due date, I had one abort last year a 273 days. Its not for the weak hearted, thats for sure.
That said, I am almost to the point where even I can't stand to watch MareStare anymore. They are dropping like flies over there, especially the minis. I watched them pull one from a mini where they had to brace their feet against the mare and pull with all their might to get the foal out. I know you gotta do what you gotta do, but at what point does it become almost cruel to breed those poor mares? I was actually toying with the idea of getting a mini at New Holland to keep around as a companion for the foal(s) but am having second thoughts after seeing what those mares went through to bring that mini into the world. Almost like buying a puppy mill puppy.

[2 tbs]

Since I became a Suerte hostage last year I have watched many many cams. I have no clue about breeding and foaling but I've been around plenty over my 23 years of riding/horse ownership.

I learned TONS last year and as horrifying as it was, I even learned from poor sweet Sassy. I take what makes sense, what I know of horses, what I've seen from the mares that have foaled around me over the years, plus the over abundance of info I learned last year and watch with caution.

I never belonged to marestare until this year. I only joined because I got caught up in the Glenhill thread (of course! :D ). I refused to go there last year when we had the whole marestare vs coth battle through the Sassy saga but in my short time this year I can honestly say most of the folks there are kind hearted and watch because they enjoy it.

Some may not be knowledgeable about horses let alone foaling but they are good people and are always supportive. I'm sure there are times they should be less happy and more critical but criticizing on a message board doesn't really get your anywhere. The best course would be a pm to that breeder or contact the mods at marestare and let whatever is "wrong' be dealt with privately.

I think well of the posters at marestare. They are only hoping for the best in all circumstances. I think it speaks volumes about the characters of those that aren't horse people - they will stay awake and watch all hours of the night for someone states, or even countries away just because they want to help. Since the cams are separate from the message board-I suggest staying away from the board especially if you happen to watch a cam where things go "wrong". Personally I stay away from all mini's (except one...she's just too cute!) because the few I watched last year scared me too much. I don't even read those threads-I don't want to hear any sad stories about them.