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solargal
Mar. 6, 2008, 09:16 AM
Anybody been following this horse? Rumor is his next start is in the Florida Derby. He hasn't ran against the best horses but his wins have been dramatic. He did have some sort of injury last year, but they won't say what.

This is his race yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L-vrpMD8PA

You can see his debut that was also very impressive on cal racing.

Glimmerglass
Mar. 6, 2008, 11:23 AM
His effort of yesterday was cited in the 'derby thread' and I thought someone inquired about him before in 2007 on that thread too.

The FL Derby will potentially get a few hopefuls who otherwise aren't being cited as leading KY Derby contenders: Tomcito (http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=43882) and Hey Byrn (http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=43872) come to mind.

Calico
Mar. 6, 2008, 02:34 PM
I was the one who inquired about him on the "triple crown class" thread! He was/is my early Derby pick. So glad he's back and lookin' fine!

Glimmerglass
Mar. 6, 2008, 06:25 PM
I don't think it was pointed out, but the race Wed was supposed to be on turf. However was moved to the main dirt course. It might support to some degree why this grass field didn't materialize as expected.

IEAH Stables "Big Brown dazzles in return" (http://www.ieah.com/cgi-bin/news_article.cgi?news_id=1001670)


The race was originally scheduled for the turf and moved to the main track due to rain. That resulted in the scratches of Akin, Sailor's Cap, Cyryaco, Moral Compass, Caberneigh, and Il Girasole, and reduced the field size to five, ages 3 and up, which have never won a race other than maiden, claiming, or starter, or which have never won two races.


He cruised the wire with one mile complete in 1:35.66 over a fast main track and earned a 104 Beyer Speed Figure.

DLee
Mar. 6, 2008, 06:58 PM
Did I read right he is going to run in the Bluegrass? He was impressive! :yes:

Glimmerglass
Mar. 7, 2008, 01:35 PM
Did I read right he is going to run in the Bluegrass?

He's owned by the syndicate partnership IEAH Stables (who also owns Kip Devile, et al) and it would appear they are going to point him to the Grade 1 $1 million Florida Derby on March 29th. Keeneland and the Blue Grass was another option and perhaps on paper more logical with his grass background mating better with the poly-track at Keeeneland.


"We got to thinkin' and drinkin' last night, and, by the time we were done, we decided the Florida Derby would be the best option," said Dutrow, who trains Big Brown for the IEAH Stables and Paul Pompa Jr. "Since he was well within himself and really didn't have to give his best effort in this race, bringing him back in 24 days for the Florida Derby is no problem at all. And I love the five weeks we'd have to the Kentucky Derby if things continue to work out for us."

Dutrow also said he has secured the services of jockey Kent Desormeaux for the Florida Derby, even though the veteran rider had been scheduled to ride on the Dubai World Cup card that same day.

"Wherever Big Brown goes, Mr. Desormeaux will go," said Desormeaux's agent, Mike Sellito.

Source: DRF 3-6-08 (http://www.drf.com/news/article/92782.html)

I think after Curlin last year jumping up in class so fast a lot of people who would've scoffed at this fairytail plan might be a bit less vocal. I still have to shake my head and wonder what they are thinking. However the field does look to be coming up a bit weak so there is a decent chance to get up there for a piece. One big gun in that race will be Elysium Fields who ran across that track to 2nd in the Grade 2 $350k Fountain of Youth on Feb 29th.

Other FL Derby entries expected:

Hillsbrook Farms’ Cool Gator, Robert LaPenta’s Da’Tara, Robert Evans’s Elysium Fields, M375 Thoroughbreds and Suarez Racing’s Golden Spikes, Bea Oxenberg’s Hey Byrn and Jetset Racing’s Tomcito

Texarkana
Mar. 7, 2008, 01:43 PM
Wow, Desormeaux must really think highly of him. I can't imagine giving up a mount in the richest race in the world for just any horse. :yes:

miss_critic
Mar. 7, 2008, 07:04 PM
I heard or read somewhere that Big Brown has some feet issues. I should qualify that I am pretty sure it was about Big Brown-problems keeping him sound etc etc. That worries me.

Beezer
Mar. 7, 2008, 07:49 PM
I heard or read somewhere that Big Brown has some feet issues. I should qualify that I am pretty sure it was about Big Brown-problems keeping him sound etc etc. That worries me.

The Bloodhorse article quotes his trainer as saying BB has had hoof issues, including a couple of quarter cracks, and that's what kept him on the shelf for so long.

dressagetraks
Mar. 7, 2008, 10:53 PM
Okay, nothing against the horse himself, who does sound very promising, but WHO comes up with these names?????

Surely they could have done better than that. OTOH, it beats the Green Monkey.

Texarkana
Mar. 7, 2008, 11:10 PM
Okay, nothing against the horse himself, who does sound very promising, but WHO comes up with these names?????

Surely they could have done better than that. OTOH, it beats the Green Monkey.

I couldn't agree more. I mean, Big Brown? Big Truck? Spanky Fischbein? Laysh Laysh Laysh? Gayego? Surely if people are paying thousands of dollars a month to keep these horses in training at the top level, they can pay someone to come up with better names!

God forbid he wins the Triple Crown. I can see it now-- Gallant Fox... War Admiral... Citation... Affirmed... Big Brown. It just doesn't work. :lol:

Toadie's mom
Mar. 8, 2008, 12:58 AM
I feel a swamee exacta coming on with Big Brown and Big Truck.

Too bad Big Brown is with Dutrow, I can't stand that guy. :mad: Did anyone see the interview with him after the BC? That was just one of many I've seen confirming that he has no class. I'm sure someone on here likes him, and I'm no Queen Elizabeth, but jeez he's crude.

miss_critic
Mar. 8, 2008, 10:20 AM
BB was supposedly named for Phil Lesh's bass. While I agree it's not the most refined name, I don't hate either. The meaning behind it is kind of cool if it is true.

Glimmerglass
Mar. 9, 2008, 05:27 PM
BB was supposedly named for Phil Lesh's bass.

Bass? As in fish? Or guitar?

Randy Moss at ESPN weighs in on Big Brown (perhaps they should approach UPS for sponsorship - "what can big brown do for you")

ESPN Randy Moss 3-8-08 "Durability a question mark for latest phenom, Big Brown" (http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/triplecrown08/columns/story?columnist=moss_randy&id=3283951)

excerpts regarding sire and dam:


His sire, Boundary, did not race until April of his 3-year-old season. He was brilliant in his first two starts, then went back on the shelf the rest of the year. When Boundary made it back in January 2004, he reeled off three more wins in succession. Boundary ran six times in all as a 4-year-old, outrunning ultimate Breeders' Cup Sprint winner Cherokee Run in the A Phenomenon Stakes at Saratoga in August before the injury bug surfaced again and sent him to the stud barn.

Big Brown's dam, Mien, finally raced in September of her 3-year-old season. After two races and a maiden win at Pimlico, she was done for good. Mien was a daughter of the great sire Nureyev, who had to be retired after just three starts on the track.

And he's had hoof issues? Shocker ...


But in my opinion, the basic premise holds true. Nowadays, potential talent is king, while potential durability is nothing but a lowly servant.

In this instance, Dutrow says Big Brown has already battled two quarter cracks in his brief career, and it can be surmised that he started on grass last summer because that surface would be easier on his brittle feet. Clearly, Big Brown is a phenomenally talented colt, but he may have too much in common with Badge of Silver, another shooting star on the Derby radar screen several years back with colossal talent but whose legs were too fragile to get him to the promised land.

miss_critic
Mar. 9, 2008, 11:37 PM
http://www.phillesh.net/
They are a band. Yeah, fish would be pretty funny though :D

Linny
Mar. 10, 2008, 11:41 AM
Big Brown is a reference to the college sports team of the prior owner, who gave him the name.

Big Truck is by Hook and Ladder. I have no idea who Spanky Fischbein is named for.

Glimmerglass
Mar. 10, 2008, 12:05 PM
Big Brown is a reference to the college sports team of the prior owner, who gave him the name.

Really? I thought the owned Paul Pompa Jr has retained a 25% stake outright and he graduated from Kings College in Wilkes-Barre, PA (http://www.ntra.com/stats_bios.aspx?id=28746) - a liberal arts, reglious affiliated school with the mascott the Monarchs.

Linny
Mar. 10, 2008, 03:02 PM
That was what I was told, I never verified it. Maybe "Big Brown" refers to a team that Pompa supports or follows?

miss_critic
Mar. 10, 2008, 08:54 PM
I wonder why there are 2 stories out there. Well, if he does really well, we shall find out!

Glimmerglass
Mar. 21, 2008, 06:01 PM
He put in a solid work out with another turf star from the IEAH stables for March 19th (http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=44164):


IEAH Stables and Paul Pompa Jr.’s rapidly developing 3-year-old colt Big Brown fired a bullet workout March 19 at Palm Meadows, solidifying his potential as the favorite in the Florida Derby.

Under jockey Kent Desormeaux, the two-for-two son of Boundary drilled a handy five furlongs in 1:00 2/5. It was the fastest of eight works at that distance that morning, including stablemate and 2007 Breeders’ Cup Mile winner Kip Deville.

“I know he worked good again,” trainer Rick Dutrow Jr. said. “The plan has been going well, and he’s done everything we wanted him to do so far.”



Although compared to the another Palm Meadows-based runner, Tomcito, that was not as fast. The Peruivian-shipper went faster but at Gulfstream. They'll face off in the Florida Derby :)

lizathenag
Mar. 21, 2008, 06:18 PM
http://www.phillesh.net/
They are a band.

They may be a band but he was the bass guitarist for the Grateful Dead. Oh I feel so old.

solargal
Mar. 29, 2008, 09:47 PM
Big Brown ran in the Florida Derby. In the 29 runnings since the track was redone no horse has won from the 11 or 12 post. He was the number 12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnomqXMqBmY

I won't spoil who won it for those that didn't see. Tomcito was also in the race. Interesting to note he trains without a saddle.

Calico
Mar. 31, 2008, 01:34 PM
This is especially sweet since Boundary was pensioned in 2005. I am fond of the Boundaries, and could not keep my eyes off of Big Brown at Saratoga last September.

B.B. even impressed Jerry Bailey - not an easy thing to do!

Beezer
Mar. 31, 2008, 02:50 PM
Wow. Just wow.

I'm crossing everything in hopes he continues developing into the monster that he appears destined to be. :yes:

miss_critic
Mar. 31, 2008, 10:30 PM
Big Brown ran in the Florida Derby. In the 29 runnings since the track was redone no horse has won from the 11 or 12 post. He was the number 12.



This is kind of deceiving and possibly over hyped. First, how many times was there a #12 and second, who was out there? His race was great and his move of the gate was great, but I don't think there are enough #s to say a horse lost bc of the post. On the flip side, I wonder if a lot of horses are scratched if they get the outside post. He could very well get post 16 in the derby if he makes it, so its good practice :)

Iride
Apr. 1, 2008, 07:39 AM
Speaking of Big Truck, my friend and I were just saying how funny the name Monster Truck would be for a horse :lol:

Glimmerglass
Apr. 1, 2008, 08:58 AM
Impressive victories all of them and the we'll see what he can do on the first Saturday in May.

As much as any fan hopes for the quasi-cinderella story we've all been down this path before.

Take a hard working green horse with only a handful of starts and put him in the Derby: before Curlin there was Showing Up in 2006 who despite being owned by the Jacksons took a major back seat to Barbaro.

Showing up won three priors [two allowances, very impressively - like Big Brown] before making his Derby start. Despite a gash from the Grade 2 Coolmore Lexington Stakes and a two-week turnaround, Showing Up ran a creditable sixth in the Derby while making just fourth career start.

Or you can look at a horse that continually had feet problems but was capable of monster performances before the Derby: 2005's Bellamy Road. He crushed (almost an understatement) the field in the Wood Memorial - taking it by 17-lengths. Only put in one prior bad effort over his career before, he was the contender going in 5 4-0-0 to the Derby and went off at 2.6 to 1 odds. All those high hopes and he was a country mile behind at the finish of the Derby taking 7th place. He'd only start once again in his career with the Travers Stakes finishing 2nd.

Hopefully like Curlin people can separate the horse from the team and perhaps those on it who aren't the most respectable. Rick Dutrow is not without a history of previous multiple infractions and at times even mocking them them so he's not exactly a feel good Nick Zito type trainer.

Big Brown has punched his ticket for the big one so hopefully his presence will add that much more to the sport. I'll remain a bit more cautious as I just cannot expect him to keep rising to these high expectations each time.

hipsdontlie
Apr. 2, 2008, 08:30 PM
very well put gg. thought bellamy road ran his race and burned himself out that day. why is someone saying how its sweet bc boundary is pensioned ?? i thought big brown is by hook an ladder ?? its a long road til that 1st weekend in may for certain.

Texarkana
Apr. 2, 2008, 11:45 PM
why is someone saying how its sweet bc boundary is pensioned ?? i thought big brown is by hook an ladder ??

Big Brown is by Boundary.

Big Truck is by Hook and Ladder.

Such great and distinctive names we have this year, haha. ;) (Kidding, kidding...)

Barnfairy
Apr. 2, 2008, 11:49 PM
Speaking of Big Truck, my friend and I were just saying how funny the name Monster Truck would be for a horse :lol:Iride, there is a TB named Monster Truck (http://www.pedigreequery.com/monster+truck), and he was listed on CANTER NE at the end of Suffolk's meet last year.

Glimmerglass
Apr. 3, 2008, 10:22 AM
Let the silly talk and insane dollars flow - my word this is nuts. One of the more crazy ones: NBC Mike Brunker 4-1-08 "Brittle feet Big Brown's biggest obstacle" (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/23889481/) .. maybe it was supposed to be his April Fools Day article?


In fact, I’ll shinny out even farther out on the limb: This is a colt with the talent to end the 29-year Triple Crown drought as long as his troublesome hooves don’t act up and he can overcome his woeful lack of experience to win the Kentucky Derby after just three lifetime starts.

Ah, yes the annual rite of someone in the press saying X horse will be the Triple Crown champion ....


Big Brown is a graduate of Keeneland’s 2007 April 2-Year-Olds in Training sale, where owner Paul Pompa Jr. had the foresight to sign a check for the bargain price of $190,000. There are varying reports as to how much International Equine Acquisition Holdings paid for a three-quarters share of Big Brown after the colt effortlessly won his debut on the turf by 11 ¼ lengths on Sept. 3.

Horseraceinsider.com’s Executive Editor John Pricci pegged the price Monday at $2.25 million, while Blood Horse correspondent Steve Haskin had it at “about $3.5 million.” He also quoted unidentified sources close to the horse as saying that an investment group offered the ridiculous sum of $30 million for the horse after the Florida Derby.

On the other hand, that hefty price may well turn out to be a bargain if the colt lives up to the promise he made on Saturday.

We've seen plenty of horses with talent to pull out wow runs but limited by physical issues - how about Candy Ride? Worth $30M? Yea, sure right.

Texarkana
Apr. 3, 2008, 11:02 AM
I loved this laudable line from the Mike Bunker article:


Quarter cracks – the equivalent of a torn thumbnail in humans -- in both front feet kept him from making his 3-year-old debut until March.

I'm sure his connections wish he just had a torn thumbnail. :lol:

dressagetraks
Apr. 3, 2008, 02:23 PM
I still just can't picture that name on the TC winners list. Geez, I'm going to have to get into racehorses some day just to be able to name some myself. Hate to judge namers until I've had to go through the process of getting all your top pics rejected, but I really do think they could have done better.

Impressive horse, though.

Heard a funny story once about Assault. Some corporate exec declared up front that he was going to name the new restaurant opening up after that year's KD winner, i.e. the ______ room. He reconsidered after the fact. Somehow, the Assault Room just doesn't work.

Calico
Apr. 3, 2008, 04:23 PM
When I asked about him months ago, after his maiden victory at Saratogo, I had no idea he'd become the freak of the week. Darnit. Things in Brunker's article like "second coming of Secretariat" and "best 3-year old race in many a year" are really stupid (not to mention the quarter crack nonsense - torn thumbnail indeed).

He's a good, classy horse with an impressive GI performance. Lots of time to go. But since he was one of my picks before anyone knew who he was, I'll continue to root for him when he runs, overly-hyped or not :D

Glimmerglass
Apr. 4, 2008, 11:51 AM
Well they've secured the rights and now they've made the horse hat for the team:

The "Big Brown" baseball cap (http://www.horsehats.com/BigBrown.html)

I still have from long ago the limited offering black Funny Cide baseball cap and my wife has Galloping Grocer one which makes sense with her food-product background.

ravenclaw
Apr. 4, 2008, 12:06 PM
Big Brown is by Boundary.

Big Truck is by Hook and Ladder.

Such great and distinctive names we have this year, haha. ;) (Kidding, kidding...)

I think it would be pretty cool if Big Brown and Big Truck ran 1-2 in the Derby. :lol:

Florida Fan
Apr. 4, 2008, 06:24 PM
Don't minimize Big Brown---or Florida racing. It is always tough. I watched Big Brown, and he made it look easy. Jock just waved the stick. He circled the field, lengthened his stride, won by 7. And he is not even fully racing fit. He has only run 3 times. Barbaro had to run all out (I know you guys love him) to win here. Like Curlin who raced like a wavy line when he was three. Since now developing maturity, he has a different style----and he is labeled "the fastest horse in the world." Interesting to watch and speculate. Especially being an old timer--I rememeber watching Secretariat as a 2 yo. when I was racing up north.

Iride
Apr. 11, 2008, 04:15 PM
Iride, there is a TB named Monster Truck (http://www.pedigreequery.com/monster+truck), and he was listed on CANTER NE at the end of Suffolk's meet last year.

Ha ha! I should have known. Though I would have imagined Monster Truck as a rodeo horse in Texas somewhere or something like that :lol:

Glimmerglass
Apr. 11, 2008, 04:31 PM
An interesting although graphic video on the topic of quarter cracks byIan McKinley of New Jersey (http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2008/04/quarter-crack-repair-why-hoof-impaired.html) the "quarter crack expert" consulted for Big Brown's hoof problem.

InWhyCee Redux
Apr. 11, 2008, 05:17 PM
Pompa (one of the owner) told the Lexington Herald-Leader that the horse was named for UPS — he was in trucking and "the Big Brown" was a big client.

I looooooved the horse in Florida; looooved the fractions and loooooved the Beyers. But what I loved most was how CALM and mature he looked in the Post Parade — my #1 Derby pick over Pyro/Smooth Air. ;)

Madeline
Apr. 12, 2008, 10:08 AM
I think it would be pretty cool if Big Brown and Big Truck ran 1-2 in the Derby. :lol:

Would that be the UPS perfecta?

Barnfairy
Apr. 12, 2008, 01:57 PM
Would that be the UPS perfecta?

:lol:

Dispatcher
Apr. 12, 2008, 04:41 PM
Would that be the UPS perfecta?

Very Clever!!

Glimmerglass
Apr. 22, 2008, 01:49 PM
Regarding Big Brown and the all too common speculation of value "if" he does this or that ...

New York Times 4-21-08 "Big Brown’s Stock Is Up, but It Could Really Soar" (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/21/sports/othersports/21racing.html)

Interesting aside with IEAH:


I.E.A.H. is applying the lucrative lessons its founders learned on Wall Street to an industry that has proved inscrutable to many other successful businessmen. It is currently raising $100 million to buy, sell and breed horses, and it will operate like a hedge fund, collecting management and performance fees. The founders want to take the company public before the end of the year.

I'd have to say this - having a hedge fund of sorts involved with racing only means one thing: more horses going to the shed and increased output and sent to auction. Two of the worst possible things. A fund is not going to let a horse race go back to the track at age 4 and enter 5 stakes races and maybe earn $800k in total purses from it vs. going to the shed and getting maybe $10M upfront. It will never happen.

Iride
May. 2, 2008, 10:37 AM
Does anyone know anything more about this hedge fund project that I.E.A.H. is trying to form?

Glimmerglass
May. 2, 2008, 10:58 AM
Does anyone know anything more about this hedge fund project that I.E.A.H. is trying to form?

Louisville Courier-Journal May 1, 2008 "Racehorse hedge fund considered; Participants could invest in a portfolio" (http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080501/BUSINESS/805010353/1037/SPORTS08)

excerpt


Cot Campbell, who is often credited as a pioneer in ownership syndicates for racing through his Dogwood Stable, said he prefers smaller groups.

"It is not my cup of tea," he said of the IEAH model.

Iavarone said, "As long as we're within the law … I don't care what people think whether it's a good idea or it's not."

Commentary from HedgeWeek:

HedgeWeek May 2, 2008 "Hedge fund heads for the races" (http://www.hedgeweek.com/articles/detail.jsp?content_id=252081)

I'll go on record in saying it is a bad idea. Period.

jewll27
May. 3, 2008, 06:11 PM
does anyone know how TALL big brown is??

AppJumpr08
May. 3, 2008, 06:18 PM
WHOOOEEE!!!

What a run!!!

:eek::eek::eek:

bascher
May. 3, 2008, 06:18 PM
Congratulations to him! Kentucky Derby winner from the far outside!!!

Kenike
May. 3, 2008, 06:20 PM
Fantastic race and he so very well deserves that win!! Congratulations to Big Brown!

Glimmerglass
May. 15, 2008, 12:23 PM
Does anyone know anything more about this hedge fund project that I.E.A.H. is trying to form?

A bit further about the fund Associated Press May 15, 2008 (http://www.iht.com/bin/printfriendly.php?id=12899423)

excerpts


The company's primary business plan is to turn IEAH's stable of horses into a hedge fund which operates much like a mutual fund in that it pools investors' money to buy diverse assets.

Hedge funds usually have high minimum investments and tend to have very high risk profiles. Instead of stocks or exotic securities, the IEAH fund's assets would be horses. Its returns will come from prize money, breeding rights and horse sales.

IEAH Stables, a unit of the holding company that runs the horse business, would also have a stake in the fund and would receive fees for managing the assets, probably 2 percent of total assets, plus 20 percent of profits, Iavarone said.

An independent appraiser like the kind breeders use when buying insurance policies will make a quarterly valuation of the fund's assets, and then investors can sell shares or buy more if they like during a two-week window.

"All you have to do is write one check and we're gonna make you money in thoroughbred racing," said Iavarone, surrounded by a clutter of racing magazines at IEAH's Long Island offices.

IEAH's vast success on the track is bulging the company's balance sheet. Iavarone said it will book $70 million in revenue this year, up from $10 million in 2007 "and more than 50 percent of that is going to be pure profit," he said.

Much of that, of course, will come from Big Brown, who turned into a rainmaker with the Derby win. His breeding rights are worth an estimated $70 million or more and he is likely to command at least a $100,000 stud fee after he is retired from racing.

Iavarone said he expects to announce a deal worth "several tens of millions" for a share of Big Brown's breeding rights, perhaps as soon as Thursday. That's a hefty return on the reported $3 million investment.

IEAH is more than just Big Brown, though. The company won the 2007 Breeder's Cup Mile with Kip Deville and took home the $2 million purse at the Dubai Golden Shaheen with Benny the Bull.

Such success, especially early on, comes against long odds only about 2 percent of thoroughbreds bought at auction wind up in the winner's circle. Yet IEAH-owned horses have won 25 percent of the races they've entered this year, bringing in $4.2 million in prize money.

"We only buy proven horses," Iavarone said. "They cost more, but we can afford them and so far they've won."

The wins will almost surely allow the men to meet their goal of raising $100 million from about 50 investors for the hedge fund.

"I can raise that in a week," Iavarone said, even with a minimum buy-in of $500,000.

Schiavo said he just received a copy of the preliminary prospectus that they hope to send out next month.

"It's a lot more fun to follow your investment at the track than on the stock charts," he said.

Not sure how rosey this fund would be long term. Yes, buying top horses will produce winners here and there of big stakes races but long term? Just look at Calumet Farm - nothing lasts for ever (being on top) in racing.

Again I'll ring the warning bell that a massive operation like this (which is far different from the smaller outfits like Dogwood or West Point) will have an impact when $100M in horse flesh in pressed into the game and 20% returns or more are demanded. The impact won't necessarily be a good one either.

merrygoround
May. 16, 2008, 07:33 AM
Seems to me that about 25 years ago, a NJ based group was doing the same thing, with cold call telemarketing. I laughed at them then, the owner/ originater eventually got prosecuted but not before cutting quite a swath in the racing world.

Names escape me. :( Glimmer, knowing you, you'll find it. :)

Glimmerglass
May. 17, 2008, 12:34 AM
Are you thinking of First Jersey Securities founder Robert Brennan?

Looks like UPS is happy with being part of Big Brown: Wall Street Journal 5-17-08 "UPS Extends Its Pact To Sponsor Big Brown" (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121098135648100193.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)


The Atlanta delivery giant has extended its exclusive sponsorship of the hottest colt in the sport, who happens to bear the century-old company's nickname. Big Brown's victory in the Kentucky Derby two weeks ago only further convinced UPS that its sponsorship dollars were likely to be money well spent. The company has extended its agreement to be Big Brown's exclusive sponsor at the Preakness and at the Belmont Stakes on June 7.

merrygoround
May. 17, 2008, 07:14 AM
Are you thinking of First Jersey Securities founder Robert Brennan?

Looks like UPS is happy with being part of Big Brown: Wall Street Journal 5-17-08 "UPS Extends Its Pact To Sponsor Big Brown" (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121098135648100193.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)

I sure was. I just couldn't remember the name. Could well be the same game, or a close relative.:)

Glimmerglass
May. 17, 2008, 10:15 AM
Robert Brennan is still in Fort Dix serving jail time. What is sad is that a lot of New Jersey's racing went down the tubes with him. For all that swindeling of small investors he did pump a lot into Garden State racing. (I assume in future hopes of just milking more from people on an even more grand stage)

He was the one who effectively challenged the Triple Crown by offering the mega-purse for the Jersey Derby. It might be shocking today but in 1985 it was Spend a Buck who won the Derby with the 4th fastest time to this day, but then skipped the Preakness and the Belmont to shoot for a richer prize (then) in the $2M Jersey Derby at Garden State Park. Then in 1986 Snow Chief won the Preakness and then bypassed the Belmont in favor of the Jersey Derby too.

findeight
May. 17, 2008, 10:50 AM
Yeah...and perhaps these fund managers will end up where many of the smoke and mirror, hedge type speculative fund mangers do as well. In an adjoining cell.

Because how in hell can they run back to this one with anything else if he does win the TC? Where do you go from there? "Hey look what we did, look how much money we made. Let us do that for you" and then they come up with a few 450k yearlings that end up 4500 claimers that don't get syndicated for a bazillion bucks.

Maybe this will take care of itself given a little time.

merrygoround
May. 17, 2008, 11:34 AM
It always does but the little guy gets burned.

Drvmb1ggl3
May. 17, 2008, 06:20 PM
This is one of the best horses I have ever seen.
He was f@$%îng playing with them out there.

~Freedom~
May. 17, 2008, 06:25 PM
I thought I saw him stop for tea down the home stretch. :winkgrin:

Drvmb1ggl3
May. 17, 2008, 06:28 PM
You guys are going to get sick of me saying this... but this horse is an absolute monster. He has yet to break a sweat.

All I can say is Casino Drive better be good...... really really damn good.
It's going to be some Belmont.

Iride
May. 17, 2008, 06:29 PM
He was barely breathing or even sweating after! Humbling ain't the word!!

tarragon
May. 17, 2008, 06:33 PM
My god, he really is a freak! I hope we actually get to see him really go all out before he's retired to stud. So far it looks like nothing has been a real effort for him.

Drvmb1ggl3
May. 17, 2008, 06:36 PM
Did you see this horse accelerate under a hand ride.... total gear change with push of the wrists.
He can run with the pace, stalk, be checked, brought back, be taken wide and still be completely within himself to open up with the push of a button.
A freaking monster!

Sannois
May. 17, 2008, 06:37 PM
What a cool horse. In every sense of the word. Kent rode him so well.
That boy was still ful of running after the finishline.
I love his calm attitude. I dont dare even talk about the belmont for fear of jinxing. I loved the shot of Kent leaning down and hugging him . Nice race! :yes:;):)

Sannois
May. 17, 2008, 06:40 PM
Did you see this horse accelerate under a hand ride.... total gear change with push of the wrists.
He can run with the pace, stalk, be checked, brought back, be taken wide and still be completely within himself to open up with the push of a button.
A freaking monster!
Goosebumps the whole way.
Was like a Saturday afternoon hack. With no company!!! :D:lol::lol:

Iride
May. 17, 2008, 06:44 PM
HA HA! Gotta love Kent's remarks in the interview -- "We just cantered along..." :cool::eek:

Pronzini
May. 17, 2008, 06:45 PM
That's it..That's why I love the sport.

Wow!

Sannois
May. 17, 2008, 06:46 PM
That's it..That's why I love the sport.

Wow!
Thats horse racing! And its why I will always be a fan!!! :yes::winkgrin:

LKF
May. 17, 2008, 06:53 PM
We need a hero (just like Secretariat was in 1973), and I have a gut feeling that Big Brown is going to give the folks just that. He is a true contender - first class all the way.

EventerAJ
May. 17, 2008, 06:53 PM
Wow, what a performance. He really is in a class by himself!

I know it probably won't happen (for $tud reasons) but I would LOVE to see a match up between Brown and Curlin, in the BC maybe??

Nikki^
May. 17, 2008, 06:58 PM
I would love to see him run in the BC. I think it's a shame that they are going to retire him after the Belmont. I would've love to see what he can show us when he is 4 years old. He's such a lovely horse with incredible talent.

Iride
May. 17, 2008, 07:05 PM
I would love to see him run in the BC. I think it's a shame that they are going to retire him after the Belmont. I would've love to see what he can show us when he is 4 years old. He's such a lovely horse with incredible talent.

His syndicate was sold for breeding purposes but I believe he has until the end of the year to keep running. Did they say retirement after the Belmont?

Glimmerglass
May. 17, 2008, 07:25 PM
NYT 5-17-08 "The $50 Million Horse" (http://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/17/the-50-million-horse/)


It’s true Big Brown’s stallion rights were sold to Three Chimneys Farm for $50 million. Michael Iavarone, the president of International Equine Acquisitions Holdings and co-owner of Big Brown, confirmed he signed the deal after a week of negotiations en route to Pimlico today, despite what he said on TV.

Three Chimneys already stands 2004’s almost-Triple-Crown-champion Smarty Jones, who commands $100,000 a mating and sees 110 mares a season. Iavarone says Big Brown will not run as a 4-year-old. If he wins the Belmont and becomes the first Triple Crown champion since Affirmed in 1978, he probably won’t run again.

Iride
May. 17, 2008, 07:27 PM
:mad:

Jane
May. 17, 2008, 09:12 PM
NYT 5-17-08 "The $50 Million Horse" (http://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/17/the-50-million-horse/)

I saw that! But I'm hoping that those were the words of the writer of the article, not Mike Iavarone's; all week I'd read various articles about the ongoing stud deals, and many quoted Iavarone as saying either the colt won't race as a four year old, with one or two quoting that he won't run after the Belmont, all were prior to the thursday deadline they had originally.

That said, I'm thinking (and hoping) that since we haven't seen or heard a direct quote yet since the Three Chimney deal was announced, that they're not going to set any dates on the start of his stud career until they see how happens in the Preakness, then the Belmont. Now that the colt ran a great race in the Preakness, we may hear something "official" in the next few days, we may not. I'm really hoping that he'll at least run in one of the top races this summer, then the BC.

Regardless, Belmont is going to be very exciting; I think we'll see a few horses from the Derby, then there's Casino Drive, which I'm pretty sure is already confirmed to run in it, although they'll have to get a new jockey. ;)

tullio
May. 17, 2008, 09:16 PM
That was such an awesome race to watch..... just seeing Kent holding Big Brown and realizing that he probably has so much more in him! Wow! I hope we get to see what he can really do before he's retired. Can't wait to see his next race (won't say it, don't wanna jinx him!)

Laurierace
May. 17, 2008, 09:53 PM
Not only was the race impressive but so was the horse himself. He was dead sound in the test barn, and quite a gentleman. He took everything in stride and appeared more than ready and willing for more.

miss_critic
May. 18, 2008, 06:04 PM
Not much to add here. But it was cool seeing a Bloodhorse photo of him crossing the wire and seeing myself in the background :) I was right at the white fence turf side. He was crazy smooth. Anybody rewatch the race and single out KB's trip? It was gawd awful. He possibly could have been third-

If it weren't for Macho, I would have gotten the tri. I completely tossed that horse. BUT, I did get the first pick 4 which paid off my bets for the day that I lost, so in the end, what an amazing day.

YankeeLawyer
May. 18, 2008, 06:20 PM
Let the silly talk and insane dollars flow - my word this is nuts. One of the more crazy ones: NBC Mike Brunker 4-1-08 "Brittle feet Big Brown's biggest obstacle" (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/23889481/) .. maybe it was supposed to be his April Fools Day article?



Ah, yes the annual rite of someone in the press saying X horse will be the Triple Crown champion ....



We've seen plenty of horses with talent to pull out wow runs but limited by physical issues - how about Candy Ride? Worth $30M? Yea, sure right.

Change your mind, yet?

Glimmerglass
May. 18, 2008, 07:04 PM
Change your mind, yet?

Nope.

Do I think he towered over the "competition" in the Preakness? Yep. It was a great performance and I enjoyed it just as others did. Will he receive much of a challenge in the Belmont? That remains to be seen. A lot of people are willing to pin hopes on Casino Drive for an upset. CD will be making just his 3rd career start. If that is the best that can be found its a bit sad. Greatness only comes from a worthy challenge.

If any horse is going to be spoken as a super horse it will take more then a couple of solid efforts to be mentioned as such. Walk off into the sunset after the Belmont Stakes and that suggestion of being "oooh, ahhh" great only becomes hollow. I thought then and now that Smarty Jones - who mind you accomplished more then BB has to date - as being a good horse but no where near a super horse and not even on the great rating.

Should BB race and win for the rest of 2008 the Haskell Invitational, Travers Stakes, Jockey Club Gold Cup, the Goodwood Stakes, and the Breeders' Cup (all Grade 1-races) then IMHO he'd be worth $50M.

horselips
May. 18, 2008, 08:31 PM
I'd call him near-great if he ever gets a chance to run against and beat Curlin - As long as both are at the top of their game.

Won't happen though.

KnKShowmom
May. 18, 2008, 09:03 PM
Everytime I watch this horse - cool, calm, good looking, workman like, acting like he owns the place before he has even run - I get an image of another great horse -

Alysheba.

Enough said!

Glimmerglass
May. 18, 2008, 10:37 PM
Like Andy Beyer or not, but the man makes valid observations with the euphoria surrounding Big Brown. It doesn't take anything away from the horse's history-breaking and against all odds types of success for such a lightly raced horse. Rather looking at his success does require some perspective.

Opinion - Andrew Beyer Washington Post 5-17-08 "Big Brown that good, or competition that bad?" (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24686430/)

Excerpt


Big Brown's performance surely gave the impression that his potential is limitless. Indeed, so did his runaway Kentucky Derby victory. But experienced race-watchers and handicappers know that these win-under-a-hammerlock victories are frequently deceptive. In 2006, Bernardini captured the Preakness and a series of major stakes races so easily that it appeared he could sprout wings and fly if his jockey ever turned him loose. But when he finally encountered a formidable opponent, Invasor, in the Breeders' Cup Classic, he didn't show a new dimension to his talent. Invasor beat him decisively. It is an enduring truth of the game: Horses don't prove much by winning easy. They prove themselves by beating good competition.

Big Brown has not yet faced rivals who can challenge him. The supporting cast in the 133rd Preakness was a pitiful group, with only two graded stakes winners among them. The competition was so weak that bettors made Gayego the second choice in the wagering, even though he had lost the Derby by 36 3/4 lengths. The Derby field had been an unusually weak one as well. And in the race that marked Big Brown's emergence as a leading 3-year-old, the Florida Derby, his competition was negligible.

Another who looks at this crop v. last years ... Curlin's jockey, Robby Albarado (http://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/great-horse/)


Albarado laughed when asked if Big Brown was in Curlin’s league.

“It’s the difference between men and boys, and hopefully we’ll get to see that in the fall if they meet in the Gold Cup or Breeders’ Cup,” Albarado said. “Frankly, there were at least four 3-year-olds last year who were as good as Big Brown if not better. Street Sense, Hard Spun, Any Given Saturday and Curlin.”

Glimmerglass
May. 19, 2008, 09:23 AM
equidaily.com pulled out a quote I was thinking of this weekend - from a year and half ago - which pertains to this dialogue of post race retirement.

Why continuing to race can diminish value and winning just one more doesn't add value - from the breeders perspective:

TB Times Dec 5, 2006 (http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2006/December/05/Breeding-industry-affects-top-level-of-racing.aspx)


Do not expect a Triple Crown winner to race past the Belmont Stakes (G1), said Eclipse Award-winning trainer Todd Pletcher and Hollywood Park Racing Secretary Martin Panza said Tuesday during the University of Arizona Race Track Industry Program's Symposium on Racing and Gaming.

"It'd be great to see a Triple Crown winner, but he wouldn't run after unless he were a gelding," Pletcher said Tuesday during the "Conditions and Conditioners" panel. "That's just the way it is."

"If a horse won the Triple Crown, then how could an owner run him again? He'd be offered $150-million the next day," Panza said. "Why would you run? You can't put a salary cap on the Keeneland sale. There's more money there."

Pletcher said that 2005 Travers Stakes (G1) winner and Breeders' Cup

Classic Powered by Dodge (G1) runner-up Flower Alley lost about 50% of his value when he returned at four and only won the Salvatore Mile Stakes (G3) before finishing unplaced in three Grade 1 races.

"[Flower Alley's owner] Eugene Melnyk is a sportsman and wanted to keep his horse in training, but it didn't work out," Pletcher said. "Flower Alley was worth between $12-million and $14-million after the Breeders' Cup last year, and he was only worth between $6-million and $8-million this year."

Flower Alley will enter stud next year at Three Chimneys, which also stands 2000 Breeders' Cup Mile (G1) winner War Chant. Panza said that trainer Neil Drysdale wanted to run War Chant after the Breeders' Cup in the Hollywood Derby (G1).

"The farm told him no because it would not increase [War Chant's] value if he won," Panza said.

Beezer
May. 19, 2008, 04:02 PM
Interestingly, Dutrow is quoted in an L.A. Times article today saying that he plans to aim Brown toward the Travers and the BC, no matter what the Belmont brings.

Three Chimneys says it's bought a "minority" stake in the horse and has no say in his racing career.

So, here's a question for the less mathematically challenged than I: When the figure of $50 mil is used, how is that determined? Is it that since a Three Chimneys syndicate paid X for Y amount of the horse, then anyone else who wants a Y amount also has to pay X and that's how you get to $50 mil? Or did the Three Chimneys syndicate pay the whole $50 million?

Not that I'll ever be able to even spit in that pool, unless, of course, we're talking Monopoly money. :winkgrin:

Glimmerglass
May. 19, 2008, 05:30 PM
So, here's a question for the less mathematically challenged than I: When the figure of $50 mil is used, how is that determined? Is it that since a Three Chimneys syndicate paid X for Y amount of the horse, then anyone else who wants a Y amount also has to pay X and that's how you get to $50 mil? Or did the Three Chimneys syndicate pay the whole $50 million?

None of it has been disclosed so everything is a guess.

Remember IEAH only owns 75% of him. IEAH purchased that majority interest in the colt from Paul Pompa Jr. for $3.5 million in September '07. Pompa kept the balance.

So for the sake of argument one way it could be setup, but many other structured deals could've been cut with ownership and redistribution of proceeds: Lets say 100% of him is redistributed as follows ... Three Chimneys takes a 45% stake, thus reducing IEAH's holding down to 45% and Pompa's down to 10%. If the new-buy in values the whole horse at $50M, then Pompa would've received $7.5M and IEAH $15M for the portion of the shares they gave up.

I cannot see Three Chimney's (and the syndicate behind them, buying into their structured breeding investment) putting $50M in cash up front today. The first money for bookings wouldn't been seen until December and thus the time value of money from May to December on a fully $50M makes no sense.

Hopeful Hunter
May. 19, 2008, 06:11 PM
Whether or not Big Brown is one for the history books I don't know...but I do know that coming home, when he was given his head with just a movement forward of his jockey's hands, we noticed his big ears flopped and he just seemed so HAPPY to be able to kick it up a gear and go...THAT to me is what watching a TB race should be all about. An animal doing what it loves most and having fun.

Glimmerglass
May. 19, 2008, 06:17 PM
Once again another police and UPS mixed escort to the track :D

BloodHorse 5-19 "Big Brown Arrives; Ran Down in Preakness" (http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/article/45314.htm)


Big Brown arrived in style at Belmont Park May 19. With a police escort in front and a UPS truck behind, a Brook Ledge van delivered the winner of the first two legs of the Triple Crown to a loading ramp near Barn 2 at 2:25 p.m.

Big Brown left Maryland at 10 a.m. and encountered some traffic at the George Washington Bridge in New Jersey, where his van was met by the police escort. Outside of that, it was smooth sailing for Big Brown, who was accompanied on the van by his groom, Herasmo Gonzalez.

Trainer Rick Dutrow Jr. and Big Brown’s exercise rider, Michelle Nevin, rode in a car that followed the van throughout the journey.

Waiting for Big Brown was a gaggle of reporters, photographers, and television crews, about 75 people in all. The colt’s rider, Kent Desormeaux, and co-owner Michael Iavarone of IEAH Stables, were the first to greet Big Brown as he looked around with interest at his new surroundings. Iavarone, who was besieged by reporters, said, “He is a rock star, and he knows it.”

Regarding his physical condition post-Preakness, there were some slight burns


Dutrow said that the Boundary colt did run down on the back of both his hind heels in the Preakness. When a horse runs down, his heels make contact with the racing surface, and abrasions and burning of the skin can occur. It can either be mild or very pronounced.

“He burned a little bit (behind),” Dutrow said. “It’s not an issue. He will be fine. He didn’t run down up front; he may have scraped it (behind), but I don’t see no open sores. He just touched it very lightly back there because of the track. It won’t happen next time because I will put patches and bandages on him.”

Dutrow said Big Brown’s heels were treated with a topical ointment.

Glimmerglass
May. 19, 2008, 06:35 PM
Looks like [photo]Kent Desormeaux can always get a job at UPS (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080519/483/8d0bcd6606c84d63816d5139a531cd5c/) if his jockey gig doesn't work out :D

Other images

AP - BB before loading onto the Brooks Ledges van at Pimlico today (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080519/483/ca576d14856a41b782c4d55bfc3a331d/)

AP - being led of the Brooks Ledges van at Belmont (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080519/483/02c9487adfe444b8a731a7b213f1e270/)

BB with his personal groom, Herasmo Gonzalez, at Belmont (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080519/483/6d857ff2dee949af8bf9867874bf97d4/)

Kent D. as a UPS pitchman (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080519/483/d53e287a430e4aa994ccb9f1ad98e8b9/)

An interesting UPS-meets-EPSN hat worn by Dutrow (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080519/483/ca576d14856a41b782c4d55bfc3a331d/#photoViewer=/080519/483/a952f077adb544e8a1f729fb2ea991e3)

Laurierace
May. 19, 2008, 09:12 PM
Once again another police and UPS mixed escort to the track :D

BloodHorse 5-19 "Big Brown Arrives; Ran Down in Preakness" (http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/article/45314.htm)



Regarding his physical condition post-Preakness, there were some slight burns

I added a picture of his rundowns to the album. Its the last picture. As you will see they were very minor.

http://community.webshots.com/album/563468012tuPfoz

Glimmerglass
May. 20, 2008, 12:44 PM
Correction on the still-undisclosed deal with Three Chimney's: it was worth "more" then $60 million (http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/tuesday/news/ny-spowner205694177may20,0,1185243.story) as it surpassed that prior record held in connection to Fusaichi Pegasus ('00).

Also with the question of racing past the Belmont, I suspect the pressure from fans, the industry and pundits alike is comming down on IEAH with their suggestions of quiting after the Belmont.


Win or lose June 7 in the Belmont Stakes, what are the chances that undefeated Triple Crown contender Big Brown will run again?

"Very good," his co-owner, Holbrook resident Michael Iavarone, said yesterday. "As long as he comes out of the race in the right way and shows us that he wants to go on, I think it would make sense for us to go on with him."

Then again the Chapman family said the same thing about Smarty Jones, so it isn't unprecidented.

Glimmerglass
May. 20, 2008, 01:36 PM
A bit odd - and reminicent of the assorted claims with late Lost In The Fog with his unusual white blaze and it having religious connections - but folks are reading into BB's white turft of hair on his otherwise brown right front leg.

Sports Illustrated May 20, 2008 "Mark of a Champ" (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/tim_layden/05/20/preakness0526/)

Excerpt


There was something very different about this colt. He was pulled from his mother's womb in the broodmare barn at Monticule Farm in central Kentucky on the afternoon of April 10, 2005, deep bay in color but with a strange white dot at the top of his left front leg, near his rib cage. It was perhaps the size of a quarter, and none of the three people in the stall at the time of his birth had ever seen such a marking on a horse of his coloring. "What the devil is that?" said Monticule owner Gary Knapp. The horse's handlers, many of whom were Mexican, nicknamed him Punto Blanco, Spanish for "white dot."

He was purchased for $60,000 at a yearling sale in the fall of 2006 by Eddie Woods, then 48, an Irishman with a sprawling Florida farm who had been a jockey in his youth and now operates as a pinhooker, buying yearlings for the purpose of teaching them to run and reselling them for a profit. Woods saw the white dot, grown to the size of a golf ball on his unnamed baby. "Some good horses have something about them that's totally different from other horses," says Woods. "It's their x factor. That's his thing: a brilliant white spot in a very obscure place."

hessy35
May. 20, 2008, 01:57 PM
Like Andy Beyer or not, but the man makes valid observations with the euphoria surrounding Big Brown. It doesn't take anything away from the horse's history-breaking and against all odds types of success for such a lightly raced horse. Rather looking at his success does require some perspective.

Opinion - Andrew Beyer Washington Post 5-17-08 "Big Brown that good, or competition that bad?" (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24686430/)

Excerpt



Another who looks at this crop v. last years ... Curlin's jockey, Robby Albarado (http://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/great-horse/)


I totally agree with this Article.

NMK
May. 20, 2008, 02:02 PM
Laurierace,

Thank you for sharing your wonderful photos. Does anyone know how tall Big Brown is? I have heard from 16.0 to 16.3.

Beezer
May. 20, 2008, 02:31 PM
To quote Bobby Frankel in the Bloodhorse:

"I know this crop of 3-year-olds doesn't look strong, but you can't blame the horse. He's a super horse; maybe one of the greats of all time. I don't go back to the old-time great horses, but I can see him being put in the same class as the Secretariats and the Spectacular Bids. He's unbelievable. If nothing unforeseen happens, I can see him winning the Belmont by 15 lengths."

Iffn I recall correctly, TC winners Sir Barton, Omaha and Assault were considered lucky horses in bad years. Even Whirlaway and Count Fleet weren't exactly lauded as super horses at the time.

So -- and maybe this is a topic of a whole nother thread ;) -- perhaps the key is to be a very good horse in a so-so year. And as Frankel says, is that really the horse's fault? He can't pick his classmates any more than his connections.

Glimmerglass
May. 20, 2008, 03:06 PM
To quote Bobby Frankel in the Bloodhorse:

"I can see him being put in the same class as ... the Spectacular Bids. .."

Thanks for making me throw up in my mouth. Utter Big Brown in the same statement let alone class as The Bid? Can't they take away his training license such blasphemy? And Bobby just to be exceedingly clear there is no "the Spectacular Bids", there was only THE one and only

Has Bobby been sucking down the winstrol that Rick's been giving BB? How does any sane person suggest a horse with 4 victories will be in the league of two of the absolute greatests? Bid and Secretariat set at 3 yrs old stakes and track records that remain today. At just 2-yrs old Bid 's 2nd career start equalled the track record - at Pimlico no less! At 2-yrs old in the Laurel Futurity he set track record of 1:04 1/5; at 3-yrs old he set the track record at the Meadowlands, after the Belmont he set the track record at DelPark in an allowance return. Forget about his America-record on dirt at 4-yr still holding today.

BB can't be faulted for winning, but he hasn't one track record to his name be it time or distance. Bid before the Belmont rattled off 10-straight victories and these were honest races against graded stakes winners. Bid three times before the Belmont defeated General Assembly (http://www.drf.com/row/pps/spectacularbid_pps.pdf) who went on to set and still hold to this day the stakes and track record at 10f (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ok1e0Yez_s) at Saratoga in the 1979 Travers! Flying Paster was crushed in every match up against Bid at 3 and 4, yet Paster was a record setting bullet runner from Santa Anita.

The Preakness this year has just two horses against BB who ever won a single graded race in their careers. If Bud Delp did that that you might have seen the infamous Man O'War 100-length victory matched.

Looking at this nonsense I'll take a modern comparison: Pepper's Pride is a successful New Mexico filly who is a perfect 16-0 but does that mean she is the same as Citation was at 16-0? Maybe to a computer looking a starts and wins but you can fool anyone who has followed this sport.

caffeinated
May. 20, 2008, 03:14 PM
Thank you for sharing your wonderful photos. Does anyone know how tall Big Brown is? I have heard from 16.0 to 16.3.

hmm... I don't know the answer, but am willing to bet that the better he does, the "bigger" he will be. If he wins the Belmont the writers will increase his height to at least 17 hands. If he ever faces Curlin? They'll make it "towering over the competition at a monstrous 17 and a half hands tall..."

(only half kidding. I just remember this happening with Barbaro- in person I'd give him 16.1 or *maybe* 16.2, but by the time his story made Vanity Fair, he was over 17 hands.)

Beezer
May. 20, 2008, 03:15 PM
How did I know that that would make you blow a gasket, Glimmer! :lol: :winkgrin: :lol:

Calico
May. 20, 2008, 04:52 PM
:lol: :lol: Has one horse ever caused so much indignity? Between that and the fact that he inflates his height after every win :lol: I'm beginning to think he's just a manipulative egomaniac.

Jane
May. 20, 2008, 06:03 PM
Also with the question of racing past the Belmont, I suspect the pressure from fans, the industry and pundits alike is comming down on IEAH with their suggestions of quiting after the Belmont.



Then again the Chapman family said the same thing about Smarty Jones, so it isn't unprecidented.

But did the Champans ever say it wasn't about the money? ;) Here's a link to a page where you can find a video of Lavarone answered the questions, after Big Brown's arrival at Belmont. There's also a video of the arrival.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/horseracing/belmont/ny-spowner0520,0,5891744.story

Laurierace
May. 20, 2008, 07:31 PM
My goal in life is to train a horse that everyone thinks is overrated! That's when you know you have made it.

Beezer
May. 20, 2008, 08:18 PM
Here's a link to a page where you can find a video of Lavarone answered the questions, after Big Brown's arrival at Belmont. There's also a video of the arrival.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/horseracing/belmont/ny-spowner0520,0,5891744.story

Good lord! He looks like he's walking down Main Street in the middle of a parade! I love how he's just cruising along past the car with the alarm going off -- "can someone turn off that car??" -- and all the shoutouts to the gazillions of photogs and reporters: "Step back ... get back ... give us some room here ... NO RUNNING!!" :D :D

Larksmom
May. 21, 2008, 11:08 AM
what was the Beyer figure for the KD and the Preakness? I do not see them on TT website, nor the BH website.
Thanks
Janis

Glimmerglass
May. 21, 2008, 11:18 AM
what was the Beyer figure for the KD and the Preakness

Ah, sorry I didn't follow up on that!

Big Brown:

* 100-Beyer Speed Figure for his Preakness
* 109-Beyer Speed Figure for his Kentucky Derby
* 106-Beyer Speed Figure for his Florida Derby

Texarkana
May. 21, 2008, 11:19 AM
what was the Beyer figure for the KD and the Preakness? I do not see them on TT website, nor the BH website.
Thanks
Janis

Big Brown's Beyer was a 109 for the Kentucky Derby. He only received a 100 for his Preakness.

ETA: Oops, was posting at the same time as you Glimmer!

Larksmom
May. 21, 2008, 11:26 AM
I think they were deserving of at least those numbers. As to who he beat, I think he beat good horses in the Derby. In the Preakness, less so. Waiting with baited breath for the Belmont!

Texarkana
May. 21, 2008, 11:47 AM
Well, Dutrow was concerned Big Brown would bounce in the Preakness.

I haven't seen the sheets, but judging by those Beyers, I suspect it is entirely possible Big Brown bounced and still won due to lack of competition.

Madeline
May. 21, 2008, 12:15 PM
I think that being eased the last sixteenth (or more) would tend to take a bite out of your Beyer number...

Larksmom
May. 21, 2008, 02:04 PM
lemme see here, He blew by'em at the top of the stretch, was distancing them WITHOUT even having a whip waved at him. Why in God's name would you keep urging him on? He beat them by DAYLIGHT. I didn't see him being eased.

Glimmerglass
May. 21, 2008, 02:25 PM
Why in God's name would you keep urging him on? He beat them by DAYLIGHT. I didn't see him being eased.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest otherwise. No rather I think the point Madeline cited was that his BSF was lower accordingly. The BSF reflects the distance, fractions, et al so naturally if he's geared down (despite being in full command) the factor # assigned looks "less" impressive.

There were complaints that his BSF for the Kentucky Derby was too low because the formula used doesn't (nor could it really) take into consideration of him starting in the 20-PP and thus starting off X feet away from the rail.

caffeinated
May. 21, 2008, 02:26 PM
I didn't see him being eased.

In one of the postrace interviews, Kent D. said he did ease him up a bit in the stretch, since there was no real competition at that point :)

bobbybobby
May. 21, 2008, 02:54 PM
you can watch the race and see he is trying to slow down the last part.....looked like it took nothing out of him.....

grits
May. 21, 2008, 03:03 PM
Seems as if he might run against Curlin, after all.

http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/article/45334.htm

Glimmerglass
May. 21, 2008, 03:37 PM
Seems as if he might run against Curlin, after all.

I haven't read about the Curlin camp talking about going to the BCC as per say. They've cited the Japan Cup as an alternative race at the end of the year.

The Jockey Club Gold Cup as a match for the two (on dirt) would make more sense but it sounds like that is too soon after the Travers Stakes for BB. That is *if* he is still running ;)

S4zeus
May. 21, 2008, 08:44 PM
How big is Big Brown? Just curious.

Calico
May. 23, 2008, 03:25 PM
Here's an article about how past triple crown winners were perceived. It's very interesting how Big Brown would measure up:

Downey Article (http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/article/45366.htm)

ravenclaw
May. 23, 2008, 06:22 PM
IEAH Stable is going to donate a "substantial portion" of Big Brown's Belmont earnings to help the family of a police officer that was critically injured in the line of duty. Think Big Brown's connections have hired an image consultant? ;)

Here's the whole article:
http://handicapping.bloodhorse.com/index.asp?source=http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/article.cgi%3Fid=11639%26print=true%26header=bh

miss_critic
May. 24, 2008, 10:45 AM
You know, Jess Jackson seems like the type to not back down to a challange. That article yesterday cited Assm. talking about Dutrows comments and it seemed like he was saying "bring it on", at least that is teh perception I got. I am not going to give up hope!!

Jane
May. 24, 2008, 07:10 PM
IEAH Stable is going to donate a "substantial portion" of Big Brown's Belmont earnings to help the family of a police officer that was critically injured in the line of duty. Think Big Brown's connections have hired an image consultant? ;)

Here's the whole article:
http://handicapping.bloodhorse.com/index.asp?source=http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/article.cgi%3Fid=11639%26print=true%26header=bh

Is there an image issue with the connections? I mean, sure, Dutrow shoots from the hips, and Michael Iavarone isn't your "traditional" soft-spoken horsey type, but it isn't like they've done anything (that I'm aware of anyway) that hurt the sport or its image. They are all residents of Long Island, specifically the county of Nassu, where the accident occurred, maybe they just want to do something nice and share some of the winnings. ;)

FWIW, I think that if IEAH wants to drum up more publicity for themselves, they would have at least mention the much needed (for the area), state-of-the-art Ruffian Medical Center they've been planning since early 2006, which broken ground last September and is expected to open this summer.

Glimmerglass
May. 29, 2008, 12:40 AM
Regarding his insurance policy:

Wall Street Journal May 27, 2008 "Horse Insurance Is Scrutinized" (http://s.wsj.net/article/SB121184710798121373.html?mod=fpa_editors_picks)

Mr. Kirk said Big Brown's ownership group has insured the animal for nearly $50 million, one of the largest policies ever for an active racehorse. Representatives of the ownership group couldn't be reached to comment.

The horse's coverage, which is still being negotiated, is being underwritten by nearly a dozen different carriers, including several affiliates of Lloyds of London and two U.S. insurers, including North American Specialty. Mr. Kirk said his company doesn't hold the largest slice of Big Brown's insurance. Chris Williamson, the managing director of the bloodstock division at Willis Group Holding Ltd., the London-based insurance broker that also arranged Big Brown's coverage, couldn't be reached for comment.

The article is vastly more fascinating from the perspective that the owners of horse (A) out of a injury prone family, for example, won't pay any more then horse (B) out of one know to be solid as an oak tree.


Ron Kirk, a horse-insurance agent and underwriter in Lexington, Ky., whose company manages the horse program for North American Specialty Insurance Co., a wholly owned subsidiary of Swiss Re Insurance Corp., said Monday that horse life-insurance policies don't take into account the injury history of a horse's family, and owners don't pay more to insure horses whose ancestors have produced injury-prone offspring.

Mr. Kirk said his firm will, on occasion, charge owners an additional premium -- roughly about half a percentage point of the horse's value -- to guarantee a certain fertility rate for horses whose parents and grandparents have experienced breeding problems. But he said the industry hasn't reached any consensus on how coverage rates for active racehorses should be affected by injury problems in a particular equine family. Any policy written without considering a horse's pedigree is incomplete, he argued.

Glimmerglass
Jun. 10, 2008, 03:55 PM
As posted on May 19th ....


None of it has been disclosed so everything is a guess.

Remember IEAH only owns 75% of him. IEAH purchased that majority interest in the colt from Paul Pompa Jr. for $3.5 million in September '07. Pompa kept the balance.

So for the sake of argument one way it could be setup, but many other structured deals could've been cut with ownership and redistribution of proceeds: Lets say 100% of him is redistributed as follows ... Three Chimneys takes a 45% stake, thus reducing IEAH's holding down to 45% and Pompa's down to 10%. If the new-buy in values the whole horse at $50M, then Pompa would've received $7.5M and IEAH $15M for the portion of the shares they gave up.

I cannot see Three Chimney's (and the syndicate behind them, buying into their structured breeding investment) putting $50M in cash up front today. The first money for bookings wouldn't been seen until December and thus the time value of money from May to December on a fully $50M makes no sense.

And it looks like the rumor is that Three Chimneys Farm bought a lot less into Big Brown then everyone though. IEAH, if this is correct, only were able to peddle a small stake in him to TCF at an inflated price ....

As unearthed by equidaily.com and buried within the blog of horse racing writer (ex Newsday for 22-yrs) Paul Moran (http://paulmoranattheraces.blogspot.com/2008/06/belmont-denial-of-slicksters.html) you have this tid bit from June 8, 2008:


The enrichment will continue, though a knowledgeable source in Lexington claims that Three Chimneys Farm, where Big Brown will stand at stud, purchased a 10 percent interest for $5 million, which may have technically established his total worth at $50 million but like all things IEAH, is not what it seems.

So to correct this notion that the IEAH folks cashed out prior to the Belmont Bomb in a big way is far from the truth. ;)

Clearly TCF won't buy additional stakes - nor anyone sane - at a clip of $5M per 10% portion.

Futher look at this based upon the little news thats leaked out:

-IEAH bought 75% for ($3.5M)
-They syndicated a 10% stake (assuming it was pro-rated between them an Pompa) for $5M in cash; so IEAH owning 75% received $3,750,000

.. so they are up $250k in cash from the ownership perspective and still hold 67.5% in him

With the purse money he's made $2,676,700 since IEHA has owned him (following the maiden start and win at Saratoga); lets assume after paying the trainer and jockey they have taken in 60% of that money .. so they add another $1,606,020

Some money has been made via the UPS deal but likely only mid-five figures.

My best guess (for what it is worth) puts their return to date at $1,856,020 + 67.5% of the value of the horse at stud is. Hence don't let anyone try to kid you these guys have waltzed in, pumped up the value of a horse, then cashed in their chips before the jig was up. They came rather close but no Cigar :)

miss_critic
Jun. 10, 2008, 10:15 PM
That's kind of funny. What are they going to do with the rest of him? And how can they say he won't race at 4 if they only bought 10%??

Glimmerglass
Jun. 12, 2008, 08:24 AM
I'm not sure if all of his connections are on the same sheet of music ;)

USA Today June 10 - 2008 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horses/2008-06-10-dutrow-desormeaux_N.htm)


Iavarone said Big Brown will probably be pointed toward the Aug. 3 Haskell Invitational at New Jersey's Monmouth Park as a prep race for the Aug. 23 Travers Stakes. He is not contemplating a jockey change.

"I don't like that move," Dutrow said of the Haskell. He said he'd prefer to train up to the Travers.

If indeed they're going to do the Haskell-Travers combo I will give them props as that is what a top flight 3-yr old dirt-track runner should be doing. Then the JCGP and BCC ...

(For example, Hard Spun took 2nd in the Haskell then skipped the Travers itself and instead raced on the undercard race that day of the Kings Bishop)

Glimmerglass
Jun. 12, 2008, 09:11 AM
Clearly TCF won't buy additional stakes - nor anyone sane - at a clip of $5M per 10% portion.

There is always a counterpoint to this and I think Three Chimneys is circling the wagons to protect the $5M stake they put into him ;)

Lexington Herald-Leader June 12, 2008 "Big Brown's stud value not likely to plummet; Loss not necessarily a downer (http://www.kentucky.com/101/story/430050.html)

excerpt


Thoroughbred consultant Lincoln Collins said he doesn't think Big Brown is worth any less now than he was before the Preakness, when Three Chimneys Farm bought a minority share of the then-undefeated colt. The total value of the son of Boundary has been rumored to be around $50 million.

Three Chimneys and Collins, a director of the farm, won't comment on the purchase price.

“There's obviously a short-term psychic price to pay,” Collins said Tuesday.

Case Clay, president of Three Chimneys, said it is premature to speculate about Big Brown's stud fee because so much is riding on whether he races and wins again.

“We're happy with the deal we made,” Clay said.

A win in the Travers Stakes at Saratoga in August would erase the question mark from a lot of breeders' minds.

Doug Cauthen, president of WinStar Farm in Versailles, said Big Brown's next race is likely to determine his fee as well as the quality of mares that are sent to him next year when he retires to stud.

Catsdorule-sigh
Jun. 12, 2008, 11:31 AM
BB may redeem himself in the races mentioned, but won't answer the question of if he could get 1-1/2 miles. I would like to see that happen. I think he's got enough in his pedigree to get the job done.

I did what homework I could for races at least 11 furlongs long. Most of them are on turf. I am aware that some are now past, the site did not give any dates. (First numeral is grade)

Is there anything out there left, even turf, where BB would face 11 furlongs and up? Would turf help prove he could get the 1-1/2 or is that apples and oranges? Are his connections ever going to try that again? If he ran that distance, do you think they'd change jockey's?

I BELMONT S. BEL 3 12.0
I GULFSTREAM PARK BREEDERS' CUP S. GP 3/up 11.5 T
I HOLLYWOOD TURF CUP S. HOL 3/up 12.0 T
I JOE HIRSCH TURF CLASSIC INVITATIONAL S. BEL 3/up 12.0 T
I JOHN DEERE BREEDERS' CUP TURF OSA 3/up 12.0 T
I MAN O' WAR S. BEL 3/up 11.0 T
I SWORD DANCER INVITATIONAL S. SAR 3/up 12.0 T
I UNITED NATIONS S. MTH 3/up 11.0

II FIFTH THIRD ELKHORN S. KEE 3/up 12.0 T
II JIM MURRAY MEMORIAL H. HOL 3/up 12.0 T
II MAC DIARMIDA H. GP 3/up 11.0 T
II RED SMITH H. AQU 3/up 11.0 T
II SAN JUAN CAPISTRANO INVITATIONAL H. SA 3/up 14.0 T
II SAN LUIS OBISPO H. SA 3/up 12.0 T
II SAN LUIS REY H. SA 3/up 12.0 T
II SUNSET H. HOL 3/up 12.0 T
II W. L. MCKNIGHT H. CRC 3/up 12.0 T

ArtilleryHill
Jun. 12, 2008, 05:02 PM
I'd be amazed if they tried that distance again with him. Few American horses truly are bred to go that far anymore, and his pedigree is far more oriented to sprinting. I think they'll stick to the more obvious plan of Travers, maybe the JC Gold Cup, and Breeders' Cup Classic. Most commercial breeders will want the horse to redeem himself at 1 1/4 miles; whether he's capable of getting 1 1/2 miles isn't as important an issue to them, and, let's face it, the commercial breeders, potential stallion shareholders, and Eclipse Award voters are IEAH's main audience now.

harvestmoon
Jun. 12, 2008, 05:37 PM
Didn't Big Brown crap out *before* the distance could have even been a problem?

cloudyandcallie
Jun. 12, 2008, 05:45 PM
has BB been checked for fertility? in light of the anabolic steroids?
and did Cigar get steroids?

ArtilleryHill
Jun. 12, 2008, 06:21 PM
They likely will not check fertility of a horse in training; they'd wait to do that when he leaves the track.

As for the "won't race at four" decision, that almost certainly was always mainly in the hands of the majority owners (IEAH). That's less a question of Three Chimneys having a huge say and exercising it to protecting their investment, though clearly they would like to stand the horse ASAP, than it is a question of the owners wanting to start capitalizing as fast as possible on what they see as the potentially really big money: stud fees. the contract might well have had some element in which the parties agreed it was in their mutual best interest for the horse to end his career at three.

I'm interested to see if the horse shuttles. TCF has been reluctant to shuttle horses in the past, but I don't see how the numbers work for IEAH (or anyone) unless they do shuttle this one. IEAH, being mainly investment-minded, will almost certainly want to get as many mares to this horse as fast as they can.

Calico
Jun. 13, 2008, 03:45 PM
He's apparently headed to Monmouth for The Haskell.

hmmmm

Evalee Hunter
Jun. 13, 2008, 06:21 PM
has BB been checked for fertility? in light of the anabolic steroids?
and did Cigar get steroids?


They likely will not check fertility of a horse in training; they'd wait to do that when he leaves the track. . . .

THOUSANDS of TB colts/stallions have gotten steroids without it affecting their fertility. His fertility will not be checked until after an insurance policy has been obtained covering his fertility/ability to breed. Once the insurance is in place, they will find out whether he is fertile & interested. The insurance always comes first before the breeding soundness exam.

If you'd like to take a close look at some colts/stallions that have raced on steroids (check out their equipment), I previously suggested I would give a farm tour to whoever wanted it. We don't race but we do have several TBs here on layup & I promise you as close a view as you like. You won't see any atrophied testes among them, nor any lack of interest in the ladies here on the farm.

ArtilleryHill
Jun. 13, 2008, 06:33 PM
Following up on the fertility issue ... Danzig-line stallions have a history of some fertility issues, and so if Big Brown proves sub-fertile at stud, that could also be a possible cause.

Glimmerglass
Jun. 19, 2008, 01:49 PM
He's apparently headed to Monmouth for The Haskell.

Yep - confirmed today. Skipping the Travers Stakes and going for the $1M G1 Haskell Invitational Aug 3rd

DRF 6-19-08 "Big Brown to return in Haskell" (http://drf.com/news/article/95610.html)


"The Haskell's clearly a first target right now," said Iavarone, who heads the International Equine Acquisitions Holdings Inc. stable that owns 75 percent of Big Brown.

The Haskell, run at 1 1/8 miles, would be Big Brown's first start since he finished last in the Belmont Stakes here June 7. The poor performance - Big Brown's first loss in six career starts - is still a mystery to Iavarone and his connections. According to Iavarone, Big Brown has come out of the race in good order and is training daily at Aqueduct.

By choosing the Haskell over the Jim Dandy and Travers, Iavarone said he and trainer Richard Dutrow Jr. are hoping to remove some of the variables that Iavarone said may have contributed to Big Brown's Belmont loss.


By virtue of the conditions of a bonus announced last month, Monmouth Park officials will pay IEAH/Paul Pompa Jr. $50,000 and Dutrow $50,000 to run Big Brown in the Haskell since Big Brown won two Triple Crown races. Should Belmont winner Da' Tara run in the Haskell, owner Robert LaPenta and trainer Nick Zito would each receive $25,000.

The bonus is still peanuts next to the incentive money for the MassCap :)