Why do I keep hearing Wintec from saddle fitters??

[thumbsontop]

We've had two saddle-fitters out. One was Ann-Mary Bettenson (County rep) and the latest was Dr. Joyce Harman (very well-respected chiro/saddle fitting vet). Both of them said "try a Wintec, they are great saddles". What the heck? She did say to stay away from the air panels because they don't work that well. (Of course, I have an adjustable Bates with an air panel).

I'm obviously missing something. Here I am looking at used Antares and both say Wintec is built very well for the horse? Please chime in with your experiences. After being told twice I feel like I should at least give it a look. I definitely prefer soft leather though... I think I did hear that Bates is built on the same tree. Perhaps I'll look for one without the air panels. Do they even make those??

[jn4jenny]

Bates and Wintec are owned by the same distributor, and it's true that some of the Wintec saddles are built on the same tree design as the Bates saddles. For example, the Wintec Close Contact is a virtual carbon copy of the Bates Caprilli Close Contact, just with synthetic equileather and a synthetic tree. Not that those aren't substantial differences--the equileather can be slick, for example--but still, it's a great budget option and better balanced than a lot of tack in that price range.

You can definitely get Wintecs without air panels, but you usually have to special order them from overseas. I would talk to Jennifer at Equus Now--she used to work for Weatherbeeta, who distributes Bates and Wintec, and she knows a LOT about that tack. And she's very nice! www.equusnow.com.

As for whether they ride as well as Antares, they certainly can--they won't ride the SAME, but of course if it fits your leg and fits the horse, it's going to ride great whether it's worth $400 or $4000. I rather liked the Wintec Pro Jump and the Wintec Close Contact when I owned them, but have now moved on to a Black Country wool-flocked saddle. And none of those three saddles feels a darn thing like an Antares, FWIW.

[Fiat Lux]

I was having a very tough time finding a saddle to fit my older TB mare. The Wintec endurance fits her better than anything else. I don't think I would ever go back to a leather saddle. I love the light weight, easy care, and good fit.

[J Swan]

Whatever happened to Sandy Panek? She's not a County rep anymore?

I used to have a Wintec dressage saddle that was fabulous. I have a County WB now; and it too is a fabulous saddle. But that Wintec I had - was really something. (didn't have air panels)

[sublimequine]

I have an older Wintec Pro Dressage, that came out before they introduced the CAIR, but has the gullet system.

It's one of the coolest saddles I've ever had. It fits just about anything (EXCEPT my horse, of course! :lol: ), and is awesome to sit in because it's entirely covered in synthetic suede. It's like riding in full-seat breeches no matter what pants you have on.

I highly recommend Wintec. One of the nicest line of synthetic saddles in the world, IMO.

[Bayou Roux]

It's like riding in full-seat breeches no matter what pants you have on.

I highly recommend Wintec. One of the nicest line of synthetic saddles in the world, IMO.

Absatively! I've got an Isabel, and I'm really, really happy with it!

[philosoraptor]

After looking at a bazillion saddles including taking some used-but-pricey ones on trial, it turned out the Wintec AP fit my horse best.

One thing going for it is that it's got good spine clearance. It also helps that the wintecs are somewhat adjustable.

Wintecs are also nice & wide. Why do they still make these super narrow saddles? Do they think our horses are as narrow as greyhounds? :confused: Wintec also makes one model in x-wide tree version to fit even the flat-n-wide backed horses. I just don't see too many other brands/models being made that wide.

I attended a Carol Brett biomechanics/saddlefit clinic last year. She suggests that if you can't afford a Balance saddle, an affordable option for many people are the Wintec: good spine clearance, wider sizes, good shape/padding of panels, no pointy tree tips to jab into horse, etc

[Wigwag]

The wintec AP fits my horse better than any saddle that's ever sat on his back. He LOVES it.

[Rhyadawn]

They are a great saddle for the rider on a budget. Wintec, Collegiate, and Bates now all have the same gullet system, and I believe you can get the wintec without cair. Girls at the barn have wintec and love them, I wish I would have bought that as a first saddle instead of a thorowgood. I wouldn't be saddle shopping again a year later.

[SEPowell]

I wanted to buy a wintec for hunting for ease of cleaning. I tried two styles and simply could not fit my tbs (high long withers). I know a few tbs that use them successfully but they tend to be of the lower withered shorter coupled variety. I ended up getting Jeffries Flyovers which fit all of us well. I did have to get two though. Ouch.

[Petstorejunkie]

I personally hate the dang things, in fact even if the fit was good for the horse I would be hard headed and keep searching, or blow the extra bucks for fully custom. If you aren't embarassed to ride in one, test riding it can't hurt.

[sublimequine]

I personally hate the dang things, in fact even if the fit was good for the horse I would be hard headed and keep searching, or blow the extra bucks for fully custom. If you aren't embarassed to ride in one, test riding it can't hurt.

Some of us can see past the brand name and tag price, and appreciate a well-made saddle that FITS. I'd be embarassed to NOT have that ability. :)

[potteryshop]

I've got an ProAP over 15 years old. The fabric is like velcro - which is why I like to use it to trail ride a horse I'm not sure about. Or those windy fall days!

[Wigwag]

If you aren't embarassed to ride in one, test riding it can't hurt.

wow, talk about rude! Just because you look down on them doesn't mean others only get them because they're "cheap" to buy.

They are easy to clean.
They fit my horse and myself fantastically.
They look nice (in my opinion).
They are super comfortable.
I don't have to clean, condition, oil, etc..all the time.
Last quite some time.
I know a lot of people who have them and not a one is unhappy with it.
Easy gullet system changing.
Reputable company.

[sublimequine]

wow, talk about rude! Just because you look down on them doesn't mean others only get them because they're "cheap" to buy.

They are easy to clean.
They fit my horse and myself fantastically.
They look nice (in my opinion).
They are super comfortable.
I don't have to clean, condition, oil, etc..all the time.
Last quite some time.
I know a lot of people who have them and not a one is unhappy with it.
Easy gullet system changing.
Reputable company.

Well said, I agree 100%.

[kcmel]

I personally hate the dang things, in fact even if the fit was good for the horse I would be hard headed and keep searching, or blow the extra bucks for fully custom. If you aren't embarassed to ride in one, test riding it can't hurt.

Well....OK. I guess some of us just don't have your exquisite taste :lol::lol:

[sublimequine]

Well....OK. I guess some of us just don't have your exquisite taste :lol::lol:

And Isabell Werth is a no-class backyard rider, right? :lol:

[Kementari]

Why do they still make these super narrow saddles? Do they think our horses are as narrow as greyhounds? :confused:

Well, not all of us ride those wide-backed behemoths... ;) I like Wintec because with the narrowest gullet it's actually NARROW enough for my TB, without bridging the way most narrower saddles do! :lol:

[Fiat Lux]

I wanted to buy a wintec for hunting for ease of cleaning. I tried two styles and simply could not fit my tbs (high long withers). I know a few tbs that use them successfully but they tend to be of the lower withered shorter coupled variety. I ended up getting Jeffries Flyovers which fit all of us well. I did have to get two though. Ouch.

I'm amazed you say that because my wintec endurance fits my high-withered TB mare to a tee... she has just about the highest, sharpest withers I've ever seen.

[Nick-]

I have always been a saddle snob and I must admit, wintec was never on my agenda. That it until I leased a upper level dressage horse. The owner told me that the only saddle the horse liked was a wintec but I refused to ride in a synthetic saddle. I had 2 very nice expensive saddles and I was sure one of them would work.

For the first month I could not get the damn horse to even pick up the canter. Finally, I asked a saddle fitter to help fit one of my saddles. She told me to get a wintec (what is this some sort of conspiracy). I ignored her advice for another month. Finally, even my trainer had trouble getting canter departs and changes. I broke down and got a wintec isabell.

It is amazing how much you like a saddle when your horse likes a saddle. I don't know why but there are some horses that just like the fit of a wintec. It has nothing to do with synthetic, everything to do with fit. The difference in the way this horse went was like night and day.

I still have my very expensive saddles, I also have 2 wintec saddles and would not hesitate to show at any rated show with them.

Again, it is amazing how much you will love your saddle (even a wintec) when your horse loves the saddle.

[Petstorejunkie]

I wasnt trying to be a snark, but apparently I came across as one, my appologies. To me I took the OP's post as that they were confused as to why a reputable saddle fitter would suggest one, and to answer that, i have no clue. I would much rather have a leather saddle that was perfect for both me and my horse.
In my experiences with Wintec the fabric is restrictive, looks dirty 95% of the time, and the twist insanely wide. Also regardless of the gullet system I have yet to see one sit on a horse where it wasn't too low on the withers. If *you* like them, fantastic, more power to you.

[Luckydonkey]

WOW- Still coming across a bit snarky, lol....anyways- LOVE my wintecs!:D

[Appypatches]

When I purchased my Wintec a/p 500 it fit my mare! I was so Happy and SHE was so happy! As she got older, her back started to sway and my Crosby just would not stay in place but with this saddle, we had no more sliding back and I got rid of the the breast collar! Used it for about 4 years, lost my mare at 27, was thinking about selling it but why?? I have another horse it will fit right now when I get time to ride him ( friends horse) and when I finally take the plunge and go horse shopping again, I love the option of owning this (with changable gullets, which I have) and my older crosby to try! Oh, I also have the Wintec Western Saddle, it fit her too once she aged and swayed! Too afforable when I purchased them just to let them go and ohh, so easy to store! P.S. loved that I could ride in my Western one in shorts with out ever getting rubbed and they both still look NEW!

[Hampton Bay]

I personally prefer a leather saddle, so I bought a Bates Event to jump in. It has the CAIR and the gullet system, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE it, as does my mare.

On the other hand, I have had several nice, expensive, wool-flocked saddles that the mareness hated.

Unfortunately, the Bates Caprilli (and Isabell) did not fit me. If I could have had the CAIR panels added to my foam-panel dressage saddle without ruining its value, I would. Instead I use a ThinLine pad.

Before you order a Wintec without CAIR, try a Wintec or Bates with the CAIR. Your horse may love it. Mine certainly does.

[FullSail]

I got my first Wintec, an AP, when they came out. This saddle is at least 17 years old and it fits nealry everything! There's not much to it, one flap, long billets. It's fit all my horses. I use it on all the babies and greenies, from the impossible to fit National Show Horse to the Lazy-Boy Shire/Paint. I also have an Isabelle, which fits most horses, is incredibly comfortable, and my sensitive TB has no complaints with it. I have a friend who spent $4000 on a custom County, only to have her trainer tell her the saddle still isn't right and she should borrow the Isabelle. For fit, comfort, longevity and price, they're tough to beat.

[sublimequine]

I wasnt trying to be a snark, but apparently I came across as one, my appologies. To me I took the OP's post as that they were confused as to why a reputable saddle fitter would suggest one, and to answer that, i have no clue. I would much rather have a leather saddle that was perfect for both me and my horse.
In my experiences with Wintec the fabric is restrictive, looks dirty 95% of the time, and the twist insanely wide. Also regardless of the gullet system I have yet to see one sit on a horse where it wasn't too low on the withers. If *you* like them, fantastic, more power to you.

Read the multitude of posts right here in this thread telling all about the benefits of Wintec saddles.

As for the equisuede of Wintec, not all models come with it, you can opt for equileather as well. Some also come with a combination of both.

As for 'dirty'.. a dirty saddle will look dirty. That goes for leather saddles too. Wintecs are easy to clean, not dirt-proof. :lol:

I know you said you're not trying to come off as snarky, but holy cow I sure can see you turning up your nose at though.. ugh, NON-LEATHER :dramatic shudder: saddles. :lol:

[Chief2]

Can't speak for Wintec English saddles, but I have a western trail model that is easy to ride in. The converse is true in the fit department, though. They only made that model in semi-quarter horse bars, so it does not fit a lot of the wider stock horses very well. I think they have expanded the selection to include a model with full quarter horse bars now.

The other problem you get is the total cr*p you get from the die-hard western riders who think you should only be riding in a leather saddle, or not at all. I've heard everything from it being too light so you flip out of the saddle faster if there's an accident (you don't), to that it was too light in the stirrups to keep your feet properly positioned (didn't have that problem, either). Most of them have never ridden in one because they refuse to. I was so happy to get rid of my lousy 40 pound leather saddle, and I really don't want another one. A 21 pounder is so much easier to lift on and off the horse.

[murphyluv]

Ok, I felt like I had to chime in as I've ridden in a LOT of wintecs, and I owned a Bates Carprilli for a while.
The older wintecs I feel like the material is not as nice as the new ones. I like the suede seats, those are awesome. I do have to agree about a bit of a wide twist, from what I remember. I think they're great, they hold up. Except I feel like the older ones, If they get tons and tons of wear, the billet straps do seem to crack a little, though. I find nothing wrong with riding a sinthetic saddle, though. I will probably end up buying a Wintec Western for trail riding, if it fits my horse and I can scrape the money together.
Although, I mostly have to say my .02 about the caire panels and the adjustable gullet system. I HATED the caire panels, and so did my horse. I had mine pulled out and reflocked with wool. SOOO much better. It cost me about $300 to do. Some horses love the aire, some don't. It just depends. Nothing works for every single horse. Same thing with the gullet system. Great if you have a young horse who is filling out, or you are riding multiple horses and can't afford the multiple saddles to go with them. HOWEVER, it is not a cure-all. It's the SHAPE of the panels that are important as well. It did not matter what size gullet I used, where I put the saddle, my Bates bridged. And the only way I could tell was from the sweat marks on my saddle pad and from my horse's behavior. As soon as I went to a saddle fitter and had one fitted, he sighed with relief, went round, and both of us were smiling.

So, it may be that the wintec panels' shape fits a certain type of horse's back-nevermind the tree width. Some are more straight or curved than others- from what I gather, not that I'm an expert. (I did however, hunt for about 8 months for a new saddle).

Oh, and BTW, I believe Sandy Panek does not do County anymore.

[J Swan]

I personally hate the dang things, in fact even if the fit was good for the horse I would be hard headed and keep searching, or blow the extra bucks for fully custom. If you aren't embarassed to ride in one, test riding it can't hurt.

Hmmm.

And here I thought tack was supposed to fit the horse, not the ego.




Everyone has their preferences, and it's true some designs just don't work well for certain people or horses. I don't think anyone should be embarrassed to ride in a Wintec, or a Tad Coffin, or a Stubben. And though I've owned a Wintec, my current saddles are custom leather County's.

They're just saddles.


murphyluv - thanks for the info about Sandy. I bought two saddles from her years ago, and used to get Christmas cards from her. I hope she is well - if you know her - please give her my regards.

[NCSue]

Keep in mind that each style of Wintec has a slightly different tree and shape. My saddle fitter, Dennis Brooks, does not care for the close contact since it's more banana shaped. He feels the all purpose and dressage are a better shaped saddle with more weight bearing surface. I've also found, especially with the close contact, that the saddle shape has changed over the years so if buying used make sure there is a return policy. Many companies are still stocking at least a few styles in the wool flocking, but you'll still want your saddler to do fine tuning. The wintec flocking can be very hard so many restuff with their own flocking. Wintec has a great warranty on the tree but you must have your receipt.

[kdail]

To the OP: Good for you for keeping an open mind about saddle alternatives. There is a reason that reputable saddlers are recommending Wintecs: they are good saddles!

I have the Wintec Pro dressage and the 2000 All Purpose, with flocked panels, and love them both. Bought them both used over 7 years ago, and I can't tell that either one has worn much at all, and I ride about 4x per week year round. Great quality construction. They have been wonderful saddles, and they have fit my 3 very differently-shaped horses (App, TB/Trakehner, and TB). I had both saddles reflocked with Stubben wool, and I get the fit checked every 12-18 months, just like I would with a leather saddle. My saddler is the one who recommended the Wintecs when my Stubben Siegfried would not fit my horse. I just had my saddles worked on this past Saturday, and my saddlers cautioned me that the Wintecs they've seen that were made in the past 6 months are of poorer quality than the older ones. They do NOT recommend the CAIR panels, b/c there is so little that can be done to adjust them if they do not fit your horse well. If you can find a used one without CAIR, I suggest you try it out. I'm keeping my eye out for a replacement for each of mine to put away for one day when/if I finally wear out the ones I've got. Ebay, Rick's Heritage, and Pelham all have used Wintecs listed. Ride in several to see what fits you best. Your saddler can help you determine which one will fit your horse the best.

Many other posters have given the pros of the Wintecs, and I agree wholeheartedly. Fits my horses, easy care, lightweight, and affordable! The night before a show, I just give my saddle a good brushing with a clean brush and wipe down any of the smooth parts with a damp rag. For me it wasn't a matter of budget alone, but rather what MADE THE MOST SENSE.

Your horse doesn't care what type of saddle you use, as long as its COMFY for him/her.

To all the leather snobs out there: pppfffffftttttttt!

[kdail]

To the OP: Good for you for keeping an open mind about saddle alternatives. There is a reason that reputable saddlers are recommending Wintecs: they are good saddles!

I have the Wintec Pro dressage and the 2000 All Purpose, with flocked panels, and love them both. Bought them both used over 7 years ago, and I can't tell that either one has worn much at all, and I ride about 4x per week year round. Great quality construction. They have been wonderful saddles, and they have fit my 3 very differently-shaped horses (App, TB/Trakehner, and TB). I had both saddles reflocked with Stubben wool, and I get the fit checked every 12-18 months, just like I would with a leather saddle. My saddler is the one who recommended the Wintecs when my Stubben Siegfried would not fit my horse. I just had my saddles worked on this past Saturday, and my saddlers cautioned me that the Wintecs they've seen that were made in the past 6 months are of poorer quality than the older ones. They do NOT recommend the CAIR panels, b/c there is so little that can be done to adjust them if they do not fit your horse well. If you can find a used one without CAIR, I suggest you try it out. I'm keeping my eye out for a replacement for each of mine to put away for one day when/if I finally wear out the ones I've got. Ebay, Rick's Heritage, and Pelham all have used Wintecs listed. Ride in several to see what fits you best. Your saddler can help you determine which one will fit your horse the best.

Many other posters have given the pros of the Wintecs, and I agree wholeheartedly. Fits my horses, easy care, lightweight, and affordable! The night before a show, I just give my saddle a good brushing with a clean brush and wipe down any of the smooth parts with a damp rag. For me it wasn't a matter of budget alone, but rather what MADE THE MOST SENSE.

Your horse doesn't care what type of saddle you use, as long as its COMFY for him/her.

To all the leather snobs out there: pppfffffftttttttt!

[SEPowell]

I'm amazed you say that because my wintec endurance fits my high-withered TB mare to a tee... she has just about the highest, sharpest withers I've ever seen.

I was surprized too, but all the models I tried hit their withers about 2" back from the front of the pommel and also bridged on one mare. Narrows sat above the spine but were too tight. I really wanted to switch to Wintec because their cost meant I could buy one to fit each horse (and bc they're easy to clean). Wintecs weren't the only saddles to do that, I ended up asking different people if I could try their saddles on my horses and Steubbens and Pesseos did it too. (One mare in particular is hard to fit because of extremely high, long withers and a flattish back.) Since then I've met others who have trouble getting good fits on their TBs, and even one WB I know who has long high withers and deep shoulders. :confused: But I know many people use them successfully, wish I could... although now I'd really have trouble giving up the great fit Flyovers are for me.

[monstrpony]

I have two very different horses, one a fat QH propane tank, the other much more TB type. I have my Bates CC on a medium-wide gullet plate, and it works on both. The QH has a bit of dip in his back, so the banana shape actually works well for him, and he really likes this saddle. With a sheepskin half-pad, the saddle also works on the TB-type gelding, as well.

I don't ride either of them hard or long, so precise fit isn't mandatory, but both go very well in this saddle.

When I was doing a lot of dressage, I rode in a Wintec Pro, and was completely satisfied with it. I've never had a high-end custom type saddle, so maybe I just don't know what I'm missing, but the Pro worked pretty darned well for me. Alas, I sold it to a needy student when I started riding primarily western.

Has anyone had experience with the new-ish "VSD" Wintec saddle? I do have trouble straightening my stiff hips enough to ride in a dressage saddle, but would like to be able to ride with a longer leg than is best in the CC. So, this little gem looks interesting to me ...

[Rhyadawn]

Can someone explain the vsd??

[arabhorse2]

I've been riding in Wintecs for years, and absolutely adore my 2000 AP with the Equisuede. It fits my horse extremely well, too.

As for looking dirty, um, I clean it after every ride, so it always looks great. Don't know what Petstore was talking about there. :confused:

I have it in black, but I had a previous Wintec that was in brown. They both cleaned up super easy and always looked good.

I considered the Isabell, but didn't like how it made me feel "stuck" in the saddle, so I opted for the more open feel of the AP. :yes:

[monstrpony]

"VSD" is a term that refers to a saddle that is basically an AP, but has more of a "tendency" toward dressage--a slightly straighter flap, but not totally straight. You can still shorten enough to be able to hop over cavaletti or small obstacles on the trail, but not short enough to jump seriously unless you have a really short thigh. Useful for people who like to trail ride with a longer leg. Or people like me, with tight hip flexors and/or arthritic hips, and long thighs, who can't straighten enough to ride in a real dressage saddle, but still like to ride with a longer leg. I'd like it so I can trail ride in something lighter than my western saddle.

Stubben has a VSD version of the Seigfreid saddle, and there are others but I can't think of them. The Wintec one has appeared fairly recently, looks like a regular AP, but straighter flap. Too bad they didn't use long billets on it, though, but at a mere $499, it might be worth a try...

[Tory Relic]

Of all the saddles I've owned in my lifetime, my Wintec A/P will be the one I'll never part with; it's comfortable, easy to care for, and fits my horse. Mine is one of the older ones, before they had air panels and gullet changes.

[jme]

My trainer loves her Wintec Pro dressage saddle.

I also have one with traditional stuffing- not air. I don't like air "flocking".

My usual saddle is out for restuffing/fitting and I'm stuck using my Wintec. I'm NOT a saddle snob, but I really do not like the Wintec. I can't wait for my other saddle to come back from the saddle guy so I can off load the Wintec on someone, somewhere. I bought used for a back up saddle and can't even stand it for that purpose.

All that whining aside...
I love the Wintec stickiness. I like that I can trail ride in it without worrying about puddles or rain. I like that this one can be reflocked because it's traditionally stuffed.

I've been told the reason I don't like this Wintec is that it doesn't fit me. So, maybe that is the problem. I feel like I'm riding in a Western saddle when I ride in it.

I really wanted to like it.

I've also tried a couple different Isabells. I felt like I was locked in with no place to go and it hurt my back beyond belief. So, no go there. But I know a trainer who starts young horses and swears by hers.

It's a personal preference thing.

[sublimequine]

My trainer loves her Wintec Pro dressage saddle.

I also have one with traditional stuffing- not air. I don't like air "flocking".

My usual saddle is out for restuffing/fitting and I'm stuck using my Wintec. I'm NOT a saddle snob, but I really do not like the Wintec. I can't wait for my other saddle to come back from the saddle guy so I can off load the Wintec on someone, somewhere. I bought used for a back up saddle and can't even stand it for that purpose.

All that whining aside...
I love the Wintec stickiness. I like that I can trail ride in it without worrying about puddles or rain. I like that this one can be reflocked because it's traditionally stuffed.

I've been told the reason I don't like this Wintec is that it doesn't fit me. So, maybe that is the problem. I feel like I'm riding in a Western saddle when I ride in it.

I really wanted to like it.

I've also tried a couple different Isabells. I felt like I was locked in with no place to go and it hurt my back beyond belief. So, no go there. But I know a trainer who starts young horses and swears by hers.

It's a personal preference thing.

While I love Wintecs, I'm actually not a big fan of the Wintec Isabell. Like you said, it really locks you in with the very high cantle and ginourmous blocks under the flap. But I don't like saddles like that in leather saddles either. I like the 'bare bones' models with no extra 'stuff'. :lol:

[Lori]

I always say to use whatever fits your horse and you. I personally do not like the feel of synthetic saddles, but I do like the Bates. They just don't come small enough for me. :)

[HandsomeRansom]

Seems like a coincidence. I've been sitting at work thinking about getting a new saddle.
I too am a saddle snob (usually only ride in a Bevel or Hermes) but now I own 2 horses on the opposite sides of the spectrum. One could be the poster child for shark withers. The other is so round. The interchangable gullet looks desireable to me. I rode a horse in a wintec once and I couldn't believe how comfortable it was.
I need to think realisticly- I'm not showing, and when I do, its no longer in the rated shows. If I DID show, I do have my Beval, which 'sort of' fits both of my horses,thanks to padding.
I might just take the plunge.

[ponyjumper4]

I prefer leather as well, but I don't ride much right now and certainly don't feel like putting in the work to keep it up. I have a wintec I'm riding in now, but it's too big for all my ponies (it's a dressage saddle and larger size than I usually ride in). It's comfortable though and suites my purpose. I want to trade it for an AP 2000.

[Auventera Two]

I personally hate the dang things, in fact even if the fit was good for the horse I would be hard headed and keep searching, or blow the extra bucks for fully custom. If you aren't embarassed to ride in one, test riding it can't hurt.

Well bless your little heart. :sadsmile:

Fancy shmancy price tags and brand names don't mean anything to me. What works and fits the horse is most important. I love Wintecs. I've owned 2. The only reason I still don't own them is that I needed the money for my endurance saddles. I just didn't feel secure enough in an english seat saddle for long distance riding up and down hills and what not. I wanted the comfort of an endurance styled saddle. Was just my personal preference, not because there was anything wrong with the saddles. Both of mine had the CAIR panels, and I did like them very much.

The X-Wide model was good for my propane tank.

[Auventera Two]

One could be the poster child for shark withers. The other is so round. The interchangable gullet looks desireable to me.

Well, one thing you should know is that it's NOT as easy as 1,2,3 to change the gullets out. If you're intending to change it every day or every few days to switch between horses, you're better off buying 2 saddles. The gullets can be switched but it's a pain in the arse. Also it's NOT good for the saddle to be switching them frequently. You can strip out the screw holes, tear the material, bend the gullets, etc. The manufacturer doesn't recommend using the saddle as a presto-chango to use between several horses. The intent is more to use one gullet for 6 months or year then switch to another as your horse's shape changes.

Also there's more to saddle fit than gullet width. The saddle fitter I worked with shows me the wintec tree without the saddle on it. The tree fit is defined by the rock and pitch and all that other stuff I can't remember. You need to fit the entire tree to the back, not just the gullet. I'm not trying to be preachy. I'm sure you know that, but just wanted to say it again :)

[BuddyRoo]

Okay. So this thread interests me. I prefer leather. Period. I prefer it because I like leather. I am poor therefore I do not care about brand as long as it's well made and will last and fits my horse and moi. I bought my CC saddle used...have been in the market for a used dressage saddle as well.

The Wintecs are everywhere. It would be a LOT easier for me to go try out a Wintec than to get any of the leather saddles on trial. So maybe I shall.

MY problem is that I really don't know what a dressage saddle is SUPPOSED to feel like. I rode in a Wintec Isabelle that did not seem to feel right to me--but only rode in it twice. Have ridden in several Stuebens but they were quite large for me (in lessons) and so that didn't really fit either. Have never had my own.

So, as you wintec experts are rattling off makes and models, I'm confuzzled. Is an AP wintec a dressage saddle or like an AP English saddle? I want a true dressage saddle. Already have my CC. I don't like the AP English saddles because I don't feel like they put you in the right position for anything.

What should I be looking at? (looking for precise make/model info)

They're all over out there online and if you guys could steer me in the right direction, methinks I'll try one or two or ten as saddle shopping goes. ;)

(sorry to hijack, but TIA!)

[Auventera Two]

So, as you wintec experts are rattling off makes and models, I'm confuzzled. Is an AP wintec a dressage saddle or like an AP English saddle? I want a true dressage saddle. Already have my CC. I don't like the AP English saddles because I don't feel like they put you in the right position for anything.

What should I be looking at? (looking for precise make/model info)

They're all over out there online and if you guys could steer me in the right direction, methinks I'll try one or two or ten as saddle shopping goes. ;)

(sorry to hijack, but TIA!)

The AP is an All Purpose model. It's NOT a dressage saddle. The dressage models are:
Wintec 500 Dressage
Wintec Pro Dressage
Wintec Isabelle


The All Purpose models are:
Wintec 500 AP
Wintec 250 AP
Wintec 2000 AP
Wintec Wide
Wintec VSD


The Close Contact models are:
Wintec Close Contact
Wintec Pro Jump


The Endurance model is:
Wintec Pro Endurance


The Australian model is:
Winted Pro Stock CS

And then 149 quatrillion Western models, a jockey saddle, and Leadline, Icelandic, etc.

[Wigwag]

Broo - I all my searching (you remember the wintec hunt I'm sure), most of what I read on the dressage saddles indicated that people either love or hate the isabelle. It apparently has an odd twist and as said, locks you into a particular position. If that position doesn't happen to be comfortable to you or fit your body, it won't feel right.

The pro dressage was the one I would have gotten had I gone with dressage. I would like to GET a dressage saddle (when I do, I can assure you it'll be a wintec, LOL), but for now I'm doing too much AP and like my AP for that.

There are some very very good deals on ebay direct from suppliers. I can let you know who I got mine from if you'd like, as I was 100% satisfied and man did they ship FAST. I paid for the saddle (which was the sale price running in all the major catalogs), no shipping at all, and got free fittings. I hated the girth with a passion though (there was no elastic - very hard to tighten properly) and bought my own girth of much higher quality that I'm really happy with. But I got the complete gullet changing system (all sizes, plus the fitter), the synthetic "leathers" (I don't like the webbers), and the girth all for free. A great deal. No one else had that deal at the time that I could find.

A lot of places online will run deals where you pay for the saddle (and usually shipping), and get your choice of free fittings or the complete gullet kit. My place gave you everything. :)

[sublimequine]

A little reminder though; the Wintec Pro Dressage definitely has a shallower seat than most traditional Dressage saddles. Whether or not that's good or bad depends on you. As far as English saddles go, I don't really like the hugely deep seats of some Dressage saddles, as they give you little freedom. I like my Wintec Pro Dressage because it's deep enough where you've got some security, but shallow enough where you can get out of it if you have to.

Also I think the Pro Dressage comes in brown now too, interestingly enough. Never seen one IRL, but it sounds gorgeous.

Depending on where you are, you might want to take a gander at Thorowgood saddles as well. They're not quite as easy to find in the US, but very popular in the UK. I have one... it is AMAZING. I'd say definitely comparable to Wintec. They make excellent saddles for tabletop horses (ie, back is so wide and flat it's a tabletop shape :lol: ), but also for other shapes as well.

[Thomas_1]

I'd never personally recommend one in preference over and above everything else available and I've never met a saddler yet that would

[Sandra6500]

Oh please no one is being snarky. The saddles are PLASTIC people. Well put together plastic but PLASTIC.

When you change the gullet in a saddle you change the balance of the saddle. Minor as that change may be there is no way these saddles are so well balanced as everyone claims.

I bought one for my mare and although it fits her decently I won't ride in that piece of crap.

For all the talk about how great they are they sure aren't easy to sell. I've been trying to get rid of my pro dressage for months without any luck. So they can't be THAT great. HA.

[Wigwag]

IME, most people can't sell used wintecs very well because they ask too much.

When I was looking, most people sold used ones for only 1 - 2 hundred, MAX, less than brand new. I'd rather just pay a couple hundred extra and get it brand spankin new.

[BuddyRoo]

Well hey Sandra! PM me! LOL

[sunnycher]

I had my bates re-done with wool flocking (took out the air panels). I love my saddle, I ride it 4 to 5 times a week and have had it for 5 years. It has held up very well. I just rode my friend's antares, and didn't like it at all. Not that it wasn't fine, I just like my bates better. I also have a used wintec 500 dressage saddle, and it's fine ( I only ride dressage in my event test, so am not an expert). I do like the adjustable gullet. good luck, gina

[kcmel]

I've found the wintecs to hold their value very well on ebay. I was patient and got my AP 2000 for a little less than $400 (~$625 new). About the same as I paid for a Crosby and a Stubben, which would have cost at least twice as much new.

[sublimequine]

Oh please no one is being snarky. The saddles are PLASTIC people. Well put together plastic but PLASTIC.

When you change the gullet in a saddle you change the balance of the saddle. Minor as that change may be there is no way these saddles are so well balanced as everyone claims.

I bought one for my mare and although it fits her decently I won't ride in that piece of crap.

For all the talk about how great they are they sure aren't easy to sell. I've been trying to get rid of my pro dressage for months without any luck. So they can't be THAT great. HA.

And leather saddles are make from the skin of a cow. Your point? :D

[Hampton Bay]

Oh please no one is being snarky. The saddles are PLASTIC people. Well put together plastic but PLASTIC.

Many saddles these days, leather or not, have plastic trees. I seem to remember that Prestige uses a plastic tree. Kieffer, some Passiers, Vega. Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. But I guess those are all crap.

[VCT]

I had a Wintec Isabell for a while and then I sold it. It was pretty well made for the price and the super sticky seat was great but I don't think the saddle suited me personally. I never felt really comfortable in it and I felt like it tipped me forward and I was constantly fighting it. Course, thats just individual fit.

I did do quite a bit of riding in it before I sold it and it just never seemed to break in. It always felt as it did when I got it. It felt very stiff and I really like how leather saddles begin to get soft and broken in.

I also did not like the adjustable gullet system or the Cair panels. The saddle seemed NQR after changing the gullet, and you could actually see a slight amount of asymmetry that would not go away no matter what I tried.

So anyways, I personally found I did not care for it for various reasons... and I will never buy another saddle with the gullet change system or Cair panels. I might try another synthetic if I could not find something else that would work for me and the horse, but I have a synthetic western saddle and I never use it because I just don't like the feel of it. It makes me feel like there is a disconnect between me and the horse because it feels like there is a stiff barrier between us and I felt that way in all 3 of the synthetic saddles I've ever ridden in.

I think it's very much a personal preference... but just go by what fits your horse and you and is within your budget.

[Nicker]

IME, most people can't sell used wintecs very well because they ask too much.

When I was looking, most people sold used ones for only 1 - 2 hundred, MAX, less than brand new. I'd rather just pay a couple hundred extra and get it brand spankin new.

That's odd, paid $285 for my Wintec AP new, sold it 2 years later for $350. Only took a week for it to sell. Though I will say it still looked brand new when I sold it.

I would love to find a Wintec Isabell, I borrowed one a few times and absolutely loved riding in it.

[Auventera Two]

I love synthetic materials based on the type of riding that I do. We spend a lot of time in the river. Synthetics have come a long way and aren't as stiff and plasticy as they used to be. I love beta and biothane and the zilco material. One of my treeless saddles is leather, and that's fine but it would be fine if it was synthetic also.

With the busy lives a lot of us have, synethics offer relief from the constant cleaning and maintenance of high quality leather. Synthetic treed, and alternative treed saddles are becoming more popular because they don't warp like wood, they are lighter than wood, and they don't crack as easily. The saddle fitter I worked with a couple years back before I bought the Abettas, was complimentary of the Wintec saddles. In fact the second one I owned, I bought from her.

There are plenty of really nice saddles available that have synthethic trees, and/or synthetic outer materials. Leather may be traditional and customary for certain disciplines, but synthetic has it's place depending on your riding style, your discipline, or just your personal preference.

[Wigwag]

That's odd, paid $285 for my Wintec AP new, sold it 2 years later for $350. Only took a week for it to sell. Though I will say it still looked brand new when I sold it.

I would love to find a Wintec Isabell, I borrowed one a few times and absolutely loved riding in it.

It's not odd at all. You found a good deal. You'll note I said "MOST PEOPLE" - not "all people." :yes:

[cosmos mom]

I dunno :no: people seem to love them. I rode my friend's horse in her wintec Isabelle and it was just awful! The saddle fit me, but it was a horrible balance and it felt like it had no give. I have since ridden this horse in a different saddle and he was lovely, so it definitely wasn't the horse! I have decided that I will never sit it one again.

[kdail]

jme - I sent you a PM

[kdail]

Sandra - I sent you a pm.

[BKDressage]

Absatively! I've got an Isabel, and I'm really, really happy with it!


I agree...it puts you in a great position, and you stick right to it!:yes:

[PiedPiper]

Sorry if looking for a dressage or jumping saddles I would look at Stackhouse or Albion.

I am SHOCKED to hear that Dr. Harmon reccommended them.

[Kementari]

You know, I look for a saddle based on how it fits my horse and myself and how it will work for the two of us for my intended discipline, not what the tag says. I'd be ashamed if I put brand name in front of comfort and functionality. :no:

I don't like the Isabel, because I felt like it rocked me forward and locked me in way too much. The tack store owner said it was very much a love it or hate it thing for people who tried it. I LOVED the Pro Dressage, though, and if I had the money for another saddle at the moment I'd buy one in a heartbeat. :yes:

[fivehorses]

I have an AP 500 wintec with cair. I had my saddle fitter remove the cair and wool flock.

[JER]

I suspect that some of the naysayers on this thread would like Wintecs more if they had an exorbitant price tag.

We are all human and prone to human foibles. This is why expensive placebos are perceived to work better than cheap placebos (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/health/research/05placebo.html). And expensive wine tastes better than cheap wine, even when it's the same wine (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/article3177658.ece).

I have a Wintec Pro Dressage and a Pro Jump. The Pro Dressage is a great saddle if you ride different horses, especially young/green shapeshifters. The Pro Jump is a well-balanced saddle for both XC and jumping. But like all saddles, the Wintecs have to be a good fit for your horse.

I prefer my saddles to require only the thinnest of pads. The Wintecs don't fit all my horses this way and I have other saddles for those horses. The big difference seems to be in the shape of the panels; if your horse needs sloped panels rather than flat, the Wintecs probably won't fit.

I've done some endurance and I was surprised how many riders swore by the Wintec AP for LTDs. But it's really not surprising as the Wintec AP is just about the most comfortable saddle I've ever sat in.

The better Wintecs -- like the Pro Jump -- hold their value very, very well on eBay. The elusive Wintec XC (not sold in the US anymore) is almost impossible to acquire anywhere, this saddle is so sought after that people snap up spares.

[Painted Wings]

I have the last version of the monoflap All Purpose Wintec that was made before all the CAIR and adjustable gullet stuff started. It has the equisuede and long billets. I've been searching Ebay forever and have not found another one. I would love to have another.

I bought a newer All purpose 2000 with the short billets, and adjustable gullet. The balance is totally different and I hate it.

I ride in the Wintec more than any other saddle and I have an assortment as my husband used to have a tack store.

I also have the Isabell with the adjustable gullet and the cair. I do like that saddle.

My other saddles are a Devoucoux Chiberta, Passier Grand Gilbert, a Pessoa event (the old english made version), and a Barnsby Omega. I spend by far the most time in the all purpose Wintec.

Anyone have one of those old All pupose monoflaps with the long billets they want to unload in a 17 1/2 or 18" please PM me any time.

[jumpingpercheron]

Well, not all of us ride those wide-backed behemoths... ;)

Hey! :lol: Thank god for the Wintec Wide because it's a great fit for my young wide-backed behmoth. When she finishes growing I'll get her a Duett but right now I'm LOVIN the Wintec Wide!!

[tx3dayeventer]

I got my first Wintec, an AP, when they came out. This saddle is at least 17 years old and it fits nealry everything! There's not much to it, one flap, long billets. It's fit all my horses. I use it on all the babies and greenies, from the impossible to fit National Show Horse to the Lazy-Boy Shire/Paint. I also have an Isabelle, which fits most horses, is incredibly comfortable, and my sensitive TB has no complaints with it. I have a friend who spent $4000 on a custom County, only to have her trainer tell her the saddle still isn't right and she should borrow the Isabelle. For fit, comfort, longevity and price, they're tough to beat.

I have that very same saddle. My first "jump" saddle after I outgrew my hand-me-down Stubben Rex. Parents did not want to buy me another Stubben for me to outgrow in 2 years so they got me the Wintec AP. My mom still rides in that saddle today and minus one patch it is in the same condition as it was all those years ago. We also have 2 Wintec dressage saddles and one new jump saddle for the same reason. My student LOVE my Wintecs and I had one just buy a horse and bought a new Wintec 500 (I think?) and loves it. Granted I use my Albion, but on just a trail ride, I will grab my old AP, like a soft couch.

Wintec? Why not!?!!?!

[Kementari]

Hey! :lol: Thank god for the Wintec Wide because it's a great fit for my young wide-backed behmoth. When she finishes growing I'll get her a Duett but right now I'm LOVIN the Wintec Wide!!

Owners of abnormally-sized horses unite! :lol:

[magnolia73]

I've ridden in 3 wintecs.

The first was an older AP, very uncomfortable for me. Plus they made the mistake of using leather leathers which dissolved the flap in spots. The pleather leathers were hard to adjust on horse back.

The second was an AP, newer, in the equisuede. The seat was more comfortable, but the material made me feel locked in (this coming from someone who rode in a pancake flat PDN for 15 years!). You could use leather on that saddle and I liked it.

The third was a close contact in the plasticy equileather- I liked the shape of the saddle, but the material was awful- just slippy, slidey and never felt secure in that saddle.

I think you have to fit the horse and the rider. If I needed a Wintec, for ME, I would only get the close contact in the equisuede. But if the saddle works for you and your horse, that's fine. I think there is some "snobbery" - given that riding has die-hard traditions- but Wintecs are not perfect for every one.

[ponyjumper4]

I hate the equileather, but the equisuede is super nice. I had a close contact that I hated. Have an AP now that I like, but has too much "roll" for my liking, and thats with the blocks removed. Might consider looking at the wintec pro, as it is essentially the close contact with equisuede.

[Doodle]

funny you should mention this.. I am an eventer and have been looking at Wintecs for dressage.. just bought an expensive xc / jumping saddle so the wad is pretty much shot... I think I'll really look into them after reading this thread..

[Nezzy]

Some of us can see past the brand name and tag price, and appreciate a well-made saddle that FITS. I'd be embarassed to NOT have that ability. :)

AMEN! i am happy to ride in a Wintec!

[Nezzy]

I personally prefer a leather saddle, so I bought a Bates Event to jump in. It has the CAIR and the gullet system, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE it, as does my mare.

On the other hand, I have had several nice, expensive, wool-flocked saddles that the mareness hated.

Unfortunately, the Bates Caprilli (and Isabell) did not fit me. If I could have had the CAIR panels added to my foam-panel dressage saddle without ruining its value, I would. Instead I use a ThinLine pad.

Before you order a Wintec without CAIR, try a Wintec or Bates with the CAIR. Your horse may love it. Mine certainly does.

MINE TOO!!

[Nezzy]

I love synthetic materials based on the type of riding that I do. We spend a lot of time in the river. Synthetics have come a long way and aren't as stiff and plasticy as they used to be. I love beta and biothane and the zilco material. One of my treeless saddles is leather, and that's fine but it would be fine if it was synthetic also.

With the busy lives a lot of us have, synethics offer relief from the constant cleaning and maintenance of high quality leather. Synthetic treed, and alternative treed saddles are becoming more popular because they don't warp like wood, they are lighter than wood, and they don't crack as easily. The saddle fitter I worked with a couple years back before I bought the Abettas, was complimentary of the Wintec saddles. In fact the second one I owned, I bought from her.

There are plenty of really nice saddles available that have synthethic trees, and/or synthetic outer materials. Leather may be traditional and customary for certain disciplines, but synthetic has it's place depending on your riding style, your discipline, or just your personal preference.

That is exactly how i feel. i have a biothane bridle( brown ) that looks like leather, and a brown Wintec. i don't have to spend much time at all cleaning my tack, and protecting it. it is easy to clean, and lightweight.

[CosMonster]

I really like the Wintecs too, not so much with the CAIR panels though--I feel like I can't communicate well through my seat with those. The Isabell does lock you in, which I like when riding youngsters but am not so fond of when riding older horses. The Pro Dressage didn't have that same problem, for me. I also rode in a Wintec close contact for the minimal amount of eventing I did as a teenager.

I've currently got an old monoflap CC that I'm hoping is comfy for my endurance horse as I'm getting sick of using my expensive Kieffer for mountain riding in all conditions. If not I'm looking into the Wintec 250 or 500 AP as I don't have $1000 to drop on an endurance saddle right now (BTDT last summer with my other horse, and as I'm a student I'm still recovering!). If it doesn't fit her, I'll PM you Painted Wings. :lol:

ETA I love leather, and I find cleaning tack very relaxing and fun. I would never want to replace all my leather tack with synthetics, but there are some times when it's the better choice, and there's definitely nothing inherently wrong with it.