My farrier quit - trimming hooves myself?

[Bopper]

My farrier has decided to get out of the hoof business and concentrate on his full time job so now I am searching for a new farrier. I can't seem to find anyone to replace him. I have asked my vet, horse people in the area, etc. Now I am just thinking maybe I could just do it myself. I would, of course, get a lesson from a farrier before attempting this. Does anyone else do this? How often - for instance can I just file them down a little every two weeks instead of trimming every 6 weeks?

Thanks, Bopper

[JHUshoer20]

My farrier has decided to get out of the hoof business and concentrate on his full time job so now I am searching for a new farrier. I can't seem to find anyone to replace him. I have asked my vet, horse people in the area, etc. Now I am just thinking maybe I could just do it myself. I would, of course, get a lesson from a farrier before attempting this. Does anyone else do this? How often - for instance can I just file them down a little every two weeks instead of trimming every 6 weeks?

Thanks, Bopper

Go over to horseshoes.com. Open navigation menu. Find horse owner resources. Open that up. Find farrier finder. Open that and follow instructions.
That should find you what you need.

Is a myth that there is a shortage of horseshoers. Their more plentiful now than ever. Is one for every horse in some areas.

If you want to trim yourself is not that hard especially if your just maintaining every 2 weeks or so. A lot of people do it just get someone competent to show you how.
George

[ponyjumper4]

I do my own. It just became too expensive to do six trims per month, especially when I wasn't really riding them much and some aren't ridable anyway. I took a lesson with my trimmer and have her come out check on my progress. I can also send her photos of what I've done and she'll give me tips and pointers.

[JB]

Now I am just thinking maybe I could just do it myself. I would, of course, get a lesson from a farrier before attempting this.
Is your horse barefoot? If so, talk to your farrier about just what you said - lessons on how to do this yourself. You would not be the first person, by far, to learn this way, and this really is the ideal way. Ask him if you can call him to come for a paid visit every so often - more in the beginning to check your work and help you correct things before they go too far down the wrong path, and less often down the road as he agrees that you are on the right path.

Does anyone else do this? How often - for instance can I just file them down a little every two weeks instead of trimming every 6 weeks?


Yes, lots of people have learned to trim this way. How often you rasp (not file ;)) things will depend on how hard or soft your horse's feet are, the environment in which he lives, the footing on which he works, how often he's worked, any existing pathologies, and the time of year, as well as diet and genetics. You might find that in the Summer, every 2 weeks is having you trim off quite a lot if the ground is soft and you don't ride much, and in the Winter with frozen ground and naturally slower hoof growth every 6 weeks for a touch-up is fine.

[JB]

Is a myth that there is a shortage of horseshoers. Their more plentiful now than ever. Is one for every horse in some areas.

Maybe given the overall horse population vs the overall farrier/trimmer population, but in any given area of the country there can indeed be a huge shortage. Combine that with how many bad trimmers and farriers there are, it CAN be hard for many folks to find someone competent.

[Auventera Two]

That's how I started. I got some videos from Matryoshka on this forum, then my farrier started showing me how to use the rasp. I later bought a knife and he showed me that. Then I went to school and got certified. You can do it. It's not rocket science, though I think it is important to understand as much about the anatomy and function of the limb as possible.

Buy Pete Ramey's book, there's some good stuff in there. Also you can get videos of Jamie Jackson, Pete Ramey, KC La Pierre, Gene Ovenick. You can learn stuff from all of them. The best thing though is to work with a local farrier also, if possible. That helped me a lot because you have somebody to physically show you instead of trying to interpret it from a book or DVD.

KC now does 3 day workshops, you could visit www.equinepodiatry.org (http://www.equinepodiatry.org) and see if there's one in your area. Also visit Pete Ramey's site and see if he has a workshop in your area. I'm sorry I don't know his web address off my head.

Also, I think a couple of the trimmers here do workshops or have training available. Caballus and Irishcas.

I enjoy gathering info from all sides of the spectrum and putting it together into a system that works for me. I don't subscribe totally to one theory or style over another but try to use what I can from all sides.

I agree with having your farrier come every 4 or 5 months just to check up on how you're doing. I bet he'd be willing to work with you on that. My farrier was so thrilled I was learning to trim (wants to see more people in the profession) that he didn't even charge me for his visits. I would buy his lunch though on the days he came over. A chicken sandwhich and a big Coke seemed to be much appreciated. :cool:

[BuddyRoo]

I think that if you can find a good farrier who is also a good teacher, then it can work out well.

I'm currently doing my own with periodic checkups by my farrier.

In the past, to keep my horses happy, I was doing trims about every 4 weeks. One nice thing about learning how to do a bit yourself is that you can rasp more frequently and have a more consistent "perfect" functionality for each horse.

I now do mine every 2 weeks and it's been great!

BUT, I'm one of those that was VERY hesitant to do my own. SCARED would be the right word. LOL Truth is, it's not difficult if you have a good understanding of anatomy and physiology and aren't too bold--willing to ask when you don't know instead of just doing your own thing willy nilly.

[lindat]

I agree with all of the great suggestions and advice!
We do most of our trims too - BIL was a very good blacksmith and a good teacher...

[JHUshoer20]

Maybe given the overall horse population vs the overall farrier/trimmer population, but in any given area of the country there can indeed be a huge shortage. Combine that with how many bad trimmers and farriers there are, it CAN be hard for many folks to find someone competent.
Not at all JB,
This is a good one for Mythbusters. Fact is we have the same situation as do nurses and truck drivers. I mention them because if you pick up any newspaper from anywhere in the country you'll see plenty of ads for them always hiring and crying of shortages.

It's about turnover. Truck drivers have an over 100% turnover rate. Look out on the highway you see plenty going up and down the road though.

Horseshoers are worse. Only 2% of horseshoeing school graduates are still in business after 5 years. For those who's skill levels are not up to an acceptable standard we can blame many things but I think a leading reason is this lack of experience and tenure. It takes years to learn it well and be able to consistently produce well. Not many survive the initiation but the fly by night schools dump out another class every friday as they've been doing for the past 30 years.

Ok, sorry I'll dismount my soapbox now this is stuff for another thread but point being there is no shortage.
George

[JB]

Not at all JB,
This is a good one for Mythbusters.

"Not at all" what? How can you imply that everyone has ample access to qualified farriers or trimmers? That's just not the case. Just because there is a country-wide ratio of, say, 1:100 farriers:horses does not mean that any given horse owner has access to a farrier who is within a 2 hour drive. Any given location can have that ratio at 1:25 but any given location (though probably fewer locations) can have that ratio at 1:1000.

The issue doesn't go away until there are enough competent farriers/trimmers in all areas of the country. It doesn't matter about the turnover rate, it matters what exists at any given time.

[JHUshoer20]

"Not at all" what? How can you imply that everyone has ample access to qualified farriers or trimmers? That's just not the case. Just because there is a country-wide ratio of, say, 1:100 farriers:horses does not mean that any given horse owner has access to a farrier who is within a 2 hour drive. Any given location can have that ratio at 1:25 but any given location (though probably fewer locations) can have that ratio at 1:1000.

The issue doesn't go away until there are enough competent farriers/trimmers in all areas of the country. It doesn't matter about the turnover rate, it matters what exists at any given time.

Ok, some more accurate figures here. Can we both agree that there are approximately 9 million horses in this country?

For those 9 million horses we have at least a minimum of 30,000 horseshoers.
Add to that about 20,000 or so barefoot trimmers and owners who trim and shoe their own and such. How many of them are shod? Lets say a small percentage?

By those numbers I see 180 head of horses for each one to work on.
To make a decent living it takes about 300

First of all I think there are more shoers and trimmers than that but this is the best estimate anybody's been able to compile. With these numbers if everybody was working the same it would come out to 6 a day. As you know some guys do more some guys do less but the ratio shows that the work is very well covered.

Additionally, there are more than ever on the feed store bulletin boards as well as a ton of them on the internet. Yet horse owners continue to believe that more horseshoers are needed.

If you might have some different numbers lets compare
George

[JB]

George, you're completely missing what I'm saying. I don't know numbers of horses, don't know numbers of "professional" farriers and trimmers, don't know the number of owner-trimmers, but I have no problem believing the total ratio of farriers/trimmers to horses is quite acceptable overall.

I DO know there are folks out there with nobody who can trim or shoe their horses - either they live close enough but aren't competent, or the good ones don't live close enough to come out for a couple of horses. It's not about total numbers, it's about proximity, and that is what leads people to want to learn to trim for themselves.

[LMH]

I have been trimming my own for almost 5 years.

Best decision I have ever made.

[JHUshoer20]

I DO know there are folks out there with nobody who can trim or shoe their horses - either they live close enough but aren't competent, or the good ones don't live close enough to come out for a couple of horses. It's not about total numbers, it's about proximity, and that is what leads people to want to learn to trim for themselves.

LOL actually I've always kinda wished more people would give it a try. I think it would give many of them a greater appreciation for it:yes:
George

[Auventera Two]

I found that most guys won't travel more than 20 or so miles to do horses. So that cuts down your numbers to a 20 mile radius from your home. Then trim out those that you simply don't "want" to use for whatever reason (bad reputation, fees too high, other personal reasons), and you're lucky if you're left with 1 or 2 to pick from. From that 1 or 2, what if something goes wrong, like say the guy quits farriery and goes back to his regular full time job? Now you're down to no one. Or you're trying to get someone to drive 30+ miles, sometimes 50 or 60 miles to your place, or you're trailering out somewhere.

We got dumped twice because the farrier started pruning out the far reaching clients. Anybody beyond about 20-25 miles got dumped.

Even if there are 150 trimmers and farriers in your own state, that doesn't mean that all those can come and do your horses.

And some farriers are very picky (with good reason) on the conditions. If you don't have a concrete barn aisle with lights, they won't take you on.

Some farriers specialize in a specific style of shoeing, and if your horse doesn't fit that style, they won't take you on.

There are many factors determing who you have available for services and just looking at raw numbers of horses to professionals isn't a fair way to go about it.

[JB]

It certainly gives me a great appreciation for those who do this all day every day. There is no way I'd put up with some of the nonsense that owners "insist" their farrier/trimmer put up with from their horses :no:

[ybiaw]

If you don't want to go the trim them yourself route, could you possibly call your old farrier and ask him/her for a reference for a new one?

[JHUshoer20]

I found that most guys won't travel more than 20 or so miles to do horses. So that cuts down your numbers to a 20 mile radius from your home. This problem is exascerbated by fuel prices. Working on horses is piecework. Wasting most of the day driving costs money Then trim out those that you simply don't "want" to use for whatever reason (bad reputation, fees too high, other personal reasons), and you're lucky if you're left with 1 or 2 to pick from. I'm sure you got a few more than that From that 1 or 2, what if something goes wrong, like say the guy quits farriery and goes back to his regular full time job? Obviously he wasn't making a living at it then. Other side of that coin is going to a place ready to shoe and owner changes mind and decides only trim today? Or gives him much less to do than he planned for but waits till he comes out to tell him so it blows his whole day that he could have filled with other work? Understand if a guy doesn't have enough to keep him busy he won't last Now you're down to no one. Or you're trying to get someone to drive 30+ miles, sometimes 50 or 60 miles to your place, or you're trailering out somewhere. And I think I've shown why but not to worry there will be a new guy out there soon enough

We got dumped twice because the farrier started pruning out the far reaching clients. Anybody beyond about 20-25 miles got dumped.
Did you try to gather a bunch of people together in the area to make it worth the guys while to serve an entire region? Or was there about 3 or 4 guys all working in the same barn?

Even if there are 150 trimmers and farriers in your own state, that doesn't mean that all those can come and do your horses.
Not all 150 but surely somebody can and will

And some farriers are very picky (with good reason) on the conditions. If you don't have a concrete barn aisle with lights, they won't take you on.
Yeah soon as we can we get out of pigstys. I got a pet peeve for mud myself.

Some farriers specialize in a specific style of shoeing, and if your horse doesn't fit that style, they won't take you on.
Yeah a lot of guys are getting into certain specialties. You're less likely to go down the road when somebody cheaper knocks on the barn door that way
George

[BuddyRoo]

I guess I don't really understand the point of arguing whether or not there are a lot of farriers?

I've found that as I've moved and needed to find a new farrier, there are plenty out there. The majority I'd never let touch my horses. The really good ones have long waiting lists or live quite a ways away.

When it comes down to it, there may be a plethora of farriers out there...but that doesn't necessarily mean there are a plethora of options given location and ability.

Regardless, I'm failing to see what that has to do with the OP's question regarding--CAN YOU DO IT ON YOUR OWN?

And to me, the simple answer is YES! Given some time and dedication to learning the necessary skills, it's quite possible.

[Melelio]

Yes you can. I do my 3. I would never have been able to afford trims every 2-3 weeks after they got laminitis from IR. I enjoy it alot, and learn more every time.

Get the reference books and DVDs mentioned above. Maybe there's someone here close that can mentor you a bit. I had someone help me and it was invaluable.

[cheryl ann]

Yep, you can do it...

I've been trimming and maintaining my horses' feet myself for about 10 years, now.

A good, satisfying feeling and skill to have and know.

[Rancher]

I recently moved away from the 'big city' and after my move I had NO LUCK finding a farrier or trimmer of any kind. One guy for the entire huge area and he isn't taking any more clients and the clients he has tell me he never shows up. I guess horses are just a job he does on the side. I had NO CHOICE but to do my horses myself. I had taken a 6 hour shoeing class before (yes I am serious, it was a back country packing school) so I was fairly confident....but I wanted to learn how to do a REAL barefoot trim instead of a shoeing prep trim like I had been taught. I actually found a barefoot clinic being held about 3 hours from my house. I hauled my daughters quiet pony there to use as a guinea pig. Best choice I ever made. The internet has helped a LOT and I feel much more confident now. Now no one touches my horses except ME.

[reillyshoe]

Yes, you can do it yourself. I would start by attending a farrier school for a minimum of 3 months. After that, I would plan on apprenticing with someone for a year or two. Follow that up with several lectures and workshops in a year.

[LMH]

Yes, you can do it yourself. I would start by attending a farrier school for a minimum of 3 months. After that, I would plan on apprenticing with someone for a year or two. Follow that up with several lectures and workshops in a year.

To TRIM??? Or shoe?

If to shoe, I guess I can see that...but to TRIM?:eek:

[Lookout]

My farrier has decided to get out of the hoof business and concentrate on his full time job so now I am searching for a new farrier. I can't seem to find anyone to replace him. I have asked my vet, horse people in the area, etc. Now I am just thinking maybe I could just do it myself. I would, of course, get a lesson from a farrier before attempting this.
Yes, you most likely can do this, but I think you will need more than 'a lesson' from a farrier.

[Lookout]

To TRIM??? Or shoe?

If to shoe, I guess I can see that...but to TRIM?:eek:

That doesn't sound that unreasonable to me. :(

[LMH]

I guess I just don't know many DIY trimmers that attended farrier school for 3 months, THEN apprenticed for 1-2 years.

CERTAINLY if you have professional aspirations, but just for your own I think can be accomplished with a less formal education.

I am not saying videos alone will cut it-and you certainly need watchful eyes...

[Rancher]

Ya okay. I took a 6 hour shoeing class and a two day barefoot class and I feel FINE trimming my own horses. I think I am okay because I am very good at art. I can see how the hoof is supposed to look and I can make it look like that. It's really NOT that hard to get the angles right, get the hoof even, and trim it so it looks really good. You just use your landmarks and go with what the horse is telling you they would like done. Of course you need to take some sort of class and practice, but it's NOT rocket science if you are just doing your own horses (and they have normal feet). It's different when you go out in the field and come across bad hooves, clubbed hooves, foundered hooves etc. The original poster isn't talking about becoming a profession, they are talking about doing their own horse.

[reillyshoe]

I guess I just don't know many DIY trimmers that attended farrier school for 3 months, THEN apprenticed for 1-2 years.

CERTAINLY if you have professional aspirations, but just for your own I think can be accomplished with a less formal education.

I am not saying videos alone will cut it-and you certainly need watchful eyes...

Are you implying that is is not as important to trim your own horses well?

[reillyshoe]

In order to manage feet well, there are several important factors. You need to understand anatomy, conformation, and movement. There is no way one can be well educated in these areas after a six hour class (even if you are Monet). Three months is not enough time to understand how to implement these concepts in practice, hence the apprenticeship.

Given the amount of time devoted to the nuances of shoeing and/or trimming on this site alone, I am a bit surprised that there isn't a push for making hoofcare a 4 year education program.

[ASB Stars]

OK, maybe if you have never seen a horse before, and cannot figure out when one is off, or lame, and where. Or even what that thing the horse is standing on really does, and how.

There has never been a time that I haven't watched, and asked questions about what exactly my blacksmith was doing, on every horse I have ever owned. You need to pay attention- and learn. I didn't pick a foot up one day, and say, "WOW, I can do this- it is EASY!"

But I did realize that I could accomplish what the blacksmith was doing- primarily because he told me that I could :winkgrin: In a NICE way.

I watched your predecessor trim feet with an angle grinder, and I'll admit, the first time, I was a bit taken aback. Now, I see it as a marvelous use on horses/ponies with a ton of nasty old foot.

We all can choose to learn.

[Daydream Believer]

I am another trimmer who started on my own horses (a herd of about 20-30 Spanish Mustangs...some of which with very neglected feet originally) for several years and recently...about a year ago...started to trim a bit for others. I was practically begged to by a number of people who could not find a reliable farrier or one who would do a decent trim. Now I am trimming about 50 or so..including my own...varies a bit by season. I have worked with farriers and some very well respected trimmers. I have probably done twice as much self study as school course would teach but I always feel like I can learn more and seek to do so. I do have a mentor who I can call for help if I need it and who I train with when I can get away from my full time farm here which is a 24/7 job in itself. I wish I had the time to do a certification course as I'd love to have that opportunity as well as the chance to work with more folks...but taking that time to be gone is so hard and really nearly impossible with real life commitments...not to mention the cost...I am 45 and probably will not be trimming full time ever at this point in my life. So I will probably continue as a part time trimmer and try to pick up what I can from local farriers who I work with still and my Barefoot trimming mentor. I doubt I'd ever have anyone else work on my horses as I have yet to see anyone locally who I feel will do the trim the way I want it. There is a definite shortage of good farriers/trimmers in our area. No CJF's at all and I am the only person in the area with any training as a BF trimmer.

I don't think though that anyone needs to go to that extent to trim their own horses nor to go to any sort of course to do it. My suggestion would be to try and find a barefoot trimmer or a farrier in your area that will let you ride with them and learn under their eyes and assistance. Read everything you can and learn the anatomy. Attend clinics and keep an open mind. You will be amazed at how rewarding it is and if nothing else, what you learn can help you evaluate professionals that you hire to work on your horses.

[Lauren!]

I think it's a realistic goal to trim your own :yes: especially if they are barefoot and basically in good shape. There are some good books and websites on the subject(hoofrehab.com, clickandtrim.com, ironfreehoof.com are some of my favorites), but I would definately ask your farrier if he would help you get started as well. If he can't, perhaps someone else in your area can (and there are some resources tor finding people who give trimming clinics... can't think of them of the top of my head, but post if you need it later). Having someone show you hels A LOT... I bought a rasp and just tried to smooth out the edge of a jagged hoof a while back and I was all thumbs... I spent a day with a professional trimmer and she made it EASY and I went home and trimmed one of my own horses.

Yes, you can rasp a little every few weeks rather than trim every six weeks. Many people say it's better for the hooves that way, and I tend to agree. I currently do all the trimming on my old guy (the reason I wanted to learn... he's really grumpy, stiff, and hard to work on, so I had a hard time finding someone who was very patient AND did a really nice job) and I do maintenence trims on my other horse (and I take him to a great trimmer periodically for feedback and tweaking). I am so happy I learned more about hooves and trimming... I feel a lot more confident knowing that I can do basic stuff in the event something happens and a farrier isn't available. The only drawback I see is that I bought a LOT of stuff by average horse owner standards (hoofjack, rasps, knives, tools, etc... $250+ so far, don't get me started on books, lol). Also, I've become really picky about feet, I guess that's not really a drawback, but I wouldn't let just anyone touch my horse's feet anymore! Also you find yourself staring at any hoof you can find :lol:

[Bopper]

Just to clarify. Both horses are barefoot with okay hooves (no extreme problems). I worked for vets, trainers, etc and took 'horse production' in college. I have watched literally hundreds of horses being trimmed and shod and always asked questions and discussed different aspects with farriers. I have a basic understanding of what to do I just need guidance on how exactly to do it.

Also, in this area there are just not a huge number of horses and not a lot of skilled farriers. If you go 30 miles east or west there are plenty but I am in the boonies as far as horse people are concerned. Working full time makes it difficult to haul my horses somewhere to get then trimmed every 6 weeks.

[Night of Songs]

Another good site

http://thehorseshoof.com

[Lauren!]

Are you implying that is is not as important to trim your own horses well?

I think there's a big difference between someone who is interested in maintaining their own basically healthy barefoot horses and can seek out help if they run into a problem, and a professional farrier or trimmer who is expected to be able to deal with almost any problem they encounter and correct pathological hooves.

[LMH]

Are you implying that is is not as important to trim your own horses well?


Yes of course, that is exactly what I mean. I place no value on the trim and only feel the shoe is important.

Come on now, let's not twist words.

I learned to trim my horses without farrier school or a 2 year apprenticeship-but maybe I am just the exception because I am really smart. :rolleyes:

[CosmosMariner]

We are considering trimming a few of our horses ourselves as well. Just the easy ones!!

Thanks fo rthe reference to the books and videos. Maybe I will get brave and just go for it!

[redleaflady]

Here is another great website:

http://hooftalk.com/

I started trimming my show horse last march by this method. She had a mechanical lameness that that vet and farrier couldn't resolve after having two major injuries to the same leg. We all agreed it was not a pain issue (wouldn't block or bute out). After the second month and working with her chiropractor, she was sound. Her "clubby" foot now has a normal angle and is not so contracted. I pulled the shoes off my TB last July and started doing the trims myself. She moved like a navicular horse and hadn't been sound in years (she's 18). She is a horse I would nave never thought would be sound barefoot. She bruises very easily. Now she is sounder than she has been in years! For the first time since I have had her (got her at 4) she doesn't have underrun heels. It is scary at first but you will get more confidence with practice. I now trim some of my school horses when they need it and even had someone pay me that was desperate to get his horse trimmed.

I have seen this method of trimming "fix" high low heels, and founder (in less than a year). The founder was a bad one where the coffin bones came through the soles of both front feet. Now that horse's feet look as though he had never foundered.

[Auventera Two]

Yes, you can do it yourself. I would start by attending a farrier school for a minimum of 3 months. After that, I would plan on apprenticing with someone for a year or two. Follow that up with several lectures and workshops in a year.

You are correct for a person who wants to trim professionally. When you trim professionally for other people, you will be dealing with founder, navicular, trauma, neglect, LTLH, who knows what else???

When you're trimming your own horses who have decent feet and have been well maintained by a farrier, I don't see the need for as much training. Yes, you should know all the anatomy and functions of the various parts of the foot. You should have a working knowledge of balance and soundness, but you sure don't need as much training and schooling as if you want to trim for other people.

I don't like to read posts from people saying you just pick up a knife and a rasp and whack off whatever don't look good. Didn't we have that discussion here already? ;) You should educate yourself as much as possible through reading, studying, asking questions, and attending clinics or workshops. But I don't think an apprenticeship or a certification is necessary. I've started the second level of certification (in the 2nd month of that now), because I trim for other people. This is going on my second schooling year. And I've apprenticed with a farrier. But this is because I advertise and trim for other people. If I were just doing my own, I might not have done the certification and I definitely wouldn't have worked with the farrier that long.

[reillyshoe]

One in ten horses will become lame every year. 80% of this lameness be localized to the foot. The potential for problems in the foot is high, and so should the skill and knowledge of the person attending to the hoofcare.

I highly doubt that any of you would be comfortable hiring someone to take care of your horse's feet with a knowledge base that included a 6 hour trimming workshop, yet you all seem pretty sure that you are the exception- that your knowledge base makes you different from others learning the profession. I am not trying to twist any one's words. Why does it matter if you are trimming other peoples horses for money or your own? It seems to me that you are either competent to make decisions about how to manage feet, or you are not.

[BuddyRoo]

Reilly-you make good points.

But let me tell you why I feel more comfortable doing my own vs doing someone else's with minimal training.

I know my horses.

For example...I have one mare who will be 17 this year. I have been present for every trim or shoe she's received during that entire time. I understand her conformation (which actually makes her a bit of a difficult case). I know what has worked with her in the past and what has not.

And lets not forget...I didn't forge out on my own with reckless abandon. My FARRIER suggested that I learn to keep up my own horses. And my FARRIER feels comfortable with my knowledge and ability. And my FARRIER is supervising.

Very different ballgame than if I were to go out and start doing other people's horses.

It's kind of like my job. I do systems engineering. I design things. I document how they work. And I train people to use them. It is not necessary for the end user to understand or be capable of doing my job from scratch. It is only necessary for them to understand how to use the tool, and know where to get help if needed.

When you're starting with a well maintained hoof and have help and guidance, it's really NOT that imperative that you be competent to tackle all other types of hooves. You just need to know how to maintain the ones you have in front of you.

This is not to minimalize the importance of a competent farrier. I am not saying I can do YOUR job. I'm saying, I can take care of mine and mine only.

[TBrescue]

My friend is a certified barefoot trimmer who trained with Pete Ramey. She is teaching me how to trim my own. Unfortunately she lives 700+ miles from me. She came here, pulled my horse's shoes, fitted him for boots and taught me how to trim, but more importantly she taught me what to look at and how my horse's feet are supposed to look. We are working on growing out his underslung heels and he is doing great. His feet look good and he is landing heel first now, not toe first like he did when shod.
I'm not saying anyone should just go grab a rasp and knife and hack away, but with proper training and guidance it is not that hard to trim your horse's feet. My suggestion would be to look for a barefoot trimmer in your area who can teach you and use the internet resources available to learn from.

[Daydream Believer]

She came here, pulled my horse's shoes, fitted him for boots and taught me how to trim, but more importantly she taught me what to look at and how my horse's feet are supposed to look.

Knowledge is a powerful thing isn't it? :yes: Good for you! :D I found that learning to trim my own was incredibly empowering also. I think horse owners should take classes, go to clinics, self study...or do whatever it takes to learn what a properly trimmed/shod hoof should look like and how to evaluate the work of the people they hire to provide care to their horses. Even if you never pick up a rasp, you at least know if your hoof care provider is doing a basically good job or not...and know the right questions to ask if you perceive an issue. I am stunned at how few people have any idea of what a good basic trim is and just blindly trust that the person they have hired knows what he or she is doing.

[Lookout]

Yes of course, that is exactly what I mean. I place no value on the trim and only feel the shoe is important.

Come on now, let's not twist words.

I learned to trim my horses without farrier school or a 2 year apprenticeship-but maybe I am just the exception because I am really smart. :rolleyes:

I think there are different ways one can do an 'apprenticeship', maybe not even realizing they're doing one. I'm sure you know people who learned to trim at home, but had lots of input over the years from many sources and 'teachers', including what they gleaned over the internet ;) . And it probably took more than 2 years.

[Lookout]

My friend is a certified barefoot trimmer who trained with Pete Ramey.
Where is her certification from?

[TBrescue]

http://www.americanhoofassociation.org/

[ASB Stars]

You know, the other issue here is that most of these people are working on their own horses feet- feet that they have watched their farrier trim ad infinitum. They aren't going out, and venturing willy nilly into other peoples problems.

I have a blacksmith. I have him help withthings that are out of my comfort zone to deal with. I have one mare that I have had shod to show. I will probably put glue ons on her this year. The ones I watched Sigafoos perfect.

You know, I came to the conclusion that I wasn't a genius a long, long time ago. Then I realized that most of the rest of the folks out there aren't, either. They work at learning something, and do their best. I know that my best may not be as good as someone who has been doing this longer, and has more natural talent. But I'll trust my horses to my ability over someone elses skill, all other things being equal.

And thank Gawd that other than an abcess or two here and there, they've managed to stay sound with my "benign neglect" :yes: :lol: :winkgrin:

[LMH]

I think there are different ways one can do an 'apprenticeship', maybe not even realizing they're doing one. I'm sure you know people who learned to trim at home, but had lots of input over the years from many sources and 'teachers', including what they gleaned over the internet ;) . And it probably took more than 2 years.

I may know ONE person :lol:

I think I said a few posts back I wouldn't JUST learn off a book and DVD as well.

It isn't simple, it can be a tough learning curve BUT there is no reason an owner can't learn given a commitment to learn. Ya know?

[reillyshoe]

I am not suggesting that some individuals will not be able to trim horses successfully with limited training. I have, however had horses put in front of me whose problems are a direct result of their owners- trimming in a manner that caused an issue. In many cases, the problem could have been avoided if the owner had simply hired a trained, knowledgeable professional to take care of the feet.

[Daydream Believer]

I am not suggesting that some individuals will not be able to trim horses successfully with limited training. I have, however had horses put in front of me whose problems are a direct result of their owners- trimming in a manner that caused an issue. In many cases, the problem could have been avoided if the owner had simply hired a trained, knowledgeable professional to take care of the feet.

Certainly true...but that can go the other way around too. People who are professionals can certainly screw up feet too. I am amazed at some of the poor quality work I see on horses done by people who are supposed to know what they are doing!

[ASB Stars]

I am not suggesting that some individuals will not be able to trim horses successfully with limited training. I have, however had horses put in front of me whose problems are a direct result of their owners- trimming in a manner that caused an issue. In many cases, the problem could have been avoided if the owner had simply hired a trained, knowledgeable professional to take care of the feet.

I'm just guessing here- but you have probably had horses put in front of you that other professionals from your field of expertise managed to challenge enough that somebody decided it was time to take them over to NBC, and have a lameness evaluation- right?

[Lookout]

Certainly true...but that can go the other way around too. People who are professionals can certainly screw up feet too. I am amazed at some of the poor quality work I see on horses done by people who are supposed to know what they are doing!

That's true, and likely because these 'professionals' have little or no education themselves. So it only confirms the argument and need for getting more education/experience before trying to trim feet.

[Daydream Believer]

That's true, and likely because these 'professionals' have little or no education themselves. So it only confirms the argument and need for getting more education/experience before trying to trim feet.

Au Contraire...some of the messes I've seen made of feet were by some supposedly highly qualified people!

[Lookout]

Au Contraire...some of the messes I've seen made of feet were by some supposedly highly qualified people!

Highly 'qualified' does not necessarily mean correctly trained or educated. The examples further confirm the need for good education. As one of my college professors used to (ungrammatically) say 'choose your models scholarly'.

[Appassionato]

Certainly true...but that can go the other way around too. People who are professionals can certainly screw up feet too. I am amazed at some of the poor quality work I see on horses done by people who are supposed to know what they are doing!

While I understand what you and Lookout are getting at, sometimes the hooves in question can't be corrected all at once either. Again, in that I understand what you and Lookout are talking about, believe it or not I was once "dumber" about hooves than I am now :p and some horse's conditions are exascerbated or even caused by poor workmanship. I've certainly seen that myself. I really do hear y'all's point.

In that I understand reillyshoe's points as well, if there is ANYTHING that is "different" about the OP's horse's feet, then that might need to be addressed instead of possibly pushed to the extreme. Hoof imbalances can travel up the leg and cause irreversible damage.

Basically, I see farriery/trimming to be a lot like art: some people are artists, some people attempt to fake it with paint-by-numbers, and some can only draw a stick figure. Farriery and trimming is no different IMHO. There are things I can do and I can do it well. I won't attempt trimming (Bo's hinds) because while I'm anal and OCD enough that Jaye would probably trust me, the only thing I was ever good at with my hands in sports was keeping them quiet. Forget art, I can barely manage a stick figure. :winkgrin:

[Altamont Sport Horses]

I've seen considerably more messed up feet (in degree and in quantity) due to professional farriers than I have from well intentioned horse owners. In fact, the only less than satisfactory specimens I've seen were because the owner had an incompetent farrier in the first place, the owner recognized that but couldn't find anybody better so he/she started working on the feet themselves so they had likely improved since the farrier had worked on them.

Learning to trim correctly with all the proper basics in foot anatomy, movement, as well as hands-on guidance etc. is a wonderful and rewarding experience. I highly recommend learning how to trim from a barefoot trimmer because, unfortunately, many farriers do not perform a correct trim to hold up to barefoot performance (and it sounds like you are not wanting to shoe your horses). Many farriers will trim the horse as if there will be a shoe tacked on afterwards. And from my own personal experience, even if the shoe was tacked on afterwards the trim would still be wrong for the horse's foot. This is why there are so many horses with contracted heels, underslung heels, long toes, navicular (yes, due to improper foot care and not years of jumping), etc. No offense intended to any farriers on this forum. To say that some farriers do poor work is not to say that all farriers do poor work. I have had the same experience with a poor barefoot trimmer but I can recognize that does not mean that all barefoot trimmers are bad either. Anyway, I digress. Reading anything that you can get your hands on... books, websites, watching videos, and most importantly hands on seminars will help you immensely. The in depth seminars including cadaver hooves are very educational and help bring it all together. I would recommend looking for a group of people in your area that are already actively involved in barefoot trimming and see if you might be able to join up to some degree in order to learn. The barefoot people are usually quite willing to share and teach as much as possible because they want what's best for the horse. My trimmer works on my horses, teaches me and evaluates what I have done between her visits. It is a process.


After all this you will never look at a horse's foot the same way again...and that is a very good thing.

[Appassionato]

I've seen considerably more messed up feet (in degree and in quantity) due to professional farriers than I have from well intentioned horse owners. In fact, the only less than satisfactory specimens I've seen were because the owner had an incompetent farrier in the first place, the owner recognized that but couldn't find anybody better so he/she started working on the feet themselves so they had likely improved since the farrier had worked on them.

Learning to trim correctly with all the proper basics in foot anatomy, movement, as well as hands-on guidance etc. is a wonderful and rewarding experience. I highly recommend learning how to trim from a barefoot trimmer because, unfortunately, many farriers do not perform a correct trim to hold up to barefoot performance (and it sounds like you are not wanting to shoe your horses). Many farriers will trim the horse as if there will be a shoe tacked on afterwards. And from my own personal experience, even if the shoe was tacked on afterwards the trim would still be wrong for the horse's foot. This is why there are so many horses with contracted heels, underslung heels, long toes, navicular (yes, due to improper foot care and not years of jumping), etc. No offense intended to any farriers on this forum. To say that some farriers do poor work is not to say that all farriers do poor work. I have had the same experience with a poor barefoot trimmer but I can recognize that does not mean that all barefoot trimmers are bad either. Anyway, I digress. Reading anything that you can get your hands on... books, websites, watching videos, and most importantly hands on seminars will help you immensely. The in depth seminars including cadaver hooves are very educational and help bring it all together. I would recommend looking for a group of people in your area that are already actively involved in barefoot trimming and see if you might be able to join up to some degree in order to learn. The barefoot people are usually quite willing to share and teach as much as possible because they want what's best for the horse. My trimmer works on my horses, teaches me and evaluates what I have done between her visits. It is a process.


After all this you will never look at a horse's foot the same way again...and that is a very good thing.

Once again, what did the seriously-messed-up-by-a-farrier hoof look like before? Comments made in regards to "navicular"...what x-rays were performed and how was this diagnosis made?

I too have experienced bad farriers AND bad vets. It's a shame that horse owners fear changing hoof professionals more than hiring a plumber. Or any other profession, for that matter. Something does need to change, for sure.

And many farriers (quite willing and want what's best for the horse) are willing to teach trimming too. Several of the trimmers here at this forum learned to trim from farriers. Furthermore, some farriers/trimmers have a particular knack for a certain pathology...it seems that all have something to offer.

The only problem I have with cadaver hooves is the focus on statics rather than dynamics. Of course it's a starting spot...but at a starting spot, should one weild a hoof knife? Or nippers, or rasp?

[Altamont Sport Horses]

Let's see...they have high and contracted heels, long/deep and folding over bars, long toes, unbalanced from one side of the hoof to the other...the list goes on. And yes, diagnoses of navicular have been made by Vets using x-rays from multiple angles. Inproper angles on the foot can put prolonged strain on the navicular joint area of the foot and cause the same navicular syndrome as seen in horses that have been jumping for many years. I've seen x-rays of navicular in young to middle aged horses that have never been jumped. I've also seen x-rays of degraded coffin bones caused by poor hoof angle. The small group of trimmers in our area that will teach others actually maintain a collection of x-rays of horses with these problems, with photos of their feet from all angles and even in some cases, the horse's hoof with all soft tissue removed after the horse's death so you can see the damage that was done to the bones. These are very educational case studies that will open your eyes.

The natural hoof seminars that I have attended started with cadaver hooves but then also used live horses. We weren't trimming them, we were learning about the anatomy and seeing what year's of improper care had done to these feet. We observed many trims, saw many historical cases (including history of photos taken trim after trim to see the progress). We even brought some of our own horses which I think was invaluable for learning about your own horses' particular hoof problems or tendencies. We did not start trimming horses in one seminar which incidentally was not 6 hours but 2 full days. Those of us who were interested continued to learn, to observe and work with an experienced trimmer and move forward from there. Others were armed with enough knowledge to find a better farrier or trimmer in their area.

I am not hesitant to try new farriers. I have already tried all of them in my area that had any potential and some of them I did not bother to try because I have seen many samples of their work and knew it was a waste of time and money that would only cause my horse pain and problems. Sure, the farrier schools will be pumping out more new farriers but how will they be better if they were trained in the same programs and principles? The saying goes something like...Do what you've always done and you'll get what you've always gotten. Still, I have tried that too in hopes of finding someone. No dice. I'm not alone in this. I have a friend in upstate NY who has had such trouble that a group of them fly someone in from WI to do their horses' feet every 6 weeks and friends in other parts of the country who also cannot find good footcare.

I would venture to guess that there are oodles of people out there who are currently satisfied with their farrier even though they really shouldn't be. This is simply because people don't really know what a healthy foot should look like because they've been seeing the same wrong thing for so long. There is nothing wrong with owners learning more about the health and anatomy of their horse's feet so that they can make educated decisions on their future care. Furthermore, if they learn enough that they feel confident enough to begin working on their own horse's feet with proper supervision, all the power to them.

Incidentally, I have seen WB stallion inspections where otherwise very good stallions were not approved because of foot/leg issues. It was painfully obvious to me that the many of these were due to inproper foot care. I could see it from 10 feet away. I can't imagine putting your heart into bringing along a nice horse and spending that kind of time and money on it only to ruin it's chances through inproper footcare. It has to be done right from the time they are young or the bones will set and you are stuck with a horse that toe's out/in, is too upright in the pasterns, etc. I'm not saying trying to correct horses with poor foot/leg conformation, I'm saying that horses with already good foot/leg conformation can be damaged by poor footcare while they are growing. So I maintain that many people don't know what a healthy horse foot should truly look like or they would be firing their current farrier/trimmer before their fine young horse is permanently damaged.

So to the original poster, I say learn all that you can and go for it with the help of an experienced professional that does it correctly. Let us know how it goes.

[Auventera Two]

The only problem I have with cadaver hooves is the focus on statics rather than dynamics. Of course it's a starting spot...but at a starting spot, should one weild a hoof knife? Or nippers, or rasp?

I'm not so sure that I agree with that. Of course a cadaver is static and not dynamic, but the theories of dynamic function apply just as thoroughly. The way I was taught to trim involved referencing the live sole plane as the basis for the entire trim. Some people trim to the dorsal hoof wall. Set the angle at 54 degrees, and dress up the capsule to match. I don't believe that "good" farriers do this, but certainly some.

There's some new dude over at horseshoes.com who constantly talks about "setting the angle at ____." He's also posted photos of his work and it's horrifying. I had quit going to that forum except maybe once a week but now I visit every day because I just can't wait to see what bazoo he's spouting. It's like a bad movie you can't tear your eyes off of.

To "me" static trimming is just setting an angle, or trimming everything to exactly X Y Z, PERIOD. Regardless. I wasn't taught to trim that way. I was taught to reference the live sole plane and take into consideration all the many nuances of the hoof when determining the final trim for that particular hoof. Every horse and every hoof is different. And even every cadaver hoof.

So while a cadaver can't trot off on the lead for you to see, you can still apply dynamic principles to a static structure. Couple that with the work on live horses and you have some powerful learning experiences.

Also you can tell a lot about the horse the cadaver was attached to by setting the foot on the ground, loading the limb yourself, and examining the growth patterns, cannon bone, fetlock, etc. We had to tell if it was a front or hind foot (easy), if the horse was toed in, toed out, relatively straight, if he landed laterally or medially, and what could we tell about his pathologies. For example, sidebone, ringbone, heel pain. It's really amazing what you can tell about a cadaver when you spent a while examining it and putting all the puzzle pieces together.

So I'm not sure what you were getting at. It seemed to me you were saying trimmers' education is substandard because they work on cadavers. I would have to take issue with that statement. If that's not what you were implying, then my apologies are due. :)

And I agree that trimming or shoeing is an art. You can paint by number or you can create a masterpiece through your innate skill and love of the subject in front of you. I was a kid in high school the first time I rasped a foot and pulled a loose shoe with a pair of pliars. I ocassionally did a touch up if needed and sort of always knew I wanted a career in hooves and equine lameness. Being a piano player, I love working with my hands. Trimming hooves seems to be a great fit for me.

[reillyshoe]

A couple of points:
1. I am not advocating the indiscriminate superiority of farriers. Unfortunately, there is no minimum education or training standard for the industry. The horse owner in question has every right to but some tools and hang out a shingle if he/she chooses to do so.
2. We do not know enough about foot form/function/pathology to prevent problems just through better education. We just do not understand the limb well enough (yet). I am positive there are horses I could have handled better, and I do not claim to be perfect.
3. While an educated hoofcare practitioner might not guarantee success, I would take my chances with someone trained over a period of years rather than someone who has completed a weekend seminar or received advice on the internet..

[Appassionato]

I'm not so sure that I agree with that. Of course a cadaver is static and not dynamic, but the theories of dynamic function apply just as thoroughly. The way I was taught to trim involved referencing the live sole plane as the basis for the entire trim. Some people trim to the dorsal hoof wall. Set the angle at 54 degrees, and dress up the capsule to match. I don't believe that "good" farriers do this, but certainly some.

There's some new dude over at horseshoes.com who constantly talks about "setting the angle at ____." He's also posted photos of his work and it's horrifying. I had quit going to that forum except maybe once a week but now I visit every day because I just can't wait to see what bazoo he's spouting. It's like a bad movie you can't tear your eyes off of.

To "me" static trimming is just setting an angle, or trimming everything to exactly X Y Z, PERIOD. Regardless. I wasn't taught to trim that way. I was taught to reference the live sole plane and take into consideration all the many nuances of the hoof when determining the final trim for that particular hoof. Every horse and every hoof is different. And even every cadaver hoof.

So while a cadaver can't trot off on the lead for you to see, you can still apply dynamic principles to a static structure. Couple that with the work on live horses and you have some powerful learning experiences.

Also you can tell a lot about the horse the cadaver was attached to by setting the foot on the ground, loading the limb yourself, and examining the growth patterns, cannon bone, fetlock, etc. We had to tell if it was a front or hind foot (easy), if the horse was toed in, toed out, relatively straight, if he landed laterally or medially, and what could we tell about his pathologies. For example, sidebone, ringbone, heel pain. It's really amazing what you can tell about a cadaver when you spent a while examining it and putting all the puzzle pieces together.

So I'm not sure what you were getting at. It seemed to me you were saying trimmers' education is substandard because they work on cadavers. I would have to take issue with that statement. If that's not what you were implying, then my apologies are due. :)

No apologies needed, and yes, that is what I'm getting at. Not barefoot vs. farriery, but that looking at a cadaver hoof/leg is great to begin with but not the whole story when it comes to trimming/shoeing a live animal that depends on what you just did to it (good or bad). Education has to begin somewhere, but not from cadaver to live animal by yourself. as you know, trimming (and of course shoeing) is a forever learning experience that requires a continuous commitment as LMH pointed out.

And FWIW about horseshoes, thank goodness for farriers that do speak their minds and say what's up, huh? :winkgrin:

And I agree that trimming or shoeing is an art. You can paint by number or you can create a masterpiece through your innate skill and love of the subject in front of you. I was a kid in high school the first time I rasped a foot and pulled a loose shoe with a pair of pliars. I ocassionally did a touch up if needed and sort of always knew I wanted a career in hooves and equine lameness. Being a piano player, I love working with my hands. Trimming hooves seems to be a great fit for me.

I've pulled shoes myself and duct-taped a thousand or more times! But trimming? No way will I try it. I am NOT good with my hands in that way. I can see things, I can't make them happen with my hands.

[JHUshoer20]

There's some new dude over at horseshoes.com who constantly talks about "setting the angle at ____." He's also posted photos of his work and it's horrifying. I had quit going to that forum except maybe once a week but now I visit every day because I just can't wait to see what bazoo he's spouting. It's like a bad movie you can't tear your eyes off of.


Oh No! You're talking about our buddy NORVAL?!!!!:eek: Say it ain't so Vickey!

Best poster child for state licensing to ever come on there:yes:

Problem is because of his little girl type whining we have to put up with him for now:mad:
George

[Auventera Two]

Hey, I'm not namin' names. :D :lol:

But I'd say your guess is in the right ballpark. haha

[Appassionato]

Oh No! You're talking about our buddy NORVAL?!!!!:eek: Say it ain't so Vickey!

Best poster child for state licensing to ever come on there:yes:

Problem is because of his little girl type whining we have to put up with him for now:mad:
George

"Eddie" is no better! :lol:

[JHUshoer20]

"Eddie" is no better! :lol:
"Eric" is ok. He's a good guy and at least is a horseshoer. That's more than can be said for that other clown:winkgrin:
George

[vanheimrhorses]

i learned i apprenticed under a farrier who taught me, and i bought the really expensive $60 some dollar farrier textbook and i practiced on my 28 horses until i got really good, a trim will last 4-6 weeks once you know how to do it, you dont want to do it sooner as he will be constantly footsore from filing too much off and never growing protective coating of hoof, farrier videos are the best
and for all the nonesense posted and spouted in language no one can understand trimming a hoof is not rocket science, it is pretty basic to do a normal trim and not hard at all to learn

[Appassionato]

"Eric" is ok. He's a good guy and at least is a horseshoer.

It's a free country! And at least he is there learning, even if not admitting it online. ;)

That's more than can be said for that other clown:winkgrin:
George

Me or "Ellie"? :D

[JB]

a trim will last 4-6 weeks once you know how to do it,
Highly depends on the individual horse's situation

you dont want to do it sooner as he will be constantly footsore from filing too much off and never growing protective coating of hoof,
If you're taking off the protective coating, you shouldn't be. If you're rasping too much off, you shouldn't be. Doesn't matter whether you're working on the foot weekly or monthly.

[ASB Stars]

I have found that the most challenging issue with my horses feet usually respond best to doing a little bit at a time, every couple of days or so.

Just my .02 :winkgrin:

[Bryan McElwee]

By those numbers I see 180 head of horses for each one to work on.
To make a decent living it takes about 300



You can make a mighty fine living off 180 horses if you charge right! Say you have 180 horses on your books. Out of those 180 40%(72 horses) are shod the other 108 are barefooted.

72 horses @ $150 on a 5 week rotation comes out to $108,000

Now the other 108 are barefooted. Lets say on a 2 month rotation @ 40/ head. That comes out to $25920.

So that comes out to 133,920 a year. Thats a pretty decent living if you ask me.

[Daydream Believer]

You can make a mighty fine living off 180 horses if you charge right! Say you have 180 horses on your books. Out of those 180 40%(72 horses) are shod the other 108 are barefooted.

72 horses @ $150 on a 5 week rotation comes out to $108,000

Now the other 108 are barefooted. Lets say on a 2 month rotation @ 40/ head. That comes out to $25920.

So that comes out to 133,920 a year. Thats a pretty decent living if you ask me.

Don't forget to deduct fuel costs from that! I paid $100 to fill up my truck the other day. I suspect the cost of shoeing those horses is a lot higher than the trims also but I couldn't say as all I do is trim.

[JB]

*I* won't be paying $150 every 5 weeks.

[JHUshoer20]

You can make a mighty fine living off 180 horses if you charge right! Say you have 180 horses on your books. Out of those 180 40%(72 horses) are shod the other 108 are barefooted.

72 horses @ $150 on a 5 week rotation comes out to $108,000

Now the other 108 are barefooted. Lets say on a 2 month rotation @ 40/ head. That comes out to $25920.

So that comes out to 133,920 a year. Thats a pretty decent living if you ask me. Hypothetically, you know full well it doesn't work that way though. First of all your numbers are gross pay before expenses. I doubt 40% would be shod but nonetheless what we're talking about here is each and every last horse in the country.
How many of them get regular hoofcare? Can we say less than 100% of them?

How many guys charge that much? I'd say 4 out of 5 people on this board alone will say they'd start looking for a cheaper guy.

Vickey even said she has ones to choose from that she wouldn't use. Guess what people it wasn't always that way! When I was coming up you had no such choice. You used the guy who serviced your area because there was nobody else. There was no didn't like the guy or too expensive or whatever. You used him or it didn't get done. Now you got thousands from a mouseclick.

AFA records have proven to be quite an accurate indicator of horseshoer population in that their approximately 10%.

Thus, by membership alone New Jersey has more available horseshoers than Kentucky. A shortage there's not.

Now, let's find a demographic of horse people that could fill a guys book to make the kind of living you describe and I think you'll find the real shortage.
George

[rmh]

It is like a lot of professions. Total numbers may be okay but distribution isn't even. some areas are over served and many under served.

[JB]

It is like a lot of professions. Total numbers may be okay but distribution isn't even. some areas are over served and many under served.

Finally, someone who said it in "3 words or less"! :D

[longview_bc]

Oh No! You're talking about our buddy NORVAL?!!!!:eek: Say it ain't so Vickey!

Best poster child for state licensing to ever come on there:yes:

Problem is because of his little girl type whining we have to put up with him for now:mad:
George

Hi all,

George,

When Patty's book comes out he'll really know what all the bad farriers in his barn are doing wrong and everything will be good.

Kevin

[Bryan McElwee]

*I* won't be paying $150 every 5 weeks.
I didnt say you had to!

Hypothetically, you know full well it doesn't work that way though. First of all your numbers are gross pay before expenses. I doubt 40% would be shod but nonetheless what we're talking about here is each and every last horse in the country.
How many of them get regular hoofcare? Can we say less than 100% of them?

I was simply stating that you can make a living off 180 horses. You could have more than 40% of them shod. I know in my business its probably close to 70% shod.

How many guys charge that much? I'd say 4 out of 5 people on this board alone will say they'd start looking for a cheaper guy. I dont charge $150. Im higher than that. $150 was just an easy figure to use. Its not about what everybody else charges. Its about what you are able to charge. The quailty of work and the clientel you chose to service. I know your not going to get a weekend warrior to pay that. Therefore I service a different type of clients.

Vickey even said she has ones to choose from that she wouldn't use. Guess what people it wasn't always that way! When I was coming up you had no such choice. You used the guy who serviced your area because there was nobody else. There was no didn't like the guy or too expensive or whatever. You used him or it didn't get done. Now you got thousands from a mouseclick.

AFA records have proven to be quite an accurate indicator of horseshoer population in that their approximately 10%.

Thus, by membership alone New Jersey has more available horseshoers than Kentucky. A shortage there's not.

Now, let's find a demographic of horse people that could fill a guys book to make the kind of living you describe and I think you'll find the real shortage.
George
The days of the cheap guys are coming to an end. You cant afford to be charging $50/ head anymore. Youll have to turn out 10 plus horses a day to even afford fuel.

[JHUshoer20]

The days of the cheap guys are coming to an end. You cant afford to be charging $50/ head anymore. Youll have to turn out 10 plus horses a day to even afford fuel.

Simple laws of supply and demand will keep prices down. While I agree with you about costs and such, I think you'll see part-timers grow exponentially. As well as guys who marry well or are drawing a pension from something else. Hasn't this been going on for a long time anyway?

In my area I can't imagine Amish raising prices or worrying much about fuel.

Cheaper guys will indeed not last but there will always be plenty more to replace them.
George

[JHUshoer20]

Hi all,

George,

When Patty's book comes out he'll really know what all the bad farriers in his barn are doing wrong and everything will be good.

Kevin

You mean he doesnt know that already?:eek:

Patty and Norval are both professors so they can get along. Strangely enough neither of them can spell so maybe that helps communication too. If she's writing a book I hope she has it spell checked.

Even so I won't wait for it to be on the NY Times bestseller list:rolleyes:
George

[Lookout]

AFA records have proven to be quite an accurate indicator of horseshoer population in that their approximately 10%.

Thus, by membership alone New Jersey has more available horseshoers than Kentucky. A shortage there's not.


New Jersey also has the highest horse population in the country, supporting those farriers and a billion dollar industry in the state. So I'm sure it evens out in the wash.

[JHUshoer20]

New Jersey also has the highest horse population in the country, supporting those farriers and a billion dollar industry in the state. So I'm sure it evens out in the wash.
Do you have anything credible you can cite for that?

Reason I ask is because I spent enough years over there to have heard that on and on ad nauseum and I always thought it was BS.

If there is some real horse census numbers to show that not to be a mere pipedream of the NJ horse council I'd be interested and would stand corrected on it. (Especially when comparing to KY)
George