Do I have a case? Horse broke leg. [Archive]

candyo

Mar. 2, 2008, 09:34 AM

Cherry

Mar. 2, 2008, 09:44 AM

Well, how much money do you want to spend???

Does your BO carry care, custody and control insurance??? Any insurance???

You might be able to recoup your losses by going to small claims court. Not sure if there is a cap (claims under $5,000. or not). It would be in your best interest to at least speak with an attorney to see what your best course of action would be since every State is different.... But it sounds as if you have a case.... :yes:

Before people start saying, "Things just happen to horses." Well, yes they do. But it's one thing if the horses territory is safe and they do "it" and quite another when the pasture is unsafe and the BO doesn't care enough to clean up the problems.... :uhoh:

sketcher

Mar. 2, 2008, 09:49 AM

As far as the junk, barbed wire and such, it seems that if it was that bad you should have been aware of it. What is the rest of the place like? How big is the field?

As for the hole, I don't think you will get very far. Horses sometimes step in holes and hurt themselves.

I'm sorry to sound snippy, especially in light of your horse having such a severe injury but the 'lawyering up' comment rubs me the wrong way. Why didn't you walk the field yourself after the first injury?? Have you tried talking to the owner of the boarding stable? If your horse stepped in a hole, why should they be responsible for it? I sometimes have had gopher holes in my pastures and have always been lucky (fingers crossed) but know there could be a day a horse gets seriously injured galloping around.

It would be a nice gesture if the barn owners offered to help with the vet bill but I'd also like to hear their side of the story.

Mar. 2, 2008, 09:50 AM

Before people start saying, "Things just happen to horses." Well, yes they do. But it's one thing if the horses territory is safe and they do "it" and quite another when the pasture is unsafe and the BO doesn't care enough to clean up the problems.... :uhoh:

Unfortunately no one will ever be able to prove that these injuries were a result of the dangerous conditions of the pasture. Lots of horses have injured themselves, sometimes fatally, in "horse-safe" pastures and stalls. One can easily point fingers at the owner for not even checking the conditions in which her horse would be turned out.

Unfortunately I don't think you have any case :( It wouldn't hurt to talk to an equine lawyer just to see, but I think you're SOL here.

Dianna

Mar. 2, 2008, 09:57 AM

It will all depend on your specific set of laws that govern equine liability. But I suspect that you would that contributory negligence would come into play (i.e. that you had a duty to safeguard your horse - i.e. checking out the field).

Have you tried "discussing" this with the property owner? They may feel some sort of obligation and might be willing to be of financial assistance or some other assistance in the care of your horse. As for the septic wound, sorry, but that is on you too (partially). While the nail may have caused the problem, what did you do to "treat" the wound? Did you get the vet out, has she had her tetnus shots, etc., etc.

I suspect your question was one more out of frustration and perhaps a bit of guilt ...

shakeytails

Mar. 2, 2008, 10:07 AM

Did you find any evidence that your horse injured herself on these "hazards"? If not, my guess would be you're SOL. If I were sitting on a jury, you'd have to convince me that the BO knew of such dangers and those dangers caused the injuries to your horse. Perhaps another horse caused the injuries, or she stepped in a woodchuck hole or even just slipped on mud or wet grass and came down wrong on that leg.

I had a horse come in from pasture once with the backs of both front pasterns sliced. After walking the field numerous times, we could find absolutely nothing that could have caused it. Maybe he was playing in the creek and sliced himself on a sharp rock, or got tangled with a tree branch or vine, we'll never know.

Sometimes shit just happens, and no one is to blame.

2 tbs

Mar. 2, 2008, 10:26 AM

I know an instance where horses were in horse safe conditions (is there even such a thing :winkgrin: ) but a horse got kicked by another boarders horse in front of a handful of people. Unfortunately the horse that got kicked suffered severe damages to both front legs (double barrel kick square to the upper legs for no apparent reason at all :( ) and ended up being euthanized.

I know that's not exactly the same situation as the OP's but even with witnesses the owners of the horse that was put down were told there was nothing they could do-to the BO or the other horse owner. According to the staff they were brining horses in for evening feed and even though they were all standing at the gate they were calm until one just got mad apparently and let the other have it. It was also noted this was not the first time the kicker has kicked at the gate-unfortunately this time he connected.

One would have thought since this horse was a known kicker then the staff would bring that horse in first to avoid such a sitution-no attorney thought they could prove negligence in any way simply because "things like this just happen to horses" :(. No one wanted any harsh feelings in the barn so they just let it go. We know these things happen and we sometimes let our emotions step in front of reality. I'd love to say my horse is as important as a human child but the laws just don't see it that way.:no:

deltawave

Mar. 2, 2008, 10:38 AM

I'm very sorry for you, but is calling a lawyer going to really help beyond PERHAPS (this is debatable) get you some money? Was the horse insured?

Thinking ahead, do you want a precedent set that a boarding stable can be held responsible in the case something tragic happens to a horse? What do you think that will do to the local boarding "economy" and environment?

It's great to have a barn manager you can trust, but it's the responsibility PRIMARILY of the horse's owner to keep the animal in the safest environment you can manage. That may not wind up being PERFECT for everyone--we ALL make some compromises on horse care some time or other--but if you signed a contract with the barn, I would think that sort of implies you have accepted the conditions offered.

I'm honestly not trying to be hard-hearted, but WHO, exactly, was "grossly negligent" here if a horse was knowingly boarded in a facility with barbed wire, loose junk, etc? :uhoh:

sweetwater

Mar. 2, 2008, 10:46 AM

I'm sorry to here your horse got hurt, and I hope everything turns out good in the long run.

OK, here's my "piece of advice". Whenever you board your horse at a new place, it's your responsibility to make sure where you choose to leave him is safe. I would never leave my horse somewhere (anywhere) without checking for dangers in the pasture and any other place your horse will be spending time.

I've even walked thru pastures with a flashlight in the middle of the night, on the rare occasion my horse had to stay over at someones house after a trail ride.

Don't mean to preach, but if there were that many hazards in the pasture, you should have made yourself aware of them before deciding to board your horse there.

That said, I had a horse break a leg in a small dirt paddock, with no holes, and watched her do it. She reared up and pivoted on her back legs and snapped the left rear. I think it would be hard to prove negligence on the BO's part, because it can literally happen anywhere.

Good Luck!

Ghazzu

Mar. 2, 2008, 10:58 AM

spiral fractures are usually a result of torque.
I've seen one that occurred when the horse was "turned out " by himself in a well maintained indoor arena.

I think you'd be hard pressed to prove it was due to the pasture and not just a case of "crap happens".

candyo

Mar. 2, 2008, 11:13 AM

OP here, thank you for all replies. It was exactly the perspective I needed. However I will say that I do not feel "guilty" about my horse's injury, as one poster intimated. When I chose to board at this facility, I was given to understand that the field in question was not one of the places the horses would be turned out. The other fields/paddocks were appropriate for horse turnout. When the barn manager/boarding facility owner decided to turn out there, I (incorrectly) assumed that the field had been checked, because if I were running the business, that is what I would have done. The hazards I described were in the back section of the field, not visible from the gate/run in shed areas. So much for trust. Next time I'll know better.

I totally agree that "stuff happens" and horses get hurt. The first person I talked to about this was the barn manager/owner, and she wasn't particularly willing to help, other than make a few concessions on my horse's care (not charging for bandaging, etc). She also admitted that she bore some responsibility, then backpedaled on this when she realized what it could cost her. I am not a particularly litigious person, in fact have never had any reason to hire a lawyer. I am not out to "shaft" the business owner, in fact I consider her a friend. But the fact remains that I am not a rich person, my insurance is maxed out, and she does carry liability insurance, but I guess the burden of proof would be on me. So, despite the fact that I am SURE this would not have happened (due to the nature of the injury, it was not just a fracture) if the horse weren't in the field, I will probably chalk it up to experience.

I do welcome further opinions however. Thanks again for the input.
candyo

deltawave

Mar. 2, 2008, 11:24 AM

Unfortunately, not all losses can be compensated monetarily.

Cherry

Mar. 2, 2008, 11:36 AM

Well, when I pay someone to take care of my horse on their property I expect that the person will take due diligence as to my horse's safety. I think a reasonable person would assume that the Barn Owner is not going to put their horse's safety at risk by allowing all kinds of garbage (that a horse could find a way to get injured by) in an area where the horse would be turned out. It is the Barn Owner's property and not the horse owner's property so why should it be the horse owner's responsibility to know that that crap is there???? Yes, as a horse owner I suppose one would think the horse owner "should" know--but when push comes to shove, why is it the horse owner's responsibility???? It's not as if it is "self" care..... When in full care it isn't even necessary for the owner to go out to the pasture unless the horse is out and the horse is to be ridden.... :uhoh:

This is why we have courts and this is why some of these cases end up in those same courts.... Why should a horse owner have to pay for a BO's negligence? Not saying that this is the case here since a torque could happen anywhere but doesn't this BO bear some responsibility since this horse was injured otherwise (cut that went septic) at his/her facility???

Does this BO carry care, custody and control insurance??? Does that not cover partial veterinary reimbursement for these injuries???

I guess I just think responsibility goes both ways.... :winkgrin:

CowboyShoePolish

Mar. 2, 2008, 12:37 PM

I guess I just think responsibility goes both ways.... :winkgrin:

Good answer. The threshold for presenting your case in a civil court is much lower than the evidence needed in a criminal case. You MAY be able to collect some restitution if you can demonstrate the cause-effect of the damages. The "Monday morning quarterback" approach to the conditions of the paddock will be viewed through the eyes of the Judge and may not be as clear cut as you might like to think.

If the BO had foreknowledge of 'holes' and released the animal out anyways vs. something happened to the horse in the field, seem like two complete ends of a spectrum. I would think that there is room for some negotiations. There might be a 50/50 split of the costs incurred, if you did file. You might want to approach the BO and see about some reduction in fees over the coming years to compensate for your monetary loss, thus saving the cost of litigation in a civil court. The BO stands to lose 100%, so why not turn it into a win - win for both of you?

:yes:

Flash44

Mar. 2, 2008, 01:21 PM

If you signed a boarding contract, read it carefully. You may have agreed that you inspected the facility, or facility is being offered "as is." Also, is the facility licensed? When was the licensing agent last there?
==
Also, think about what would happen if you successfully won. Are you establishing "bad case law" in the eyes of horse owners and boarding facilities? Will insurance companies now require all boarding facilities to be constructed out of certain materials, and every inch of fencing inspected daily? Will this drive the already high cost of boarding horses (for both owners and facilities) out of the reach of most people?
==
I'm sorry your horse got hurt. But unless you actually saw it happen, you have no way of knowing what happened. My 3 yr old son broke his leg running down a grassy hill. I was 12 feet away from him, as were 2 other adults. No one ever dreamed such an injury could occur in such a seemingly safe place. He just took a bad step.

egontoast

Mar. 2, 2008, 01:30 PM

No, you don't have a case. You don't know what caused the injury.

Dianna

Mar. 2, 2008, 02:07 PM

OP, I didn't mean to suggest you "should" feel guilty about anything. However, for me, when one of my horses (or horses in my care) are injured (for whatever reason) I always find a place in my bag of emotions for feeling some guilt over what I could have done differently. Does it help, not really, but it is just how I am - I didn't want you to think I was saying you should feel some guilt.

clanter

Mar. 2, 2008, 02:14 PM

Actually pretty smart of her or just luck on her part of having the 16 yr check the field as far she is concerned she knew of no "hazards" therefore even if there were hazards she would not be liable under many of the states laws.

Due diligence is what a reasonable person would do or the performance of an act with a certain standard of care … now what is a reasonable person and how far would that person have gone?

Sounds like a $25,000 to $30,000 legation

Laurierace

Mar. 2, 2008, 02:21 PM

Even if you could prove that there were hazards in the pasture that caused the fracture I believe it is a non issue as you were the one who knowingly put your horse in that pasture. As Ghazzu said spiral fractures are generally torque fractures which means you would have to sue them for your horse feeling so good he actually ran around and broke his own leg. Would you rather he was in such poor condition all he could do is amble around?
Sorry for your bad luck, but it happens and if you are going to own an animal you better get used to it. This could easily become the longest thread in COTH history if we were to all give an inventory of our horses injuries.

Kementari

Mar. 2, 2008, 04:31 PM

Thinking ahead, do you want a precedent set that a boarding stable can be held responsible in the case something tragic happens to a horse? What do you think that will do to the local boarding "economy" and environment?

:yes: :yes: :yes:

Thank you!

You know, we all go around complaining about the need for/cost of liability insurance, how horrible it is that our society is so litigious, and the privileges and spaces we lose because of that - and then as soon as something happens that might possibly in some way be partially blamed on someone else, people want to sue. :no:

It does sound like there were unsafe conditions - but the injury wasn't caused by those conditions. A horse running and bucking and twisting a leg can happen in any field. And even if the conditions had caused the injury, at best you share liability with the BO, because it is also your duty to inspect the premises on which your horse will be kept.

Also, you need to consider whether the cost of litigation is actually worth it: depending on your state, you may not even be able to collect attorney's fees (and you're going to spend money outside of those fees in lost wages and productivity for the time you spend litigating), and in many places the most you'd be able to get is whatever the vet bill comes to. While that is not insignificant, your attorney's fees aren't going to be insignificant, either, so it may not even be worth it even if you did win.

little miss

Mar. 2, 2008, 04:54 PM

Sorry to hear that your horse has been injured. Horses are pretty fragile animals and can get hurt fairly easily. Sorry to sound so blunt, but if you don't have the extra money to pay for these unexpected bills you should have had insurance before hand. Unless someone intentionally did something to injure my horse, I would NEVER think of sueing them. When you sue the other people, and try to get their insurance to pay for it, their insurance rates could quite possibly go up in the future, all because of an injury which your horse could have done anywhere at any time.

Have you already moved him to another stable? If so good, and if not I'd assume you don't think that this facility is *that* bad.

Melissa.Hare.Jones

Mar. 2, 2008, 05:05 PM

The barn's insurance exists to help cover situations like this. I don't see anything wrong with investigating whether you have a claim.

Laurierace

Mar. 2, 2008, 05:07 PM

Cases like what? The horse ran around and hurt himself. How on earth can that be considered ANYONE'S fault, let alone the barn owner? Maybe she should sue God.

Beverley

Mar. 2, 2008, 05:18 PM

If it were me, no, I would not pursue any sort of legal or financial remedy. Stuff happens. I've seen too many catastrophic injuries with the best of care, and every reasonable precaution taken, that can only be attributable to horses being horses, and bad luck.

saddleup

Mar. 2, 2008, 05:50 PM

I think that anyone who's been around horses for any time at all knows that they hurt themselves.....frequently.

Every horse I've ever owned has at one time or other been hurt. Not seriously, thank goodness, but I've spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars over the years on vet bills, not to mention months hand-walking/doctoring various injuries. It's just part of it, as far as I can tell.

You can do everything in your power to horse-proof their surroundings, and they will still find the one thing in their environment that can hurt them.

They don't come with a guarantee, unless it's that they WILL hurt themselves.

sweetwater

Mar. 2, 2008, 05:52 PM

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you feel guilty, it's just the way you explained the property being so bad when you finally went and looked at it.

I'm not saying you should inspect every inch of everything...it probably sounded like I meant that...sorry.:)

I'm just saying that you brought up the fact that you didn't know there was barbed wire, nails sticking out in several places, and a junk pile in the pasture. A quick "once over" of the pasture, fencing, etc. would be a standard thing to do when considering a place to board.

Hope that clears up what I meant.

Again, I really hope everything turns out OK with your horse, it's a really hard thing to have to go through.

equinelaw

Mar. 2, 2008, 06:13 PM

You have a case, but whether you would win or it would be worth the time and expense depends on what state you live in.

I have to agree with Gazzu though--the injury the horse suffered is NOT the type cuased by the dangerous conditions you mentioned unless it really did happen in the pile of junk.

Asking professionals if you should sue is going to get you many NO answers from BO and YES answers from lawyers.

Care, custody and control insurance is there for a reason. If this were a valuable race horse would the owners sue? Yep.

What state did this happen in?

donkeyman

Mar. 2, 2008, 10:13 PM

I would video the entire pasture and the area immediately and subtly. Based on your description it seems like the horse would be running around to cause that injury which makes me wonder if the horse was upset and left to run and not brought in timely; was out with another horse and no one told you; did another horse get loose and cause your horse to become upset? How far is the paddock from the barn? Was ground icy etc?

In order to collect on care custody and control the barn owner would need to simply say the horse was turned out by staff in a place where it should not have been. She will likely have to pay a tad more in premium the next go around but at least it would help offset $5,000 of your bills. I would demand at the least you do not get charged for additional care.

You did say the barn owner said the horse would NOT be turned out in that paddock so did you discuss that up front and she told you she does NOT use that paddock?

Where was horse when they found the fracture? In the paddock or stall?

You may need to grill the 16 year old and see if she says anything odd like the horse was running and left to run

Unless you get better thoughts on what happened I would tell you NOT to throw good money after bad

equusus

Mar. 3, 2008, 08:48 AM

Read your boarding contract very carefully. I am betting that it says that the BO is not responsible for accidents. If it does, you are probably out of gas.

Sorry your horsie is hurt, but it is going to be hard to prove anything.

Maybe approach the BO about helping you pay the bills? Maybe 50/50? Maybe some free board?

Good luck

april

thumbsontop

Mar. 3, 2008, 08:58 AM

I think I'd try to be very tactful when dealing with the barn owner, and if you haven't done so already, find somewhere else to keep her. Otherwise things would be awkward. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

I honestly don't think you have much of a case. You think she stepped in a hole, and would sue a barn owner about that? Holes turn up in pastures when there are critters around (groundhogs,etc). It would be different if someone had seen the horse run right through the pile of junk you saw. And what would that mean to the boarding industry if barn owners thought that they could be sued every time a groundhog dug a hole on their property. It was an accident that no one saw. I have a "perfectly" safe board fenced field and guess what? Horses come in with nicks now and then that I can't explain. Your horse could have also just plain stumbled. Unless you can prove otherwise I wouldn't pursue it. I wouldn't even expect the barn owner to pay any bills. It's really not her fault.

Jsalem

Mar. 3, 2008, 09:35 AM

OP, I'd say that if you're prepared to be unwelcome at this barn and very likely at any barn in your area, by all means, "lawyer up."

If your intention is to drive this BO out of business, then certainly, "lawyer up."

I'm so sorry that your horse is hurt. But this is why you should have insurance. There is no way to know for sure what happened to your horse. But it happened. Now deal with it. If you don't think this barn can care for your horse, you need to move.

J Swan

Mar. 3, 2008, 09:40 AM

Adding this thread to the list of reasons I will never take in boarders. Thanks for the reminder.

Last time I checked; even in the most top notch equestrian facilities, horses manage to commit suicide.

Rancher

Mar. 3, 2008, 11:26 AM

I can't see how a horse can break it's leg in a junk pile. Horses don't just crawl through junk. At least I have NEVER seen it, and I have seen a lot of horses living in junk yards that didn't have a mark on them.

I thought spiral fractures were caused by twisting. As in the horse probably did it to itself. As in run, buck, twist, break.

I can't see how someone can sue someone for something like that. I couldn't imagine suing anyone for anything though. Maybe it's just me, but I can always put myself in the other persons shoes and the thought of someone suing ME makes me think twice. I couldn't imagine getting punished for an accident.

There is no way the BO intentionally hurt your horse. It was an accident. A very sad accident.

dkcbr

Mar. 3, 2008, 11:35 AM

OP, I'd say that if you're prepared to be unwelcome at this barn and very likely at any barn in your area, by all means, "lawyer up."

That is what I was thinking.

I, too, am sorry about the situation but I would think very, very carefully about the long term implications of sueing in such a seemingly unclearcut circumstance.

sid

Mar. 3, 2008, 12:13 PM

Ditto, J Swan.

And people complain that some of the nicer facilities no longer board. I only accepted boarders for a few years. I quickly realized that it could take only one disgruntled individual, who does not acknowledge the nature of horses or understand that their environment cannot be controlled 100% of the time (despite every reasonable effort to do so) to jeopardize everything I have worked so hard for. Just not worth the risk for what pittance is made in the boarding business.

Just Wondering

Mar. 3, 2008, 12:21 PM

you'd have to convince me that the BO knew of such dangers and those dangers caused the injuries to your horse.

What does your boarding contract say? Ours has a clause: THE STABLE OWNER AND/OR STAFF SHALL NOT, WHILE EXERCISING REASONABLE CARE, BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR ILLNESS, ACCIDENT, FIRE, THEFT OR DEATH.

ASB Stars

Mar. 3, 2008, 12:32 PM

I keep my horses at home, however, several years ago, I needed to move them off of the farm to have some extensive work done on the property.

I had them at a facility run by a gal I had known since she was a child. At the time, I had ne gelding who couldn't be turned out with othr geldings. They'd beat him up. So, he was turned out with mares, per our understanding.

One Sunday morning, I had a funny feeling I should go and check on them. I drove into the barns driveway, just in time to see my horse standing with half of his mandible hanging out of the right hand side of his face. He was spitting out blood, and one of his teeth.

The perpetrator was standing on the other side of the field. A gelding that the Sunday help had turned out with my boy, and his two girl friends.

In any event, he had emergency surgery at New Bolton Center, and the care, custody and control insurance paid for that, and his care after I removed him from NBC, the morning after surgery. He healed up just fine.

What have been told regarding some losses being unquantifiable is absolutely correct. I wanted to do physical harm to the idiots that let the injury happen- but, they were idiots. You can't fix stupid.

But you CAN get your horse fixed, Thank God- and, IMHO, they should compensate you for the care involved.

Laurierace

Mar. 3, 2008, 12:42 PM

Is there a statute of limitations on accidents? If I can go back far enough, I am going to be RICH!!! Gimme a break.

katarine

Mar. 3, 2008, 12:46 PM

I thought spiral fractures were caused by twisting, too? I don't see how rusted nails that backed out of boards, junk in the corner, etc, caused this injury. yeah, they shouldn't be there, but they didn't hurt this horse in this case. I'm very sorry your mare is hurt but that's just horses, unfortunately.

and has been mentioned above, the notion of a boarder lawyering up over an accident like this- no proof of anything being done wrong- makes me shudder. Shinola happens, this time it was your horse :( Again, I'm sorry she's hurt but those bills are yours to pay, no one elses.

riverbell93

Mar. 3, 2008, 12:53 PM

OP, consult a lawyer. There's a reason they spent 3 years in school while we were doing other stuff. They actually know special things :) Sorry, but I hate these threads where someone asks for advice on whether to pursue something legally and everyone gets on their hobbyhorse about frivolous lawsuits. Emotionally, I feel for the OP - her BO seems to have been dishonest what with turning the horses into a field that was represented as not a horse field, sending a teenager to check the field, etc. But I'm not a lawyer and I have no idea if a judge will see this the same way. If you feel strongly enough that the BO's behavior led to the injury, spend the money for a legal opinion whether you have a good civil case. Good luck!

subk

Mar. 3, 2008, 12:56 PM

I believe this to be a case of gross negligence.

"Gross" negligence implies "willfull and wanton disregard" for the horse's saftey. Yet, the BO sent someone out to check the pasture. I don't think you have a prayer.

LAZ

Mar. 3, 2008, 01:09 PM

Ditto JSwan as well.

I do the best I can to take care of the horses under my care. Do I go out anytime they run and bring them in? No. Do I check every board on my fences daily? No. Do I check every nail on every run in shed daily? No. Do I check every single stall every single day for nails that have backed out? Only on the horse that friggin' kicks the walls because he's a jerk and hates anyone who is next to him.

If I did all that I would have to hire another, full time person; board would have to go up to cover their wages and insurance. I can hear the screams of protest from my boarders in my imagination....

Do I provide daily turnout and inspection of all horses? Yes. Do I know the eating habits of each horse on my farm? Yes. Do I feed good quality grain and nearly free choice hay? Yes. Do I know what is normal behaviour for each horse on my farm? Yes. Do I do my very best to turn out in like, small groups in safe environments? Yes.

Do horses get hurt anyway? Yes.

Luckily I have good boarders who, to the best of my knowledge, would never institute legal action for their horses' injuries.

I would not accept any boarder that started legal actions in this sort of circumstance, nor would I accept their entry at any of my shows or clinics.

Trixie

Mar. 3, 2008, 01:47 PM

I, too, am sorry about the situation but I would think very, very carefully about the long term implications of sueing in such a seemingly unclearcut circumstance.

Yes - keep in mind that the horse world is small and word gets around fast. If you sue the BO, you're almost definitely looking at finding a new boarding facility, as most BO's don't want to keep on boarders that have sued them. And since gossip gets around as quickly as it does, you may be SOL in finding another barn that wants to take someone who sued for an injury that cannot be proven as being caused by negligence. It's not worth the risk.

No offense, but it's a consideration.

J Swan

Mar. 3, 2008, 03:13 PM

First, y'all are getting all sue happy.

Second, if anything, this is an insurance claim.

The OP would contact the Bo's insurer and file a claim. Based on what she's posted, the claim would be denied.

Then she'd have to find an atty. And I got 10$ that says any atty willing to take the case would want a retainer. Because unless there is evidence of reckless disregard for the safety of the animal, she doesn't have a prayer.

However, if the insurer decides to pay the OP a small sum just to make her go away, they may do that.

It's unlikely though.

I very much appreciate reading these threads, because I have a lovely 28 acre farm with riding ring, xc course, tack room with all the amenities, and lovely pasture, and I'm within minutes of many local foxhunts, as well as major show venues. And I could take in just a few boarders and take excellent care of them. And I wouldn't need to charge much at all.

And there is absolutely no way in hell I'd do it. Because of folks like a lot of you that would ruin me because your horse got spooked by a squirrel fart and got a boo boo.

So - thank you very much for saving me a great deal of hassle. And good luck finding good boarding facilities for a decent price. :)

dkcbr

Mar. 3, 2008, 04:10 PM

First, y'all are getting all sue happy.

Who is "y'all"? :confused: I think quite a respectable number of responses have NOT advocated sueing. :confused: :confused:

J Swan

Mar. 3, 2008, 04:15 PM

Who is "y'all"? :confused: I think quite a respectable number of responses have NOT advocated sueing. :confused: :confused:

That comment was obviously directed at the folks who advocated suing. If I had meant everybody, I would have written, "all y'all". :cool:

S1969

Mar. 3, 2008, 04:16 PM

In any event, he had emergency surgery at New Bolton Center, and the care, custody and control insurance paid for that, and his care after I removed him from NBC, the morning after surgery. He healed up just fine.

Is this your own care, custody & control insurance or the BO's? I agree that I see this as being an insurance claim, not a lawsuit....sort of like a car accident. You would only *sue* someone if insurance didn't cover your costs...and in that case, you may or may not win. Definitely a good reason to carry insurance on your own horses.

As for the comment about lawyers spending 3 years in lawschool to learn this stuff.....I'm just laughing because my dh said all he learned about in law school was how to study for the bar exam (and he had to pay extra for that). Not how to practice law at all. :winkgrin:

S1969

Mar. 3, 2008, 04:17 PM

That comment was obviously directed at the folks who advocated suing. If I had meant everybody, I would have written, "all y'all". :cool:

:lol::lol::lol:
I had never heard the term "all y'all" until relatives from FL visited this summer. But it has turned into one of my all-time favorite expressions. LOL!

Rancher

Mar. 3, 2008, 05:05 PM

:lol::lol::lol:
I had never heard the term "all y'all" until relatives from FL visited this summer. But it has turned into one of my all-time favorite expressions. LOL!

I hate to hijack a thread, but I once quit a job by yelling "Eff all y'all" and walking out. Yup! They deserved it and no I don't regret it. Not one of my most mature moments though.

I LOVE saying 'all y'all'.

candyo

Mar. 3, 2008, 07:55 PM

Hey OP here again, I want to thank all ya'll again for the wild array of opinions! Clearly my semi-flippant "lawyer up" remark rubbed some people the wrong way; I was really just talking about filing a claim. I'm not sure it warranted some of the nastiness, but whatever.

I agree that I probably don't have much of a chance, but I disagree that it was incumbent on me to inspect the field from stem to stern for safety hazards; that's why I'm paying $500/month for full care board. That said, I believe I'm more diligent than most in keeping up with safety issues. And I'm not a moron, I know perfectly well that horses injure themselves all the time and it's usually nobody's fault but their own dumb self. I've owned horses for the past 30 years and have never had occasion to even consider making such a claim against a boarding stable (both the stable and I are insured, thank you, and mine is maxed out by the bills).

The injury was not merely a spiral fracture, which I also agree would most likely result from simple goofing around in the field. The fracture was accompanied by a cut that went down to the fetlock joint, much more likely the result of putting a foot into a hole (I know, you can't find every hole in a field!), catching it on something sharp (rock, big root), and tearing the flesh while twisting the limb to get out.

All injuries which undeniably could result from just bad luck! But here's the thing, and I realize I probably don't have much of a case, but I was told the horse wouldn't be in that field, so hadn't checked it out. I was not consulted when she was originally turned out in this new field and she got some (superficial) injuries. The mistake I made was assuming that the business owner would do what I would do: inspect the field for hazards myself before putting my boarders' horses at risk. I trusted her to do this ( part of assuming responsibility for horses should include doing everything reasonable to make sure horses are safe), and I don't think it was unreasonable to do so. That's all I'm saying. I have a claim in to the insurance company; the adjuster told me it could go either way... I'll let you know what happens.

Bosspaige

Mar. 4, 2008, 08:42 AM

To the OP, if this woman is so negligent, then have you moved your horse????? I would imagine you would since you indicate she is irresponsible and you are willing to file a claim against her insurance, then why would you leave your horse in her care?

I board 2 horses at my barn and several weeks ago, my boarder’s young horse who has been sitting around all winter doing nothing, got racing around. I headed out to bring her in but as I was walking to the barn, she wheeled around, kicked at the fence and got her back leg over it and tore it to pieces. She ended up slipping in the mud, going down and part of the fencing cut her very deeply right below her hock. I take the best care of my horses that I can but am I to be held responsible for this because it was muddy? Horses get hurt, end of story. I wouldn't board my horse anywhere where the barn owner thought it was okay to turn any horse out in a field with all the junk you are describing. I know lots of people do it but and their horses are fine but that mentality isn't who I would choose to take care of my horse. I understand the large volume of vet bills you are going to incur but honestly, this is why people aren't boarding horses anymore, why riding lessons are so expensive, etc. Because people get sued and insurance premiums go up. I agree with a previous poster.....If you go forward with this, you better be prepared to move your horse but word spreads quickly and most BO wouldn't let you in their door after hearing this story.

ReeseTheBeast

Mar. 4, 2008, 08:49 AM

I hate to hijack a thread, but I once quit a job by yelling "Eff all y'all" and walking out. Yup! They deserved it and no I don't regret it. Not one of my most mature moments though.

I LOVE saying 'all y'all'.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That is AWESOME, Rancher!

BeastieSlave

Mar. 4, 2008, 10:03 AM

;) It looks like I might need to change my signature to include "all y'all"!! :lol:

J Swan

Mar. 4, 2008, 10:17 AM

I'm confused on something though. Is the yankee saying, "youse guys" the same thing as "all y'all"? Or is the same as "y'all". Did I even spell it correctly?

It's perplexing.

Trot Left

Mar. 4, 2008, 10:33 AM

I never seen a horse cry until the owner of such horse *tried* to fix her broken leg.... the mare went down to rest and could not get back up. I am sorry but if your horse has a true broken leg what kind of future life - let alone the recovery do you think your horse is going to have?

I would put the horse down if she was mine. I only say this because I saw a boarders mare go through it in pain and agony... just not fair if you ask me.

As far as looking to break the barn owner I say no - suing is not going to get you anywhere. What kind of boarding place are you boarding at anyway? I have never been to a place where their turn out has junk and rusty nails ... You board your horse their, you obviously know what kind of place it is so why now, when something happens your crying 'sue the owner'? Just my opinion. My main concern would be the horse.

BeastieSlave

Mar. 4, 2008, 10:59 AM

I'm confused on something though. Is the yankee saying, "youse guys" the same thing as "all y'all"? Or is the same as "y'all". Did I even spell it correctly?

It's perplexing.

Hmmm, do they have an "all youse guys"?

dkcbr

Mar. 4, 2008, 11:03 AM

"all y'all" - I remember that from going to school in North Carolina. :lol:

riverbell93

Mar. 4, 2008, 11:20 AM

As for the comment about lawyers spending 3 years in lawschool to learn this stuff.....I'm just laughing because my dh said all he learned about in law school was how to study for the bar exam (and he had to pay extra for that). Not how to practice law at all. :winkgrin:

Depends on how you go about it, I guess.;)

spirithorse22

Mar. 4, 2008, 11:59 AM

I'm sorry to sound snippy, especially in light of your horse having such a severe injury but the 'lawyering up' comment rubs me the wrong way. Why didn't you walk the field yourself after the first injury?? Have you tried talking to the owner of the boarding stable? If your horse stepped in a hole, why should they be responsible for it? I sometimes have had gopher holes in my pastures and have always been lucky (fingers crossed) but know there could be a day a horse gets seriously injured galloping around.

It would be a nice gesture if the barn owners offered to help with the vet bill but I'd also like to hear their side of the story.

Ditto. Not to sound witchy, but it was your responsibility to thoroughly check out the barn-the whole place, not just the stalls-and to research the owners/managers. I'm so sorry about your horse, I hope that her recovery goes as smoothly as possible.

Your title really rubbed me wrong, 'do I have a case'...sounds like you're going on a fishing expedition.

sirena_chaucer

Mar. 4, 2008, 12:14 PM

"all y'all" - I remember that from going to school in North Carolina. :lol:

:lol: We're here by way of West Virginia. My family: born and raised in the 'hollers' of West Virginny. You bet we say 'all y'all', 'y'all's', and all sorts of other combinations that seem completely and totally accurate to our ears. ;) 'Course, we also say 'plumb tired, put it in the poke, reckon, right tuckered out. My momaw still says 'warsh' the clothes and 'you-uns'." :lol:

Plus, my family 'aims to go to the store' where I might 'be wanting to get me some of that orange juice'. Whew. Its funny how you can slip in and out of that accent depending on the crowd you're hanging with...*cough* up in Bluefield or down in Daytona, you talk 'differnt'. :D

Rancher

Mar. 4, 2008, 12:39 PM

Actually the first time I heard 'all y'all' was in some type of gangster rap song. As in 'eff all y'all n word over and and over'. :rolleyes:

KaraAD

Mar. 4, 2008, 12:40 PM

I never seen a horse cry until the owner of such horse *tried* to fix her broken leg.... the mare went down to rest and could not get back up. I am sorry but if your horse has a true broken leg what kind of future life - let alone the recovery do you think your horse is going to have?

I would put the horse down if she was mine. I only say this because I saw a boarders mare go through it in pain and agony... just not fair if you ask me.

Not all fractures are the same. Sounds like your friend's poor horse had a displaced fracture. (And your description just about brought tears to my eyes.) When the OP refers to a spiral fracture - it is generally not displaced and the leg is generally weight baring - at least that is what I am assuming since the OP has only spoken about medical care not about having to put the mare down. Spiral fractures of this sort can and will heal well. The OP's mare will probably have to be stall bound for some time while it heals but the septic fetlock is probably even more of a concern to the OP at this point than the sprial fracture.

BeastieSlave

Mar. 4, 2008, 12:57 PM

:uhoh: Anybody know folks who say "you'uns"? You hear that fairly often down here.

katarine

Mar. 4, 2008, 01:35 PM

I have only heard you'uns around north central TN, west of Kingsport. I've spent some time in some pretty rural parts of the SE and you'uns was new to me ;)

I can't recall ever having said 'all y'all', ever. Y'all just covers it so well. All y'all is too much to say :winkgrin:

Auventera Two

Mar. 4, 2008, 01:59 PM

That comment was obviously directed at the folks who advocated suing. If I had meant everybody, I would have written, "all y'all". :cool:

Exactly! :lol:

I'm originally from the land of "diddy raise that winder down" ahem...Tennessee, though thank god in heaven I now live in the north......

Ya'll means you.

All ya'll means - all of you.

And now that I'm a Wisconsinite....

You's Guys means - all ya'll.

Back to the topic - I would suck it up as crap happens and move on. If you don't want to take chances on these kinds of things happening, buy a 4 wheeler and call it a day.

My horse suffered a severe tendon injury at a boarding barn laying her up for a really long time. She then developed heaves at a different boarding barn from the filthy dusty conditions and was on medication the rest of her life. And finally she died in a fire when another boarding barn burned to the ground. Crap happens. Nobody's fault particularly. It just sucks and that's the way it is. I now have my girls at home and crap could happen there too. You just never know. The nature of the sport, and the beast doesn't lend itself to smooth sailing for 30 years and then pass away peacefully in their sleep. I wish it did. There's bound to be bumps along the way and sometimes even tragedy.

BeastieSlave

Mar. 4, 2008, 02:10 PM

Shoot, 'my' horse suffered pretty severe knee injuries WHILE HE WAS ON STALL REST at a layup barn! Do you guys think I have a case?
Just kidding! I chalked it up to sh!t happens (fairly often with beasties) and over three months later he's getting back to work - he might even be able to jump again....

sirena_chaucer

Mar. 4, 2008, 02:11 PM

:uhoh: Anybody know folks who say "you'uns"? You hear that fairly often down here.

Yeah, didn't you see my previous post? My momaw said you'uns...its a mountain folk word, IMO...same as expressions like 'ain't taken a lick at a snake'...'full as a tick'...oh, the list goes on. lol ;):lol:

Auventura- Diddy done got the field done...hear that a LOT here. Didn't hear 'Diddy' in WV though, just 'Daddy'...even if you're fifty and he's ninety something. :winkgrin:

Auventera Two

Mar. 4, 2008, 02:13 PM

even if you're fifty and he's ninety something. :winkgrin:

Don't you mean...

fitty and nandy

:lol: I'm sorry. I'm just so glad I got the heck outta dodge while the gittin' was good. :lol:

yellow-horse

Mar. 4, 2008, 04:55 PM

since moving from nj to va, i have combined words and now say 'youse all'

back to op, crap happens, sometimes idiots happen, if there is evidence of negligence i say go ahead and see if you can get some of the bill paid
i have a very nice mare, when she was 4 and just getting started, the drunk husband of the bo decided he did not feel like putting all the horses in there assigend fields for turnout, my horse and 2 of her buddies were barefoot and on pasture board, the stalled horses all had borium on their feet. he turned everyone out together and then got in his car and drove away, he put 15 horses in a 4 acre pasture and left, when i got to the barn i found my horse in a heap on the ground in a pool of blood, her stifle was laid open, she had a fracture to the stifle and developed a bone infection, ended riding for her, cost quite a bit of money for 2 surgeries and countless joint injections, supplement etc, not to mention her pain, vet said it was a kick, obviously from a horse with something sharp on it's feet

anyway, they did wind up paying for some of it, not nearly enough, i liked my 1st plan which was whack in the knee caps with a rusty rake better than a small reimbursement for the initial injury, over the years this horse had another surgery and countless treatments for the resultant arthritis, alot of money in the long run

moribelle

Mar. 4, 2008, 08:45 PM

My horse just broke her leg out in the field! She has a spiral fracture of the cannon bone (as well as a septic fetlock from the cut she got), I'm wondering if I have a case against my boarding stable. They turned her out (she's a 15 YO TB mare) and she got scraped up in this particular (new) field. Owner of boarding operation then sent a kid out to the field to see what could have injured her.. nothing according to the (16 year old) kid. THEN owner turns out horse in the same field again (without my knowing), this time with disastrous results. Owner admits to never having walked the field herself. And my poor horse is looking down the barrel of 6 months in the stall, it's really sad.

I then checked it out (I wish to heaven I'd done this before, but I trusted the barn manager, sigh) and found numerous ways a horse could be seriously injured: rusty nails sticking out of boards, poor fencing in some areas (in one spot, no kidding there were two strands of barbed wire, that was it!), huge pile of junk in the back area of the field. I never did find the hole (I'm guessing that's how she got hurt), but that field never should have had horses in it!!! I believe this to be a case of gross negligence.

My question is, what do you think..should I lawyer up, or just let it go? I'll be out at least 6k by the end of all this, and I'm considering making a claim against my stable's liability insurance. I'm not sure how to go about it, or if I even have a case. What do you all think? Has anybody ever made a claim of this sort before; do I NEED a lawyer?
Thanks.
Candyo

Candyo,
1. Take pictures before they fix it up. Of your horse's injuries also. Before they heal. A picture is worth a thousand words in court, (if you go there). Otherwise the judge has NOTHING to hang his/her hat on. It will be your word against theirs, and you will not win.
2. Did you tell the owner not to put your horse out there again?
3. What does your contract say as to responsibility and liability , in other words, what did you agree to when you signed a contract to board there? Did you sign a contract?
4. Contact your local Court House (in the blue pages), and find out the upper limits on small claims.
5. You can file yourself, actually pull the form off the internet, fill it out, and take it down there to file, here it is about $32.00. THEN, you will have to have them served, I pay the police/sheriff dept. about $35-40.00. That will really make it hit home you mean business. You can have anyone do it though , maybe a friend.
6. Have you documented everything in writing yet? I'd suggest you do that pronto before anything slips your memory.
7. I wouldn't bother hiring an attorney. Unless you REALLY want to. I actually don't know what kind of attorney would handle this anyway. Do you have insurance on your horse?
ANother option might be to contact your insurance carrier and get their suggestions, ....

I'm a Legal Nurse Consultant among other things, I hope this helps. Where is your horse now?

8. Have you spoken again with the BO?

moribelle

Mar. 4, 2008, 08:50 PM

J Swan

Mar. 4, 2008, 09:10 PM

moribelle - you should probably stick with Legal Nurse Consulting. It's fairly obvious you are not a legal expert in standards of care in the equine industry.

Laurierace

Mar. 4, 2008, 09:13 PM

Candyo,
1. Take pictures before they fix it up. Of your horse's injuries also. Before they heal. A picture is worth a thousand words in court, (if you go there). Otherwise the judge has NOTHING to hang his/her hat on. It will be your word against theirs, and you will not win.
2. Did you tell the owner not to put your horse out there again?
3. What does your contract say as to responsibility and liability , in other words, what did you agree to when you signed a contract to board there? Did you sign a contract?
4. Contact your local Court House (in the blue pages), and find out the upper limits on small claims.
5. You can file yourself, actually pull the form off the internet, fill it out, and take it down there to file, here it is about $32.00. THEN, you will have to have them served, I pay the police/sheriff dept. about $35-40.00. That will really make it hit home you mean business. You can have anyone do it though , maybe a friend.
6. Have you documented everything in writing yet? I'd suggest you do that pronto before anything slips your memory.
7. I wouldn't bother hiring an attorney. Unless you REALLY want to. I actually don't know what kind of attorney would handle this anyway. Do you have insurance on your horse?
ANother option might be to contact your insurance carrier and get their suggestions, ....

I'm a Legal Nurse Consultant among other things, I hope this helps. Where is your horse now?

8. Have you spoken again with the BO?

9. Put horse in your living room as there won't be a barn within 1000 miles of you that will accept you as a boarder ever again.

NRB

Mar. 4, 2008, 09:23 PM

To the OP, I do take the side of crap happens. I am terribly sorry that your horse was injured. My own horse was injured when the bO and a new hired hand left the gates to his turn out open. Oh well, shit happens.

to the rest of you lot. this is from Robbie Johnsons' "Y'all Bonics" thread from 2003;

HEIDI - (noun) -Greeting.

HIRE YEW - Complete sentence. Remainder of
greeting.
Usage "Heidi, Hire yew?"

BARD - (verb) - Past tense of the infinitive
"to borrow."
Usage "My brother bard my pickup truck."

JAWJUH - (noun) - The state north of
Florida.
Capitol is Lanner.
Usage "My brother from Jawjuh bard my pickup
truck."

BAMMER - (noun) - The state west of Jawjuh.
Capitol is Berminhayum.
Usage "A tornader jes went through Bammer
an' left $20,000,000 in improvements."

MUNTS - (noun) - A calendar division.
Usage "My brother from Jawjuh bard my pickup
truck, and I ain't herd from him in munts."

THANK - (verb) - Cognitive process.
Usage "Ah thank ah'll have a bare."

BARE - (noun) - An alcoholic beverage made
of barley, hops, and yeast.
Usage "Ah thank ah'll have a bare."

IGNERT - (adjective) - Not smart. See
"Arkansas native."
Usage "Them bammer boys sure are ignert!"

RANCH - (noun) - A tool used for tight'nin'
bolts.
Usage "I thank I left my ranch in the back
of that pickup truck my brother from Jawjuh
bard a few munts ago."

ALL - (noun) - A petroleum-based lubricant.
Usage "I sure hope my brother from Jawjuh
puts all in my pickup truck."

FAR - (noun) - A conflagration.
Usage "If my brother from Jawjuh don't
change the all in my pickup truck, that
thing's gonna catch far."

TAR - (noun) - A rubber wheel.
Usage "Gee, I hope that brother of mine from
Jawjuh don't git a flat tar in my pickup truck."

TIRE - (noun) - A tall monument.
Usage "Lord willin' and the creek don't
rise, I sure do hope to see that Eiffel Tire
in Paris sometime."

RETARD - (verb) - To stop working.
Usage "My grampaw retard at age 65."

FAT - (noun), (verb) - a battle or combat;
to engage in battle or combat.
Usage "You younguns keep fat'n, n' ah'm
gonna whup y'uh."

RATS - (noun) - Entitled power or privilege.
Usage "We Southerners are willin' to fat for
are rats."

CHEER - (adverb) In this place.
Usage Just set that bare rat cheer.

FARN - (adjective) - Not domestic.
Usage "I cuddint unnerstand a wurd he
sed... must be from some farn country."

DID - (adjective) - Not alive.
Usage "He's did, Jim."

ARE - (noun) - A colorless, odorless gas
Oxygen.
Usage "He cain't breathe...give 'im some
ARE!"

BOB WAR - (noun) - A sharp, twisted cable.
Usage "Boy, stay away from that bob war
fence."

JEW HERE - (noun) and (verb) contraction.
Usage "Jew here that my brother from Jawjuh
got a job with that bob war fence cump'ny?"

HAZE - a contraction.
Usage "Is Bubba smart?" "Nah...haze ignert.
He ain't thanked but a minnit'n 'is laf."

SEED - (verb) - past tense of "to see".
VIEW - contraction (verb) and pronoun.
Usage "I ain't never seed New York
City...view?"

moribelle

Mar. 4, 2008, 09:25 PM

No, you don't have a case. You don't know what caused the injury.

And what makes you an expert on what she does and does not know? Were YOU there?

J Swan

Mar. 4, 2008, 09:25 PM

Bwwwwaahhahahahaha!!! I'd forgotten about that! Good old Robbie Johnson.

moribelle

Mar. 4, 2008, 09:33 PM

moribelle - you should probably stick with Legal Nurse Consulting. It's fairly obvious you are not a legal expert in standards of care in the equine industry.

And YOU are? Explain yourself. I gave her the facts, not fiction. There are certain ways to go about ANY legal action. I am correct in my advice, THAT is how the legal system works.
OBVIOUSLY YOU are not aware of ANY legal standards in ANY industry. Your statement is ludicrous and irrelevant !
YOU are obviously one of those people who board horses in a dangerous environment without aforethought. Give me a break. :no::no::no::no::no::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

lukas1987

Mar. 4, 2008, 09:34 PM

I hope your horse heals well. I lost Lukas last year to a spiral fracture. He was out in the pasture with his pasture mate who kicked him. He made it 3 weeks into stall rest, laid down to rest, and the leg shattered. I was really never given a good prognosis for a spiral fracture, so I'm wishing you much luck and hope you beat the odds.

J Swan

Mar. 4, 2008, 09:38 PM

moribelle

Mar. 4, 2008, 09:57 PM

9. Put horse in your living room as there won't be a barn within 1000 miles of you that will accept you as a boarder ever again.

Not everyone gossips from barn to barn except maybe where YOU are. [edit]

Laurierace

Mar. 4, 2008, 10:02 PM

This wouldn't be gossip, it would be fact if she did in fact sue her BO. [edit]

J Swan

Mar. 4, 2008, 10:02 PM

Moribelle - I'm no good at making up stories, so you must be talking about someone else. Plus, I've taken a gander at your posts and it seems you bandy the word "ignorant" about a wee bit too much to be taken seriously. Evidently, anyone who does not agree with you is ignorant. [edit]

As far as horse safety - LAZ's post was a reasonable standard of care for the average boarding barn. Honestly - you creep me out so you'd not be welcome on my farm. Anyone, attorney or layperson, who advises people to stop payment on a check or download legal forms off the internet should be avoided like the plague.

For the OP - I do hope your horse recovers fully.

aiken4horses

Mar. 4, 2008, 10:03 PM

So sorry about your horse getting injured. And yes, sh*t happens with horses no matter how careful you are. My mare came in one night with her eye lid hanging in front of her eye. We searched the paddock 3 times, ran our hands over every board (I insisted on screws on all the fencing as they don't "pop" the way nails do.) Never found a single thing she could have caught herself on. Vet said it definitely wasn't a bite from another horse.

One month ago my favorite horse, Otis, tripped in the pasture, summer-saulted and shattered his shoulder. One minute he was trotting around sound, next he was gone.

All this on my own property, in my own pastures, that I supervised the grading and fencing of. I can understand the feeling of anger, of wanting someone to Be Responsible! It must be Someone's fault! But horses are horses, if there's a needle in the hay stack - they'll find it.

moribelle

Mar. 4, 2008, 10:36 PM

Moribelle, [edit] As far as horse safety - LAZ's post was a reasonable standard of care for the average boarding barn. [edit]
For the OP - I do hope your horse recovers fully.

[edit]

As well, if LAZ's post is the typical standard in barn care, I'm scared. At my barn, if my horse farts too much I'm informed! There are higher standards out there, perhaps your experience and opinion is just what you're used to.
There's nothing wrong with telling people that, but it's certainly no reason to make everyone think "THAT STANDARD" is acceptable. It ISN'T.:no::no::no:

appaloosalady

Mar. 4, 2008, 11:05 PM

You've taken responsibility for only half the picture. I hope you have good insurance! I sure wouldn't board at YOUR facility knowing you don't check your fences and pastures. What an accident waiting to happen! What good does it do a horse to try and eat if his jaw is broken!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

What a dip!

Well, I was going to stay out of this one, but I just have to say that you have obviously never kept horses at home, and if you really think that your BO/BM checks every board/strand of wire/stall or shed everyday [edit]

LAZ

Mar. 4, 2008, 11:06 PM

You've taken responsibility for only half the picture. I hope you have good insurance! I sure wouldn't board at YOUR facility knowing you don't check your fences and pastures. What an accident waiting to happen! What good does it do a horse to try and eat if his jaw is broken!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
What a dip!

I've edited my response to you because I see that basically you're just being a pain.

Beverley

Mar. 5, 2008, 12:38 AM

Your advice is utter nonsense. Anyone who takes it will certainly be getting their money's worth!:cool:

Equilibrium

Mar. 5, 2008, 01:23 AM

To OP, I'm really hoping your mare gets better but I don't think you should be blaming anybody. These things happen. I had a 2 1/2 month old filly kill herself last year when she ran into a gate. I saw the whole thing and it was dumb luck. Short of putting padding all over the farm there was nothing I could do. This was on my property. Owning horses should teach you to expect the unexpected no matter what kind of field they are in. I have seen horses in paddocks with all sorts in them and horses never get hurt. Then I have seen the most pristine of farms with every saftey aspect you can imagine and horses still get hurt. Think long and hard about sueing someone as you may find yourself with no where to board your horse.

To Moribelle,
There are many experienced horse people on here your slamming. Don't actually understand why either. Many diffrent opinions on this board too. Lighten up a little.

Terri

HuntrJumpr

Mar. 5, 2008, 02:09 AM

To the OP: I don't know what papers you've signed, where you are at, or enough about law to really say much useful. I know that anytime I touch a horse on someone else's property I've signed a piece of paper saying I won't sue the BOs if I die, the horse dies, or a squirrel chokes on a nut... Exaggerating, but - everywhere I have been, its a pretty airtight contract saying I won't seek them out legally for compensation in a whole host of events.

Very sorry to hear about your horse, and I am hopeful that you have received the best possible prognosis from your vet and considered a University or specialist facility to ensure the best recovery.

To Moribelle: 1.] It's conscience...
2.] [edit] but I'll start small and simply request that you stop posting all the laughing smilies. They are going to give me a seizure or something (although you are a nurse, so...).

Kementari

Mar. 5, 2008, 02:46 AM

I'm confused on something though. Is the yankee saying, "youse guys" the same thing as "all y'all"? Or is the same as "y'all". Did I even spell it correctly?

It's perplexing.

"youse guys" = "y'all"

"all youse guys" = "all y'all"

:lol: (<-- See, one laughing face is PLENTY! :eek:)

It's also a common usage in Ireland - around Dublin and in the North - and other places the Irish have populated extensively, like Australia. :yes:

little miss

Mar. 5, 2008, 06:04 AM

9. Put horse in your living room as there won't be a barn within 1000 miles of you that will accept you as a boarder ever again.

This was what I wanted to write earlier too!! Good luck finding another place to keep your horse at now.

Moderator 1

Mar. 5, 2008, 10:34 AM

We've removed a number of y'all's posts and edited a few others for personal commentary. Though we understand the desire to disagree with, defend or clarify statements made, it can be achieved without insults, etc.

Thanks.

findeight

Mar. 5, 2008, 10:44 AM

Wow, this one got contentious in the late night hours...

Anyway, question for the OP-does this barn owner have specific "care, custody and control" written into the contract? Does she have that in her Equine business liability policies? Is your horse insured and is that what you have maxed out?

I would bet BO carries only a blanket liability policy on her business-if that. What I am saying is you will be bleeding the proverbial turnip on this one for injury to an animal in her care, not much money there and certainly not worth the legal fees even if she was directly responsible. Which is in doubt with no witnesses and an injury that likely had nothing to do with a hole or pile of junk.

Maybe you could consider small claims for 50% of the vet bill or something.

I wouldn't go there though. Horses are good at hurting themselves with no help at all. I don't see how you could prevail with no proof of how the horse was hurt and no witness unless you go the old it was on her property therefore she is responsible-and that is the last thing you should persue if you ever want a place to board an accident prone animal like the average horse.

Jumphigh83

Mar. 5, 2008, 12:19 PM

Use anything you make in small claims to build a barn...no one will take your horse at their barn since there are no guarantees! Stuff happens, horses get hurt and unfortunately there isn't always someone to blame. I would NEVER take a boarder like this at the farm.
PS I am sorry the horse got hurt. Aren't spiral fractures from torque? So she might have been running and hit some deep spot or spun away from a "friend" in play??

findeight

Mar. 5, 2008, 12:27 PM

Actually known of some spiral fractures vets thought had been there for awhile before they actually bothered the horse-knew one that was NQR for quite awhile, months to be exact, before it was detected with more sophisticated diagnostics. Speculation was it started small and grew over time.

There is no way of proving where, when or how this occured. Not worth persuing.

sketcher

Mar. 5, 2008, 01:09 PM

And YOU are? Explain yourself. I gave her the facts, not fiction. There are certain ways to go about ANY legal action. I am correct in my advice, THAT is how the legal system works.
OBVIOUSLY YOU are not aware of ANY legal standards in ANY industry. Your statement is ludicrous and irrelevant !
YOU are obviously one of those people who board horses in a dangerous environment
without aforethought. Give me a break. :no::no::no::no::no::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Ahhh, the blissfulness of ignorance and idealism. Honey,, what boat did you float in on?:l ol::l ol::l ol::l ol:

Actually butterfly, (or is it dragonfly?) the monitors of this website did that themselves. In an effort to be helpful because THEY feel it is a worthwhile subject to discuss. Oh my, yet another poor soul that is uninformed yet cannot get over her own rhetoric long enough to learn something constructive.: no::l ol:

Well said! After all, this isn't HOllyWOOD!! Geez guys, have a reality check!

So testy! The info. you gave me added up properly to what I came up with. But no matter, this isn't a contest.
As well, alot can change in 6mo. You should check it out.

The fact that you never confronted the BO about your horse still being tied at midnight, let alone with no access to food and water astounds me. This is animal cruelty. I blame you just as much as the barn owner for the horse suffering. The only way a horse should be tied overnight is if it IS a pack animal, and HAS been TRAINED in that manner.
I've heard it all now.
Actually, the BO isn't responsible for doing things her way, YOU are for not having the kahunas and responsibility as an animal owner to do something to change it IMMEDIATELY!
And who says the horses are dumb animals!

By the by, sugar diabetes is not caused by sugar. It's a pancreas thing honey.:lol :

My favorite:

Again Deltawave, (a $25.00 handle indeed!) my suggestion to you is to spend this time to educate yourself more thoroughly on the several subjects you have mentioned as your uninformed rhetoric confuses people who are genuinely trying to learn more about different subjects. I've posted in several areas, on different subjects, not just IRAP. EVERYONE has an opinion, some are just more 'informed" than others.

Educating oneself on any issue is usually akin to opening ones eyes to the truth. I know it can be a scary thing, but You should try it sometime instead of belittling those who have .

Calena, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Adequan doesn't prevent deterioration of the cartilage. Honey, where did you hear or read that?
Moribelle

You should read much more that is available to you, and to everyone who is interested .
Have a good evening.
Moribelle

Does being sorry I missed someone's post seem defensive to you? Curious.

Somewhere the point was missed regarding the question she asked. "Why should I wear gloves"?

There has been no misinformation given, and appropriate discussion was offered regarding her direct question. It is scientific fact that with prolonged use of Surpass ANEMIA is a side effect that is noted under "warnings and side effects", written by the pharmaceutical company that produces Surpass. Please take the time to read the insert, or perhaps you might like to peruse the internet for even more complete information. Also the action of Diclofenac Sodium is to lower the hormone levels that attribute themselves to the cause of action of arthritis. Just FYI.

I'd call another vet. seems yours is a bit confused. sorry. sherry

this sounds a little scammy to me, giving your horse an "unauthorized" injection, then saying: oh well, but maybe you should start him on them? BS.

My stupid vet ...

So much in so few posts.

arabhorse2

Mar. 5, 2008, 01:31 PM

Wow, either Alysheba's back, or it's her twin. :eek:

OP, I hope your horse recovers fully.

I've always been convinced that horses are out to commit suicide, and it's up to us to try and prevent it. ;)

Do you have a case? Most likely not. Even if you should win something through insurance or the courts, you'll probably find that you're not welcome at the other boarding facilities in your area.

I have my horses at home, and have put up all my own fencing. Danged if mine don't manage to scrape, puncture, or otherwise deface themselves on what I can only perceive is air! :mad:

Just Wondering

Mar. 5, 2008, 01:44 PM

(I insisted on screws on all the fencing as they don't "pop" the way nails do.)

Psst - they do!

Quinn

Mar. 5, 2008, 01:48 PM

Moribund or rather Moribelle, if nothing else you are entertaining.

To the Op, I really do hope your horse heals.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

moribelle

Mar. 5, 2008, 01:51 PM

Your advice is utter nonsense. Anyone who takes it will certainly be getting their money's worth!:cool: That's UDDER to you!

MistyBlue

Mar. 5, 2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beverley http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3053096#post3053096)
Your advice is utter nonsense. Anyone who takes it will certainly be getting their money's worth!:cool:

That's UDDER to you!

Erm, that insult might not have worked out as you were envisioning. The way Beverly's quote is worded and the way your reply is worded is stating that *you* are correcting Beverly, asking her to call you a bovine.
If you had planned to call Beverly a cow you should have said "*If* it were you, it would be udderly."
Your way is just insulting yourself.
If however, that was your aim all along, then by all means carry on.

May I ask why so attackative so often? :confused:

You may be winning the "most edited new poster" award soon...and that's not an easy title to win. It takes a lot of planned verbal abuse.

BuddyRoo

Mar. 5, 2008, 02:13 PM

Attackative! Snork!:lol:

I'm aghasted.

Anyway. Hugs to OP and her horse. It sucks.

You've gotten good advice (and hopefully some entertainment?) ....

While I can certainly understand your frustration and anger and any number of other feelings....if it were me, I would let this go. It's an unfortunate accident...but there's little in the OP that would lead me to believe this is neglect. IMHO, your energy would be best spent trying to care for your horse. You will need every ounce of it.

Best wishes.

TouchstoneAcres

Mar. 5, 2008, 03:19 PM

i'm very sorry your horse was hurt. I have no legal opinions! It is too hard to form an opinion on pasture conditions without being there. Being told that paddock was not in use does make me question the BOs responsibility. I do wonder however if you have your horse insured? It is helpful in accidents like this, when cause is unclear and you don't really want to rock the boat. More hindsight of course.

candyo

Mar. 5, 2008, 10:06 PM

Hey, OP here again,

Thanks everyone for all the good thoughts for my horse. So far she's doing very well. Here's what I did: contacted BO's liability insurance company and asked if there was any point in filing a claim; they said I might recoup some of my losses. The BO is aware of this (she actually suggested it) and has no hard feelings. Well maybe a few but she's not kicking us out. There is such a thing as making an honest (albeit dumb) mistake, and that's what this amounts to. Most mistakes don't lead to catastrophic injuries and thousands of dollars in vet bills though. So if the insurance (my equine major medical is what is maxed out btw) helps, great, if not, we'll be living a bit more frugally for the next year or so.

I feel incredibly blessed to have been able to spend the past four years with this amazing horse, and if all I get out of this is a pretty pasture ornament, so be it.

sweetwater

Mar. 5, 2008, 10:23 PM

Moribelle, with all due respect, you sound eager to show your superiority over everyone here. Please share with us why you feel so superior.

If you truly would like to educate people like you say, wouldn't you find a less aggressive approach would be better?

Laurierace

Mar. 5, 2008, 10:26 PM

OP, the majority of uproar over this thread could have been avoided if you had asked if you had a chance of collecting off of an insurance claim vs. Do I have a case, which implied suing your barn owner. I personally don't think you have a chance in either scenario but have no problem with you submitting a claim, especially with your barn owner's consent its worth a shot.
Best of luck, I hope he heals quickly.

blton9th

Mar. 5, 2008, 11:47 PM

I feel incredibly blessed to have been able to spend the past four years with this amazing horse, and if all I get out of this is a pretty pasture ornament, so be it.[/quote]

Your horse is lucky to have you! No legal advice, just lots of good wishes your boy makes a recovery.:)

J Swan

Mar. 6, 2008, 06:25 AM

gallupgirl

Mar. 6, 2008, 10:56 AM

I think you have a very patient barn owner. And just a question, if this happened to your horse in your own back yard (and things DO happen)......would you be calling the insurance company? Just asking.

Tory Relic

Mar. 6, 2008, 11:14 AM

This is the funniest post I've read all week!

Me, too! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Suffice it to say I'd leave my horse with JSwan anytime. She has her OWN property but doesn't take boarders. (Same as me.)

OP, I'm glad you've found a resolution to your situation. I hope your horse recovers quickly and cleanly. Best of luck.

Huntertwo

Mar. 6, 2008, 09:45 PM

This is the funniest post I've read all week!

Naw, this is.... Quote: And there is absolutely no way in hell I'd do it. Because of folks like a lot of you that would ruin me because your horse got spooked by a squirrel fart and got a boo boo.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

J Swan

Mar. 7, 2008, 09:13 AM

I do have my moments, don't I. Not many, though.

Just keep that in mind the next time I say something stupid and perhaps you will find it in your heart to take pity on me. :D

thumbsontop

Mar. 7, 2008, 09:36 AM

I'm glad to hear that things are moving forward OP! I hope your horse recovers well.

It's unfortunate that snarky posts get responses. Better to ignore. Some people use message boards to make themselves feel powerful rather than keeping it to answering the question posed on the thread... which sadly, ends up meaning that ALL of that poster's responses end up without credibility.

I suspect that boarders ought to really think about how they can help out barn owners these days rather than expecting more services. (Can't everyone take turns walking the fenceline once a week?) It's gotten so expensive for me it's just not worth it allow boarders anymore. Where does THAT leave everyone? Things aren't getting cheaper folks.

candyo

May. 5, 2008, 08:57 PM

OP here from this old thread. I just wanted to thank all the people who had good wishes for my horse, and let you know how she's doing. She's out of her cast, has a clean x-ray, and is starting hand-walking. AND the insurance co. decided, after surveying the field, that I did have a legitimate claim, they're paying the bills that my major medical didn't cover.

DickHertz

May. 5, 2008, 09:14 PM

I sometimes have had gopher holes in my pastures and have always been lucky (fingers crossed) but know there could be a day a horse gets seriously injured galloping around.

.

You do know that you can buy a smoke bomb that will kill them then you can fill in the holes, right?

You are nuts for putting horses out where the groundhog holes are.

trubandloki

May. 6, 2008, 08:31 AM

I am glad to hear your horse is doing well.

sidepasser

May. 6, 2008, 10:44 AM

Glad to hear the horse is doing well.

I'd leave my horse with J. Swann too..appears that she is level headed and a good horse owner.

However I have my own 32 acres for the equines to hunt a suicidal place to escape from the daily drudgery of eating hay and swatting flies..(haven't checked with the squirrel population to see if they are eating beans)..and every once in a while one of mine does sneak in an injury to see if I am paying attention.

I do have board fence, mixed with cattle panels and my barn is smooth concrete block walls with mats and still, I had a suspensory strain last year while watching my horse cavort in her field and take a misstep. A long nine months of rehab followed..sigh.

Reality - I used to board..had a full barn and a waiting list. I don't anymore. Too much money for insurance, too hard to get competent barn help (even paying more than the going rate and giving two days off a week). I believe at the time I was the only person boarding stallions in my county so when I closed, all boarder's had to find a new place to move to. Most ended up paying more for the same full board with less turnout.

Now I wouldn't do it considering the liability and the fact that one lawsuit could break me (even though I do have liablity ins. today on my place).

Got enough to worry about without worrying about someone's horse being a horse and getting hurt.

May. 6, 2008, 10:57 AM

No case.

Just Wondering

May. 6, 2008, 11:18 AM

yellow-horse

May. 6, 2008, 12:23 PM

OP, glad your horse is recovering, i quess the insurance co found some kind of evidence the bo did the wrong thing turning your horse out in that field, most times if you don't have a legit reason for a claim they don't just pay you anyway

candyo

May. 6, 2008, 08:06 PM

Good for you!

Curious - what did the BO have to say after the agent was out to inspect the property?

Thanks! BO hasn't said anything about it; although things aren't as comfortable out there since then (I haven't been able to move the horse due to the injury). She has actually been a pretty good sport about it; and I guess the positive side to all this is that all the big problems in the field have been fixed, so no other horse will have to go through this.

And again, for the people who think I'm being some kind of psycho prima donna pain in the butt horse owner;this was NOT a case of horse just being stupid, I get that, and heaven knows my horses have done that. I would NEVER blame the BO for the usual wear and tear that any horse, being a horse, will incur. I have owned horses for 30 years, and have not had a set of circumstances like this happen before. And hopefully won't again. :)