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View Full Version : WHat stallion would you love to have a foal by?



2Mares
Feb. 22, 2008, 03:01 PM
So I'm bored and need to waste some time, which leads to daydreaming. There are so many nice stallions out there, but which one do you dream of owning an offspring from for eventing of course? My top two choices are Formula One (http://www.tamarackhill.com/Stallions/F1.htm) and Olivier (http://www.imajica.net/oliviervideos.html). Both have beautiful movement (seen videos on both and could watch them move all day) and nice jumps. Personally, I favor a horse that would be winning after dressage (or be able to move up the levels of dressage :eek:). Also on my list are Reputed Testimony (http://www.tamarackhill.com/Stallions/reputed.htm) and Fred (http://www.afineromance.ca/afineromance.html), but unfortunately I haven't seen either move which is why neither is in the top two. Who do you dream of?

Sweet Thing Eventing
Feb. 22, 2008, 03:47 PM
I am breeding to Ramble On, the son of High Scope, next spring and I CAN"T wait!!!!

2Mares
Feb. 22, 2008, 03:51 PM
I know High Scope, but not Ramble On. Do you have a link for him?

melodiousaphony
Feb. 22, 2008, 04:07 PM
Salute the Truth (http://www.dodonfarm.com/willy1.html), which is in the works ::dance::.
I would also love to have a Formula One baby; having ridden a few of the ISHs and ITBs a few years back in Ireland, I'm a HUGE fan. Plus, well, have you SEEN that stallion?
If I thought he would compliment my little QH mare well, I'd go for it, but I was looking for a TB and something about Willy has always caught my attention. Gut feelings that linger for years seem worth acting on :)

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 22, 2008, 04:09 PM
Jaguar Mail. http://www.frenchstallions.org/french_stallion_detail.php?stallion=2007009

I'm waiting to see what the foal my maiden mare has this year looks like and may breed to him next in a couple of years. I'm also somewhat thinking of just buying a foal by him and importing it......but will probably wait. The $$ isn't the best for buying abroad and I really dont NEED another horse;)

There are sooooo many nice stallions out there...you need to pick the ones that you think will match your mare best...so day dreaming is cool...but I remember the mare is just as important as the stallion!

I breed to Royal Appearance for this first foal....I liked him and his pedigree...and of his few foals, the ones I saw were quite nice (one is at the ** level). He's conformation etc. looked like they would compliment my mare nicely. http://www.equine.vt.edu/stallions/royalappearance.html

I also like the look and pedigree of this guy too for my mare http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk/Future_Illusion1.htm



All the ones the OP lists are lovely as well.

QuillcoteFarm
Feb. 22, 2008, 04:12 PM
I have to say Ironman, as I already have one and will be breeding my mare to him this spring :D for another one. There is something to be said for an amazing temperment, not to mention they can jump the moon :eek:

ironmanonline.com

2Mares
Feb. 22, 2008, 04:25 PM
All lovely horses. I'm curious to see how Future Illusions progresses. I love his trot, but the canter on the lounge wasn't worth judging him on (don't think it gives an accurate picture since he seemed like he was being chased).

Of course the mare is a big part of the equation, but I posted it in such a way that those without a mare or those not intending to breed could play along. Luckily my choices are also nice matches for my mare.

melodiousaphony: I drool everytime I look at Farley's video.

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 22, 2008, 04:31 PM
I agree...of course my priority is on jumping and gallop. I like a good mover but will take a good jumper over them any day.

I also like that stallion that Denny posted awhile ago...Coolman. He looks pretty cool in all respects. I'd need to look closer at him to see if he matches with my mares. He looks like he has lovely movement and a fab. jump. He looks a little long in the back for my one mare...but that may also be the picture.

http://www.fermebeaulieufarm.com/id83.htm

imapepper
Feb. 22, 2008, 04:42 PM
Right now, I am loving Formula One. I also would like to have a Special Memories foal or maybe a Fuerst Gotthard foal. I also really like Triple Twist.

If I could have a fantasy baby, I would have Saratoga Six (he passed away a couple years ago) or a Zen baby (he passed away MANY years ago) or a Black Tie Affair baby (very expensive stud fee). There is also a TB stallion that I am not sure where he went that I would love to track down. His name is Touch Tone. He is by Pick Up The Phone out of a El Baba mare.

2mares: I have a friend that bred to AFR (Fred) and saw his video :eek: My goodness, that horse can jump. And he has a lovely trot. The mare my friend bred to AFR is an older style Holsteiner mare that is a fabulous jumper. The baby got his daddy's movement :) And hopefully both parents jump. Plus my friend said that Fred's owner was really great to work with.

2Mares
Feb. 22, 2008, 04:44 PM
Oh the jump on Coolman! He won't be knocking any rails with his hind. He looks a little long backed for me also. Lovely horse though.

I'm dreaming so I want it all! Jump & movement!

53
Feb. 22, 2008, 04:51 PM
My mare is in foal to Formula One and I'm really excited to see how the foal turns out. I'm not sure if I'll be breeding again right away, or waiting a year. But there are several that I have my eye on, most have been listed here already, its good to know what other eventers are looking at too!

WindyIsles
Feb. 22, 2008, 04:57 PM
Right now, I am loving Formula One. I also would like to have a Special Memories foal or maybe a Fuerst Gotthard foal. I also really like Triple Twist.

If I could have a fantasy baby, I would have Saratoga Six (he passed away a couple years ago) or a Zen baby (he passed away MANY years ago) or a Black Tie Affair baby (very expensive stud fee).

Our friend has a Black Tie Affair daughter in his broodmare band for racing. GORGEOUS mare I told him if she ever turns out to be a racetrack broodie dud that I am stealing her and using her for sport horses. :yes:

eqsiu
Feb. 22, 2008, 04:58 PM
I would love to have a Windfall foal, but he's too long through the back for my mare (she's like, oh, a mile long and would need improvement in frame that I don't think he would give). I really like Sandro Boy, but I'm not sure how great an eventer the foal would be. Sandro blood seems to make them a bit sensitive and high strung. I would prefer to stay with hanoverian approved stallions since I know how the registry works and all.

mademoiselle
Feb. 22, 2008, 04:58 PM
I would say the guy I showed last year in the YEH classes (He won 3 out of 4 of them), Tailored Fortune.

He is such a good boy. I have never seen a horse with a temperament like his. Just a good stunning guy. I was so proud when he got his picture in PH in January.
He is nice on the pictures, but really striking when you see him in flesh. Hopefully, he will follow the foot steps of his Sire who was HOY at Prelim' level and competed at the Advanced level, and then became HOY at the PSG level (all that was achieved in Australia).

So far, Taylor is showing a lot of talent. Keep an eye on him:yes:

http://www.petersonwarmbloods.com/taylor_.html

HuntrJumpr
Feb. 22, 2008, 05:03 PM
Babamist! Not obviously, going to happen, but I rode one of his daughter who I liked a lot. She had some soundness issues, but not due to breeding/conformation.

BigRuss1996
Feb. 22, 2008, 05:04 PM
Formula One !

2Mares
Feb. 22, 2008, 06:31 PM
Oh Mademoiselle I was drooling over him at Winona. Lovely, lovely boy and such a sweetie. I'll definitely keep my eye on how he progresses. Will he be at Winona this year?

53 I'm so jealous. You must post pics when you foal is born.

mademoiselle
Feb. 22, 2008, 06:43 PM
Yes,
Hopefully he will be at Winona. I'm currently almost 39 week pregnant and it just depends on how fast I can get back in the saddle.

Last time he was ridden was the 1st week of October ... He enjoyed his time off and he needed it (he is a WB) and even if we didn't show him very much, he enjoyed just being a horse.

So, the goal is to start him beginning of May and hopefully have him going and ready for Winona.

Thank you for the kind words. I'm very lucky that his owners are letting me ride him. He is awesome.

Stacie
Feb. 22, 2008, 07:02 PM
A few weeks back I posted on the breeding forum about recommendations eventing stallions and one of the stallions was this one
Alligator Fontaine
http://www.frenchstallions.org/french_stallion_detail.php?stallion=2007005

I'm a big temperament person and know nothing about his temperament, but the videos in that link left me drooling. He makes it all look eaaasssy. His balance, rhythm and movement is stunning. If he is known for good temperament, I think he could be my dream eventing stallion.

The foal I'm expecting this April is FEI dressage bred, but there is some serious jumpers there, too. So here's hoping....although he is going to be about 16.3H most likely.

elly
Feb. 22, 2008, 07:14 PM
Regulus - www.dreamtimefarm.com - producer of outstanding jumpers/eventers/dressage horses - have ridden a number of his offsprings and can't say enough good things about them - intelligent, athletic and lots of common sense !

Lori T
Feb. 22, 2008, 07:24 PM
I think right now our first choice for Imp is Formula One.

c_expresso
Feb. 22, 2008, 07:27 PM
Formula One

or

Carlow Clover

would love to have another Clover Hill horse but he's dead so...

mademoiselle
Feb. 22, 2008, 07:32 PM
A few weeks back I posted on the breeding forum about recommendations eventing stallions and one of the stallions was this one
Alligator Fontaine
http://www.frenchstallions.org/french_stallion_detail.php?stallion=2007005

I'm a big temperament person and know nothing about his temperament, but the videos in that link left me drooling. He makes it all look eaaasssy. His balance, rhythm and movement is stunning. If he is known for good temperament, I think he could be my dream eventing stallion.

The foal I'm expecting this April is FEI dressage bred, but there is some serious jumpers there, too. So here's hoping....although he is going to be about 16.3H most likely.

I wouldn't breed to him for an eventing horse. He is a very nice horse and has a great temperament, but in person he is pretty heavy particulary in the front.
I know him very well, I saw him a lot when I was in France and it's not the type of horse I would cross to get an eventer. He moves and is built like a hunter.

RunForIt
Feb. 22, 2008, 07:51 PM
Fine Romance and Formula One...thought I wouldn't ever have any more horses, but definitely enjoyed doing the "owner" thing at Poplar Place 2 weeks ago with Jennifer Joyce riding Talura. Debi crowley has a Fine Romance baby that I'm keeping my eye on...Witchy would make GORGEOUS eventing babies...! :D :cool:

Bravestrom
Feb. 22, 2008, 07:52 PM
I would love to have a foal from consul

TB eventergirl101
Feb. 22, 2008, 08:16 PM
I saw Formula One go at the Equine Affair. Wow what a horse@!!!!!:D He was soooo well behaved in a crowded arena:. My old event mare is going to be bred to him and I am so excited:D:winkgrin::lol::D:winkgrin::lol:

BigRuss1996
Feb. 22, 2008, 08:45 PM
Okay ...so anyone breeding to Formula One....if you want to sell your foal please contact me!! I have been trying to find one since he started breeding.....apparently no one parts with their foal! I don't have a mare to breed right now or I would breed my own. I want one out of a really nice TB mare...and I am willing to pay!! ....but I have to like the mares bloodlines (only downside) : )

edited to add...... I only want a colt (well gelding actually)...

One Star
Feb. 22, 2008, 09:18 PM
He has produced some gorgeous, sane, successful event horses like Tiamo, A First Romance, My Romance, and Romancing.

First, I need to get a nice mare... :D

SBClancy
Feb. 22, 2008, 10:28 PM
Formula One would be my first choice and then Snowford Bellman RID - who is the daddy of my guy. I've only seen videos of both and I think Formula One looks fantastic. A foal with the right mare will be hard to beat. As for Snowford Bellman I guess I'm just prejudiced. The talent and personality that my guy has I think is a testament to what a great stallion Snowford Bellman is. And I've talked with others who have a baby by Snowford Bellman and they all say the same thing about their horses.

bosox
Feb. 22, 2008, 11:21 PM
but this boy is so lovely

http://www.goldenventurefarm.com/

and---I AM NOT A FAN of paints...but this guy to me is just stunning.

Dr. Doolittle
Feb. 23, 2008, 12:19 AM
but this boy is so lovely

http://www.goldenventurefarm.com/

and---I AM NOT A FAN of paints...but this guy to me is just stunning.

Just for clarification, he's a pinto, not a paint ;)

(And what a jump on that boy! :))

Blugal
Feb. 23, 2008, 12:37 AM
If I had a mare, and money, and property... Factors for me include:

-if you want a horse just like the stallion, breed to its sire
-at least 5/8, preferably more, TB
-prefer the rest to be non-standard warmblood (I like ID, Connemara, French Anglo-Arab, Selle Francais)
-must have a great jump (my safety's at stake, after all!)
-want a good temperament, a little hot is OK but stupid isn't
-looks not as important, but would prefer a bay
-not as concerned about movement

Jumbo (http://www.stallionai.com/pages/templates/pages.asp?articleid=24&zoneid=7) (British ID x) - mostly due to his proven offspring; or to his son Jigilo II (http://www.grafhamstud.co.uk/jigilo.php), who is more than 1/2 TB and events to Advanced. There was a feature on Jumbo in the 7 Feb. Horse & Hound.

Would also consider Consul (http://www.ironspringfarm.com/horses/profile_stats.php?unid=803&sidenav=profile) (Iron Spring Farm), because I think Judgement, his son, has a total eventer's stamp, and has a terrific show record.

I also drool over the gorgeous TB stallions in the H&H, especially when they have features showing their offspring jumping (e.g. steeplechasers). But the stud fees can be pricey.

And I aways keep my eye out for top SJ stallions with high % TB, e.g. Alligator Fontaine (http://www.internationalcompetitionstallions.com/stallions/alligator_fontaine.htm). He is a Selle Francais, over 50% TB, who has a nice ad in H&H, won the Hickstead Derby, has offspring who've won World Cups.

JER
Feb. 23, 2008, 12:56 AM
Like the OP, I also love Olivier. His owner says he's really brave, I think he'd make nice eventers. He makes everything look easy in his videos.

If we're talking hypotheticals...

Dynaformer, a son of Roberto, produces horses that can run (Barbaro, Perfect Drift) and jump (McDynamo). Unfortunately, they run a little too well, resulting in a stud fee of $150,000.

Cozzene (http://www.gainesway.com/stallions/listOfStallions/cozzene/default.asp) is a son of Caro. A tough turf horse who won the Breeders' Cup Mile, he's 28, still standing and his stud fee is 'private treaty'. We all know what that means.

Alphabet Soup (http://www.adenastallions.com/stallions/stallion.aspx?id=Alphabet_Soup), BC Classic-winning (he beat Cigar) son of Cozzene, is a relative bargain at $10,000. This horse was really versatile on the track and has the typical Caro line look.

Arch (http://www.claibornefarm.com/stallions/arch-pedigree.shtml) is a gorgeous, powerful horse by Kris S., another son of Roberto. The video isn't up now but he's quite a mover. His stud fee was $5K a few years ago (I hoped he'd become sporthorse-affordable) but his youngsters are winning and selling so he's at $25K.

I'd also love to breed any of my mares to Welton Crackerjack (http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk/Future_Crackerjack.htm) or Rock King (http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk/Future_RockKing.htm). I saw both of these stallions while they were still alive and they were really special.

I have a young mare by Catherston Dazzler (http://www.emcostallionservices.com/stallions/dazzlermorephotos.html), another one of my very favorites and I also have a 2 year-old filly by Heroicity (http://www.pedigreequery.com/heroicity).

There's also Yarlands Summersong (http://www.chateauderussas.com/fr/index.php?page=summer), one of the most beautiful and athletic horses ever in eventing. He's by Fleetwater Opposition and out of the same mare as Catherston Dazzler. He stands in France at stunning chateau and I've heard his semen doesn't ship well.

deltawave
Feb. 23, 2008, 08:50 AM
WHat stallion would you love to have a foal by?

Dear me, I'm all done having babies. One 9-and-a-half pounder was PLENTY for me! ;) ;)

I haven't really done any serious "looking" for quite a long time, so my list is short and very similar to what others have:

A Fine Romance (boy, did we TRY to get Gwennie in foal to him!) :sadsmile:

Formula One (yummy, yummy, I think he'd be a great match for Bonnie . . .)

Marjory's (mademoiselle's) Tailored Fortune is a KNOCKOUT horse. Jaw-droppingly gorgeous and a big puppy dog.

I've always thought Catherston Dazzler was about the most ideal stamp of an event horse you could ask for. I hear his babies are not necessarily "easy", though, and temperament trumps just about everything else for me.

Daisey-Bogie
Feb. 23, 2008, 09:04 AM
Here is the link to the farm that Ramble On stands at. He is currently in Florida training with his owner Kristen Villeneuve. He is doing great for his first season and she is expecting her first crop of foals by him this spring. check back to the farm website in a couple of months for some cute babies. I am hoping for a grey baby in the group like High Scope.
http://www.highpointhorses.com/index.html

flyingchange
Feb. 23, 2008, 02:40 PM
Happy Ending, RID
Touch of the Blues, RID. But you can't breed outside mares to him anymore (I don't think).

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 23, 2008, 07:20 PM
but this boy is so lovely

http://www.goldenventurefarm.com/

and---I AM NOT A FAN of paints...but this guy to me is just stunning.


I've seen him at events...he is lovely and seems to have a very good mind and attitude.

ETA: If I'm thinking of the right horse (and I think I am), he was being evented by a YR.

bosox
Feb. 24, 2008, 09:52 AM
ETA: If I'm thinking of the right horse (and I think I am), he was being evented by a YR.

Yes---he was. I thought it was a great match but this year he has a new rider. :no:

StrawberryFields
Feb. 24, 2008, 11:02 AM
hands down it would be Salute the Truth!

I love that stallion-

or I would like to have one by The Baptamist :rolleyes:

Xctrygirl
Feb. 24, 2008, 11:06 AM
Sarah,

did you mean to say "Babamist???"

B/c if so he's been dead for a while.

I am unaware of any stallion with the name "The Baptamist"

And I did look.


~Emily

mbj
Feb. 24, 2008, 11:19 AM
Well, I am selling, not breeding, as my rider is entering vet school this Fall, but ....

I have A Fine Romance coming 3 year old we bought as a yearling and love-- big, beautiful, sensible, kind, great canter and light on his feet for a moose of a baby.

Also have a Consul yearling (out of our tb mare) who we really like, but who can tell at that age? Very nice to work around, very good mover, pretty, good size,leggy and just the right amount of bone. A Consul x TB gives somewhere around 65% tb blood I believe.

Also have a really nice full tb by Harry the Hat. Looks like a warmblood and bold and catty with a great jump and movement.

So I would have to say I can recommend all 3 of these sires.

I also would love to have a youngster by
:
TB's:
Alphabet Soup
Black Tie Affair
Dynaformer
Slew City Slew
Skip Away
Real Quiet (but check the knees)
Reputed Testimony (loved his dad!)
Brogan
Salute the Truth

Warmblood or Irish:
Formula One
Fuerst Gotthard
Mighty Magic (need to check temperament-- I have no info on)

mbj
Feb. 24, 2008, 11:27 AM
By the way,for those interested in having a Consul baby, while he is getting up there in age, his semen is GREAT quality, and Iron Spring Farm will give discounts to Pony Clubbers, etc., so his fee can be very reasonable.

For those wanting an A Fine Romance baby, I believe both Tamarack Lane Farm and Cadogan Farm have some on the way or on the ground.

Oakmont Sporthorses
Feb. 24, 2008, 12:14 PM
I've always thought Catherston Dazzler was about the most ideal stamp of an event horse you could ask for. I hear his babies are not necessarily "easy", though, and temperament trumps just about everything else for me.


This stallion has really gotten an unfair rap in this department. I have a rising 4-yr-old Dazzler filly who is so sweet and quiet that she's probably going to sell into the hunter rings as a junior/amateur horse. I'm sure I could probably jazz her up for eventing, but since I do hunters now, it is just going to be easier for me to produce and sell her there. I think a lot of his reputation here is because one of the best known of his US horses was very difficult...of course, people never think about the mare, the environment, etc... They are very smart, and perhaps in the wrong hands could be smarter than the owner ;), which could cause problems, obviously, but they are certainly not difficult either.

GotSpots
Feb. 24, 2008, 12:22 PM
Hmm, depends on whether I'm cooking one for me or for our pro. For the latter, if I had a really nice fairly light mare, I would send her back to Phyllis' stallion (Brandenburg's Windstar) in a heartbeat - out of a lighter mare, the babies I've seen from that stallion are phenomenal. The ones I've seen have been slightly more of a professional's ride, though I do know of one lovely grey mare who an amateur in Area II has done quite well with. I would also breed again to AFR for either our pro or for me - the three Fred youngsters we have in the barn have had very good, consistent temperaments and great movement. If I had a mare with a bit more bone, I might look to Reputed Testamony - I've always admired that horse's apparent soundness and athleticism.

Alot of it would depend on the mare I had - there are some fantastic stallions in England I would love to breed to if I had the right mare, but it would depend on the matching. Awfully hard to decide in a vacuum!

grayarabpony
Feb. 24, 2008, 04:12 PM
I wouldn't breed to him for an eventing horse. He is a very nice horse and has a great temperament, but in person he is pretty heavy particulary in the front.
I know him very well, I saw him a lot when I was in France and it's not the type of horse I would cross to get an eventer. He moves and is built like a hunter.

Huh? :confused:

kookicat
Feb. 24, 2008, 04:31 PM
I really like the look of this boy

http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk/Future_illusion1.htm

Who else?

- Jumbo http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk/Future_Jumbo.htm Love, love him :)
- One of the Welton horses (http://www.weltonhorses.co.uk/welton_adonis.htm he would be my pick right now, based on the mares I have)
-http://www.catherstonstud.net/catherston_dazzler.htm :)

I've heard the the Catherston horses usually have very good temprements and the Welton horses can be a little sharper and more of a 'pro ride.'

LAZ
Feb. 24, 2008, 04:33 PM
I'm breeding my mare to Jumbo this year--I would love to breed to his son Jigilo, but at least of 2007 they didn't have frozen.

Keep your fingers crossed that she takes!

kookicat
Feb. 24, 2008, 04:42 PM
I'm breeding my mare to Jumbo this year--I would love to breed to his son Jigilo, but at least of 2007 they didn't have frozen.

Keep your fingers crossed that she takes!

Fingers firmly crossed here. :)

I'm very tempted to breed my retired intermediate mare to him. Very tempted. :winkgrin: He's a real old gent.

mademoiselle
Feb. 24, 2008, 06:37 PM
Huh? :confused:
Did I say anything wrong ?

Horselvr5
Feb. 24, 2008, 07:01 PM
Theodore O'Connor all the way! I love that, uh, pony? horse? superequine? :)

Or Windfall II (ridden by Darren Chiachia).

grayarabpony
Feb. 24, 2008, 07:09 PM
It's just that .... :lol: .... he doesn't canter and jump like a hunter. At all. And he's very agile over the jumps on the 2 videos that I watched. So your post doesn't make any sense to me.

pwynnnorman
Feb. 24, 2008, 07:38 PM
Jus de Pomme
Summersong
Cavalier Royale (if I'm spelling that correctly)
Jumbo (cuz I love me some Hedley Britannia!)

eks
Feb. 24, 2008, 07:41 PM
His Highness, Rosario or Fabriano

grayarabpony
Feb. 24, 2008, 07:43 PM
Jus de Pomme is dead. He died shortly after winning Olympic Gold.

pwynnnorman
Feb. 24, 2008, 07:43 PM
Jus de Pomme is dead. He died shortly after winning Olympic Gold.

Exactly.

Dr. Doolittle
Feb. 24, 2008, 07:44 PM
It's just that .... :lol: .... he doesn't canter and jump like a hunter. At all. And he's very agile over the jumps on the 2 videos that I watched. So your post doesn't make any sense to me.


I must agree with this; I was *extremely* impressed by the way this horse handled himself O/F; he was very athletic and sharp with his front end--over ENORMOUS and daunting fences--as well as undulating terrain! :yes:

I too thought he was quite the "agile athlete", so was a bit puzzled by the "more suitable for hunters" comment...I don't think hunters are expected to do anything *remotely* as challenging as what this horse does (and certainly not "at speed")--though he did seem pretty "rideable"; in MY book (and considering that I'm looking for stallions to breed my somewhat "reactionary and Drama-Queenish" mare to a few years down the road) this is a GOOD quality in a "potential future husband"! ;)

As for him being "heavy in the front end", yes, he is subtantial, but I don't see the heaviness (he wouldn't be able to be as clever as he is with his front end, if this were the case--JMO...)

I guess if you were breeding Draft X mares, this may be an issue. However, I think most eventers are breeding ligher mares, either TBs or TB/WBlood crosses (which is what my mare is), so they will be looking for substance, athleticism, a good brain, plus the all-important movement and jumping ability (this is what I'm looking for in a stallion, and luckily there seem to be *many* lovely horses to choose from these days! :D)

retreadeventer
Feb. 24, 2008, 07:52 PM
Happy Ending, RID
Touch of the Blues, RID. But you can't breed outside mares to him anymore (I don't think).


Ooohhh oohhh but I have a coming 3yo Touch of the Blues RID registered filly coming to train and get ready for YEH, and she will also be for sale. I can't wait to see how she is up close, her pictures from owner are stunning.

eventrider
Feb. 24, 2008, 07:55 PM
Horselvr,

Theodore O'Connor is a gelding...not sure if you mean that you would want to breed a pony like him? He does have two full siblings that are stallions though.

Christan

retreadeventer
Feb. 24, 2008, 07:59 PM
Sorry to post twice, but in the same vein as this thread title...Area II is going to have an EVENT STALLION SERVICE AUCTION and the list of stallions will be posted at the Area II website later this week... will benefit Young Riders....many of the mentioned stallions on this thread are participating along with some highly desirable others....sorry to hijack but if you are considering breeding please do not miss some of the great bargains we'll have available. www.usea2.net -- not up yet -- please check later in the week.

mademoiselle
Feb. 24, 2008, 08:15 PM
It's just that .... :lol: .... he doesn't canter and jump like a hunter. At all. And he's very agile over the jumps on the 2 videos that I watched. So your post doesn't make any sense to me.

Well, maybe I'm wrong ... I know his breeders, I know the trainer who broke him and started him and I have seen him at about 20 or 25 shows (with an average of 3 or 4 classes per show). He has a more Horizontal natural balance than what I would be seeking for an eventer. He has been ridden by some very good riders that got the best out of him, but I think that it's not the horse I would use personally.

I never said he was bad. If i was breeding for a hunter or a jumper he would be on top of my list.

And for the record, I don't know of any top level eventer that are by him in France, so if he was producing eventing horses it would be a known fact by now. Eventing breeders are not using him, so I guess I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

I haven't seen the videos, I'm never said that he was a bad jumper. But with the right training we would have made an awesome hunter, believe me. We just don't show hunters in France.

grayarabpony
Feb. 24, 2008, 08:34 PM
That still doesn't make any sense -- eventers don't need to be less off the forehand than jumpers. And if he doesn't have many eventing babies out there, it's probably because he's breeding jumpers. You're saying he'd make a better hunter than jumper -- oh brother.... :lol:

grayarabpony
Feb. 24, 2008, 08:37 PM
Exactly.


But Jus de Pomme doesn't have any frozen left. :confused:

mademoiselle
Feb. 24, 2008, 08:52 PM
Well, let's say that you have a horse with a more horizontal natural balance (aka hunter), it doesn't means that he is on his forehand. This horse is not in anyway built downhill. He doesn't carry himself in a natural self carriage.

If you have a CAREFUL horse with a lot of power and a lot of scope, and you match him with with some of the best riders in the world, chances are that with good training he will be succesful in the jumper ring. Alligator was a very good speed horse, but never had the extra little thing to make it in the top GP (World Cup, Olympics ...). He was 'just' a speed horse.
So while he was very successful, and has a show record long like my arm, his balance didn't allow him to be in the team and 1st horse.

In my opinion you can package a horse together if you need to during a course and the tight turns can help to keep him more uphill. Where on the XC you would rather have a horse with a very uphill balance because the fatigue and the type of efforts have a tendency to make the horse got flatter. So, it's better to start with a more uphill self carriage.

He is a very good stallion, he has proven himself in the jumper ring and as the sire of wonderful jumpers. But so far, he hasn't had any sucess as an eventer sire. And trust me, French eventing breeders use jumper stallions when they need it. They are a couple of GP jumpers that have been used a lot by eventing breeders with a lot of success. Alligator is not one of them.

Blugal
Feb. 24, 2008, 10:28 PM
Mademoiselle, thanks for the informative explanation.

grayarabpony
Feb. 24, 2008, 11:10 PM
It looks to me as though his scope might have kept him from being a top GP horse, not his balance. A horse couldn't be a good speed horse without good balance.

mademoiselle
Feb. 25, 2008, 12:18 AM
It looks to me as though his scope might have kept him from being a top GP horse, not his balance. A horse couldn't be a good speed horse without good balance.

I don't want to feel that I have to justify anything, because I actually like the horse.
I'm just stunned that somebody who has seen 2 videos of a horse would argue with somebody else who has seen the horse in person (warm ups, everyday work), and who knows the horse since he was 5YO before he got all the training, and has talked to his riders on regular basis.

As I said earlier, I think French eventing breeders have a done a pretty good job at producing good horses over the past decades (Galan Sauvagere, Espoir de la Mare, ...). Knowing that Alligator was born in 1988 and his 1st crop of babies is now 13 YO, I think we would know if he was top notch eventing sire.
He has had a couple of babies that went Prelim' in the past 9 years but nothing spectacular as far as eventing goes. There is a list that is published each year based on all the horses that compete by discipline in France and he is out of the Top 350 (yes, they are 350 stallions that have been better producers) as far as eventing goes. It's based on performance of the offspring. For me that would be a big red flag!

In the jumpers, He has had a couple of nice babies that went all the way to the GP level.

If you want I can give you a list of French stallions that have produced UL eventers on regular basis ... Alligator is not one of them.

Blugal
Feb. 25, 2008, 12:29 AM
I would be very interested in that list, mademoiselle. Can you send me a PM if you don't post it here?

Joan from Flatlands
Feb. 25, 2008, 06:51 AM
I cant say enough good about Reputed Testamony! We have had 5 of his offspring out of 5 very different mares and they were all quality horseflesh - all just a touch bigger than mom - better movers w overall more quality to all 3 gaits. The biggest plus is their million dollar brains including the filly out of the very hot quick mare. We do have one w bit of a twitch but her mother was close to unridable at times so her daughter is a significent improvement mentally. We are holding onto the last two - one is the favorite of our barn manager and I think she would leave if we sold him! He finished in 6 of his 9 events last season at Novice and won in a very competitive division at GMHA. The other filly is the stuff dreams are made of! We are taking it slow w her as she looks like she has the movement, bravery and scope to go to the top of the sport.

I really need to get some current pix of them but somewhere in the sporthorse breeding section there are pix of them all.

Joan from Flatlands

yellowbritches
Feb. 25, 2008, 07:19 AM
One of our clients is breeding a fantastic little Hol/TB cross mare to Catherston Dazzler this spring, which has me on cloud nine! When the mare went home a few years ago to supposedly be her owner's hunt horse (I think she may have actually ridden her a whopping 5 times :(), we were concerned the mare would just go to waste or breed to a less than desirable stallion. But the owner picked a good one and I am SO excited!!!! Should make for a very, very nice baby. :yes:


Hmm, depends on whether I'm cooking one for me or for our pro. For the latter, if I had a really nice fairly light mare, I would send her back to Phyllis' stallion (Brandenburg's Windstar) in a heartbeat - out of a lighter mare, the babies I've seen from that stallion are phenomenal. The ones I've seen have been slightly more of a professional's ride, though I do know of one lovely grey mare who an amateur in Area II has done quite well with. I would also breed again to AFR for either our pro or for me - the three Fred youngsters we have in the barn have had very good, consistent temperaments and great movement. If I had a mare with a bit more bone, I might look to Reputed Testamony - I've always admired that horse's apparent soundness and athleticism.

Alot of it would depend on the mare I had - there are some fantastic stallions in England I would love to breed to if I had the right mare, but it would depend on the matching. Awfully hard to decide in a vacuum!

GotSpots, I'm glad you said all that about Windstar. He is very, very high on our list for little mare when she is eventually bred. She is very light, so we want something with a good bit of substance but athletic (of course, as athletic as she is, we could probably breed her to a plow horse and still get a jumping machine :lol:). I love the look of him, and I have been nothing but impressed by his babies (including the amateur's mare you referred to!).

Also on little mare's "dance card" is Formula One. And I'm pretty sure anything in England (like Dazzler or Jumbo) would also make quite a nice combination.

I like A Fine Romance and am always impressed with his babies...I wonder how he would cross with little mare?

grayarabpony
Feb. 25, 2008, 08:53 AM
I don't want to feel that I have to justify anything, because I actually like the horse.
I'm just stunned that somebody who has seen 2 videos of a horse would argue with somebody else who has seen the horse in person (warm ups, everyday work), and who knows the horse since he was 5YO before he got all the training, and has talked to his riders on regular basis.

As I said earlier, I think French eventing breeders have a done a pretty good job at producing good horses over the past decades (Galan Sauvagere, Espoir de la Mare, ...). Knowing that Alligator was born in 1988 and his 1st crop of babies is now 13 YO, I think we would know if he was top notch eventing sire.
He has had a couple of babies that went Prelim' in the past 9 years but nothing spectacular as far as eventing goes. There is a list that is published each year based on all the horses that compete by discipline in France and he is out of the Top 350 (yes, they are 350 stallions that have been better producers) as far as eventing goes. It's based on performance of the offspring. For me that would be a big red flag!

In the jumpers, He has had a couple of nice babies that went all the way to the GP level.

If you want I can give you a list of French stallions that have produced UL eventers on regular basis ... Alligator is not one of them.

Well, sorry you're stunned. The french are not world beaters at producing eventers, anyway, but they are at producing jumpers. Alligator could make a very nice cross with a TB that has a lot of scope -- in fact that could produce a top horse.

Edited to add: Although now that the French have Summersong, that may change.

flyingchange
Feb. 25, 2008, 09:08 AM
Ooohhh oohhh but I have a coming 3yo Touch of the Blues RID registered filly coming to train and get ready for YEH, and she will also be for sale. I can't wait to see how she is up close, her pictures from owner are stunning.

Oh wow. I hope you post pix of her. He is SUCH a nice horse in every way.

mademoiselle
Feb. 25, 2008, 09:29 AM
Well, sorry you're stunned. The french are not world beaters at producing eventers, anyway, but they are at producing jumpers. Alligator could make a very nice cross with a TB that has a lot of scope -- in fact that could produce a top horse.

Edited to add: Although now that the French have Summersong, that may change.

Well we must not look at the same data :
www.wbfsh.org/html/ranking/2007/c_breed_0702.pdf (http://www.wbfsh.org/html/ranking/2007/c_breed_0702.pdf)

And even if I agree that French are more known to breed jumpers, they have still bred horses good enough to give them the team gold medal at the Olympics in 2004, the individual gold medal at the European Championship in 2007 and 2003, the gold medal individually in eventing at the WEG in 2002, and I could go on ! Maybe be not as popular as English or NZ horses, but if you just talk about results, they are not doing too bad;) ...

There is a life after Summersong he was retired 6 years ago, and we survived :D

And watch out, I know a couple of very nice yougsters coming along that are going to confirm that French eventing horses are pretty good:yes:

ThreeDays
Feb. 25, 2008, 09:35 AM
I'll have to stick with Cicera's Icewater! He's competes under the O'Connor's and has fantastic movement and jumping ability.

We have a 3yr old filly by him who was shown in-hand as a yearling at the USDF shows. She won several classes, placed in the championships and was invited to the breeders championship at dressage at devon.

Icewater produces super athletic foals who are very 'game'.

We have a jumper TB mare in foal to him for a foal due this spring :D

icewater foals:

cicily
Feb. 25, 2008, 09:40 AM
Well we must not look at the same data :
www.wbfsh.org/html/ranking/2007/c_breed_0702.pdf (http://www.wbfsh.org/html/ranking/2007/c_breed_0702.pdf)

And even if I agree that French are more known to breed jumpers, they have still bred horses good enough to give them the team gold medal at the Olympics in 2004, the individual gold medal at the European Championship in 2007 and 2003, the gold medal individually in eventing at the WEG in 2002, and I could go on ! Maybe be not as popular as English or NZ horses, but if you just talk about results, they are not doing too bad;) ...

There is a life after Summersong he was retired 6 years ago, and we survived :D

And watch out, I know a couple of very nice yougsters coming along that are going to confirm that French eventing horses are pretty good:yes:

It's true, the French eventers have overall not been as successful as those from NZ, England, or especially Ireland. The 2004 Olympic event was regarded by most as a bit of a joke -- as I recall David O'Connor said that it was equivalent to a 2 star.

Breeding a run and jump TB with a handy jumper is not a bad idea.

mademoiselle
Feb. 25, 2008, 10:02 AM
We can agree to disagree.

Eventing is not as popular in France than it is in NZ, UK or Ireland, therefore there is less emphasis on the breeding program and less riders to compete at the international level.
But many times the French team has been in the top placingr at the major competitions. They totally missed at the WEG in Aachen last year, but before that they have been silver medal 3x in a row at the WEG behind the US, they have done pretty well at the European Championship (which is supposed to be a ****) and even at the Olympics. As I said, I'm not saying that French are the best eventers but the results show that they have been seen at the top on more than once on homebred eventers.

cicily
Feb. 25, 2008, 10:08 AM
Certainly the French have produced many good eventers, and it will interesting to see if Summersong has any effect on their program, even though he is just one stallion.

The Selle Francais is regarded by many as the premier jumping horse in the world.

WindyIsles
Feb. 25, 2008, 10:44 AM
Stallions I would love to have foals by:


Ashfield Bobby Sparrow (Champion Eventer AND European Pony Jumper) bred foals with type and athleticism who can actually breed on. He's got two sons in particular that just make me sigh over: *Forestview Sparrow (sire of my Lady who died) and Skyline Robin (FANTASTIC jumper in Ireland).

Heck Ashfield stallions hands down - Ashfield is the premier Connemara performance stud in the world :yes: I feel very lucky to have an Ashfield Jovial Joker mare in the states and two Ashfield Storm Cloud mares in Ireland.

*Grange Finn Sparrow - pity he never got any good purebred mares in this country. Not as consistent breeding-type wise as I would have liked but damn all his babies came out jumping.

Robin Hood - Great performance pony sire. My *Catherine's Pride in the states is a granddaughter would love to have a direct (he's no longer living though :(). Part of the reason Skyline Robin is so interesting - Ashfield Bobby Sparrow x Robin Hood mare. :D

Templebready Fear Bui: Great performance pony sire - jumping or eventing. Athletic foals out the wazoo and some are very fancy looking (lots of duns). Old bloodlines too :yes:

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 25, 2008, 10:53 AM
If you want I can give you a list of French stallions that have produced UL eventers on regular basis ... Alligator is not one of them.


I'd like that list as well. When I really started looking and educating myself....I kept coming back to several French stallions. They seem to have a lot (as in mostly) TB blood but very high quality TB blood.

And I do have to agree with Mademoiselle. I looked at the videos of Alligator and Jaguar Mail....you can see a big difference in the way they gallop. Both extremely nice horses but Jaguar has more of a gallop that I want on an event horse and more then enough scope. I think it will be interesting to see what he produces.

mademoiselle
Feb. 25, 2008, 12:10 PM
I'd like that list as well. When I really started looking and educating myself....I kept coming back to several French stallions. They seem to have a lot (as in mostly) TB blood but very high quality TB blood.

And I do have to agree with Mademoiselle. I looked at the videos of Alligator and Jaguar Mail....you can see a big difference in the way they gallop. Both extremely nice horses but Jaguar has more of a gallop that I want on an event horse and more then enough scope. I think it will be interesting to see what he produces.

Send me a PM with your email, I can send you all the info. Jaguar's first babies are only 5 YO, but he already has a couple of very promising eventing babies that are doing very well in the classes opened to young horses. I would not hesitate to breed a mare to Jaguar, I like him a lot. I like his canter better too, at least for eventing. Hand in Glove, his sire has produced a boat load of 1, 2 and even 3* horses. I love Laudanum as a Dam Sire too., overall I love Jaguar's bloodlines.

grayarabpony
Feb. 25, 2008, 12:15 PM
I think it just depends on what kind of mare you have. Alligator does have a lot of agility, which I don't believe training alone can be responsible for.

I really like this stallion: http://dailymotion.alice.it/violineii/video/x19pkl_quitus-pony_animals. He is very young, but I'm almost sold on the video alone.

eventrider
Feb. 25, 2008, 12:30 PM
I wish Grange Finn Sparrow was still standing...we have been trying, very unsuccessfully, to find a full sibling or son who is standing and shipping fresh cooled, but with no luck!

I am planning to breed my Mokhieba mare via ET to Sea Accounts xx this spring and I am really excited about that cross. His temperment is just the best I have ever come across in a stallion.

JER
Feb. 25, 2008, 12:55 PM
I really like this stallion: http://dailymotion.alice.it/violineii/video/x19pkl_quitus-pony_animals. He is very young, but I'm almost sold on the video alone.

He looks like a real pistol. I also like that he doesn't have the Hackney-pony knee action that some of those German ponies have.

However, it is so important to know what a stallion produces. If a stallion has a good number of foals on the ground, you should know what to expect. Otherwise, you really have no idea.

Two examples -- both of these stallions are in their mid 20s and have a long track record of what they produce.

Jumbo, a wonderful stallion who's been mentioned numerous times on this thread, requires a quality mare. With Jumbo, you tend to get the mare plus a great brain. As physical types, the Jumbos are all over the map.

Catherston Dazzler produces a compact, uphill type in either dark brown or bay (usually no white anywhere). They all seem to have the same head. You can pick them out of a crowd.

Dazzler has two stallion 'brothers' who produce quite different types. Dutch Gold -- by the same stallion -- was a refined, very TB-looking horse; his offspring tend to be taller and bigger than Dazzler's, even though Dazzler was much bigger all around than Dutch Gold (I have a photo of them together). The stallion by the same dam, Summersong, has offspring that look more like his sire Fleetwater Opposition. I haven't seen many of these (and only in photos) but they tend to run in the 15.3hh range and have the front-end look of FO and his get.

My point here is you can eliminate some of the risk in breeding by paying less attention to what a stallion looks like and more attention to what his offspring look like.

Hopefully, the FEH/YEH will give eventers more opportunity to see breeding in action.

Fallbrook
Feb. 25, 2008, 01:02 PM
Sorry to post twice, but in the same vein as this thread title...Area II is going to have an EVENT STALLION SERVICE AUCTION and the list of stallions will be posted at the Area II website later this week... will benefit Young Riders....many of the mentioned stallions on this thread are participating along with some highly desirable others....sorry to hijack but if you are considering breeding please do not miss some of the great bargains we'll have available. www.usea2.net -- not up yet -- please check later in the week.

For what season? 2009?

Speedy
Feb. 25, 2008, 01:20 PM
One of our clients is breeding a fantastic little Hol/TB cross mare to Catherston Dazzler this spring, which has me on cloud nine! When the mare went home a few years ago to supposedly be her owner's hunt horse (I think she may have actually ridden her a whopping 5 times :(), we were concerned the mare would just go to waste or breed to a less than desirable stallion. But the owner picked a good one and I am SO excited!!!! Should make for a very, very nice baby. :yes:



GotSpots, I'm glad you said all that about Windstar. He is very, very high on our list for little mare when she is eventually bred. She is very light, so we want something with a good bit of substance but athletic (of course, as athletic as she is, we could probably breed her to a plow horse and still get a jumping machine :lol:). I love the look of him, and I have been nothing but impressed by his babies (including the amateur's mare you referred to!).

Also on little mare's "dance card" is Formula One. And I'm pretty sure anything in England (like Dazzler or Jumbo) would also make quite a nice combination.

I like A Fine Romance and am always impressed with his babies...I wonder how he would cross with little mare?

Late to the party - but I saw your comments re Windstar and wanted to chime in, because I am an amateur with one of his babies - and because I keep my horses at Windchase, I see all of the babies that Phyllis has bred herself and then backed and brought along, year after year - so FWIW, my own has been phenomenal and very easy to bring along and the others that I've seen have all done very well. They are really, really smart horses, so I think it helps if they are in a good, consistent program, but I think that's true of a lot of the lines that have been mentioned on the thread and in general with most real talents. Anyway, I have never been on a horse with such a good mind, and my experience with this baby has been wonderful. I don't know where we'll end up, but I am definitely in it for the long haul with this one because she has been such a joy.

purplnurpl
Feb. 25, 2008, 01:22 PM
Coolman.

: )
I started a thread on him a while back.

Drvmb1ggl3
Feb. 25, 2008, 01:27 PM
Wow, no love for Master Imp?

Since we're talking hypotethicals, I wouldn't mind sending a few mares to Monsun, just I like the cut of that horse. If we are talking really hyptethetical, i.e dead horses, then Strong Gale, Roselier and Cavalier Royale.

Speaking of eventer breeding, here's a pedigree (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/highland+imperius) to make you drool.

grayarabpony
Feb. 25, 2008, 01:36 PM
He looks like a real pistol. I also like that he doesn't have the Hackney-pony knee action that some of those German ponies have.



He's a Connemara, 3 years old in the video.

JER
Feb. 25, 2008, 01:49 PM
Wow, no love for Master Imp?

Since we're talking hypotethicals, I wouldn't mind sending a few mares to Monsun, just I like the cut of that horse. If we are talking really hyptethetical, i.e dead horses, then Strong Gale, Roselier and Cavalier Royale.

Master Imp's offspring are terrific. I haven't ever seen a photo of MI himself, however. I don't believe he has any cyber presence at all. He stands in Co. Wicklow, I think? I'd really like to see a photo -- you can read that he's 'beautiful' and has 'amazing paces' but it would be nice to see the actual source of these platitudes.

I also love Monsun (http://www.fontana-syndikat.de/monsun.html). He has at least one stallion son that has drifted into the sporthorse world, Leopardstown who is repped at a sporthorse group is Australia. Monsun's fee is 120,000 euros this year. Maybe next year?

We've also forgotten Ben Faerie.

Drvmb1ggl3
Feb. 25, 2008, 02:18 PM
Master Imp's offspring are terrific. I haven't ever seen a photo of MI himself, however. I don't believe he has any cyber presence at all. He stands in Co. Wicklow, I think? I'd really like to see a photo -- you can read that he's 'beautiful' and has 'amazing paces' but it would be nice to see the actual source of these platitudes.

I also love Monsun (http://www.fontana-syndikat.de/monsun.html). He has at least one stallion son that has drifted into the sporthorse world, Leopardstown who is repped at a sporthorse group is Australia. Monsun's fee is 120,000 euros this year. Maybe next year?

We've also forgotten Ben Faerie.

Master Imp is in Carlow, at Slyguff. Are there really no pictures of him on the web? Websites etc wouldn't really be their thing, and not like they need it anyway with their reputation.

Actually, Monsun is up to €150,000 ($225k) for 2008.

Hilary
Feb. 25, 2008, 02:38 PM
I am waiting to see what Cicera's Icewater's foals are going to do. he looks lovely.

I have a mare by Windstar, and while she is phenomenal in many ways, she is a handful, and not really an amatuer's horse. Great jump, great feet, smart as a whip, great mover, but she'll have you off in a heartbeat because she's so quick. And she's ALL mare. People talk about mares being "not mare-ish". Star wears her tiara with pride and woe to all who fail to notice. ;)

Most of them are like this apparently.

I agree with the people who say wait to see what the babies are actually like. I am not so impressed with a young stallion in a video. I want to know what they actually produce.

I love what Catherston Dazzler has produced, and A Fine Romance has also proven to throw babies who can do both hunters and eventers. If I was going for full TB, I would want a foal by him.

WindyIsles
Feb. 25, 2008, 02:53 PM
I wish Grange Finn Sparrow was still standing...we have been trying, very unsuccessfully, to find a full sibling or son who is standing and shipping fresh cooled, but with no luck!

I am planning to breed my Mokhieba mare via ET to Sea Accounts xx this spring and I am really excited about that cross. His temperment is just the best I have ever come across in a stallion.

PM me and I can give you some ifo :)

Fallbrook
Feb. 25, 2008, 03:16 PM
I am waiting to see what Cicera's Icewater's foals are going to do. he looks lovely.

I have a yearling by Coromino (http://www.heritagemanorfarm.com/coromino_main.php) who, like Cicera's Icewater, is by Corofino. I'm really pleased with this colt, who looks just like his sire. He's very correct, uphill, with straight legs, a short back and a gorgeous neck. He looks like he'll be a good all-around athlete. I tend to keep everything born on our farm, so I'm very picky when it comes to character and rideability, which is one of the reasons I went with Coromino.

IfWishesWereHorses
Feb. 25, 2008, 03:23 PM
[QUOTE=JER;3033746]
.

My point here is you can eliminate some of the risk in breeding by paying less attention to what a stallion looks like and more attention to what his offspring look like.
QUOTE]


I agree with your entire post..but this part in particular. Too often people only look at the fancy stallion and don't consider the offspring, or what mares have been used.

Also...If you get a really hideous foal, 9 times out of 10 people are going to blame the stallion...without any regard for the mare's imput.

grayarabpony
Feb. 25, 2008, 05:27 PM
However, it is so important to know what a stallion produces. If a stallion has a good number of foals on the ground, you should know what to expect. Otherwise, you really have no idea.



That is true. This young stallion is very well bred though, a Dexter Leam Pondi son. However, since he's in France and I don't know if his owners will offer frozen, it's all a pipe dream anyway.

ThreeDays
Feb. 25, 2008, 06:21 PM
I agree - very important to look at a sire's production record. Also very important to understand the mare's lineage as well as understanding the sire's dam line.

Cavalier Royale who's been mentioned a few times now is out of the prepotant mare Ligustra who is mother to not only Cavalier Royale but also the approved Holsteiner stallion Cicero and as well as the producing mare Cicera. (All full siblings). Cicera also happens to be the dam of Cicera's Icewater.

Cicera and her mother Ligustra hail from one of the most well respected and known Holsteiner mother lines in Germany known as stamm 474a.

The stamm is litered with international sporthorses as well as international level 3-day eventers. It's not an accident. ;)

Lori T
Feb. 25, 2008, 06:28 PM
Wow, no love for Master Imp?

Since we're talking hypotethicals, I wouldn't mind sending a few mares to Monsun, just I like the cut of that horse. If we are talking really hyptethetical, i.e dead horses, then Strong Gale, Roselier and Cavalier Royale.

Speaking of eventer breeding, here's a pedigree (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/highland+imperius) to make you drool.

Hmm, would love to see a picture..wouldn't it be funny to breed Mr Imp to our Imp?!!

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 25, 2008, 06:44 PM
I agree - very important to look at a sire's production record. Also very important to understand the mare's lineage as well as understanding the sire's dam line.

Cavalier Royale who's been mentioned a few times now is out of the prepotant mare Ligustra who is mother to not only Cavalier Royale but also the approved Holsteiner stallion Cicero and as well as the producing mare Cicera. (All full siblings). Cicera also happens to be the dam of Cicera's Icewater.

Cicera and her mother Ligustra hail from one of the most well respected and known Holsteiner mother lines in Germany known as stamm 474a.

The stamm is litered with international sporthorses as well as international level 3-day eventers. It's not an accident. ;)

Cicera's Icewater does have one of the best pedigrees that I've seen....plus I've only heard good things about him as an event horse himself. I thought seriously about him for my mare but decided I wanted a smaller stallion for my mare for her first foal and wanted to see what his (and her) youngsters look like first.

But I'm personally often drawn more often to the dam lines then sire lines....it can just be hard to find info about a particluar dam unless you know her breeder. And while I do drool over videos and pictures of stallions...I too spend more time looking at their offspring and if at all possible, the dams of those offspring. I've seen some WONDERFUL foals by stallions...but sometimes those foals are spitting images of their dams (which can be a good thing too). I love it when I can see offspring of a sire that is out of a dam similar in type and breeding to my mare.

retreadeventer
Feb. 25, 2008, 07:54 PM
For what season? 2009?
We are doing this very quickly and the auction will open the beginning of March and we will end it tentatively after 30 to 45 days if the bids are high enough. I know it's late for some but many people don't get their breeding decisions made like anal Coth'ers two years out, so we are hopeful that the fine quality of the breedings will encourage people to find bargains on our list! Some stallion owners may honor 2009 breedings, when we post them you are encouraged to check with them if not posted in the information with the specific stallion. Please! It's an all volunteer thing! To benefit Young Riders! If you have some criticism can you provide it in a constructive manner, to help us - who have so little free time to do something for our sport?

Toadie's mom
Feb. 25, 2008, 09:07 PM
Since I'm not supposed to be breeding anymore ;) I'm going to go with the completely hypothetical wish list of TB's I can never afford. Not even if I won the regular Lotto, it'd have to be the Power Ball!
Starting with the most affordable:
Johar - 12,500
Perfect Soul - 15,000
Rock Hard Ten - 50,000
Dynaformer - 150,000
Montjeu - 185,275 (approx. USD)
Encosta De Lago - 203,983 (approx. USD)

grayarabpony
Feb. 25, 2008, 09:25 PM
The stamm is litered with international sporthorses as well as international level 3-day eventers. It's not an accident. ;)

And yet, some of the best eventers and most spectacular jumpers have been failed racehorses.

dutchmike
Feb. 25, 2008, 09:54 PM
Do not forget Puerto D'Azur a BW who won the 100 day test and has produced some nice offspring that are competing in the advanced classes and one that is gonna go for Rolex. Also has some offspring in the hunter/jumper circuit to.
I have seen him and worked with him some time ago and this is a very nice stallion in every way. Actually that nice I have no idea how they ever let him come to the US from Belgium. I guess he was to young to show what he had in him when he got brought over;)

Fallbrook
Feb. 25, 2008, 09:59 PM
And yet, some of the best eventers and most spectacular jumpers have been failed racehorses.

The WBFSH keeps statistics for FEI event horses. The 2007 results are at http://www.wbfsh.org/html/ranking/2007/c_horses_0709_final.pdf

They also have historical data, as well as summaries by breed. The sad thing about the eventing horses, as opposed to the dressage and jumpers, is that about half of the horses have no sire and dam listed, which makes it very difficult to do any meaningful analysis about the eventing-oriented breeding. Also, since the USA has no breeding society for TBs - they get left out in the cold when it comes to rankings for breed societies -

http://www.wbfsh.org/html/ranking/2007/c_breed_0709_final.pdf

STF
Feb. 25, 2008, 10:33 PM
Do not forget Puerto D'Azur a BW who won the 100 day test and has produced some nice offspring that are competing in the advanced classes and one that is gonna go for Rolex. Also has some offspring in the hunter/jumper circuit to.
I have seen him and worked with him some time ago and this is a very nice stallion in every way. Actually that nice I have no idea how they ever let him come to the US from Belgium. I guess he was to young to show what he had in him when he got brought over;)


Thank you!
Yes, we have 4 offspring doing Novice and above sired by Puerto. Seth (http://www.sethtousey.com/) and Griffin X being the highest. I love my equi-kids! :)

Blue Yonder
Feb. 26, 2008, 12:28 AM
We are doing this very quickly and the auction will open the beginning of March and we will end it tentatively after 30 to 45 days if the bids are high enough. I know it's late for some but many people don't get their breeding decisions made like anal Coth'ers two years out, so we are hopeful that the fine quality of the breedings will encourage people to find bargains on our list! Some stallion owners may honor 2009 breedings, when we post them you are encouraged to check with them if not posted in the information with the specific stallion. Please! It's an all volunteer thing! To benefit Young Riders! If you have some criticism can you provide it in a constructive manner, to help us - who have so little free time to do something for our sport?


Having found myself in the enviable position of looking for an eventing husband for a fabulous new (unexpected!) mare, I can't wait to see the Area II auction lineup!

(I'm leaning a bit Irish at the moment, considering both Phyllis's stallion and Formula One, both of whom have been mentioned here previously.)

Interesting thread!

ThreeDays
Feb. 26, 2008, 08:44 AM
And yet, some of the best eventers and most spectacular jumpers have been failed racehorses.

Yes - I don't think anybody forgets that.

But this thread was asking about breeding for an event horse.

Just because a TB who was bred to race ended up being a super event horse - doesn't mean (and actually is fairly unlikely) that they will produce generations of future event horses.

Some stallions people are discussing here have come from families that produce eventers and who themselves are cosistantly producing horses for the specific sport of eventing.

Breeding a failed race horse who found success in eventing to a mare who only did lower or itermediate levels of eventing is not the likely winning combo.

grayarabpony
Feb. 26, 2008, 09:43 AM
Yes - I don't think anybody forgets that.

But this thread was asking about breeding for an event horse.

Just because a TB who was bred to race ended up being a super event horse - doesn't mean (and actually is fairly unlikely) that they will produce generations of future event horses.

Some stallions people are discussing here have come from families that produce eventers and who themselves are cosistantly producing horses for the specific sport of eventing.

Breeding a failed race horse who found success in eventing to a mare who only did lower or itermediate levels of eventing is not the likely winning combo.

Actually no one knows if a TB bred to race that ends up being a super event horse produce generations of future event horses, for two reasons: 1) most are geldings and 2) of the mares, few are bred for generations of eventing success in this country. Actually it would be stupid to throw those bloodlines away and not use them. It's stupid to say that a horse such as Ready Teddy, if he was a stallion, would be unlikely to produce horses that would be good at eventing and jumping in general. Do you think all of his success is based on his phenotype and not his genotype? Do you think Denny is foolish to be standing an ex-racehorse?

And as for this statement "Breeding a failed race horse who found success in eventing to a mare who only did lower or itermediate levels of eventing is not the likely winning combo" --- I didn't suggest it. Besides, it's not even a bad idea. Not everyone wants to go to Badminton. What about those who want a packer for training through intermediate? Those horses are worth a lot of money. And -- a mare may have only done lower or intermediate levels because of her rider. There are a lot of horses out there who can go advanced who never have.

InVA
Feb. 26, 2008, 10:49 AM
Hard Spun!


2nd in the KY derby, 3rd in the preakness, 3rd in the Belmont after leading most of the way around against nothing but class! . Tons of heart - little, kind, put together well, FAST , by Danzig, did I mention tons of heart?

;-)

ThreeDays
Feb. 26, 2008, 10:52 AM
Yikes! You're taking what I said way out of text. :eek:



And I don't think I'll honor a thoughtful reply to a poster tossing around the words stupid and foolish. It's clear you don't want to have a positive conversation.

BTW - Deputed Testamony is not a failed race horse ;)

InVA
Feb. 26, 2008, 11:00 AM
Yi

BTW - Deputed Testamony is not a failed race horse ;)

THat's RIGHT - he won the Preakness for pete's sake...THAT doesn't suck!

Danzig ran, what, THREE times.? here's what they say about him:
Sire of BC winners Lure, Chief's Crown, War Chant and Dance Smartly and of champions Pine Bluff, War Front, Versailles Treaty, Dayjur, Anabaa, Brahms and 2007 star HARD SPUN
Sire of sires through sons Danehill, Danzig Connection, Green Desert and Polish Navy. Leading sire by stakes wins in N. American history.

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 26, 2008, 11:01 AM
Anyone know anything about Koyuna Majestic Supreme?

I love that horse Koyuna Magic Sun....and it is his sire but I know nothing else. Seen pictures of a few other offspring and I sure wouldn't kick them out of the barn.

grayarabpony
Feb. 26, 2008, 11:41 AM
No, I didn't take anything out of contex at all. In fact, you're taking what I wrote out of context.

Denny Emerson stands Reputed Testimony, not Deputed Testimony (his sire), and I have owned a mare whose sire won the Preakness. She was a washup both as a racehorse and a sporthorse. Therefore showing that bloodlines aren't everything. Although Reputed Testimony is a marvelous horse, obviously he's not one of the most sought after racehorse sires or Denny couldn't have afforded him. In fact, I was going to breed my TB mare to Reputed Testimony the year that he colicked.

Edited to add: I never claimed that Reputed Testimony was a failed racehorse anyway. Read please. The post says ex-racehorse.

JER
Feb. 26, 2008, 12:06 PM
It really doesn't matter what the stallion himself did. He could be successful at racing, a failure at racing, a blue ribbon winner on the line, YEH champion -- but in the end all that matters is what he produces.

Some examples:

Master Imp, discussed earlier, so popular he has a book limited to 100 mares/year and you can't find a photo of him online. What has Master Imp done with his life? Breeding, that's it. He was bought as a three year-old and put to stud pronto. His owners needed a TB for their roster, he was a son of top TB sport sire Imperious. The owners know a thing or two about breeding and felt he'd produce good TB sport horses and also cross well with heavier mares. I'd love to see a picture. He's 16.2hh, bay and allegedly gorgeous with a terrific topline and movement. But this horse never raced, never jumped, never had an under-saddle career of any kind.

Clover Hill, the legendary Irish stallion, an RID/TBx. Bought as a two year old to stand at stud. Had very busy stud career. Again, owner knew about breeding and correctly assumed he'd be a good sport producer. (He had about 2000 registered foals.)

Ben Faerie (http://www.brendonhill-stallions.co.uk/benfaerie.htm), TB sire of fantastic eventers like Priceless and Night Cap. Bought as a 2 year-old for 250 GBP, started breeding at 3. C'est tout -- no performance career.

All of these stallions were owned by experienced owners who were looking for a horse that would produce specific traits. Master Imp has refinement and topline; Clover Hill had power and TB blood; Ben Faerie had short cannon bones (and his owner wanted a bay as well).

We can't get away from the fact that in breeding, progeny trumps all.

This goes for mares too. If your mare has had a couple of foals, you know what she produces. My mare's third identical dark brown filly (all from different stallions) was not exactly a surprise.

grayarabpony
Feb. 26, 2008, 12:28 PM
We can't get away from the fact that in breeding, progeny trumps all.




Yes, but someone has to figure out which crosses work and which don't. And my point is that there is still a lot of untapped potential out there, especially with regard to breeding event horses. Some people may want to go with a proven stallion, others may want to go with a stallion that may very well prove to be an excellent sire. Or breed a mare that has a good temperment and is athletic (and may even have a good show record). With TBs breeding for sporthorse purposes is perhaps more of an unknown than with warmbloods, but if you breed a good mare to a good stallion you're likely to get a good horse.

LAZ
Feb. 26, 2008, 01:05 PM
I'm breeding in a very limited way--I have a yearling colt and I'm breeding the same mare to Jumbo this year.

Both times I A) bred to an older horse that has tons of very rideable, trainable, successful offspring. B) Bred to something that has produced soundness, C) bred to something that produced good jumping horses. My mare is very talented and extremely brave, but tends to hot and opinionated. I'd be glad to have something like her, but something like her with a more biddable mind would be even better. My yearling colt has been extremely easy on everything thus far. I expect the Jumbo foal will be also, knock wood she gets in foal and delivers safely.

I figure that if I need to sell one of these foals at a future date a good minded, trainable athletic horse has a much better chance than one that is athletic and capable but only able to be ridden by a professional.

SandraD
Feb. 26, 2008, 02:18 PM
Another vote for Puerto D'Azur. Having seen him & his babies in person I would love to cross him on a TB mare. With 2 kids in high school and college looming I hope that he is still standing when I can afford to do it. Sigh.

Horselvr5
Feb. 26, 2008, 08:28 PM
Horselvr,

Theodore O'Connor is a gelding...not sure if you mean that you would want to breed a pony like him? He does have two full siblings that are stallions though.

Christan


He is? Drat! Oh, right... I did know that, I just forgot ;)
Yeah, I pretty much just want a pony exactly like him.
Not that I could fit on him anyways, (I'm a bit over 5'11"), but I still love him.
I really like Windfall II and Consul though.

grayarabpony
Feb. 27, 2008, 11:49 AM
I second the choice of Summersong -- although I don't know if his owners shipping frozen out of the country, and although he's supertalented, he looked to be running away with his rider in the '95 Badminton video.

mademoiselle
Feb. 27, 2008, 12:24 PM
Summersong is a proven stallion and so whatever he did at Badminton in 95 is not relevant to what he produces or not.
Summersong has it all : the proven bloodlines, the show record and most of all, his offspring is spectacular.


The problem is that the quality of his forzen semen is not very good and it has been the #1 reason for him not being available in the US.

And BTW, my policy is to not make any judgements on riders that are far better than I am. So, If somebody manages to finish clear at the 4* level with a horse on regular basis, I would assume that they are not run away by their horse and that's just part of the way the horse is going.

JER
Feb. 27, 2008, 12:39 PM
I second the choice of Summersong -- although I don't know if his owners shipping frozen out of the country, and although he's supertalented, he looked to be running away with his rider in the '95 Badminton video.

Summersong's rider, Marie-Christine Duroy, has an unorthodox, forward riding style. Two UL riders I know -- one French, the other from the UK -- claim she's the most talented XC rider they've ever seen.

mademoiselle
Feb. 27, 2008, 12:48 PM
Thank you JER for defending Marie-Christine Duroy. She is indeed a very good rider that has brought up many, many horses from not broke to the Advanced level.
She has ridden many different types of horses and overall has done a very good job with all of them.

I know Summersong very well and he was the type of horse who didn't like to have any input from his rider. He needed to be in charge in order to perform. It takes a very good rider to accept that and to understand that it's in the best interest of the horse to let him go like this.

Summersong is probably one of the most talented horses I have seen and he had a great parternship with his rider.

Trust me, she was always in control if she needed to do something. You don't get run away at the **** level;)

JER
Feb. 27, 2008, 12:54 PM
I know Summersong very well and he was the type of horse who didn't like to have any input from his rider. He needed to be in charge in order to perform. It takes a very good rider to accept that and to understand that it's in the best interest of the horse to let him go like this.

Summersong is probably one of the most talented horses I have seen and he had a great parternship with his rider.


This is exactly why they were so riveting to watch. The water at the Atlanta Olympics was just outstanding, a perfect example for what XC can be.

ponyjumper4
Feb. 27, 2008, 01:00 PM
I'll take a Sea Accounts baby (that is one of the sweetest stallions out there), a Formula One baby (I've always wanted a dapple grey gelding) and another Makuba baby (GRP stallion) as I simply adore the one I have now. I'll also take a foal from eventrider's new pony stallion (Teddy's full brother)

grayarabpony
Feb. 27, 2008, 01:11 PM
Gosh, you two know more than Mike Tucker and Andrew Hoy? Have you seen the footage from the '95 Badminton video and Hoy's commentary from the World Games in '98? My guess is you have not.

I'm getting a little sick of being misquoted. I did not ever say that Marie-Christine Duroy wasn't a good rider, and therefore she doesn't need defending from me. Summersong was very strong at those events, there's no point in even arguing about it. And Summersong had a rather disastrous go-around in Atlanta. He had a refusal at the first water and his rider was later thrown at a bank when he refused.

JER and Madamoiselle, you sound as though you're a little out of the loop.

Edited to add: Madamoiselle, you sound ruffled. Was it because I disagreed with you earlier? Well, this is the internet, and I am entitled to my own opinion, and have every right to express it. Besides, Summersong is a stallion I would CHOOSE. Even if he doesn't like input from his rider, ie, his rideability could be improved.

mademoiselle
Feb. 27, 2008, 01:53 PM
Madamoiselle, you sound ruffled. Was it because I disagreed with you earlier?

:lol::lol::lol::lol:


Well, this is the internet, and I am entitled to my own opinion, and have every right to express it
I 100% agree with you ... You see we can agree on something ;)


Even if he doesn't like input from his rider, ie, his rideability could be improved.
And that's where we disagree (it couldn't last forever). I don't care how many videos you watch, till you're in the rider's shoes, you don't really know what the deal is. The all monday morning quaterbacking mentality is what gets me ... Not the fact that somebody doesn't have the same opinion as mine.
I just think that saying 'although he's supertalented, he looked to be running away with his rider in the '95 Badminton video' (that way you're not misquoted), doesn't bring anything to the debate on him being a good stallion or not. Totally irrelevant in the discussion. So, my point was till you compete at that level on regular basis, you should not judge people.

And BTW, Atlanta was one of the only few events where Summersong got some penalties on the XC. It happens to the best at that level. All the top riders/horses combo have had at least one event in their career where things didn't go right (Dan/kim at Burghley, Ready Teddy/Tait, even Andrew Hoy), it doesn't mean that somebody should make comments on the way they train their horse, they are still better than most of us:yes:

grayarabpony
Feb. 27, 2008, 02:10 PM
You definitely sound ruffled. I'm amazed that you know more than Andrew Hoy and Mike Tucker, and perhaps they shouldn't be commentating -- after all, they haven't ridden the horse. :lol: What do they know?

And of course I have every right to judge a rider at any level -- good riding is good riding, and very evident. The fact that the horse may lack some rideability is very relevant to a discussion of whether or not a stallion is suitable. That's just it -- you don't get to tell me what I can and can't think about, and express.

Certainly Summersong had a lot of problems in Atlanta -- at the first water his performance certainly wasn't outstanding, and it wasn't a perfect example of what XC can be.

Kanga
Feb. 27, 2008, 02:35 PM
OK!! I have got to put my 2 cents in here!!

I was there at Badminton in '95 and watched Summersong very closely through the whole event. This was one of the most spectacular stallions I have ever seen compete (or any horse for that mattter!) YES, he is strong but the athleticness that comes with that is unbelievable. Just about every amazing 4 star horse out there has had some mishap somewhere in their career. I would never hold Atlanta against him nor would that ever be the factor I would use in choosing to breed to a horse. We could pull up results from many 4 star horses and find out worse things that have happened.

When I watched Summersong in '95, I decided that was the stallion I would breed a mare to one day. Long story short, his semen is no good frozen, so I bred to his sire Fleetwater Opposition instead. I now have 2 stunning babies and I can only hope they are something like Summersong.

Some people choose to breed very safe but perhaps not spectacular. I do think that sometimes the horses with a mind of there own are a bit more brilliant although they might not be the best horse for everyone to ride. However, there is something to be said for Summersongs rider to have shown us this amazing stallion and his stunning presence in a way she knew how to get the best from him.

Take a good look at what Fleetwater Opposition has put on the ground and you will find out he has produced many, many Advanced horses for decades. That is always what I would be looking for in breeding the Upper Level Event Horse.

JER
Feb. 27, 2008, 02:36 PM
Gosh, you two know more than Mike Tucker and Andrew Hoy? Have you seen the footage from the '95 Badminton video and Hoy's commentary from the World Games in '98? My guess is you have not.

I'm getting a little sick of being misquoted. I did not ever say that Marie-Christine Duroy wasn't a good rider, and therefore she doesn't need defending from me. Summersong was very strong at those events, there's no point in even arguing about it. And Summersong had a rather disastrous go-around in Atlanta. He had a refusal at the first water and his rider was later thrown at a bank when he refused.

JER and Madamoiselle, you sound as though you're a little out of the loop.

Edited to add: Madamoiselle, you sound ruffled. Was it because I disagreed with you earlier? Well, this is the internet, and I am entitled to my own opinion, and have every right to express it. Besides, Summersong is a stallion I would CHOOSE. Even if he doesn't like input from his rider, ie, his rideability could be improved.

Haven't seen the videos you're talking about. I did see the 2nd water in Atlanta and it was outstanding.

Summersong is a stallion. Don't see many of his gender at the CCI**** level, do you? He competed at that level for quite a while. The competitions you're mentioning -- Atlanta Olympics, Badminton, WEG, all indifferent years -- are no small feat for any horse, let alone a stallion.

Andrew Hoy wouldn't ride this horse at this level. I'd put money on that. He's a great, great rider but totally different than M-C Duroy. He has different strengths and skills; her talents were well-suited to this horse. She brought him to this level, that says a lot for 'rideability'. So does riding him for years at this level.

You don't just plop a new rider on a stallion and expect results. A good example of this is the Irish showjumping stallion Cruising. He had one rider for 7 years, a patient rider who figured out how to make a world-class showjumper out of a fussy, spooky horse. He refused to ride the horse when the European champs were held at Hickstead, saying the Hickstead fences would be too scary for the stallion. His actual quote was "I'm not throwing away 7 years of hard work for the sake of one afternoon." (Now there's a horseman.) The owner fired the rider, then shuffled the around to other riders who could not/would not compete the horse at that level. The horse was soon retired. 'Rideability' with a stallion is very much about a partnership and mutual understanding, far more so in eventing than in other disciplines.

If 'rideability' is your priority, I wouldn't breed to a horse like Summersong. You'll probably get more athlete than most people can handle or would want to handle.

I didn't think you said M-C Duroy wasn't a good rider. But I know a bit more about this rider, as does mademoiselle, and wanted to say something about her unusual style and abilities, which I very much admire. I also know I could never ride like her; it takes so much talent, balance and trust.

mademoiselle
Feb. 27, 2008, 02:44 PM
I agree with you Kanga. That's pretty much what I was trying to say:yes:

So, far Summersongs babies are really good. They have won pretty much everything in the YEH classes in France. He is currently #1 eventing Sire in France.

Despite the problem with frozen semen, the only thing I might add about Summersong is that he (as a stallion) has a tendency to really inforce the traits of the mare. So, when you breed to him, you need to be sure that you like the mare;). He doesn't really stamp his babies like Fleetwater does.

grayarabpony
Feb. 27, 2008, 02:50 PM
Well, I did say I would choose him, did I not? Can people not read? With some reservations about his rideability. He almost got away from Duroy more than once on the '95 Badminton course, so for someone like Madamoiselle to say that I shouldn't remark on it is ridiculous. Hoy commented on Summersong getting strong at the '98 World Games. I imagine Hoy has seen more of Duroy and Summersong than either you or madamoiselle. The issue isn't whether or not Hoy would want to ride the stallion; it's whether or not Summersong got strong with Duroy. It's pretty evident when a horse gets strong on course.

Actually, I don't believe that either you or madamoiselle know more than I do about how Duroy rides; I have been watching her for years. You're just assuming that you know more.

mademoiselle
Feb. 27, 2008, 03:44 PM
Actually, I don't believe that either you or madamoiselle know more than I do about Duroy; I have been watching her for years. You're just assuming that you know more.

I don't want to turn this into I know MC Duroy better than you do game, because that's not the point of the thread. But if you want I would be happy to give you a couple of references in private to back up what I'm stating.

And yes, I indeed happen to know her very well:lol: That's the beauty of France, it's a very small country, everybody knows each other:D

To stay on track regarding the topic, if a stallion proves to be a good sire (which Summersong is), then is rideability is not an issue anymore.

His babies are actually pretty easy under saddle. As I stated earlier, he doesn't stamp his offspring very much and most of them ride like their dam.

grayarabpony
Feb. 27, 2008, 03:57 PM
You may be personal friends with Duroy, for all I know -- shrug -- I can still comment on how the stallion performs under saddle.

If he doesn't stamp his offspring very much, then his babies' success must be due to the quality of the dams... but a good sire should stamp his offspring.

I'll try to remember to only breed a mare I like. Thanks.

mademoiselle
Feb. 27, 2008, 04:06 PM
If he doesn't stamp his offspring very much, then his babies' success must be due to the quality of the dams...


You're right, he has been bred to really good mares. They have been very picky about the mares he was bred to.

That's one of the principles of breeding anyway ... The mare is more important than the stallion when breeding (it's true wether the stallion stamps or doesn't stamp his offspring).

I still would breed to him. It's not because his babies are not carbon copies of him that he is not improving them :yes:

grayarabpony
Feb. 27, 2008, 04:32 PM
Yes, I would think he could only improve a horse. But I guess he doesn't stamp them with his jump? Are all of his babies in France? One of his most impressive traits was his cattiness.

JER
Feb. 27, 2008, 08:23 PM
If he doesn't stamp his offspring very much, then his babies' success must be due to the quality of the dams... but a good sire should stamp his offspring.



Except if a stallion stamps his offspring with a good brain (this is what Jumbo is known for), it might not be apparent on the video.

And, as a general rule, if you want a horse like stallion X, you'll stand a better chance of getting it from the stallion's own parents than from the stallion himself.

This is why Kanga is very wise to breed from Fleetwater Opposition. Kanga, if you're still around, did you breed an Irish mare to FO? Then you have an even better chance of a little Summersong. :)

grayarabpony
Feb. 27, 2008, 08:53 PM
I would not choose a stallion based on video alone. Nor when breeding would I try to replicate a stallion -- I'd try to pick a stallion who would best complement my mare.

Kanga bred to Fleetwater Opposition because she couldn't breed her mare to Summersong. Not that Fleetwater Opposition is a bad choice! :)

Kanga
Feb. 27, 2008, 09:08 PM
JER-

YES, YES, you hit the nail on the head there. I did breed my imported Irish Mare to Fleetwater Opposition. I have 2 Irish Sport Horse/Trakehner crosses! They are, I think as close as you can come to getting something like Summersong. My stallion is stunning!! My filly is still young and I believe will probably turn out a bit more Irish looking than my stallion. Gaelic Opposition is his name, he is just coming 3 and has some very similar traits to Summersong. I can only hope that we follow down the road of his 1/2 brother.

grayarabpony- yes, you are right because at the time if Summersong had good frozen semen it would have been him BUT in retrospect I'm glad I did what I did since it REALLY was Summersongs sire that was putting all the advanced horses on the ground. Summersong is just too young to have that proven yet, not that it won't happen, I'm sure it will. Fleetwater Opposition WAS chosen to compliment my mare. I had to be careful not to breed to something that would throw too much height, my mare is 17'3".

I think when we all are breeding, we are essentially trying to replicate something we like. There will never be another Summersong, I know that but I like the qualities that he has and wanted a horse similar to him. That is why I chose the breeding the way I did. So far, I can't complain.

mademoiselle
Feb. 27, 2008, 09:11 PM
Kanga, is he going to be at the FEH demo at Rolex ?

If so, I'm really looking forward to meeting him. He looks really, really yummy on all the pictures I have seen of him;)

Kanga
Feb. 27, 2008, 09:28 PM
Mademoiselle-

Yes, he will be one of the 5 horses in the Future Event Horse Demonstration at Rolex!!

He did it last year and this will be his final year since he is turning 3. He will compete in the Future Event Horse Series this year and his little sister will start up too in that series.

I look forward to meeting your beautiful horse also!

JER
Feb. 27, 2008, 09:55 PM
Kanga, I looked at your website. Your youngsters are lovely. They both really have the FO look.

Very nice that you have a full sister -- when I visited Catherston, I saw they'd bred full sisters to some of their stallions and used them to breed to outside stallions.

The FEH thing sounds interesting and as I'll be at my home in that part of the world in April, maybe I'll make the drive up to watch. (There was another thread on this FEH event, IIRC, I'll have to get the details...)

Kanga
Feb. 27, 2008, 10:09 PM
JER-

Catherston is amazing, isn't it?? They have some GREAT horses there. If I have babies in the future with my Opposition Filly, the plan would be to cross her with one of there stallions, probably Dazzler. Now, what a combination that would be!!

mademoiselle
Feb. 27, 2008, 10:40 PM
Mademoiselle-

I look forward to meeting your beautiful horse also!

Ok, right now he looks like a furry bear and as far as conformation goes, he is about 14.3H at the wither and 15.1 at the butt:eek::eek::eek:
I have one month to pull on his front legs to get him somewhat even:lol:

In France and Germany, we don't do anything with the babies between 6 months and 3 YO, they stay hidden in the pastures ... I understand why now :D

At least I will be able to say that my horse went to Rolex once in his life;)

Kanga
Feb. 27, 2008, 10:52 PM
That's right Mademoiselle! At least he will go there once in his lifetime and you never know mabey he will be there as a big boy too! I felt that way about Badminton when I was living over there....so....I went to a jumper show and walked around on my horse in front of the castle just dreaming of trot-ups!

They go through such different stages with their growth, you never know mabey in 2 months he will even out a bit!!

But meanwhile PULL HARD on those front legs......

Kyrie
Feb. 28, 2008, 03:14 AM
Any of the Welton stallions :D

grayarabpony
Feb. 28, 2008, 07:45 AM
My questions about Summersong went unanswered. In fact, if I go with madamoiselle says, Summersong's rideability doesn't matter because he doesn't stamp his get anyway.

Fallbrook
Feb. 28, 2008, 01:26 PM
My questions about Summersong went unanswered. In fact, if I go with madamoiselle says, Summersong's rideability doesn't matter because he doesn't stamp his get anyway.

Perhaps she has taken the high road here and has decided not to argue?

grayarabpony
Feb. 28, 2008, 01:37 PM
The high road has nothing to do with this. I wasn't the one who got all stirred up over an observation of a horse's performance. And you have to admit, that is a summary of what she wrote. But I guess you want to argue? -- since your post had nothing with do with my questions about Summersong.

mademoiselle
Feb. 28, 2008, 02:42 PM
Mademoiselle is 39 weeks pregnant, is having contractions and not in a mood to answer the question. If the contractions stop and I feel better, i might take the time to reply

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 28, 2008, 03:47 PM
Mademoiselle is 39 weeks pregnant, is having contractions and not in a mood to answer the question. If the contractions stop and I feel better, i might take the time to reply


How exciting! Hope that your little "foal" is done cooking and doesn't drag out the labor thing. Best of luck!

grayarabpony
Feb. 28, 2008, 04:30 PM
That's OK, madamoiselle, you can forget it.

LAZ
Feb. 29, 2008, 10:22 AM
Grayarabpony,

I usually stay out of pi**ing matches on here, but I must say, you are being a pain.

grayarabpony
Feb. 29, 2008, 10:45 AM
I'm glad you dredged this thread up just to say that. How nice of you. You know, I was actually about to send madamoiselle a PM, but then I thought better of it. I didn't deserved to be jumped on because I said that I liked Summersong and observed that he did get strong crosscountry. He DID get strong crosscountry at some events, and I doubt he went better when he was somewhat out of control :lol: as someone suggested. Even if he did sometimes get strong -- and a LOT of event horses do -- it still doesn't mean that Summersong doesn't represent the pinnacle of eventing breeding. Which he does to me. Or that I was trying to fault Duroy as a rider. If this got lost in my post because someone was touchy, that's not my fault. I would hope that Summersong would pass on his neatness and roundness over jumps and his cattiness because they were such stand-out features of his. He had a way of making other horses look plain Jane.

Stacie
Mar. 1, 2008, 08:44 PM
With TBs breeding for sporthorse purposes is perhaps more of an unknown than with warmbloods, but if you breed a good mare to a good stallion you're likely to get a good horse.

How true is this in reality? If the dam and sire are unrelated (Irish Draught/TB, connemara/TB, relaively unrelated TBs) what are the chances that the progeny is going to be good? With careful line-breeding, I think you have a better chance of "knowing" what you are going to get. But with a massive out-cross, what is the reality of what the get is like?

And I ask this because I am considering such an "out-cross" and it worries me that I might end up with just an average mutt :-(

Oh and congrats Mademoiselle. I hope it all goes smoothly.

grayarabpony
Mar. 1, 2008, 09:22 PM
The Irish have produced many of the world's best event horses with TB/ Irish Draft crosses. Crossbreeding is what has produced the German Riding pony and the modern warmblood. There aren't many TBs around who don't share common descendents all over the place, so there is unlikely to be any crosses that are that far apart. Even if they were widely unrelated, so what? What matters is whether or not the parents are good athletes and make a good match. A horse doesn't have to be inbred to pass on good traits.

PS. But personally I would not breed 2 horses of very different body types.

grayarabpony
Mar. 2, 2008, 09:01 AM
Stacie, was your question a real question? :lol:

pwynnnorman
Mar. 2, 2008, 09:13 AM
I think in reality one doesn't WANT to keep outcrossing. You want to find the cross that works and then concentrate it so it becomes a consistent line.

The problem is that "buckshot breeding" (which I've been watching over on the sporthorse breeders board in a discussion about horse mares crossed on pony stallions) is short-term. If you're in it for the short-term, that's fine. You scatter your bucks around, bank on quantity producing at least some quality (Pippa Funnel actually implied this--more or less--in a recent article in Eventing magazine), eat your losses and enjoy your winnings. I suspect that's what the average hobby breeder does and I'll bet it's a lot of fun.

But in the long run, logic alone would indicate that you just can't keep outcrossing because you'll never have anything predictable enough to offer the reassurances buyers increasingly want to find (and the younger you wanna sell, the more important this becomes). So in the long term, you have to find the cross that works consistently OR linebreed that cross to the point that it is no longer a cross...er, did I get any sense into that? It's in my head, but I'm not sure it's getting onto the screen.

grayarabpony
Mar. 2, 2008, 09:20 AM
Although linebreeding is not how you produced Theorodre O'Connor. And your kind of breeding is a lot riskier than breeding most people do, because you are breeding horses of different body types, ponies and horses. I'll have to look at some of the pedigrees of the top Irish event horses to see the extent of linebreeding, but I don't remember seeing much...

Anyway, you're never going to get a line that pops out one top horse after another. Never going to happen. The TB industry can't do it -- there are lots and lots of throwaways -- and the more you linebreed the more you have to deal with bad recessives. It's a fact of genetics you can't get away from.

Stacie
Mar. 2, 2008, 09:23 AM
Stacie, was your question a real question? :lol:

Absolutely. Because it's more than just structural anatomy. It's metabolism, muscle type, lung size, heart size, the nervous system, ability to recover and heal. And we know so little about the genes that produce these things beyond "knowing" that a particular stallion throws his endurance, or a mare always passes her superior suspension, or a stallion throws babies that can run and run and seem to never hurt themselves.
Two horses may appear to be the same, but genetically, the *reason* they have this trait or that trait can be completely different. So it *looks* the same, but is not. In line-breeding, you have a higher probability that 2 horses with a similar trait have the same genes that cause that trait to appear. With out crosses, even if the horses have a similar structure, I wonder. Is the gene pool sufficiently small, that it's not a big deal? Or by out-crossing do we take a large risk of diluting and losing desirable recessive traits?
In a sense that argues the earlier point about assessing a stallion's offspring. That also brings into question whether one can assess a stallion's usefulness for outcross if most of his foals are line-bred or are bred within a registry.

grayarabpony
Mar. 2, 2008, 09:41 AM
It doesn't matter whether the stallion has the same allele as another for a gene, as long as the desired trait is expressed.

Do you understand that you breed 2 related individuals the chances are higher that they'll inherit an undesirable recessive trait, thereby negating the good traits an animal has inherited? People just don't seem to get that the more you inbreed, when you concentrate the gene pool, you concentrate the good and the bad, not just the good.

I find it a little hard to believe your question was a real one, since the crosses you questioned has produced the top event horses in the world. I apologize in advance if I'm wrong.

The kind of control you and pwynnnorman are looking for would be best acheived someday in a laboratory, not with living horses. Not with performance horses that you want to live a long and productive life.

Edited to add: I think we need to know a lot more about these genes. Secretariat (a complete outcross, by the way), was considered a "failure" as a sire because he didn't produce a horse as good as himself, specifically a stallion as good as himself. We now know that the X factor, which certainly was a major factor in his success, was passed on exclusively to his fillies, which is why he was such a good broodmare sire. A horse that's racing perfection like Secretariat cannot replicate himself except through cloning. Man O' War was a much more successful sire than Secretariat. Why? A lot of it had to do with the fact that he was crossed with mares who had the X factor. No doubt Man O' War had it himself, but could only pass it on to his daughters. The mares enabled his sons, such as War Admiral, to possess it too.

Stacie
Mar. 2, 2008, 11:00 AM
I find it a little hard to believe your question was a real one, since the crosses you questioned has produced the top event horses in the world. I apologize in advance if I'm wrong.

And how many average horses? Obviously, it produces fine horses, that is why breeders keep breeding the crosses. But what are the stats of producing brilliant offspring compared to the percentage of brilliant offspring when line-breeding? Seriously? I think it is much harder to find a really great mating when crossing out and the prepotency of the stallion or mare becomes much much more important than when breeding within a line or even within an actual breed. Some registries are more breed-like genetically, than others, so mileage is going to vary.
At any rate, you said, breed two good horses and you will get a good horse. And I'm saying...maybe not so much.

grayarabpony
Mar. 2, 2008, 11:14 AM
You're saying not so much.... based on what? Most of the top eventers and show jumpers out there are half or 1/4 TB. So I find your argument to be very very weak. Do you think by linebreeding you'll create a better horse than Murphy Himself or Custom Made or Eagle Lion or Molokai or Nirvana II or Priceless ... ? well, you get the idea.

Line breeding can create problems. Instead of getting an average horse, which, if you breed quality horse to quality horse, you're unlikely to get, by the way, you may get something you can't use at all. Your argument is illogical. When pwynnnorman tried linebreeding she got 2 dwarfs. What happened to them? They didn't go on to win Pan Am gold.

Stacie
Mar. 2, 2008, 11:35 AM
grayarabpony,
I'm trying to have a discussion, and you are trying to have an argument. I'm not saying one thing OR the other. As you recall, my initial post, was, in fact, a question. A question you never answered. Statistically what are the percentages of really excellent progeny with out-crossing compared to line-breeding.
I am completely put off the topic, so you'll just have to argue with yourself from here forward.

grayarabpony
Mar. 2, 2008, 11:58 AM
I don't think you like the truthfulness of my answers :lol:, and could say in return that you're just trying to argue. Otherwise why did you say "At any rate, you said, breed two good horses and you will get a good horse. And I'm saying...maybe not so much" based on nothing at all. I'm sure you don't have any statisitics to cite either, but I can quote the pedigrees of top show jumpers and eventers.

Delkredere
Mar. 2, 2008, 12:28 PM
but this boy is so lovely

http://www.goldenventurefarm.com/

and---I AM NOT A FAN of paints...but this guy to me is just stunning.


Yes---he was. I thought it was a great match but this year he has a new rider. :no:

Thank you!! :) Just saw this post. I am Max's owner. Thought I would chime in to udpate things since there seems to be possible saddness about his new rider (via the use of the frown icon).

Max was shown by a very good young rider for a period of time. Unfortuantly, things became to hectic with everything else she was juggling for her to continue riding him. So the hunt began for another rider.

Found a jumper rider last summer and things went ok for a while but some bad riding that was not improving and temper issues caused me to end things for best interest of Mr. Max.

On the hunt again... A few months ago I put out an ad and interviewed several riders. The perfect one finally came. She is riding Max VERY well, undoing alot of the bad stuff that was done, and working on some things many of the other riders skipped over that he needed. Plus she listens to ME and what I want for him, and his training.

No rider has been like that so far. Every other one either "knew what they were doing" or had to use THEIR own trainers, etc... none of my adviced towards what I KNEW he needed were heard. Now that this rider is, he is progressing faster than with ANY other rider. I know Max better than anyone, and I know what he needs to move forward. I finally feel this time things are going to be great!!

This rider is very well rounded and capable of going out for a dressage, jumper, or event and handing them all! So far we have been to a couple jumper shows in 08' with 2 championships in the high jumper divisions. We plan on getting him back eventing as soon as we the season starts. We will start him back at Training level, with hopes for a prelim as soon as he is ready.

Here is a photo from the other days schooling jumper show with his new rider: http://phyxius.smugmug.com/gallery/4361098_whSNe#257024476

Keep an eye out for Max eventing this year in the MD, VA, PA area :)

Orkney96
Mar. 24, 2008, 02:11 PM
Happy Ending, RID
Touch of the Blues, RID. But you can't breed outside mares to him anymore (I don't think).

After reading through numbers of posts last year, I ended up buying a Touch of the Blues colt - who looks just like his dad! He is a saint, what a doll - and on top of that his damsire is a clover hill son by the name of The Pride of Gloster - I went to see him and liked him so much I bred my two mares - both eventers to him this year (a Ramiro Z gdaughter and a Seattle SLew Gdaughter). And then his owners were moving back to Ireland last month and I ended up buying him! and yes having a clover hill son he will compete again but will also stand for us this year. All I have cared to ride and breed before these guys was DutchWB and Holsteiner but seeing TOTB and TPOG made me a convert! You can not go wrong with either of those two stallions, although I do not think TOTB is standing to outside mares any more.

Lisa

Fancy That
Mar. 24, 2008, 02:29 PM
I'm just going off of "dream type/looks"

I'm a sucker for a really smooth-bodied, chunkster with alot of flash. I like em "thick", but still stylish and athletic :) Give me a wide chest, crested neck, smooth topline, big round-butt, well-sprung ribs and good bone with big hooves.


So my faves are

1. Redwine (too die for!)
www.grayfoxfarms.com/redwine2.htm

2. Popeye K (need I say more?)
http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/gphoto-g45722.html

The photos of Redwine make me drool all over my keyboard!

RioTex
May. 7, 2008, 04:14 PM
There is also a TB stallion that I am not sure where he went that I would love to track down. His name is Touch Tone. He is by Pick Up The Phone out of a El Baba mare.
He's back at JEH. I am going to see some of his 2005 crop that hasn't made it at the track.

vineyridge
May. 7, 2008, 06:50 PM
Lanciano xx
Roanoke xx
French Seventyfive xx
Watermill Rolex (event sire standing at Celle)

Eventer55
May. 8, 2008, 09:00 AM
I have a very nice Tb mare with hard as a rock feet, she's working hard and still no shoes needed. My gelding was the same. I love my Thoroughbreds, so I would go with A Fine Romance, Reputed Testimony, or if the owner would do live cover Sea Accounts. I've never seen any of them in person, but assuming they are all solid horses with good feet, any of them would be great.

I think Thoroughbred breeders need to breed for soundness of mind and body and we would not have as many problems. There's no reason to out-cross if you just breed to SOUND Thoroughbred horses. :yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:

facinated
May. 8, 2008, 12:00 PM
Silvio, who stands in Virginia has past, present, and future Olympic horses in all three disciplines in his pedigree. He was champion stallion at Dressage at Devon, and his half brother Shuterfly is rated as the #1 show jumper in the world.

Bensmom
May. 8, 2008, 04:05 PM
Cozzene (http://www.gainesway.com/stallions/listOfStallions/cozzene/default.asp) is a son of Caro. A tough turf horse who won the Breeders' Cup Mile, he's 28, still standing and his stud fee is 'private treaty'. We all know what that means.

Just as an aside, since my filly is just old enough and nice enough for me to be dreaming, but not planning,

I met and played with Cozzene Rolex weekend. :D We were allowed to visit Gainesway to meet Mr. Greeley (arranged very well with lots of persistence by Talkofthetown, who has a Mr. Greeley son. :D )

When we got done admiring Greeley, we were invited to wander at will through the stallion barns. :eek:

We petted Afleet Alex, Cozzene, Tapit, WhyWhyWhy and several others. :) :) :)

It stands out as one of the neatest things I've ever done. :)

JER -- I have the Gainesway brochure and I thought it listed an amount for Cozzene, but I may be misremembering. He had an amazing Prescence about him. :)

Libby (who loves Fred, Reputed Testamony, State of the Art, especially since I am borrowing a lovely State of the Art son now and think he is great! AND, I have totally fallen in LOVE with Max, and immediately started scheming to borrow a mare to breed. heehee)

jhodkin
May. 9, 2008, 10:34 AM
I also like the look and pedigree of this guy too for my mare http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk/Future_Illusion1.htm

Thanks for the interest in my boy, it's lovely you're considering him. He is currently in quarantine having his semen frozen for worldwide shipment (ready end of this month) and I was wondering if you guys had any suggestions for me on how best to promote my guy in America?

He's had a lot of interest this year in the UK (which has been his first public stud season as he is still only rising 4 this year), but then his sire is perhaps far better known here and certainly the dam line would be better known here. I was toying with some different approaches, and whilst I've only given limited concessions to breeders with top performance mares in the UK, I am considering perhaps some sort of first season 'deal' for the States. Perhaps something like:
- First insemination - stud fee free of charge
- 2nd insemination - $100
- 3rd insemination - $250
- 4th insemination - $250

His stud fee in the UK is £650 which I am planning to translate as $1000 for his normal stud fee. I thought perhaps a sliding scale like this would give clients a bit of confidence that they could get him free of charge (if there mare goes in foal first time), and if it takes 2 cycles, it's only cost $100. If it takes more cycles (even up to 4) it is still a lot less than his normal stud fee.

I don't know what you guys think - whether it's a good or a bad idea, but I'd love to hear your views. I'm trying to balance giving you guys a good deal, with the practical costs of the quarantine/freezing, shipping to the USA, and storage charges which I will obviously incur. I'd also like to know whether you think I would get the good mares, or whether I might only get the lower end mares? I deliberately priced Louis in the upper end for young stallions and it has worked in the UK as far as getting good mares and reducing the number of lower level type mares. I don't want that to sound snobby, it's certainly not meant to be, but especially in his early years at stud, I'm trying to keep the standard of mares as high as possible, as people will start judging him on his offspring as they appear.

Perhaps I should start a new thread and ask for some suggestions? Any ideas welcomed!

clivers
May. 9, 2008, 08:51 PM
Alphabet Soup (http://www.adenastallions.com/stallions/stallion.aspx?id=Alphabet_Soup), BC Classic-winning (he beat Cigar) son of Cozzene, is a relative bargain at $10,000. This horse was really versatile on the track and has the typical Caro line look.

.


JER, believe it or not, young horses by Alphabet soup are frequently offered for sale for very reasonable prices through Adena's retirement program. Frank Stronach (owner) retires/rehomes all of his racehorses. Here's the website...you may want to check out "Record Buster" (cute!):
http://www.adenaretirement.com/index.html

JER
May. 10, 2008, 12:40 AM
JER, believe it or not, young horses by Alphabet soup are frequently offered for sale for very reasonable prices through Adena's retirement program. Frank Stronach (owner) retires/rehomes all of his racehorses. Here's the website...you may want to check out "Record Buster" (cute!):
http://www.adenaretirement.com/index.html

Record Buster is very attractive - actually, he's proof that solid, un-frail TBs are still out there.

I think he looks like the perfect field hunter.

Bensmom, you're so lucky! Cozzene was a very cool horse on the track -- beautiful gallop too. He's one of the only sons of Caro left in the US; I know With Approval is in the UK and he's also in his 20s. It's a great line for soundness and jumping ability.

Bensmom
May. 10, 2008, 01:20 AM
JER -- we did feel very lucky. As we walked around the fountain at Gainesway, I came upon a headstone for In Reality.

I got goosebumps -- he is Buzzmonster's grandsire, and it just seemed so cool to see this homage to all these great horses in one place. :)

clivers -- thanks for the link to Adena's retirement program! I had heard that Stronach believed in re-homing his horses, but I never thought to check out the website to see if they had an official program. What a fantastic idea! :D

Carol Ames
May. 10, 2008, 01:57 PM
It depends of course ,on the mare,:winkgrin: but, a ssuming I had a mare who liked eventing i 'd go to Windfall,:yes:or,if any semen were available, Summer :)song:yes:

Carol Ames
May. 10, 2008, 02:22 PM
Where is Touch of the Blues standing? What have they done with him other than breed?:confused:
It

WindyIsles
May. 10, 2008, 03:24 PM
Just as an aside, since my filly is just old enough and nice enough for me to be dreaming, but not planning,

I met and played with Cozzene Rolex weekend. :D We were allowed to visit Gainesway to meet Mr. Greeley (arranged very well with lots of persistence by Talkofthetown, who has a Mr. Greeley son. :D )

When we got done admiring Greeley, we were invited to wander at will through the stallion barns. :eek:

We petted Afleet Alex, Cozzene, Tapit, WhyWhyWhy and several others. :) :) :)

It stands out as one of the neatest things I've ever done. :)

JER -- I have the Gainesway brochure and I thought it listed an amount for Cozzene, but I may be misremembering. He had an amazing Prescence about him. :)

Libby (who loves Fred, Reputed Testamony, State of the Art, especially since I am borrowing a lovely State of the Art son now and think he is great! AND, I have totally fallen in LOVE with Max, and immediately started scheming to borrow a mare to breed. heehee)

LOVE Cozzene.

We have a Mr. Greeley daughter she's a race broodie and in foal to Powerscourt :yes:

Waterwitch
May. 10, 2008, 03:45 PM
Where is Touch of the Blues standing? What have they done with him other than breed?:confused:
It

Touch of the Blues stands in Kansas at Manu Forti Farms (http://www.manufortifarms.com/stalliontotb.htm). He is probably most well known as a successful sire of RID stallions (8 at last count!), but he did compete in England. His competition results can be found on the British Eventing website:

http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/Events/Results.aspx?HorseId=21976&section=000100010018

camohn
May. 10, 2008, 04:02 PM
Lanciano xx
Roanoke xx
French Seventyfive xx
Watermill Rolex (event sire standing at Celle)
Roanoke moved to the midwest with a big studfee drop last year....he can be had cheap now!!

For TB stallions my choice would be Not For Love.....even if I am generally Anti Mr. Prospector...but at a 25K fee not happening!!

For WBs I loff Florett and I DO have frozen semen for him....just not the right mare. All my mares are 17+ now and not good frozen candidates to risk it on. I have to wait til one of my fillies is a bit older to use it on. I am thinking my now 2 YO TB filly will see it next year at 3......get preggo/start lightly u/s at 3 and then go on to be a riding horse for a while after just 1 foal.

AdAblurr02
May. 10, 2008, 04:31 PM
Where is Touch of the Blues standing? What have they done with him other than breed?:confused:
It

Flynn was an eventer in England before his importation. Im' pretty sure he was jumped a bit here in the US, and did exhibitions for the breed etc - a friend told me of bing on jump placing duty, and watching him warm up over five-foot fences.... she does now have two of his get!
At age 21 now, he's earned a retirement, I'd say. He's one of my personal favorite RID stallions, and always has been!
http://manufortifarms.com/stalliontotb.htm

He is no longer standing at public stud, to my knowledge. Fortunately he has a legacy of excellent RID sons (and daughters) to carry on.

Granada
May. 10, 2008, 11:40 PM
I'll Preface this by saying I'm not breeding any mares any time soon if ever. But I like this TB stallion because he's a 3/4 sib to mine, and I think he's pretty :winkgrin::lol:

Kiridashi (http://www.pedigreequery.com/kiridashi)

Kiridashi winning Prince of Wales Stakes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJGU14wuF3A) His face looks just like my horse at the end. Plus I love riding high headed horses esp when they are galloping.

I'm not saying he'd be a good candidate to breed for sport, but I'd like to find one of his OTTB babies. I think this one looks interesting: Pretty Swanky (http://www.pedigreequery.com/pretty+swanky) He's still racing as an 8yo:)

I enjoyed looking at all the stallion pics and info. Thanks for posting!

XXreiningBabeXX
May. 11, 2008, 09:50 AM
I owuld love to have a foal witht he sire of Hollywood Dunnit

Dressage_Diva333
Aug. 6, 2008, 08:08 PM
I would LOVE to have a foal by Donnerhall, out of my Pilgrim/Top Light xx mare. Unfortunatly with her questionable uterine health, and Donnerhall's very poor semen quality, that will remain a dream.

I am considering an embryo transfer Dauphin foal from her next year though :)