View Full Version : Partnerships????????
Feb. 20, 2008, 08:27 PM
Hope some of y'all can help me... I found a trainer that is interested in working with my filly... I have to send her down to him for 4-6 weeks for a evaluation... going to cost me some $$$$$$ (I am not asking anyone on here for money!!!) He wants to get x-rays done on her knees by the 15th of april and then have me send her down there for evaluation time... I was not sure if I could come up with that money that quick... JUMP FOWARD.......
I have 4 people that are interested in owning a share of her... 10% in return they would help fund her trip down to FL... here's what didn't sound right to me... if the trainer doesn't see potential, he is going to send her back to me... and I am suppose to pay back the money these guys invested??? is this the norm?? to me it sounds funny because if you invest money in the stock market and you loose, you don't get that money back! this is a risk to me and it could or could not pay off!! what do you think??
Feb. 20, 2008, 09:17 PM
That's not a partnership, that's a loan. I wouldn't go for it. Is the filly under saddle now? Are the 4 people some friends of yours of someone referred to you by the trainer? Why are you sending her away - why not work locally where you can keep an eye on things? There are young horse trainers all over the east coast of the US.
Feb. 20, 2008, 09:26 PM
No these aren't people I know, my dad knows them... he works with them... I am sending her down to FL because, a good friend of mine recommended him... yes, she is broke and is excercising lightly right now...
On the Farm
Feb. 20, 2008, 09:32 PM
I wouldn't say this is the norm, however I would say that your trainer is trying hard to get your horse down there. Either way, you're going to lose 10% of your horse or the cost of a couple of van rides. I wouldn't take a deal like that.
That being said, allow me to give you some advice which is the same type of advice that I've given more than a couple of people who've expressed to me an interest in going racing--if you have to sweat the price of x-rays, as well as the cost of a van trip, I would certainly reevaluate whether you're financially ready to enter such an endeavor. Regardless of the level, racing is not a cheap endeavor and the people I've witnessed who tried to play it that way quickly became disappointed and disillusioned.
Feb. 20, 2008, 09:34 PM
Under the circumstances, a loan might be a good deal, especially if it is a no interest loan (zero interest). You have to decide that. Be sure to have an attorney draw up a contract & attempt to put EVERY eventuality into writing & get everyone to sign. (I would not deal with some strangers recommended by the trainer!)
Feb. 20, 2008, 09:43 PM
This trainer did not recommend these people... my dad knows them I and am guessing he told them about it... The trainer is a friend of a friend who owes me a favor ( I took a horse and rehabed him for free )... so the training fees will be cut big time! I can come up with the money I have lots of things I am selling and I am starting a new job so I will have plenty... the problem is coming up with it that quick! the x-rays aren't a problem, and I will be trailering her down there... she is my baby and I want to see where she is going and meet the trainer. I am not hell bend on her being a race horse, but I have been told she needs a chance, and I certainly don't mind giving her one... if this trainer doesn't see potential that is going to be worth my while then I will turn her into a show horse (she is a super nice mover)... I was just curious about the way this "deal" sounded... I DO NOT WANT TO SELL THIS FILLY, she is very dear to me and I would through myself infront of a bus for her :yes:... So I was a little concerned with the idea of someone else that I don't know owning a part of her!
Feb. 20, 2008, 09:47 PM
Just curious. What are your plans for the horse if after 4-6 weeks the trainer loves her and wants to go on with her? I am thinking if you can't afford the 6 weeks, how are you going to afford the 6 months if things go well? Maybe you should think about selling them 50% of the horse in exchange for all training expenses from here on out. Otherwise it sounds like you are going to be unable to proceed no matter what the outcome.
What is her breeding and how did her dam run? Has her dam produced any runners?
Feb. 20, 2008, 09:48 PM
Like mentioned above, I think shipping her down there will be a pittance compared to the costs involved if she goes into full training. Most trainers in Florida are what? $50-$75 per day! If the perspective partners are getting 10% of your horse for only the shipping costs, they are getting a good deal. You can expect to invest $6k-$10k in your racehorse before she ever makes a start, in the training fees, vet fees, farrier, etc.
You need to draw up a full business plan with all the expenses, not just shipping, and see how the partners and you feel about the possible loss of return on your entire investment.
Feb. 20, 2008, 09:54 PM
The training fees if the trainer likes her are not a problem!! I have worked this out already with my new job, and with the deal I am working out with the trainer this won't be a problem... but he is not cutting me a deal on the 4-6 weeks for the evaluation... since he doesn't know if she is going to be any good... A friend of mine owes me and this is how he is repaying me... I was unable to get ahold of him and Charlsie tonight so I thought I would post on here to see what y'all thought..
She is out of Missy Kiri and by Halo's Stride... this the first offspring for both of them.
Feb. 20, 2008, 10:52 PM
Man what a deal they're getting! Invest in a sure thing! Either they invest and take the risk same as you , or they don't. PERIOD. no giving back the money. You already own the horse...personally I wouldn't be in a partnership with a horse. Don't want someone else telling me what I can or can't do. What if they want to put the horse in a cheap claimer to get rid of it, and you don't??
Feb. 21, 2008, 10:48 AM
If they want their money back if she flops, will they want it all back if she gets hurt? Or when she retires? When you invest in a racehorse, you don't get a refund if the horse lacks talent.
That said, 4 -6 weeks is not much time to tell whether she has any talent. She would have to be BAD to know anything by then. Really, it's hard to know if a horse has any talent until they race a couple of times. But, a horse coming off the farm will need a lot of schooling and legging up. She should gallop at least 30 days prior to breezing a 1/4. Unless she physically can't hold up to training, you're not going to know much in 6 weeks. Ninety days is a better mark. Not trying to get into your business, but you may want to talk to the trainer and get a better timeline. And, be sure to find out what kind of facility he has - is he on the farm or at a training center? You need to make sure he has the facilities to get her truly race ready or you will be wasting time and money. You are 100% correct in taking her there yourself.
Feb. 21, 2008, 11:06 AM
The trainers name is Dan Hurtak... do you know anything about his facility??? I only know what my friend has told me and what Mr. Hurtak has told me!
Feb. 21, 2008, 12:03 PM
Well I had a long detailed response typed in and lost it. :mad:
I don't know Hurtak, but I did look him up for you. He has good stats and runs at Gulfstream and Calder. He is mainly a claiming guy and mostly runs a private barn for his own stock. He doesn't appear to have many taken off of him, which may or may not be a good sign. He isn't afraid to take horses off the top trainers and he has good riders ride for him (a good sign). I looked at a couple of his claims and he improves some and doesn't others. The drawback to a private barn is that your horse will likely pay his feed bill and may play second fiddle to his. The upside is that you aren't paying for frills, he knows how to get the job done inexpensively and training horses is his business.
A couple of things I would talk to him about: he runs at top tier tracks. What if your filly has talent, but not GP or CRC talent and would be a better fit at say, Tampa? Can he be upfront with you? Will he recommend someone else?
Where is he taking her? Will he start her at the track (unlikely)? If not, and if no one here knows his facility first hand you might want to ask the following:
What kind of track do you have? How long, do you have gates, what surface?
How many riders do you have? Can you work her in company? Do you have other young horses to work her with? How often will she go to the track?
Can she get her gate card and official works at your facility? If not, how much will it cost to ship her where she can? Or, will you wait until she is on the track to get that done?
I'm under the impression he is cutting you a deal. If he's not, don't be afraid to take her to someone who stats babies to save some money until she is ready to go to the track.
Feb. 22, 2008, 02:09 PM
I have several friends that are in partnerships on horses. In these partnerships everything is split equally amoung the partners from money earned to money spent.
There is one group of my lady friends there are 6 of them and they are in partnerships on two horses that they co- own together. They just enjoy going to the track on Saturday's watching their horses train and going to lunch afterwards. They also love getting together at the racing and having dinner in the club house when the horse races.
These lady's arent in the partnerships for the $$$ they are in it sort of as a social thing. It just gives them a good excuse to get together every week and talk horse.
But I do have other friends that are in partnerships to make $$$. You have to be careful though make sure you get a partnership agreement (you can probably get one at your race tracks HBPA office or Breeders Office) signed by all party's involved and list what % each person is going to pay for the horses training, and other expenses. As well as what % each partner will recieve from the money earned when the horse starts racing.
Best of luck my friend...
Barn Brats Horse Themed Glassware
Feb. 22, 2008, 04:47 PM
If you get into an actual partnership, then there are general partners & limited partners. I'm sure an attorney could give you more details & a better definition, but, in a simple kind of way, the difference is this: general partners are responsible for helping to make decisions & limited partners are not; general partners must put up more money if more money is needed but limited partners make their initial buy in (monetary contribution) & do not contribute more.
Now you need to get more & better info from an attorney or someone on this board can come in & correct me.
Feb. 22, 2008, 06:31 PM
I'm going to go completly off topic sort of...
Besideds having the money to fund a racehorse... you really need to ask yourself a few questions...
As I read the part of your post that says this filly is really dear to you, and you would throw yourself in front of a bus for her.... I have to ask you if you could live with yourself if your plans to race her caused her severe injury?
I know horses can injure themselves in a field,show ring, etc... but when we load them in the gate on race day the chances of injury greatly increase... just something to think about!
Feb. 23, 2008, 12:12 AM
I am not hell bend on her being a race horse, but I have been told she needs a chance, and I certainly don't mind giving her one...
Who told you that your filly NEEDS a chance? Was it someone who knows anything about racehorses? Since you yourself are "not hell bend (sic) on her being a race horse" I think this whole endeavor sounds risky and financially ill-advised. Your filly can reach her potential in any number of ways and she (and you) would probably be happier if she stayed home and became a show horse.
Feb. 24, 2008, 02:54 AM
I have had several friends that are in the "racing business" they no longer breed and train but still own and participate and they have told me to give her a chance..
By me saying "I am not hell bent" on her being a race horse I meant that I am not going to throw her out if she isn't fast.. I will bring her home and show her or breed her..
Feb. 24, 2008, 09:23 AM
I again am being biased since both Halo's Stride and Missy Kiri are both here at the moment (and Missy is about to foal) but I do think your filly should get a chance to run but I dont think 6 weeks is enough time. I have a filly currently at Bowie and until she has a couple of starts under her belt I dont think its fair to give up on her. Its all a learning curve for babies and horses in general..some are morning glories and look great in the morning galloping and works and then are awful in a race and some are the exact opposite. We also have a colt who the trainer lovingly calls Spook..he is scared of his own shadow but has the breeding so we are going forward on him and will see what happens.
As far as the partnership goes heck no would I give the $$ back...if you need partners get everything in writing, 100% of investment is at risk and they pay a monthly portion of the expenses. Make sure everything is in writing, what happens if she needs a month or 6 months off, who pays what, who gets what if she is claimed, retired, ect. I have turned away several partners on my 2yr old colt because they want him in training now, want a guarantee of return ect..noway he is a late bloomer and will get broke and ready in late fall.
I would google racing partnerships and look at their models, you can find many of the contracts online without going further and see what they offer.
Apr. 13, 2008, 07:26 PM
xraying the knees to see if there closed is good that would be the first start but ok to have filly in light training as far as a number of partners is good or can be bad either way pricing a young horse without having high dollar breeding can bring the wrong type of partners better if you can carry the load for the first part aleast until your filly works about a 3/8 if inpressive the value would be more and more inpressive and you would get a real partnership not one you question yourself this is not a partnership it is a favor that doesn't usually work and if there friends to your dad thats another part that would be hard sorry business is bussiness