Stringhalt

[Centuree]

Hi there,
I am interested in finding out more information about this strange condition. I know the dictionary definition, and what it does, but I would like to hear your stories about stringhalt.

Is there any thing one can do to improve it? (other than the surgery to remove the tendon, which didn't work with this horse)

Have any of your horses with stringhalt gone on to be competition horses?

How do you go about picking out the hind leg of a horse with stringhalt?

Any information that you have experienced regarding stringhalt would be of great use to me. thanks a lot.

[findeight]

Stringhalt is an old term used to describe an assortment of conditions effecting the hind leg, particularly stifle related issues.

The only time I ever heard that term used was in a Saddlebred barn where is was fairly common in the older gaited horses as they piled on the competition miles. I didn't own any of them so no idea what they did with that or what the more specific diagnosis may have been...actually this was a good 25 years ago and we did not have the diagnostics available.

For your question...can you be a little more specific about exactly what symptoms you are observing? What has the vet said? Have you had x rays or ultra sound?

[Centuree]

I am a volunteer with a non-profit, and just acquired the horse yesterday. At the walk he lifts one hind leg unusually high. He is a TB that is off the track. At the trot and canter you can barely see it.

Anyways, stringhalt, aka shivers, is a neuromuscular disorder if I am correct. However, I am very ignorant to this condition as I have never seen it before, and am interested to know if there is anything that can help.

Would x-rays/ultrasound help diagnose what is going on? I didn't think so since I thought it was a neuromuscular problem, but if I am incorrect, please fill me in. thanks a lot.

[findeight]

I never heard the term used to describe a neuromuscular condition but, have to say, never heard it used much at all and not for at lease 20 years.

Maybe I am mistaken but I don't think it has anything to do with "shivers" either.?

Only saw it on those ASBs and, like you observe here, it only bothered them at a walk. I know that trainer did x rays of the stifle area and adjusted the shoeing in back-a few got rested. Wish I could say more but I just don't know. i do recall once it occured it was a continuing issue-did not go away.

On this one...any number of things may be affecting that leg including injury. maybe ask over on the Racing Forum since this is what they said on the track? Maybe more common over there and some may have more to say?

[shawneeAcres]

Stringhalt and shivers, although similar type things are not really the exact same condition. I have owned a hrose with stringhalt. Stringhalt is not painful and is involuntary the horse does not know he is doing the high steppng, jerking motion. The horse I owned did it pretty much only at the walk, we did do the surgery which was 90% effective. He did compete both before and after the surgery successfully in hunters.

[Centuree]

Thanks a lot guys. I'll post the same question over on the race forum then too.

This horse had some sort of tendon removed; however, the surgery was ineffective and he still steps very high on his one leg. Although, I really don't know the history or anything.

Shawneeacres, is this the same procedure that your horse had done? Can you elaborate a bit more on the type of surgery done on you rhorse. thanks a lot.

[shawneeAcres]

yes same surgery, it is not always effective according to vet but worked well on my horse.

[jennywho]

There are many people out there more knowledgable than me, but I do have a 24yo TB mare with stringhalt. She developed it seemingly overnight last summer. It is very pronounced at the walk, noticable at the trot and absent at the canter. It does not seem to be painful or bothersome to her and since she was retired 2 years ago due to arthritis, it hasn't affected her status as pasture puff.

There seems to be two main causes of stringhalt, one is nutritional and the other is related to injury.

On the nutritional side I have read both that it may be a E-SE imbalance or a Mg deficency.

Fil (my mare) seems to be injury related. Around the time she was 15 she got kicked and developed a huge hematoma on her gaskin. The hematoma healed, but left a dent. The vet seems to think that there was some nerve damage that led her to develop stringhalt 8 years later.

I did not look into surgery much as it wasn't an option due to Fil's age, but I did read that it's success rate is questionable and that a horse may re-develop stringhalt even if it is "cured" temporarily due to surgery.

Hope this helps some.

[Katy Watts]

Look in your pasture for Hypochoeris radicata (called also flatweed, catsear).
picture at:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Hypochoeris_radicata_2.jpg

This time of year it will be a flat rosette on the ground. There's lots around Vancouver.
It has a neurotoxin that causes stringhalt.

[jack mac]

There are two types of stringhalts true & toxic both are interrupted & delayed signals sent & received along the spinal cord from the brain to & from the hindquarters, toxic stringhalts if recognised early & the horse removed from the offending pasture & plants & given a mild diuretic for a few days (sodium acid citrate) & electralites as well as magnesium sulfate in there drinking water will recover depending on the nerve damage caused by the toxin, true stringhalts on the other hand is progressive magnesium sulfate & electrolytes will help with the symptoms but will not cure it i have found Certain breeds to be more prone to it then others which suggests a genetic link in true stringhalts .

[crazy gray horse]

My daughter lessons on a horse with stringhalt. He's in his mid-teens and I'm not sure how long he's had it. He was once an A/O jumper and was given to the barn a year or two ago when the owner bought a new horse. He's used regularly in jumping lessons - my daughter jumps 2'6" on him. He does great flying changes. However, due to the stringhalt small circles are difficult.

When picking his feet, it would appear that he is going to kick - but because he has an involuntary jerking motion he just has trouble raising his foot and holding it. You just have to be aware of it and allow him to adjust his foot to where it's comfortable. Additionally, when she leads him off - the first step or two need to be slow as it looks like his leg "sticks". He takes a very high step first, then a slightly smaller step and then he's ok to walk on. It is very pronounced at the walk, noticable at the trot and slightly perceptible at the canter.

He doesn't seem to be bothered at all, his handler just needs to be aware of his needs. He's a great horse and my daughter enjoys riding him.

[Centuree]

Thanks guys - I am pretty sure it didn't happen due to toxicity as he was a racehorse confined to a stall when the condition began. He didn't have any type of injury that they know about either.

I have heard that supplementing magnesium and vitamin E is helpful along with a high fat diet. Anyone have experience with this? I am just concerned he's going to get muscle sore in his hindquarters from lifting up his leg so high.

[daisyduke]

My mare has a very mild case of stringhalt. Very noticeable when picking up her hind feet. It does appear that she is going to kick and it sticks for a moment. When first warming up in a walk it is noticeable and thereafter no signs of it in the trot or canter. I believe hers is injury related as she is an OTTB. It has not progressed at all in the last 6 years I have owned her.

[jack mac]

Thanks guys - I am pretty sure it didn't happen due to toxicity as he was a racehorse confined to a stall when the condition began. He didn't have any type of injury that they know about either.

I have heard that supplementing magnesium and vitamin E is helpful along with a high fat diet. Anyone have experience with this? I am just concerned he's going to get muscle sore in his hindquarters from lifting up his leg so high.with the magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts) do not over do it, if the horse starts to scour then there getting to much, with true stringhalt i have found that in a lot of cases the nerve damage is in the area of the sacrale & it is beneficial to massage in that area on a regular bases right were the loins & the croup meets i find a tennis ball rolled on that area with the palm of my hand works wonders :)

[Centuree]

What do you mean by scour? (in regards to magnesium sulfate)

And thanks for the massaging suggestion, I will definitely try that as well.

I know that stringhalt, shivers, EPSM are common in draft horses, and the horse that I have is a ginormous TB. Are these conditions more likely in large horses?

[grayarabs]

There is an elderly TW gelding at our barn with stringhalt. Had the surgery. Did not help.
I researched - found info by Dr. Valentine - at Rural Heritage. Perhaps the diet she suggests would help? You might look for her website - lots of info.

[SMF11]

I have a 24 year old morgan with stringhalt. There is a lot of misinformation out there about the condition. Jack Mac got it right. does your horse walk out of it, or does the leg keep getting snapped up high? With stringhalt the leg snaps up high, but then they walk out of it and my horse was unaffected at all gaits after those first steps. He was a successful dressage horse, so could DEFINITELY compete with this condition. He had the stringhalt ever since he came to my trainer's barn, when he was 11.

Now for the bad news, at least for me. The condition does gradually worsen and at this point we are very close to having to put the horse down because of the stringhalt. He has a hard-to-impossible time starting up walking now, even to be fed or to get water or hay. His brain sends the signal to walk, but the leg can't be picked up. It helps when I lead him (my human Dr. said it sounded like Parkinsons disease where people can't start up walking on their own but can walk when they follow a line on the floor). Also, he is snapping his leg up so high that he has to hop a few times on the other hind leg or he will fall over. The cold weather seems to make the condition worse, so I'm hoping we can nurse him along for another month or so. But if he falls he'll have to be euthanized (because I'm afraid he'll be injured or will not be able to get up etc). Even if I get him through this winter, I know I will definitely have to put him down before next winter.

Sorry this is so long, but no one I know (my vet, my trainer etc) knew that stringhalt could progress to a point where it is the reason to euthanize a horse. Everyone thought it was just a condition the horse could live with forever. That said, this horse has had it a long time and it is only now that it is a problem for him.

I second what others have said about managing the condition -- just be aware when picking up the hind leg to pick out the hoof etc.

It is not a problem until the later years, if then.

[Lynnaya]

I had a 25 yr old TB gelding with stringhalt. I found that massage and stretching helped the most. Regular massage - you can do a few minutes everyday, no need to hire a "pro" every week - and stretching everyday. I would stretch is leg forward, back, under his belly and to the side a little. As much as he could handle without wobbling. As for hoof picking, I would signal him to pick up by tickling his fetlock he would pick up his foot "adjust" and then hold his foot where he was comfortable for me to pick. We worked that system out gradually. Make sure your farrier is gentle about this too. My farrier was awesome, he would work in the oddest positions to cater to my boy. He was a very successful dressage horse and prior to my owning him he was a very competitive jumper. WHen I had him he would still jump anything and would do anything my dressage coach and I would ask for in the arena. He never had any trouble. Start some massage and stretching, and a good joint supplement can never hurt. I don't feel this limited my horse in any ways.

[Centuree]

Thanks again - well I just barely got this guy, but from what I can tell thus far, his first few steps are the worst, but at the walk he almost always lifts up that leg a little higher than the other. However he has been a racehorse all his life up till now, so perhaps field turnout will help. Once my field dries out, I'll be putting him out there.

I am slowly starting to introduce him to a highfat diet, to see if this will make a difference. My vet said it was a longshot, but its worth a try.

Thanks for the recommendation of massaging him and stretching the leg. This is something that I can definitely do every day. As per picking out his foot, I was nervous about it at first, but it has become apparent he has had very good care because he picked up that foot before I even got to it, and allowed me to stretch it back and clean the foot.

I have also noticed this guy is not lying down to sleep at night, is this a common phenomenon with horses who have stringhalt? Poor guy, wish he could lie down and give his hindquarters a break, but perhaps it is too hard for him to get back up again? Or, he is so big, that he has probably gotten cast in stalls, and doesn't want to lie down for that reason?

[SMF11]

I don't know why your horse isn't lying down, but I don't think it has anything to do with the stringhalt. My Morgan lies down, and rolls and doesn't seem to have a particularly hard time getting back up even though his stringhalt has gotten quite bad lately.

[jack mac]

What do you mean by scour? (in regards to magnesium sulfate)

And thanks for the massaging suggestion, I will definitely try that as well.

I know that stringhalt, shivers, EPSM are common in draft horses, and the horse that I have is a ginormous TB. Are these conditions more likely in large horses?sorry i was preoccupied on another thread spreading my warmth & charm as only jack knows how lol "scour" it means watery lose motions from the bowl, i have found that Hanoverian & holsten's seem to develop stringhalt genetically, more so in grays. But any horse that has had to strain, be it galloped hard or jumped hard will delevop it. The problem with the term stringhalt is it only reflects the representation of the visual aspect of the jerking movement being kindred to the jerky movements of the legs of a stringed puppet, cause can be anything that will damage, pinch the spinal cord or interfere with the singles sent. Be it toxic,mineral or chemical i have seen cows developed it after carving as well as eating toxic plants.

[JB]

Thanks again - well I just barely got this guy, but from what I can tell thus far, his first few steps are the worst, but at the walk he almost always lifts up that leg a little higher than the other.

Are you sure he's not having a locking stifle issue? When it unlocks quickly, it can cause the leg to jerk up, since the muscles were contracting to try to get the left lifted, harder and harder, until BAM it unlocks and the leg flies. That makes more sense, given the "first few steps are the worst", than stringhalt. Continued locking or heavy catching can make the stifle sore and the horse move the leg in a more careful, controlled, and higher manner for a bit.

[jenkoby]

I have a mare with stinghalt right now that came on suddenly one day when I brought her in. I've had the vet out 3 times and been on the phone with him a lot. We have tried a number of things and he is basically scratching his head. As another poster said, there is not much known about this.

Anyway, at the same time we tested her for Cushings and she has it. So we started her on pergolide about 2 weeks ago. I'm not sure if it is related, but it certainly can't help her. She has trouble getting started the first couple of steps but then does okay. It is pathetic to watch her and I think this compounded with all of her arthritis in her front legs, might finally be the end for her. She loves to roll and rarely does this anymore so I feel bad for her.

I am slowly changing her diet and will add the supplements as well. I will try the messaging and I was also going to try some chiro work as well. It's so frustrating to watch them decline as they age. She is a great horse and I will do what I can for her but don't want her to suffer. I'm hoping she can make it to warmer weather. I don't think this cold helps.

[Centuree]

Are you sure he's not having a locking stifle issue? When it unlocks quickly, it can cause the leg to jerk up, since the muscles were contracting to try to get the left lifted, harder and harder, until BAM it unlocks and the leg flies. That makes more sense, given the "first few steps are the worst", than stringhalt. Continued locking or heavy catching can make the stifle sore and the horse move the leg in a more careful, controlled, and higher manner for a bit.

No, I'm pretty sure its stringhalt. He never walks completely normal, its just his first step or two after standing awhile are higher and jerkier than after he is warmed up. However this guy jerks the leg up and to the side, so not sure what that means either.

[Centuree]

I don't know why your horse isn't lying down, but I don't think it has anything to do with the stringhalt. My Morgan lies down, and rolls and doesn't seem to have a particularly hard time getting back up even though his stringhalt has gotten quite bad lately.

Okay, thanks for sharing that. Its probably just because he is so big, he's worried about being cast. Cant wait to let him out in the field.

And Jenkoby, I sympathize with you, it is so frustrating to see them suffer. Good luck with your mare, I hope you can figure something out. I am slowly introducing a high fat, low carb diet, supplementing with vitamin E and magnesium sulfate. I'll let you know if I notice a difference.

[jack mac]

one easy way to tell if your horse has stringhalts find a step incline then back him up it, if he can walk backwards up the incline properly or at all he has stringhalts, some horses will develop it more in one hind leg then the other or only in one leg, there is another condition i refer to as staggers were by the horse staggers sways in the hind end which some times incorporates a involuntary head nodding episodes, it is all so caused by toxins be it plant or from continually eating lead paints or from being feed certain herbs as a calming agent or excessive amounts of garlic which most people are unaware is toxic to horses & dogs or in most of the cases mold & fungus growing on pasture, were it differs greatly from stringhalts it is a whole lose of coordination with the appearance of the horses eye to look glassey & non coherent :)

[Rick Burten]

But any horse that has had to strain, be it galloped hard or jumped hard will delevop it.
Demonstrably untrue.

[SMF11]

Good lord!

I have never heard of stringhalt being caused by an injury . . . it is a neurological condition whereby the signal from the brain to lift the leg is somehow interrupted and doesn't reach the leg. Two vets explained it to me that way and I did extensive research on the topic when I first got my horse several years ago. I have yet to meet anyone with *wide* knowledge of the condition because it is so uncommon.

[Centuree]

Jack, he can back up fairly well. And there is no nodding of his head or any loss of coordination, he just lifts up his one leg high and to the side.

SMF11 - can you share some of what you have found in regards to the condition. Was there anything your vet told you that you could do to alleviate the condition?

Thanks

[jack mac]

Demonstrably untrue. on second thoughts lets here about all YOUR vast experience of stringhalt cases you have witness & had to deal with over the years Rick & categorical say that horses that are consistently straining to power to there fullest will not over prolonged time of such activity's not develop some form of stringhalt acute or chronic from it. I'm all ears Rick please indulge & enlighten us with your brilliance & extensive knowledge on the subject, I'm looking forward to a good laugh:yes:

[jack mac]

Good lord!

I have never heard of stringhalt being caused by an injury . . . it is a neurological condition whereby the signal from the brain to lift the leg is somehow interrupted and doesn't reach the leg. Two vets explained it to me that way and I did extensive research on the topic when I first got my horse several years ago. I have yet to meet anyone with *wide* knowledge of the condition because it is so uncommon.if you have shod & have ridden & cut up enough retired Show Jumpers & Gallopers in your life time as i have then one see's & realizes that prolonged excessive straining on the hide quarters, can cause damage to the lumbar vertebrae interfering with the spinal cord & the signals transmitted along it . PS I'm looking forwards to rick burtens dismissal of that not being the case in some horses ;)it should be an interesting post by rick

[jack mac]

Jack, he can back up fairly well. And there is no nodding of his head or any loss of coordination, he just lifts up his one leg high and to the side.

SMF11 - can you share some of what you have found in regards to the condition. Was there anything your vet told you that you could do to alleviate the condition?

ThanksThen he dose have stringhalts I'm afraid:sadsmile: electrolytes in his water after you ride him, magnesium sulphate in his water or feed, avoid feeds high in molasses as this causes lactic & uric levels to rise which doesnt help his condition, a mild diuretic on occasions if you feel his tying up from acid build up, some stringhalt horse will retain there urine more or become trickles meaning they have trouble holding the bladder content, which can lead to dehydration & mineral lose, & most will suffer urine burn to there legs as a result of not being able to place there legs in position to avoid them being splashed, petroleum jelly or zinc cream although messy is very beneficial on the hide legs to stop the burning occurring & last the most important plenty of understanding & kindness towards his/her infliction when he trying his/her best & it may not be up to your expectations of what you feel he/her should be doing .:)

[Centuree]

Okay, yeah, thats what I had thought. Poor guy, although he doesn't seem to be in too much pain. Apparently it started when he was 2 years old (owner said he may have gotten cast in his stall). But thanks for the recommendations.

I just came back in from the barn and noticed that he has some strange swelling patterns going on in the legs as well. His stringhalt leg (R hind) is swollen from the fetlock halfway up his cannon (although he just had the surgery to remove the tendon) so that may have something to do with it. Also his L hind is also swollen, but less than the R hind. His R front appears normal, and his L front is super swollen just around the fetlock joint. Aaahhh, so many problems - that I do not know how to diagnose.

[Rick Burten]

[edit]

come back when you actually get some experience under your belt with stringhalt cases say at least a few hundred or so
Don't have to come back because I've never left. Unlike you, I don't keep count of the numbers of horses with pathology that I attend. Never had a reason to do so. [edit]
have shod a horse, one will do, that actually won something,
At what level? Local show level? Regional show level? National show level? Regardless, as I shoe many Arabian and Part-Arabian show horses, would it be OK if I just mainly used that group for my CV for you? Now, off the top of my head, I can think of several Scottsdale, and/or Buckeye Top Ten or better horses that I've shod, various Regions Regional Top Five, Reserve and Champion horses, Canadian and US National Top Ten, Reserve National Champion and National Champion horses in disciplines as diverse as Dressage, Hunter Pleasure, Western Pleasure, Sport Horse, Arabian Native Costume, Youth, Amateur, and Open divisions. Also have had several National Champion Andulusian horses in my custom. (Yawn) To anyone other than Jacko that might be reading this, I apologize for what might have come across as braggadocio.

However, just so that you can't say I didn't specifically answer your query, how about: "Mr. Tezrik+" #1A157562(sire: TL Tezrik #69656, Dam: Blaze )
[edit]
Regardless, with regard to stringhalt, you said, "But any horse that has had to strain, be it galloped hard or jumped hard will delevop it."

I called you on that because were that the case, the literature, veterinary medical or otherwise would be reporting this information in great detail and at great length. Additionally, were this a true scenario, doubtless, great amounts of money would be spent on research to deal with this problem. Do you perhaps know of even one research grant, or one peer reviewed paper that substantiates your claim? If so, please present it. Or what is more likely, you will bluster, obfusicate and throw a hissy fit to cover up your evidenced shortcomings.
if you have shod & have ridden & cut up enough retired Show Jumpers & Gallopers in your life time as i have then one see's & realizes that prolonged excessive straining on the hide quarters, can cause damage to the lumbar vertebrae interfering with the spinal cord & the signals transmitted along it .
Right, I forgot that you somehow got your 007 licence. Whatcha' doin' cutting up all those horses Jacko? Trying to hide the evidence of your incompetence? Regardless, I note that you say "can cause damage", not "does cause damage" or "always causes damage". That being the case, with your own words you are hoist by your own petard. Either it , according to your first statement always causes damage leading to stringhalt, or according to your second statement which is diametrically opposed to your first statement, can cause damage resulting in stringhalt. So which is it? "Always" or "can", as in "possibly", "sometimes", "occasionally"? Please be specific.
PS I'm looking forwards to rick burtens dismissal of that not being the case in some horses it should be an interesting post by rick
Well there you go Jacko. Backing off your original position of "Always", and in so doing, substantiating my "Demonstrably untrue" reply to your original claim. Thank you for making my case for me. What will now be interesting is watching you twist in the wind as you try to spin doctor your way out of the coffin you just built with your own hands. ROTFLMAO!!

[edit]

[SMF11]

SMF11 - can you share some of what you have found in regards to the condition. Was there anything your vet told you that you could do to alleviate the condition?

Thanks[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately my research into it was done several years ago so I don't remember the specifics . . . there are reports of a toxic plant causing it, but in the superficial research I did it was not common/or only in Australia or something, so didn't apply to me. I never read about any other known cause; injury seems counterintuitive to me, because if the condition is neurological, then any injury would have had to be to the brain, or maybe the central nervous system, not muscles/tendons etc as would be caused by overexertion. (This is just logical; plus, as I said, I never discovered research showing a known cause).

And, no, my vets didn't have anything to really recommend for him. When I was riding him his hocks were injected regularly (every 8 months or so) and I noticed that his stringhalt would also get better (not go away, but be less pronounced). Stringhalt wouldn't be a reason to inject your horses (it didn't do *that* much) but I wonder if arthritis pain etc. makes the stringhalt symptoms worse. Finally, one vet tried accupuncture with no change at all in the stringhalt.

One of my vets is a good equine vet; the other is a specialist in lameness/injury who works regionally. The fact that she (the specialist) didn't have anything to offer me tells me not too much is known about this condition.

But remember: this horse had a very successful dressage career, showing through second level (or was it fourth? I only ever showed him Training level) all with his stringhalt and it didn't affect him. I also jumped (showing hunters, hunter pacing, taking lots of lessons etc) with no problems. So truly, the stringhalt is just a quirk for most of the time, maybe all of the time for most horses.

[Centuree]

SMF11 - If your horse had a successful dressage career - didn't the judges mark down on your horse's walk due to the stringhalt? Or was the stringhalt not overly pronounced at the walk in your horse's case? My guy's stringhalt is very noticeable at the walk but hardly noticeably at the trot or canter.

[jack mac]

SMF11 - can you share some of what you have found in regards to the condition. Was there anything your vet told you that you could do to alleviate the condition?

Thanks

Unfortunately my research into it was done several years ago so I don't remember the specifics . . . there are reports of a toxic plant causing it, but in the superficial research I did it was not common/or only in Australia or something, so didn't apply to me. I never read about any other known cause; injury seems counterintuitive to me, because if the condition is neurological, then any injury would have had to be to the brain, or maybe the central nervous system, not muscles/tendons etc as would be caused by overexertion. (This is just logical; plus, as I said, I never discovered research showing a known cause).

And, no, my vets didn't have anything to really recommend for him. When I was riding him his hocks were injected regularly (every 8 months or so) and I noticed that his stringhalt would also get better (not go away, but be less pronounced). Stringhalt wouldn't be a reason to inject your horses (it didn't do *that* much) but I wonder if arthritis pain etc. makes the stringhalt symptoms worse. Finally, one vet tried accupuncture with no change at all in the stringhalt.

One of my vets is a good equine vet; the other is a specialist in lameness/injury who works regionally. The fact that she (the specialist) didn't have anything to offer me tells me not too much is known about this condition.

But remember: this horse had a very successful dressage career, showing through second level (or was it fourth? I only ever showed him Training level) all with his stringhalt and it didn't affect him. I also jumped (showing hunters, hunter pacing, taking lots of lessons etc) with no problems. So truly, the stringhalt is just a quirk for most of the time, maybe all of the time for most horses.[/QUOTE]




you shouldn't be to quick to dismiss mussel fatigue & overexertion or even mussel wastage. if it involves those that are closely situated to the vertebrae undue pressure or pinching can damage spinal cord nerve tissues , it only requires mild sheath damage to interrupt signal, with toxic stringhalt, plants involved are high in alkaloids there are quite a few that will bring on toxic stringhalt, the list of which can bring it on is vast, inflammation of the kidneys all so takes place, so there is pain & some discomfort in loins region to contended with, & some times mistaken for a back injure in stead of toxicity, the area that seems to be the cause involved in true stringhalts is the lumbar nerves region were it branches to the lower limbs it doesnt help the horse having different gaits & would only require mild nerve damage in the lumber region & delay signal to throw his coordination of movement in his hind limbs in to kaos

[jack mac]

I called you on that because were that the case, the literature, veterinary medical or otherwise would be reporting this information in great detail and at great length. Additionally, were this a true scenario, doubtless, great amounts of money would be spent on research to deal with this problem. Do you perhaps know of even one research grant, or one peer reviewed paper that substantiates your claim? If so, please present it. Or what is more likely, you will bluster, obfusicate and throw a hissy fit to cover up your evidenced shortcomings.

Just about every book printed pre 1950s that has a section on strighalts speaks about how strain in the hind quarters will cause it theses books were written back when horses were still used for extremely heavy loads, they pulled plough & rippers & harrows mower shears & hay rakes, logs out of forests, haled hay wagons, beer barrel & milk lorry's the last 2 horse to ever pull a milk lorry commercially in Victoria 6 days a week was shod by my father & me they weren't haling plastic bottles ether they were glass & had to hall that milk lorry up some mighty big hill & back down again, both those horse developed stringhalts later on in life , the authors of theses books weren't dills they reported on what they saw & the consistent evidents presenting its self time & time again & all theses authors reported the same thing & came to the same conclusion that strain can cause stringhalt in a horse just as i have witnessed in horses that have strained be it pulling loads show jumping & hard racing carriers .

[Rick Burten]

Well they were a big list of major thoroughbred & standard breed races on the world stage to draw your vast experience & knowledge of stringhalts from not,LMAO,
Really? Care to name a few?
i stand by always because stringhalts has varying degrees of severity which you wouldn't have a clue about even if it jumped up & bit you on the :eek:AS
Always, eh? So Secretariat had stringhalt? How about Phar Lap? All the horses ever entered at the Rolex, WEG, or OlympicGames have stringhalt? This year's winner, or for that matter, every winner of The Hambeltonian have stringhalt? All of Prince Charles' polo horses have stringhalt? All the Competetive Driving horses have stringhalt? All the horses in the Budweiser Hitch have stringhalt? Every PSG(or above) has stringhalt? Last year's Tevis Cup winner/top ten finishers have stringhalt? All CT horses end up with stringhalt? All? Every single one? please be precise here. A simple "Yes" or "No" will suffice.
Perhaps you are the one confused. Confused because you are seeing horses with "shivers" and incorrectly diagnosing them as having stringhalt. Why am I not suprised?

[edit]

[JB]

there are reports of a toxic plant causing it, but in the superficial research I did it was not common/or only in Australia or something, so didn't apply to me.
It's false dandelion, aka common catsear, you are referring to, and yes, it is in the US ;)
http://www.weedalert.com/weed_pages/wa_false_dandelion.htm
It is very common on the west coast and locally common in eastern Canada and the northeastern and central United States.

I never read about any other known cause; injury seems counterintuitive to me, because if the condition is neurological, then any injury would have had to be to the brain, or maybe the central nervous system, not muscles/tendons etc as would be caused by overexertion. (This is just logical; plus, as I said, I never discovered research showing a known cause).
Injury can bring on the symptoms, but I don't know if it's really called stringhalt at that point. And you won't find any solid research on it being caused by showing, much as jack would like you to think ;)

The other cause is genetic. Of those, AFAIK, there are 2 types - the TRUE stringhalt, of which there is no cure, and the symptomatic stringhalt from EPSM, in which case diet can help a lot, even eliminate it.

Stringhalt wouldn't be a reason to inject your horses (it didn't do *that* much) but I wonder if arthritis pain etc. makes the stringhalt symptoms worse. Finally, one vet tried accupuncture with no change at all in the stringhalt.
Right, stringhalt doesn't involve issues with a joint, and it's not painful. But it's interesting, never thought about it, that arthritis somewhere could lead to increased symptoms - makes sense though.

[JB]

SMF11 - If your horse had a successful dressage career - didn't the judges mark down on your horse's walk due to the stringhalt? Or was the stringhalt not overly pronounced at the walk in your horse's case? My guy's stringhalt is very noticeable at the walk but hardly noticeably at the trot or canter.

Not speaking for SMF :) But I knew one horse with a milder case of sh, and as long as his rider RODE him, as in kept him impulsive and forward, you'd never know he had it. But if she let him putz along, he'd start hiking the leg.

[SMF11]

Not speaking for SMF :) But I knew one horse with a milder case of sh, and as long as his rider RODE him, as in kept him impulsive and forward, you'd never know he had it. But if she let him putz along, he'd start hiking the leg.

Thanks, JB, that's exactly right. Once he walked out for a few steps he was just fine -- you would never know he had it. By the time he got into the dressage ring he was well warmed up. But I didn't even have to really ride him forward for the stringhalt to disappear -- even riding around the farm bareback there were no symptoms after the first five or so steps.

[MistyBlue]

My mare has stringhalt...took a while to determine stringhalt vs shivers.
Hers reacts whenever she puts her head down to graze/eat...when her head goes down her right hind leg jerks up. Depending on her mood/the day/whatever...that reaction can be anything from jerking it up and putting it right back down, jerking it up and kicking out behind her, jerking it up and holding it under her belly for an instant or jerking it up and holding it out to the side for a second. When she does the one that she holds it out to the side...she lifts her hip also and then rotates her leg once and puts the leg back down. It looks as if she's "adjusting" the cause.
She will show it slightly if I back her...but it's slight. Otherwise she's perfectly sound at all gaits...even without a warmup. It is more noticeable in winter...and it's getting a bit stronger as she ages and has some arthritic changes.
She's had it a *long* time...before I bought her she was showing dressage often and there wasn't any issues with marking down or anyone even noticing it in the arena. But she did get a "false reputation" for a short time for being "mean." The owner I bought her from thought she was threatening to kick when her leg jerked up. It does look a tad humorous when she has a reaction sometimes...when I put hay out and she goes for a bite, her leg jerks up and she might kick that one out behind her kind of hard...we joke that she's defending her hay from Invisible Ghost Horses.
It doesn't bother her in the least...the only time it's an issue is when she's being shod. Lifting that right hind of hers can cause it to spasm...she can end up yanking her hoof out of the farrier's hand or yanking it up under her or even jerking it out of his hold and holding it out to the side. Thankfully the farrier I use is very patient and understanding with her about it...he barely lifts that hoof off the ground to minimize the possibility of a spasm and doesn't waste any time doing that hoof.

[JHUshoer20]

Just about every book printed pre 1950s that has a section on strighalts speaks about how strain in the hind quarters will cause it theses books were written back when horses were still used for extremely heavy loads, they pulled plough & rippers & harrows mower shears & hay rakes, logs out of forests, haled hay wagons, beer barrel & milk lorry's the last 2 horse to ever pull a milk lorry commercially in Victoria 6 days a week was shod by my father & me they weren't haling plastic bottles ether they were glass & had to hall that milk lorry up some mighty big hill & back down again, both those horse developed stringhalts later on in life , the authors of theses books weren't dills they reported on what they saw & the consistent evidents presenting its self time & time again & all theses authors reported the same thing & came to the same conclusion that strain can cause stringhalt in a horse just as i have witnessed in horses that have strained be it pulling loads show jumping & hard racing carriers .
Thats interesting Jack.
The one I had which I remember was a Thoroughbred colt I trimmed from the time he was born. I worked on him on the farm until he went away to the track. Eventually he came back after about 8 or 9 months stringhalted bad.

Obviously he couldn't have gotten into any poison plants living at the racetrack in a stall so by that case I'd believe he did something to himself training.
George

[Centuree]

Thanks guys - I didn't know a horse with stringhalt could show in dressage.
I have'nt backed this guy yet, but when I do, I'll try really riding him to see if I can get his stringhalt to dissipate under saddle. He just finished with racing in January though, and had a mild injury, so I'm going to let him relax for the first while.

I've also started changing his diet and giving him oil. Either way, even if it doesn't work, he's such a huge guy, that he could probably use those extra fat calories instead of getting it tall from high carb grain.

[JB]

I didn't know a horse with stringhalt could show in dressage.


It just depends - severe cases do interfere with the quality/purity of the gait, and that would be detrimental to the scores. But if it's not so severe that being asked to work properly makes it invisible, then go ahead :)

I've also started changing his diet and giving him oil.
Don't forget to look at the vitamin E and selenium levels. The addition of those 2 seems to be important in resolving "stringhalt" resulting from EPSM.

[karenstandefer]

if you have shod & have ridden & cut up enough retired Show Jumpers & Gallopers in your life time as i have then one see's & realizes that prolonged excessive straining on the hide quarters, can cause damage to the lumbar vertebrae interfering with the spinal cord & the signals transmitted along it . PS I'm looking forwards to rick burtens dismissal of that not being the case in some horses ;)it should be an interesting post by rick

Jack, maybe you could collaborate on your findings with Dr. Rooney. He has an open invitation here:

http://www.horseshoes.com/farrierssites/sites/rooney/stringhalt/stringhalt.htm

[Centuree]

It just depends - severe cases do interfere with the quality/purity of the gait, and that would be detrimental to the scores. But if it's not so severe that being asked to work properly makes it invisible, then go ahead :)

Don't forget to look at the vitamin E and selenium levels. The addition of those 2 seems to be important in resolving "stringhalt" resulting from EPSM.

Ye, his case may be too severe, but worth a try nonetheless.

Well the oil I bought for him is canola oil, very high in Vitamin E. I figured that would suffice. AS for selenium, that is provided in his grain, do you think I should be adding more?

[JB]

Well the oil I bought for him is canola oil, very high in Vitamin E. I figured that would suffice.
Define "very high" ;)


AS for selenium, that is provided in his grain, do you think I should be adding more?
Allll depends. It depends on your soil, what's in your hay, how much is in your grain (bet .5 to maybe 1mg is there), and how much his body needs to intake to maintain healthy blood levels. Some horses need as much as 5-6mg added daily to maintain proper blood levels.

[jack mac]

Thats interesting Jack.
The one I had which I remember was a Thoroughbred colt I trimmed from the time he was born. I worked on him on the farm until he went away to the track. Eventually he came back after about 8 or 9 months stringhalted bad.

Obviously he couldn't have gotten into any poison plants living at the racetrack in a stall so by that case I'd believe he did something to himself training.
GeorgeYou keep observant George & you will see a definite correlation between stringhalts & strain, it may not show up for years to come in the horse, but it will show up PS on the topic of outstanding American farriers that have shod some mighty good gallopers in there time , its was never gentleman Jim as i referred to the great man, its gentleman john, John C******** didn't want the hounds to run with the sent, if you know what i mean George;)

[JHUshoer20]

You keep observant George & you will see a definite correlation between stringhalts & strain, it may not show up for years to come in the horse, but it will show up PS on the topic of outstanding American farriers that have shod some mighty good gallopers in there time , its was never gentleman Jim as i referred to the great man, its gentleman john, John C******** didn't want the hounds to run with the sent, if you know what i mean George;)
I know exactly who you speak of. In fact I wrote an article about him that was published in the Dec-Jan issue of "Todays Pro Farrier" magazine.:D
George

[JHUshoer20]

you're a carbuncle on the rump of society. Full of poison and infection, and in serious need of lancing.

Wow! It's been some time since anyone has had that title bestowed upon them. I thought Richard Reviliski had permanent ownership of it:eek:

Say it ain't so Rick!:confused:
George

[jack mac]

I know exactly who you speak of. In fact I wrote an article about him that was published in the Dec-Jan issue of "Todays Pro Farrier" magazine.:D
GeorgeGeorge could you email me a copy of the article we don't get that mag over here, i would love to read it :)

[MistyBlue]

I'm not the OP...but maybe the OP would enjoy the thread more if they could find information about stringhalt on it rather than a pissing contest?
Yeesh...and they call women catty...meee-ow.

[JHUshoer20]

George could you email me a copy of the article we don't get that mag over here, i would love to read it :)Sure thing Jack,
Tell you what,
PM me with a mailing address and I'll send you a copy.
George

[Rick Burten]

Wow! It's been some time since anyone has had that title bestowed upon them. I thought Richard Reviliski had permanent ownership of it:eek:

Say it ain't so Rick!
George
Nothing to be confused about George. Bobby Liotti passed the title on to Richard Revilinski, and now, Revilinski has passed the title on to Jacko. The first two, after having been treated, went into remission and were eventually declared healthy. Should either one or both of these individuals(Bobby and RR) suffer a remission, then we'll have to hold a special title match to determine the true holder of the title. Perhaps we can negotiate with Vince McMahon and have it as an under card on WWE Raw, live on some Monday night. Or, perhaps PPV would be the way to go. LOL!
The title has remained vacant since then because since then, up until now, no worthy contender has stepped forward. That is no longer the case. :)

"And now, for the thousands in attendance, and the millions watching on TV, Lets get ready to RUMBLLLLLLLLLLLLLE" :D

[JHUshoer20]

Who's this Liotti guy? Must've missed that one:sadsmile:
George

[Rick Burten]

Who's this Liotti guy? Must've missed that one:sadsmile:
George
Before your time on horseshoes.com. Should be in the old archives.

[jack mac]

Now to get the topic back online, I'm posting this link as to give a basic understanding as to function of the lumber area of the spine although that of a human & obviously different characteristic to a horse, the principal of function run along similar lines
http://www.everydayhealth.com/publicsite/index.aspx?puid=f8fae79b-75a6-4930-b770-5b34dab6a503&p=4
& this work will be immensely helpful in the near future
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/evj/evj/2007/00000039/00000001/art00014

[longview_bc]

Now to get the topic back online, I'm posting this link as to give a basic understanding as to function of the lumber area of the spine although that of a human & obviously different characteristic to a horse, the principal of function run along similar lines
http://www.everydayhealth.com/publicsite/index.aspx?puid=f8fae79b-75a6-4930-b770-5b34dab6a503&p=4
& this work will be immensely helpful in the near future
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/evj/evj/2007/00000039/00000001/art00014

Hi all,

The article is about the human spine and you might be surprised to learn that humans and horses have vastly different skeletal systems and of no use when making comparisons a horses spine, duh. And you call Rick Google boy!

Kevin

[Centuree]

Come on guys - stop arguing. How ridiculous! All this information is useful for me - I know very little is known about the condition; therefore, many different theories are also floating around. I am interested in them all, so stop bashing what the other person is saying.

Anyways, not sure if anyone cares, but I mentioned a few posts back that I was noticing abnormal swelling in the fetlocks. Well, my farrier friends, it appears that he has cracked heels and little infections are causing these blow ups completely unrelated to his stringhalt, but thought it was interesting, and probably something you guys have probably encountered as well.

[Moderator 1]

After warnings, a temporary ban, and further warnings that were disregarded, we've permanently banned jack mac from the board as a result of his refusal to express his opinions without the use of name calling, combative language and personal commentary.

We encourage all users to keep the topics on track and avoid the aforementioned behavior. Other posters have resorted to similar tactics in response to his posts, which have been removed where evident and will be addressed in the future if they continue.

We appreciate the use of the alert function on posts of this nature, so the problem can be addressed early before it has the chance to escalate and detract from the overall thread.

Thanks.

[Rick Burten]

Anyways, not sure if anyone cares, but I mentioned a few posts back that I was noticing abnormal swelling in the fetlocks. Well, my farrier friends, it appears that he has cracked heels and little infections are causing these blow ups completely unrelated to his stringhalt, but thought it was interesting, and probably something you guys have probably encountered as well.
Sounds like what is often called "Scratches","Greasy Heel" "Dew Poisoning" or "Mud Fever". In humans, its often called "Char woman hands" because these ladies had chapped rough, reddened and often infected skin lesions on their hands from constant immersion is water and grime. In the service, it was often called "Trench Foot" or "Immersion Foot". In mild cases, trimming the hair short in the area of the infection, getting and keeping the feet dry, and the application of an antibiotic cream will often remedy the problem. In more advanced cases, the application of an antibiotic cream containing a steriod is often necessary. In the past, Panalog ointment usually proved quite effective for me. Nowadays, for mild cases i often suggest that after the area has been cleaned and dried, Desitin ointment be applied . Sometimes a light guaze/vet wrap over bandaging is also employed. You can also add some cortisone cream and an antibiotic cream to the Desitin, mix well and slather on. And I wouldn't necessarily use Desitin. I'd find the least expensive 40% zinc oxide cream available, and the least expensive cortisone and antibiotic creams and use them. The mixing ration is 4:2:2 4oz zinc oxide ointment:2oz cortisone cream:2oz antibiotic cream.

Disclaimer: I'm not a veterinarian nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night, so check with your vet before mixing and/or applying this treatment.