I have to fire my farrier

[alter pain]

After two instance of problems with lameness with my horses, my vet and trainer are insisting that I find another farrier. I agree with them. I just am such a chicken about this. The farrier that I have been using is a really nice guy and his wife is an aquaintance of mine. I'm not sure how to handle this. I feel that I can't just blow him off or not return his calls when he is due to come again, I just don't know what to say. Even though I am firing him for not doing a good job I just don't know how to put it tactfully. I really don't want to hurt his feelings even though I have been upset about my horses. I just can't keep him but I'm very torn about what to do. Anyone have a suggestion?

[Capriole]

I've had to do this twice. I'm a chicken, so I try to call at a time when I know I'll get voicemail. I say something like "thanks for all you have done for Dobbin and me. I've decided to go in a different direction, and I just wanted to let you know."

[Daydream Believer]

I can be a chicken about confrontations. What I have done in the past is to call, cancel an appointment if I have one and then say I'll have to call back to reschedule. I then just don't call back. The other person will get the message.

You might be confronted at some point if you do see that person and that can be awkward...so be prepared for that if you take the cop out method! I had that happen with a farrier I fired by not calling him back to reschedule after he failed to make an appearance for the fourth time. It was about that time I got frustrated trying to find a reliable or capable farrier in my area after my move up here and started earnestly working to learn to trim my own horses (about 20).

I saw him last summer at my barn (several years after I last used him) working for another client. He asked who was doing my horses now and you could have knocked him down with a feather when I told him I was trimming all of my own horses now due to the lack of finding a reliable farrier who showed up when he was supposed to and taking on a few clients as well. (I couldn't resist!) I could see him looking at all the horses on the farm (50+) and that he'd lost a great deal of business with his lack of customer service. Paybacks a bitch!

[Dianna]

It is very hard to do, especially if you like him as a person. You could send a Thank You Card, explaining that you appreciate all of his time and effort, but that at this time you are going to be utilizing a different farrier.

[mbd]

Oh, honey, I feel for you. I have had to do this twice and it is never fun. The one that is closest to your situation was a toughie.

Acquired project horse, came with farrier that I knew slightly. Decent reputation, good bedside manner, very nice person. Had baseline x-rays done on horse and discovered some issues that needed to be corrected. Not life threatening, but would have been serious down the road if not dealt with.

Discuss with farrier over phone x-ray findings. Farrier very agreeable to changes and complimented me on being a proactive owner to have x-rays done and make changes. Set up meeting with farrier, vet and x-rays.

At meeting, farrier is rude to vet, rude to me, refuses to look at x-rays, informs me I will ruin horse and that vets and owners don't know nothin' about shoein' hosses. Says changes I want based on x-rays are impossible and dangerous.

Okay, I'm not the brightest crayon in the box, nor do I pretend to know everything there is to know, but how can you ignore black and white glossies? I mean, the photos do not lie and have no bias, right? Tried to tell farrier that it wasn't about the quality of their work, it's about the longevity of the horse. Vet was very patient but eventually threw up hands and left. Who could blame them?

Farrier left in a snit. I gave it a couple days then tracked farrier down at another barn and we had a slightly stiff but good conversation. I kept everything as professional as possible, no comments on farrier's behavior or experience, just that horse needed to go in a different direction based on x-rays and that I had no choice but to go that way. If farrier was right about me ruining horse, I'd be back with hat in hand. We left it on as good as terms as possible.

That was the best I could do. Farrier had to go, but I didn't need to tick them off or say anything bad. Too small of a community, so I took the high road and kept it all on terms of the horses' well-being. After all, that's what it's supposed to be about, right?

Maybe if you keep it on that basis it will be easier.

[Buffyblue]

I'm a chicken too. When I had to do it in the past, I blamed the whole thing on my vet!

[Lookout]

Geez louise, I can't believe you're getting advice on how to be a weasel :eek: !

No one appreciates those kinds of tactics. Although I have learned that when you don't get a return phone call, what someone is 'saying'.

Have you had conversations about this problem with your farrier after they've happened? If not or even if you have, then why not call him and say your horse has been lame twice after shoeing, and see what he says. You can then just not be particularly conclusive, or say that you don't think his approach will work for your horse but you appreciate his services. It's never good to burn bridges.

The only time I ever 'fired' a farrier wasn't really firing, it was when I decided to go barefoot with a barefoot trimmer (not a pasture trim). I called my farrier and told him (even though I could have just not bothered because I always had to call to schedule the appointment and at that point my horse was overdue and I hadn't heard from the farrier). I told him point blank I was taking the horse barefoot (we had been working with the vet trying to fix a lameness and it wasn't really working) so I thought he would have expected it but by his reaction it seemed to hit him like a bombshell. But I thought he appreciated knowing what happened and could face him if I ever ran into him at a barn, and would have liked to show off my horse's sound bare feet but that has never happened.

[alter pain]

I have had a six month problem with this farrier. My trainer and vet think that he is just a very average craftsman and that he just doesn't have the experience to make constructive changes. Yes I have let him know about the problems and I have had some high vet bills as a result. I have complained and specifically told him what the vet has found. Now the same problems are cropping up with another of my horses. I just want to know if anyone has had a similar situation and can say this in a constructive manner without hurting his feelings. He really is a nice man.

[deltawave]

Before you fire the current farrier, have you gotten concrete recommendations from your vet and trainer as to who they DO recommend? There is so much finger-pointing going on sometimes when a horse is NQR: the vet blames the farrier, the farrier blames the trainer/training, the trainer blames the vet. Not saying this is the case here, but what do YOU think of the work the farrier has done, the service provided, and the prospects for finding a better one where you are?

ETA my post popped up after yours (obviously) so your clarification helps. :) Could you get a SPECIFIC recommendation from your vet as to exactly what type of changes he/she recommends and discuss them with your farrier? If he disagrees or doesn't think he can do what is required, you then have a concrete place to diverge from. If the vet doesn't feel comfortable making specific shoeing recommendations (can't blame them), why not a consultation with an expert farrier, sort of a second opinion? Then you could tell the original farrier you have a plan and this is what you need/want him to do.

[alter pain]

Yes, I agree with both the trainer and the vet. I have a good recommendation from both of them. I don't think this is a case of finger pointing. It's really clear that it is the farrier's fault. They both went lame a day after the trim/ shoes.

[GallopGal]

Yes, I agree with both the trainer and the vet. I have a good recommendation from both of them. I don't think this is a case of finger pointing. It's really clear that it is the farrier's fault. They both went lame a day after the trim/ shoes.

Simply say your trainer would like you to use their farrier. Say they have a close relationship and work well together to meet your horses needs.

When I changed barns I told my farrier I would no longer need his services since I was going to be using the farrier that all the other boarders use. I told him it would be easier for me since they set up all the appointments every 5-6 weeks. He was a great farrier but my new barn also has a great farrier and its so much easier not to have to call the farrier to set up an appointment or be at the barn when he is there.

[FancyFree]

Yes, I agree with both the trainer and the vet. I have a good recommendation from both of them. I don't think this is a case of finger pointing. It's really clear that it is the farrier's fault. They both went lame a day after the trim/ shoes.

Oh I feel for you. I had to change farriers because mine was so inconsistent with his work. Sometimes it would be great, others not. I was upfront and told him that I would be switching. I got glares from him for probably two years! I didn't care because I had a fantastic guy who was always consistently fantastic. It was awkward for a bit though.

Just be upfront. State the facts. It's the best for your horse. Hopefully he'll get over it quicker than mine did.

[BuddyRoo]

How about honesty?

"Sir, I have had x problems and offered X solutions but it doesn't appear that we are able to tackle these problems together. So I'm going to try someone else. I appreciate your work thus far, but horses come first. I'm sure you understand."

done.

The guy needs to know that his inability to grasp suggestions is losing him a client. Perhaps that will clue him in. If not, he's not that great or interested in getting better. It might be just enough for him to start clueing in elsewhere....


Don't waste your integrity on a lie. The fact is, a farrier is hired to do a job. If they fail to do a good job, they lose work. It's very very simple. Don't waste your integrity trying to make someone feel better about piss poor work.

[LT]

That is a really tough one.I wrote a very nice letter thanked for his work and patience with the horses. I then let him know my show horse was going to need specialized shoeing that he did not have current knowledge about.I think I wrot e it not such a rude way but tryed too be thankful and fire him at the same time..but the letter worked for me and there seems to be no bad blood between us..good luck

[Lauren!]

Thank him for his work on your horses, but inform him you'll be using someone else in the future on your trainer's recommendation. Keep it polite and professional, and just tell the truth, but there's no need to get into specifics unless he asks IMO.

[Kit]

I know how you feel. It's so hard to do! I think I would just front up and be honest. Just say that on the advice of your trainer and vet you have to have your horse shod in a special way for the type of work you are doing because you are having lameness problems so you will get them all done by that same person but thank him for his work. If you don't be reasonably honest, then you will never be able to be comfortable around he and his wife and you don't want that!

[JHUshoer20]

Thank him for his work on your horses, but inform him you'll be using someone else in the future on your trainer's recommendation. Keep it polite and professional, and just tell the truth, but there's no need to get into specifics unless he asks IMO.
Not a one of us that hasn't heard that. There are only 2 kinds of horseshoers in this world, those who have been fired and those who will be. Most of us are used to it. Those who take it personally won't last in the business. Don't be so worried, if the guy has been around a while it won't be the first time for him.

Wonder why about 100% of you all can tell stories of bad experiences with horseshoers but our British friends are all blissfully happy with their guys. I've never yet heard a Brit complain as American horse people do.

Because I said this lets see if one jumps in here now:) Bet you all know where I'm going with this right?
George

[Eventingjunkie]

I just fired my farrier under the same circumstances. And I really liked the guy, hated to do it. I was chicken and left a message on the machine, but I felt like he deserved an explanation. I had my two trainers, two different vets, and two other farriers look at my horses and they all came to the same conclusion of what was wrong and how it should be fixed without being prompted of the others opinions. My farrier felt it was unfair that he was not given a chance to defend himself or fix the situation...but under his care two of my horses almost became permanently lame. I eventually spoke to him in person, and now I think it might have been better if I had just avoided returning his calls and been less honest.

[alter pain]

George,

Since you are willing to respond, I will let you answer this. If you shod two horses that had never been lame ever in their lives, and immediately after the next day they were three legged lame because of being cut too short, would you feel it was your fault? I'm not talking about not going correctly, landing unevenly or a theorectical problem with no lameness but real sore and unable to work for weeks.

[JHUshoer20]

George,

Since you are willing to respond, I will let you answer this. If you shod two horses that had never been lame ever in their lives, and immediately after the next day they were three legged lame because of being cut too short, would you feel it was your fault? I'm not talking about not going correctly, landing unevenly or a theorectical problem with no lameness but real sore and unable to work for weeks.
If that was in fact the problem yes.

However, I believe in personal responsibility. In other words I'd fix what I screwed up at no cost to you and I'd do it soon as possible.

If the animal was cut too short or even dripping red it would not put him out of work for weeks. If that's whats going on you may have more of an issue than just being cut too close.

Are these horses barefoot or shod? If shod have the guy donate a pair of pads. If barefoot you need to go down to your tackshop and get some venice turpentine. Paint it on the horses soles for a few days. He should be ok within a week.
George

[ChristineC]

We've never had to fire our farrier, but the last one sort of fired us. He was here putting shoes on our horses for the mountains, and because it was raining he wanted to do them in the garage (we don't have a barn). Well, I said to face our gelding's head towards the garage door so he would be happier as they are never ever trimmed in the garage... But no, the farrier said he needed all the light he could get... So they had him up against the side of the garage, with his feet at an awkward angle, hammering a shoe on (and we know he's a tad fussy with his hinds)... I'm watching this (my dad was holding the gelding as he is his horse), and even said that they shouldn't be doing it... When about 30 seconds later the gelding starts fussing and ends up flying backwards out of the garage, and flipping and breaking the farrier's box (the one they have all their rasps, nippers, etc. in). I don't think he was too pleased about it - but it's his own fault really.

He finished off our horses, but didn't return my mom's phone calls for the next trim. We took the hint, and have a new farrier who is wonderful with the horses and their feet look way better with him than they ever did with the last one.

[goeslikestink]

After two instance of problems with lameness with my horses, my vet and trainer are insisting that I find another farrier. I agree with them. I just am such a chicken about this. The farrier that I have been using is a really nice guy and his wife is an aquaintance of mine. I'm not sure how to handle this. I feel that I can't just blow him off or not return his calls when he is due to come again, I just don't know what to say. Even though I am firing him for not doing a good job I just don't know how to put it tactfully. I really don't want to hurt his feelings even though I have been upset about my horses. I just can't keep him but I'm very torn about what to do. Anyone have a suggestion?

before you fire him then why not put pics of his shoes or shoeing job taking pics of all sides and underneatth foot and ask the on www.horseshoes.com
its a farrier site-- as you and barn owner mit think its the best thing to do for your horse but is it

i would give the benifit of doubt -- and ask the farriers themselves if its the best thing to do or not for your horse

[feetfirst]

As a farrier, I would want to know the reason for the lameness, and would be proactive in helping find a solution.
As for being fired, it happens. A simple call saying you are using someone else is all I'd ask for.
How ironic that most owners on this thread recommend to the OP that they take the chicken way out and avoid telling the truth, and would just as soon jerk the farrier around by not returning calls or rescheduling time after time.
BUT, heaven forbid a farrier pulls the same stunt, then we are labeled unprofession, heartless hacks.

[Cherry]

Posted by George:
I've never yet heard a Brit complain as American horse people do.

Well, Americans are good at complaining! :eek: :yes: :winkgrin: :lol: That said, perhaps British farriers are better educated than the majority of American farriers..... I've noticed too that some American farriers have over developed egos and seem to think they can't make mistakes....

George, I've seen some pretty awful photos of feet on these Internet bulletin boards of horses that were supposedly "just done"--they make me cringe.... :eek: Where are these "farriers" learning their trade???? :uhoh: My own horse has had some pretty bad trims perpetrated on her as well....

Alter pain, just be honest with the guy! I'd probably try to work with him though before throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Just what do the vet and trainer think this guy is doing that is causing your horses to be off? I know what you're going through though--I long for the days when a horse was sound before and after the trim.... :( But really, tell your farrier that your horses aren't going well and ask him what he thinks the problem is.... Even if you're the best farrier in the whole darn world I still think you can screw up! :yes:

[CowboyShoePolish]

Interesting thread. I like the answer given by George. I'm new to horse ownership, but, not to working with people. Sometimes we all face moments that cause us to feel uncomfortable with being honest and truthful. Strong relationships are built on truthful exchanges. If presented with the problem, the farrier shrugs his shoulders and just says sorry...well time to move on. However if he got it wrong, and will fix it and make it right, (as George suggests) Is he the type that would carelessly make the same mistake twice? If the horses made a mistake would you discard them also?

I would suggest a single episode, doesn't make him the wrong choice. The chance to make it right just might make a better farrier and a future steward to your horses needs. .02 :yes:

[JB]

George,

Since you are willing to respond, I will let you answer this. If you shod two horses that had never been lame ever in their lives, and immediately after the next day they were three legged lame because of being cut too short, would you feel it was your fault? I'm not talking about not going correctly, landing unevenly or a theorectical problem with no lameness but real sore and unable to work for weeks.

Is this the first time this farrier has (allegedly) made these 2 horses lame? Ever? If so, is that REALLY cause for firing him? If not, that is understandable, but then I'd ask - have you talked to him about it before and it happened again? If so, then I understand letting him go.

[deltawave]

Any farrier can make a mistake and trim a horse too short, put in a close nail, etc. If it happened once or even "once in a great while" and I was otherwise happy about their work, I'd be inclined to let it go. Nobody's perfect. :)

[JHUshoer20]

Posted by George:

Well, Americans are good at complaining! :eek: :yes: :winkgrin: :lol: That said, perhaps British farriers are better educated than the majority of American farriers..... I've noticed too that some American farriers have over developed egos and seem to think they can't make mistakes....

Aha, Somebody saw what I was getting at. The British system as determined by their craft guild requires extensive training and a long apprenticeship guaranteeining an individual is highly qualified. Best in the world matter of fact. The American system is completely unregulated and uncontrolled. Fly by night 2 week wonder schools have been flooding the country with new shoers every friday for the last 30 years. If thats not bad enough, it's not even necessary. Only thing necessary to work at the horseshoeing trade in this country is to wake up one morning and start calling yourself a horseshoer.

Until owners decide that this is no longer desireable or tolerable it will continue. Mr Stovall and others will say that certification is the answer. Problem with that is that for the last 25+ years it hasn't worked. Owners do not and will never choose certified horseshoers over those their friends recommend and overall quality of work has not improved because of it.

Answer is mandatory testing and state licensing. That would work. :yes:

Ok, I'll dismount my soapbox now. Just find it interesting that the Brits can relate to us with just about any equine related topic but this one.
George

[Happy_Hooves]

Its unfortunate that people cant be honest and direct. When we get calls from prosepective new customers they are never told by their prior farriers that they are fired rather their calls are not returned.

Many of the horse owners on this thread cancel and then dont return the farriers calls to reschedule as their means of letting a farrier go.

This lack of honesty can lead to errors. Often I assume I'm not getting a return call due to being fired then discover that some personal life event is the driver and the appointment is made and the horses feet trimmed/shod. Of late economic issues are likely the cause of a rescheduling episode and out of courtesy I dont ask probing questions especially if I believe money is a little tight. If a long term customer is honest about finanacial issues I usually extend credit but I'm not going to offer if they state some other reason as I do not want to embarrass anyone.

Frankness and honesty are good values that more people should practice.

[devcubber]

BuddyRoo, well put. "Don't waste your integrity on a lie."

It's hard to let someone go, especially someone nice, but he deserves a tactful breakup, and you deserve the right to solicit someone else's services.

[Auventera Two]

Have you sat down and had a conversation with this farrier to express your concerns? If not, then that's the first step. How can they know you are unhappy if you don't let them know?

The first visit I have with a horse owner I tell them very plainly how I operate, how I communicate, and how I want them to communicate with me. They have all my #s and my email. I tell them they can call or email anytime of the day or night if they have a concern. I tell them to PLEASE TALK TO ME right away if they don't understand something, they aren't happy, they have a question, or for any reason at all.

I think a failure to communicate is the #1 problem in the farrier/owner relationship. The other day I had a woman tell me "I am so glad I have you now. I just never felt like I could talk to my farrier about ANYTHING. His ego was so big and it's just so hard to talk to a man. Plus he was always so busy he had to run off to the next appointment as fast as possible." So I guess it's just something to think about. If you want people to communicate with you, you have to make yourself available and you have to be receptive.

And quite frankly - I don't know what all this "I fired my farrier" talk is about anyway. Do you fire your vet? Do you fire your feed store, or your hay guy? Usually people just say they found a new feed store or are using a new vet. Horse owners seem to have this idea that you just hire the farrier to do a job, he shows up to do the job and he leaves. But it's a 2 way street. The hoof care professional and you need to WORK TOGETHER for the benefit of your horse. Then if you decide the farrier is incapable of meeting your needs, you simply tell him/her that you will be seeking services elsewhere.

[JHUshoer20]

And quite frankly - I don't know what all this "I fired my farrier" talk is about anyway. Do you fire your vet? Do you fire your feed store, or your hay guy? Usually people just say they found a new feed store or are using a new vet. Horse owners seem to have this idea that you just hire the farrier to do a job, he shows up to do the job and he leaves. But it's a 2 way street. The hoof care professional and you need to WORK TOGETHER for the benefit of your horse. Then if you decide the farrier is incapable of meeting your needs, you simply tell him/her that you will be seeking services elsewhere.
Interesting assessment.
Anybody ever notice that failure is not an option with us? In spite of our non-existent standard what's up with this?

If a horse was to die due to a vet doing a substandard practice, that vet gets benefit of the doubt. Owner shakes their hand and says "thanks for everything Doc you did all you could". "We appreciate your efforts".

OTOH a horseshoer tries something that might not work especially in regards to a traveling problem or lameness, and not only is he fired but everybody you know is told that he's a bum and a hack and ought to be shot.:yes:

True or False?:winkgrin:
George

[kcmel]

How ironic that most owners on this thread recommend to the OP that they take the chicken way out and avoid telling the truth, and would just as soon jerk the farrier around by not returning calls or rescheduling time after time.
BUT, heaven forbid a farrier pulls the same stunt, then we are labeled unprofession, heartless hacks.

Maybe not ironic, but more "turnabout is fair play". Speaking as one who was "dumped" by their farrier with no explanation--was suppose to show up and didn't and didn't return calls and by the time I was able to schedule the new one my horses were about 7-8 weeks between resets :mad::mad:. I am still mad about it, even though it all worked for the best in the end.

[LSM1212]

Aha, Somebody saw what I was getting at. The British system as determined by their craft guild requires extensive training and a long apprenticeship guaranteeining an individual is highly qualified. Best in the world matter of fact. The American system is completely unregulated and uncontrolled. Fly by night 2 week wonder schools have been flooding the country with new shoers every friday for the last 30 years. If thats not bad enough, it's not even necessary. Only thing necessary to work at the horseshoeing trade in this country is to wake up one morning and start calling yourself a horseshoer.

Until owners decide that this is no longer desireable or tolerable it will continue. Mr Stovall and others will say that certification is the answer. Problem with that is that for the last 25+ years it hasn't worked. Owners do not and will never choose certified horseshoers over those their friends recommend and overall quality of work has not improved because of it.

Answer is mandatory testing and state licensing. That would work. :yes:

Ok, I'll dismount my soapbox now. Just find it interesting that the Brits can relate to us with just about any equine related topic but this one.
George

My current farrier is certified. And not from the US. :D

At my old barn, I had to use the farrier that the BO/BM/T used (closed door policy). Most of you know the story so I won't go into details. So I didn't really 'fire' her. I just left that barn and went to the new barn with the new farrier lined up already. :)

I'm happy. Horse is happy. 'nuff said. :yes:

[Chief2]

Even the most non-confrontational of personalities can do this honestly and tactfully. No need to stay awake all night long planning the smoothest exit.

"Horses XYand Z are still struggling with the same soundness issues. We appreciate all you have done for us in the past, but at this point we have decided to try working with a different farrier. Thank you again for all your help."

[Paddys Mom]

George,

While I am extremely happy with the performance and customer service of my current blacksmith, I will say that it has been a tough road.

Not many blacksmiths are willing to travel to my home barn to trim three well-behaved equines (no shoes needed right now), even though I pay upfront with a good check, offer drinks, have a well-lit level indoor surface to work on, and have all three equines clean, dry, and tied up waiting. And I prefer a standing appointment, but am flexible enough to work around their schedule.

In other words, I didn't have the luxury of picking a certified versus an uncertified blacksmith. I had to try out the THREE that were willing to take me on as a customer and pick the best. Honestly, I don't know if my current blacksmith is certified or not. But, he is always on time, keeps me on a standing schedule, calls the Sunday before to confirm, is super nice, and the equines' hooves look good to my untrained eye when he is done.

Edited to add: Sorry for the thread hjack. Just wanted to reply to George. :)

[Cherry]

True or False?:winkgrin:
"It depends..."! ;) :lol:

I have a vet I used to use and no, I don't think he did everything he could to save my pony.... :cry: I don't recommend him to people when someone asks me about a vet.... I believe in calling a spade a spade (at least in my own mind, if not verbally. Verbally, and you might have a problem. :eek: )! :yes:

Actually, I don't think Americans know near enough about their horse's feet and a horse's locomotion (myself included), but I make an attempt.... But I wouldn't have started to make this attempt if I had had a farrier I could depend on though, so maybe this is a blessing in disguise??? :( :no: My point is--how can you complain about someone when you don't know what you're talking about???? :confused: ;) I believe in being honest with myself as well as others.... :yes:

I don't know about the testing and regulation improving anything though.... The guy who really screwed up my horse was a certified member of one of the farrier groups!!! I could see what the problem was just by looking at the horse's feet (I wasn't there when she was trimmed as I had a doctor's appointment) and I told the guy after the fact there was a problem. He never acknowledged my communication and subsequently my horse's hoof cracked from the bottom of the hoof up to the coronary band!!!! :eek: He'd done this horse before when someone else owned her--I thought he knew what he was doing.... I'd never used him before though but I thought to myself, "How badly can you screw up a trim?" (honest to God, that's what I said to myself!). Well, I guess I found out!!!! :winkgrin: She went lame, was lame for weeks, had to have the foot x-rayed, and it took me well over a year to get her straightened out!!!! I had to find a different farrier to put shoes on her front feet (an added expense I couldn't afford, but couldn't afford not to employ). The simple trim cost me over a thousand dollars to rectify!!!! :eek: I don't know that regulation helped in that case.... :mad:

I find that farrier work attracts people who tend to fly by the seat of their pants--they tend to not much in the way of business sense. I think that's what accounts for the unreturned phone calls (of which I have made many over the years), the farrier not showing up and no phone call, etc.....

I really wish there was some place where you could report poor farrier work and if enough people complained a person's license could be yanked, or the rotten farrier has to compensate a client for a poor job (since another farrier generally has to be called to fix the screw-up)--but then they'd probably just go out and practice without license, much like people whose driving licenses have been pulled yet they still drive.... :uhoh: :( Ugh....

[criss]

I'm a little shocked at all the recommendations to just weasel out of it! Think of it this way: a farrier must have a certain number of clients to make ends meet, but not too many or the schedule will be impossible to keep. So you are part of that balance for your farrier, and if you don't tell him or her ahead of time that you will not be rescheduling, how is the farrier to keep both finances and schedule balanced?

Is five minutes of discomfort on your part really worth interfering, even in a small way, with someone else's ability to make a living?

Get over it. Tell him, by letter or phone or in person, whatever you think will be best, that you really like and appreciate him, but that the horses seem to be having some soundness issues, so you are going to try a different farrier.

You'll feel so much better about yourself afterwards.

[thumbsontop]

I'm thinking that even if you have made your decision to move on you at least owe this guy an explanation. And if you haven't complained to him about your horse being lame afterwards that blame would fall on you. Be honest, if for no other reason than to keep it from happening to others.

As for the vet & trainer, I personally wouldn't accept that opinion as easily as I would another farrier's. I've had a well-respected vet tell me a shoe was too small, and when I asked the well-respected farrier about that comment he told me the vet was nuts, and after further looking into it I found he was correct. Similar to having trainers recommending saddles - good intentions, not enough specific knowledge.

It could be that he was trying to correct something that perhaps he should have done more gradually.

Give him a brief explanation but keep it simple if you will be seeing this guy's wife now and then. Be prepared to offer specifics about why the vet/trainer said to move on. Chickening out is something I would very much want to do as well, but we're no longer in the 8th grade.

[Bogie]

How about honesty?

"Sir, I have had x problems and offered X solutions but it doesn't appear that we are able to tackle these problems together. So I'm going to try someone else. I appreciate your work thus far, but horses come first. I'm sure you understand."

done.

The guy needs to know that his inability to grasp suggestions is losing him a client. Perhaps that will clue him in. If not, he's not that great or interested in getting better. It might be just enough for him to start clueing in elsewhere....


Don't waste your integrity on a lie. The fact is, a farrier is hired to do a job. If they fail to do a good job, they lose work. It's very very simple. Don't waste your integrity trying to make someone feel better about piss poor work.

I, too, prefer to go with the truth. You can be nice about it, but I don't think you need to make excuses.

Recently I asked my current farrier (whom I think is terrific) how she thinks an owner should approach a farrier about changes they want in how their horse was shod. A friend of mine had a three way conversation with her vet and farrier about a lameness issue and their was some snittyness involved.

It made me realize that it was better to have this conversation before there was a problem so that I knew the best way to address possible changes with her if I needed them in the future.

[Auventera Two]

Tell him, by letter or phone or in person, whatever you think will be best, that you really like and appreciate him, but that the horses seem to be having some soundness issues, so you are going to try a different farrier.

I have a horse owner who chose me over her farrier, and she wrote him a letter. I didn't see it, but she said it was short and sweet, offered thanks for his years of service, but informed him she would be pursuing a new path for her horse. One paragraph, over and done.

[JHUshoer20]

Of extreme importance is this- find a way to do it by letter or phone or whatever but under no circumstances let him waste a trip out to your place.

If you make the guy waste fuel and a good part of his day that he could be doing something else thereby causing him to lose money in the process you wil PO him big time.

Word will spread amongs other horseshoers like fire in a haybarn over that too so don't anybody ever do that!:no:
George

[hundredacres]

After two instance of problems with lameness with my horses, my vet and trainer are insisting that I find another farrier. I agree with them. I just am such a chicken about this. The farrier that I have been using is a really nice guy and his wife is an aquaintance of mine. I'm not sure how to handle this. I feel that I can't just blow him off or not return his calls when he is due to come again, I just don't know what to say. Even though I am firing him for not doing a good job I just don't know how to put it tactfully. I really don't want to hurt his feelings even though I have been upset about my horses. I just can't keep him but I'm very torn about what to do. Anyone have a suggestion?

I had to do this a couple years ago and I lost sleep over it. My farrier was a super nice guys but a frickin hack that cost me a lot of money and ultimately some serious anguish to my horse/

When I finally got the nerve up, it went like this:

Me:"Hi Farrier. I'm really sorry but since we are not able to manage WIlliams lameness using your services, I won't be making a new appointment because I have found another farrier to work on my horses".
Farrier: "Oh, okay. I'm really sorry to hear it but thanks for letting me know"
Me: "I appreciate your understanding"
Farrier: "Hey, it's just business"
ME: "Right. Again, thanks alot"
Farrier: "No problem. I'll send you a refund for the last job since you weren't satisfied"
Me: [shocked as hell] "That will be appreciated. You have a good day"
Farrier: "You too"


And that was it! I stressed over NOTHING. This guy is SO unprofessional any other time, yet somehow this was the smoothest firing ever!

Also, I asked my new farrier how to do it when I did it and he told me to just tell him the truth and be short and to the point. No beating around the bush or sugar coating. I followed his advice and it worked like a charm.

[kbbarn]

My farrier break-ups:
farrier 1 - I had my gaited gelding 'boarding' at my parents house. Parents would deal with the farrier schedule for all horses. Farrier is certified but for some reason left the horses hooves sort of long. I think a pre-conceived notion about gaited horses having long toes? Told him I want a basic keg shoes for a trail horse. Done. A few months go by, Parents tell me that he has raised his price greatly. At the time, I was in college on a budget so I told him Thanks but your too $$ now.

Farrier 2 - parents found him through a friend. Was into 'Natural' type trim and shoes ( yes, a clear oxymoron). Said he studied with the farrier who worked on Pat Parelli horses - at that time did not know who pat was (now I know better). Anyhow, his trim was to hack off the toe then put shoe on. Feet looked okay, Had him do my now, 2 horses. Done with college, bought house, moved horses to house. Had Farrier #2 come out again. This time, he made my mare bleed. Never seen that before. Then he goes on to preach his religion to me. No joke. At the end of that session, I told him the since he made my horse bleed and tried to preach religion to me, that I was not comfortable with him and did not need his service any more.

Back on the farrier hunt. Found a great farrier, used him for several years but then he started to not show up. Bad for me since I need to schedule time off work to meet farrier. He would appologize and re-schedule quickly. The third stand-up set me off. I then researched Barefoot. I mean I ride in a sand arena or grass polo field. I have easy boots for trail riding so I ask Farrier 3 what he thought of barefoot. He said if the horse can do it, great. He pulled the shoes and rasped their feet one last time for me. I found a Barefoot practitioner ,certified, and have not looked back for the last 3 years. Perfect hooves and the best part is that I know how to trim feet too so if trimmer has to cancel, I can trim until he reschedules. No more show/shoe worries.

[dab]

I've been very fortunate to have some great farriers work on my horses, but I did have a problem with one CJF years ago -- Tried talking with him, but he didn't return my phone calls and didn't address a note I left for him when he came out to shoe -- I sent him a note with my payment thanking him for his services and telling him I would no longer be needing him --

BO did make the situation more uncomfortable than it needed to be -- When I made an appointment with a new farrier I noted it on the barn calendar -- Surprisingly my old farrier, who had been shoeing at our barn on the same morning every week for years, rescheduled to be there when I had the appointment with my new farrier -- Somehow that schedule change wasn't noted on the barn calendar -- Anyway, I thought my new farrier handled the awkward situation well, and more importantly corrected the issue with my mare's hind feet --
I wouldn't change how I handled the situation -- While I wasn't thrilled with the old farrier's lack of professionalism, I do wonder how much the BO had to do with it -- I moved to a new barn soon afterwards --

I really don't see a reason to cite a trainer's/vet's recommendation when firing a farrier -- As the owner, it's my decision, so why drag anyone else's opinion into it? The horse world is a small place, and these professionals may have to work together in the future --

[Cielo Azure]

At the other side of the scale...

Many farriers kind-of drop small clients as they build customers that have LOTS of horses. A farm with 50 horses is a week's worth of work. A week on not having to schedule at least 25 clients, a week on not driving from place to place. A lot of the "no-shows" of farriers are because they hit jack-pot and have a new (BIG) customer. They schedule, their work at the "big barn" takes a lot of time and runs over-time, they don't make the appointment at the small barn (this time). They re-schedule. Then know they can always get more one horse customers but the big barns are hard to connect into. A lot of farriers (the better they are, the more big clients they have), don't like to work with individuals. They like breeding farms, boarding barns and the (holy grail for money), the race track barns.

[Thomas_1]

You can't "fire" someone you don't employ.

If you're dissatisfied then its sensible to give honest feedback and the opportunity to put it right in the first instance.

If you've actually already done that and are dissatisfied with the response or have determined you just don't trust his ability to do a good job anymore just say very politely when he phoned that you've no longer wish to use his services and are going to give someone else a try.

I doubt he'll be shocked

[Kit]

I quite agree with all the keep it short and simple but honest posts. I changed my mind - woman's perogative - I said explain about the problems you are having. But you could elaborate if you have to a little. Why not? Haven't you discussed any of the problems you have been having with him when you have a vet involved? But you have to be up front. Just do it so you're not agonising over it.

[katarine]

I've fired a few and been dumped by a few. Kinda like it was when I was dating.

Fire them politely! When it's about time to schedule the next trip, call him and say 'hey, I appreciate what you've done for Dobbin in the past but I'm going to try someone new for his feet, just wanted to give you a heads up in time to fill our slot on your schedule. thanks again!'

done. It's not that hard. Fired a guy then had a horse pull a shoe. Replacement farrier n/a ...called fired guy, explained situation, asked him to come put shoe on, for whatever he wanted to charge (he lives close by). he came, he did it, for nothing. Woudn't take a dime from me. Now I still don't think he's a very good farrier, but he is a pretty good guy ;)

[artisticgold]

Ohhhh, I just gave my farrier notice today! I've used this guy about 4-5 times, did a great job the first few times (but with me hanging over his shoulder kind of giving him direction on what I saw and what I wanted) The time before last he came with his wife, and all of the horses had low heels and long toes, two new horses were ouchy afterward, but they had seriously messed up/neglected feet beforehand. Ok, maybe he was just in a hurry or had a bad day....

He came back out Monday and did 2 horses and 2 minis. Wellllll, the minis look good. But the two horses, UGHHHHHHHHH! My palomino gelding can't even walk, and his foot is warm, and I'm worried about him foundering. For some reason he took all the dorsal hoof wall off up into the foot, so he has no hoof wall contact on the sides, and he is walking on his sole, and his toes are even really short. The boarder's Appy mare can hardly walk, also. My vet brought out another farrier today to look at them, and he said there really isn't much there to work with and it will take weeks and weeks for it to grow back. (Just when my horse was moving the best ever and I had bought him a new Schleese saddle...of course!)

So, I will soon be taking my horse to Mike Wildenstein at Cornell U for some expensive glue-on shoes. Between the shoes, the cost of travel, tolls, and time away, it will probably cost me over $300 to fix what should have been a simple, straight forward trim.

I think what happened is he went to a farrier's conference a few days ago, and heard all kinds of ideas on trimming, he was talking about mustang trims, scooping the quarters, etc, but his interpretation is far from what the theory of such a trim is. I had one other farrier once that went to school, saw a resectioning on a hoof, and then proceeded to do it on quite a few of his client's horses. They just get carried away, or try to fix what isn't broke. sigh...

So, I called him up today, told him I had a very serious problem. That my gelding was so sore he can't even walk, his foot is warm, and I had to stand him in a cold puddle for 20 minutes to try to take heat out. My vet was even concerned about founder, and put him on bute. He said he could come out the day after tomorrow to see what he could do. I said that wouldn't be an option, as there is nothing left to nail a shoe to, and I would have to take the horse to Cornell for glue-ons. Then I said, "And I expect that you won't be cashing the check I gave you, as this is going to be a very expensive fix, hundreds of dollars and my poor horse is suffering as a result. You just took way too much off".

He said fine, he wouldn't cash the check, he was very sorry, he didn't know how he had taken so much off, and he apologized. Do you think he knows that I won't be using him again?

I've decided I will be taking my horses to Cornell only, and in between trims I can rasp the feet and keep them in balance myself. I've actually educated myself, and become skilled with a rasp (out of desperation), and my feet, when done, look better, are more balanced, and my horses are never lame/sore after I work on them. Actually they move great, but I go slow, am conservative, and may pick a foot up and put it down 20-30 times before I am happy with my work. It's tough as I have serious back/neck injuries, but I guess I will just have to do it anyway. I've had numerous horses seriously screwed up by farriers over the course of 20 years. I totally believe that the English apprenticeship/certification for farriers is the way to go. It is downright scarey how bad some of these 'farriers' in the U.S. are....

[sid]

I haven't read all the posts, but...

I can't understand for the life of me why one would be shy of termination someone who has not done their job properly...or worse, damaged a horse.

Business is business, no matter how much you might like the individual personally.

[Lookout]

Right. It's his fault that you don't have an adequate workspace for him. Yes, he should be able to see what he's doing in the dark without any light. Yes, he should be able to work in the rain on wet feet with wet tools. Or I guess he is supposed to bring portable lamps and a tent. And a dry clean surface for them to step on so the foot isn't all dirty each time the horse puts his foot down. Is he also supposed to have xray vision and leap tall buildings at a single bound while wearing his cape with SF emblazoned on it?

Good for you for finding a farrier that can work blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back.


We've never had to fire our farrier, but the last one sort of fired us. He was here putting shoes on our horses for the mountains, and because it was raining he wanted to do them in the garage (we don't have a barn). Well, I said to face our gelding's head towards the garage door so he would be happier as they are never ever trimmed in the garage... But no, the farrier said he needed all the light he could get... So they had him up against the side of the garage, with his feet at an awkward angle, hammering a shoe on (and we know he's a tad fussy with his hinds)... I'm watching this (my dad was holding the gelding as he is his horse), and even said that they shouldn't be doing it... When about 30 seconds later the gelding starts fussing and ends up flying backwards out of the garage, and flipping and breaking the farrier's box (the one they have all their rasps, nippers, etc. in). I don't think he was too pleased about it - but it's his own fault really.

He finished off our horses, but didn't return my mom's phone calls for the next trim. We took the hint, and have a new farrier who is wonderful with the horses and their feet look way better with him than they ever did with the last one.

[ddashaq]

I agree with others that say to be honest. I switched from a trimmer to a farrier last fall because my horse was becoming head bobbing lame in front. I spoke to the trimmer about it several times because Shaq's front heels were very low (coronary band was nearly weight bearing), and he was tripping constantly. I gave him a couple of cycles to fix the issues I was seeing, but when Shaq tripped so badly at a walk that he very nearly went down, I had had enough. I had the vet out to make sure that there was actually a problem and it wasn't just me, and her advice was to get a new farrier ASAP. I just let the trimmer know that I was having continuing lameness issues and was going to persue some corrective shoeing options with a different farrier. Within a shoeing cycle my horse was sound (up front) and in January we pulled his shoes and I have had no problems!

[sid]

Lookout..as I said. I didn't read all the posts. There is no excuse for a horse owner to not give a professional (whether it be farrier, veterinarian or trainer) the proper environment within to perform.

It's common sense and a good practice to judge those who provide their services according to the working environment that has been provided by the owner...as well as the tractabilily of the animal they are working on.

[Appassionato]

As a farrier, I would want to know the reason for the lameness, and would be proactive in helping find a solution.
As for being fired, it happens. A simple call saying you are using someone else is all I'd ask for.
How ironic that most owners on this thread recommend to the OP that they take the chicken way out and avoid telling the truth, and would just as soon jerk the farrier around by not returning calls or rescheduling time after time.
BUT, heaven forbid a farrier pulls the same stunt, then we are labeled unprofession, heartless hacks.

The part I put in bold, I'd personally like to stress this point: how about finding an expert farrier to help both of you out? Education for your farrier, and help for your horse? I tried this before, and with some farriers it works (because they care about their profession and want every opportunity to be educated) and some didn't go for the idea (they were also fired). My trimmer (Bo's hinds) lept at the chance to talk to a lameness expert (she hauls me for Bo's fronts)and gets free advice every time she goes. All she spends is her time.

Just a thought since you've mentioned the couple are really nice folks. They might appreciate the helping hand. Either way it comes out of your pocket for someone else to handle your horse's problems.

[feetfirst]

Appasionato, I totally agree. I have no problem admitting when I'm over my head, and you can only get better if you are willing to admit that. Just today I consulted with a client's massage therapist on opting to go barefoot. I sought out her advice and thanked her for her imput.

[Ride'emCO]

Thank him for his work on your horses, but inform him you'll be using someone else in the future on your trainer's recommendation. Keep it polite and professional, and just tell the truth, but there's no need to get into specifics unless he asks IMO.

I completely agree with this. If I thought a phone conversation was going to turn into the 3rd degree, I would put it in a letter and mail it to him with a gift card to a nice local restaurant.

[Appassionato]

Appasionato, I totally agree. I have no problem admitting when I'm over my head, and you can only get better if you are willing to admit that. Just today I consulted with a client's massage therapist on opting to go barefoot. I sought out her advice and thanked her for her imput.

Absolutely understood. You never know what someone else might bring to the table. Shoot, Jaye's vet (Bo's founder vet) saw something going on with Bo's hinds in Dec. I mentioned Bo's hocks, but he felt it was more than that. We x-rayed from the hoof up...and found serious problems in the left hock (one hock is fused and the other was trying to fuse)! Is the vet a bad vet? NO! My horse doesn't always present what's wrong with him very well. He just says he feels badly and leaves you guessing. :lol: In any case, the vet was a little shocked at the result of the hocks being a problem but there we were staring at some pretty ugly x-rays. :winkgrin:

My trimmer has no credentials other than her work. Of which Jaye commented on the last time I was up there. He said that Bo's hinds looked really good. My trimmer explained what she did and what she couldn't do due to Bo's problems. Jaye knows, he's fought Bo's hind's before. ;)

FWIW, Jaye has mentioned often (once on horseshoes WITH Bo's hock x-rays) that additional traction isn't always best...

[chocosrevenge]

Appasionato, I totally agree. I have no problem admitting when I'm over my head, and you can only get better if you are willing to admit that. Just today I consulted with a client's massage therapist on opting to go barefoot. I sought out her advice and thanked her for her imput.


I'm curious to know why a massage therapist is consulting with you about making changes to a horses feet?

[Appassionato]

I'm curious to know why a massage therapist is consulting with you about making changes to a horses feet?

While I haven't met but two vets familiar with massage that I would listen to (others that I would listen to haven't mentioned it), why not listen to what they have to say? If it sounds plausible, it should be able to be reproduced (with the therapist there). If not, then it's bunk. Sometimes, you can tell it's bunk before asking the rider/owner to tack up. :winkgrin:

[ChristineC]

Right. It's his fault that you don't have an adequate workspace for him. Yes, he should be able to see what he's doing in the dark without any light. Yes, he should be able to work in the rain on wet feet with wet tools. Or I guess he is supposed to bring portable lamps and a tent. And a dry clean surface for them to step on so the foot isn't all dirty each time the horse puts his foot down. Is he also supposed to have xray vision and leap tall buildings at a single bound while wearing his cape with SF emblazoned on it?

Good for you for finding a farrier that can work blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back.

Thank you for that rather harsh assessment of our property and horses. While I agree that he should be working in proper conditions not everyone has access to a barn. He had been out to our place prior and knew that we did not have a barn for which he could work in, that we do not nor have ever trimmed the horses in the garage (and he could have had us position the gelding in a more proper position for both light and the horse's comfort), and it had been raining lightly off and on all day - he could have called and cancelled the appointment and made arrangements for another day.

I feel it was just a combination of factors that led to his box getting broken, none of which were unreasonable on his part or our part... Just unfortunate. And we are both probably happier now that he is not doing our horses, and all I will say (again) is that we are pleased with our current farrier. His blindfolded and one-handed trimmed skills have not been tested as of yet but I'm sure will be sufficient when the need arises.